 All sorts of places I coached for Bobby Charlton sports first of all, and that was a great experience I just started doing some courses for him and met him and I've worked for him over two or three years here in the UK and In Saudi Arabia as well. So they were just the normal sort of soccer courses to soccer camps that sort of thing, you know This was a long time ago I had the great fortune of he'd retired from professional football then at this Sports company and I had the great fortune of playing a couple of games with him as well Which was was terrific experience here in the UK and in Saudi as well So that was great. And I did some work for Manchester City On their community program and it started an FA skills program and then on from there Really just trying to get any coaching experience anywhere that I could Played in non-league. So coached in a league and then I got to managing in non-league various clubs and finishing at Charlton town Well, it's obviously full-time and I managed the FA 11 as well. So I really enjoyed still the non-league Setting, you know, I'm going to a non-league game tonight. Actually much better time must be crazy And then the last 15 years has been in recruitment. You know as a scout Nearly 12 of those years up to November just gone. I've been with Chelsea in the academy there where I was head of integration recruitment so sort of senior team leading roles in The recruitment team in the academy and what's probably One of the best academies in the world, certainly if not the best great experience and lots of great people and Really enjoyed it a lot. So that's why I've really I've got to understand academy scouting And recruitment came out there in November started the business and away we go Perfect, we will get into the scouting and your your business in a second But I want to ask you because at the moment obviously Saudi Arabia is is very popular So what was that like coaching out there? First of all, physically it was difficult It's very hot. Yeah We would do coaching sessions at six o'clock at night and it's still very hot And I struggled at first to deal with that, but then I was given a tip, which is very old-fashioned tip I don't think you do it now to take salt tablets Right, which you could just buy from boots or any chemist in the nose days And as soon as I started taking them I felt better and it was okay, you know It just helps you rehydrate and build up sort of your inner system and That was an interesting challenge when I was there one of the big clubs there asked Bob if he would recommend someone to be Head of director of football development in the club to particularly to develop a youth system And he recommended he asked me if I would be interested in I Sort of mixed feelings about I've got a big family although a lot younger than what so many of them But the money was was gonna be great And so I was up for it if the conditions were right But then it was all part of a big deal with Bobby Charles sports being doing loaded marketing for them and all that fell through So my job fell through as well. So I would have stayed there longer I suppose if the right thing had come together, but the game was Not what it is now clearly the facilities were good. They'd had a lot of Brazilian coaches prior to me going over and They wanted I think a bit more of the British more direct football, which was the boat at the time So I could coach that so that would have been a really interesting Challenge But one reason I didn't come off, but I've always enjoyed traveling I've been fortunate enough to travel all over the world coaching and working in in football and in sport But Saudi was an interesting place to go So tell us a little bit about your your business then Okay, so when Last summer I'm writing a book on scouting called the scouting game Which will be out in towards the end of the year so the publishers said that Suggested aside trying to promote or build the brand, you know inside doing some videos my wife came up with a format We just started last summer doing videos on Instagram and what have you really just to raise the profile of the book But the responses we got for it were terrific, you know, we were getting 50 odd thousand views for Videos from nothing, you know and a lot of Questions from parents particularly how do I know if my kid is any good? How can my kid get scouted? What will scouts look for? Well, how can they get into Academy football? There seemed to be a real Dirt of feedback for parents from an independent knowledgeable sort of perspective So we clearly thought well, there's a business here doing this Let's give it a try and so we launched it and the idea is that we will assess players independently From seven upwards up to senior ages And we base it on getting videos and I can go through the process in a bit But that concept of would people be interested in paying for an Independent player assessment was that the heart of what we did. No one else is doing it Anywhere that we've come across and certainly no one with 30 years in the game like me and who knows the highest standards So came hopefully place The standard any player they're assessing in the right way and I identified particularly what they need to work on and how they Can go forward and it's just boomed. We're assessing players from all over the world a lot of American players a lot from Sort of random country I did one Which I did the presentation this morning actually over a lad in Kazakhstan and under 19 player who's very good actually The land from Cyprus last week Ireland Australia and Quite a few in the UK. So that's really taken us a bit by surprise And we've had to sell much more of a structure to deal with that So I do hope to go back into Academy recruitment somewhere because that's What I still feel is my sort of a home ground really in that way So we're having to adjust the business as we go along nice So what's the name of of your business the scouting game? So everything is called scouting game the books called scouting game and the business is called scouting game and all of our Social media can be track tracks from our YouTube channel through to Insta and what have you on the scouting game? And so and that's why On the badge as well. So we've got the logo as well. So everything is through the scouting game Which is copyrighted trademark. I might add Fantastic. So any coach watching the scouting it was the website It's the scouting game code UK And that's up there with the information about us, but Instagram is probably