 I'm pleased to welcome you to this IIEA webinar. My name is Michael Collins and I am the Director General of the IIEA, the Institute of International and European Affairs here in Dublin. We're delighted to be joined today by Mara Sefkiewicz, the Vice President of the European Commission for Institutional Relations and Foresight, and most importantly for today's purposes, Co-Chair of the EU-UK Joint Committee and Partnership Council. I'm very pleased to welcome the Commissioner back to Dublin. He was here previously in 2012, this time virtually of course, and of course an awful lot has changed in the meantime. I think it's fair to say that we could hardly have a more relevant speaker at this time at the Institute. We are again at a critical juncture on issues surrounding the Northern Ireland protocol, issues of enormous importance to relations on and between these islands and between the UK and its European neighbors. Vice President represents the interests of the European Union and of course Ireland in navigating a way forward and in finding solutions to some very sensitive and tricky issues. Vice President Sefkiewicz will speak to us for about 20 minutes and then we will go to the Q&A session with you, our audience. You'll be able to join the discussion in the usual way using the Q&A function on Zoom, which I think is now familiar to everybody. Please feel free to send your questions in throughout the session as they occur to you and we will come to them once the Vice President has finished his presentation. A reminder that today's presentation and the Q&A are both on the record and please do feel free to join the discussion on Twitter using the handle at IIEA. By way of further background, prior to taking on his current responsibilities from 2010 to 2019, Vice President Sefkiewicz was Vice President of the European Commission responsible for inter-institutional relations and administration and subsequently the Energy Union. Prior to this, he served as Commissioner for Education, Training, Culture and Youth. He previously served as a member of the Slovak Diplomatic Corps in Zimbabwe and Canada, as ambassador to Israel and as permanent representative to the EU. Vice President Sefkiewicz holds a PhD in European law from Comenius University in Bratislava. Vice President, Commissioner, you're very welcome. The floor is yours. Thank you. Thank you very much once again for your kind invitation. Ladies and gentlemen, as you see I'm learning Irish now because I think I need it in my very frequent contacts with Ireland and Northern Ireland. And I really would like to thank you, dear Michael and dear Andrew, for your kind invitation also for reminding us how the time is indeed flying. I thought that it was yesterday and it just reminded me that it was really a couple of years ago when I visited that time. Of course, physically your prestigious institute because I know that the Institute of International and European Affairs plays extremely important role in debating European democracy and therefore I very much appreciate your invitation and indeed it's a pleasure to be talking to you and to your audience this morning. If you allow me, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to start with one thing that sometime gets lost in the debate around Brexit, and this is the depth of support for the European Union in Ireland, which is indeed very, very impressive. Over 80% Red Sea Opini and Paul founded over 80% of Irish adults believe Ireland should remain a member of the European Union. And I think that this is no surprise to me because I visited your beautiful country, many times. And I'm also coming from a small member state myself. And I know the enormous advantages that you membership can bring, but at least it's like being in the family because when the family member is in trouble, the whole clan is there to help. And that is why the EU has shown such a strong solidarity with Ireland over past few years as it has faced up to the reality of Brexit. And it has come in many ways, at least financially, as Ireland is by far the most affected member states in the EU. As you know, just one example, the council recently approved the 5 billion euros of Brexit adjustment reserve. And this will, this will support the regions, the sectors, the communities, it hardest by Brexit and Ireland will benefit the most from this fund receiving over 1 billion euros. But as we all know, it's not all about the money. But the outcome of the Brexit referendum back in 2016, it has been clear to us that protecting peace and stability on the island of Ireland must be our number one priority, and that is exactly what it has become. You know, the EU has an unbreakable commitment to the people of Northern Ireland and across the island of Ireland. We have spared no effort to ensure that the peace, stability and prosperity they have enjoyed over the last 20 years is preserved. After all, the EU is a peace project itself. That is why we are continuing to support the peace plus program together with the UK and the Irish government which amounts to around 1 billion euros as well. But that's not all. They're also working hard to overcome of the difficulties that the people and businesses in Northern Ireland are experiencing regarding the implementation. Of the protocol before I turn into detail so that we highlight the underlying points which we sometimes lose the side of as well. The European Union's overall objective is to establish positive and stable relationship with the United Kingdom. Despite the recent difficulties, we remain partners with shared values, faced with the same global challenges, such as climate emergency. Our relationship is now based on two agreements, the withdrawal agreement and the trade and cooperation