 Are we the villain yeah, maybe I'm I'm movies villain, maybe Guess you find out near the end. You don't really know right at the beginning Don't know if they'll turn out to be a good guy, you know Yeah, that's what film needs is twist twist ends mystery suspense We'll make some strong already see people in chat wonderful. It is indeed EFAP time and I'm on time You didn't manage to go too long Over the limit if there was such a thing I anticipate a lot of feuding with chat this week. Oh Is this gonna be a controversial topic? I've already seen different opinions flying around you did a forge yesterday Did you not miss two opinions? I did. How did that go? It was fun. It was a good conversation. I do expect some some controversy Mike all around there might be some divisive opinions Maybe divisive opinions, but divisive ones divisive. That's that's not device us Yeah, not with my eyes is is the better word Right well Welcome welcome. Welcome. Welcome everybody to EFAP three. I forget what it is every single time Two three six not three Damn if I've three if that's three. We're filling in old numbers that we finally made it I don't think we get this far But we're here. We're here to talk about a little movie that you may have heard come out recently and Guests we got a new guest this time new blood. Look at me sitting right there. He's got blue hair Everyone loves those kinds of people destiny Welcome, is it you go I'm assuming you're gonna go by movie cynic, right? Yes, sir. Yes, sir Beautiful. I met you on good old open bar I did maybe I drag you on here to talk about movies someday. And so here we are Welcome welcome. How you doing? I'm doing great. Thanks for the invite. Yeah, I've been a huge fan of you guys for a long time So it's an absolute pleasure to be here. Thank you. Oh, well, we might take care of that tonight Don't you worry. I was actually gonna say well, yeah You're no capital opinions again. He's right there. Okay. Okay. Oh, how do you throw? Intro lame Fresh meat for the grinder. Yeah. Hell, yeah We got a lot to talk about a lot to discuss And so I think what we should do first which we do sometimes do sometimes not do but we probably will do it This time is a blurb a good old fashioned Summarization of your thoughts and feelings on the film whatever you wish to talk about and forever how long you talk about You know complete freedom on this one. However, I would be curious to have our guest go first See what his Opinions on this this action adventure sci-fi fantasy MCU Movie film is why don't you why don't you go ahead? It's I saw it twice and it's a mixed bag is the best way to describe it for me. It's It's old hat to kind of say like well, it's better than anything that's come out since you know endgame it I Still think spider-man no way home is the best that's come out since endgame but it It's such a difficult way to discuss this movie It's like I didn't enjoy anything that they did with the first or second act I felt like the third act kind of felt more like a Guardians movie and the best way it can describe the first or second act would be it felt like the space casino scene in The last Jedi and like Like a two-hour extended cut of that Which isn't a compliment whatsoever little can't fight I felt it was weird that the They decide that James Gunn decided to go with like a rocket backstory is kind of the emotional crutch of the movie I Hate when they bring in animals to kind of get that emotional resident resident out of people I feel like it's cheating almost it was like the same kind of critique It was like the same kind of critique I gave to Avatar 2 where they use like that space whale as the emotional crutch of the movie And I was like it's such a cheap way of Getting people to be like, you know, well the movie made me feel something so it was good And I thought it was weird that like you have all of these characters that we've come to know and love This is their sixth appearance for a lot of them And what you do to get any emotion out of the audience is to do a backstory of rocket like it's Not necessarily that I didn't want to know rockets backstory or anything But it's just felt weird that like you're doing this in the final movie It made me keep questioning like this is what you decided to do or the final adventure with these guys Like a last Jedi space casino sequence and flashbacks But and I also felt it was weird that like it felt like Chris Pratt was kind of phoning in his performance. There was Really great sequence near the end like when rockets when he thinks rockets dying that was I thought was really well-acted It's probably also why they put it in the trailer too but overall like Despite the criticisms there were still some highs for me And so the best I can say is like I didn't think it was mid. I thought it was just Okay, like one step above mid and it At this point, I'll kind of take what I can get when it comes to the MCU so it'll Since I started my channel, it'll be the first review where it's not just a complete like Shitting on a movie. Yeah I will say as well for this format as strange as it sounds and don't worry It's kind of a fast and loose rule Try and remain spoiler free for as far as we're into summarizing the film It's a strange thing, but it kind of makes for the format to be a little bit more fun But however, if you really want to skip ahead to something then you can go ahead It's a warning to anyone listening to this. We're going we're going hard into spoilers and a spoil everything eventually But we're also going to try and deliver it piece by piece once we're done with everyone's General perspective and thank you very much for yours. Why don't we have cap next? What is your general thoughts on guardians of the galaxy? Three I really liked it warts and all I would say that I disagree with almost everything the movie cynic just said So I'm excited to talk about it. I It's a flawed movie. It has problems for sure most of them in the plot And I suppose the world building to a lesser extent, but the plot is not especially good But in my opinion, it's kind of on par with a lot of James Gunn's other Superhero films where the character writing the dialogue and the jokes are what's strongest and the plot is pretty weak We'll discuss. I'm sure how this relates to his other films, but I really enjoyed it. I like all these characters I thought it was an interesting send-off for them and I love everything to do with Rockets origin story, so I'm Excited to talk about it with you all today. All right Uh, Fringy, what did you think? Um It's really disappointed. I really like the first two Guardians films I think that they're among the stronger entries in the in the MCU and I was I was like looking forward to this one as like a film compared to The like everything else that we've gotten basically Like for the last few years I Certainly don't think that this film is like nearly a cynical as a a lot of the films that have come out and TV shows over the last Few years, I think it's got aspects of it that are like really strong But I think the way that I would summarize this film is that it is a lot messier than Guardians 1 and 2 It's not as focused and the plot I Ma I think that I think that as we we delve into it in detail It's gonna fall apart and my concern is And I haven't quite figured it out yet as I'm not sure where I'm at when it comes to figuring out how Compromised I think character is because of it. There are certain aspects of the film that I think Like after going through it are gonna hold up very well But yeah, I'm Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at at the moment All right rags. What do you think? What a What a fucking shit show? Wow, there's so much I felt like Generally when I walk out of a movie and I feel very Confused and conflicted that doesn't mean that it was so good. It confused me Typically it means that there's a lot of stuff in there that upon a first viewing Didn't sit right with me and then the more that you delve into the issues the worse That they'll get When it comes to Guardians 3 I'm kind of holding on to the things that I like about it in the same way that someone might Cling to a life raft in a stormy sea I think the plot is is in shambles I think there's very little that probably is gonna be working when it comes to the plot. I think we have some some really bad character Stuff that's happening. I think that tonally and in terms of its pacing and it's Kind of it particularly in terms of tone. It's a mess. I think there there are certainly a few things It's still really bother me about this movie And it's not to say that there's things that I really You know, there are things that I really like about this movie I mean emotionally it worked for me in a lot of ways But I think that those particular things will Unfortunately, maybe be swallowed up by a bunch of other stuff There are things of value here, but yeah, this is gonna be a long complex Journey through a very strange what feels like six or seven films that have been Kind of mixed up and stirred into a single one So yeah buckle up. We're gonna have a lot of stuff to talk about That's true Which leaves me I suppose What I will say is this is easily the greatest film in phase five It's not even a competition. I would say I'm gonna go out there and take that hot take I hope I'm gonna have to fight on that one, but yes I think it dominates phase five currently. So, you know, take that as a big plus I have gone through it Significantly hardcore again and again. I am very unhappy with this film I and I was one of its biggest sort of I was trying to get everyone a little hyped Little excited. I think this was a hopeful one. There's a lot of reason to think it was gonna be pretty damn good But oh boy, did it disappoint the hell out of me? boy I'm not even sure what I would summarize as Compliment there's no point in me running through all of what I think is bad when it comes to writing because I think it's got major flaws in every category Including we're not limited to a garbled tone a character inconsistencies and assassination plot complete plot fuck ups and Ignorant will building to the point of matching stuff like it's in phase four The positives though, it's like, I don't know man. There's a few scenes I like Yeah, no I guess My position as of updated since the open bar if anyone saw that it's it's not exact I've gotten a little less favorable of the film since then Um, but today, I'm sure we'd all like to explain to Anyone who's listening and each other why we may hold the perspectives we do and to do that We're gonna be going through chrono Logically and talking pretty much just about everything that you folks ready for that Yeah, I'm ready in Well, all right, then first thing that happens and I'd be curious to hear everybody's opinions on this is a quite somber Marvel logo intro that has all imagery from Guardians alone. I think it starts with the comics and then it goes into just the films What what is everyone thinking about it anything? It got me thinking about what tone we were gonna get What kind of are we gonna do something like infinity war here with this kind of opening? I was I was I was already starting I feel to get primed for potential disaster slash hitting the ground running with something So I got the I liked it too, but in retrospect. I think it's a little bit unsuitable It I agree So I got a similar impression to it as I do from the infinity war intro Where it's setting the scene this set in the tone for like this one this one ain't gonna end well This is gonna be a tough rough ride and I suppose you could argue it's in reference to a particular history that happens in the film, but Seeing it after knowing what happens in the film I was just like this doesn't feel right and it's strange because I feel like it gets overwritten by the first use of a song Almost straight away And so now I don't really what does that mean it's overwritten the the tone set by that initial song We all like that the initial Use of the music and the visuals that of these are the guardians and it's time to say goodbye But not in a positive way. I distinctly got the impression of like whoo. This is gonna be It's gonna be a rough one and then There was a different song that plays I'm trying to remember what song it was First song is an acoustic of Crete by Radiohead. Yeah, which was a distinctly different impression like a different feeling I got I certainly got a different. You don't think that's a somber melancholy song I think in a different way It's like someone who wants to fit in who doesn't belong and they want to be you know a part of a group or they want to Not quite the same as expecting like a destructive Potentially Dower farewell Oh, yeah, I don't know it feels a little bit off in retrospect to me, but first time around I thought it was gonna be super suitable because I was expecting Something to follow along in terms of particular events in terms of drastic events But you know, it's not it's not too big of a deal. I was just thinking about I was curious if anyone else felt similar or not No Didn't have any problem with it whatsoever Definitely to I think it's to sort of similar in a way, but yeah, especially thinking back Yeah, it just doesn't seem appropriate. I certainly don't think so, but I mean you understand how this film ends Yeah, looking back definitely. I mean you can still remain relatively spoiler-free. It's it's very positive the ending of this film So, but we yes anyway, go ahead. No, go ahead. What are you gonna say? I Think the movie kind of starts on more of a melancholy tone and then ends positive I don't exactly see what the problem is there. I think that I'm the general sense I get for those intro credits is more so that it's gonna be setting the tone for the movies whole experience as opposed to maybe the opening scene Hence the the job of like a song starting up on the opening scene It'll be weird to have like a song and then a song as opposed to that's that's the impression I get But this is the thing. It's it's definitely down to the individual on that one. I suppose Anyone is welcome to say anything, but I I've said what I've what I think very well. I'm ready to carry on I Think it's fun to have rockets singing along to a lot of the songs in in Guardians now They've they've like developed that relatively strong throughout the three of them But someone I like at the beginning of Guardians 2 is that he tries to argue that he's setting up the music Because Quill wants it when it's obvious that he wants it. Yeah I think they've carried along pretty well now It's a subtle little thing But I actually quite like that the song that he was going to put on in the beginning of 2 was Mr. Blue Sky, I think there's oh, yeah, something you draw between that and the connection to what happens in this film Could be interesting one of the first things we find out is the Peter is like Staying drunk almost all the time drinking himself into a stupa. He's pretty miserable and it's to do with obviously what's happened with Gamora, which I think is Good choice. I'm trying to remember the scenes they had in Love and Thunder, but as you can imagine, I've kind of Yeah, I don't yeah relevant at all. It's it's as if that didn't really happen, which is yeah, that's okay I Need to talk about the love and thunder. Yeah, obviously he meant a shit ton to her to him and he's Gone, but I suppose we don't really know the like what the state of affairs are yet But it doesn't look good if this is his current standing You even have like Nebula picking him up and Drax being like our shit again And so it's it seems like they're not in the Like they're in a steady state the Guardians, but the Peters clearly not doing well Which I think is a reason the place to start considering everything that's happened Yeah, like a good place to begin at least with some level of a discontent within the group and Let's make sure that's the Guardians holiday special wasn't some throwaway useless thing like it's that was Actually pretty key to understand like why they're on nowhere why they own it everything like that Appreciate that consistency Yeah, and you can get away with I think not seeing it right probably Make sure that they you know that at the very least like it's it's not just it's Supplemental but not just completely throw away like they purchase nowhere from oh shit. I forget his name important character there But yeah, anyway, it was actually relevant and important. That's cool so you got Rocket and Nebula talking about who's gonna do what about quill something's gotta be done about him and During the conversation. She's like why are you on the ceiling? He said I want to see if these new gravity boots worked on a slope I don't know about anyone else, but I was just like That's how it works When something that's very oddly out of place gets cool like attention to Yeah, there's that's not the only one in this movie. They do a couple of standard writing setups, but fine I thought it was strange right so we're sort of panning around and craglin is trying to get use of his arrow to the point of Nailing like a sequence. He's got a hit like a series of targets in a row to as like I guess rudimentary system of trying to get a good score and he accidentally fires the arrow into Nebula's I mean heart It looks like obviously she got right in their chest. Yeah, she's like mostly cybernetic I think so it doesn't do the damage it would do to a normal person But I was still just like damn, dude, I could have been a normal person. This is very irresponsible But timeline wise I'm pretty sure Guardians 2 takes place in 2014, which means that it's been like 10 years and he still can't Oh shit, I didn't thought of that. Yeah Maybe he got like snapped but even then still like five years and he hasn't yeah Maybe it is really hard to use but just just something worth noting I guess Yeah, it doesn't feel like it's been that long since Guardians 2 but I guess it actually has the timeline is all very I mean, we probably know it better than the people right in the movies at this point I think Guardians takes Guardians 2 takes place like the same year as the first one. I think or close to that Yeah, you you have Cosmo's essentially been properly introduced now always Cosmo and the Christmas special I can't remember I've seen it and I don't remember it But I don't know I think Cosmo's neat Yeah Suits that can do telekinesis and has a Russian voice Or the dog has tell it is that the suit I thought let her talk audibly through the suit Oh, yeah, but she can do the telekinesis, right? Yeah I have no clue why that's the case, but you know She mentions Russian sent her into space with no intention of her coming back and then I guess she was picked up by someone somewhere and something happened She flew through a telekinesis cloud or something a telekinesis dilation Yeah Yeah, and so they discuss in what to do with quell and it's mentioned the possibility of Mantis making him feel better and she says like she wouldn't manipulate people's feelings like that Yeah, I wish she was consistent about that. Yeah, we'll get to that in about five hours That is one of the bigger problems I have We'll get there in time. He says I think Drax says you made me fall in love with my sock and she says but that was funny And you have a group getting confused as to whether or not they're talking about making him happy With touching him in another way So, you know shooting off few jokes already and I guess we'll get a broader view on it as we go But I kind of want to try and flag up whether or not you guys were finding this stuff funny or not as we go And if there's any discussion to be had about it Somewhat amusing definitely kind of hit and miss but I think a decent amount of the humor worked for me I'd say it was on par with the others in terms of most of the jokes worked, but some didn't I don't know how this happened, but I'm pretty sure for me It's either Ragnarok or infinity war with the funniest movies in the MCU Ragnarok is the funniest for me So it's so weird that infinity war the movie that's like famously the the one where they lose and is quite dramatic is like One of the ones with some of the best jokes I thought I mean that film is really funny and strange. They do they do a much better job of balancing tones than Most films in the MCU So That cuts then to we see the arrival of Adam Warlock He's heading to nowhere last time we saw him was the end credits from Guardians 2 correct. Yeah. Yeah So all we know At this point would be that maybe the sovereign have sent him to just get revenge at this point, right? But I don't think any other thing has been mentioned up to this point about any other reason he might be there Not that I can think of now. I can buy some line. I can buy that. He knows they're in nowhere I'm confused. Does he have a like a zeroing in thing on rocket. I Not that I'm aware of because he smashes right into rocket personally and I mean Just a small skip ahead. He is actually trying to kidnap rocket. We find out. Yeah Yeah, that's what I was like. I mean like he's he's a little critter. You know like yeah Strange Yeah, that should have not only is that an incredibly Dumb way to try and kidnap someone you just grab them and leave the way you came or something But you would yeah, you should be pulverized into a thousand tiny little pieces because he went through a bunch of walls and stuff That's another timeline thing too, right? Like Adam Warlock was activated at the end of Guardians 2 and he hasn't decided to bank on that Seems unusual, but if we go with the snapping then it's what five years we would say I Think yeah, I think they're in 2024 2025 now I want to said I have sympathy for any writer that's having to deal with all this because it's insane It's difficult. I still like we have to you know call a spade a spade with this like You have this this is what's happening and you don't I don't think there's any lines to account for why Adam's taken so long No There's also just when he smashes rocket through several walls and windows. I was like That's strange considering his goal Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that one's strange, but it'll get straight just soon Will it's just I just don't get it Adam Warlock is one of the most Controversial parts of the film. I think in terms of people being critical So, um, yeah, what can I say for now other than? Yeah, he smashes in and I'm not sure if it's meant to be a bit of a comedic beat Like rocket is sort of chill and he looks out the window sees him coming He just goes whoa, and they're just like smashes, but um And this is something I'm gonna flag a lot You see him smash him through those things. You're like is rocket fine. It's like yes rocket is fine He's absolutely fine. He's barely even like it's no scratching like okay, sure All right, that's weird. I would have expected I would expect it something more. Yeah But you know, it's okay All right. Yeah. All right, so Nebula and grabs like a jetpack thing and Basically operates as like the police of the area and she flies up to him and she says Like drop your weapons sort of thing Somehow Adam loses his grip on rocket. He has him in two hands and then he looks over at Star Lord and Somehow rocket manages to wrestle himself out now Should be known Adam Warlock is incredibly powerful in this film. I'm not even talking about this force Yeah, he's talking about Like what would we put in him on par with like like a superman Marvel Superman? Yeah Seems to be about that kind of That kind of power level Um And so like all I can really say to explain any of these things is that he's an idiot and that Is cannon It is. Yeah, he's kind of an incompetent buffoon. Yeah, he's like a child. He got taken out of his Birth pod too early was we learned so he's kind of not not quite all there yet which Was not I think what a lot of people wanted to see but obviously I'm okay with the idea in concept a Childlike person in the body of something like a superman And how does it go but that is the best I can do to explain why that would happen So, yeah, maybe I'll explain some of his decisions, but definitely definitely not all of them Yeah, well Rallying in and pulling him through the wall. That's just really stupid You think you think around it a lot of child brain people would understand that one and he does he doesn't talk like a child Talks like a pretty normal person like you could buy that he was his age from just the way that he talks like Thor kind of yeah The impression you get more so is just that he's he's not used to social cues or something not that he's like a child But um, they definitely say that that's what his like his issue is in fact It said that he's got more than that as an issue, but we don't get more specifics So something just came to mind to to not spoil anything though. There is a scene later in the movie that could kind of Explain his his actions when it came to rocket and lay his initial like tackling him through the wall Because he overcompensates later in the movie too Don't know if you guys without I don't agree. I would argue that instead of that support in this that that is another example of Like an inconsistency what he does in that scene is super retarded Not disagreeing with So Nebula shoots him and he just pretty much like she shoots him into wall and he gets back up he tackles here And then there's this shot He goes to punch her in the chest and they they show a shot of her like chest caving in and then he punches her face and like a jaw dislocates and there's sort of music to match and Especially when I think about it more as time goes on. It's just like I Never know how much I should care about that Like when Nebula gets parts of her disconnected or broken Take for example because I think this is spoiler free There's a part in this film where she is hitting the head and it dislocates her whole neck her head You're like falls over and then it connects back up and it's kind of like a badass moment But in that moment, right? We're supposed to be like yeah Nebula But in this moment, we're supposed to be like oh no Nebula like like like oh god like her chest is caved in She's getting she's getting fucked up and it feels strange to me I never quite know how I'm supposed to react. There's a specific example I'm gonna be talking about when we get to the the olgo scope of Nebula's injuries and I feel like I have to distinctly rely on the music and even then I get portrayed regularly as to what the state of affairs are Yeah It gets very very very very very confusing as to just what Nebula's health bar is if there is such a thing This movie was kind of stressing me out in that regard Like it was really it was really uneasy. I was really uneasy a lot of the time not really knowing what Like was gonna happen or what we were doing here where we were going So It struck me as what what's happening when you know, she gets momentarily Disabled and like parts of her get disconnected, but she's vulnerable until she can kind of Reassemble it's like she's weak for that moment not that like oh my god. Is this gonna kill her? That's just how it occurred for me Watching these scenes. Mm-hmm. I guess what I was trying to say is that this is treated like a very serious moment What Adam does to it, but it's we've seen that happen to her so many times that I was like She's fine right and then she is fine. I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, she's fine. Yeah, we all do Yeah, all right back to all right Yeah, cuz they do choir whenever people bring in choir and when someone's getting hurt I assume that we're in serious mode, you know Which happens Then Adam tears off Groot's head I Was not a huge because I'll be skipping around the movie I'm not gonna do every single thing that happens, but yes That is a moment that happens and yeah Groot jumps on him and like wraps himself around Adam and then they tussle and eventually he pulls Groot's head off and Groot's like a little he's like the little guy from the Thing he's kind of walks away on his little vines But yeah, if you had asked me would tearing off Groot's head mean the head would regrow the body I'd be like, I think so I assume so I've got not much to work on but yeah I guess we've got that confirmed now. We know that it's the head. That's the most important part. I assume Like you can't rip off the head and you have to Groot's you'd have just yeah I don't think the body would grow ahead and the head would grow body. Yeah. Yeah That makes some kind of intuitive sense So now we've got like three hits in a row of I'm wondering if this is all a nightmare and all the Guardians are dead now Like it was a sense of like, you know, wow the shock of you know, everything's pretty chill But this guy is just come in and fucked up, you know a whole bunch of them. It's like oh shit Which is kind of gonna I'll have to see what you guys think because I'm trying to there's always a line of this sort of stuff tone is super hard So I know that plenty people found this joke funny So I'll just ask you guys Raglan fires his arrow directly at Adam and it just bounces off and hits the floor. What did you think? Um, I didn't think it was funny. I Thought like he was gonna have a moment actually maybe Kind of do something to just I guess he did end up distracting them But I mean that seems like it's a really powerful weapon that arrow Extremely powerful in fact like it can it go through spaceships in the second one Is that what yandu uses it for I and he uses it to blow up the ship and he withstands Yeah, he does destroy a necrocraft in the first one as well So this is a thing do we know that he hit him like with the pointy part of the arrow to just kind of like well Yeah, I thought that's what happened I think it was I think it was just Adam was so tough or resilient or the arrow Wasn't strong enough. I thought I thought that the what they were trying to tell us is that Adam is super Duba-duba strong. It's just that you do have nebulous sword Can go through him so you think the arrow would be able to Considering how powerful it is, but as long as they don't Throw an arrow it's like, you know, he doesn't shoot it like he's a master Archer he just kind of it's like he threw it at him essentially. Yeah And I think you can maybe argue that he's not at full speed maybe Or something definitely not but I was gonna say they don't really contradict that anywhere anyway So it's mostly chill. It's definitely supposed to be funny Because then you have the girl next to me was like, oh god He's just like shut up because they don't want to get found and then Adam is like who threw that baby Which for me hit really weird I think this works for a whole bunch people the reason it doesn't quite for me is because I was like, oh shit I hope nebula is okay. Holy fuck. He ripped off group's head and then it's like Yeah, but we're having fun. It's like, oh, no, we're not. I wasn't having fun at that point I was worried when I have a fun. I'm I'm very very anxious And I think it's so strange that immediately after that He bursts into the room rocket aims his gun at him and then he shoots rocket and it does something to rocket that may as well Just say to this point brings him to near-death and the rest of the plot is gonna be about trying to save rockets life from this shot Which I don't have a huge problem with except for that. He just got tackled through several walls earlier Well and the fact that he just shot him why is he shooting him I guess we learned later on it's not a hypothetical Yeah Like why are you seeming to be so intent on killing rocket when your point here is to abduct him and bring him back? That's a good point. Yeah, I thought I was actually insane considering his his primary and very specific goal He and the thing is if he was successful here, you'd get brain death and by the time he gets that thing back to where it needs To be I don't know how useful that brain is gonna be Certainly not the the what what what the person wants. There's a bit of that way So very very very very strange choice, but also becomes very very serious And that's kind of what I'm getting at It's like we do this the funny bit and it sandwiched between our characters getting grievously injured Which I just don't know if it works for me Yeah, it doesn't work for me. It was the beginning of a long a long journey through tonal I felt like I was a pinball and a machine getting battered around a lot of the time watching this And and this was kind of the beginning of that I feel I It totally worked for me I didn't have any sort of any problem going back and forth between things that are Frightening and anxious and jokes especially when the jokes aren't like coming at the expense of the thing You were meant to be anxious about, you know, they're Unrelated, you know, like in this like there's an there's an example later where I think a Couple or maybe more than one example where the jokes like that seems actually kind of step on the dramatic moment You're trying to have do you think there's any conflict in presenting Adam as someone who's like I said grievously wounded three of the heroes to then also be like Who threw that at me? No, not at all not at all. It did for me What's what's the problem with that exactly Adam is kind of scary at first and then they do that joke and I was like Oh, what are we doing here? Well, how why can't he be physically intimidating but also kind of an aloof person? Um Is he it's less or maybe aloof is not the right word, but you know what I'm saying was less to do with whether or not That's a possibility anyone could tell a joke or be kind of funny It's just the whether or not you you'd say that because the tone tonal arguments are very very difficult To be I think definitive about it's definitely going to come down to the person But I don't know Exactly how I'm supposed to so would you say that the movie is trying to get me to understand that this guy is kind Of a kind of an idiot, but also be be afraid Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both right Because when you show me him taking out three of the guardians like that in a way that I'm wondering if they're dead And this is a nightmare that one of our characters is having it is you've already really you have you have planted water Watered grown and are now harvesting this emotion of unease intention that you're building up and then to have that just with him and Him in the arrow. It's really really weird Makes me very confused as to what you're trying to tell me Well, he's not exactly cracking a joke He's just he's reacting to someone like some sort of petty onlooker throwing like a like stick at him Basically, it's very very clearly a comedic moment Just not just because of the way that Adam reacts to it But because I know it's a comedic moment, but I don't I don't understand what the problem is with the comedic moment I Don't know what else to say Late it out pretty clear Well, I mean you thought you also said that like that this the film has planted the seeds somehow that maybe you're meant to think They have worked no, I didn't my analogy didn't end there Which is important, but I think that there's there's definitely a very very clear kind of vibe and What a kind of What's the word like a look I guess tone not to keep overusing it But there's a very clear tone of like peril danger potential death like infinity war kind of opening And to have this just kind of stuck in there When this moment for what it accomplishes whether it's being to make Adam seem I mean what what it's trying to accomplish is a joke and I think it's very very misplaced Okay, so other moments and other Guardians movies where there's peril and danger, but then there's a joke or a quip happening Right very close to it or amidst it. Those are are those also bad or is there something unique about this one? It depends on what specific when you're talking about yeah make a reference, okay Okay, so the part in Guardians 2 he just found out that Kurt Russell ego Sorry, he killed his mom and then there's you know He gets stabbed and then they come in with the ship and they knock him out and then immediately Oh God, what's the I don't remember the exact line But Gamora comes to rescue him and he says a little quip a little joke there I can't remember exactly I think she says something that relates to like you warned him that this is was a potential that happened And he says really I told you so now Well, that's it hold on Because I can't remember that one so Okay, so just what I need to hear right now like well I came back didn't I and he's like oh because there's an unspoken thing and they kind of are referencing that Definitely supposed to be sort of a comedic little callback. Yeah Who's that like so if similar to what you said, right that the The joke for Adam Would be as far as I'm considered direct conflict with his intimidation In the same way that if someone who was supposed to be dead through a stone at Thanos after he killed Loki and then he was like who threw that Baby and then carried on I would be like wow that was misplaced Why I don't quite understand that is some I mean like he's not the same character So he wouldn't call them a baby. This is as much as that's true We have no other information on Adam Warlock yet other than he's like Annihilated like I said done serious damage the way supposed to take seriously, but then there's a joke Yeah, and it's establishing. This is what this is part of us learning about who he is I don't understand why it when when would you say is a good example of a tonal mismatch? Okay, so it's not okay So I don't want to spoil too much but it has to do with a one-on-one conversation that quill has with Gamora outside of the the meat flesh base Uh-huh And I think it's because they they have a dramatic moment that perhaps we would want to explore and it's interrupted by a joke That doesn't especially make sense. That's a big part of it So your reasoning for that mismatch would be the joke doesn't make sense part and that it interrupts It interrupts a dramatic moment that like we don't let it breathe We don't let them actually finish their conversation or have that moment because it's interrupted and especially because it's interrupted in a way That doesn't make sense. Oh, could one not argue that that moment is continued later Not in that scene. I mean, yeah, it's it's continued in the arc over the entire movie for sure Yeah, cuz I guess I was looking for more so example where you would can see well Basically the criticism that myself and I assume rags has is is there any other moment in the film that you would say does Have that problem and then I just want to figure out where you would draw the line Um, I well, I don't think that this film is a total mess the way you guys do I think there are a couple moments where I think the jokes get in the way of a dramatic moment But especially if my big problem with the one I referenced is It's especially bad because the joke doesn't make sense I'd actually don't know if I can think of any examples in this movie that I that The ping-ponging back and forth between humorous things and Scary things doesn't work because for the most part I I don't think that the movie is Making light of or making fun of the dramatic beats by undermining them or pulling the rug out from under them Which is a lot more in other phase four. Oh They use an example from like in phase four then I Don't have one fresh on the mind, but I you know there I'm trying to think of like a doctor strange two ones got to be You know that Thanos when I gave would you have said that would be bad if that had happened Well, if he if Thanos himself was like, uh, baby, that just doesn't seem in character for him But I don't I don't mind the idea of a kind of humorous moment amidst Thanos being scary I don't Because I think aren't there a couple of those I don't member off top of my head But I don't I do feel like that there are moments with Thanos that are mildly amusing If we're going like I think infinity will heal like toy with his opponents a little bit I'm trying to think of you do have I think Loki fucks with them a little bit I'm trying to remember the dialogue, but yeah Here's an example where I think the the joke they want to have undermines the potential dramas with Modak in Quantum media when he dies You know, they have this dramatic moment and then the joke is kind of like how this stupid idiot, you know It's undermining the dramatic beat they had briefly for a moment. It's not so much. It doesn't bother me that we switch back and forth between frightening tense Scary moments and funny moments because we've done that in all the Guardians movies so far. This one just has the most Frightening and horrific moments. I wouldn't want to argue that we can do it because it's been done before I would rather argue that we can do it because it's like good craft for writing, right because there are Only like ping-pongy things that I do think work, but then there are ones that I obviously don't think we're One of the ones I'm unclear as to why you think like how you would decide which ones don't work This movie I feel when he says like who threw that baby that I am relaxed now I can calm back down because we're actually having a little bit of fun Then he steps through the door and shoots rocket and he's like coughing up blood And I was like oh fucking hell we're right back up to the tense part again Cuz like we were before if you just chopped that out It would have ran completely like through line is as complete normal But to drop in like his bit with craglin that is supposed to be interpreted as funny as opposed to you could even have played That dramatic he fires it it bounces off and he's just fucking terrified and cow is yeah And he's trying to hide from Adam and he's running You know retreating now Kind of frantically as he dodges like a laser beam or the building almost falls on top of him or something Well, it still is terrifying for them the ones in hiding. I think It's a joke it isn't because I they're making a joke of it when who says it's a joke When the film says that they're doing a joke by yeah, but he's there But the characters are still in danger and they're still tense only for the purposes of delivering a joke No, because the scene is still tense for them Yeah, but it's all couched underneath the construction of that scene being this is a moment of levity and joke and we're having fun Well, it's a joke for the audience was not joke for the characters So if yeah, well, I'm the I'm the audience and Hold on You can have instances where a joke like a situation is not humorous for the characters But like the audience member can and will still find it funny and they were meant to find it funny Yeah This whole time about how I think it's a bad it's a bad swapping of tones In terms of addressing the point Yes, obviously, I know that yes and a film can be funny to an audience But it can be scary for the people in the universe and I was talking about how the characters in the scene are still frightening It's like no one in the scene is not still frightened. But what's happening? I don't understand quite why this makes you go. Oh, I can calm down and relax now Like everyone all the characters are still scared. It didn't I didn't have that Literally were as they were laughing at the scene Yeah, I mean, I don't Well, so but if what's what's the limit on that like Could Adam like joke joke actually undermines the tension in the story. Well, so okay Just genuine question. Could Adam pull out a unicycle start juggling balls and go and do do do do As long as everyone's afraid of him. Is that still solid? No, because it doesn't make sense for this character. What if it did? If it did then that could work it'd be a bizarre choice, but I see I'm having a hard time imagining how that would Make sense with this I mean like it's it's um, I Think it's very much unsuitable because of the fact that it like can imply a sense of chill and that this guy is actually Kind of possibly fun and funny But it's like well, no, no, no, we're not done yet The scene