 The next session is on doing business in the open. So let me first present our session leader, Gael Blondel, from the now European Eclipse Foundation. Gael, take it away. Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Astor. So yeah, well, it's such pleasure to read this panel about doing business in the open. And yes, as you just said, we recently announced that the creation of Eclipse Foundation AISDL was finally established in Operation Universal. And that's a major step in our move to Europe, where we want to do business in the open globally, but from a strong European perspective. So thanks for inviting me to this session. And let me introduce my four speakers today. So Birgit Boss has a long history as a software engineer at Robert Bush. And currently, she's responsible for the IP standardization and open source strategy at Bush Connected Industry. She has been involved in the national and international standardization of industrial IoT systems since 2017. And she's on the board of the newly funded Industrial Digital Queen Association and chair of the semantic data structuring working group of the open manufacturing platform. Hi Birgit. Katarina Marrake is an attorney at Law and Strategic Advisor at Ambition, a subsidiary of Daimler of AG. And she is also a project professor at Kaio University in Japan, where she focuses on IP law and policy and standardization efforts for public licensing schemes. She served as the director of creative comments and other responsibilities. Hi Katarina. Hi, thanks for having me. Todd Moore is an IBM VP of Open Technology at IBM, where he leads a global IBM team developing open source technologies and working in open communities. And he currently serves as the chairperson of both Open GS Foundation Board of Directors and the CNCF Governing Board. And the quote is that if you consume open source code, you need to give back to the community just as much and more. And I love it. Hi, Todd. Thank you, thank you. And finally, Gerard Pfeiffer has been engaging in open source before that term was even coined. And he joins initially in the engineering side and then led the product organization for over 10 years, transforming the business from a Linux pioneer towards a broader open source infrastructure player. And Gerard currently serves as the CTO based in EMEA and the chair of the board of open source. Hi, Gerard. Hey. So let's start with a few short introduction with what I have observed over my own experience with open source. I would say that over the years, open source has emerged as one of the best way for collaborating with software. So we can mention the Linux, of course, Apache, Eclipse, Kubernetes, et cetera. I think, and I guess that some of you will come back on that later, that that's because of clear and well understood IP sharing models and that enables sharing and also developing a larger community of interest. That's easy to set up and that's an important point. Working in open source is more easy than creating joint ventures. So when we talk about doing business in the open, that's also about creating collaborations in open source. And I think that was mentioned in the previous panel that this complies with the antitrust regulations as well, the results are available to everybody. And so it's easier to comply with those competition regulations. And I myself started to work in the world of open source in 2004. And I think that at that time, open source was still a commoditization approach. But I also observed that in the last 10 years, we have seen that new technologies emerge directly in open source, like big data, cloud native computing, IoT, AI, et cetera. And of course, that's because of some requirements for scalability. But also certainly fostering adoption is certainly also a very important point. And with open source, after software creating the world, open source is clearly eating software. And with topics like industrial IoT that we will address with AI, with cloud, I think that open source is also moving from the traditional software companies to the more classical industry players. And that's really interesting today that we have SUSE, we have IBM, but we also have Bosch and Daimler. So I think that we have this clear separation of the two worlds. And we will see that we have good connections between them. So let's start with you, Gerard. SUSE has been a pure open source company for a very long time, so since 1992. And you have always been an open source and free software as really in the DNA of the company. And so tell me more about your perspective about doing business in the open. Yeah, I think Maria on the previous panel, she asked a very good question, what does it mean to be open? And in my experience, open source isn't actually sufficient. You can have open source software and that came up in the chat even and lock in your customers. Or you can put an open source license on a project, publish it somewhere and have no community. So what you're looking at is, if you want to be successful in open source and in a bigger context is actually the 360 degree focus on openness. How do we contact business commercially? How do we engage with partners and customers? How do we engage with open source communities? How do we engage even with entities like the European Union? And it's the openness of data, the openness of code, the openness of idea, patents being a critical issue and not so easy one all the time. That's really key. And what I found is there isn't actually one mode if I look at the overly simplifying vendor customer relationship, there