agreement. The UK government negotiated, agreed and signed both these agreements including the protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland, the subject of today's discussion. And as you know very well, the UK Parliament ratified all these agreements just not that many months ago. Having exercised, having exercised its sovereign right to enter into such international agreements, the UK government now carries the responsibility of respecting them. This is all the more important given how difficult it was to reach agreement. It took countless hours of intense line by line negotiations. But eventually, we achieved what the times seemed impossible, ensuring the UK's orderly withdrawal from the EU and establishing the foundations of the new ambitious relationship between two strong partners. Without any shadow of a doubt, reaching consensus on Northern Ireland was the most challenging part of those negotiations. Together, though we did find a solution. The protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland. As you know well, it serves the number of purposes. It protects the Good Friday Belfast Agreement in all its parts, respects the constitutional order of the United Kingdom, avoids the hard border on the island of Ireland, and preserves the integrity of the EU's single market, while ensuring that the UK as a whole leaves both the single market and the EU's custom union, a key demand of Prime Minister Boris Johnson. This solution was shaped, agreed and approved together by both sides. We therefore also share responsibility for making it work on the ground. On the UK side, it agreed that the EU rules on the ground, the EU rules on goods would remain applicable to Northern Ireland. And in doing so, it accepted that this would mean checks on goods moving between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, acknowledging a role for the EU institutions. This is the only way to avoid the hard border between North and South. On the EU side, we agreed that the UK would carry out those checks and controls on our on our behalf, and unprecedented gesture, I'm sure you would agree. No other jurisdiction in the world had done this before. This solution required compromise. Everyone around the table understood what this compromise is meant in practice. And the implementation of this agreement will continue to require compromise from both sides. Our overarching priority throughout this process has been the people of Northern Ireland. Regardless of the identity or political outlook, and of course the protection of the peace process. We also have a duty towards our consumers to ensure that there are no risks from products imported from the country to different health and safety standards. While the negotiations were difficult, the outcome now presents a real opportunity for Northern Ireland and the island of Ireland. This was one of my key messages when I was in Northern Ireland recently. The exchanges I had during my visit only strengthened my conviction of the enormous benefits on offer to Northern Ireland. In particular, it's unparalleled access to two of the world's largest market with more than 500 million consumers can be a powerful magnet for foreign investments translated into jobs and groups. As one of the business leaders I met in Northern Ireland put it, you can have jam on both sides of your rights. That's certainly one way to enjoy the fruits of your labor. Northern Ireland can trade freely with the EU without having to pay for this unique access to our single market. And I know that the business community in Northern Ireland and across the island of Ireland is keen to take advantage of this opportunity. I'm sure that border communities are equally as positive about its potential. That's why I have raised the idea of investment conferences to install the confidence in business community in Northern Ireland and to pave the way for further opportunity. We are already seeing a significant number of investment inquiries, especially from the United States, Canada, and the EU. If we are to turn this opportunity into reality, the protocol must be properly implemented. Over the past month, my colleagues in the EU and I have made every effort to respond to outstanding problems with creative and solid new solutions. But the spirit of compromise needs to be mutual one as our responsibility is also a shared one. The protocol is not the problem. On the contrary, it is the only solution we have. Failing to apply it will not make problems disappear, but simply take away the tools to solve it. Simply opposing the protocol without providing real solutions won't make the problems go away either. However, we are seeking solutions that work for all, including those opposed to the protocol. The EU has already tabled and adopted several practical solutions to overcome the difficulties felt on the ground. Recently, on the 30th of June, the Commission put forward a package of measures, including our commitment to change our own rules to ensure the long-term supply of medicine from Great Britain to Northern Ireland. But I also need to be honest. While we will continue looking for solutions to minimize the effects of Brexit on everyday lives, we will never be able to remove them entirely. Such are the consequences of Brexit and the choices made by the UK government. The key question now, of course, is where we go from here. As you know, the UK published a command paper on the 21st of July, and we have been engaging intensively with our UK partners ever since. I believe that our focus should be on those issues that matter most to the people of Northern Ireland and their everyday life. In Belfast, I listened to stakeholders emphasize the need to facilitate east-west trade. That means long-term solution