actually has the most harrowing thing to come. It's like, ah, I think it's perfect Do you think it was total whiplash at the beginning of Infinity War though? like when Thor cracked the joke about Loki being a bad brother because he had the Tesseract Yeah, I think that actually comes close. It's you gotta be so careful in that scene since it's like super duper dark Yeah, I don't like two minutes after that joke is said I would actually even argue it's close to screwing with Thor's character Like I don't think you'd be concerned with making fucking jokes in a situation where everyone's been killed Well, then that's the criticism for me I don't have a problem with the fact that we do humor and then we do scary things soon after it Well, this is I Mean, yeah, I think that it just yeah, I think it's a really poor choice of people saying I fucking straw man cap I give hypothetical. It's not a straw man It's a different I'm not actually I'm not I thought they were talking that I was straw manning So I'm really not sure It's being accused of straw manning, but I don't think anyone is so far. I think we end cap I'm not sure about movies in it, but we're happy to entertain the most extreme of hypotheticals I find them very fun. Oh be prepared for that early game I don't I don't have a problem entertaining the like the unicycle hypothetical It's yeah, I just have a hard time picturing a scenario in which that would be in character for him No, yeah, no, I guess I think what I'm trying to say is like even if he were a literal like space clown And that's him powering up his powers I would be like we need to change this like I understand you can justify it in the script But we need to change this like it I'm not sure about that. I mean I can understand The potential for that, but I could also understand the potential of like this is if you imagine He's a goofy space clown character like if he really was like toying with his victims So to speak if that was perfectly in character for him, and he was doing silly goofy shit I think there's value to be derived from that in the in the juggling of the fact that this is juggling ha ha because clown in the juggling of Tension and horror as well as goopy silliness Someone asked how would I have handled the scene then if he hits him with the arrow? What do I what do I have him say what I haven't do and I think you can actually edit it So that it would be the scene that I would probably want which is he looks over where craglin kind of is craglin Just fucking cow is and then he carries on because he's got a job to do doesn't like stop to find out who fired that thing Or what it was he just keeps moving? Yeah, we see his face Where it was once confident now it turns into you know is the sort of expression drops and You know we have Adam look over and then you know craglin's already taken cover behind some uh, you know behind something I Also didn't even laugh during that so even its intent of being a joke didn't even work for me and It's consistent with his character throughout the rest of the movie. I feel but all the same like when When he's stabbed not much longer after this like his reaction to that is enough to inform me of what his character Is gonna be like the rest of the movie so like I could have just eliminated this all together What do you mean? Oh, do you mean like you wouldn't have had a minute or? Sorry, you broke up. I couldn't hear you when you say you could have eliminated it all together Do you mean you wouldn't have had it all in the movie yourself or? Yeah, like that the joke itself like the arrows the arrow hitting him is fine And I would have just had him brush it off and keep walking. Oh, you're saying is a way to start It's taken care of with the stab anyway Yes, and that the joke wasn't funny enough to save anyway I understand. Yeah, cuz when yeah, cuz when he gets stabbed by nebula his reaction It like that was a great introduction of what his character What his personality is gonna be like like his shock was fantastic there. I really liked that part So this I like that part too, but I wonder is it establishing the same thing that this little moment is also establishing No, but I think it's a good setup into what you're gonna get later on like the when he's stabbed by nebula and He's his pure shock by it and his actual delivery like the dialogue that they write for him is like I feel like that's a good introduction to his character, and then we can get into the goofiness as it goes like it It's a good setup into the goofiness later on I didn't need the first thing that comes out of his mouth to be a goofy line like this See I I have no problem with the joke. First of all, I found the joke funny So if you didn't find it funny, obviously, it's not gonna work for you It would be better if it was cut no problem there I don't mind the ping-ponging back and forth with tones one of the reasons I wanted to focus so much on this now is because this is I assume going to be a criticism throughout and I and I think I Wanted to focus on it now because I don't I really don't see any problem with going back and forth between these things So long as they're not Undermining each other in a like in a literal sense like that We're not making a joke of quills feelings in certain scenes yada yada things of that nature or you know We're not making him. We're not making this character because he's still threatening, right? Obviously, but the we're not making him less threatening with this joke and for better for worse I have a lot of problems with his character as we'll get into but they sort of goofy aloofness is part of what's being established and I think It's important to a degree I think I'm inclined to agree that the joke wasn't funny enough to keep as well Like as an additional thing, but that's gonna get real hard to like we're not gonna get very far on that as it Let's just say I find it funny. I didn't find it funny. That's probably as far as it goes Someone was asking as well. How come the Thor one doesn't cross the line but cuts close I'd have to rewatch it and I'd have to Remember if Thor is like this is after he's been beaten up already So I don't know if he's there's an argument to be made that he's a little bit I don't I want to use the word delirious, but not Not straightforward thinking I would need to like check it out to see if there's any arguments to be made for that But like I said, it would be something that I Would half consider to be something that I've kind of think it's inappropriate Considering everything that he's going through at that moment. He's not like I mean that that kind of that kind of gets changed as time goes on right cuz Or they kind of turn him into a clown, but I think that's before that The argument would be made that he would have taken it more seriously even with Ragnarok I don't think he's the kind of person that just Fucks around with everything no matter what but when you get post love and thunder. I'd say it's it's to be expected at that point How do how do you feel about the nah those foundations are gone joke? I've found it funny, but I think I completely agree with everyone's criticism on it. I can't really defend it It's as God being destroyed should be treated with a hell of a lot more dignity than that Agree, yeah Like I said, whether or not I find it funny. I wonder sometimes should be irrelevant or not. I'm not sure it's Yeah, that's why I'm more focusing on the the tonal whiplash question to see if we can come to sort of any meaningful Mm-hmm any meaningful standard that isn't all Preference this is it's a tough conversation Whether or not something tonally matches I think if you know, sometimes the best information you could even do is like run a poll because we just can't get much further than that but James Gunn, Tiger Waititi even Joss Whedon and even Quinn and Tarantino like that a lot of them play very hardcore with switching tones quickly I think it's a high-risk high-reward sort of thing. Yeah, and yeah Um works works Yeah, he shoots rocket then Star Lord starts shooting him and Drax grabs him and says I think pick on someone your own size and we'll say it was nice to see Drax Like fuck up, but fuck him up a little bit before Yeah, I like to see Drax Having use beyond what I think is unfortunately his fate as a result of other films Yeah the goofy guy who's kind of um Who's he's so literal that he can you know like he's I'm not even I feel like I can I'm struggling now to even like really pin down who I think he is anymore as I was trying to explain that So that's definitely one of the things I don't like about this movie But I like did that did that process begin earlier for you guys in terms of I actually would go as far as saying Genesis this might be guardians too. They really crank up how funny he is. Yeah, and he is really But yeah, the thing is in the first film he is really funny as well But he's also taken really seriously because we've got like a Core drama there that's propelling him forward Which is the Ronan, you know killing this family and that's like a motivation for him And the more that we moved away from guardians one the less that that has been addressed It's it doesn't feel like we're moving past it. It feels like we've we're forgetting it, you know as time goes on We're sort of forgetting that Um, obviously there's you know stuff relating to that here that we can talk about later Then by this point it's like yeah It was nice to actually see him kind of taken seriously to some extent when it feels like Especially by the time that we're getting like infinity war and end game This film, you know, uh, his introduction is almost Terrifying in terms of like how people will see him He's like he's a big buff knife wielding psychopath and he shouts and you're like, okay But then he says some stuff that's kind of like that's actually hilarious By the end of the movie and I think this best illustrated when he kills Uh, the the guy when he pulls when he says finger to the throat means death after killing him Um, yeah, remember Peter's reaction is like, okay Like it feels like man, you're a fucking threat, but luckily you're on our side Um and that was kind of Drax and then by the time you've completed the second movie He's actually kind of super lovable and fun And then in infinity war, he's cracking loads of jokes and that's just become Drax's thing. He's the funny one And I mean, you know, of course like infinity wards, you know worth noting That's a film that obviously has to balance a lot of characters That need time with Thanos, but remember like the end of guardians one Um Drax basically concludes that uh, his iron needs to be directed at Thanos that like Thanos is ultimately responsible for his family death And we just we never really got anything for that Um, nope All right, then so yeah, uh rocket is like he's bloodied where he's been shot. He's uh, like gasping for air mantis is You know screaming for help for him and I'd say the the shots give you a distinct sense like oh, shit This this matters. This is not like a an energy blast where they get back up Which um, I think that It's not even just guardians. It's just like the mcu like when someone gets hit with energy blast I just never know how it's gonna turn out until I see them after it. Yeah Yeah, it's like getting shot in the chest in general or someplace or like like what is this gun do is it I gotta figure out. I don't know what this means yet. It's not good So whatever the ride it really needs it to be Given moment of this. Yeah, are we stunned or shocked or is it what's what's going on But yeah, I mean it's pretty clear at this point. They're here's in trouble Which uh, is I guess different from like a level of inconsistency in terms of how Much damage people can take uh as the film goes on Oh, yeah But as was mentioned uh adam does eventually Sort of beat drax and as he's punching him in the face over and over nebula gets the uh stab in his back That I thought went through his heart um, I don't know if If you to kill adam warlock, you need to stab him in his brain or brain and heart. I don't know Yeah, he's pretty strong. It doesn't kill him It just stuns him and there is a sense for me that like with someone who's just done this to all of them That they should really make sure he's dead Um But they don't Yeah, they don't do that later in the movie as well Nope There seems to be an aversion to like it's it's that trope that like for whatever reason just won't die where like Faceless henchmen. Oh, we should definitely kill those but the main big bad threat now It would be we would be bad if we killed them. Yeah, we'll be blowing apart disintegrating bisecting Yeah, just throwing apart enemies later in the movie. Yeah, the nameless ones that we can chop up But yeah, but the one who actually poses the greatest threat. No one who nearly killed rocket Yeah, yeah This is a trope that I am so sick of really wish it would go away Especially for the guardians, you know, because they've always been The most or perhaps, you know, among the most morally gray of the mcu protagonists No hesitation with killing people Yeah, exactly. Uh, so I didn't like that Um Then they give us like a tutorial on a new mechanic that's introduced and then they show The development of it, right? So, um adam broke Uh Mantis's arm And so she wraps this device around it and presses like go and it fixes it right back up this this med kit device Basically, the just it'll repair your body to whatever it I guess standard should be And um, I think it's very purposeful They show us that so that when they unwrap one and put one on rocket we can understand like oh, so they're gonna heal him but I think I don't know if anyone's gonna agree with this or not, but I think This is catastrophic to introduce something That good after the events of stuff like infinity war and end game I agree. Yep. It's an instant like it's an instant save quick. Yep It's incredible. It's incredible. Yeah, it's amazing technology and they need to take it to earth or like any planets where People don't have this kind of technology. They need to share it Yeah, because we see it instantly fix the broken arm like instantly We see it. I guess it's implied that it will save rocket from taking this laser beam shot Uh, you should yeah, you should always have these things handy. They're pretty Pretty good to have around you do actually see adam uses one for his uh his wound as well Which um, I'm guessing these must be a very new innovation in the marvel world I just they're the kind of innovation you don't make You don't want to do that. Well, it's just gonna make the world building insanely like complicated from now on Yeah, it's like using a helicopter and turns her to the king And then of course there is you know Like man, you got to share that around you got to make sure that like, you know, earth gets it It's not even yeah, because as much as you could be like, oh, that's typically but it should be every planet, of course Yeah, you might be like, well, you know, who knows what the logistics and distributional is. Yeah, but you've got to address it You have to you well, I mean to even have star lord, which this they wouldn't even do this But if star lord was like, um, these things work, uh, they're already sorting them out for earth or whatever You know, like like there's already Well, just some throwaway line that this is a new Technology and they're cycling it around the galaxy right now. It's a it's amazing stuff You know that it's not going to be something that will be remembered or accounted for in in a light of films Yeah, and it's not even like you can't do that to other writers. It's so unfair like uh, we're already We're gonna get there with another thing that pops up too. That's even more important Yeah, because yeah, this they're obviously gonna be doing mean stuff They're gonna be doing stuff with it in this film Like, you know, james gets to introduce it and play with it as he wishes But everyone else will suffer miserably from this introduction It's an hell it's a and it's a really really hard thing to account for and it makes stakes Like, oh Makes it tough when you have these well, and i'm assuming it's supposed to be the reason why a lot of things can happen in This film that you'd think have more dire consequences, but turns out they don't Which uh, yeah, not not a fan of that typically well like could they possibly to rhodi to fix his spine? I mean he's already fine at this point. Yeah, I don't wear the robot legs. Yeah, you wouldn't have to I think he does still have to wear the does he still have to wear the robot last time we saw him I think was falcon and soldier and you It was a complimentary page, right? Yeah, you could see them through his trousers. All right, all right Wow, but as you pointed out like yeah, just give it to him plop it on as imagine though Like decades and then he finds out and he's like you never told me about this. They're like Well, you know I mean, it's it's the same problem that Wakanda has As a society is that they've got like this incredible tech That could like save lives and it doesn't get shared Because the reality of course It's not that the character is supposed to be written as selfish all the civilizations It's supposed to be the Well, it is that their eyes are just not dealing with this beyond the scope that they want to deal with it We want to use right now like to help us with plotting without realizing the massive implications It's just Star Trek dodged a lot of bullets with a prime directive. Um, yeah It uh It's handy. It's really handy to have that around Doesn't doesn't star lord like rip a bunch open out of a drawer and they're just a bunch of them too Yeah, they look common as hell. Yeah, there's no scarcity They're really cheap, I guess Oh, you don't even want to answer the questions of weight. Does this cure cancer? Can this cure like anything and then like how does it cure it and then can we Come on. Why would you introduce it? Why do you do this? Even if it is, you know, it purely fixes like broken arms or broken ribs. That's still like incredible Yeah, no, it is absolutely uh So, um, they pop one on rocket activate it and he starts getting frazzled And they're like, oh shit. What's going on in uh nebula sees it and um, she says get it off him now And so my question at that point was just is she doing that in general? Or does she know what's happening and like does she recognize what's happening? Or I don't think she has any information that they don't at that point I think she's I think she's just saying Or another ride he's getting electrocuted probably worth while to take it off Um Then we get uh, the I mean the first flashback is when you get selected right at the beginning This would be the second flashback where He's been experimented on and this is initial throwing into his cage and he meets up with uh three other characters This one's pretty quick. Um The the main thing you learn in this flashback is just that they're a bunch of other experimented on animals They're all very friendly Yeah, they're gonna look after him Back to the present they discovered that's all that's all we're gonna say about that Uh for now. Yeah, probably Okay Delve into all of that like all in one go the big like flashbacks. That's almost what I'm tempted to or When we get to uh, there's there's certain flashbacks in particular that uh, I'd want to know Well, there's anything uh cap wants to say about it. That's not stuff that we get later. I'm fine with that I really like the way this scene is handled. I really like it's very Effective emotionally. I really like it. I like his his first words. I like them helping them out There's there's some I really like the way all the flashback stuff is shot because there's a sort of visual language That's different from the rest of the movie We get a lot more close like really tight close-up detail shots of like rocket's eyes and stuff like that It's very interesting. It like that the way the film kind of Visually grounds us in his perspective in the way that it never really did before in terms of I get what you mean in terms of um They uh, there's a lot of shots that uh emphasize perspective Particularly that here's a small little critter in this big crazy world And I guess like the thing that would be worth highlighting in terms of the contrast there would like character well, not that it's it's um This horrible situation where these other critters are able to still like bring some kind of um Uh joy level of safety. Yeah, and friendship to uh to rocket. So that's that's good. I mean I I like all of those scenes So yeah, there's uh, there's particular moments that are really worth highlighting that come later Yeah, uh, it's just in case it wasn't sort of probably understood by anybody who hasn't seen this film It's like this I think he's like a baby raccoon at that point, right? He's pretty damn young pretty young And uh, obviously been given that I don't I don't know how exactly it works in terms of been given like sapiens or sentience or whatever, but um Obviously he can talk now and he's just had all of his parts like taken out moved around replaced and he's just been tossed into a cage So in terms of experiences, that's going to be one of the worst you could possibly imagine You know, he's the yeah, and he's absolutely terrified The the area on his head where he just had I guess the new brain inserted You know, it looks pretty raw still and you can see the stitching We get some like close-up kind of body horror adjacent shots. Yeah. Yeah, very striking and powerful Because it's uh, I think it's um In terms in terms of like getting backstory for rocket what we've had in all of the the prior films is like We've gotten little glimpses and hints as to his backstory and how it informs his character But this is like this is one where really sort of I would say that there's like a lot of setup in the earlier films of like laying the groundwork for the backstory because I remember that there was like the scene in the prison when um As they're getting put in the prison and uh, peter looks at rocket and sees that he's got like a bunch of these like metallic like it's like pads like Uh, like inserted into his back um, it doesn't look like it's very uh Looks like it kind of hurts. Um, and it's just you know What what is to be inferred from that and of course like the fact that he knows what a raccoon is in Uh, rocket is like very wow by the time he gets to two. He's like very vehement that he's not a raccoon um It's just yeah, there's like a lot of the groundwork has been laid in the prior films for uh To to finally get like a full exploration of his past Which um, I mean i'm all for because rocket. I really like rocket Same always have He's like he's like one of the few characters I think a sketch like infinity war and endgame in a pretty good place Barring you know like the general criticism broad plans that they concoct in that film Like he gets a lot of good stuff like throughout Uh, and yeah, feel free to you know throw in extra pros and cons and just comments because obviously mine are exhaustive but not Not entirely exhaustive. I guess I should just say they're long. They're not exhaustive I wonder if if you breeze past it because you didn't have any problems with it or whether you don't like it That's what i'm curious about No, I think it's good though. I'd want to shelve a conversation for later as to Manipulation through cute animals. I'm not going to reveal on my position on that is but we can get there later Correct one So, um, we come back to the present and nebula is like plugged into Rocket and she's uh figuring out what's happening. She says It's a kill switch a device that's set to destruct if anyone goes poking around inside him or even if we use the med packs So question one. Um, why is he alive? Uh, oh like why does the kill switch have like this delayed timer? Well, why is the kill switch not kill switching? uh I Actually, I was about to try and Because the best argument that I could imagine in favor of that is well What if there's like some mistake or something and like the person who put it in there doesn't you know Like they want like an opportunity to fix it But the problem is it almost defeats the purpose of like having a kill switch in the first place Of the goal is to prevent people from doing it because like in the time that it takes between, you know Them needing to like how much time they have Um, that's a that's enough time, right? Like if somebody If somebody wanted to figure out how rocket works, that's like enough time for them to So this is the thing I think That if we had no additional information, I might be able to make a defense of this but with everything we know, I can't Um, first of all calling it a kill switch Is really bad for this because that means yeah a slow acting poison that's been released into I don't think that's what it is I say no, I know it's not what it's that that's how it acts mechanically. No, not even that I think that what they're trying to tell us has happened is they nearly activated the kill switch And now he's just dealing with the regular wound he had Which is a shot to the chest and he's bleeding and they need to save him That's why at one point in the film liquid goes into his lungs because it's not getting the attention he needs Um, oh What i'm trying to highlight is why is it called a kill switch and why considering the purpose of this Device within him as it not killed him. It should kill him They're lucky as hell that it didn't They are lucky as hell that it didn't I don't know if it makes sense to call it a kill switch What I sort of interpreted it as is something that's like hey stop trying to dig around in there You know what I mean like because that's what it essentially does It starts electrocuting them and then they take it off and it stops the thing She specifically describes it as it's set to destruct if anyone was to go poking around inside him or use a med kit Yeah, is it like uh like it's it's almost like it has two modes like a code yellow and then Then it activates afterwards I wish they described it that way Yeah, because the way she describes it makes no sense because how it actually seems to act is like a warning like hey It'll it'll like because I don't know if it really makes a whole lot of sense to like kill him to prevent people from poking around in there Because if he's dead still poke around then they can still poke around Well, the irony of that is that he believes that if you were to kill rocket that he becomes useless So it's like so what the fuck's out of wool? I'll do it Yeah, well It's definitely out of more luck is being an idiot about this and not in a way that feels super justified He shouldn't be trying to kill him, but I think there's some justification for the fact that he needs him alive Um in terms of studying his brain. I I definitely understand. Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely Utility to him staying alive, but it's just that's the problem like you know, the kill switch doesn't make any sense If you need a good job with all of these things that you've got in place so then What I found interesting thinking about this was Is he would it do this with any medication or is it a particular level of medication? It takes an agile things that was strange You'd think that this magic lifesaving med pack would be something that specifically does not trigger the kill switch Oh, I would actually argue the it doesn't make like this this med kit is new tech We've not seen this shit ever before yet rockets kill switch was in stores Like a bazillion years ago or whatever Yeah, so it probably should be income or would that be the argument the incompatibility is what's causing a problem I don't think I can understand what's going on here entirely I think the i'm trying to be as reasonable as possible, but let's say, you know painkiller It's like you can you can have a painkiller. It's like okay injection Uh, I think you could have an injection It's like could you have an x-ray? It's like well, I think he can have scan he's had scans so I'm assuming he can have scans It's like it seems to be like trying to repair the cyber the cybernetic parts of his internal organs themselves Is what because that's what seems to be affected by the blast most Prominently and so trying to fix that trying to dig around into that is what causes the problem Yeah, like it looks like well from what we see that there's an attachment to his heart that's damaged and I'm guessing the It could have they could have just written it so the med kit isn't sufficient because of his cybernetics Like it can heal I it's such an easy fix to just like it's it can't fix the problem because you need an engineer not a doctor Or something like that like we need to find out We get a manufacturer from the company or we need to have someone who has what is it? What does it mean? What does it mean to run repairs on the product of a genetic like a crazy experiment not like a Because he like it, you know, he's a raccoon, but he's also not a raccoon. He's got a bunch of other mechanical patients in there How does it account for those augmentations like Because of course like a universal health pack that's going to work for everybody all the time Like that already is like a bit of a stretch, but then trying to apply it like, you know partially Well, no, it's cybernetic organism Um to some extent. Yeah That that seems like an easy fix. Yeah, that's that seems like a I don't know why yeah That seems like a good option. They should have thought about Rocket would not know about this right because he would have had to have told them otherwise Uh, well, I think that they they uh, they signal a similar thing later about him not mentioning any of this And I could imagine that that extends to maybe he knew about this Uh and didn't mention anything about it I don't think that would be a character for him to not mention. He has a kill switch So don't use med packs on me if I'm in danger. Yeah, because he would have said yeah, if any of you dummies You know use a med pack on me. It'll hurt and you'll use invested in uh and staying alive Um, yeah, I would say that overthrow because if they said, oh, how did that happen? He's like, I ain't telling you shit. Just don't use a med kit on me Because it's just yeah, that sounds like he just thought yeah, just it messes up with my cybernetics my cybernetics so um Yeah, not a fan of pretty much anything to do with this and I think that they could have done it in a way better way like for example, what we just suggested just destroys the cybernetics inside to a degree that they need his blueprints and uh, you know information on how to repair a creature like him Especially if you you know because bull established later that there's something Very unique about um, let's say his maker's technology You know, it's it's not all like there's the mechanical aspect of it too, but there's there's a weird marriage of like bio like like actual like Organic growth and cybernetics combined. He's a cyborg There's it's not it wouldn't be hard for me to believe that they need This the specific information from his creator Yeah, and that prompts I think that would be the way to go because they still have to do the things that they need To do to get it. It's still a comp. They still if you want to send them on this Path, essentially That's the way to do it. They still have to do all these things uh, there's a quote from Nebula that I found curious. She says apparently someone considers him prior Propriety technop there proprietary technology and uh, they sent that golden lunatic to get him Is that something she read from his Biometrics or something she's just Assumed I think she's just assumed it. Do you think that's a little strange considering Adam shot him? That's gotta be a scratch. Yeah, that's a leap. Yeah. I don't yeah, I feel like that's uh That's the right to don't realizing how much Nebula would know at this point If he was actually more consistent about trying to kidnap rocket and get away and they still managed to stop them I could see her assuming that but So much flows downstream from Adam just seemingly wanting to kill him Nebula red. Yeah Can't just assume that cybernetics are people's property. It's kind of racist So, um, they need a passkey to install before they can use the medkit on him And the only person that they assume will have it will be in or go as part of or go corp Which is the I guess the company that's behind making creatures like rocket at this point. That's all we know Um, they say they'll have records and we may uh We'll have a way to override the switch at that point You have um, you know, they're not going to give us that information and it says that's why we're going to break in I thought it was strange that we assumed that they are just going to not give you the information Um, I just does the company have a reputation I mean shouldn't that be in the conversation if it does it should have a lot, right? Especially learning about our villain Yeah, um, but I I Remembered I feel like there was a line later that references that That uh, once they figure out, you know big bad of the film I vaguely work recall that Yeah, they said that orgo corp was uh, owned by um our primary antagonist, I believe as like a shell company Yeah, I I recall. Yeah, like shell company. That's yeah, that that sounds familiar I don't think it's totally unreasonable to assume that they wouldn't just hand it over Um, I wonder if it's just a possibility that should be considered considering the alternative I'm possibly leveraging the profile of the guardians as well as you know, multiple heroes It was something that our rocket said in two like two time galaxy savers, you know, we can be pumping up our prices. That's fair Um, and then I would I would definitely would have preferred that to some of what they do in terms of this, uh, Heist we'll call it. Oh, we're almost there You know Like you can get around it by just having a line acknowledge that like, you know Should we even try asking for it in that you literally just have a character say you know orgo corp Like you know, you know how they work like oh shit Um, yeah, and so they say we're gonna break in and kill anyone who gets in our way He says we're not killing anyone just kill a few people. No people kill one guy one stupid guy No one loves this is now you're making it sad I saw that joking the trailer and I liked it. Yeah, I like that joke. Yeah It doesn't feel like flanderized Dracks I feel it it wrote right in from a serious scene of like we're gonna do anything We can't to save rocket and there's a reminder of like when we're not gonna just we're not gonna kill everybody He's like, okay fine, but we're gonna kill sub. You know that it I think that yeah moves from serious into comedic very smoothly Yes, uh, I agree Yeah, and then I thought it was uh, it's like I have the coordinates for all go corp I have a contact near there. Hopefully they could get us it. He's like, all right Maybe I should wait until we talk more about that Um, the reveal Yeah, and so then we get our first villain scene introducing the high evolutionary who um The sovereign is not only working for but has been created by which I don't think there was any reference to that prior to now, right? Not that I don't I don't think so. I can't remember if there was maybe a throwaway line about how they were created by somebody, but Um, I would say only the case now My assumption is that was not the idea when they were making Guardians 2 but the you know, you can fit it in you just got a You know Sand out the edges a little bit, which I don't think they do quite so well here Uh, there's one question that should come to mind immediately if the sovereign are an ever high evolutionary creation that we're For him. Anyone think of what it might be? Um, why didn't they just grab him and Guardians 2 when he was there or alert him? Yeah Do they know that he's looking for a rocket? He is explicit. I don't know why james gun wrote it this way He's explicit that he's like annoyed at them for not having alerted him about this for years Yeah, that's right. I then thought That doesn't even make sense because fucking rocket raccoon and the guardians are famous As a high profile. Yeah And It would be it would be I mean it has to be right knowledge that they're on nowhere And that presumably they'd been there for a while at this point So I wasn't too happy with that. I was like, uh, this is I guess this gets into wheel building Had a little bit of character. It's just um, it's just not elegant at all. It's very stapled in and It could have tried a little bit harder Um I I would even submit that the gets it's better if you had just said I had no fucking clue the odds of you crossing paths with No p1. I forget the full name He doesn't call him rocket or raccoon or anything Um, just yeah, just to imply like it's insane that you guys cross paths with him for whatever you needed And like if only I fucking know now I we gotta capture him then I would have preferred that than him being like You didn't tell me And then she doesn't address that she's just like It's like It's a hard one to address because it's just it's just it's just not good. I guess it's just not not a good, uh, not not great Um, so yeah, uh He's complaining that the kind of shit. He says like they're aesthetically. They're an Aesthetic experiment. They're beautiful numbskulls with egos that have run wild And that um, wait, sorry I'm still thinking about because remember they tried to kill like rocket after he stole their batteries So What do you say that for you? I thought that that's why adam warlock was heading to them at the beginning I thought it was going to be like i'm still fucking with you for the batteries thing But it had nothing to do with that I thought that that was what was being set up in that post credit scene for two was that they want to get revenge And but but like they were gonna they were gonna kill the guardians So could you like that would have been the end of the sovereign if they had succeeded If you know if this film's events play out it'd be like wait you killed rocket And that and that's like hugely disruptive for the high evolutionary. Oh, yeah, he would have wiped him out anyway probably so Well, it's just that destroys everything for him. It's like a big thing that he's so damn Geez, all right So he says um You know and the he's commenting on how they're incompetent He's like and this one was meant to be the warlock the apogee of your people and she says you removed him too early He's still a child and he says oh there's something wrong with him even outside all of that Don't know exactly what he's referring to But you know, it's it's really up to you in terms of like personality traits. Adam Warlock is a strange person in this film He's very strange Yeah, I don't know what that's meant to mean Is he just calling him is he just calling him a retard without saying it? Maybe Um, and yeah, he says so find find rocket and return him or I will destroy your civilization as is my right as your maker Um, and then he says toodaloo I'm I guess meant to give you a impression the high evolutionary is a little Little kooky bit of a yeah, little power nuts Yes You could say um So, yeah, uh, that's the we now have that faction and then you have him Uh, the high evolutionary is like how do you survive all these years and the he's like subordinates someone who says um He's very clever always very clever and he says I want his brain And this is moment where he says is that the only reason you want him? And he's like sad and they look at each other like scared and I was just like I assume at this point They've grasped that uh, their boss is not a fucking nice person. I'm surprised that that's surprising. Yeah Um, and I don't know it lines up perfectly when you consider the flashbacks Like you only want him for his brain. It's like, yeah, just like he did 10 years ago exactly Is the implication that there's a sort of personal grudge or vendetta there? Because he did like, uh, I mean, yeah Do something to him. Oh, no. Oh, are you saying that they're surprised? He doesn't want to Get like revenge like like fuck him up further. I'm not exactly sure what what they're saying in this scene I had forgotten that could work. Um, I think yeah, I think that can that could work It's definitely it can't be that they're surprised that he only wants rocket for his brain In a sense of study because that's what you want. Well, and it feeds into like Easily fit into a core character motivation that like this guy like that he that you know The thing that happened like that enabled, you know rocket Be on his own like that that uh That that could make him really pissed off specifically like angry more so than just you know frustrated He seems a bit angry as a yes character I like the uh, I like the performance. Oh, he's great. I really think I think he's great. Yeah, big fan I I there is something that he's What was that if only he could have been Kang? Maybe um I don't mind joining the mages as Kang. I just think his writing is terrible Yeah Like the whole professional clown thing was stupid to say but I think mages is capable of giving us a good Kang It's just all this great. Oh, he was really good in creed three. It's a shame. He might be a terrible person Allegedly allegedly might be might be might be might be anyway. What are you saying? Oh, I was saying that there was something kind of nice about the fact that I didn't recognize this actor Yeah, he was really good. He really kind of disappeared into the role Uh, yeah peacemaker Oh Who was he in peacemaker? Yeah, he was uh, he was like the guy in charge of their like military operation thing I can't remember his name. Um, I'm sure I've seen him in something else before but I can't I can't think of what that would have been But yeah, I thought he was great Um Yeah, so he does say uh, they say why send the sovereign he says merely a backup. I believe I know where they're going Um, the thing about it is if I was an advisor, I'd be like you just told them that if they don't bring you rocket Their civilization is going to be destroyed So that could cause problems in terms of them getting in your people's way Possible because you've just made the stakes that they must collect rocket You know, I mean the reason obviously I'm saying that that whole civilization might be going after That's another another interesting factoid is they have a giant fleet Yeah, they have the capacity clearly the money and the technology to move away You know And that's not even entertained like there's no the sovereign are not treated Like anything of value in this it's it's just Adam Warlock and his mum They seem like a really powerful society at least what we saw in the audience too They're not like remote control like ships that you know, there's crazy powerful. Well Well, there's a whole film there where they are made aware of this and they evacuate the planet Well, that that's even a compensation they could have, you know, like why why aren't we just running away from high evolutionary? And then you can like further Explode with our guns One of the first things I would do if I were rewriting this is I'd probably just cut them from the movie Well Yeah I was gonna say the way I think it tracks the uh, the high evolutionary would figure they'd go to the olgoscope Knowing the rocket's been injured. I think that'll that's solid. Unfortunately. It's gonna lead to problems. Yeah That's right He does have the right idea, but he doesn't follow up on that right idea for some reason Yeah, and so for the record, I think that the film is okay right now We're not doing fantastic But all the characters are like mostly intact a couple of weird decisions going on But it's mainly the wheel building and the plot is starting to crack But it's okay But now from now on is where we start getting into, uh, shotgun problems. There's just stuff everywhere that's going wrong This is gonna be fun Uh, they arrive at the olgoscope and the first