isn't just one mode. There is really also an open source. There's still the classic mode of I'm a vendor, I deliver services software to you and you consume and you don't necessarily care whether it's open source or not. If you deploy a new SAP system, there is today most likely there is SUSE running, you may not even be aware and that's okay. But that's not necessarily on that front, the strengths of open source, where open source shines in that context is how do you actually develop that software? Is it with the hardware partner? Is it then with the software partner so that the overall solution becomes stronger? Where open source becomes more interesting is when you see more of the transparency that openness in what I would call the second mode or modality is where the customer is actually more engaged, is interested in participating in open source. And so for what I really enjoy is when there are conferences and I hope we'll have real conferences at one point again, but when there are conferences and you see a developer and an engineer or consumer at the customer present on the stage. So this is a Kubernetes solution and these are my requirements and this is what we did on the Kubernetes side to improve. And that's something that open source really enables. And there's even a third mode then in some cases where the customer actually engages in an open source project because they're the expert in Cetelco. And so they have very specific requirements and on those specific pieces, they engage directly, they consume the rest of the solution from vendors because that's not their expertise, but they want to engage. And so what open source and open business allows is having these dynamic relationships where it's not just you talk to me, I talk to them but you can invite others, you can invite and create communities temporarily or permanently. Thanks. We have some echoes in there. Anyway, Katharina, please tell us about the point of view of the industry. You are an advisor at Ambition. So tell me what Ambition is doing and how do you embrace the world of open source at Ambition? Yeah, so Ambition is a full subsidiary of Daimler or to be very precise of the Mercedes-Benz AG. And I think there are many different reasons why you wanna set up a separate entity to start in-house software development. But one very important aspect of this is of course that you have in a new separate entity, you have the opportunity to implement a new way of working a different culture, et cetera. And I think we all know that Daimler is a very traditional company in the German context and in the international context. So I think coming from a new separate entity we could implement some of these new ways of working at a different culture. I'm hesitating to mention the term agile but of course that plays a big role. So software development is different from the traditional how do you manufacture a car, right? In the hardware world, how do you make sure that the car ends up on the street? So I think Ambition really is Daimler's flagship so to speak to start in-house software development. And we can already see that because step by step we closely collaborate with colleagues in Stuttgart and Sindelfingen so maybe I should say that Ambition is based in Berlin. We try to implement this new way of working, of thinking the new culture and so on and so forth. I think this is really the core piece of the whole storyline around Ambition to try to bring software development into Daimler. And of course, I mean, this panel is about open source so we're not only talking about software development, that plays of course a huge role, right? So open source is something new, I think in the automotive industry still somewhat new and there needs to be more education, more discussion, more explanation about the benefits, how we collaborate. I think this has been discussed in this conference already extensively. What does it exactly mean, right? Collaboration in the open. And through Ambition, Daimler is approaching this and trying to bring this into the more traditional yeah, structure of the company. Thanks. Okay, so, Todd, IBM is another software actor that has invested a lot in open source for ever or so and in all domains. And of course, we all know that this commitment to open source is now even stronger with the acquisition of Red Hat. But in your different roles, can you tell us few things about how you see companies small and large succeeding in open source and what it takes? Yeah, thank you. I've had a front row seat to the open source progress here at IBM. I had a product that I needed to find a way of meeting a price point. And I couldn't solve that problem with the license I had to pay for UNIX and started seeking out Linus Torvald and eventually getting going with Linux. And it was the interest that we had already going in open source that allowed us to look at that objectively and say, look, if we invested in it, if we put a billion dollars behind it, which IBM committed. And if we decided not to assert our patents against it, actually pledged not to assert our patents, we could offer it quite a bit of protection and then have essentially enterprises be able to put their trust in something that they normally wouldn't know. That progressed, the Apache Software Foundation came about, the HTTP server which revolutionized what we were standardizing for the web, then Java and Eclipse. And of course, the formation of Eclipse with that, the original IBM code donation in there and the work that went on there. And to see that grow and become something