in the food and plant safety, or as we call it, SPS area. I heard businesses ask for further trade facilitations in the area of customs. And I also heard a lot about the need for Northern Irish political institutions and other stakeholders to be properly heard. One of the major vital importance to me, echoed throughout my visit, is finding a solution for the continued supply of medicines to Northern Ireland, including generics. This way medicines provided under the NHS, for example, can continue to move into Northern Ireland without any hindrance. This is a complicated area, and we are double, I would even say triple checking. The UK authorities as well as the pharmaceutical companies themselves to ensure that our approach is indeed watertight. I remain convinced that our focus must remain on these areas. We cannot afford to think short term either. We need long lasting solutions to provide predictability, stability and certainty in the Northern Ireland. Therefore, to be successful, however, it must be done together with our UK partners. Join the engagement for shared solution. But let me also be clear about what we will not do. We will not renegotiate the protocol as the UK is requested. And we will not accept solutions which would effectively mean cutting Northern Ireland off from the EU single market and related opportunities. Finally, allow me to touch on article 16. A lot has been said by the UK politicians about the possibility of the UK triggering article 16. I do not think that this has been helped. It distracts us from working together to find solutions, and it would not help us find solutions any quick. After all, it has taken us five long years to get where we are today. So it is clear that there are no quick, easy fix solutions to what is an extremely complex situation. I want to close by underlying the positive. I believe that we can find practical solutions to help ensure that the protocol works well on the ground across Northern Ireland and Ireland in urban and rural areas alike. If the protocol is functioning well in Northern Ireland, it will also be the benefit of all on both sides of the Irish sea and across the channel. And here, if you allow me, I would conclude my introductory remarks. I would once again thank you for your kind invitation for your attention, and I am looking forward to what I'm sure will be a lively discussion. Thank you very much, Michael. Thank you. Thank you, Vice President indeed that that was that was wonderfully full presentation of the current situation and just invite people to please let us have your questions we get to as many as we can I suspect we won't be able to get them all. We can get to them individually hopefully we will cover it will cover them thematically and get the commissioners vice presidents use to the greatest extent possible but if I could just start off maybe by getting the ball rolling if I'm a vice president. And you rightly ended on a positive note and optimistic notes although at times I'm sure it's quite difficult to be optimistic and positive but how serious would you rate the current in pass over the Northern Ireland protocol. Michael, can you can you repeat the last part how serious I would. How would how serious to how serious do you consider the current impasse over the Northern Ireland protocol is. I think that. If you look at it through the lenses of practical solutions, I'm really convinced that to most of the issues which been brought up in my really extensive very very very cordial and I have to say very warm discussions I had in Northern Ireland when we we spend a lot of time with the representatives of business community. We had very sincere discussion with the civic society and I had an honor and a pleasure to talk in Stormont with all leaders of all political parties I met the first minister and representatives of the first deputy minister and as you can imagine, I would say that the questions being kind of raised, maybe with a different intensity, but very often that being that the same sectors and the same group of the problems which we need to tackle on the practical and I'm sure that if you would focus on what needs to be done concretely for the people in in the Northern Ireland and kind of turn the page and start to develop all those opportunities I was referring to and I can give you many more examples which have been presented, especially by the business representatives. So then I think that we will be able to be in the right direction and I believe that we have good answers to, to all these questions but if we would be here to reopen everything over the last five years, role of EU institutions, access of Northern Ireland to single market and you know all the basic questions to which we've been looking for the answers for that many years. And of course I mean we have a we have a big problem, but I think that our task with the Lord's trust especially is to look for the solutions, and therefore I can tell you that we are working very intensely within the EU institutions with the Member States with the Parliament we are of course in very close contact with the Irish government and I would say that we are in permanent touch with our UK counterparts because I think that we know how to solve these problems not all of them, but the most troubling that we clearly can do. So what we need is also to have a political will from, from other side to role sleeves up focus on the practical problems and I believe that we can we can solve it. If you push it into another dimension some kind of reopening of the issues which we all hope to be closed with these both agreements and understanding so then then then we have a then we have a problem and we are hitting on the walls, which will be very difficult to overcome so