thought I had when watching it was like, oh We're just turning up outside of it We're just showing up There we are like, you know, you you're apparently going for a subversion here But like you're just floating outside there. Okay Okay Well, luckily here we are Luckily for our heroes the olgocope the olgocorp security is just The security is just fucking pissed. It's well lost. It's world class. What do you mean? That's great I was about to say like There's when they describe it It's said like in a way that's like jesus christ, you know, don't fuck with these guys But it's like dude, they don't even fucking look out the window Like Anyway, um They say like it's not going to be easy to break into this place and he's like doesn't have to be easy I was a professional thief. Remember. I'll just jam the signals That's that's some weak right in james. That's it's set up. It's set up to where like Obviously that won't work. You know the way he says it so flippantly. I'll just jam the signals And then they try and jam the signals Yeah And then something terrible happens You know like how there's a door with a lock and then someone starts lockpicking it and it's like oh well Yeah, we know that character for seasons that has been the lock picker character. Of course. That's totally fine This felt like a kind of overcompensation. I was a professional thief. Remember Like yeah, okay That's your deal. Yep, sure sure thing man. I've watched the films Um, let me have a bit of a bit of drama a brewing You know meaning in a good way As he's sort of sorting these things out. He starts saying if I hadn't been drinking Maybe rock it You know like like having thoughts like that, which I think is super reasonable. Yeah, and yeah Good good stuff. Yeah, and then Mads says it's okay. He's your best friend I think is a way to sort of say like that's why you're having these thoughts Um, and then uh, Drax says second best friend Um, how do we feel about that one? That's a joke Uh, yeah, all right. I think it was all right. Yeah, I think the buffer of mantis makes that one land better Um, it's like, yeah Yeah, because she's doing all the more serious talking Uh, and he's you know there he's never been the most sympathetic Yeah, he's very consistently um Almost like a bruiser when it comes to actually discussing things with people. He just never has any tact Yeah, yeah Um, yeah, and he says everyone around me dies my mom yondu gamora And she says gamora is not dead and drax says a line that I was like damn he says she is to us Which is like true, but like still like damn, you know There's him being really blunt again Yeah, it's a perfectly suitable line and makes sense. She as she existed is no longer as she existed Yeah, so drax his character being what it is doesn't have that emotional attachment. Um In so there you go so they um They move through she there's three shields around the orgo scope And they start moving through the first one and it if uh, I don't know how I describe it It's like pushing in on a big bubble until you slip past it And the yeah, it looks like it more like a breaks and changes colors and it becomes visible And it seems like the kind of thing that would be very Noticed Well, you only have to look out for someone maybe I think I was not even it would you wouldn't even need to look outside. It should alert them It should their shield is yeah It even just basic. Yeah, uh, so I think in my head I was wondering if they were gonna do some kind of a joke of them talking about Don't worry the way we punctured the shields. It keeps the electrosingularity signal from Looping on itself so that it's an unbroken. That's done it no scanners Uh, that's that can detect it. There's no way that any other machines or systems will notice it And it just cuts to like people looking out the window and watching it Did this I think in mando season one funnily enough, so I don't know why they wouldn't have done it here Just say You know like peter they can see us you'd be like no they can't you'd be like What do you mean? And then it like has a view from outside where it's uh got camo or something Then he's like this is a class blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah this cost a fortune Do you know that the ship can do and he's like, uh, I don't think there's many the only problem with that even I would just be like are they supposed to be like hyper sophisticated the olgoscope people or not? I don't really It's not a radar Yeah Thing they should be incredibly sophisticated like that I legitimately thought that it was too easy because it was a trap Uh, I think that's a reasonable conclusion. I wish it was a trap incredibly easy. It's just so easy And especially because he it's he just said I think I know where they're going Yeah, so I was like crime to think okay. He's lying and wait for them I mean, no, yeah They got there before he was able to send the message. He's very far away. It's like the pony express They're beating the news Suddenly we care about how fat how long it takes for information to travel in the galaxy Those jump points and everything like that they you could get around real fast with those So shield one breached and then they continue talking and Mattis talks about how um, you know Bill does have a grandpa that uh, he could see Especially since he lost his daughter and you and then he says he screamed at my face and kicked me out of the room Which honestly I kind of appreciated I was like, oh shit That's probably how he remembers it. I'm so glad that they were actually like calling back to that as a as an element Um, yeah, and she says he's probably trying to protect you and then uh, that he could still be alive And he's like he'd be like 90 Then he's like people on earth die when they're like 50 There's what's the point in living? Are you about to die? Like I'm not 50 Um, yeah, it's always confused me about how like how years are tracked Because it seems like everyone goes by birth years regardless of where you live It's a tough one. That's a tough one to account for like and it's in like science fiction stuff, right? Because planets have very different days and years Yeah, different calendars weighs a measuring time and we're not even going to get into the gravities Venus's day, but we are going to get into the gravity. Yeah. Oh, I guess we are That's right. Um, those are just not a very good joke. It's just It struck me a little odd because Um, mantis considers 50 Sorry 90 not worth No, 50 not worth living to which is like if she understands time like I do it's like 50 is not short That's half a century I guess they're trying to do something that she's been alive for like so long that to her I even I I've never quite bought the argument of like let's just put it this way if I um if I lived to a thousand Um, I did live to 50. I know how much time had passed at that point. How many experiences I have 50 years I'm sure that we've had this conversation before but like the relativity of how long time feels like depending on how long You're alive for like that feels like it can be We have had this conversation before because we talked about it with elves and I don't buy for a fucking second The they experience time in such a way that they like forget everything or whatever happened with them Yeah, like that was stupid The the sense of the passage of time like I feel like it could be complicated Only maybe in retrospect and memory could be the only way that I think I could really buy that Because they're still acting in real time with everybody else. I don't think mantis is the character to think this either No, I don't I don't think so. Um, but but I guess the the the point being that like I uh You know, like I could imagine I could imagine a civilization or a species that lives for a lot longer Having like trouble almost relating to a human timescale Like I could see that Causing problems not to like a significant degree, but you know to some extent I think that um, all I would need to close it off and actually make a joke I think I'd be totally cool with is he could say I'm not 50 and then it could be a gap and then Like how long do you think 50 years is? Because like it could be that she just has no idea What he's referring to specifically and she could be mistaken and it just leaves it open then because um It also solves the problem of everybody as was just mentioned being on earth time, which is really really weird um Which by the way is something that uh, do you remember in the first guardians? that was like the first proper time we've understood that everybody speaks english everywhere and um It was sort of made a counter was made that it's like no They are all speaking alien languages, but they translate it for us, you know, quote unquote But then you remember there was um a detail in when peter was scanned that he has like translator microbes or whatever injected That's something you can see on his description when he's taken in And so it's like oh, so everybody in space has translation Duff injected question mark The thing is that's it's it's just that's kind of like a tough one to a therefore write up Like the best that you can do because language It's a problem because as well It's it's kind of a it's kind of a pet peeve. I have with science fiction. Like, you know, like there is no like There's a lot of languages on earth Um, but often when it comes to aliens, it's like, oh, they just have like one sort of mono language When it was even worse when it's several different planets all have the word like Yeah, they didn't even drink the goo Exactly. Oh What it's just more speak, you know, like in halo, right? What are what are the elites speak? Well, you know, they speak british No, they speak elite or sanghealy But then also i'm pretty sure all the yeah, they didn't halo one That's just that's yeah, no, I know but you know, they've been sort of changed their minds on that one I went back and thought about whether or not I wanted to To speak in that alien language or you know, definitely one of those kinds of like no You can understand what everyone's saying don't think about it kinds of uh, I think yeah It is one of those it is one of those cases. Don't think about it. It's like rules of fiction about it That's that's okay. We don't have to think about that one. It's just really It's really hard to account for Uh, so mantis sort of sums up this conversation by saying you're upset because so many people have left you But you left people Um, I'm not a fan of this I'm not sure if I believe it's something she would say but I don't like If it's an attempt at a point from the from the film because it's uh He's some of the people who've died in his life and how much he Like he made a point about how people die around him and then she's like, yeah, but you ditched your grandpa Do you think um, do you think that? That that was meant to have anything to do with the big revelation of the guardian special like in terms of her Being his sister and like something to do with a desire to retain and keep family connections I assume this is all just a set up the end Uh, well, I mean that's what it's for but I guess I'm saying like if you were to you know Do you think that there's an argument to be made that that's what's motivating it? Uh, you have to I don't know why I've kind of wiped it for my memory the christmas special Well, um, she knows that she's peter's sister And that's something that she wants to come forward with and presumably she's held on to it for a long time And she feels that it's been beneficial to like actually sort of embrace that familial connection. Maybe that's what's motivating it I Brother and sister. They are brother and sister. Yeah. Yeah, mantis is uh, is peter's brother I've sistered. Okay. I was about to say I I didn't know about this But I guess you go to make that you know happen. Okay Um In that case it I think maybe I could be argued into believing it's something she's said that's a bit clunky And that's a better justification, but I don't like it if it's supposed to actually be a valid point Uh, okay Isn't it I I sort of felt like it was just like it means it's clunky the way it's written for sure But that she's inviting him to consider that like, you know You still have family there and that like not that he's like a bad person for leaving him But like, you know, you like you've lost a lot, but there's your grandfather and you could go be with him if you wanted to You know, I think the way maybe I misunderstood because my impression with combining if I hadn't been drinking maybe rocket I'm so sorry with everyone around me dies. I thought that what's happening right now Is he's feeling intense guilt for not being able to better protect people I don't think there's anything like I didn't get the impression that he's talking about how he wants more family members to be with Yeah, and it alternatively might lead someone to take from that that he Isn't justified in feeling the way he does Because supposedly he left people behind somewhere. Yeah, which feels completely clunked Yeah, which is like immediately back to back up. There was some space between those moments But maybe I'm Well, you've got him saying that about rocket then she says it's okay He's your best friend second best friend and then he says everyone around me dies my mother So arguably it's literally a continuation of what he'd last said Okay I guess I I Had it in my head that it was like a kind of Related but separate conversation like a minute or two later when I was watching it I felt like if I were in the scene I would have been like mantis Calm down like it's not appropriate. The fucking guy is talking about how people die around him And he's really upset you don't like and he's blaming himself You don't need to talk about how he needs to talk to his grandparks. He ditched him. It's like calm the fuck down Another time Yeah Um, it's weird that I didn't I didn't because I I get that criticism, but I don't remember feeling that way about it in the moment That's weird. Anyway, well would another counter argument be made that she would be appealing to the fact that as far as he's concerned Uh, peter is like dead or you know missing for decades at this point That that's like a situation where he can make somebody feel better about the fact that they might feel that they failed Like we should have said that Um, yeah, I mean, I'd agree with that but like that's an argument that you can make in favor of it, right? Hmm Like to me it's a super clunky and fast way of just being like remember the grandpa. Yeah. Yeah That's obviously what the point of that scene is is to remind but the way she says it does kind of seem Rude if nothing else. Yeah, it's it's it's just very very Communicating that point considering. Yeah, obviously struggling right now. It's like yeah now is the time, you know to do that Maybe I'm not really remembering correctly But the vibe that I kind of get from mantis or at least the idea of her that I had in my head was almost like a therapist emotional counselor diana trey sort of character who's able to get in touch with people's emotions and like help them emotionally and everything And I feel like if if that's the case it's it's very inconsistently portrayed in this movie Um, I wouldn't I because in guardians too. She you know, she obviously has empath empathic abilities But she doesn't have a lot of social tact. You know what I mean? She she's not especially good at navigating conversations, especially not at the beginning of guardians too. Um, maybe Maybe God is there something to be said about how that's how she should be after all this time I think that that would probably be a better argument. What was the last thing we saw her in besides the holiday special That was awesome. And then She jumps around and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. She was at the battle. Didn't you notice her? That was before they gave powers to fight people. They gave that a that was introduced in like holiday special, right? Jumping around and attacking people. Yeah I remember it's being like I can't really remember that after this time period, you know I can't remember what she was like in terms of social tact in the in like infinity war and endgame She always oh, well, I wouldn't uh use them as example. She got dusted, right? Um, so she was out for significant portion of all of it, but The thing about her that I would have guessed is that she has a unique insight to how people feeling and what they're sensitive to But at the same time tries to avoid You know, like going too far into places but makes mistakes. I'm totally fine with that. I just think this one was like It's like she's got a bone to pick. Um, which is unusual for her, but she's a lot more aggressive in this film than the others Yeah, I think is you know, you can say this reasonable relatively because she's been with the guardians for some time now Yeah, I'd still want like a reason for that Um, instead of being able to under especially if you can understand why people feel the way that they do Um, I feel like you would be far more understanding and you'd be Impression was that she had a conversation She wanted to have with him and she just like butted it into something that was absolutely not what he was talking about He needs a little bit like he's tumbling a little bit here. He needs a little bit of help He's he needs to be told it's not his fault and that he's he's a good friend Not to be told that you abandoned your family on there. Yeah, I will though I will say in in guardians too It's like she doesn't have a lot of She's not she can feel people's feelings and like she feels them along with them But she doesn't seem to under like okay, so when she's first demonstrating her powers And she just kind of makes public Quills feelings for no, yeah, that's what I'm saying. She does especially at the beginning. She's she's not very good at um Using the information she has but a lot of social interaction. That's a thing Yeah, so there seems to be a distinction between being able to feel the love or the romantic and sexual love that He has for gamora and understanding that he probably wouldn't want that shared publicly in this moment Yeah, and so I I think you could I think the the best argument would be against this would be that by now She should have a better understanding of that But it's another bit of that the amount of time this past isn't it? It's just like yeah Sometimes you think like it was it was 10 days since guardians too and it's like no, it's been a while Yeah, you should be getting some pretty serious advantage roles and all your social interactions and just the natural element of you being With these people for an amount of time I just feel I'd be better at her job than she would be and I'm just sort of watching as a out of universe observer I'm not, you know, actually living with them day to day I think there's some consideration for her Um, she's not quite as like Autisticly coded as Drax was in the beginning, but there's a little bit of that with her as well I think that can go some way of explaining Her some clunky and blunt things. She says yeah, I'm willing to um Uh, accept that I think that she says some weird shit sometimes. I just um didn't hit me right that moment Yeah, no, I agree So they burst through the three things, but then they stopped and they're like, what's what's going on? And then Nebulas like uh-oh and they look out the window and it's rocky Rambo Uh, what else does he do? Expendables He's uh, so Vesta Stallone's outside being like hey, which is kind of weird This this will be on the lowest part of the list of issues, but why is he gone outside at a spacesuit just to go Hey in front of the window That's what I like to do. I just like to feel that I'm being a bit of a ravage case Please feel free like like like a butterfly There's uh, I don't know. Yeah, but anyway. Oh god. This one's gonna be this is gonna be a thing so Of course, you're all thinking the ravages are here This is seriously difficult to figure out how we should talk about all of this in what order and how there's so many things Uh, should I maybe Go further or start now. I don't even know. Um The fact that they've even brother, okay So you got loads of ravages ships and they're gonna board the guardianship now They start to attach themselves to the ship. I thought it was so strange. It's like wait. Are they porting on to like actual ports and then And then they just come in through the uh, this the magic portals from the dr. Strange type magic one of them One of the members there has a sling ring and so they can all come in that way So I was just like, why are you why are you attaching yourselves to the main ship if you just have portals? What's what are you doing? so Here's what's weird. Is that my My first thought I guess this is just how my brain works in terms of world building is I see the The the cool. It looks like I don't know. He looks like a naga And he is like a he's like a serpent kind of guy orange one A kind of cool looking and he comes in he makes the portals and everyone comes in I'm like, oh, yeah, of course That makes sense because you know just because magic there are people of magic on earth That wouldn't mean that across the galaxy There wouldn't be all these people who wouldn't know about magic and they'd you know figure things out in their own way And then I'm like, you're right rags. We should start with the positives Yeah, because that's legitimately the first thing that came because I agree Um, I thought it was really cool to see dr. Strange type magic But as part of a different alien and culture the idea that this stuff isn't just for if this is everywhere And it can be discovered and understood and used like that's cool Yeah, especially if it was used Effectively, well, yeah, because this would be like a way to use it effectively in this moment We're boarding you instantly using portals bypassing your defenses right now. We're fine. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense Actually, no, we're not actually vinyl already because we're not quite nice Yeah, like wow, that's really cool. That's some real naga. Shit. Yeah, there we go. Avoided that landmine now Um, unfortunately, that's like all the positives I have about that Uh, if we rewind just a little bit, right the the reveal here is that they've that's this is the contact from nebula is contacted Um, I may as well just say it's it's it's gamora Who is a part of the ravages to meet outside the orgoscope in order to construct a plan To get what they want out of the place So the first question you'd have if you've been listening close is wait, why did they meet past the third shield? exactly In the fucking world that means that the ravages all the ravages ships got past the three shields And nobody noticed what the fuck Why even do it like that? It makes no sense at all That's just how good the ravagers are too That's just how good they are I think are so talented. This is what they smaller. This is what they do for a living. They're really good at it Orgo corp is like that house that puts the security sign in their lawn, but doesn't actually buy it Beware of the old they don't have a dollar. They get an ad t sign and stick it in front of their thing Or maybe they put a yeah a collie conum and they put it on the the fence there and they don't actually have a dog and You know They have of course some security cameras that aren't on on actually hooked up. They should not only meet outside the shields Why all of them? Why is there so many ships and so many men when the whole thing they're giving them is going to be information and some suits It's dramatic this way. It's more dramatic. Correct. Um, it gets worse than that You know how Maybe sometimes someone says hey, I'm going to go uh, I'm going to go get some groceries And uh, I won't be long. I'll be right back and you say, you know, I'll go with you And they're like, yeah, sure. Let's go and there's no reason for you to go with them But you know, you want to hang out you want to be social hang out near the old just enjoy being around with them Yeah, you know, so you want to be social and you know, these are your buddies and everything So you just want to you know be included and let them know that you're still there and you're gonna you can chat There and on the way back you don't just have to awkwardly listen to you know the radio And you could be like, oh, what's that and like it's a dragon fruit. It's five bucks. You want to try one? Yeah, sure. It looks like it's a really amazing tasting piece of food and you're like, well, actually they're quite Quite mild. It's like a very slightly sweet kiwi. You know, like really he's like, yeah Yeah, we'll go ahead and we'll get one so that you know, you know what they taste like But they're not nearly as exciting as the outside might lead you to uh, believe metaphor analogy so We uh, we covering the why are they so many of them covering the why would they meet there? You don't even have to like do the whole why didn't they meet outside the shields? It's why didn't they just portal? Who needs them? You don't even need to move your ship And before anyone says like well, they'd have to be able to like see it, right? It's like no Oh No It's uh, they are the most overpowered like individual mechanic. I think in the mcu. It's insane. I sure wish that's how they work We aren't operating under the rules of teleportation like jumper was Well, even night crawler in the exo fall back um So, yeah already it's causing issues significantly because they always do if I was forced to have someone with portal tech in my movie I'm like, oh for fuck's sake Especially with how the best rules works. Yeah, we need some rules so They they all pile in Because I think I think that kind of does it that's all the many different ways That's incredibly stupid and all the ravages seem like absolute fucking idiots. I don't know what the hell's going on there They all bored. They all come in Drax is about to like start fighting with them and and they like calm it down like don't do it and then Nebula says we have an appointment. They say with who The the ravages say this with who? Gamora is not great at distributing infer- there was a break down in a line of Look, there's a big breakdown in the lines of communication just for everybody. This communication is really important But this is more dramatic though, but it's so funny to think the fucking Gamora said we're all going to outside the orgo scope We're going three shields in we're gonna wait until we spot the guardians and move our ships according to where they're coming in And then we're gonna board them It's like, oh, okay Why? Yeah, instead of meeting like because there's no audience watching at home I don't even there's no reason in the plot for them to have not just met up earlier before this Dude, there's no reason for any of this to happen this way What it would mean is that you would have Gamora present on the ship as they went through the barriers and for the Conversation of you know this stuff. She could be present if you wanted to have her there now But instead it's it's this this is the this is the events that transpire Yeah, we haven't even gotten to nebula not tell on the team We're just talking about Gamora not telling her ravages, which makes zero sense whatsoever Especially because the whole point of getting them here is to fucking tempt them with money. That's the whole idea Yeah, how'd you get them here? Otherwise? Don't know. Yeah, really strange. But then she's like with Gamora and it's like before you Before you move on This is one of many things in the movie where I don't it's a problem that you could just not have if you didn't make it This way, you know, yes, that's that's a weird way of saying it But it's something that they made a deliberate choice to have like this when it would have been so much easier if you said nothing Like there's so many Rather easy fixes in this script not all of them But some of them it's like oh just don't include the person saying that and the problem goes away Yeah, or just don't even have this moment of yeah, like half like like fake out drama like, oh no We're being boarded by ravagers. Uh, well it could possibly go wrong next today Uh, and then yeah, just have them just have a meet up and the drama is Them meeting up with new Gamora. Yeah, and that's it's already good. It's our I mean, well, you know, it has its problems So well if we can get into but would mind broaching the subject now with her introduction before we get to the nebulous side of these things Gamora is a ravager. Does that make any sense? I don't see what her I don't I did she have that strong of a connection to the ravagers before this to where that would be Where she devotes her time and attention now Something to make clear. Remember in endgame. This is 2014 Gamora at the same time like maybe a day before guardians of the galaxy takes place A film in which Gamora Allies with the Nova Corps to save the universe from untold horrors from Ronan The film in which she is the central driving force for the guardians to Do the right thing essentially the guardians want to sell that stone for money Yep, and you know rocket wants to just you know, leave She's like no man. I just can't get it. Yep. That's the Gamora that we're dealing with So, uh, yeah, she doesn't feel like uh, she doesn't feel like she's going to be doing much Well, it's just yeah jumping from her there to ravager I'm really I could maybe buy it if we're talking them way earlier Gamora But the fact that it's the one that's pretty much the guardians of the galaxy one makes me think like oh Shit, did you forget? She's kind of like the most moral one out of all of them Well, I mean remember how opposed she was to giving Yondu the power stone how like that was untenable Yondu was a ravager. He's not these ravagers, but he's a ravager, you know So here's here's my question. Is there an argument to be made that she it's that it would be within her character in 2014 Gamora To align herself with these sort of like mercenary Pirate types, but the fact that it's the power stone and that all of this particular civilization that Thanos could get it That those aches mate that change I'm not sure because she she seems to have a lot of in the first meeting with uh with um, Peter she seems to have like Good amount of contempt for him um Like yeah, she considers them like a renegade coward like rogue type that just does whatever he wants at the cost of other people Which is precisely what the ravages are The only code the ravages have is no children The idea that she would seek them out and join them doesn't in any remote ways sit well with me I think that's a misread of her character Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. It just doesn't I Loki had so It's just briefly to get on the subject of Loki the problem with Loki anytime The problem with Loki is that they have taken from the timeline They plucked Loki out when he was at his like most evil And then they wanted to fast track him to where they wanted him to be which was not that Loki Um, it's as if he might as well You know didn't It's as though he didn't even die This is not quite the same problem Uh, if anything it might be the opposite problem that she is very different from who she probably ought to be At that time kind of in the opposite direction Yeah, and if there was a story that happened between then and now I need to be made aware of what happened Which it's been a couple years. It's been a couple years. I think at this point Uh, oh, yeah, not an impossible place to end up. Um, but we got nothing for the context on that at all This is a throwaway line from Luke on an island and we're like, what the fuck is happening? What was a throwaway line? I think peter said something just along the lines of like, why would you join the ravagers or like you're not a ravager Oh, yeah, he says that you were searching for a family. Um, I don't think that even comes close Like why would she seek that out with the fucking ravages? All right, I have I have I have a question because A big part of who she is in the first one is trying to prevent Ronan and fairness from getting the power stone. That's obviously a big motivation for her outside of that Before this particular that particular plot thread comes into existence for her Like who is she exactly because obviously she's something of a warrior, right? She's She's a little rough around the edges in some ways um I'm trying to understand who who she was outside of what we find out very important that that sanos and ronan don't get the power What we find out with the context of guardians two and one is that she's pretty much always been a good person She's just trying to survive under thanus's heel and she even says like to nebula That are the only reason that she Ended up beating her every time and her resulting in those uh cybernetic changes is because she just wanted to win And survive. She had no idea that like it was creating horrors for nebula, which Um, I guess she never saw any of what happens or how it happens because it wasn't exactly fucking easy In any case what i'm trying to say is that she felt guilty finding out that her winning against nebula was causing her pain And my assumption is from what we gather is that she's pretty ruthless But she was always looking for an opportunity Who subverted where needed and that was all we saw in guardians 2014 was that Her opportunity had finally come to make a significant difference But that everything that motivates her to complete that task is all a part of her character Okay, so at the very end of guardians one she decides to join them and she doesn't seem to like the very I think it's one of the last lines and in the first movie is the question of like, oh So what are they going to do next? She's obviously willing to follow quill wherever He leads them and there's some discussion of whether they're going to go do noble hero things or go be kind of like outlaw renegade pirate types and he says a little of both right so obviously she's okay with some level of um Well, I think the the implication is that they do good things, but if they can get paid for it, that's cool too Okay, I don't think she'd be okay with robbing people blind or anything I mean, she even uh, like you see that several times like in subsequent stories remember when they were going to the distress signal In infinity war. She was the one who was trying to keep them on task while they were thinking about money. Yeah That's what I mean. It's like, yeah, that's kind of And then there's also the question of like she should probably What what happened between, you know, like when she in endgame when she like, you know, what happened where'd she go? Um and why didn't she want to you know, good question deal with our nebula like that feels like a connection that she would be Yeah, just you have no, you know what I mean, especially given that she's a different nebula to her as well It's like they both have the opposite problem, right? It's like the nebula that she Knows it's not like, you know, the main nebula Well, I so I would argue this is a result of an over correction. Uh, the Reality was I can't just put those two back together now That's a different gamora and everyone across the world is like, you know what James? That's that's fair And I don't expect you to do that And uh, if you don't do it, I have mad respect for it because yeah, she's not the same person There's not the same character. And so he went yep, she isn't the same character Though she's this you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah Um, they they managed to avoid the the thing that I didn't you know that I didn't want to see like that didn't happen Good because that happens a lot in media. I feel and in a lot of discussions If I clone myself and have sex with them, am I master a bit? You know, it's like level one, you know, kind of approach to this kind of subject But um, like like just because you clone someone or go or get someone from another time Like you're both the exact same person and they treat it like that and that's just not That's not how it works So I was I was worried that they might try and get you know, Peter and her together or that she would just be Like a repeat and we'd be seeing the same thing again Which seems like kind of like it would be kind of kind of mean to the original Gomorrah in a sense if they just did that um but Remind me I didn't sorry to sorry to interrupt, but I was wondering remind me. Is this a Ghidorah? Is this a Gomorrah? King Ghidorah, is this a Gomorrah from another timeline or a the same time same timeline With the back Which would count as a different timeline at that point, but it's a distinction without a difference in in terms of her character Okay, so it wouldn't go any way of explaining that she's a different person Yeah, it's uh earlier Temporal technicality. It doesn't yeah, it's just she's she's an old version of Gomorrah essentially like we are all Old versions of ourselves back then you take Gomorrah from guardians one Just take her and skip everything that happened between, you know guardians once and now That's who this Gomorrah is One of the things that that makes this a little confusing for me because I think I agree with your criticisms for the most part But part of what's strange is that the ravagers that we see um, especially the ones that lead a mutiny in volume two Seem to be Markedly different from the ones that Sylvester Stallone is the leader of in terms of ethics not just in terms of only the kids thing That's the big difference yandu delts. Yeah, but yes Yeah, so they're they're fee their fees. Yeah, they're pirates. That's basically pirates. Yeah Yeah, I think the movie sort of treats them like they're more noble, but we don't really see Any difference other than what you the reality is they're not Yandu as soon as he found out the children were being hurt. He stopped. He had no idea that was happening Um, he just thought he was delivering children Or whatever purpose like just there does There does seem to be a difference in kind of the people that Uh zandu was leading and the people that Sylvester Stallone is leading I don't think we see enough of Stallone's people to really say that's kind of what i'm getting at is that um based on how they're treating them in this movie They the movie seems to treat them that they're actually Much more noble than the other faction we saw but i'm not sure they really are Like I said the ravages they just attack steel and they'll even kill as long as it's not kids That's just the only thing they don't do Which I think the whole reason for that is to allow us to at least like them somewhat because if they have some some Yeah Gotta have yeah like I could I could like, you know long john silver, you know, there's something about him That's kind of yeah. Yeah, it's kind of neat. You know, there's he's an asshole, but you know, there's something there So we got to have that thing to latch on to So Question becomes why didn't nebula tell them said weight Stallone is in this. Yes. Sylvester Stallone is in this movie. Yes Yeah, he's in there Why didn't nebula tell them this was happening so they could either discuss it or prepare for it And the answer this given is she said because you would freak out and then Oh, well, they're really freaking out now. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, well, this is gonna ask me thought of the joke the uh freak out how like he does a Just like a high um, I I think I'm okay with it. I I feel like him Are we I feel like him kind of That revelation was gonna happen either way And he's it's almost like he's been suppressing or not looking forwards to meeting her because of some element of the weird tiny UIME stuff Um, so I think it works unless I'm just missing something but no, I mean I don't think it's out of character But um, I was too taken aback by the fact that she said because uh, you know, you're gonna freak out It's what you've already highlighted. It's like as opposed to them being dropped on him through a fucking portal This is better. Yeah somehow if you wanted to avoid Yeah, it's um, if you're worried he's gonna flip out like this would be more of a flip out potential Because nebula would say like she would tell him because she would know you'd have to meet them anyway I'll tell you now like there's no avoiding it. There's no it's not like you're calculating a risk of what we might not run into her So I'm not going to tell you anything and gamble that we're not going to bump into her Um, but that was you're gonna the plan was to meet her. So exactly. That's Yeah, there's you're not here He was either gonna freak out then or freak out now and now has more potential to go wrong. Drax nearly fights them Exactly because he's Drax Well, that's kind of my point is if you told Drax, oh, we're gonna get the ravages meeting us soon They're gonna portal on board. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so the ravagers would be like, hey everyone. We're here. It's good to see you We're gonna portal on board More dramatic than that. We're gonna we're gonna go ahead and use our our portals a portal guy I'm gonna stand out. He is gonna He's gonna we're gonna walk on board Boy, this is so fucking useful. Tim is he's he is earning that paycheck. Tim is Wow He's a good guy I get it. I get it. Tim wasn't in the expendables fringy. I don't know what you mean Yeah, he isn't expendable. Exactly. You got it rags. You figured it out. That's pretty clever Yeah, I like it. I like it You're not the only pretty cool. Tim's quiet Tim's a good listener keeps to himself. Yeah, it doesn't cause a ruckus No, Tim is keep to himself He's really social and he's happy to be around people and he makes emojis with his magic, you know, sometimes when he gets It does make emojis. I forgot but it's a human emoji It's not an alien emoji because everything's from fucking earth. Yep. Oh, oh god. That's I oh shit. Yeah, that's a good point All the music is from earth. Yeah, all it That's okay. I think about you fringy whenever I hear aliens This happens in uh, this happens in star trek a lot They reference like shakespeare and things like that a lot and i'm like guys it's been like I get the reference every once in a while But like it's yeah, what's the what's the year in tngs are like? 2,500 something like that. Yeah, they should be like the famous quote from glerschmanek And then they say it and it sounds kind of insightful and they're like from the year 2020 Yeah, they wouldn't even have to say the year. They just you it's it's like, you know, the what they They reference it so matter-of-factly like everyone knows and that's kind of like a little bit of world building And and we get a moment to catch up and like, oh, yeah, I guess they would say that yeah Hey, but here's the thing. What's the difference between that and that's the flim flam call and the slim whatever it was We can make fun of that and we can turn it into money fringy I was about to say there isn't necessarily anything wrong with this Paul fucking chris valoy can't speak words right now So it's a mean to make him say a bunch of nonsense Yeah, I don't know if fringy was doing that voice to be christopher loyde or to be the blue guy. Oh, yeah, that's fair Oh, yeah And he's uh, and he's dead like and gone that that guy he'll be back boba kane con Limblev No, wait, that was uh, that was all of him. What was damn it? What was it? Someone in chat's gonna know kane. I don't know the Had been One thing that I was about to say because we were joking about cad bane coming back And he said well, it's not like we saw him get disintegrated and then I realized well, that's that's that's not That increases his odds of returning, right? statistically you might return more Has stopped, you know, it didn't stop the emperor Of course not It will to be fair That was a double negative because he got vaporized twice which undid both of them And it's not gonna stop moff kitty in either. Oh, he'll be back He'll burn on his face like an austin powers. I will or he was a clown. Yeah, that's more likely um So you have a line from peter saying never pictured you as the ravager type Then she looks at him just says who are you again? Oh, man Another joke that I thought works because it's just realistic dialogue But it's actually kind of funny like she really doesn't know who he is and doesn't know why she should care I don't even know who you are That one doesn't work I don't think not because it's not really like that's a really interesting comparison because it's it's dialogue That's accurate, but what the fuck you do and putting that in the movie. You don't even Because this one makes sense, right? Like this is we're gonna be addressing their relationship quite a bit and this is the current state But to have scarlet witch to be so furious with him and he's like, I don't even know Well, it's it's kind of it's kind of interesting because I think obviously the the original intention was Yeah, like he really should know who scarlet witch is because she's gonna fuck him up But but it's just really funny. It's just a funny thing to say He just draws attention to the fact that this isn't the character that they have a connection to Which was such a mistake Yeah, she's really mad at him and it's like, who are you, you know I don't understand why you're so mad, but okay It's like the same joke in uh, in some ball with ant man where like, you know, Tony's like, who are you and it's like, oh man like Yeah, who are you What's who am I thinking of or someone um Someone like goes to a villain and the villains like oh did I kill someone that you liked or something like that? That was uh, Ronan said that to Drax. He didn't remember who Drax is That was any but then he recalled later. Yeah, it's just you know That this is the thing that Drax Ronan was being a real prick and he didn't remember. He was just making it up I was like, oh, yeah, I remember them. We does. Yeah, they were Played that later. Yeah, yeah But he says like I have no idea what you're talking about which obviously makes Drax furious I don't want to be honest with you I mean that he was that he was lying that he remembers him and he just pretends to remember And pretends to recount their pain just to be a dick to Drax. That is also possible. He might actually apparently ever Is he Ronan's a real prick? everybody's talking about m bison Uh saying something like that in the street fighter movie I wonder who they're gonna that's live action street fighter film Coming coming soon apparently Cole urban's gonna is potentially going to be playing Johnny cage, by the way And the more that could be neat Carl urban is a good actor. So I like him in everything he does Do you like him in dread? Yeah, uh, yeah great in dread Do you like him in the lord of the rings the two towers? No, I hated him in that he ruined the entire fucking film Yeah, learn how to secure a sword probably an amateur So anyway, uh on the topic of what were we just talking about extensively wow brain. Oh, yes, someone mentioned Someone mentioned did you like him in doom? They're like, oh, yeah That was What we were talking about was the you know the the conversation between our peter and gamora and that she didn't know who he was Right. Oh, yeah, I was gonna mention because we talked about the charm on on the topic of Ronan Upon rewatching guardians recently I'm going softer on hating him or being critical of him. The criticism of ronan was just that he was thin But I'm starting to think like I don't know. It's fine Sometimes that's better. It's totally fine. I quite kind of I'll take a thing like him. Oh The years of that that we've got of having thin serviceable villains like oh Oh, well, I'd say that the years that we've had recently have just shit villains That's what I'm saying. It's like, yeah, and isn't it nice to have a thin serviceable mostly functional? He's a functional Leapaste does a good job playing him too. I do like Leapace No, um, we have uh stillone Basically gives the uh the plans out. He says orgo corp is defended by the deadly orgo sentries Ah That's a good joke. All right. That's a great joke. Uh, you guys think of that joke He says you don't have documentation to dock. All right. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. What's the joke? No, the the joke is that they're not deadly at all as we'll see later on Deadly orgo sentries. Oh, I thought I thought that you were referring to it like the name orgo sentries was like a No, I was sitting together. I'm making fun of the film He's poking it because they're floating around and their their outfits and yeah, it's um They don't worry. We'll get to it. They have an odd aesthetic Everything has an odd He says you don't have documentation to dock so you got to get in on your own And it already makes me think like can we get documentation to dock? Yeah, that might be easier That sounds like a really straightforward way of doing it compared he says once in Gamora will get you to the records room to get past uh to get the pass key to override the kill switch But if you get into trouble, we're not going to be able to bail you out so So Where do we even begin with that statement? I think that's the easiest one first, right? Like yeah, let's bail you out Like easy one first portals, um, we've had the portal discussion before mollers talked about the portals and the doctor strange movies We on e-fap have talked about the portals. The portals are an issue Portals are a big issue. They're a huge issue And they don't need to be here. It's insane need to be here that you establish the portals And then you have the confidence to say there's nothing we can do to help you in that regard You are When you're when you're putting these in the movie you're rolling the dice on it'll be cool for people to see that I hope they don't think about it. Yeah, but by the time because like for me I would it's just so much stuff is happening so quickly We've just moved on real quick and all those old thoughts are just gone now because I have to pay attention on the the scene now When you you know Go back through it again You start to think damn man. What do you mean if you run into trouble? You can't help you got portals. Just pull them out Yeah, you could you could just saw you using them to get on spaceships Wait, you portal portal out. I mean, I guess that's another question as well Portal in well, yeah, you know free. What would be the use of portal in if they didn't know what room to go to? Oh, they do know what room to And they know what they're grabbing too, um, uh-oh Feel like we've just such this is such an easy fix. You just don't don't have the fucking portal guy You did put the portal guy in there and you kind of fucked up Traumatically god, it's such an easy fix. It's so frustrating. I hope it doesn't keep coming up It's a possible thing to help solve problems out. We all could wouldn't it like the whole rest of the movie perhaps. Yeah Um, but if we were even to get rid of portals just thinking out loud It just feels like I don't know the the plan they come up with which I guess we should have to go through before we can criticize Is a terrible one compared to what they could do Um, it's nice that you call it a plan Yeah, because it is technically it's it's technically a plan You know in in the sense nobody panic when things go according to plan plan it's horrifying What's the plan to defeat the enemy in battle? I'm like All right, it's a good plan. I like it. We'll surround them and destroy them like that that that is a plan I'm glad molly pointed out that like can't we just maybe get documentation because This isn't as we'll find out later. This is not the bad guy's layer where uh More secretive things are happening. This is basically just like a giant office building. It's a research facility It seems like of some kind. It looks like this is just this is where you But also you go to work right like also just like prisoners Are they're prisoners? I'm yeah, they have records on the like the prisoners Essentially they have the records there, but they don't have this isn't or all the dirty work gets done They have a lot of security though. Um, yeah, this is where this this is like security Yeah, yeah, they yeah, people people people get paid, you know But you clock in you clock out they let you in there's the speakers that say Hi, we're such and such like if you're a visitor, you know, what's happening and you know, I mean, it's for us It's for you and me but you know a tour You probably could legitimately get a tour if you're an investor Yeah, no, they could have posed as investors. That's what I was in Austin power Well, take notes take notes from Austin powers do it Uh, so uh, we we break from there for a little bit to have another flashback and it's um It's basically rocket proving to the high evolutionary and others that he's very intelligent He's solving formulas and uh, just showing he understands a lot of complicated things and he looks outside He's like it's blue guy a rocket just like oh because Because he's just a little animal that is fascinated by the the big blue marble that is they're actually I think he even references this is Do you say it's counter earth at that point? I think that's the first reference to it because that's where they are Yeah, he I I think we get the text says counter earth, but it's not I forget Later, okay. Yeah, that's that's we do learn that it's you know, like a you know Place it says a place um, and you know One of my favorite bits from the high evolutionary in this film is rocket saying Uh, what's the sound he says music and he says we like it. He says yes, we do is just like a good Even like seems to smile like he's happy to announce that of course we like music music's awesome Yeah, I mean he's taught he's essentially in a way. He's talking about his work Um and what he's trying to accomplish and the music is a part of that And it's probably very good to have this creature that you're creating Recognize the music and be able to you respond to it. Um, probably definitely a good sign. Yeah um There is such a level of unease about the high evolutionary And what he's up to and it's this And of course you feel These things just they have a vibe That works really well Yeah, um Big I I really really like all of these a lot um I I think everyone did Well, I suppose I don't know if everyone in this I Maybe everyone and I've definitely seen some criticisms of this aspect of the film We're like flashback three, so I don't know if you want to wait a bit more. Um, let's wait. We've already started waiting Uh, so yeah, he says as a quote be not as you are but as you should be Then he follows on with it's our sacred missions to take the cacophony of sounds around us and turn it into song To take an imperfect clump of biological matters such as you and transform it into something perfect And we're halfway there, aren't we? It's uh, I quite like it in terms of just yeah, that's great understanding his motive, but also just feeling that uh Sort of sinister element coming in yeah But it's how he doesn't even he doesn't recognize like how sinister it is Yeah, because you start with a quote The quote in isolation is actually quite like, you know be not as you are but as you should be it almost sounds inspirational Um, yeah, and unless you're a crazy fucking scientist. He's trying to genetically modify you It's what I mean. It's it's kind of how it goes with um understanding Political pundits and then getting further and deeper into the rabbit hole of what they actually believe because it could start out broad And you're like, oh, yeah, that sounds good And then it's like it's our sacred missions to take the cacophony of sounds and turn it into a song You're like that sounds. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Cool. Cool. And then it's like it's time to perfect these biological clubs Because they're not perfect. Are they and you're like Wait a minute. Like what what's happening now? Um, yeah, and then it gets much worse because he takes rocket into another room But we do see rocket pick up a couple of pieces of bits and bobs before he goes That would be relevant. Yeah, I thought it was it was a good little setup because I had a feeling I was like, oh, you'll be able to make something with that Yeah he says uh he shows him like this room with um Sort of devices and what looks to be like a You know, like a container and he says uh, I've created a device that can force any creature through millions of years of programmed evolutionary changes in a moment Um, my curiosity with it was just why do they all become like humanoid? Because uh, he's very much inspired by earth as well. Is it that he's yeah, he's Taking them to the place he wants them rather than they Yeah, yeah, I would That's what programmed evolution is meant to imply that he's choosing. Oh, right. Okay. I thought maybe it was a way of him trying to say Like it assumes what evolutionary things would happen from its like genetic pathway or something I think that's like an infinite possibilities and there's yeah, that's the no way of doing that Well, potentially, um, what is the end point of that, you know, like could you even say that there's like an end point? Yeah, evolution doesn't have a yeah Which is kind of you know, that's something that's something to glim right that the high evolutionary It's like well, I mean he has an objective a specific goal in mind of what he wants Which is you know, like there's something to be said about that Yeah, so he's he's guiding the evolution. He's programming in certain evolutionary, which is why so many of them turn out similar Yep, okay. Um, the thing is this one's raging like a turtle, I think Hold on hold on bash in against the windows kind of terrifying Oh, yeah, okay, and he's like we can't this this he says he's the rub We can't fix this shit like they just have this rage. It's and they name like a sciencey thing for what's going on Yeah, it's like a brain amino acid or protein or something that it produces and it's yeah something It's science thing Rocket notices something that if they were to tweak and fix that it should solve their problem and he's like, holy fuck I really like rockets young voice It's kind of like he's trying to figure out how to express the thoughts that are coming into his head um And he's he's doing the best he can with that, but his language isn't quite there yet, but the thoughts are in the brain mm-hmm Yeah, even later on adult rocket is never like super Articulate in terms of language, but he's incredibly smart, especially when it comes to technology Yeah, he just has a pretty normal fairly vulgar manner of speech that a lot of people would have There's even a moment where he says can't no can't and then the high evolutionary is like can't I don't know if there was an attempt from the high evolutionary at some point to make them all Have a unified accent or whatever, but he's clearly failed with rocket Yeah, though, I assume rocket's still learning how to you know speak and you know do all that I think it's just I presume that that's just like lack of tolerance for it sounding different from the way that he talks You know because he is is the perfect Yeah and fix it um So yeah, we cut to them beginning to approach the organs orgo scope Uh, and this is the part that you would have seen either clips or trailer stuff from if anyone has seen it where they're in their multicolored suits And oh something really quick before we continue a point of praise. I think Uh, there's something very interesting about the fact that they Turn into rage monsters when they get rushed through, you know, millennia of evolution in a single second There's something really kind of spooky and terrifying about like what it must be like to be that creature Suddenly suddenly finding yourself You know millions of years worth of evolution ahead and like just it cannot process what's actually happened to it and so it just kind of Loses its mind and goes insane something really kind of horrifying about that that I really want a really creepy imagery in this As well as understanding how yeah, this is This has got some weird crazy shit I love it marvel lets uh james gunn go for that Well, so this is one that I would genuinely be like yes check it out before you show your kids, especially depending on Yeah, there was a couple times in this movie I was like are there like little kids here who think this is another fun Mindless mcu romp and they're seeing like these fucked up cyrax and those kids have to fucking see modoc, okay? So I assume that they can survive this great. What do you mean modoc was great. It was family friendly Yeah I will say there's been little hints at this in the guardians trilogy like so into the big pile of bones and corpses Is something similar but we're re-leaning more heavily into it for sure in this movie So multicolored suits head into the orgo scope. They're gonna land just on the facility and their plan is to laser through it um This is one of those situations where you just have to tell me that that's how they can they can just do that and that'll work And I'm like, okay I thought that there would be some kind of plan that this that this Biomass that's that that's their facility would feel pain You think that would be an element of this wouldn't you yeah, you wouldn't just cut through it But it's almost like it's a defensive thing like oh, it's experiencing pain something is damaging the outer structure It's kind of like, you know, like like the reason we have pain to let you know something's going wrong and needs addressing um So I would assume that if I was going to be approaching a creature I just call it a creature for simplicity like this It would experience that and there'd be You something you have to avoid they have to find some orifice to slip into Yeah Um, there's something, you know, like not just cutting a hole in it and sliding through and Yeah, there's something to be said like what you're just getting at that There's a there's an advantage to designing the building this way. It's not just ooh, wouldn't it be crazy if it was like this That that it can feel things that would hypothetically make it more secure in some ways But uh, do you think there'd be a trade-off of some kind? Yes Yeah, there's there's a reason why we're doing this and no one else has done it Maybe because they're a bio engineering whatever they can do it. It's like, okay. That's a reason. I suppose there This is what they specialize in so to speak merging Machines and you know biotics or biology. So, you know, like, okay I wish that they leaned more into it instead of it just being a weird thing Yeah, I agree They even like walk past hair. I think there's just big hairs getting out of it. It's just like, all right Um, and you start I think you start to gather this is more so for just the The opportunity to be like ain't that fucking weird. Look at that. Yeah, this is yeah, it's weird. It's like, um, I kept thinking that this is clean scorn Yeah It is on theme with the villain will give it that credit as well, but It doesn't seem to serve a great functional purpose. Um, if we were to broach that What would your argument be for being on theme with villain? Um, well that genetic engineering and bio engineering is well, I guess on maybe on theme isn't the right word But it's in keeping with the kind of genetic experiments that he's interested in melds flesh to suit His purpose. I think I'm in a way that it, you know, what would have helped with that is making it instead a Almost completely flesh system being like half flesh half tech So it's like a monstrosity kind of like those foot soldiers. He has That's in it. I mean, oh like like you talking about like aesthetically Yeah Because I feel like this is almost all flesh and what will this bone and well the the inside looks really nice And so I assume like the inside is the machine part the outside is the flesh part and he would want this to look really nice and A place a good work environment and everything like that because this is the face of you know, the evils That's actually going on behind the scenes Whereas he doesn't really care about the hellspawn because that's not for public eyes That's for keeping experiments in line and security like creepy security on the planet. Well, that's going to be the Uh defense force for counter earth is what he says, right? Yeah, that's definitely an outer face that he shows the world which is much more, you know, it's this building essentially But I don't know. I I can believe he built this is what I'm getting at I was just gonna say like I wouldn't call this place Like at first glance something aesthetically pleasing No, but I I think I could I'm not waving away, but I can I can believe it based off of like in this world so much weird It's just that would he would he want that as opposed to hard tech? I'm not like his own ship Completely hard kind of um, but I think orgo corp is this is kind of their deal, right? This is this is on brand for them in terms of but like this is a technological marvel and it's very much On brand To buy it is that uh, if the problem is stemming for me is how fucking useless this place is um When I would want to I'd want to see that it's not useless like the way that they've built it as reason It's like that because it's good at blah blah blah For me, this is this is plot failings that are failing an otherwise good design of a building, you know what I mean? Yeah, no, I don't get you That's kind of what I try to push back on with like the quantum verse or The multi-versal like effects when it's like, you know, this doesn't make any sense. It's like, yeah, but People who made all of that did great work. They just don't know what they're doing it for You know a lot of times like, you know production designers concept artists are doing really interesting stuff Even in these movies even in the mcu so Peter presses a button that matches the color of gamora's suit With the intention of trying to talk to her and he says, um, so you really don't remember anything Which I thought was a weird way to start I'm just assuming someone has explained to him how it worked, right? There is nothing for her to remember Yeah, um, I feel like rocket would have You know walked him through it. Um, so it's just it just feels weird that he's like, you don't remember anything It's like, no, this literally she she what she didn't experience any of that. Why would she remember? Yeah I remember everything that happened to me If anything the question should be like Because what he should be wanting to know is like despite the fact you don't remember anything Like do you not have any sort of feelings towards me or like me at all? Like that's like deep down, but he's probably wondering. Yeah um So, uh, yeah, he says that person was some alternate future vision of me not me which Oh, yeah Yeah, and he says you are everything to me and I miss you so much And if maybe you could open yourself up to it and she says I don't think so quinn Which um before we move on I thought that that is a way to slip in comedy kind of like Some of the other examples where it's just so reasonable that she could say that she's barely knows this guy She's heard his name here and there Will and quinn are pretty close quinn. I think it's much more common name And so yeah, he has a pause. He's like will and so it's like sad, but you could also get a laugh in I think that's uh, I would probably try to leave it. Yeah, I like it good stuff Then we have some other jokes so, um They cut in with basically like as he's trying to Spill his heart out with like we can all hear you and then drax is like it's embarrassing um I guess we'll take it piece by piece. What do you think of that? I uh He said it's painful Something like that. I think so. I I don't think it's I don't think it's painful. Um, and I I don't I said I think but I'm confident. He actually said it's painful Well, I I didn't think it was painful. So I'm thinking I'm my bad. My bad words So as to whether or not drax would feel like it. I guess drax would say that. Um But for mantis What does manna say exactly? She just says better. We can all hear you basically. We've been listening this whole time. Um A nebula is a lot more exasperated, which I like. Yeah, never says like I thought you would stop Yeah, that's the part that's the part that made me laugh was when she said we were just like we were hoping that you'd just stop You know, which feels like a thing you might do like you if you walk in on someone embarrassingly talking out loud You want to kind of like hope they just stop instead of you announcing that you're here um For me, um, I'm quite invested in those two having a serious conversation about all of that and then It sort of ended and I was like, okay Yeah, I was disappointed We need to this needs to be like picked up later or there needs to be like this I mean like maybe temporary closure on like we need to like maybe he says we'll talk about this later or something Mm-hmm. I think I want to say like yeah, you can go Whichever way you want to um as a writer I suppose with this one. It's just uh Because you know, I think I I am in agreement that everything everyone says in that moment is in character It's just that whether or not you want them to speak or not. It's up to you still Yeah So um, but one thing I suggested during the forge that I that I would have preferred is that um So they let the moment Play out fade out and then there's some sort of indication from the others that sorry my dog spark is being annoying Um, there's some sort of indication that they could hear him this whole time But they didn't want they don't maybe they don't even say anything But there's a look on their faces like like they just had to deal with the awkwardness of that Like whether whether quill even finds out the others can feel awkward about it Maybe they go to the private line to say like this is awkward or you know something like that They could be workshops to be done There's joke there that You know in a way that doesn't feel like we're laughing at the expense of quills feelings in this moment because or Or maybe man assist something along the lines of like she compliments how sweet it was and how heartfelt it was And drax is the person who who cuts that you know with his more like it was painful You know, it was painful to listen to that that kind of thing um So I don't know there it's not a bad joke realizing that it was proper or public the whole time on the thing It just we need to polish that stone um So in comes the next joke, which is I'd say, uh, well, I mean, let me post this first so you guys can understand This is the joke. This is how it works They all have suits that are color-coded with orange blue yellow red and green Um, I don't know why I wrote one of them twice And and they've all got buttons on their wrists that match those colors with a black additionally is an expert as well now peter chooses the color of The more suit assuming that each color represents the direct line to each suit But the joke is like no you idiot if you wanted The color you hit was all blue is all and then it's like if you wanted, um Blue is in her suit you go for orange And then they start labeling how all of them were yeah And black is the orange orange is blue yellow is green, you know that sort of thing and um Yeah, and then drax is like no you idiot yellow is yellow green is red red is green Then she's like are you sure and then test it out and like yells and peter's like And then um, he's like how am I supposed to know that and then drax says I thought it was intuitive It's very intuitive. It's very intuitive. What do we think? um It doesn't the joke doesn't make sense that that would be the way it works But I really I laughed at it. I thought it was very funny But it doesn't make sense that they because it's not intuitive like the joke relies on it not being intuitive and not working as you might expect it Um, so how would you deal with the retort? That's did y'all you suck? That's kind of that's kind of where I was going. Yeah, um, it's uh It relies on it It relies on itself in a weird kind of way if that makes sense I like it's it's funny To me like that that got me to laugh But I like I don't see how in this world They would actually do that and then the joke is like, yeah, it's not intuitive and he's saying it is so it It's kind of complicated in a way um Oh crap, I'm sorry me. I like I liked drax's response, but didn't like the setup or anything. Yeah, that's totally fair I think the second she started listening I was like, uh, so the joke's gonna be that none of it makes any sense at all Yes, it's yeah from the instant they started it. You knew the road that we were traveling I don't understand I feel like there needs to be some sense of how it could be intuitive not Based on color but based on number or the order of them or something I think I actually could have been kind of cool if all of the I know shapes match a shape on their suits But the colors something like some of that. Yeah Yeah, like so there's a there's an actual reason to but it's not what you'd expect Yeah, you're you're going off of a different you thought it was one system, but it was actually a different system and you're like, oh That would help quite a bit It's like an alien looking at money and thinking that the faces represent the amounts not the symbols in the corners You know, it's like there's I see why you think that that makes sense. But ha ha ha. No, it isn't um And I think that it slots in for me I don't know if you guys would feel differently into There's a type of joke James Gunn will make every once in a while That I think just uh it overstays us welcome a little bit. Um, wow These are things I think is the top example. He's the number one It's just uh, he found that so funny and I just don't get it All right, man. It's a chuckle at first, but that's about it. Yeah Um, yeah, well, you know, that's that Uh, and they cut a hole in the thing and it starts doing an alert, but then they pop a device on it that stops the alert Which um funnily enough compared to everything else I'm like, yeah, I can buy that that they have some kind of signal jammer that they can put into Something to make it stop beeping that for me like just feels fine Yeah, I mean that yeah, there's a lot in that they played off as it was a glitch or whatever You know pretty standard seems like it's so funny though. It's like Weird uh weird signals on the instruments there. Um, is there any ships outside? It's like, yes, there's like eight Like oh, that's that's interesting Um, so they head in and uh nebula's in I think oh, I think all of them are in drax's lost and he gets stuck Which uh, I think I was like really nebula cut the hole too small Yeah, that was my first thought it's the first thought that comes to mind You know how big drax is you need to make a drax shaped hole And it's just not like you're running out of time. You could have just taken the time to do it And I actually I would probably argue if you said like could you see any of them making that mistake? It's like, yeah, all of them except nebula Probably the only one that I would expect not to make that mistake Um, someone might even ask like without even thinking why you're making it so big and then she's like You know, I mean, you know she could like look over at drax. Yeah Um Oh, I had something written down too that I uh right before the scene that I wanted to bring up sorry, but it was about um the gravity boots and why in particular Uh, it feels like to me. They're suddenly focusing on uh in that scene like gravity like that's ever been a problem ever Well, any any planet they visit it's always gravitationally perfect for them Um, I I think the way that they're they're using them like they're like suction boots They're like gravity boots and ratchets playing first Is he saying that like why would they need to draw attention to it when we normally this is a space station rather than a planet though, right? Yeah, that's my thought They probably have simulated gravity inside but not outside My assumption, um, but also it is. I mean they press the button I will say though It is a flag because it's the final payoff or the big payoff in this film is going to relate to gravity boots So like they want to keep reminding you that those things are a thing Um, so we see hot court welcome back the wonderful jennifer holland. I believe is her name. Is that right? yeah, um I mean, it's just I'm just gonna I'll flag it equally with other people too It's just funny because even james gutter's had to like talk about it on twitter just been like yes My girl friend is in my projects. It's because she's I put lots of people at all kinds of things and that's fine and leave me alone All right. Yeah. All right. I think it wouldn't be anyone near as distracting if she was a well-known name before appearing in all these different places Um, or if she was really really really good Yeah, I was gonna go that direction too, but yeah I don't think she's bad, but she's not so impressive. They're like, okay. I get it. Yeah You know as as opposed to let's say shan gun who I think is very very good I would agree with that. Yeah, he's very good. I really like the uh, I wouldn't call it nepotism But if someone were to call it nepotism, I'd be like, yeah, but he's really good though That's that's wouldn't be the argument with nepotism every time because this is the thing I thought that with her when I saw her and then next scene I see nathan filian pop up and I'm like, ah, he's good friends with james gun That's probably why but nathan filian is also a really good actor. Yeah I think that the reason why he got that role was because he worked with uh, james gun and pacemaker anyone It's to bring him back to do like another role. Mm-hmm michael rooker Yeah Yeah, if the nepotism just gets you in the door and you do a really amazing job and everyone's like I'm so glad that you got this person in because they're amazing. No one complains about it I think people that happen is she's just never made much of an impression except almost like oh, it's you again Yeah, it's like it's you You know and that's sort of where my thoughts begin and end Yeah, all right And it does seem to me that james gun gets in and inordinate amount of criticism for keeping the same actors project to project that So many filmmakers throughout history do this but for some reason people are singularly focused on him Dude mike flanagan Understand he's recycling actors all of them Tarantino Anderson Yeah, it's odd that people because i've noticed It's there seems to be like a level of speculation of oh, who's who's you know? What if james guns friends are gonna get cast in big dc roles? It's like, all right. Let's calm down. All right. Yeah It's all that big deal You might he might actually think that you know, it's it's fine if they don't suck if they're okay and up I don't know Casting decisions as far as i'm concerned. Yeah, look at the look at the cost for you know the suicide squad It's like that's a that's a good cost, you know, yeah, it's yourself with john senor I mean margo robbie is a good actress We can even Strip away What is nepotism truly like a criticism of and it's like well it's a fast track that you didn't have to earn That's what everyone hates about it And it's like well, yeah, I guess that that kind of makes it clear then That's why people don't have an issue with people like michael ricka or athon filian because we know they're doing the fuck out of it Yeah, and they're good and people like working with people to get along with you're gonna have to spend 12 hours a day For like yelling at each other. Yeah The reason why uh james gun like he it seems like he's probably like very Effective as a director in terms of keeping people happy because everybody seems to like working with him Oh, yeah, that's the other thing that's happened like Losing henry cavill and keeping the girlfriend on that's gonna just people are gonna reference that till the end of time Then i think it's gonna be yeah Is understandable as it is because of how Ramen and henry cavill's role was i mean it's pretty clear why that decision is made. Yeah Pretty clear on that decision. Yeah, instead of just some you know, I think that's a part where sort of That's the part where it gets trickier is because it then starts to feel like you pick in favourites If you get some people to stay in some people to go it's like, hmm probably should be all or nothing, right? Um, it's probably really it's probably a really weird situation Oh, sure. Yeah, it's I don't envy I don't envy him in terms of having to figure out how to sort that shit out Someone asked who works 12 hours a day people on film sets do Yeah, people are incredibly long A lot of people. Yeah a lot of people do long as I understand Isn't it like common for television productions, you know, like for network television That's like six days on one day off six day like for weeks and weeks and weeks Yeah, you'll have to you get paid more if you do six in a row like that, you know I was I was on I was a pa on a show for that ran for a few months And it was only five days a week with some six days if we really needed right right something done And it was for me. It was about like 70 hours a week Yeah, people people work like in creative industries that I'm surprised that someone said that it's it's just well known that in creative industries People end up working crazy hours I mean look at all the Talk about video game developers and like the insane amount of long-term crunch that happens on a lot of these productions because It's a creative job. There's a lot of uh, there's a lot of factors that go into play there to facilitate that sort of arrangement well, then She is there. She is the head of security. I think or at least she's operating like a security console and Uh, she detects some weird some of weirds going on in the room that uh, they are entering And so she contacts nathan villian who Did she refer to him as master? I think she does it was throw me off because I wasn't sure if it was like I was mishearing a name or she was actually calling him master which it doesn't really matter in any case she contacts him and says Something weird has been detected and then she says to him i'm i'm gonna check the camera I thought that was so fucking weird Some weird go look. Yeah. Well, like the first thing you do right away Yeah, I feel like you know room whatever is detecting a disturbance like open up the camera It's like no no i'll call some guy to say that i'm detecting a disturbance And then I will open the camera is like, okay Like you have one job to look at the cameras See if anything's wrong and then do something about it And it's really weird To then realize the They didn't they only have one jamming device between the whole team And the reason that this is tense is because uh, obviously drax is caught in the building walls Where the jamming device currently is so until he gets out of there They can't pull it out and thus use it to jam the camera It's like you guys probably should have had two Yeah Problems for you Um In any case there was a line There was a line I liked with uh Because it's just a real thing that happens. I think uh, newton filian's like, um, oh, yeah Have you checked out those new like whatever whatever's so that brand new fuselix core and then the guy goes Yeah, and he's like why I just made that up. So that he's like I thought you said something else that's such a good line. That's such a real Yeah, it feels super genuine. It's super authentic Just their faces So that's good. They just get drax in they grab the jammer and they put it on the eye before just before she checks in So she checks it and it looks clean like it's like jamming it so that it just displays like uh, the room is fine Um And then they like oh shit We have to get rid of our space suits before they come in and check because they've got their um They've got their engineer garb, right which will pass them through basic like checks I guess but their space suits would be if you saw them you'd know that they're not friendly I guess because they're not the Yeah, why are you wearing space suits here when there was a potential puncture and so Question why aren't they using the like vacuum sealed tech that they had in guardians to there's a lot of stuff here a little It's just a little, you know, I had to trade them for the med packs. You would have done the same thing in their position Like Man that that shit like it's it's like nano tech, you know, it's like the black widow face mask stuff Well, this crazy tech that gets it. Yeah, and you're like, wow You have to mention every time It's it's especially frustrating when James Gunn's the one the fucking introduces it. It's like, what do you mean? You did it. Wow. There's another there's another piece of tech you introduced in guardians to that is bizarrely absent and hugely useful, but remember that later I mean because you were talking about the space suits, right like the hockey park I'm talking about the yeah the little space suit that's like the size of it Yeah, the size of a hockey park you can put it in your pocket and it's vacuum sealed You could store that you don't have to worry about disposing in a very in like a hell of a hearty Pocket of a hoodie like you could get a lot of them pair But no, they have to use these weird specific space suits And it doesn't make any sense and then of course Why are we highlighting this is like well because they could just fucking deactivate them put them in their pocket And they're fine. Yeah Because what what happens almost jumping ahead is they put mansus puts them in like a little it looks like a little uh Like storage unit that she puts it in but it's actually just shoots it out into space Oh, so we just said we're star lords helbert. What a great fucking question Yeah, it's gone because unfortunately this film is also in keeping with the trend of making sure that the actors get more face time and Actually, I see you get rid of the helmet the awesome cool star lord helmet Bringy, I'm really glad that you brought that up because there's something that I okay So I like watching movies at a theater asterisk So when I get to the theater on after I stop it come and go and grab my big bag Whatever it is and stuff at my pants to get in I get to the theater And I like to get there a little bit early before things start and I need to stop They just stop doing that because it was almost 30 minutes from 6 30 was the viewing I went to it was just shy of seven When the movie actually started and I think there was like two and a half promos That guardians had before this it'd be like a commercial but it had all the guardian stuff in it And one thing I noticed is that peter quill was absent in all of these because they didn't get the actor for it Right, you get the voices and that's that's duh But he wasn't in any of these But they did have him with they had a guy in a cockpit for one of these promo commercials And he had his helmet on because it covers up his face So you don't actually have to have chris pratt To you know be there and do it you just you just cover it up with a face And I noticed that I'm like, oh you didn't get him. You're just like the other commercials That's not really them and that raccoon doesn't sound he doesn't sound like rocket. He sounds close But ain't a real thing Yeah, um So by the way because I saw someone mention this in chat. I think it's worth bringing up That in the guardians holiday special this ship goes invisible Yeah, well Well, we didn't see that in the film. Nope They would have helped would have helped a lot Actually, um, yeah, I totally forgot about that. They make their ship go invisible while they're like flying around like uh america Jesus But on on the point of the uh on the point of the Yeah, it's annoying that again We're like ditching the helmet because I think the helmet is awesome But unfortunately, that doesn't matter Dollar's helmet was destroyed in volume two but came back