substantial with all sorts of different projects now within it. And now with yourselves moving to be headquartered in the EU and Brussels is a sign of the times and of how the world has changed and how having positions across the world are now very important to how we go about looking at foundations and where software is done. Because I think it's the confidence in the software that's most important to both enterprises, small and large. It's that ability to look and see that there's a piece of code that if they're dependent on it, it's being openly governed, right? And that open governance creates then the level playing field, the platform by which people can then be engaged and feel comfortable that the rug won't be pulled out from underneath them at some point in the future. And then it's the participation of those companies and you're seeing it now. And Gerald talked about having customers actually get up on stage and talk about what they're doing with this offer but they're also contributing to it. They're also, they're commenting it on it in the most successful organizations that I'm part of now. And that's really been the real shift is the engagement, the contribution on the part of end users, the contribution on the part of companies. Most software out there these days that's being done in the open has a very strong contingent of people coming from enterprises or companies, right? But it's not just enough to put the code out under an open license and put it on GitHub to make people feel comfortable. What I've seen in terms of making things successful as projects is that eventually there's this friction that builds between the community and the project being maintained by a single vendor. And there's a choice to be made whether to do something different in your business model or whether to actively take that project out into open governance in a foundation. So foundations like the SIP Foundation serve the basis of that the Linux Foundation others around the world because it gives that opportunity to have that project be very, very successful and be essentially a de facto standard I think. And then you get to the point where you can get to the standardization process because early on it's very difficult as things evolve very quickly in an open source project to see your way to standardization. Maybe pieces of it can be pulled from standards and other things, but it's really very, very hard to do that. And the community members are often very resistant to that as well too. So I think that that ability to do things do things very quickly really drives both the innovation and the success of the projects as they go through time. We've learned that very honestly I do quite a bit of advising to companies who are looking to start up their own open source project offices because IBM has been at this probably longer than anybody else and we have a wealth of history. And I've seen small companies and large companies and they all wrestle with essentially some of the same things. First, how do I consume the code and know that I'm consuming something that is of high quality that I can depend on? How do I go and then start to contribute into these projects without losing my intellectual property? And there you really need to carefully look at the licensing that you're working with and how your people are gonna participate. And then I think the, you know, lastly, then how do I build this virtuous cycle within my company so that this is part of my product that I view the code that I'm using in there as my real product code. I'm doing upstream development in it. And as a result of that, I have a basis that I can be very confident. No matter what happens out there, I can jump in and have my engineers go and be part of that code process and be able to make the fixes and changes and things I need. So they all sort of go through that process. It takes them varying amounts of time. And eventually they learn to become really good community members because it's not just putting code out there on GitHub. It really isn't. It's a set of soft skills and a set of community building skills that are so essential to making things successful out there. Yeah, nothing bad about the GitHub, but that's not enough. No, GitHub, great stuff, GitLab, great stuff. It's not enough. You gotta have the soft skills to help you get over that process of working with others, you know, playing nice in the sandbox together. Couldn't agree more. Birgit, about open source and standardization. So you are in this very specific domain of industry, 4.0 that is software entering in the traditional industry and even to some extent in the factory. And so that's typically you saw in the chat before that potentially is that we had this side conversation about some standardization body. And I'm very much interested in what you can tell us about what you do in OMP and IDTA, about the articulation between open source and standardization. Yeah, so for me, so 2020 was an important year for all of us. It will stay in our minds, but also from a business point of view, from open source and industrial IoT, 2020 is also really extremely interesting because I will tell you there were a lot of organizations founded in 2020 all about industrial IoT and open source. So I think in general, the awareness of the importance of open source is increasing dramatically also in this area, in industrial IoT. And I think this domain is really a little bit different like I just said, than the IoT domain. So these are completely different players in the moment. And I think this