therefore, we want to make sure that that we will complete finalize our work by the by the meat of the of the next week and to clearly demonstrate that to all the more most recurring problems, which I heard about when I was visiting Northern Ireland, we have a good solutions and I hope that then we can work very well with the Lord Frost and other stakeholders to push it into the more more positive territory. You, you, the Commission seems to be very much focused on practical solutions offering practical solutions to some of these issues, you cited a particular medicines issue. Just, would you be concerned or to what extent would you be concerned that the issue has gone beyond the practical and become politicized to the point where practical solutions maybe just not sufficient for for for for people who are opposing the protocol. I think that first and foremost, we have to of course listen to the people in Northern Ireland and I can tell you, despite what is what I understand is charged political atmosphere in Northern Ireland that when I was talking to the, as I said, representatives of different individuals in the in the Northern Ireland 90 90% of all the questions and problems which been presented to me in practical practical I mean practical for traders practical for for farmers practical for the people who explained to me just do the business. But in Northern Ireland and GB and and and vice vice versa, a lot of, you know, getting used to the new system and I believe that if we demonstrate that we can we can solve these problems and we do it in a good faith and in the in a good will that it positive positive repercussion on also all those who are who are opposed to the protocol because I think that first and foremost the opposition was generated because they felt that the protocol might represent more obstacles and opportunities and I think it's it's our duty to highlight the fact that we can develop further their opportunities and and reduce reduce the obstacles and of course I heard those who are opposing the protocol but I heard also those and they've been quite quite many of them who want the protocol to be properly implemented and to actually type into that huge potential, which free access free access just ask the Norwegian what it means free access. So basically trading with the biggest trading blog in the world what it what it represents for Northern Ireland how many jobs how many business opportunities how many new new type of logistics distribution haps and how many opportunities it it represent for northern I hope that we will be focusing on what is important, what is important for the people of the Northern Ireland and I hope that we will make pretty strong case that it's much better to work clearly within the protocol, being aware and being able to resolve the outstanding practical practical issues and I hope that it to also be the good contribution to come down with the sometime politically very charged discussion in Northern Ireland. Okay, I'm just going to take a few questions then if I may from from our audience. I will probably go that probably be a little bit of repetition here as we're going along but please bear with me. A question here from Brian Dobson who's a presenter of Irish radio news at lunchtime the RT news at one and he wants to know. What would it take for the EU to reduce some of the checks on GB goods going into nor into the north, and the Vice President indicated that there would need to be compromise on both sides. I think it's, it's a very relevant question and that's one area on which we are really focusing a lot right now. First and foremost, I think everybody would agree with me that if you are talking about the, the integrity of the European single market. We have to know what is coming in and what is coming out. And as I said, we kind of delegated this power to control to check to UK and to kind of push it up another level. So what we would need would be real time access to the it databases and we are discussing this since I would say the summer, not of this year but of the of the last year and I have to say that I think it was last week. I have personal information from the from the Lord's roster, where it's more clearly spelled how the IT architecture is being built. What is the access which will be granted to our experts and I think that step by step slowly gradually we are getting to where we need to be and and of course our final destination is what is agreed between us from the outset that we will have real time access to the IT database if it comes to the to the goods and and customers. And of course, one one that is done and they would have much better overview of what is happening on the border. Then of course we are ready to look creatively on what can we do with the checks. How can we reduce the numbers and preserve, I would say the same quality and the same level of the information we need so we are ready to look at it. More data, we've got easier it would be for us and we are looking for different options how this can be done. Yeah, and you mentioned I think there is an expectation that the Commission will next week produce maybe a response. It's response to the command paper we have a question here from Shona Murray, who is the Europe correspondent with the Euro news, and particularly she wants to know when the EU announces its details on softening the Northern Ireland protocol in coming days. So how can you be sure that the UK government will simply bank these delegations and continue its threat to trigger articles 16. I think that's that's that's very, that's very relevant question. And I have to say that I get this question a lot also from from our member states, and from our members of the European Parliament. And I can tell you that that