our prime Sort of Channel really for communication So we're putting videos up every other day up there through our social media team Which we now have and they're going really well. So we have all sorts of things on on there Guides to how to get into scouting do webinars as well We did the first one month. So I go about how to get into scouting. We've got another one next week a parents guide to Academy football So we're trying to respond to the market really because we're creating a market as it's a completely new Concept of a business as well as trying to meet a market 100% love that. So what tell us Chris a bit about the process when you work with with players or parents So how do you on board them? What's the general process? All our advertising is through social media. Everything is driven through social media So we put the videos up. That's how we started. That's how people began to contact us And so we stick with doing that. So we go through Instagram TikTok LinkedIn Facebook and Then we collect them together on a YouTube channel the answer is the main driver for us and so We have a social media agent who advises us and we have now a team that help put them together So my wife and I might record a basic video or I might but then it's over to them and they put it up there straight away So that attracts attention people contact us and say yeah, how can I get assessed or how can my child get assessed? We get them to send us two full match videos Not clips because we need to see through a match video what player doesn't do as well as what they do do Two full match videos because one game someone can have a great game or poor game. You need a bit of their objectivity We then go through them whoever is doing the scouting assessment and our analysts performance analysts as well We use software to help us analyze it more time efficiently through in play sports, which is very good and Then we prepare an assessment of the player, which is an 11 page assessment We really sort of take their game apart technical physical psychological tactical elements of their game and Identify strengths and weaknesses which we illustrate with the video clipping that for the videos that have come in and then we crucially point to How What does need working on how they can work on it and what their next steps might be? directing them to wherever that might be one to one coaching or Strength and conditioning whatever it might be and and then we present that back, which is mostly me presenting back via zoom And it takes about 45 minutes to an hour to present that back and then we send all that to the to the customer so That's that's our format and our process and We try and make sure that it's very practical as I say with real practical steps of what they can do next and come out of it And a number of people who've had the assessments done say what we want to come back in three months now another one So to see how they the player has improved If they take it on board what we said so that's great because we've been beginning to identify repeat business and Obviously advertising as well through podcasts such as this one. We should do quite a few of us. It's a new concept So that's that's how our business works really so it's a mix of My wife and I have set it up. It's her idea and she runs the business end of it I just talk about football and do the analysis and present back and then we have the performance analysts and The social media help and so a little team has emerged and if I go back to football time football Obviously, we've got a firm ice to manage the business without me having to do so much. Yeah so Quick question here and we get we work with some coaches that And very similar to what you do with your wife, right? The coach will coach and then the wife kind of does the admin stuff How how has that been because well talk us through how what makes a really good? Partnership in that sense when you're working with your with your wife or your husband, what would you do that to work? I think you have to have different things you bring to the table. That's the thing My wife is very Entrepreneurial she comes with a sport background. She was a gymnast gymnastics coach and has a gymnastics business So she has she runs the business now And so that business side of it how to organize the customer service side of it and so on and Then leading into even the finances and business structure in that way She brings out to the table. My end is the football expertise end, you know Yeah, so we try and keep to our respective areas But basically I found the the best way forward is just do what I'm told She's much brighter than I am when it comes to the business side way even the way we structure the videos Which is a very sort of informal Normal videos General kind of videos is a very informal way of doing it that she came up with That when the social media agent gone to us she said look we love this very Amateurish very at home very simple Julie just comes in to my office and asked me a question And then I talk and she usually takes the mickey out on me one way or another as well So that's all very normal But that was her idea to structure it that way and that's worked really well and so You know, I look after the football end And she looks after the business end and so we both got our spheres of influence. I think And then my son is one of the analysts Daughter is one of the social media people. So it's quite a family involvement. So everyone has their say And that's good because we're bringing different different expertise is my son for example as a degree in sports performance analysis from Cardiff met So, you know, he's doing on that side and sort of the software out with Chris Gill in play And we're getting together good people around us and and that works So it's a proper family run business. Yeah, it is. Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, I was at a game last week Not only game in my youngest son who does some scouting as well some opposition scouting But not lead team locally and he was saying look, what am I going to get some work? This as well, you know, so there might be someone else in the family coming into the folder soon as well Especially as I've got to do start cutting down what I do Fantastic. So tell us a little bit. Where are these players coming from that contact you? Is it the youth youth game? Is it the semi-pro the professional who tends to contact you for this type of service? All of the above it's remarkable, you know, the range of players the next one the next assessment I'm doing is from an under 10 in The southeast in Kent The one I did this morning in the presentation as I said before was an under 19 from Kazakhstan playing in professional level So I can it can be and that's one of the great things about it. The variety is terrific. Yeah Players from seven upwards as I say up to senior level I did one on a boy who's an under 15 international for Cyprus last week and The next one could be a kid who's you know, just starting out in the game or on the edge of non-league, whatever That's great from a business point of view because the model works for everybody But it's demanding on who could do it. Now fortunately, I've been in the game a long time But then all the sorts of scouting there is different sorts of scouting coaching managing all levels from Local grassroots football through to professional level. So you need to have that range Otherwise, you've no frame of reference, you know, yeah You're watching an under 10 kid which I'm just about to do on grassroots and you've got to know grassroots football at that level and academy football that level but the next one might be an under 18 is playing in You know in a good non-league step two three football So you have to know those levels And that's one of the problems I think for other people who may have tried this sort of thing before is That you have to have if you're gonna offer it to everybody You have to know those standards right across the board and that's difficult to do unless you have a whole group of people to do it Which then it brings other issues with it, you know Fantastic, so something we help coaches with when they start in their their academy businesses is how to run Evaluation sessions so essentially like trial sessions. So what's a piece of advice you can give a coach when when they have a player come to their academy? What should they be looking for? Well, if they're looking to evaluate the player as to whether they're good enough then They need to know the standard that they're comparing them to You know, I always say you need to know your elephant and this came from Years ago when I was in Nigeria in Lagos. I wanted to buy one of those elephants You know that you get carved out of wood So I thought you actually wanted to buy an elephant. Yeah, well that would have been difficult bringing it back You know a little statue And so a Nigerian guy, I know took me into the back streets of Lagos Where they actually made them and I watched this guy in this Dusty tent it was really Take a block of wood and create an elephant out and I said, you know, it's fantastic How do you how can you just take a block of wood and make an elephant out of it? And he said it's easy. You just knock off the bits that don't look like an elephant And I thought that's a nice line, you know, and it's a good line for the tourist sort of thing But I kept thinking about it and kept coming back to it and I thought well that of course, it's true But to do that you really have to know what an elephant looks like in detail You really have to know so when you're looking at your block of wood as a coach or as a scout and it's a player If you don't know what an elephant looks like you're not going to know how close that Is to an elephant you really have to know your elephant and elephants vary as we know So if you're assessing a player Are they good enough to come into my team? Then hopefully you'll know the standard of your team if you're saying Is the coach good enough to For me to invest time working in to try and get them to a higher level You've really got to understand what that high level will require to what the gap is And similarly from my point of view of my assessing the player As to how close they are to academy standards I've got to know what that standard is and that is that cat three academy cat two or cat one and so You have to really know your elephant and and that is the starting point without that everything else could be completely adrift You have to know the standard and this is why I always say the scouts as well You get appointed as a scout to a club and you're desperate to go out and find players The first thing you've got to do is watch rewatch rewatch rewatch your own team your own players To know what you've got what your standard is Otherwise, how can you go out and say yeah that one will fit if you don't know that standard? So that's the key knowing your elephant knowing your elephant Excellent that's great great piece of advice For those coaches watching I guess that's that's kind of like when you bring on a client knowing where that client wants to go Yeah, so if that client wants to play a college soccer It's how what's the process to get them there? Yeah, exactly now we've done a few assessments on players who are going into the uh the college scholarship process So typically the couple that we picked up have been around 15 16 so they're preparing, you know, they've still got time a season or so away But they they want to know how good are we? Compared, you know, how what do we need to work on? Whether they're looking ahead and that's fine because you've got time so if you're able to identify well look you need one to one coaching But you need it on this Now there's loads of one-to-one coaches out there. Hopefully, you know a good number of your coaches What's your your stuff are one-to-one coaches and that's great. Yeah my um Bubbear though is if you send a kid along to one-to-one coach and they say right, this is this is what we're doing This is our our sort of curriculum Well, that's not one-to-one coaching. That's just going on to coaching session. Yeah, they're going to know What does that player actually need? They have to assess the player And obviously that's where an assessment like ours in greater detail can help Well, that's the case then for these kids who are getting ready for scholarship or want to get into the scholarship stream It's identifying what they need to work on and then they can take that assessment along to a one-to-one coach And say look, I need to work on this so For example, they might say I need to work on my one-to-one defending get my body shape right get my position We're on a channeling a player now good one-to-one coach. Okay. We can do that Or they might say I need to work on my you know My weaker foot whatever it might be or taking the ball on the half turn or whatever If they can go along to a one-to-one coach and say this is specifically what I need Then it makes the process so much easier