in Avengers So I think gun legitimately was planning to keep it destroyed but decided to ignore its presence in infinity one end game Can't do that. Um, yeah, but you can't unfortunately It's really difficult to write out technology if it's a one-off if it's an experiment If it's a magic amulet if it's a ring to rule them all then there's ways to get rid of it Like I can just get a new one. That shit's useful. Yeah, we already know you can get a deal with Companies make it they make more than one For a little while on the vacuum of space like it's because I I mean hit he ain't vacuum sealed You know, like with his his shit It's the same problem that the mandos have but you know that helmet is just useful I mean it protects you from like Shrapnel if there's any explosions or anything it's probably got some like crazy. It's way better than nothing It's I want to mention I don't classify. Well, it's tough, but I don't think I can just or Exclusively classify these as plot issues. This is all character stuff. Like what the hell are they thinking character would have those things Yeah, they should be using their tools, but they don't how exactly we got into this We we get into this especially early on with mando stuff until our brains just accepted it as the hell we live in But characters using equipment equipment is It's a method of like a jet pack isn't just a jet pack It's a way to overcome obstacles that are the writing for the character to get through and if the character doesn't use these plot Plot related objects and it reflects on the character when characters make dumb decisions, right? What what are we to make of that? Like is it a plot problem or is it an imputation on character? Especially we're meant to have any Concepts about a character making intelligent decisions or like even reasonable decisions like this space suits It's just cumbersome. It's a problem Like this is this just makes things trickier But we could use the equipment that we already have That is way more convenient, but we won't and it facilitates bullshit Um, and I was going to say like an easy way to sort of figure this out quickly would be They have a gun, you know on their holster and then it's like in instance one They just never grab it when they're in danger They just never do and it's like so that's just the character's an idiot the gun's right there versus instance two Where they do grab it they do shoot and it jams. It's like oh, so that's the plot That's like things outside their control unless of course they could unjam it But that's I guess I'm Just talking about the fact that like they are not necessarily in control of something versus the thing They are in control of and so it gets to be a problem and the way you cancel these out You have to start doing throwaway lines, but the problem is now we've got so many That it would start to become like a joke like why aren't we using this this this this this and it's like Well because we don't have those anymore You need throwaway lines in this instance for why they're not using like the arrow rigs that could get them around like a lot easier in space Than cumbersome space suits and then you also need a throwaway line for why they're not using the nano tech space suit instead of More cumbersome Like old school space suit that only causes some problems because now they've lost them and they're they're screwed like they're stuck The other alternative of course is creating problems that aren't solved by those older pieces of technology So it doesn't matter, but yeah, these are these are problems definitely solved by these older pieces of tech. Yeah What is the in in the chat it's it's like making motions in the chat There's like in the bottom right there's like a heart and it's like emojis Like what what I click on it and a little heart flies up. What the fuck is that? What does that do? What does that have to do with anything that we're talking about? It's distra it's like moving. What is that? I don't know. I See now, I guess a lot of people are clicking it because I see a bunch of them Is that what it is everyone clicks on those and they just sort of sort of show up How it Some people are saying it's on it's on mobile. So like I don't know what you're talking about. It's on desktop I'm I'm looking at my desktop. I'm looking at it. All right. Okay click on them and they make little things flyer at the fuck All right. I guess I know what it is now. It's just weirdly distracting. Can I turn it off? Not that I don't appreciate people's. I mean it I guess it just is there and that's my life now All right carry on it's just like weird and it's like I see the things over there and I'm like, what is this? Anyway, uh, it's weird to me that the ravages would have wanted to give them the facility like things to get them in But they couldn't they can get them fake engineering suits, but they can't get them the space suits The thing that they seem to be known for like the all-golden people Yeah, so I see it's interesting to introduce to us their suits these very specific and strange ones and then to be like Well, you're gonna have to use these weird rainbow suits that I don't know It's like okay, uh It was it all like do you think they went in after the fact to set up the color joke? Yeah, I think so the only reason they have those is to do that joke which to set up a color joke And also just for a visual I would imagine of like oh look at these vibrant suits. Yep Yeah, they're like little germs on the outside of the skin ship So Then uh, they they know they're coming they got to get rid of these suits You're right and they put them in what looks to just be a storage bin of some kind um And mantis says like well, we'll we'll hide them in here and opens it up and I'm staying that on purpose Because I don't know a little bit, but yeah, uh, they they close it right as Nathan Fillion enters the room with his man and they're like what the fuck's going on here and Uh, star was like what the hell guys. What are you kidding me? A satellite is burning through a hole in the wall and eugenius has opened the door with no precautionary procedures And then he says what procedure bro? Which I thought was strange. Um, and then mantis says do you want us to read the manual for you too, bro? Was this working for you guys? No No What what happens afterward kind of works, but this no No, this one isn't yeah, this one isn't working Because this needs because the point here is that they're trying to be convincing So having a joke to where it's awkward kind of undercuts the fact that they're trying to make this convincing Yeah, the only one that I think lands for that and it's because I would say some character is uh Drax says exactly you idiots and then there's a pause that he goes. I'm angry too Yeah, because that's tracks what he'd say he's going with uh, you know um I I really says um can you see these authentic mechanic uniforms we're wearing on our bodies that blend in with our skin tones some better than others As much as I think one could argue it's in character. I was like surely that's too much like that's gonna That that seems like a little bit too far I I don't like the idea that Drax suddenly isn't good at lying I don't know if that is in keeping with him being literal minded Dude, this is I'm already so far along on this. So I'm just like yep, there he goes. There's funny Drax being retarded That's that's what he does. That's him. Yeah, I don't like that I like it when the joke is in keeping with him being very literal moller. He is dumb We're not there yet, right? That's fair enough. I don't want to go there. That's not a place. I want to go Oh, I don't forget it. Um, why does nebula need one of those suits? Um, I can't why she she struggles with uh, vacuum of space Yeah And guardians too when uh, the ship got destroyed while she was tied up she was starting to get like cake and frost We do get a reference for it in this film as well All right. All right. Gotcha. I didn't I don't like Drax not being any good at all at lying and being convincing But I do like the way that uh quill handles it in response It's almost like if If a character is so I guess simple in that sense they're insanely good at lying because They don't like even really grasp that they're lying and it's so matter of fact and just they just say it so flatly and You know directly is everything else that it comes across as like It comes across as if it's a really bold lie Then like you're trying to you know bluff someone but they're just so Inadvertently good at delivering it in that way Then it would work really well Like you could get Drax to lie to people in a way that would be super convincing That just happens to work with the way he talks and thinks So, uh, yeah, as starwood says, uh, excuse me. He's the boss's nephew or excuse him and he says Oh, I got one of those this one this one over here. He's great. He's going. He's going great I love what he does this one And he like stares at him It looks like awkward everything he does drives me crazy What do we think I like the aliens I like the alien I I I thought this was funny I like the alien's expression and when he says I I thought you said something else like this was about their previous conversation I like that element. That's kind of what I think that's what really kind of sold me I liked it, you know, but um, but I think when the alien still is trying to defend himself like that I think that was really I think that worked for me. It's a matter of I don't believe for a fucking second that they would pass Uh to these people and if they were just to ask them any questions, they would have completely folded Yeah, can I see your id so I can tell him who was assigned to the maintenance? Well, and it's even worse. He's on fucking call with the security lady who now knows he has entered the room and she would see nothing So yes, that's true. Yeah, it doesn't like He talks so much like hey, so was there nothing in there? No, there were several people in there. What are you talking about? Yeah, she was in nothing Do you need a break? Well, so this is what I mean about like it's like cheating and writing. Johnny says when he's leaving he says all clear So it's like you see from his POV. It is all clear. There's nothing to worry about but from her POV She'll be like all clear. He means there's nothing wrong When of course he would report Oh, one of our satellites fucked up and burned a hole in the wall We got five engineers in here trying to fix it and then she'd be like, what the fuck are you talking about? There's no one in the room Yeah, no one in the room all the engineers are at that's that's that like what do you mean? So, yeah, uh, it's just disappointing. It's not clever at all. It's just Yeah You have to like and with every moment this happens. It just makes the organ scope people look so fucking useless Yeah, don't tell me how don't build this up as being super dangerous And that it's going to be really difficult to break into the facility and that this is going to be a big deal And then have them act like this because then it just sort of like I don't I don't believe you um So once they leave then they uh, you know, it's realized like oh fuck the spacesuits of floating outside and um Everyone sees that recognizes it and everyone's like, oh no, and then uh, gemora says, ah, you put it in the contamination bin It expels everything outside when you close the door And I'm just sitting there like bitch you put yours in there, too Thanks captain hindsight. Yeah, like what the fuck like everyone's mad at mantis for this What I was like, uh, you all put it in there. Yeah, exactly I don't even like it's so weird that I don't know I just took the angle here like we we didn't have a choice. We had to get rid of the spacesuits So like there's no point in signing blame like they had to go in there So that's all made the same mistake I was about to say that's the second argument the first argument is how could you pick on mantis when all of you made the Mistake and secondly, what else could you have done? There's nothing else in the room Like yeah, yeah, you caught with them or you expel them that was it Um, and I think it's all just to have another joke, which is um Drax says, uh, are we getting angry again? Like mantis you idiot or something like that or you asshole? I think he says Yeah That's not I don't like that. Oh and I did um nebula says damn it mantis Why don't you ever think and I was like nebula the fuck You're smart enough to understand that that's not applicable here at all Uh, so yeah, I wasn't happy with those interactions or either That quill then reminds them all they need to save rocket, which I always appreciate stuff Um, oh god this it's funny because we are I think you could say we're into act two. So, you know, three hours and 20 minutes isn't so bad Yeah, it's not too bad, but I feel like the film gets more and more dense as we go. So yeah, um So uh, gamora is leading them because of course, she knows where she's going and she says me and quill are Going to get the cards the the ass card thing bug and doofus access the spaceport through the elevator so tree can get us out of here I hated this You know their Names not that i'm not i'm mostly fine with that because 20 i'm just trying to it's sometimes it's hard To like remember where we're picking up from So she says you two have to go get the key card. Um She and quill are going to get the key card. She's going to send Uh mantis and drax to go down the elevator into the spaceport and prepare so that groot can land the ship in there and pick them up Um, is that just something they can do? It's so don't you need to communicate that with? Yeah, that's the development of the thought the where where you'll end up eventually is realizing They need to go as a team everywhere and that mantis is the most important member of their group at all times Is you can touch someone and you like all people to help you forget the last two minutes What they should do is go grab uh, we know, um, Nathan fylian's character They should have had mantis hold his hand or even they're like, oh there's someone on your face hold it and go like, um You know you are whatever mantis has to say you're completely in love with all of us or you'll you respect us So much you'll do everything we say that that sort of thing and then just start infecting everyone on the ship But the higher the rank the better I don't see how that's not the way you would just do this and you would actually have full control over the entire station Yeah, you you're about to use it to essentially get in the front gate. So I mean like abuse it that shit ain't on cooldown Are we sure mantis is able to do this? Yeah, we see her do it in the film Yeah in the in this facility even just in why less useful instances. We'll see it in a moment Yep, this is actually the next significant thing she does so Really annoying because it uh, what it was the next challenge for quill and gemora. It's to convince someone to do something for them Uh, I mean from prior films. She puts ego to sleep the living planet It wouldn't matter anyway if it's established in the same film If it would be right like we just highlight as a flaw within the film anyway and also she puts Thanos to sleep I may I'm willing to bet someone could be like that sounds different than saying like you will do everything Um, there's a meaningful difference with those. It's just that we see her do it in this film So it's just too late Doesn't matter. Yeah Oh, it wasn't baby e-fab should have written the directors of this movie to show james gud how it's done It's like at least don't get the impression that that's a flaw. We try to say Yeah, that's that's that's kind of view of the sentiment but uh Not even close. Okay. I I do not know how to make a big old movie like this. I just like to If if they put us in charge of a movie We'd have to be like, all right We need to hire people to tell us how shit works around here because I don't know anything about this process I am just a guy who watches the final product. All right. I don't know how to do any of the actual stuff I don't know how to I don't know how to how a camera works Yeah, the complicated creatures, okay um So yeah, we follow drax and mantis first they head down and uh, they meet up with like a god And he's like, whoa, I need to see it passes And then uh, she says she grabs his hand and says you are madly in love with him Being drax And you know, I think it's fun at least we get to see this in action once and it's something relatively useful It just highlights how fucking stupid everyone is in terms of their approach here because I could have done so much more but The guy the guy is like deliberately portrayed as this like beefy god who looks you know Intimidating and then he's just like, how are you doing today? What was your name again? And I quite love that. He asked him like, what was your name again? Yeah By the way And uh drax, I just I just think he does awesome delivery of drax. Oh, yeah the destroy Like like very shyly giving it away because he's like super awkward about it. He's like, oh, it's such a lovely name Um You know, it's this is definitely another example of james gunn's comedy for when he's walking away He says, oh my name is bleedle snort Like of course it is I'll be here when you get out by the way. Yeah Um There's one shot that happens here and I was gonna I'm bringing it up specifically to ask everyone here what it's supposed to mean Mantis is walking past somebody and they're eating the thing that they were eating at the beginning of the film When they all share like a it's like a thing on a stick Um, she sees some guy eating it and she looks sad and then she moves on What is up with that Was the point something like it's reminding her of better times? Because they were eating one in the And essentially the opening scene, but it was like dead and cooked and this one's blue. So I don't know I don't I don't I legit don't know what exactly this is supposed to mean The only thing I've got is that it reminds her of when they were all together eating something and it was chill And she said all I got. Uh, yeah that I don't know what else it would you All right, I mean if that's what it is. I don't hate it, but it is kind of strange Yeah, I was just trying to find if there was something more to it than that or if I'm just Maybe it's not anything at all. I don't know You're back Um, oh, was it the it was eating? Like a praying mantis maybe I'd have to check it Maybe that's it I don't know Um, so yeah, uh, we we go back to the security station then and um Our court is watching them and she says wait don't those two match the warning we were given So that's all we get and so I assume the high evolutionary worn that gave them all like wanted posters for the guardians, right? I guess that's all I can assume is happening there which kind of now introduces the problem of Why isn't this place on high alert for the specific information that they know that the guardians want? And why isn't there a trap in an ambush set here? They know everything. What's going on? Yeah, I thought there would be and was disappointed that there wasn't one And to the point now where they're getting foiled because they're like wait that looks like the Descriptions of the people that the high evolutionary warned us about Sounds it's just so like uh, okay Yeah, and uh, they get caught because of that. Uh, the police start coming down on them. It's like, oh dear Um, so anyway, we're over to the quill in gamora side of things And they need to get info from a secretary and quill suggests that he like uses charisma on it And uh, this this was where I started to lose it in terms of what the fuck is going on with gamora Um So quill walks up and he's like, you know, I've seen you Can you around I've seen the way you look at things and he's like he's just doing a line He's setting it up and like halfway through it. Gamora just bumps in aims a gun at her and says like Where is the blah blah blah blah blah and then he's like, whoa, what are you doing? And then she says uh, your plan was never gonna work And I was just sitting there like fucking This isn't gamora Yeah This isn't 2014 gamora. This is this is some weird angry rage worthy psycho gamora. And I don't know why she's doing this What why would she have thought that was a good idea? She gave him like five seconds And you know that level of overcorrection that you were talking about Like I was really pleased that they didn't go the low key route Yeah, and actually, you know walk down the path of reset her into the way that more right, but it's just so far gone She's she's psychopathic. I had no idea what the hell was going on and she's like actively harming their plan um But like no reason then you just have him sort of trying to explain to her how she's she's behaving so differently from Regular gamora and I think the film wants you to be like, yes See like he just doesn't understand that she's lived a different life now. And you're like, yeah, but we didn't see that life We don't know what's going on here. She's just some new person um All right, I was not losing my position Because there's a couple of things that happen really quickly here that uh, that's to make it all complicated One thing is that is she actively harming their plan because doesn't this work and what the movie Tells us that what chris prat was doing wasn't working when you uh, when you go from Trying to seduce slash Arithmeticize I don't know what word i'm looking for there. Um a person to get you information or at least give you access to something Like if star lord had been like i've got a friend who's dying um, and You know, I know there's loads of red tape behind getting access to a particular piece of information But if you know just trying that or even getting the next steps to it like if she said you're gonna need um a passive blah blah blah are you gonna need blah blah blah but to Shout at her and point a gun at it like we don't know it basically invites all the options of like silent alarms or her locking up completely or the Like uh her now knowing that she can try and subvert you instead of work with you It's just like it increases all the risks those things. Oh for sure. Yeah Um, which would have been a viable option possibly depending on what her answers would have been but she didn't even wait for that She was just like nah, this is not gonna work which I don't even like I like I said, I don't think it would match her morally but also just intelligently Um Because of course we do find out that it's strange to let him start down this particular road and then not let him Find out whether it was even working or not yeah So, um, we find out. Oh wait, we don't find it out yet. They collect the thing they get it, um, which I think at this point because it's like trying to format this correctly because at first I was like, how the hell did they get that when the high evolutionary new and it's like well to be fair The thing they need isn't in it and it's like well, but Sure, but like still why It'll be a thing that they need to go to or will likely go to also question. Why isn't there just a tracker in there Something I don't know that'd be clever. Wouldn't it? Yeah Um, so he says this is not you Gamora. You had a higher purpose to help people That's why you left Thanos and that's why you formed the guardians Then she says I didn't form the guardians and I barely left Thanos I thought was really strange. It's like first of all barely left him like you left that recently You definitely left that as you barely leave him That's the the only way I think you could salvage that if she means to mean it in the sense of I recently left him Which is well, that's not even true Is it not then by how many years has she been with her? Do they say that she's been the renavagers now for two years? I mean, I guess it's I guess it's not like recently is a Um, but you know, I'm not sure well In any case saying like I didn't form the guardians. It's like yeah, but Because it's so weird to be on star lord's side, but the movie isn't If you know what I mean, like I'm with him. I'm like, yeah, you did those things and then she's like I didn't do those things like no, but Those were just actions and events that were the results of your values. They're not they're not things you had to do They're not the same as um, what gamora had to go through They're not the same as what loki had to go through a lot of these events took place with her pushing for them You know, you could argue that these events are what change star lord and rocket more so to being moral joystick, but She uh is the one that's trying to facilitate those events and I just that's the miss I think that this film has on gamora as a character So, yeah, um the all gone all gone the scope security comes down on everybody They were all pretty much captured at this point and we get an action scene starting up because uh, I think mantis says she wants to run, but drax says he wants to fight fight. Yeah, so then Uh, she does some flippy flippy flips and mantis lands on someone and first says you're a kitty cat And then they start going like meow Then she jumps on someone says you want to dance So he does And then she jumps on the third person and says you want to shoot with rage And then they start spinning around just firing their gun and starts hitting Don't you say you want a violent psychopath or something like that or violent rage? Violent rage Can you think of any very dumb The third one is not like the others. Yeah, one of these things is not like the other It's not incapacitating one and having them do their own thing. This is mantis Like shoot indiscriminately a great deal around all through them. Absolutely idiotic Um, I know they're funny, but why wouldn't she grab them and say you love me and want to protect me Is the idea here that she wants to she doesn't want them to fight each other because she doesn't want to kill them Clearly not with the third one. That's what I'm that's what I'm saying here Is that why would she that third one is so because if she did that to everyone And there was this element of they're just security doing their job and she doesn't want to hurt them I'd be like, okay, I guess that's what I can pull from that kind of a suggestion But the third one is so different That it's kind of confusing and weird Like what are you what are you trying to do here? Well, she has to just keep jumping jumping jumping and asking them to protect her and go after the others and eventually she would win Doesn't just get shot obviously, but the the idea is the more she infects quote-unquote the better her chances are I think it this might be a case of that problem people have where they don't want things to be repetitive You know like like in dr. Strange 2 where it's like, oh, we can't have him using the same powers over and over again Yeah, we can't slice another tentacle off. We already use that Like I said, I understand the what you gain from this It's like ha ha that guy's acting like a cat that guy's accidentally just dancing And then we have the visual of them spinning around screaming and shooting while the guy's just dancing It's like it's all very funny. We're damaging a character by doing this It's definitely not the third one especially the other two It's like I could understand her thinking that something like that takes them out of the fight In a way that's perfectly serviceable. I can understand her I can I can understand her not putting like not having the thought that oh, you want to protect me at all costs Like I can understand her that that would be the smartest thing to do But I can understand her not coming up with that idea But that you will go into a violent rage and start spraying in every direction with your gun That's so unbelievably stupid Yeah So let me come back to Gamora dealing with her issues with The quill and nebula nebula is here the whole time as well, by the way They They're surrounded by the orgo people and as they're arriving Um I don't know why they put this in it's so weird. She uh, uh nebula shoots one I think in the chest. So he's pretty much dead and then, you know quills like whoa I think he's like, oh god, your plan is just to start killing people Which again, I just don't think Only less than uh, Gamora, but whatever this is new Gamora um As they're like moving through the room she takes hostage the uh, the secretary lady Like we'll blow it brains out if you come anywhere near us or attack us And then she says kill the one that looks like a carrot to show them we know business Um, they already did kill one just now and also there's I they because they start like stunning people later because have they been like Stunning people before this was that guy stunned I think she's just shot him with a regular blaster shot. Um In any case, well, it's the same gun she uses later to wound our court Yeah, I assume it's a kill gun not a stun gun But in any case, I just don't like it's a setup for a joke. It's the guy who looks like a carrot Laugh man I I don't know like I get Mildly amusing on a very surface level. I just um expression. It's just it's like, okay They fucking confuse me a lot of these jokes when she's like, we've got to kill the one that looks like a carrot to show We mean business. I'm just sitting there like this fucking dead guy on the floor. What do you mean? Already like and it's like, yeah, but it's a funny joke. It's like write it better Yeah, like make the joke like make sense like it Like I get it the jokes. It's fine But I guess but like it there needs to be he needs to be the first to potentially get killed if that's the case So that makes sense Um, so they got into an elevator they're heading down and star lord says We used to be in love. She was my girlfriend She doesn't remember because it wasn't her because her dad threw her off a magic cliff and she died And then I lost my temper and nearly destroyed half the universe and she came back out of the past There she is everyone else who died in the past stayed dead, but not her. Why was it the magic cliff? I don't know. I'm not some freaking infinity stone scientist Just some dumb ass earth due to metagirl fell in love and that girl died and then came back a total dick No thoughts Um Is this the first time we have peter acknowledging that he stood in the way of essentially them stopping the Yeah, um, I feel like this is not um an appropriate way to talk about that It's um, it's so interesting to think about because you are absolutely right The amount of emotional weight that is in this speech when you really think about it that's not been dealt with or talked about Um, this is part of the many things that make me think like Man guardians three could have been so much more It would have been yeah, we because I don't recall peter ever talking about the Thanos thing Um, this seems to be his first time referencing it. Mm-hmm Yes, I understand. He's kind of like in this weird desperate situation talking to Gamora But it's been years for you to kind of process all this and it's the first we're seeing of it It doesn't quite feel fair, you know, kind of to the audience to not get that sort of understanding and payoff Uh, especially because it's weird that he Like it'd almost be better if he didn't like mention it so that we could That he'd gotten over it in some other way or there was still some closure that he needed to work through I mean, it should have been a big element of the film period But I feel like this is I mean sometimes it's better to not shoot than to miss Uh, yeah, what the scene feels like to me is a very meta Comment from James Gunn who was annoyed at everything everything they saddled him with yeah from end game That's what it feels like the most and I am sympathetic to a degree But I don't think it excuses not acknowledging that's an explanation not an excuse I'm always so much more impressed when a writer can fix up and improve Material they've been handed as opposed to crying about it I understand. I appreciate like, you know making fun of something that's bad. I totally do but There's so much you can use in here and instead he's like This was this was all stupid and dumb the fact that he said everyone else stayed dead, but she didn't it's like no, they're all back In fact, she's the only one that isn't back Isn't isn't wait, isn't that what he's saying though the opposite? No, well, he said everyone else who died in the past stayed dead, but not her Except they didn't what I'm saying is she's the one that actually stayed dead everyone else came back Oh, I said what you said. Yeah, that's the thing. It's like that situation I thought he said what you said I guess I'm just misremembering it because that's what would have made more sense I think also the impression I'm getting is he's implying a frustration that she Gamora didn't They're like in terms of a writing way Gamora is back when she shouldn't be you killed her like that's his complaint For the realities. I don't think because like star lord, I guess doesn't know about all the stuff with vision But to be fair, I don't even know if James Gunn knows all those stuff with vision The fucking makers of doc strange 2 clearly didn't remember the stuff with vision so I thought what he's Maybe I misheard it But what I thought he was saying was that everyone who died came back except for her Like everyone who was snapped came back, but she doesn't come back Um, I've I think I So I've written it down as a quote So I'd have to check the scene again if I've written it wrong, but he says everyone else who died in the past stayed dead not her That's the opposite Yeah, everyone who died in the past Okay, now I'm just confused I'm not as far as I'm concerned He's he's lamenting the fact that she's come come back while everyone else got like Almost that sounds like a writing complaint to me Like that James Gunn is saying like everyone else the characters are fucking dead I've got to deal with someone who's come back who's not even her Gotcha The funny part of course being the Loki's back in his own tv show vision is back as of wander vision Black widow is anyone that stayed dead for real There's something that bothered me about the fact that he is like the character is Passively saying this so that Gamora is hearing it and I just don't understand why like he's essentially taking it out on her Because like he does realize it's not the same character Yeah, but he's also very annoyed at her for like Like messing up his plan earlier and for threatening to kill people because he really doesn't want to As far as I'm concerned, she shouldn't he's like he's like angry because she's doing shit. She shouldn't be doing and I agree with him I don't know why she's doing this shit That's that's yeah, who are you? Yeah But like it's I think james gunn is trying to sell it to us. It's like, yeah Well, that's human nature, you know like she's not the same Gamora and I'm like True, but also not true. I mean, she's the old she's whatever the old one would have become Which is definitely not a fucking ravager Not an angry ravager wants to kill people. Let's go around and kill people. Yeah Um, yeah, because it's weird they uh, they open up the elevator They go into the security room and she shoots Hardcore in the leg and she's like, ah, and then quills like, oh, what are you doing? And again? I'm just like, what is she doing? Yeah Right and so then things get weird and uh, we kind of referenced this a little a few hours back. I assume Uh, we got some music on some fun music. I forget the track is playing at the time And drax is throwing people around and it's like, hey, because he's doing his signature He's like fighting And then the music calms down. We go super slow mo Nathan fillion is there with a big fucking sci-fi gun blasts it and then we get like a From the soundtrack as as drax flings across the room and slams into a wall and he's uh lying, you know Down in like a fucking weird flesh thing. I don't know. Yeah, and uh, we have a shot of Mantis looking terrified and it's like Am I am I alone in a super at this point? It's like, oh, shit. They're gonna kill drax. Here we go I was uh When I when I was watching it I was I was surprised and it was like, oh shit like this early. Oh damn That's uh, that would be subversive unexpected dramatic These were the thoughts that I had at the time Well, I shall continue with the presentation Oh, we get some more booms like very serious stuff and mantis runs up to him and he says run Very very stereotypically. He's storytelling a signal that like I'm out. You've got to go And then she gets him up They're trying to hobble away and it's slo-mo still and the choir starts cranking up and Nathan Philly is behind him again aiming the shot and boom And uh, again still slo-mo. He slams to the ground. She's looking terrified. They're screaming at the background And it there's this shot where drax eyes closed face flat on the floor and I was just like Wow Is he dead like Shit man, I wasn't sure I feel about it as like a storytelling decision at this point But I mean, it's worth just saying no, he's fine Yeah, like he's okay. This will have no lasting impact on him physically or psychologically The assumption is they got back to the ship and he got a med pack and he's fine I guess yeah, because the even tendency to do that They do like the triumphant. Yeah, we're the guardians and we're leaving now And I'm like, oh, I we're okay then false alarm false alarm everybody. We're okay. We're actually fine And I assumed james would be like, well, yeah, I had you for a moment. They didn't I I should be like sure fucking Yeah, you did you really did you had me And then you didn't so let me tell you about a story called the boy you cried while It's very relevant because Every time this shit happens the subsequent time. I'm just gonna be sitting there confused and then I just won't believe you And uh, that's not good. I think that absolutely fucking annihilate stakes when I don't believe you when you show people trouble It might be worth stating very clearly. I would imagine I know this was the case for more on rhymes But imagine it's the case for everybody here There was expectation of like there was expectation of some uh I think some people are not making it to the end Um, I I don't think that those expectations were unfounded. I think that those expectations were in some part reinforced by Uh, the way that this film was spoken about before it came out Yeah, absolutely. Just the nature of a trilogy of heroes coming to an end um I going into this I was thinking there there are two big targets on some backs here And I think for me for me. I think the the two big targets were on rocket and drax I think those were the two who had the biggest targets And so I went into this thinking Like I'm kind of not expecting it But sort of expecting it. I was I didn't think that every one, you know You know, yeah, we're avoiding spoilers. Like I guess we're sort of already implied Well, so all that all that needs to be implied at this point is it's is you had me there You really had orchestrated that entire scene and like edited it and you know with the music in a way to get me to Feel a certain way and then it's just like nah nah Nope, gotcha That's lame Yeah, like I I like if Like I feel this is sort of Tarantino like nervousness and my bones And I don't appreciate, you know, these kinds of things happening um But uh, okay, I guess we're carrying on and everyone's all right. Okay, that's good Yeah, what I didn't mention too was in the middle of this scene with all the like production elements I was talking about nebula is shot in the back and she falls to the ground and spits up a bunch of blood And then puts her hands up to like surrender like she's surrendering Yeah, it's like genuinely speaking if you'd ask me what's the most hurt you've seen nebula I'd be like, I think it's there. I'm not sure It's either here or You know before in the opening fight scene when she was hit with a fucking rocket in the first movie Then she gets up like a mangled corpses go I was like, well, she's mostly fine there when she's on the floor Spitting up blood and say like please stop. I'm like, oh shit. That's oh shit. Yeah Something real bad's happening, huh? You're communicating something to me Where that I'm going to be comparing to other things that you've shown me in prior films But like for instance, you know, like uh in infinity war right with Thanos when she's getting pulled apart So yeah, that's another sort of point of reference for what does it look like when nebula? Yeah, that's more in trouble. I was like pain versus close to death. I would reference is that one Well, when she's coughing up blood, you know, and I've never seen her cough up blood before And then and then it's just oh, no, she's fine. Like she's fine It's not you don't have to do much like because when a character is shot in the back And then we have a shot of them coughing and blood comes up. It's like, oh What what does that mean? What are you telling me? They're seriously injured. That's what that means. Usually. Yeah But apparently what it meant was not that She's fine. She's fine. So fine. They're fine A couple things I too hate the fake outs. I think the fake outs are really lame I also had the feeling watching this movie that there are certain characters that could die And that I wouldn't be shocked if they did but maybe we want to save this for later I don't feel like there's any problem in in Maybe thwarting those expectations. Um, we're probably gonna agree on the broad statement We're not going to agree maybe on the specifics because I think this is flawed right now to bait That hard and to miscommunicate that hard to have like something completely different happen Um, I'm not going to talk about moccasin. I'm just talking about within the movie No, I I that's why I started with I agree that the fake outs are lame. It's fuck Like the fact we're like, uh, yeah, let's say Let's say theoretically no one was to die in this movie. That is absolutely fine as a possibility. Yes If anything to be clear the notion that death is like the only or the most Rotten way to like, you know get certain emotional beats It's almost like no, you can no not necessarily. There's other options I am very glad you guys said that because I have seen that argument quite a bit I I I understand where that argument comes from but like I think that everybody can think of like stories where you know Like characters don't need to die for it to be dramatic or weighty or like Yeah Yeah, so fucking funny in uh, some people May take the little airplane visits to to india to watch this film. That's totally chill if you want to do that It's absolutely fine And uh, sometimes in those visits you'll catch little things from the audience You know because you're in a cinema and that's what happens and when drax falls over There is an actual voice you could hear on the recording. This says Oh, he's dead, bro In english Yeah That's great Oh, he's dead, bro No, he's not but he's fine Yeah, I think what I what I hate most about let's let's focus on this particular case the fact They bait his death is not so much of that. He's in a really sticky situation. You think he might die and he doesn't It's that there's no consequences Nope Yeah, this is consequential but from a film making standpoint the film is conveying at that moment. Holy shit Well, this would be a kind of a classic case of having a cake and eating it too, right to put us into that emotional state But to not have the consequences of it Yeah, yeah, this this is a more subtle version though I guess compared to like what we saw with everything that's happened after end game With bringing all of these characters back to life of a much more You know close to literal sense of doing that Or like as as as much as you can push in terms of oh that character did die But now they're back and that's cool. This is like different to it. Oh, they're you thought they were gonna die Gotcha. Anyway, I don't even I don't even necessarily have a problem with The the film treating it like holy shit Is he gonna die here? And if he's like severely injured for a next segment of the movie You know, I mean, well what happened with rocket, right where it's like, oh, shit, you know He's out of commission for the rest of the pretty meaningful to have Rocket in his position and then to move Drax in there as well on like life. Yeah That would be a lot. Maybe You know peter's like Jesus like what the hell? Yeah, you know Yeah, I would be fine with it if that's what they want, you know Yeah, I would I would have been happy with that but it is inconsequential It was nothing it was just to get that feeling out of you But then move straight along and I don't know you watch at the second time around, you know Like how does that how does that scene make you feel? Annoyed Yeah, I mean that's that's what I'd say So, uh with that happening he just like oh, I gotta do something. So he says to the Ratcatcher, please Sign me into the system and tap me into them so that I can speak to them from my heart And I know that if they hear what I have to say that they'll Understand my situation and he convinces it. And so she does and she says, okay Here's like the speaker or whatever say what you gotta say your piece or your truth Whatever, she said something and then he says how did you just speak to them? I just wanted to get into control of the suits that he moves the thing away and then starts typing and I was like Um, first of all, this is this is the lesser issue. I was just like probably could have just threatened a killer and she'd do that I imagine it's worked before but I guess, uh, it's interesting to see that he actually managed to get through to her that way, but Secondly what she's done apparently He asked her to sign him in so that he could speak and they would hear him What she's done is sign him in so that now he has full control over their suits It's like, okay, those are the same. I don't even know why there is full control over their suits. Like really weird Secondly He hits a button. They all go And we play fun music, which by the way so soon after the big tragic moment. I was just like, all right fine I guess like it. I that was my signal. I was like, so everyone is fine then. Okay. That was weird um That is a totally fair tonal complaint that I agree with And I just I'm not I'm not saying it's fair because I agree with it, but I think that's That's a case of like, oh, they wanted this dramatic beat and then the change in tone totally undermines It's like it's so obvious. I think James would tell you he's like, well, no, that's me revealing to you that it isn't Sad nothing sad is actually happening. We're good. We're fine. We've made it because peter came up with something pretty clever Yeah, and I guess that just it mostly ties into the fact the the big problem being that it was inconsequential, but Yeah, um that that change in tone just reveals how inconsequential it was which totally undermines the moment I guess I uh I the the idea that that's meant to be like, you know in adventures when they start to lose the babble It's like I really didn't get that. No, I didn't get it from that. I got I got the vibe of oh, shit Someone's like about to die Um, he sets it and he very smugly is like, ah, there you go. My plan worked and camora was like, uh, and then they both leave the room Racketch is still in there. Yeah, she could just undo what he did and then all of them go back to the same position I was just like fucking hell Mm-hmm That's uh, this whole sequence man. Well that I was gonna say and then they leave so that's about it and yeah God damn Yeah, like what is there's really like a couple of lines here in there and that's it the rest of it's fucking terrible This part's really shit. It's it's piss. Yeah, it's total piss I mean, I don't know like There are some fun jokes, but that that's it's not enough Yeah, no and and to be honest with you. It's uh once we find out What they gained from it like fuck dude Yeah Once we find out what we know what we gained from it's like oh, shit That was like actually you we could have caught that completely Yeah, really if we if we wanted to make some like revisions to the script you could just get rid of this completely um Which takes us to a scene I imagine Something the well, I got released separately this one. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's the four Little critters having to chat with each other About how they feel about the state of things This scene. I really like it Yeah, pretty popular one. I would say uh Good it starts with them The new world will have sky and it'll be beautiful and then They start talking about their names and he's like since you guys Yeah, I think tiffs i'm giving them their names before they've even given them their names But he says uh, he says something like since you guys are my closest friends. I thought you might be interested in knowing I've been thinking So funny It's it's definitely like an almost like Winnie the Pooh kind of thing to say like piglet I want you to know i've been thinking Um, and she says all the pull the trigger piglet because we're heading to the new world. We're gonna need names So he names herself lila um Then uh, the walrus goes with tiefs. He says although we do all have them. I know the most prominent Yeah, I like him. He's funny Um, uh, it's a small complaint, but where does lila get her name from? Um, I assume that there is a nice sounding name or maybe that's something for us to think about why would that be Maybe maybe that was like maybe, you know, maybe that was some human that she knew I assume that they are when they're given speech and their new brains and stuff or the brains are tinkered around with There are they almost have like language injected into them So that they have like concepts and understandings of how the language is to some degree Instead of having to like figure it out from scratch Yeah, I suppose I get the other ones. It's obvious where they get it from so I was just kind of curious about hers I wonder if that like we just don't get the connection. What does What does Oh, yeah, that's probably with wow. What does lila mean lila means like lilac is that where it comes from? Let's see Lila is a feminine name that has arabic german persian and sanskrit origins plenty of meanings to this is for baby names come out there the Coming from the arabic name leila this name translates to night and is sure to help Baby embrace the beauty of the darkness It's from it's from a name thing for kids. So I'm like that's just smart was just like jeez Yeah, it it it's it's a girl's name of arabic hindi persian origin meaning night or play Okay Which has to do with the sky but Um sort of uh, but Um, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I I don't know. Um Person word meaning possibly dark beauty The bunny says me is lying on a floor. My name is flaw. Her english isn't as good as the rest of them But you can definitely no understand what she's saying I like that one too. It's funny to me Because it's kind of it's funny because if you have no concept of such things you might go That actually does sound like it could be kind of a pretty name Yeah, you don't know about like social conventions and what people are normally named Um like floor is like well i'm on the floor so I think that is literally because her name is lila in the comics like oh that could be it. Yeah I I mean sure but like I think the spirit of it was what does it mean to uh No, of course what they're saying is that that that's going to be why it was chosen not necessarily for a meaning Oh, sure. Sure. Yeah, I think she's the only one who doesn't explain why she names herself that so Because everyone else explains why what their names are why they chose them But I don't think she explains why she chose that name She seems like she's been thinking about it a long time because she yeah, it's her idea to name them all So It's not that I don't buy it. I just I'd be curious to know And this seems like they only like lila does have comic book origins, but the other two do not appear Have comic book origins Her name is lila powers and she's actually Well, she's from a planet called half world. Um, so james guns mixed it in so that she's from Uh counter earth instead, but yeah Is she from counter earth? I would assume they were all from um, I They're all credits from earth and I thought they may have been from out There's an interest in earth like the fact that it's counter earth. I think they're all from earth He's like dr. Cortex with all of his critters in there Well, we'll see a we'll see a label later on in the movie and it says the place of origin So dude high evolutionary is similar to cortex He gets a bunch of out of holes to do experiments on them The difference is that cortex wants them to be in his army and he wants crash to be the commander of his army And high evolutionary high evolutionary and talk to do your cortex Part doesn't cry So then rocket says Someday i'm gonna make great machines and fly and me and my friends are gonna go flying together Lila teeth's flaw and me right you you miss you missed a part of the line I probably have I don't have full quotes, unfortunately Oh damn because I like the I like the full quote because he says it's a forever and beautiful sky And I don't know why but I really like that specific like way to describe The world out there. Yeah, it's limitless possibility. It feels like a big appeal to freedom Yeah, exactly. Um and then adventure. Yeah And yeah, he says his name is rocket Yeah, I I don't mean for that Like that's so good It's great. It's great. Yeah, it is Well, I mean, maybe we're far out of a lot to talk more about it But I mean as I just my reveal is that that's probably my favorite scene and I like all the animal scenes It's my favorite scene as well. Um when when moller and I were uh, we we talked very briefly, uh For uh for just a little bit before I think this is like hours and hours ago before I slept and He asked what my favorite, you know, were there any scenes that I consider my favorite And then he was like that aren't the animal scenes. I was like, oh that makes it harder. Yeah Well, I mean it's I mean, yeah, they are they are really well made well written like well executed and very important in terms of uh this film and they are the scenes that I think have the best Tonal sort of balance Um out of all of them. They're like the most Like sound on that front. Uh, and then of course like I really like rockets. So getting more stuff for rocket I that just makes me, you know, that like that's what I want Yeah the the highs that come from all the stuff with rockets origin are like They make they make the whole film worth it for me even though The plot is well, and it's gonna get worse, but like this is the stuff that I That is totally makes the movie for me is incredible. I mean if this wasn't in the movie I have to completely disagree do it I I really do enjoy the scenes and I think they're really good like this is fantastic stuff. Um, but I also hate the fact that this has to happen now in the third movie the sixth appearance. I feel like it's If it was going to happen, it should have happened some other at some other moment in the chronology and They understand what they're doing with it. Uh, that it's setting up, you know, how important friends are to rockets. Um And that's the crux of the story compassion and friendship. James Gunn even said that himself But all the same like I you have so many brilliant characters that have to have their finale now And I wanted to see more about their relationship with each other Um, and I like I just didn't feel like I got that with this movie like I wanted to see more about Quill and rocket together like their best friends and you don't really get that and I just feel like this was It feels so separated all the same like even though, you know, it helps out the primary story Um, I'm actually There's an irony here of like I think there's bloat to this film, but I wouldn't I wouldn't even cut a second of the animal stuff. I would have cut out the entirety of the orgo scope thing. Yeah I think my biggest agreement My biggest my biggest agreement with you here is that I think the fact that the whole Thrust of the narrative is peter trying to save rocket is like a nice way of Developing their friendship and stuff like that. You know, I mean, it's it's very straightforward, but it's incredibly powerful. Something Something I would say to actually bolster. Well, to some extent the the point that you brought up with uh the absence of interaction between our rocket and the team At least so far in the film something that's interesting to note is that I can't I'm actually forgetting if I've said this Like today or on the other uh, like when I was on open bar It's a four hours. So maybe um But uh, it is actually kind of surprising Guardians one rocket is interacting with the team a bunch guardians, too He separated for the team from a good portion of the movie Infinity war he separated from the team for a good portion of the movie hanging out with thaw And endgame is with the avengers. It's actually been a while since uh, Yeah, you've had rocket like with the full team like interacting. It's actually been kind of a while Yeah, no, right. I think but that's a bigger complaint. I have about two than three Because the way that it's rated in two is kind of stupid This one is much more meaningful. I like him and yondu though. Um, yeah I like him This does honestly is to speak to how good rocket is that you could throw him with a whole bunch of different characters And he's great with everybody. He's great with yondu. He's great with thaw Um, yeah, he's really awesome But I think right now Go ahead, you know, like where we're at in the MCU rockets like top tier compared to everybody else You know basically compared to all of the other characters I haven't written my script for my review yet. So like I haven't fully articulated my argument on it but like it It's a difficult thing for me to Break down because like I really do love the scenes But I just feel like it doesn't work for me in this movie because it's just because of the fact I know I'm not going to see these characters again And I'm like, this is what you chose to do for the finale And like yes, I totally agree rocket is top tier character at this point. I love this character It's really bolstered by it. So it's like it's hard for me to suss out like Where I would have put this in Chronological order with their stuff, but I don't know. I just don't feel like it belongs here I think the the problem is that um at this point It was kind of something that I think a lot of people myself included wanted to actually know something about because we've been It had been it's something that's been set up as a threat in the first two films We haven't gone anywhere with it yet Or we what we did in those first two films was like what is we were observing like the effects of his past The fact that he's incredibly standoffish like needlessly callous Uh, sometimes like doesn't really want to help or Like be part like it we we see the consequences of what happened to him And so it is it's I think it's worthwhile to see what did happen to him So that we get like a really full picture of this character, which I think but You know, this is what we're getting at this point in the film, you know It's like damn. We're getting like a full picture of who rocket is Yeah, I'm all for it Yeah, well, well, I was about to say something but I guess it's arguably a spoiler. So Um, I'm I'm like this is a tough juggle because uh, I think those scenes do a great job of Contextualizing how much we should hate the high evolutionary as well. He's the villain of this film, you know Oh, yeah, um, I seriously wonder if maybe we could tweak it all around so that We can try and get most of rocket stuff with flashbacks Could we get rockets flashbacks and have rocket in the story instead of in a coma? Like probably right I would have been more satisfied with that route because they do like these aren't completely useless scenes at all Like, uh, I don't want to spoil anything, of course, uh, but you know, they But they do with the uh with the high evolutionary and everything like this is incredibly important and these these scenes hit me But all the same I just still feel like they Like this would have made a really cool Disney plus special or something like, you know to really flesh out his story. This would have hit just just the same for me Um, I think the context of him being near death um And thinking about these things is important. I agree And also thinking about it like tying into high evolutionary as like the big bad He seems worthwhile to have as the big bad of a film And given that he is directly connected to rocket I think it would like if it was rocket got hurt in like the holiday special or something And that was setting up the groundwork for the high evolutionary I'm not sure that I would have preferred that as a as a route of like splitting the story up Um, I think it's just a matter of in terms of using time effectively There's just shit that we could have gotten rid of that would have been able to give us more time for the other characters as well Yeah, like if we took out that the previous scene, uh with the with the make-up and chase essentially um That would have freed up way more time to have the things that I think it's lacking Which is interaction with the group with rocket with the group Oh, dude, I already think that we're in like it just going If we were pretending to be watching this and commenting on it live I'd be like we're in a dire position right now for wasting character opportunities Mm-hmm. So many big times we could have done so many conversations so many interactions so much development and we've been Sort of some of it is cut off real quick. Some of it's made fun of and some of it's just non-existent And it's not for a lack of time spent together It's just I'm thinking about what guardians one achieves in two hours Yeah, we're just not using that time We're just not using that time well And I think I my my stance on a lot of this plot stuff would certainly Be a lot better if we got really great character stuff throughout it But when it's kind of in that regard, uh, definitely, you know Definitely doesn't help How we continue Uh, yeah, let's continue So they hack into the the device whatever and it's displaying a video of I guess how rock it was created or at least the big significant surgery had done on him And swear to god, I don't know if you guys will feel completely different. Love these you might you might but uh in the cinema When it was panning around people and it was showing nebula and I think she's actually like crying I was like fuck. That's brilliant because of everything she's been through Yep, then she said It's worse than what Thanos did to me Why and I cringed out of my skeleton Me too. Why do you need to tell me that it's why do we need to compare this to somebody else's suffering? I honestly think that was uh insecurity on behalf of like does do the audience know why she's People know. Yeah, to yeah, I think that one's for the audience. This is uh, this is a we said this for the least observant people If you haven't watched and don't remember the other films tough I just oh, it's so sad because it's not even just that it's signaling. What's happening here. It's the I don't even buy it Um, we saw what Thanos did to you. I don't I don't buy that. It's actually worse So why because now the thought in my head is like, well actually was it worse? Like why am I thinking about that when it should just be Yeah, it should just be that she's the most angry and upset about what you've unwittingly made this like a contest Exactly. Well, it could have been fucking great because is she right? She just has so much fucking sympathy because she's been through the same thing But now it's like wow that looks more painful than what I had you like what the Also made me not like her as a character a little bit because it's just like well Look how rocket handles things and look how you're handling things. I'm not gonna go that far Um, I adored her tearing up and then I was like why the fuck did you speak? Don't you ever do that again? There's another this is another self-inflicted wound Just cut that line. Why would you why give me some credit? I think I think it's exactly what was said It's oh shit. Maybe some people don't remember like what happened with nebula to which it's like damn You should remember. She's one of the better characters in the mcu Like remember Uh, so I mean in terms of density We're kind of with the best characters right now. I think I mean, yes I was invested this film coming into it Uh No, uh, she says a file was removed today Biometrics match this man and it highlights one of the subordinates that we've seen from the high evolutionary And I didn't mention it. Probably should have he uh, he bumped into star lord directly. They're walking in A part where he bumps into him and then he goes. I saw that bad today. It was just like Wow, because when this thing happens and this is like, oh, hey, you're right, buddy It's like oh for fuck god damn it. I've seen enough movies. All right. I know what's He's important because people don't bump into each other in movies unless it's important It seems like he's always with a high evolutionary Um, not this time. He was but not this time. He's over. It's very very fortunate because it enables a lot to happen Because if you have to do that, let's look up the employee records Oh, it's this guy. Oh, he's got this job. I bet he's at this place Let's go Get him They uh, so they figure out he works for the high evolutionary and Uh, the description is he creates whole societies conducting experiments outside of galactic law Corners of the universe consider him god the zeronians the anime and the sovereign like, ah Yeah, we know them They didn't mention any of this in the second movie though No, they didn't because there was probably a much different plan. Yep at that point um I found that one There's nothing to dig in there, but just he does it outside of galactic law. It's like that sounds interesting But uh, there's a there's a yeah a wide galactic. Uh, yeah, essentially rules on, you know, ethnic ethics Um, so then uh, yeah, they say if we find him we can save rocket and then the background mantis says I have the high evolutionary coordinates How'd she get those I don't know. I have no fucking clue. It's so like hey Sometimes I think james gonna be like, oh come on. I'll be like don't come on me. Come on He's just wick a little harder. Come on Um, yeah, and then gamora's like it's a trap and then And then stala says the trap isn't a trap if you know the trap is trying to trap you it's a face off Uh, this is someone I was bringing up on open bar that I really don't like and that I guess it's just we're just Fucked because this is it now The guardians storylines In the first film Felt like they're mostly reacting to situations and that's why it's very rag tag and the the plans don't come together very well And a lot of it is very not necessarily luck-based, but this is happening. Okay. We do this that's falling apart. Fuck We do this But as it's gone on they've basically kept that as their formula even when they have time to plan And so we never just did the the orgo scope plan was fucking abysmal Yeah, that was terrible now. We're doing it again And he's like it's not a trap because I know it's a trap So like we need to address this like it's one thing if you say I know it's a trap, but Because we know that then we can hear our plan. We'll sort of know what to be expecting So here's what we'll do and da da da da and it fades to black or whatever Yeah, you can yeah, exactly. You can do that movie thing of like where he starts explaining the plan But we don't hear any of it so it can still be a she says it's a trap. He looks at his smiles and then we cut to a different scene Easy Like you bet it you you bet it is a trap Yes, it is and we're gonna do the trap springing. They think that we're gonna get trapped But the problem is like you would also need to write all of that totally differently It means you're expected which means that things are known which means other things should have been done Um, so then yeah, she says how can it be a face off if he's like a thousand times more powerful than you? Um, which is so true and it just doesn't get addressed and it fucking it's funny in the planning part. It's annoying Just wait until we get to the execution So here's uh Have we established at this point that the high evolutionary has powers Beyond that of a normal human being well, she just did Well, she says that he's powerful, but have we seen him like have we seen his power set? We know we've seen it, but they haven't or they haven't seen it, but she knows that he's powerful Yeah, so a thousand times more powerful than you Yeah, which could be hyperbole, but I the reason I ask is because it's probably not exactly one thousand The reason I ask is because I I want to talk about the fact that they gave him Certain superpowers because I actually especially with how they're handled later I almost wish they didn't give him superpowers at all and that he was essentially just I agree I don't think he's super powerful of any real good purpose that we couldn't write around Yeah, I agree Yeah, he's just a crazy super influential scientist, man He has a lot of power a lot of influence and he can use like technology and things like that Yeah, can have a lot of great unique weapons and stuff, but It is someone's kind of Broadens a reference it's not even something I thought about it's like his control over gravity is such that he has full control over adam warlock Like that's pretty powerful That's why he's got like syndrome syndrome powers, you know, yeah Keep that in mind. I really I prefer he was just a guy Oh, I that would have helped because in general I I do there's quite a lot that I like about the high evolutionary And one of the things I like about it is that compared to Some of the other villains in recent mcu stuff or compared to some of the stakes in recent mcu projects This is we're just trying to save our friend And he's a guy doing his own dastardly things on his own little planet in his own little corner He's not trying to take over the universe. He's not trying to destroy all the multiverses Or anything of that sort and so the like you had a chance to subvert The recent trends and just have him be a guy, but I felt like there was some sort of Thought they had that like no, he's got to have superpowers because this is a superhero movie Yeah, and that's lame Being in lame Gamora says just drop me off and then they say we don't have the time it's like You have time to open a portal Why did you establish those fucking things but also just It doesn't even really make sense to me. I guess the ravages left Like because but we know that's not around anymore Yeah, we know that at least one of them still around but yeah, whatever Um, this is an excuse to make it so that she has to come with them Um, which is kind of annoying. I really wish you could have written it so that she at this point Just make it so that you do what you do in third act But now make it so that on that first the second act action adventure thing that she actually Begins to care about them Instead of taking as long as they did to because by the end of this movie. She's almost back to normal. Gamora Almost but almost and I just we'll talk about that when we get there, but we'll get there So yeah, she says drop me off with my people now and he says your people they're not your people. I'm a damn ravager you aren't I like this line because it points out a flaw in the writing therefore. I don't know if it's a good line in the script as is We live complex lives we really do because I agree with him But I'm not sure that he would be saying this in the world that they're trying to convince me is real Which is that she's decided to join the ravages and has been with them for And this is another problem. I have no idea how long it's actually been since endgame I think uh, it's been like Endgame is 2023 And I think at this point we're up to like 2025 or 2026 So at this point if she's been with the ravages for that long it doesn't really feel right saying they're not your people But like I guess that's Well, I mean I mean that is a hell of a lot less time Than between like like guardians one and two that's in the span of the same year and look at how Much of a bond they have so yeah um, and he says My gamora didn't find family with a group of criminals. She found it with us people who care about you I know that's who you still are And lines like that. I'm just sitting here like what the fuck's going on It's like he knows but he wrote it this way anyway Hmm Gamora wouldn't find family with a group of criminals. That's true. She wouldn't have stayed with the guardians if they'd only done things for money Yeah I just don't get it. It's like the scripts away, but it You you just wonder what what do you want me to think? You know like do it do I agree with her or him? Oh, like what what is it that you kind of well and more It confuses you What's what am I meant to make of Decisions that are made at the end of the film with with references like this in mind um Good question. Oh and for the record. I know that he would feel he has a greater connection to the ravages than she does I'm not questioning that that makes sense. It's just the to deny her Connection to the ravages when she's been with them for as much as three years. It's like it's just silly at that point That was about as long as she had spent with you when she died. Yeah Uh So she says what well she throws him into a series of computer screens and says What are you so afraid of in yourself that I need to be something for you? I don't give a shit about yorgomora life made me me Which uh, this is uh, what once you say what you know on that first feels like the writer shouting at me for thinking that something else should have happened here and i'm like, I think I think that that is like this is theme dialogue That too like it's too for the audience too blunt Wait because this is gonna it's there's sort of drag us right to what I think is the core theme of the film But but doing it in a way that's not Very smooth. I don't think not only is that true. It's just that when she says life made me me It's the she the argument here would be that she's lived a different life to gamora before and that's why she's ended Up the way that she is and she's happy with that because she is her To which I would be like we didn't fucking see any of that shit and why did that shit happen? That doesn't make sense You know, I mean like it feels like an overcompensation, but simultaneously the statement kind of things that's going to relate to What you just said, yeah Not only the theme, but this is also part of what star-lord's going to be going through right this this will lead into what Drax is going to be saying to him soon from advice from mantis Yeah, so I think with this I think this all all the problems stem from the fact that gamora probably shouldn't be with the ravagers because If we imagine a scenario A hypothetical in which it is in character for her to end up with the ravagers. I feel like there's nothing wrong with this line But because it's not in keeping It doesn't work. I think I agree though It's still not exactly subtle with the the I suppose I Because I'm talking a lot you could talk about that if you want either Well, I I mean, it's a little it's a little blunt, but I don't I think if Her being with the ravagers is in character which it isn't but if it was then I don't think there's any problem with this line Because I could understand I could understand her being upset at him Not Getting the fucking point already, you know a better Place to put it and still end up this way is to put it with Not like I was supposed to say space angels, but basically the good guy space renegade people I don't know. I think they're gone now I got that but Yeah, but let's just pretend there's a roving like a guardians of the galaxy type of their mercenaries But they're much more known for being like very robin hoodie or something like that And the idea can be it's like oh well That that that was us and she's like you're the I know what you are Like I know the stories of the guardians of the galaxy you fuckers do things for money And you'd be like no no no no no you you don't understand Like the the the thing that she's missing is to actually see them in action at this point that she only Running on information that she's heard about them or sees them picking She could even say like you you pick the most lucrative battles Is that what a fucking coincidence or something like that? She could be angry with them Which can create more of the sort of angry dialogue, but I would still make her You know make her the altruistic one even in the orgo scope Like adventures where will is more willing to do something or whoever is and she's the one that's like What the hell is wrong with you like you guys are exactly the fucking people I expected you to be And so start like you're wrong and then she can still give this speech and it would It's coming from the other direction You know she considers herself much more altruistic than them because she doesn't know them anymore I like that better. Yeah Um, but I'm assuming he chose ravages because we're familiar with ravages Yeah, I guess that saves him having to introduce an entirely new faction Um Yeah, and she goes to punch quill and um, she says Uh You know, I think I think uh nebula grabs her arm and says i'm not risking the badger's life to make your life more convenient She mentions that she got upgrades from a rocket That and she says i'm family and then she says so is he Nice, I like it Good See and then we get this so now you're thinking like well What's uh, what the fuck is adam warlock and his mum gonna do they're kind of screwed over at this point, right? You know like well, yeah, I wonder where that's going Welcome to a scene where we have a room where Nathan fillion hard court adam warlock his mum and uh captured man and pet alien doggo are You might be thinking what the fuck why is this the beginning of a joke and it's like yes um Nathan fillion says we found him on the outskirts of the first shield pirating supply ships I just want to die. Okay. Um, uh, sure. That's where he was Um doing stuff so that you could pick him up The ravages fucking left and he stays to just try and I guess pirate supply ships and then they grabbed him Okay now I'm done by his greed This is very consequential You know what I was thinking in the cinema was lame And then something happens in the scene we're about to get to where I was like, oh It's consequential. It's cool And then I wanted to shoot myself in the face To explain that you have where is Patrick we saved the scene Yeah, all right So, uh, the mum is like where's gamora and he says you'll get nothing from me Which is kind of cool to say it Oh, yeah Loyal to his crew. He's he yeah He's not going to give him up to save his skin It may come across as generic dialogue and maybe it is but it's still indicative of integrity, which is kind of neat Yeah, even if he guys, uh, guys a bro Yeah, because he could just be like, oh shit. Don't hurt me and if you let me go I'll give you just said no, you'll get nothing and uh, yeah She says show me That uh show him that we mean business and so adam goes all right and lasers him And we hear like high-energy melting sounds and screams And then he stops the laser and he's basically just a skeleton at this point Yep, uh I don't know your name, but you were a real one Yeah, um, well, so first of all, what do you think of the joke? It made me laugh I did not like the I didn't like the joke because I was already very quickly invested in this guy's well-being Oh, I wasn't The fact that I mean for I like these kinds of characters. I think a lot of these secondary characters who um Kind of seem seen who are usually treated as super disposable Um and like they don't matter, but I like it when they have their moments I like it when You know things either work out for him or they are recognized for you know something that they do And so I like the idea that this guy is captured and everything, but he doesn't want to You know give up his friends Um, and and I was curious to see where this might go And then he just gets lasered like this kind of I mean for a joke And nobody cries for him, you know nobody yeah, it's this it's this element of like, oh, okay I guess he's dead. We'll probably never hear about this guy ever again. I don't even know his name um So never well, and it would never be brought up to adam warlock. Maybe to help. I remember that guy that you melted Maybe to help people understand something like this, uh rise. Would you be going the direction of rule or is it something else? um We have not yet begun to approach cruel. I know I know I know Um, because I was going to say it's like say for example the little pet dog. They were like Um, they kick it and shoot it and it's dead We would be like Fucking hell. Yeah, it's like why'd you do that? Like, you know, this is a movie Like what what are you doing? That sort of experience doesn't really happen for people with like random milk Um, even though that is just a guy and he's he's trying to prevent information from a comrade sort of slip out though it's like You know, he's and there he goes. He's incinerated for a joke. Um It's an interesting thought. I'm just trying to sort of dig into where it might make people feel something different Why? We talked about it multiverse of madness. Why was it so annoying when there's that guy crawling around on the ground in pain and then he gets Like vaporized. Yeah, I'm like right scorched from the face of the earth Like that's it for him. It's this it's as though he'd never even existed I never saw that movie who who vaporized him Wanda Wanda did and it would never get it would never get brought up again It would never be like having all those people that you killed like and that guy in particular who Is just erased from existence This is one of the flaws with uh lord of the rings Hall dear and all those elves who died at home steep They just disappear from the story and there's no acknowledgement that they ever existed Uh, and I think that is a problem within the uh within the lord of the rings movies Um, there needs to be wrecking when people die When people do things especially when it's heroic and they die like this I don't like it treat it as a joke They can die, but it should be like acknowledged by people who would acknowledge it that it's you know a tragedy that You know that you know, he you know, he could have done something, but he didn't and he helped us out And it's nice to get that kind of stuff I'm so mentioned, but he did steal stuff like so is star lords Those all kinds of characters. We've got all kinds of characters all kinds of Doobies This is the evil corporation that does horrible Or is it laced in some pot involved in horrible experiments on animals? So yeah, it'll take more than him just being like because he's trying to steal stuff Like that's not enough for me to just totally write him off. Is it I don't I don't think the movie thinks like I mean, it's a dark joke. The joke isn't like ha ha that guy died It's like ha ha this adam warlock guy's a fucking moron Which whether you like the joke or not, I don't feel like the joke is I think part of what makes the joke funny is how kind of dark it is, you know, it's it's It's it's in a way bolstered by how like, holy shit fucking that guy's fucking obliterated I mean, I don't think I don't I don't know if it I mean, it would be nice Obviously if if like the rabbit if there was any sort of acknowledgement on the ravager's part of this Well, here's something. What's the difference between is there a difference between this and tazer face getting laughed at Before he got yeeted Well, tazer face is like super morally bad from our pov, right? Yeah, no, but that's the point of making right like the tazer face joke for his death is like You know, remember me as tazer face and then the woman laughs out of him and then he's like, oh man And then he dies it's like, oh, well his death was kind of a joke, right? And it's like, yeah You know, I saw right so whatever Whereas this guy's just like more of Like if he's a ravager or whatever But like the fact that he still wasn't, you know wanting to rat out like his friends Um, but the joke in the tazer face one is ha ha tazer face died He's well because we didn't like maybe this would be a way to change it What happens if it was if it was uh Drax that got captured and then they were like show him you mean business and then he melted drax and it was played the exact same way That would be kind of a bold way of killing one of One of the cardio that's what I mean though, right? Yeah, but if it was drax it would just be like, holy shit Really, you know, that would be I think that'd be the reaction Yeah, no, I mean, yeah like See people people are laughing but it's like that's because it's absurd It is absurd, but I think that's a point. This is scaled down absurdity like fucking hell. Adam just killed him Um, it's not ha ha. He's dead. He deserved to die or anything Of course Because one of the things I was going to say is that the the kind of issue we're highlighting is going to be dwarfed And I mean fucking dwarfed by something else that'll happen in this movie. Oh, sure Yeah, um, so it's with this is like foreshadowing. I'm more interested in exploring this concept. Like I'm I'm not that attached to you know, this guy Yeah, no, I think it's interesting Yeah, it is the discussion regarding these kinds of characters and how much You know, they often get just written off as red shirts and everything but Like other people in the world and I expect people around them to kind of react in a certain way and You know, I it's it's nice to see heroism even in small ways kind of be recognized Um, it's very it's it's really nice to see that The problem is that he exists to serve another purpose which is plot So You have the mum the mum goes. Oh, I told you to show him. We mean business not disintegrate him And then adam says what more business could we have shown him? Um And then she says now we can't question him and he says question his friend And she says that's an animal and he says oh, he looks sad. I don't enjoy how that's making me feel Um, well, but it makes me laugh It's I uh, um, I think for me what's what's miscommunicating or not matching or crosswise something is um It's only like like he's stupid. He's fucking idiot, right? But like even his mum like somehow he's just unable to Like utilize it or remember that And I'm just like how many times am I gonna have to just deal with him being retarded and then I'm supposed to be like Yeah, well, he's retarded like okay Um Yeah, and I also think that it we would have been better served if he hadn't had explicitly said like I don't know how that makes me feel but if he just like kind of looked sad at the critter You know that kind of almost give that character a little bit more credit, right? Like yeah, like he doesn't his character in a way that's a little bit more earnest rather than strictly to You know make jokes Yeah, um this you know kind of is because in a way it would make his I guess his naivety his youth His his kind of his simpleness because he's like a child That would be why he feels this way in a sense that this is like Oh, it's a very basic kind of human ish level Emotions on seeing that the animal be sad after you vaporize And like him actually working on it in real time like really working on it in real time figuring out How these things make him feel in a way that's a little less overt I think that would be beneficial especially for this character when You know the longer the film goes on the more you'll