I carry a certain political risk in working on what I described the very solid set of practical solutions to do the problems we we heard so much about when I was in in in Northern Ireland. And indeed, I can tell you that we are looking at every possible opportunity inside out what we can what we can do in this for concrete areas. I mentioned I mean the SPS has done so medicine supplies, but also making sure that Northern Irish representatives have a properly heard in in the EU. So we're looking on all the opportunities and all the all the all the avenues. And I think that's what we are discussing right now and where we would like to put the final touches, hopefully by the by the mid offer. I think that it's very sincere proposal but from from our, our perspective, this would be really, I would say very far reaching proposals and I sincerely hope that it will be seen as such by our UK counterparts and they engage constructively in our projects because I think we have to kind of move from the top political political rhetoric from the from the from the threats, we hold the time down to the business to actually solve the problems we we heard a lot about from Northern Ireland and and I'm absolutely convinced that the article 16 is definitely not something which helps in that respect because it brings their relevant questions. You are trying to do your, your most and what you hear from the other side is it's not good enough bring more and you know the material grounds for article 16 are there. So we could trigger any time you want I mean these threats are not definitely helping to present and work on the on the good good proposals but we want simply to make sure that from our side we will demonstrate to people of Northern Ireland to the people of Ireland. And we in the European Commission are ready to do everything, what is possible within the framework which we just agreed and ratified to solve the practical issues which are on the table that we want the Northern Ireland to benefit from the access to the trading block in the world. They want to make sure that there will be no hard border and then we contribute by this future prosperity of Northern Irish economy to the peace and stability. As it is clearly underline underscored and enshrined in that in a good Friday agreement. That's, that's our proposal, we will put it on the table, and if for some other reasons and I'm not going to speculate what they might be. This is rejected. Then indeed, we have, we have a problem. We have a problem but I hope that we will avoid it because we are approaching this from the beginning in a good phase and we want to be problem solvers and this is what we are going to do next week. Yeah, and obviously, Vice President you have been speaking to the Lord Frost and to your team has been working with his team I'm sure pretty intensively. Do you have any, if the Commission gets a reasonable response next week to its paper, what is the process after that is that just go does it go into more process and what sort of timescale do you envisage being followed in trying to address just reaching a conclusion. I have to say that I had very constructive engagement with the Lord Frost over the whole summer. We agreed that we will do our utmost to create as constructive atmosphere as possible. Our team are, I would say, talking to each other all the time, and we are in very, very frequent, very frequent contact and I think that our response to the Governmental Ministerial Statement on the Grace period been testimony to that. Also the fact that despite of sometimes very charged atmosphere we are working on these very important proposals for the next week it just testifies that we want to really bring additional constructive proposals to the table. So what we'll follow up to that, of course, once we finalize the work on all these proposals which is which is which is not easy, I can tell you it's not easy. It's very, very hard intense work for the whole Commission on my colleagues are taking part in. And what we are proposing to our UK partners is that also our proposals will have to be explained in great detail on the technical level. Then we are looking for the yearly possible date to go through the proposals of the UK and the EU together with the Lord Frost. And I think that this would happen within, within, within, within a fortnight. And then I think we will have very intense intense talks throughout the rest of October and November and I think it's in the best interest of both of us that we will try to find that the reasonable solution before the end of the year early next year because I think that the time we are in shouldn't be eternal. I think nobody benefits from that it creates political tension, it's the price that the businesses from benefiting from the from single market and and also it consumes enormous political energy on on on both sides prevent us from what I hope would be eventually the next stage, how we are going to to forge the new true post Brexit. I believe close partnership between EU and UK, I think we have enough of the global problems on our table I mentioned the climate change now we are very of course are taking high energy prices we have a lot of security concerns to deal with so that the agenda for the EU UK is pretty important and I think that we should devote adequate political energy also to those large global themes, but until we make sure that the problems at hand, which are so sensitive for the people on the island in the island are set up, of course, it's very difficult to move to the most more more constructive agenda which I think it's, it's long it's long overdue. So, to come back to your question presentation next week, and then intense talk with our UK counterparts on all levels, hopefully