But in order to do that someone has to assess them and give them feedback And that's where we can come in obviously when that's concerned same with strength and conditioning If we say look, you need to be quicker It's no good me referring them to a strength and conditioning coach. It's just a general strength and conditioning coach Because they've got to be referred to someone who knows how to build their power To help make them quicker So in our business we decided right at the beginning We only actually refer people to one one-to-one coach Who saw life six and first you know one strength and conditioning coach ruben tabares One agent because we get asked a lot for agents and that's um division x and so We've no commercial connection with any of those But I will only refer People that I've worked with my customers to people that I trust and who know what they're doing Now fortunately saw on the one-to-one coaching ruben. They also worked through video So it doesn't matter where the players are around the world and Division x the sabby the best in hamford is that they're an international agency Back by law folks so they can work with people around the world But we thought right at the beginning we're going to make it simple and just refer of course people can go to anyone They want but if they want a recommendation we're very selective And so it's it's it's knowing the standard And knowing specifically what the player needs to work on That will affect their game and improve them and how to do that. That's the key for us in our referrals All right, perfect now if a coach watching because I know I'm a coach myself and I get asked this a lot When parents parents might ask the question. How can my child get scouted? So as a coach that has a one-to-one training business or a private academy How can they build a network of scouts or college recruitment department? How do you build that network? Obviously, this is fantastic now because we've got you on here. So coaches can go to you But if you're not around how can they build that that scout in network? Well very much scouting is about a network. You're absolutely right So if you were a scout like my advice would always be build your network And if you're a coach wanting to build a business then you want a network and referrals So if you look, how did I meet the people that I refer people to then? sore Was working at Chelsea when I went there. So we work together Ruben was referred to me by someone a parent whose Son I did an assessment on and they said you've got to meet this guy because he's he's really really top standard conditioning And so we met and and we got to know each other and away we go so They've they've been quite random things the agents because a guy that I used to work with 25 years ago in non-league It was my assistant manager when I was managing a couple of clubs. He works with this this particular agency scouting agency So their connections Can seem fairly random in terms of looking for for a patent, but that's networking, isn't it? So I think the thing to do is you have to make it easier for people to connect up with you when you're in a network So traditionally you would give people a business card that sort of thing Well now like lots of people have electronic business cards So I can just put it on their phone and they've got all my contact details But you've got to spread that word around And then of course the other way the way that we built the business is social media That's the new network or not a new networking is it that's networking now And so on LinkedIn, I don't know how many connections I've got on LinkedIn over 2000. I'm sure So if I put something up from there, I know it's going to get out to a good audience straight away and so You can't rely on any one channel of connection And you have to be active in lots of different ways And be making it easy for people to connect with you through different ways social media is the easiest It's also a busy space But that's you know, that's entirely how we built the business really In terms of advertising and connecting in that way and it's opened up so many things for us But you've got to do on on on different Different channels and you've got to get some advice pretty soon as to how to do it and how to target people and And this sort of thing and that became apparent to us earlier on. Unfortunately, we were able to connect up with the good people So that's how it works There's no simple trick to the networking or if there is it's escaped me in 30 years in game But the other the other thing is for coaches I I met loads of my best contacts through coaching courses I did all my coaching coaching qualifications For example, but I was on the very first UA for B Course in this country in the UK 1997 so Loads of contacts that you make through training courses. I've done all my FA talent IP Levels as well. And again, you that's one of the best things about Qualifications and courses you meet loads of people and you know, that's really a good way of building networks I use when I was a younger coach. I used to go to coaching association Meetings and in service training Anything really then I would get in touch with This was a long time ago. I would get in touch with Coaches that I admired I would just write them a letter. Which is what you did then for email And say can I come and watch you coach? Yeah And surprisingly some of them came back and said yes, you know So I went and watched Dario Grady coach at crew who was just terrific coaching 11 aside It's like you had them all on on the strings, you know, it was fantastic He referred me to Dave Sexton And so on so these were all great coaches back in my era And so I just asked and went along watched and learned from that Any experience I could get, you know, and it all part of process of building that network You know those contact listing it in your phone as it would be now So it's a continuous process of effort on a lot of different fronts But all aimed at connecting that with people Fantastic All right. Well, Chris as we as we begin to wrap up Just want to thank you for coming on sharing your Your story with us. We're going to put all the links to your to your business Below this video so coaches can go and have a look what you're doing even getting contact with you And I want to wish you good luck with your book Thank you. I'm definitely going to buy it So let me know when it's out Yeah, and and I hope to to connect with you in the near future Yeah, thank you. Excellent to speak to you