awareness increased not only for the big players, but also for smaller companies in industry. Oh, you already mentioned it. The industry, I'm focusing mainly on the digital twin aspect because digital twin we think in platform industry 4.0 and in industrial IoT is a very, very important enabler for data-driven business and for interoperability. For the main thing is cross company interoperability. So it's about standards and open source. And the industrial digital twin association was founded just in September, so it's extremely new. And I would really say that without some effort from some colleagues who did open source to promote our specification. So we did first the specification, but of course it was a little bit difficult to make a roll out and to get the acceptance of the specification because we had nothing to show it in a way that a domain expert can understand it. So a machine builder should understand what we are doing in the IoT. And this helped really much to promote our specification and it did it in an unforeseen way. So it was really enabling companies or on one fair, I think we did a demonstrator and 10 to 15 or 20 different companies all joined. One is the same demonstrator just using this simple open source softwares to enable to use the standard and show that interoperability is possible. So this is, I would say, the reason why our specification was successful. And that's why also the industrial digital twin association was founded. It's not an open source project, but of course open source is one of the very big pillars from the very beginning because we saw we needed and it will help us drive and fasten all the industry 4.0 applications. And yeah. And okay, the other one, other initiative was already mentioned. It's Gaia X, of course. The twins will also be their topics. That's why I'm also mentioning it. And it's very interesting and it's a very important initiative. And again, also this one is not an open source project, but it has open source from the very beginning as one of its pillars. And I think that's a change of mind in doing such business. So another foundation was founded in, it's a consortium. It's a digital twin consortium in US. It was founded in the middle of 2020. So it seems somehow in 2020 it was mature to be done. But they also were also not an open source organization, but they also want to provide open source solution to show how to do digital twins somehow. But they are not doing standards or no specifications. So for them, it's not the main thing to do interoperability, enable interoperability. So I would say for them, it's just showcases whereas for IDTA and other industrial digital twin association, Gaia X, it's about interoperability. That's why it's really the combination of standard and not only open source or only standard. So that's the combination. And finally, also the open manufacturing platform, Gaia mentioned it, is another big player in the world of industrial IOT. It was already founded in 2019 by Microsoft and BMW, but Bosch, ZF and AB INVEF just joined at the beginning of 2020. And in a way, that was a real kickoff. And that's the only one, the only project that really is an open source project. So they saw the gap that was missing in industry 4.0 or in an industrial IOT in general, also in US. Yeah, that we need something more practical that we need something to show and to make it faster also, I would say. And the open manufacturing platform is under the umbrella of the Joint Development Foundation and the Joint Development Foundation Joint, the Linux Foundation in 2018. So this is also quite new all. And this also shows that because Joint Development Foundation is focusing on specific open specifications, Linux on open code development. So again, we have both parts and they are coming closer together, so standardization and open source. So they go well together, I would say. And so to summarize, I would say 2020 was the year for starting all of these initiatives. And now, okay, in 2021. Yeah, we should have a look at them, what is happening. And because really for IOT, there is not yet a leading community. It's just starting, it's not IOT. Now that all the organizations are created, that's the right time for execution. Okay. Katarina, a third is answer, covered something that is interesting, which is first you need to be able to consume software. And you created the Software Compliance Academy. So maybe you tell us a few words about it and what, where it can help companies and it's the beginning of this running curve. Sure, yeah, thank you. I think today, even still in the corporate world, the first approach to open source or the first contact with open source still quite often is through compliance, right? So it's not necessarily being admonished or something bad happening, but realizing that you do have open source in your products and the licensing model is somewhat different. So I think many companies really talk about the corporate world, many, you know, legal departments or even developers in the corporate world, at some point realize that, you know, they need to somehow learn how to handle this and how to, you know, understand the licenses and what that really means for the product. And I think this is a need that we saw happening five, six years ago that quite often companies don't really want to have legal advice being charged by the hour, but they want, you know, some support in the terms of, you know, what do we actually have to do? What does this mean? What do we need to change? And I really liked also what Todd said before, because