with making clear headway before the end of the year. Okay, thank you very much. I'm going to turn to questions because there's an awful lot of them here. But just one final one, you said there that your relationship with Lord Frost was constructive you've had a constructive engagement with them over the summer in particular. Are you from time to time with the rhetoric, leaving aside the party conference which maybe very particular event. But are you surprised from time to time at the rhetoric that you hear from London, given the state of your, the relationship that you enjoy with Lord Frost. I understand that we both operate in in political environment. And I mean this, this rhetoric is, I would say now part of the political debate in the UK, but my job here is to make sure that we will find the good practical solutions for the people in the Northern Ireland and on the island of Ireland and so that's my priority and I am doing my utmost not to be detract by any political statements but of course they are creating the political atmosphere and the harshest statements more difficulties also for me to do my job but of course here we are we are we are professionals we are solution driven people and therefore we want to focus on the good proposals which we can put on the table and really deal with the concrete concrete issues and therefore we are focusing on on that part, which I think is very important and which can actually deliver a real change for the people in Northern Ireland. So let me go to some questions now and then one here from Steve Akin whom you may have met, you know, the politician obviously a member of the Legislative Assembly in Northern Ireland, and Steve, Vice President, now that at least 50% of the population in Northern Ireland believe that the protocol is undermining the Belfast Agreement and that strand three of the agreement has been completely undermined by the protocol. How can the EU legitimately say it is supporting the agreement in all of its parts. If the EU claims that it is a supporter of the agreement. When is it going to give equal weight to all of its parts. They're all his words of course. So much for for for that question as well and I think we, we had a discussion on this very important and sensitive topic when I was in Northern Ireland and therefore I was very clear also in my meeting with all political leaders that what we want is to have the best possible agreement for all communities in Northern Ireland for all communities we have no agenda or tackling constitutional territory territorial arrangements of the of the UK. And I believe if you find the good practical solutions to the to the issues we discussed, also these worries would dissipate because they are very often concerned between East and East East and West trade and and I heard the representative from the business community who was explaining to me look you know all my life I was just doing business but in Northern Ireland and GB and GB and Northern Ireland. So I'm not benefiting from the access to the European single market maybe in the future that would be the case but until now this is not the case, and I have to face additional problems which I didn't anticipate just the three years ago. So that's legitimate concern that's that's the issue. So let's work on it let's solve it and I think that by resolving these these issues so a lot of, of the, a lot of concerns, a lot of concerns about how, in what way, this might affect a good Friday agreement would be resolved because for us, as I said, peace, stability and and respect for the good Friday agreement is, is optimal and paramount importance. Therefore, we went for such a length to negotiate on the protocol it took it took us five years it was the last thing which was agreed and we really negotiated the line by line with our, with our British British partners so it was really something which was really look at from from all the sides and therefore, I think that after five years of the best minds working on the solution, I can say that that's the best solution we found. It's probably not ideal, but to be quite honest, even in this very intense talks and discussions. I had in Northern Ireland. I haven't, I haven't heard about any alternative. What is the alternative. Definitely it's not the hard border. Basically, it's, it's, it's not just simply getting rid of all, all the, all the controls and check which would, which would undermine the access of the Northern Ireland to single market I haven't, I haven't heard the alternative. What we are trying to do to deliver here is to find the solutions, which would address the concern of unionist community and I had, I had to say, I think already, I think, three conversations with Sir Jeffrey, whom I appreciate a lot and, and I told him that I of course listen to him very carefully what we need to do is to find the solution which is acceptable for all communities I had before Sir Jeffrey I talked to Mr puts several location and I told him, please tell us come up with the solutions how you would like to the checks and controls because you understand that we need them and I think they've been very, very important in, in, in the past when we had the medical disease when we had the foot and mouth disease and I still remember and basically saying you know why we should decide which cows are Northern Irish or Irish because all cows are Irish and, and the reason he said it was, because he wanted to make sure that a dead time island of Ireland is protected from the, from the animal diseases which been threatening the farmers in Northern Ireland. And he would understand that I think that was proven as a system which is working which is good in the past we are talking about public health, we are talking about animal plant