you start to wonder like why are you here? That is a good question. Yes Someone this one just highlighted and I just wanted to mention of it So I don't know that has anyone here seen that mitchell and web look the sketch show I know of it. I have not seen it People in chat probably have there's a Evil genius is a sketch they did a couple of times and One of them it just starts with two henchmen and an evil genius man And he's like it would appear mr. Johnson has become a problem I should appreciate it if you would deal with him and then one of them like Begins to walk off and then the other one goes way way way way And he's like when you say deal with him. Do you mean kill him? And then he just goes he's become a nuisance And you know and then just keeps doing euphemisms and then the the sketch is him Highlighting many times he's used euthanisms was just misunderstood what that means and back and forth back and forth And then it even just does a couple of meta jokes and I fucking love it. It's real good Yeah, when you told Jim and to go take out the trash With adam like adam never came back and that was uh, we're still kind of pretty sour about the end stuff like that. Yeah but like We've just highlighted another time where they've done a thing that was either the same or better done in a parody and it's like Sometimes I wonder about that. I wonder how uh one can be affected By doing uh stuff like that like how serious can a movie be taken when you've um been delving so hard into Jokes that you would actually more likely see in something that's trying to make fun of the genre that you're a part of in a sense Is more so just a thing to think about. I don't know. It's an interesting connection. Yeah. I I think a parody Sort of understands that it needs to understand what it is what it is parodying parody parodying That's weird. Um, so there needs to be like that, you know, like, oh, I need to know the things so I can parody it better And this is just like and a lot of parodies they just stumble into being Or the things are parodying or they just sort of stumble into being what they are accidentally And that's what gets paradeed now, um The scene itself I mentioned that I wanted to kill myself at some point and that's because They announced we've got no leads now. We just killed that guy And at that point I was like, oh, thank fuck like this was just they did it for a joke It wasn't actually going to be plot relevant. Thank goodness and then Gamora back on good old guardian ship the bowie He's trying to contact the ravages because she wants to get picked up And so you hear her message through the comms device on this man's Scala body Because that tech despite being kept on your like front torso area That's where the primary part of the laser went. It is intact It looked like it was on his waist or unless I am remembering that wrong It was like, um Where your liver would be if I remember correctly. That's where she grabs her from Okay, the liver's um And I don't know if that's because it's slanted down or if it because it's gone over in any case when he fired the laser It was like a fucking death star into him Very focused around the ridges It's uh, it's really fucking annoying that that thing survived that and that it's picking up gamora's message and to make things even worse She says on the thing like I need you guys to pick me up and um, the fucking mum picks it up and goes Salutations can I help? And gamora doesn't think that's strange at all She just says let me send my coordinates. Can you pick me up? It's just like fucking There's no like authentication at all nothing for the ravages All right Well, that's how they're back in the plot because they wouldn't be otherwise Oh You don't sound like you don't sound like the guy you sound like the literal opposite of that guy Let's just like oh man good thing. He was out what scavenging ships by himself should So then and he kept his calm device on This to keep them in the story Because otherwise that would have just been a dead end for adam woolock and crew I mean unless they were actually any like had any sense in them at all and they could probably guess where they'd want to go next I feel like it's it's not actually all that unreasonable to piece together It's so weird because you could have had the high evolutionary be like They're probably on their way here stupid adam woolock and mum you come here now Who's on that something yeah, it's actually this is another thing that's actually quite It's quite easy to fix it seems in a way that isn't really stupid Could have just had it so the What's his name Nathan fillion when he was spinning around with his gun We show him press some buttons and he fires it at the bowie and we're like I don't know what that was and turns out later in that scene. He says I attached to tracking beak and he's the coordinates They your problem now Yeah, that's it. That's what you need to do I mean also the other one thing you mentioned is that like if if he's sent a bald guy with the cybernetic thing on his head If he sent him to go delete Certain information that they were there to get he could have like but they did download that file Even though it was missing things he could have like placed some sort of tracker in that I think you mentioned that earlier, didn't you? Yep I know a bomb a fucking gas thing like it could have been any anything they want or they could have just been there You know that was always an option. That's kind of what I was hoping for originally, but oh well so Drax meets up with star lord and he says quill and this is under uh the pushing from mantis Like the implication is that she's come up with this for drax to say This quill life is a pond and you've spent your entire life jumping from woman to woman as if they are lily pads upon this great pond Perhaps what you need to do is to learn to swim thoughts the If someone told me this right Then I would think that the implication is that I am using women to avoid living life Either to its fullest or that i'm running away from something or i'm trying to stay away from other things in life that are more important Uh that I need to experience or something along those lines I uh think this has the exact same issue as what we were talking about in that earlier scene And now i'm starting to wonder if james is misunderstanding his own fucking characters Um the problem for quill is not that he uses women to not like live life It's that he's trying to get over losing the love of his life Mm. Do you think that this is a uh A polka dot man situation I kind of do because now we're close to developing like an actual thesis statement on quill's problem Which is not at all his problem. He doesn't know he doesn't react this way whenever he's between women He's doing this because he loved gamora yeah So the idea that it's like you need to learn to live without women. It's like no you need to to learn to move on without gamora Exactly Not like come on This is what I mean like when I when I heard of sale I was like no, that's not the problem What? Uh it was kind of awkward to listen to because uh you could tell that quill drags mantis and the fucking film believe this is accurate Well, yeah, because I was about to say what would you say to somebody who said no That's just mantis's perspective and she's wrong obviously No I mean you told me this yeah, it's like I'm not like no I just if they Like it almost makes me think that we're trying to revert back to to star lord from guardians one Or yeah, we haven't been there for a while likes to be with we we just like to be with chicks It's like no no no. I just like fucking bitches You know like in That's what the context is sort of implying here and not Because I don't know which way Because they got gamora wrong Is he misremembering is he mixing up an old peter with a current peter? Writing wise because some people are like wait peter's like a womanizer and it's like so when we first meet him He's got a girl in his ship that he's forgotten about the implication being he likes he's like a bit of a player Which is totally fine fun, but it's an aspect that's Brought up by gamora when she first starts getting closer to him as being like that's your that's your reputation You just you flirt and you end up with those women. I'm not one of those black light joke. Yeah. Yeah, um, but then of course The implication is that like he actually falls for gamora and she falls for him And that they have like a a much more significant substantive relationship than what he'd been having before And then after all these years by everything that happened in infinity war Yeah, um, and then after all these years he loses her and so now he's hyper depressed He's like if he wouldn't be doing that if he was just going woman to woman No, he cares about gamora like yeah, please That's the source of his struggle is that he can't he can't accept what's happened and move on Yeah, I don't know. I just did not work man. Maybe maybe this is polka dot man. Who knows a little bit Um Yeah, he says I didn't know you I didn't think you knew how to make an analogy Um, he says a couple things one of them is um yesterday I made a poop shaped like a fish even my butt is capable of making an analogy The joke is the obvious joke is tracks You put the anal in analogy I don't think it's like, um, some of these are just me being like, right? Yeah, I didn't the first one was actually like was it was the first one green some about green He said like the more is like a leaf because it faces green or something Which is I think that's technically an allege It's just not like a good or helpful one But it is an analogy Um Before we cut away from the good old guardians, uh, we have an emergency situation for rocket and they kind of stabilize him But what uh, gamora says is fluid is in his lungs now. He's dying and he doesn't have long I want to keep that the old skulls for later um Then we get another flashback scene and um I think different people have different reactions to this but um, I found it quite compelling when The high evolutionary drags rocket out and he's basically losing his mind shouting at him and he says Uh, he's talking about how everything works how he's built everything and how they get to where they are And then he can't figure out how rocket managed to like without um Any kind of thing that he's reading from it's all from his own head how he managed to solve the problem And uh, rocket's not giving him as is he he wants then he says he like shouts i made you how did you know? Like this recognition that despite being rocket's god that rocket is doing things. He doesn't understand He's gone beyond him. Yeah He struggles with Like the idea that anybody could be you know in any way shape or form more confident than him Um So I thought that was fun. I think it's great It's also like you know now partially like it feeds into this sort of new Motivation that we start to see more in the present day story Uh, so yeah, he says, um You know, uh, we're going to the new world and he says we How could you be a part of a perfect species? You're simply a medley of mistakes we can learn from to apply to the creatures that truly matter Atch 89 was never meant for the new world p3. You could figure out all of this and how it works But you couldn't figure out that Um mainly just Yeah, it's him being a it's him being a dick uh to lower these through these you know What he sees is a lower life form that it's just yeah, this is just uh Not a life even worth any level of respect. It's not perfect. It's flawed. It's just one step on the road And he takes some level of pleasure and having dominance over things especially in response to uh, he's kind of Overcompensating for the fact that rocket actually solved a problem. He couldn't solve and so he's taking quite a bit of joy and To great like being degrading to him. Yeah, you're not really that smart, you know, yeah So we arrive at we arrive at counter earth someone in chat said krispy critters Yeah, yeah Um They arrive at counter earth and there's a there's a statue of liberty, but it's the high evolutionary and They end up landing in like the burbier america uh Like I would guess it's like 70s 80s 90s Relative, I don't really know exactly what you're opinion on but yeah, it looks like 70s early 70s mid 70s maybe Um, I say that as though like I say it descriptively but now I would like to repeat that with a question mark Yeah, yeah, exactly like what is going on Why why why? 70s america Because I think the idea is that then that was the last time he was at earth and so that's what he thinks That's what is it? Do we I think my mind goes to that being um The reason that like the their ability to think creatively Isn't quite there. So they just sort of um end up recreating things that have already Happened or aesthetics that have already happened Uh, I think they're they're unable to like innovate Is that what I think that maybe what the movie could be trying to do? I don't know how they know that that's what's there to emulate. Um, I wonder if that's a Program to them, but I think that's like one explanation for it I think the real one is it's an aesthetic that james gun likes And that's why it's like I mean we're trying to create the really like society. We like we really really like the temities Yeah, but I mean doesn't it doesn't it make sense if if this is when the high evolutionary was That has been to earth as he mentions how old we meant to believe that he is He looks like he's in his 40s Is he human? Yeah, that's that would be my follow-up question to see No, I think he makes it he makes it really he's definitely not from earth So he has said that he has a particular fondness for earth culture. Yeah. No, I I get that I guess we create something that he finds particularly pleasant in his perfect new world Everything is orderedly. It could be that he's fully aware of all of his history and culture, but that he likes this era I think that's a reasonable Yeah Oh strange Uh, yeah, it is very strange, but man boy. It is uh, why did I say man boy? Um, but At least 300 years, right? That's what people say in the chat that he's at least been doing the experiments for 300 years Yeah, okay, so He just likes it. Um He's a big old probably easy to give me a sense of those things too That doesn't mean that he like Because he's been doing these sort of like utopian experiments, but that doesn't mean he like couldn't have gone to earth in the 70s Oh, well, I mean, we know that he has been to earth. So like, yeah, that's viable But that was when he did it I'm just suggesting that he doesn't even need to he could have gone all kinds of times and he just has a Fucking favorability with this era and so thus I don't even I'm trying to figure how this works. So you make the creatures Is he dressing them up and putting them in or did they Or is that what they're doing? I think that they're sentient. So I think the idea is that he's like engineered all of this all the architecture all the Attire all that sort of stuff That's the vibe I get he's very much like Top-down controlling one of the things I was really hoping isn't the case and I'm assuming we're all on board with it Not being a case is the he threw them all onto the planet and they just developed into this No, definitely not because that would be pretty cringe That would be cringe. I I don't think there's any reason to believe that Well, the only reason that I could come up with was what I mentioned before about the inability to innovate And that he programmed with them with a certain thing, but they're not able to sort of break from What he put into them or come up really with anything new but that's That's all I got. All right So It's time to consider what's happening here We find this out soon, but we can talk about it because we know about it the ship for the high evolutionary is his enormous ship thing It's very close to where they land In fact, they fucking fly right past it theoretically because it would be impossible for them not to have seen it And they want to know where to find the high evolutionary is like personal scientist person And they eventually just get directed to go there like we'll get into all the specifics in a second But just it just seems kind of like adding busy work instead of just having them go to the ship But again, so much stuff happens here that you need to unravel The high evolutionary wants all of them dead except rocket They land and they know they've landed. There's no way that like the high evolutionary misses that shit. No um And nothing is done. Maybe they have security like uh or a corp Or so, I mean, you know Um, nothing's done to to kill them to steal from them disable them. Just nothing at all Their plan is wait until they arrive and ask to see us and deliver rocket to us But Then when they arrive Send war pig to go and pick him up in their ship Uh, I feel like we have the resources to do a little bit better than that, sir This is pathetic. I don't understand what the fuck is happening and my big criticisms of high evolutionary throughout this film Is all in the form of him executing his weird ass plans It sucks because I really love the performance and I quite like the motivation But those things Um, I was about to say those things are easy. What I mean is the acting is separate from the script So it's like not his acting doesn't make me compliment the script um And a motivation it's not hard to come up with a motivation It's hard to execute how it would manifest especially writing someone who's passionate and That's not, you know men's wiz. He's not stupid It's supposed to be a smart character. Yeah, he's supposed to be very smart So like this is just baffling to me. I don't know what the fuck is happening right now But that's like the summary and now we can go through it in pieces because it's just there's so much Um, if you just literally he just went to the ship himself he would win Yeah, probably it'd be uh, they'd be They made him too low-key. So yeah, he probably could And there is also an element of He the the way that adam and him might You know like what might happen as an As a as a like a byproduct of that fight, you know, we could still get certain payoffs set up But uh, we'll get to that later so, uh, they land and They're surrounded by the creatures of counter earth that are all Like humanoid versions of I mean they look like a human but with Really strong makeup that resembles any animal of uh, you're choosing around the earth And uh, no, so this is a question I had if star lord does have translator microbes or whatever injected um Shouldn't either he be able to understand them or they be able to understand him I think what you're meant to assume is that since this is a weird planet that the high evolutionary is built in his own backyard kind of thing that this language isn't part of the Intergalactic language Which makes sense, you know, and then I was just like is it not then fucking lucky as hell that uh, they do decide to help Because I mean if they didn't help, yeah, then then what? I guess we'd have to get aggressive because Because I don't know if they need a lot of Help from them because I feel like where you would go is the big giant red. Yeah That's where you could have just had it that that was on the file You know it's like it belongs to him and he works in this store That's on all of his chain code or whatever the fuck is attached to it You didn't have to do all the shit with that and and man takes doesn't it's not the quickest scene No, it takes a while But I mean that was clearly one that they wanted to have just the interaction with the people on that planet And I'm guessing that the logic is well now you you'll feel more for them when you know an event happens later They worked. Yeah, they put in a decent amount of work to humanize these people which you know makes sense because they're You know people they live in houses and they have jobs and cars and family photographs and They offer beverages to guests and you know, they're sad to see their car be Lended out literally one of the best jokes in the movie but I uh someone's mentioned it and uh I'll jump ahead a little bit with two extra references that confuse me one Mantis does say their language isn't in the translator. So it's like, okay, cool But the reason why You're gonna bring that in at the same time if something else drax talks to them in their language Yeah, see that yeah, I mean this Is it the same language? I think it's a problem either way, but is it the same language that the The children that we'll see later are speaking as the ones on the planet. Is that the same one? I don't know. I guess I don't know. Yeah, do the do all the animal people and the The blue-haired people on the ship. Do they speak the same language? Well, I guess it wouldn't change anything right because It's still a problem that drags their language, but it's not in the translator I don't I just don't guess the hell out of me. I don't know how this stuff happens Um So sofa joke, what do you guys think? I like it The sofa that one that one really outstead is welcome for me Yeah, I liked it the first time he said like if they condensed that joke into like a fourth of how long it was I would get it drax's utility-based lack of social etiquette Um, if they if they took that and they squeezed it down, I would like it a lot But I feel like it it went on for too long Like drax really wants to lounge this badly on the couch. Yeah, that's the part that okay When it's like I see you when he's trying to lie down again, I didn't care for that But you just keep making the joke. That was it for me. It's just like and you going back to it again, huh? All right, keep digging in that. It's gold mine. I guess Welcome One of the things I liked about the the the core idea of the joke too long as it may be Is that this isn't one of the jokes that stems from drax just being stupid? You know, he's just like, you know the part where he's like, why would it be oblong if you're not meant to lay on it? You know what I mean? Like he's being very like obviously I can see that this thing could serve that function I don't understand why I I'm not allowed to lay on it Like that works Unlike some of drax's jokes where it's just like, oh, you're just kind of stupid now Yeah, I think if it will one joke well crafted or well refined, I should say then it'd be cool But I think is there like full payoffs for this joke Yeah, it's got condensed one payoff one back and forth And maybe if you want to stretch it a glance from peter over to drax as he starts to lean down and he straightens back up And that's it. We're done. The joke is there. It's finished. We can move on with We can move on with things There's a couple because I like the idea of the joke. It just goes on for too long There's a I think I don't know if there's four payoffs. I think two or three of them worked for me Um, I like I like I like the way he delivers the line like I have a hard time believing It doesn't serve more than one purpose or something along those lines. I thought that was pretty fine So to try and translate to them what star lord needs He first shows them a hologram of rocket. It's very clearly illustrating that someone's in trouble And then to try and tell them who he wants to see he draws one of the most fucking gnarly stick men ever Um, I get that it's like this is exact same problem again. So one You I know you you had a screen with the guy's face on it. You can't project that here You had are you had nebula project rocket? That's what I'm saying The the projected rockets. So why can't they project that face and then secondly They do this joke with stahl's done the The stick man and then they have mantis and drax both go like oh, wow, that's amazing I can have that on my fridge and stahl was like, oh, yeah, thank you I'm just like you trying to convince me stahl doesn't realize his stick man drawing his shit That's like I feel like that's a joke that one of them could say like one of them thinks It's really good or something or they're Like I think if you need to have a joke about the way that this the the shit he's drawing looks um Well, it's not even i'm fine with the Sarkastically saying like that looks just like him and in star lord doesn't know that she's being sarcastic and he's proud of his drawing And maybe drax just snarks or something but something really quick, but I don't know I just I don't buy that star lord is a man who doesn't realize that that's a fucking shitty stick drawing. I just don't get it It's like The other thing I found confusing about it is that when drax is can I put it on my fridge? It's like drax doesn't do sarcasm. So is he being serious to see actually legitimately love it I assume. Yeah, that's what I took from it. It was good. Yeah, they both think it's really good It's an odd joke. I don't quite there is a joke in there. It just needs to be Discovered and mapped out and then mined for its resources I just don't feel like in its current form it really You know, like it was I like it was like one of those Kinds of jokes and I feel like we could do better than in this Boltsy gajillion dollar, you know marvel production Uh, so Yeah, I would want to let me get the call joke I'm better The card joke is is The the card joke the dad's expression is literally like one of the best jokes in the whole movie The fact it it actually it has that perfect level of subtle enough and relatability That I really really like I enjoy jokes that aren't That they don't feel the need to be super blatant Um I really like the idea that the dad has an attachment to the car And he has like car payments and we're just giving it to these aliens to fuck around with because the wife says so And he feels like he's just well, it's what the missus wants and He just I happy wife happy life I really really like it makes you quite endearing doesn't it rags. It really does I really the super relatability and earnestness of that batman's expression Was really really awesome Um boy, I sure hope things work out. Okay For everyone involved in this scene and on the street Uh We then cut over to oh, well, I guess yeah for plot wise he drew that stick man And they pointed to the big building and now they're going there which again like Could have just gone straight there, but yeah, we had all of that to do that It's just like all right. All right, james. You do you buddy Um, we cut over Go ahead I was just gonna say I there's a there's a way that this could have been written where there's some value in going to the random civilians first Maybe some sort of piece of information that they couldn't just get otherwise You know that would assist them because otherwise it's just like well, obviously he's in that building Of course he is and they just end up going there anyway It's uh, and then it's another dumb excuse to split up the group Yep that I hate it because it causes a number of problems Oh, yeah, I should probably say uh, so quill and nebula are driving off to go to the big building Oh, wait, no, right. We've already we've got another great Oh, that's actually what I meant by the car joke, by the way Oh More to the car joke than what rags has already pointed out. Yeah, I know I know they're about to get in the car and then uh You know, it's like the music is ramping up and nebula tries to open the door and she can't do it It's because she doesn't know how the she doesn't know how it works Like it's so analog I like the idea that it's so analog That uh, the idea it's like I love the detail of him saying push the button and she pushes the circular keyhole Like expecting it to be a button and then clarifies not of the pushing the button underneath the handle Because by the way, I I think one of the things that makes this joke work a lot Is because for a lot of people who watch this they have never Had a car where there was like a button that you had to press So that it would open it so that you could then pull the car open like that's not a thing that they make anymore Um, I mean, I don't wonder how many people will remember Do you guys remember when they used to make cars that would have like the buttons? On the outside to put a code in to open the door. They had like five or six buttons on Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you like or something Yeah, things like that. So it's like one of those I think that would be relatable for a lot of audience members who are really young who just Legitimately never encountered a car like that or or knew about it What I like about the joke is that the the way that the line is delivered Like by both of them Is like so or like the part where because Wendy says like it looks like you're pushing the keyhole And then she says what and then he's just like there's a button under the handle And then it's like okay now what it's just like she does it and expects something to happen And then there's that pause and oh my god, I laugh so hard when he said now open the fucking door It's great. Oh, shit. That's right. This is pg-13. We get an f bomb I got one and marvel don't typically do none Yeah, so marvel might have characters swear that might never be the first time I might actually be the first time It is. Yeah, I love that joke I really really like it. It's like a Oh, and then of course the part where she opens the door and gets it and says that is a stupid design And your instructions were very unclear Just like It's how it goes everyone's been in those scenarios Where both of them feel pretty justified because He's just like she doesn't understand exactly how it works She's doing what she can with the information given and he understands it perfectly because he These cars are actually familiar with him in terms of he's been in them He's just not driven them because they're reflective of Where he was plucked from which is the 80s, right? They'd be around. Yeah, but you know, it's like they're around now so Wish they used the f bomb elsewhere. No, I love it there because it's so Unexpected It's so relatable That's what I have an I have an aunt right well I have more than one but one in particular The only time I've ever heard her say the f bomb Was literally when she was wanting someone else in the family To just pick a spot in the parking lot and park and she said I'll use a fake name. It's like like Chelsea. Just park the fucking car And I've never ever heard her use like foul language ever in my life So to get the blade runner style single f bomb from her was a magical moment that I'll never forget Um, and so it made this joke super relatable that just this frustration of open the fucking door I do like that this is such an inconsequential moment that it happens into I think yes I like it. I think that makes it better than like having it be super dramatic. I think it makes it Oh my god special it it kind of helps to assuage its usage In that you if you want to get upset that the f bombs in it too bad you're laughing They're you're being surrounded by laughter because our our I think that was the biggest laugh that the theater I was in got in the uh In the show I think it was um, maybe the hardest I laughed it was just so perfectly timed and positioned I've seen people say Uh, they have an f bomb in this well, I'm not sure my kids it and I'm just said they're like your kids have heard that word Trust your kids have if you don't talk to your kids about the f bomb who will It's like drugs What somebody somebody says the word once so now it's like well not watching that I go because I I feel like I'm from a very different culture because I can't associate at all Like the idea that it's like there's one f bomb there for it's like it'll it'll destroy my children's ears I'm like, okay. The first time I said it in front of my parents. I had no idea. It was a swear word I just I had just heard some other kids using it And so then I used it and then I had to hold soap in my mouth for a while Um, so I learned not to say that around very bad Uh, yeah, but it uh, they it was there. Yeah soap is not pleasant It it's not actually really the taste It's the avoidance of the taste because you have to hold your mouth in such a way that it's just on your teeth And your lips and you don't want it to get on your tongue because it's soap don't taste no good Uh, so yeah, that's how I learned Um And someone's just highlighted like if there was a reason to keep your kids from seeing this movie, it wouldn't be the f bomb No Yes, it wouldn't be the f bomb. It would be the horrific scary imagery that will give them nightmares It will be the nightmare creatures. I was gonna say it would be the plot, but you know that works as well However, it does actually like, you know, I say kid that can range Quite significantly. So, I mean if we talk about like a five-year-old then But I mean if we're talking like I don't know like 10 or 11 Like they've heard it by that point presumably Oh, it's just because I mean we're from a generation where we got a fucking tidal wave of it when we went online for gaming We're like, what is this? I finally oh those modern warfare and modern warfare two lobbies. Hello two and three Um Like just the internet in general was truly it was it it was it was uh, it was uh, it was a time to be alive I will say though, um, one of the reasons that I also like this little scene Is that we do get a setup? Uh, and that is when peter gives Groot his guns That's true It is a setup. You are corrected as a setup. Oh that is the split We have gamora peter and Groot in the car heading to the high evolutionary ship and he says Oh, sorry. Yeah nebula. Uh, gamora is in the ship chilling out. She doesn't want any part of this and They tell drax to stay to Does he give a reason? I can't remember. I know what mantis says but This does peter say it actual reason would you just say stay? Well, in any case he stays and mantis is the one to look after he says like mantis. Look out. Uh, look out for drax This is all very very very arbitrary Um, but the one argument I think that really matters and mantis brings it up is well Who's protecting rocket? Like yeah, because nebula. Sorry gamora. I don't want fucking switching in my head Gamora isn't exactly team guardians right now. So her being in the ship isn't exactly like reliable as protection for rocket Um So they start driving And um, they spot an octopus man dealing drugs with cockroach people And uh, I think they find it looks like really deformed and kind of visually fucked up because all the animals that we've seen Yeah, the animals that we've seen just far are like animals that are just hominids essentially They're like, I mean, they're like furries, you know, uh, someone's got to say it Uh, they're just like animal people And they look like normal that drax needs to guard rocket. That's really important. I'm kind of hoping he didn't say that Because it's gonna make it so much worse But uh, I can't remember I'd have to check if that is what uh star. I know that mantis says it anyway, but um Yeah, I'm pretty sure the primary reason for them to stay Is to protect rocket Just putting it out there general protection Finds a concept going on And um, let me see. Oh, was there anything else that Um, I I had to uh to get up and use the loo. Uh, do we talk about how drax hits the kid in the face with a ball? Right. Yeah, we kind of skipped that. Um, I don't know what's what do you think? I don't know That just seems like you wouldn't like drax you wouldn't do that with you to a kid, right? Like as a like as a father figure that you want to see yourself as or something That seems strange that you do that like, you know, you completely agree The one bit of slack I would give is maybe he would accidentally, you know, throw it too fast But the second It injures the kid you'd be like, oh shit. No. No. No. No. I'm so sorry Like he recognizes what it means to hurt a child. He's not that fucking retarded It's just it's just more of these like little pinpricks. It's not even a pinprick really. That's kind of damage Um, that really annoy me because it's like, isn't it funny? They fucking hit that kid, you know, I I mean for the shock value kind of but that's different. That's not what we're like It's that's like a jackass joke, uh or something. Um Or a freddy got fingered kind of thing. It just doesn't seem like he'd do that and it's not recognized If I was to give it that he accidentally throws it too hard or whatever But like I need the follow-up of him being like, oh, oh, sure. I'm so sorry Like I'll like, you know and trying to solve the problem instead. I think he just sort of like stands there like Oh Because we've all had like moments growing up where like a kid bumps into a table or gets hurt And an adult will go like oh But as they'll do it as they're rushing to the kid to like hold them and everything But there is that like base level of like it's funny the kid bumped into a table or whatever Um, but they're always they're there to make sure that you know, the kid's okay Those things in tandem make it You know like believable Um, yeah, then we meet at the front of the at the front of the ship That's where uh star lord Groot and nebular is is war pig and other guy who are a type of I guess, um Security are called later. I think right. Uh, they are horrifying These are these are creatures from like doom They are these horrific cybernetic genetic experiments That look like they're from a video game to be destroyed. They're like like from like from quake Uh, what's the word that the uh, the bat woman or the bat mom kept saying when she was pointing towards the ship It sounded like mojo It couldn't make out what she was saying, but when she was trying to direct them And uh, it sounded like mojo and like there's a character in the marvel cinema The marvel comic book universe that looks a lot like these guys and his name is mojo Um, he's a really fucked up looking creature. Um But the the first thought that came to mind was doom and then I remembered there was this like wacky guy in the comic books He was originally an x-men villain and his name was mojo. So I didn't know if that was like james gun trying to sneak something in maybe Anyway, they super scary And they are like legitimately very scary We have well, I look at them and think about like the suffering the most would involve to create those things, you know Which is good. Yeah, I hope that Yeah, yeah, it's it's not like, um, I don't believe that they could be made I assume he tried to get use out of all of the the creatures and stuff for his purposes, but it's like Dang, it felt it feels a little bit like a tonal shift Like oh, they're just out here and they talk kind of normal, which in a way makes them more terrifying Some of the designs though Seem a little strange and I think there's always going to be distant experimental reasons you might be able to come up with in terms of really creating hypotheticals, but like for example, they seem very exposed And that same sort of approach seems reflected in the um, the critter friends the Rocket has like some of the like Take for example, like lila's arms. They seem Very uh, I I'm trying to figure out what weird I'm gunning for but um, they're always very unsettling Almost yeah, because of how well it's because they look you can clearly tell the originals have been cut away And that they've been replaced with something that is very very Unesthetically pleasing and mechanical They're very they're very thin the fingers are like flat pieces of metal They function And in a way they are more functional because of their length And it allows her to like stand up as she you know walks upright It makes sense that she has longer limbs there, but it's just this this cruel utility to it um and uh Yeah, it for instance you could do that to a creature and it wouldn't seem cruel if you made it like oh it looks organic It's very well proportioned It is you know, it has like five fingers four fingers and there may be webbed a little bit because if the creature wants to swim It can do that Um, like there there's like the kind version of that This is like the this is like the quake version of it Where we're just just sticking arms on things lap dash Kind of uh, it has just enough thought into it to seem cruel Maybe even like leftover tech that they're You know if they can just mix it with one of their lower level animals to see if they can make something test something Um, because even you know floor for example, that's super creepy It's funny he supervises everybody of toy story one. It's like yeah. Yes. Yep. Absolutely. It does There's also a fun little thing that I like the more pigs voiced by judy greer It's kind of a funny disconnect between the appearance and the voice I think that's one of the reasons that makes it so like creepier is that it sounds Like a like kind of like a person very chipper doesn't seem to yeah, like it doesn't understand It's not fitting. It's this incongruity with what I would expect it to sound like and how just normal It sounds um, which just in a weird way makes it Very very scary so Uh star lord As rags said as a setup passed his guns over to good old grout and so they scan him and they're like good You don't have weapons. You can come in nebula. You can't come in because you are a weapon Groot can come in So stupid and it's bad enough that group can come in when he's a living weapon, but they don't even scan him I guess they're like well, he wouldn't be hiding anything. It's like why Why would you think that? Not clever that I know that it's supposed to come across. It's like, oh, that's a really cool thing. No, it's not Sorry Drawing a lot of attention to some like you're drawing attention to the problem in a way that like if you just said like Oh, he's he's expecting you come with us You know what I mean that would be way better honestly skip the scan You might wonder later. Why didn't they scan them or something? But it would It'd be better I told you to take the wizard staff That's a different movie. It's just a simple walking stick. I like that meme where Where they walk up to they walk up to the castle Uh, and he's like you wouldn't deprive a wizard of his whole walking stick Would you and everyone's like Gandalf we can all clearly see it's an ak-47 Yeah, it's just we kind of been over but just the high evolutionaries plan here is insane, but we'll just go along with it. I suppose Now we're about to get to the the flashback It's it's that one Rocket sent back to his cage and he basically tells them all we're all gonna get killed in the morning I'm gonna get us out He starts assembling something from all the little bits and bobsies been saving over the presumably years I'm not sure how long it's been Um, and he says just down that hole there's ships. I know I can pilot one of them if I can just get to it Uh So they're all relatively on board. He fixes it up opens the door opens up lila's door They seem pretty happy about all of this Then we hear a gunshot sound Bang It's very clear lila's been shot Pulls over and her last word is sky Um, it's pretty sad damn very sad. Yeah. Yeah, it's uh, what the fuck movie heartbreaking oof Um, some of the It's like it's you gotta be so careful with scenes like these to make sure you like You know nail anything that could uh Reach anything, but it's just like this perfect amount of horrifying and tragic when you have um Law the uh, the bunny with the sort of vital legs Like I said earlier her english isn't quite perfect. Um after lila's shot She just keeps repeating over and over again rocket tiefs flaw go now rocket tiefs flaw go now and it's just like Oh sad as hell Yeah, man Uh, she because obviously she's just panicking. Uh, she doesn't want the rest of them to die That's the cool The thing I think that combines the tragedy, of course, isn't just the people that are I say people you understand what I'm saying They're clearly good and uh, they're also Kind of come across as very very much like children Um, but they're not treated that way of course because uh, I evolutionary doesn't give a shit Yeah, it's like their situation is one of pure, uh pure tragedy and Rocket has a bit of a A