I think open source is not only about the licensing model, it's not only about putting something up in GitHub, it's about the corporate culture, right? So what we are trying to, you know, work with clients or help companies is to understand what does this mean to make this shift from, you know, a traditional software company to an open source company. And it's really far beyond just understanding the licensing model, it's about setting up a different way of working that means, you know, certain processes, understanding how the collaboration model works, identifying with whom you want to collaborate and so on and so forth. So I think it's a big package that, you know, traditional companies have to unlock when they start working with open source, but the entry point and that, to come back to your question, in our experience quite often is through compliance, right? So the question, what do we need to do? We need to somehow deliver the source code maybe, or, you know, other obligations, helpful other obligations in the licenses. And then step by step, companies realize what this really means and what the opportunities are, right? Because they're huge opportunities. And that's when we are successful if companies are, you know, working in the open source world from successfully and not only putting stuff on GitHub and claiming that they are now an open source company. Yeah, sure. Yes, well, ASTOR asked me to go as fast as we can. So we still need more minutes, ASTOR. Take it easy. Gerard, one thing, and I see also in the chat that there's some discussion about skills and you have been doing all your career in open source. So what is your perspective about this and about skill gaps and training or this kind of stuff? You want it? Not anymore? Yes, good. We need more developers, designers, architects with skills. So one part of our skills is we need more education. And when I say education, we have very good technical universities, colleges here in Europe. What I'm sometimes missing is the softer side. So soft skills, how do you build communities, communications, how do you engage in communities? A little connected to what Todd referred to. And I think we can become better or we should become better at selling actually the diversity of open source for individuals, for employees. Because open source is an employee market if you look at it. Your skills that you develop are very portable. You can move from one open source vendor. If I got the job offer, if Todd extended me a job offer, I probably could move and work in open source projects and with the same technologies I'm aware of with a very small barrier of entrance. And also GitHub has been mentioned in those other tools. You actually, as a developer, keep promoting yourself all the time. Every single commit that you're paid for by your employer goes directly on your resume that your GitHub profile is. And so as an employee, I think, as an engineer, designer, et cetera, open source, number one, it's a lot of fun. I think you'll probably appreciate the openness, the collaborations with more partners, the engagement with customers, which can be more direct. But also you have lots of opportunities to move across the continents. In the past, I would have told you, you can work from home because many organizations in the open source arena are more skilled, have been historically skilled to do remote work and distributed work. In this day and age of the virus, that may be not that much of a differentiator anymore, but let's see two years from now. So I think working in open source is actually, apart from being very rewarding, exciting, is actually from a career perspective, a very positive thing. Thanks, girl. Yeah, so I think that I see a store where it looks like it's time to conclude and we will be able to say that the business people have saved the time that was over time from the policy people. So just as a conclusion, I think that we have several aspects. I like the idea of companies first start to consume open source code and so they need compliance and they realize they should contribute. That's an opportunity for collaboration and at some point that becomes more strategic and more of a collaboration platform for them. The second one I would say is that open source and standardization go well together, especially when you need to have some interoperability. I like to say that open source is standard that front. So you get the extra soul of the standard with the actual software. And one thing I think that in the presentation of the studies, there was a lot about the fact that the small companies, we have lots of small companies in Europe and I realize that in our panel, we have only large companies represented, I would say. But in my perspective, from my experience, I would say that there is one important aspect in open source, which is this network effect. And this network effect is a huge opportunity for all organizations, whether they are small or large. And yes, to conclude my conclusion, I will, that's free, but yes, publish code, publish code on GitHub, if you think that's the best platform and if you, if as a developer, that's the place to have your CV. But from publishing code on a platform to doing business in the open, there is governance, intellectual property management, community development. That's a lot of things that must be also addressed. Thanks everybody for your participation. And we are just a bit shorter. I think that you all gave us good insights and... Thank you very much, everyone. Have a good day. So thank you. Thank you. Bye-bye.