health so I think we need to find practical solution how to guarantee the safety to the, to the people on island Northern Ireland and of course, then people on the, on the, on the single, single, single market and not in any way putting in under any question mark and in Joe party, all tenants of the, of the Good Friday agreement so therefore I think our politic line is very clear. And where are the question marks, let's address them but let's look for that in the practical ways and not only political declarations how we want to solve. Okay, I'm going to just there are an enormous number of questions to her relating to articles 16 and I'm just going to mention one or two of them, and you can come back to them some of it, you've already addressed. But a lot of them I have to say Vice President based on the clear expectation that the UK will will trigger article 16 but let me read some of the questions to you from the Guardian, for example Lisa oh Carol she says, what will your reaction when Lord Frost announces the UK is going to trigger article 16. The EU must know that this is now more likely than not, and must have game planned its response. And then second part of that question she says how concerned are you that the UK will simply stop applying the protocol completely, but claim that it is still in place. That's just one question and maybe one or two more if I may. Again, a lot from journalists here from BBC Northern Ireland. And what does the UK do if the, what does the EU do if the UK says not good enough to to your response next week triggers article 16 and begins to operate the sea border on the basis of the command paper. And then a final question from again the BBC. How seriously do you Jessica Parker, how seriously do you take UK threats to trigger the article 16. And when you say there can be no renegotiation. Are you ruling out any change to the text, or perhaps any additions to the protocol. Thank you very much for for all those questions and if you allow me I will try to address them politically because I think this is what is required at this stage first and foremost, as I said we always been approaching the discussions and our relationship with our UK partners in a good way. So what we are currently working on. We are absolutely convinced that these proposals are addressing that the practical problems and issues which been raised by stakeholders and representatives of different sectors and different communities in Northern Ireland. So that's the proposals which we are putting on the table, hopefully the next week. We do not treat them as a take it or leave it proposals. We are just showing that this is the way how we can solve that practical issues, which, which are on the table. So we will definitely go through them with our UK partners and I know that what is very important for them is in the end to arrive at the joint solutions and the joint decisions, and I respect that I respect that what I need is to be in the room with our UK partner partners when they will be the same constructing this demonstrated from from from this side. What I hear a lot from the launch was this that that that I should get from my comfort zone and I'm telling him the same people should get from our comfort zone if you want to resolve these issues and I think that we are we are pretty doing that by really looking at all the all the all the issues and practicalities, which we know we need, we need to resolve. So I am approaching, I would say that the weeks ahead from the perspective of in the intense talks discussions, common work on on the joint solution, which I hope we will be then able jointly present and recommend, of course, to our constituencies for David in the in the UK or in Northern Ireland and, and as you can imagine, I need to work hard to make sure that we have full support of our member states and the European pilot. What I want to say is that we are really going at enormous length here, I believe in very forthcoming attitudes to our UK partners, and I believe that the package of the practical solutions we are putting on the table would be attractive and for Northern Ireland would be, I hope, supported by by majority of stakeholders in Northern Ireland. And if, despite of all that, on different grounds and I'm not going to speculate about the possible reasons. If the UK decides to go for launching article 16 or simply disapplying, disapplying the protocol, then you would understand and I can I can assure you that we will not hesitate to use all options available to us to safeguard the EU interest. Our commitment to the Good Friday Belfast Agreement is absolute and a key prerequisite for this is avoidance of the hard border on the island. But then, of course, you would explore all the options which are available to us, be done to this global agreement on the trading cooperation agreement, but I hope we shouldn't go down the road. We shouldn't focus too much time on that. Let's solve the problems, which are in Northern Ireland linked to the protocol, let's solve them, and I think that would be the best news for everyone. Excellent. Two questions here related to the ECJ, the European Court of Justice, one indeed from Sir Ivan Rogers, former Principal Private Secretary to the Prime Minister. He wants to know, does the Vice President see any scope for finding any options on governance, which in some fashion address the issues the DUP the loyalist community and the right of the Conservative Party have with the role of the CJ EU. According to him, this seems to be the hardest issue and a similar question from Colom O Mungo, who's the Deputy Foreign Editor at Irish Radio Television News. He says, practical issues aside, the UK is also asking for other measures like the removal of the ECJ role in the application of the protocol. Is there any chance of that? Again, coming back to my visit to Northern Ireland, I spent there, I would say two full days of discussing the practical issues with, as I described earlier with lots of stakeholders coming from different different walks of life. So the ECJs was mentioned once in this two days discussion because, and it was not from business community, it was not from civic society, and it was mentioned once. 99.9% of time and the questions and the problems I heard being coming from that categories, which I described before, trade, SPS, medicines, customs, Northern Irish stakeholders being properly heard by the European counterparts. 99.9% of time and 99.9% of questions being coming from these categories. So this is some kind of late addition on something which we agreed upon very clearly when we've been signing on this draw agreement and on the protocol. And therefore, if you are talking about the constructive solutions to the practical problems, I think that doing away with the European Court of Justice is not one of them. To be quite honest, I find it hard to see how Northern Ireland would stay or would keep the access to the single market without oversight of the European Court of Justice. Do we want to deprive the people of Northern Ireland for this tremendous opportunity, this huge advantage? Do we want to do that? So that's the best answer I can give you at this stage. So let's think very, very carefully what we are putting on the table and what kind of price tag this might have for the businesses and for the people in Northern Ireland. Excellent. Okay, just two final questions and then we'll wrap it up on the half hour. Vice President, one is from the Press Association here in Dublin, James Ward. He wants to know, does Mr. Sefkovic believe the protocol has protected Northern Ireland from recent shortages seen elsewhere in the UK? And perhaps the very final question then, it's at the Conservative Party Conference during the week, the UK Trade Representative made comments relating to the level of Northern Ireland trade, of course, which has increased, I think, exponentially. And that somehow that could be construed as a negative. The questioner, Aidan McGuire wants to know, can we get the views of the Vice President on these comments? Of course, when we watch the news from UK, and there are clearly difficult moments which the UK government is now trying to assess. And I think it's for the UK government to deal here with the challenge. I understand that on the island of Ireland, the situation is different. And I think that the supplies, be the fuel or foodstuffs are in good shape. Everything works fine. And of course, we are very happy about it. And I believe that the GBU cable, so the problems they're faced with right now. So coming to the second and the third question, I think that also our UK partners should be happy if more locally produced products make it to the shelves in Northern Ireland. It's much better for the, I would say, local business for creating the jobs, creating the growth is much better from the carbon footprint perspective. And I think we should keep that perspective because we are approaching COP26 in Glasgow very soon. So I think if there are more locally produced goods on the shelves in Northern Ireland, let's be happy about it. It's good design of a vibrant business farmers community in Northern Ireland who just needed to get the more opportunity, they used it, they grasped it and let's be happy for them because I think it's good for the local economy. And I think that also we will see that there are increased volume of trade. That's also the good sign that the business communities found ways how to cooperate, how to develop the new business opportunities and that's actually one of the reasons why I believe that tackling the practical solutions with the protocol would be to the benefit of Northern Ireland is these representatives and overall people of Northern Ireland because they would have the access to the to the biggest market in the world. And I think that it would have a very clear secondary positive aspect on the EU UK relations because it would allow us to focus on other issues which are equally important I mean we are number one trading partner for UK if I remember correctly there are a lot of issues, I think we would like to discuss to solve to move on, but unless we resolve this very pertinent and sensitive side of issues linked with the implementation of the protocol it's very it's very difficult to go to that to the next stage. I think that from all the, all the aspects, be it short term, be it long term, be it strategic, be it from the perspective of the, of the, of the, of the new out of geopolitical situation in the world we should have every interest to solve the problems which are on the table, and really get back to what I think would be so important to have more strategic approach and outlook to the EU UK relationship. Commissioner you've been very generous and kind and with your time. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. We wait for great interest in the evolution of events, particularly next week and then indeed the weeks thereafter. Obviously, very, very challenging times, but we wish you the very best, and we look forward to seeing you at the Institute in person at some time hopefully in the not too distant future. Thank you very much for that kind invitation and also very much appreciate the high quality of questions then an opportunity to share with your esteemed audience, our thoughts in the European Union. I think if we had another hour we'd still be here so but in any event I think we've covered enormous amount of ground and thank you for being so generous. Thank you. Thank you.