moment. I don't know how I can possibly explain how it's just uh, it's pretty fucking hard to watch in a way Yeah, yeah, just a a completely, um It just a scream of emotional agony Oh, yeah Probably worth mentioning that is is this Bradley Cooper's voice by this point. I was actually I was gonna ask the same question I'm assuming it is Yeah, uh, I I think it's very much worth mentioning That his voice acting is fucking incredible in this movie. Yep. I mean, he's always been fucking brilliant as well Yeah, I think I think it's it's interesting because Bradley Cooper rarely does press for these movies I think whether he just fuck it. I don't feel like doing it or whether he's committed to like Disappearing into the role. I think there's something to be said for just how incredible he is I never thought about it that way, but that's interesting It's a I don't know. I don't know what it is exactly, but I could believe that that's a deliberate choice for that reason Uh, so the high evolutionary starts making fun of him, which is fucking cruel Yeah And rocket gets incredibly angry as you would and jumps up onto him and starts scratching at his face pretty hard and pretty fast, um I'm trying not to be mean to a scene that's very very good, but He's a raccoon A human being that's something that approximates close to human being if it's if it's an animal scratching your face You are getting that thing off Yeah, I wonder if uh, there is this element of him being so like surprised or like the like Shocked that any one of his creations would do this at all to him or If it's a result of the like whatever the rest of the physical cybernetics are it's just I don't know But yeah, I thought that he's clearly not just a raccoon right in terms of strength and physical prowess I don't think we've ever been shown him to like be so weighty or strengthy that people can't just pick him up Uh weighty no, I'm I'm wondering what's going on with his his like the arms because they're not like normal raccoon Oh wait wait, maybe you're not understanding me the high evolutionary doesn't do anything with his arms Does he they just lay down like while he's getting scratched. Oh, yeah, that needs yeah, that's a that's a problem Yeah, I don't remember what his arms were doing, but yeah, he should have been like punching at him or something and you know Yeah, we're trying to yeah, like put it over his face or something. Yeah Because that's what you know, you do typically But before that he'd call he said he expected that a rocket might have done this and so he's called in backup And so as rockets Sort of disabled him. He hasn't killed him His gun has dropped and so those men arrive rocket picks up the gun and starts shooting at them He does hit all of them eventually, but they've fired some shots and those shots have happened to go into teeth and floor Yes, um Yeah Perhaps a little tiny bit contrived, but I still really like it Um, yeah, I think and by the way, this is only just because I wanted this movie to be just everything that I wanted so bear that in mind But like with a scene like that it's like it's hitting great um, I'm trying to think of how I would maybe change and tweak it to being That uh, he he's on top of all of this the high evolutionary like he's been He's hoping he's gonna escape to maybe complete a test of some kind Maybe even to the point of getting all four of them to a ship But then the ship itself is like, you know deliberately sabotaged and uh, he reveals all this to rocket and then Like just activates the kill switches on all of them Except rocket And he's like you're gonna be you know, blah blah blah and then probably from that try and construct some kind of escape scene so that he was all in control of all of it because this is very um, it seems very almost uh out of The high evolutionaries control like is he lying when he said he expected it because he came down alone with a like a pistol Doesn't seem like he's prepared for this even calling in his own man, you know Maybe he like he expected for uh rocket to try some shenanigans But maybe not exactly either succeed and get out of the cage or Yeah, uh or to leap on him and attack him because uh I know it again not trying to show on the scene But like I didn't buy it when rocket ran and to a ship and activated and flew off There's so many reasons why that just shouldn't even be remotely possible Why yeah, um first of all he has to get lucky as fuck to avoid all security and gunfire The I can believe and buy that he's dodging several but all of them It's like all right. Okay. So mine that it's still clear that he wants him alive, right? Are we going with the No, I have all those shots that are landing everywhere around him. He barely is able to escape Yeah, I I'd say that's plot armor not like they're deliberately avoid I don't think they're trying to shoot in a way that convinces rocket that they're trying to shoot him Yeah, so if yeah, I think the problem for me would be that they're shooting at him At all because he still wants him alive. I don't think we'd know that I don't know if they he would have been able to communicate that to anybody in his state Or if that was even known by random security in the hangar. No, that's that's fair Right because he's still kind of incapacitated on the ground Gotcha Yeah, no, it is incredibly lucky. I don't I don't know. Is it impossible to your mind? I mean, it's not like it doesn't break. It doesn't break any laws of logic Oh, well, so we're going one by one. So first you're just incredibly lucky that none of those shots hit him Then there's Access to the ship. He just runs in. It was like imagine there was a locking key or some kind of scanner or anything Well, he just jumps right in and it's ready to go fueled up and not in any way having to have some kind of security check or disablements Like, all right, that guess he's just super lucky on that too Then there's no thing nothing to shoot him down apparently It's like, okay, and there's no way to remote control and bring back that ship and then there's no way to track it I doubt it Especially the tracking I think yeah I just think all of those things are happening all at once and it's because we're rushing We're trying to get that scene complete rocket gets out and he escapes and that's that's before he reaches the Guardian some day before he reaches good. I'm just like I get it. I get it. I get it But he really skipped over a hell of a lot of things there that You know Would have made it a little easier to swallow how he gets away. Yeah. Hell. I would have considered He shoots those guys They're dead and then we see him Slowly walk off maybe to the left. That's the end of the flashback. We don't actually see how he escaped, but we know he did That could work. Yeah, or yeah, some of the really really stupid parts of the movie We could have that extra scene you talked about like and another flashback. Yeah For like the more um, like if he's loose on the ship being stealthy You know over a longer period of time that could but Yeah, but I think actually you're right if him just walking off and we don't see how it happens Is probably better because this is the pinnacle of the drama as far as the flashbacks are concerned I feel like this is the right one to handle if I was to fight against my own argument part of what they want when they exit Him is him looking at the sky in a ship as he leaves. Yeah Do they want that? Uh, my god, it's very effective, but it is a little If he ran there is if he ran to the ship and there wasn't gunfire You know if there weren't people shooting at him if he was sneaking around there were alarms going off And he was he was slinking around. Maybe he's a stowaway on some other ship. That's how he gets the world Him walking off to the side. I can believe that I can believe he stowed away Yeah, I can believe that too. Um, if you're gonna show something we can show something better than what we were shown I agree That's actually probably the solution. Well, um, I'd say it's it's definitely a better solution that they've got Maybe transports coming in and out all the time and he just jumps on one and then he's just staring out the window You know, you can have you pay off at the same time then. Yes. All right Um, I was just gonna mention movie cynic. Did you want to maybe take this opportunity to uh, Jump on out at your preference? Yeah, um, I really appreciate you guys have me on uh, you bet Yeah, sorry. I couldn't contribute as much. Um, you guys are just the best so I'll be listening though. Oh Alrighty. Yeah Why don't you tell people where they can find you and what you're up to? I just released a peter pan and wendy review um, along with two Almost long man level reviews, uh encapsulating phase four in its entirety And I will be doing a review of guardians coming up soon We'll uh, we'll have today's conversations affected in any way I'm going to try not to have these conversations affected Um, yeah Honestly, I pretty much have summarized, you know, what I think too, which is uh, partially why Uh, it minimizes my contributions because I'm like, man, you guys are just saying what I was thinking Oh, well, hey, we talk a lot. We've already had all of the opinions that are even possible So thank you so much for having me on you guys. I really appreciate it. Of course Thanks for joining us. Um, and yeah, easy to find you the movie cynic on youtube and uh, It's covered plenty of topics you guys in chat would be interested in don't you Yeah, thank you so much. We'll see you next time. Yeah, that's it. Oh boy. Oh And with that we go to another moment of this film pissing me off. Can you believe it? Especially after that scene Yeah, yeah You know, which one specifically the thing how it's it's arguably a small thing, but it's also kind of a big thing. Um Drax has decided he's leaving It's almost like I want to talk about that already, but it's like, why don't we just talk about the thing first? So there's some guy on a motorbike just driving just doing his daily just going down the road just doing his thing Fucking he might be going at like 30 miles per hour Drax puts out his arm and just fucking wrecks him off the bike This took me by surprise so hard to the cinema. I was like, yeah I was almost like is this supposed to be some hooligan? Some like Is this just this just a guy Using the road for its intended purpose. Why did he do that? That's not Drax No, why would you shoot just to fuck up some random guy and these people have been nothing but nice to you So weird because it's like isn't it funny and it's like what the fuck is wrong with you? I mean, no you're being an asshole. It's not funny. Not really It's the funny factor will obviously be ruined for me and the fact that that guy was just some guy doing his daily thing What's wrong with you? um If it were like we just said some evil character trying to get away or something. It's like that's totally normal those kinds of funny Uh physical gags, but yeah, that's just some guy Had him steal it or something. I don't know if it was just there at the curb You know, it's still you're stealing someone's Motorcycle, but still you wouldn't have to like probably kill that guy This one's just highlighted as well. The guy doesn't get back up. He's just laying. No. Yeah, he's just laying there I think he's just had his ass beat and he's just like I don't think he's dead, but like look at opal Well, it doesn't matter. Does it rex? uh And crony while you're driving it, you know a reasonable speed Like he could be seriously injured. Yeah, I would expect so. He's just seriously injured and people should be running to help him um So drax says I have a bad feeling and then mantis says peter told you to stay here He said he should know I don't do anything people tell me Because we have to protect rocket and he says so hop on and we'll ride to the ship And she looks like that's not an answer Well, it gets worse than that free if you think about it. She's like, okay I guess if we ride to the ship Then she gets on and he just rides off into the distant other direction of the ship and she's like drax Why don't you just jump off with your crazy powers that you have to like jump around and think there's a better option Why doesn't she just manipulate him to my shack? Yeah Go back It's actually fucking infuriating that she feels the need to blame Rax when she reaches nebula when she had all the chances in the world to stop him Yeah, but she just didn't really feel like it and now rocket is on his own It doesn't make sense. Like this isn't a joke that you don't really trust. Yeah, this is no joke. They need to die at any moment Yep, but he's just there on his own with this kimura who's not invested in any of this It's so close to drax people drax himself doesn't trust this kimura. So there's that too exactly And I'm saying like you could on the planet that's potentially very hostile Even though all of the people you've encountered are friendly, you know that this is like the High evolutionary's planet. Yeah, I don't know. This is some weird like Oh, it's funny all like cultists or something are creepy or they can get like mind-controlled to do something at a whim So someone would like be it is fair to mention at this point in the film It's like, well, didn't she say you can't manipulate friends feelings like that Wait, so first of all you'd argue it's well worth it if it's to save rockets life, of course But secondly she doesn't believe Yeah, it's also the kind of manipulation is important too Um, yes, it is horrible writing to get them separate But I was gonna say what's really fucked up is that if she was to like touch his head and give him A command that would get him back to protecting rocket. It might sound like this Drax you care about rocket And it'd be like, oh there you go that'll set it back. It's like, why would you have to tell him that? He already cares about rocket for fuck's sake And then yeah, um, it's bad enough on Drax's part But now it's like double bad because fucking mantis can stop him, but she won't and these are the kinds of things It's because of their abilities That they can like end up in serious trouble because the plot like issues in terms of just like I would love to be with James Gunn when he was writing that moment be like Why wouldn't mantis just control him just to see what he'd say if he would just be like, uh I don't know He just she doesn't think about it at that point Or something because like what would it be? What would you think would you just like no way he forgets mantis's power, right? I don't think he forgot No, I mean how that's like her thing her big thing she can do. It's like her power Like what was everyone going to fly? I just forgot it was like the first conversation that you had with her Was about her abilities and then you like because you guys already mentioned, right? Drax considers Gamora dead to him Doesn't trust anyone, but what is current Gamora's goal? to leave She's the only one in the ship She could just abandon you all exactly This could I mean a different version of this movie has her deciding not to leave when she has a chance But i'm just too confused about what's going on here to know if that's even a anything And then the final question. Why didn't they just Get the ship and neither like no can neither Drax Mantis and we know with Gamora can't for some reason pilot the ship I assume they can't but I don't think I've ever seen them do it Maybe well because it seems like Peter and rocket. They are they're the pilots I guess so Yeah, that's the way you could explain it I just would have thought at this point with this many years that might have been with A nebula can fly so maybe they should have left nebula and then taken like Drax or something Mantis when you broaden it out quite a bit and you see this whole scene It's just like man james's goals of putting characters in particular places are so funky like and how he gets it to happen is so weird Uh, yeah, I mean I totally yeah, it's uh, it's Yep, not great He's the high evolutionary for plot Huh, so um Think uh the high evolutionary then tell yeah because they walk into the room and we had that flashback the the big one And then uh, we cut back and Peter's like you guy with thing on his head You have the thing we want and then the high evolutionary explains that um After what happened Oh, shit. That's saying they pilot in the holiday special Oh, yeah, that's right Drax and mantis fly to uh, they fly to the earth well Oh Oh We're producing all of these I love the idea of the visualization of the holiday special coming up from behind the stabbing this film in the back They can fly that's right. Well Because you can't even use the justification that like oh We don't want to fly this ship over there because we want to protect rocket like it's it's so obvious They haven't hidden it at all Rockets just there In the middle of the suburb Well, we're highlighting all these potential issues and if none of them actually came to any kind of realization It'd be somewhat like of a flaw, but like we actually see this come into play because of how fucking stupid all the guardians are So annoying because um, basically I evolutionary explains he's got his new gravity powers, uh, especially after things that happened And um, then we have one of his subordinates the the lady say she says war pig now And then nebula sees war pig launch and head over to their ship And I was just thinking to myself like so High evolutionaries plan literally was as soon as they arrive no matter how many there are I'm just gonna go tell war pig to go kidnap the the rocket raccoon and and he's like but but What if drax was still there? What if mantis was still there? What if nebula was there? How does this work? They can kill war pig Yeah, I mean he'll try his hardest, but like I don't think he wins that fight And you're like, why does he send more people? Why isn't he going? He's unstoppable. Yeah, he's crazy powerful He should just write down the road. It's so like what's going on You have an army And they've got a ship man. Like if war pig like they've shot him with that he'd be fucking dead as well Um Then the high evolutionary says your people had a wonderful spirit or had have wonderful spirit Some of the finest art and literature a fabulous place. If not for the ignorance and bigotry Get me in my heart there Um Yeah, and he says it inspired me to create the counter earth all of the good and none of the bad And uh, something I kind of enjoyed I guess is you as he was saying this star wars is like I don't care. I don't need another speech from a whack job talking about how he needs to conquer the universe Um because something to do with like daddy issues Because his mother didn't love him or something like that. Then he says I'm not trying to conquer it. I'm trying to perfect it Um Yeah, you know, it's it's kind of funny right because like star wars line is indicative of a frustration that we as the audience might have Because they are all blending into each other and then this is almost like a good line for the conversation But also a meta line of like no, I'm different. I am different Oh, I'm just trying to do that that thing We'll say I I really like the way chris pratt plays this scene. Uh, that's I think he's great in the whole movie He's gone now, but uh The movie cynic. He saw he thought he phoned it in and I just couldn't oh shit, did he? Yeah, he said that in the beginning. Oh, I missed that I thought chris was great in this film. I thought he was really good. Yeah, he's very good Um Yeah, I get fucked movie cynic now I thought it was lame how much gamora sucks with uh against war pig I was thinking that If you're gonna make gamora go on this punished arc with the ravages It would be cool that if she was like a better fighter than our gamora Maybe more ruthless already But she just yeah, we're gonna do that the reason she survives quote-unquote war pig is she just lucks the fuck out which we were about to get to um So, uh Stalard highlights, uh, how is the world's perfect when you've got an octopus selling drugs to people with cockroach heads And then he's like well, it's not that's why I'm going to raise it Which uh, I don't know man. I think this is around about the time of the film where a high evolutionary just completely falls off for me Um, there's a lot of other stuff that's gonna happen soon, but Well, he's gonna destroy the entire planet and civilization because Uh, things didn't quite work out. It just it just goes too far for me. There seems to be some Yeah, like you're like completely start from scratch because honestly the nothing to study here at all Yeah, like surely do like over there things seem to be working out really well So you're gonna destroy the entire how much money and time is it gonna take? You know, I remember you have a whole planet to work with here Remember, he said he's gonna be at one point. He's looking for that Part of uh, rocket's thinking that he wants to put into his new batch. Whatever. It's just like, why can't you Put that into so to speak because that's apparently how it works into the the people on counter earth Yeah, put it in the water supply or something. He doesn't know what it is Like he doesn't know he has to study rockets. Why once in back he needs his plan is to study rockets So he wouldn't raise the planet in preparation. I was about to say his plan is to he's explicit He wants to put rockets trait into the new certain species of people and thus refer to refer to all the kids in it Well, I think the I I mean Either way whether he gets rocket or not This is something he's been doing for a while is the application, right? That he's like trying new things and that doesn't work out and so he raises it and starts over again so Feel like that. So I don't know if I'm being misunderstood. What I'm saying is Mechanically, he's going to take rockets trait from his brain and put it into this brand new set of people And that's going to give them what they're missing He's also got a huge planets worth of people where he's saying that they're not perfect Why not if you're going to be able to do it with them have the experiment run of putting that trait from rocket into counter earth as well I guess it does depend on whether it's something he can just Add in to what he's already made or whether he needs to start from scratch I'm not really sure because we don't really know what that x-factor is My theory is that this is all bullshit and they're just going to have an action scene built off him blowing up a whole planet Yeah, well, I don't understand what's not in character for him without absolute insane waste of resources and research I mean blowing up a whole planet like Absolutely, not to mention how do you how do you see this the whole point is that you're doing this under the eye of like galactic Ethics like you're you're gonna blow up a planet like no it working. They're gonna find out Did he blow up the planet? I can't remember or did he blew up all of the surface of the planet Yeah So that will be noticed Oh, I mean it is space, but like I don't know like what it looks like in this universe I'm strictly appealing to how ineffective No, I know I know what you're saying It's like he says that he can like put the traits of rocket into the new people Why can't he try that for the old people like on counter earth? Why can't he do that? That's a good question. I'm just gonna give it a shot. Sure. Yeah, I understand Whatever argument one would come up with it's still worth the experiment. Is it not? Yeah, you have a whole world to tinker around with and mess around with and use to plan and try new things and Just like I said the resources required to do all this stuff like you like this is nuts He doesn't have limited resources He believes the people like the new people are already imperfect. Anyway, that's why he wants rocket's brain So like Anything more some of the shots that we doesn't like, you know imperfection sick and it's like Yeah, he believes the new people are imperfect. That's why he wants rocket's brain Yeah, it's a bit of a jump forward but he says the kids he's currently got a really impressive biologically But that they have rote memorization. They don't have like creative thinking like it does And so if he's willing to put rockets fleams into them instead of just ditching them Then I don't see why it matches at all that he's willing to destroy this entire civilization instead of experimenting with them in any way No, I think that's fair. You're right um I yeah, because Yeah, I there's a couple things one. I don't understand how he has the near infinite resources to do all this And that's not really made clear like how to see How to see finance his whole operation is a good question, especially if he's gonna like Like fire bomb the entire planet every time he wants to start over it looks like it was detonating charges that have Set like deep within the surface of the planet. Like I say deep like maybe subterranean minefield Yeah, we're about to get yeah The implication is clearly is clearly that he has done this several times before it is pretty horribly inefficient For sure. Um, I think you put something. Yeah, like a put something in the atmosphere. So I don't know but Yeah, that would be way more efficient, right? Yeah, explosions are better for action scenes. That's so true The war pig collects up rocket for the second time. This is after gamora said hey drop the raccoon And this time war pig says I have p3 and I'm on the way That line being delivered to the high evolutionary is what activates the destruction of the planet Like I'm not saying that in the sense of the line specifically. I'm saying it's what makes them believe now is the time to leave Uh, he basically thinks I have rocket. I have one It's like, okay war pig just said they're on the way Yeah, he's not on your ship that you're gonna use. Oh, yeah, the timing of that's awful. It's absolutely nuts Yeah, he's like he can't get on the ship in time. That's so funny And the funniest part as well is the adam warlock a man who is infinitely more fucking powerful than war pig Gets completely fucked by the explosions The war pig heading back to the ship likely would have been fucking killed anyway Along with rocket and the brain vaporized. Yeah That's awful Uh, why would they do that and as if it's not bad enough gamora is about to die because she's battling war pig And adam warlock saves her by accident like he's coming in to fuck them up and get rocket himself It just happens to time up perfectly Uh, yep, I hate that shit. It's so annoying. What is he even doing in this movie? um so, uh Starlords and Groot they're like, oh shit. This this is all kicking off now. All right. It's time. Let's kill them all And then the high evolutionary is like ha ha ha and just slams them into the ground with the gravity powers As you'd expect it's like, yep. Okay. So I was like as an audience member. I'm sitting there like so What could possibly happen now? Like I just don't understand how they can possibly get out of this. Well Welcome to the power of changing scenes Oh, that sounds fun because we uh, we go back to adam warlock He's mostly talking to his pet being like chill out You know And then war pig is like dude. We're on the same team. What are you doing? And he says to war pig I need the credit chum to save my civilization. Be a good creepy thing and back off And I was just singing to myself like How insane is this if they never hired adam warlock to do anything they may have just won yeah And and you think like well, that's kind of like an irony, isn't it? It's kind of an interest and it's like, I don't find it interesting at all I just find this annoying like War pig has direct communication with them imagine war pig was like adam is stopping me from collecting rocket That would fuck him But just completely fuck him and that's all war pig needed to do. Instead war pig decides to attack adam I guess war pig doesn't know who he is Yeah, because yeah, he's just fucking wrecked What would it even look like though if war pig is like, yeah, I got rocket and then adam shows up with the rocket You know, it's like, um What the fuck happened war pig said he had him? Did you kill him? You know, did you do that just because you wanted to like curry favor? I suppose the funny thing is free that wouldn't even have been able to happen because if he had rocket and then he flew to His mum he would have exploded rockets dead. Yeah. Yeah, and that's it. The high evolutionaries plans are all over it's done Because he detonated the planet And so maybe someone's my old boy Maybe someone's asking right now. Well, where is rocket rocket has been disconnected from his life support with apparently lung filling with liquid And running around with with uh, gamora. She's just running with him like he's a rag doll I when I saw that I was like, you can't fucking convince me that he's near death needs life support And you can just pull him off it and he's gonna make it. I just don't buy a morality rag doll I just don't I can't deal with it. It's so annoying. He's not that He's not that he's just not that resilient. He's a little raccoon guy The last we heard of it was he was on death's door and that nebula was like he's nearly dead His lungs are filling with liquid like you can't I can't believe this like no um so, yeah, uh The planet starts to absolutely just blow apart and there's this moment Anybody who's able to see the movie in whatever format when this is listened to in future When you see gamora heading up to the ship She stops because literally about two meters away from her to a right Or is a man and a woman And she looks at them and they just explode they get annihilated It looks like a bomb goes off beneath them and there's this shot We're like shit tons of fire smoke and debris all blasted into gamora's direction She lifts up her arm and then puts it back down and starts walking up the ship I was like, what the? Like she should have just gotten like annihilated, but she's totally fine. Loads of explosions go off near this ship. By the way, it does nothing It's just fortune it fucking annoying Um, but yeah adam believes like oh shit. My mom's probably in trouble and he tries to get to it, but he's late blows up And I don't know about you guys mom in it explodes But I was like sweet this will give him the motivation to switch sides. This should be fine the obvious Set up for what is going to happen with his character because how could you possibly even think anything else would be done? this is such a clear and Direct and obvious way for him to turn against the high evolutionary and get his revenge and help the guardians And save rocket and do all that stuff. This is clearly the setup. So how else could it possibly go? Uh nebula contacts gamora to say that she should just get out save rocket get out get out get out into the atmosphere Sort of out of the oven get into orbit basically Um, and so gamora tries but we realize quite quickly that gamora does not know how to fly the ship Which I find very fucking strange You think she'd have a decent grasp of being able to pilot things I bet a lot of people would in this world I get that like even if you know how to pilot x it doesn't mean you know how to pilot y like I know but I just don't buy that gamora doesn't know how to Basically pilot the thing Yeah, he doesn't have to do anything amazing Just I expect people to go out. I don't have to look pretty just go up like if you can go forwards You can get to peter do that but like in an upward lead direction Oh, yeah, uh, I didn't buy that at all and well Keep that in mind. We're circling all the way around lots of things happen at the same time here Uh nebula and no, sorry nebula is like where the fuck is drax and mantis and then they they're behind her on the bike like what the fuck And mantis blames drax like I said it's kind of annoying, but you know what we talked about it. It's okay We can keep moving. We did talk about it. We can move on They do not ask gamora to pick them up. They just ask gamora to leave But that was really odd considering they're basically on death store as well Yeah, you know, I mean like like there's so much weird shit going on really quick. Yeah, everyone's making really fucking weird decisions uh And so I set it up. I said how how uh quill and and group with how are they gonna get out of this situation? What are you gonna do? We cut back And um, well the high evolutionary is no longer using gravity on them. So they continue their plan That's good Yeah, it's uh, I know that like there's worse things that have happened But that one I think stuck out to me the most in the whole film. I just couldn't I couldn't I just couldn't deal with it I was like can't tell me that your way to write yourself out of the situation is to just say he didn't stopped That's that's just that's lame. Like he used his powers and then he just stopped using them Like that's so pathetic. You gave up. Why did you give him the power? What's wrong with you? Yeah, just give him like some tools or have them like have the staff do stuff I mean he tells people to he like he doesn't have any power himself. He has to tell people what to do. He has lackeys It's um, it's done in a way as well that like maybe there was a scene that explains it because quill says Now kill them all As if something has happened, but nothing has happened And yeah, I want to make that group pulls out a grenade and tosses it and then pulls out loads of guns Gives quill his guns and they all start shooting and the grenade goes off in such a way That it drops debris in between them and the high evolutionary. He's blocked off from them That's um, that's the thing that happened. I'm not sure a grenade would do that, but I guess it could but uh boy It's it's not it's it's not even just the fact that the grenade did it that way It's that they throw it on the left side of the room and in the right side of the room All the debris comes down. It's like, okay Yeah No, uh, I thought that star lord and peter shooting together was really cool Oh, yeah, I agree. I agree star lord and peter shooting together was really cool I think you mean kimura and peter What I'm sorry. I was already just thinking about how Um, yeah grew in star lord. I'm getting a little bit tired. I'm sorry, but um the The the the reason I say that sentence is to highlight that I've got nothing to praise it for Um, at all. Yeah, I just I like it. It's just cool to see that's all I've got Look neat And he actually said he when he says I am Groot when shooting them this time they get the animation right That's right. They actually have the like lip sync Actually be correct instead of in the first film where he actually screams like I am like To or something and then they just have it be Groot Just It just has a look right So, uh, we've only got scientist man left who in his little head thing. He's got that passcode they need for for rocket And so star lord damon is gunning him. He's like, no, please don't do it. No, don't kill me and he puts the gun down He's like, oh, thank you. He goes a little bit premature and then runs at him and tackles him And they go out of the building like It's like a shit. Let's just say they are like several miles up in the air Oh, yeah, they're there It talked about this on open bar But I'd gotten so frazzled at this point That I was like, of course peter jumps out of a building Why not? Isn't that he's he's he's uh, he's star lord with his either his boots his rocket boots for the error rigs from guardians 2 Nope, none of that It's so funny. He has neither He has neither but like what I've highlighted isn't even that I was highlighted that He could literally take a gun and shoot himself in the head at this point. I'd be like, he'll be fine He's gonna figure it out. He's peter. He knows how to figure that out. He'll be fine um, and of course he does figure it out and he is fine because uh This is fucking awkward ass shot. So grutes gonna jump in on after him grab them and create um Like a like a series of vines leaves and think yeah to make wings Um, but the thing before it happens is uh, we see the high evolutionary is finally cleared all the debris So he has a clear view and he sees grute notice him Look at the window start running jump and land it and then he just goes Yeah, it's it's done in such a way that I was like You'll he'll grab him before he jumps out like we we have like a couple of seconds of the shot of grute running towards to jump out He's like, oh, yeah, he'll grab him, but no he just lets him jump out Which um, if he grabbed grute the whole like that's it's over like He dies I don't know if this was being set up in a way that we were like it's a fake out a subtle fake out Because it seems like it was created as a subtle fake out. That's what I think when I When I see that is that we were we were expecting the high evolutionary to like grab him and pull him back in the ship but he doesn't so So I want to chat said why would he grab grute or why would the high evolutionary grab grute because he wants him dead Yeah Why wouldn't he if he just let him go after he's closed it I don't I refuse to accept at this point that after everything that's fucking happened the high evolutionary is just gonna be like Well, if you escape that's cool. What we get is the high evolutionary saying Huh, who's idiots the jump in like that's a great survival plan It's done this with grute before it doesn't matter if high evolutionary grabs grute. It's over loses nothing He's lose. It's it's over for peter. He's dead And so was the other guy the whole movie ends He has to expect peter's gonna live because he didn't just jump out of a window to die It's really worth the whole the film ends here if he grabs grute peter dies the other guy dies Rockets dead as someone's just highlighted. How isn't grute one of the most fascinating life forms to the high evolutionary ever Yeah, there's like incredibly resilient free man He thought he would they were going to die. He's incredibly fucking stupid if he thinks that at this point Why why he thinks that grutes jumping out to die? Yes They're referencing the film at that point the high evolutionary says that's an interesting survival plan to jump into an exploding planet I First of all, they have a ship and friends operating it So yeah, why do you assume they're just dead now? What's wrong with you? Why is he so stupid? And then of course no the tech that exists in this world that we've just mentioned Yes, peter doesn't have it on him right now, but the fucking high evolutionary didn't know that I assume on this guy very deliberately jumped out of the window with one of my guys Like there was a purpose to that. No, they just wanted to die. They had no plan I just saw them pull off a like a like a trap where they had all the guns and everything Was their plan to just shoot everyone for a bit and jump out the window? Like I can't like what is so interesting to me too because he captures the others later He captures them. Yeah, why the fuck isn't he capturing Groot? like What does what does he stand to to to gain from letting Groot jump out? What does he gain from that? I'm not. I'm they wanted out of the marble universe They try I got it Not yet. Well, no peter doesn't have it. No, he doesn't He isn't out All right Worth emphasizing more. He doesn't have the error ring. Why? Why doesn't he have it? It just it lets you fly like always have that you can fly with it So you always have it with you Um, maybe he's what Groot had another gun on him. He might use to shoot him You can't shoot him if you lock him down with gravity He can't do anything that's what they did at fist and then they just stopped doing it for no reason so anyway They slam down You know it softens the landing and they slam that guy down as like a almost like a pillow for them to bash into the floor And then they start cutting out his um his thing from his head to get the info And it just so happens that completely luckily unrelated to all of this Gamora crash lands right in front of them What are the odds? Very low. Yeah, that is helpful She was told to get out of the whole planet and she ended up right next to star lord. It's like, oh Oh, that's if she if she didn't end up right next to him He'd be dead and Groot Yep Because uh films over again the whole place would have fucking exploded by the time she makes a trip back from orbit So yeah, it's so fucking lucky And then it gets even worse, uh, he says whoever used his communicator to this is this didn't have to be a coincidence He could have just been like yep, uh Become pick us up I don't know why they did any of this this way. You could have had Gamora pick all of them up Every one of them No, but you need the team separated so that they're in the spaceship for the third act I don't even think you need that I mean you don't need that but if that's what you want then that's Yeah That's why that's happened. So um Yeah, uh So you have to think about this like they do this really fucking fast and annoyed the hell on me. So You have first you see Gamora, uh drax and mantis They just jump onto his ship as it's rising You can't see any access point. They're just jumping onto it And then they they hook on to right at the end this this platform that does indeed have a door That can get them in and I was just like wow That was real fucking lucky and you haven't coordinated at all with nebula. Like I said is Gamora to pick you up That just seems like the obvious choice, but it's fine. So there's a console And uh nebula starts like hacking into it, which is actually fine with me I um, I give nebula quite a bit of beneficial like like writing purposes She can hack into mostly everything. She seems to be that kind of a sophisticated. I'm okay with it um Hacking doesn't work So it's like oh shit and they start uh, they start heading up to the point where they can't breathe They're struggling to breathe and so drax tries hitting the door Again and again and again and then it breaks open And then and not only does it break open it like completely comes off of its Hinges or it's slide or whatever like the it falls inwards Um like he just putt pushed through one of them last doors designed for space and he can punch it open Why didn't you just have it to where The she only gets the doors to open a little bit and he reaches his hands in there and he pulls it open and he saves him with Strength just do that. He saves them with his strength. It's been cool And he's struggling really hard and mantis is like you can do this drax You can do this and so they all kind of have like a part to play in some degree That'd be a thing Instead he just knocks down the door I was really surprised they did it that way. I was like, oh, yeah, that doesn't make any sense. All right Yep, no one would have imagined. That's how it would have happened So we see that and then we cut back You got star lord piloting with gamora in the ship as well and they've made it to orbit And then gamora says what kind of monster slaughtered as a civilization And star lord says we're a mantis and drax Gamora says I don't know And then they go to rocket This infuriates me for many many many reasons. What what should happen there is oh, fuck. They're dead I'm not sure where to begin with this. So um, what would have happened is they had the device Uh star lord and group that made their way into the ship They would have realized pretty quickly because gamora would have told them she's alone He's like why what the fuck's going on She said I don't know. I don't know. He's like where's drax where's mantis because they'd be like they're not here So then star lord would be like so drax and mantis are somewhere on this planet. It's exploding. We have a ship. We got to find them Because that's that's literally how guardians of the galaxy fucking works We've had this payoff before where a whole planet is getting destroyed and they all need to make sure they all get out What you do then is you have him activate the little thing And you go holy shit nebula drax mantis. I'll come save you Where are you guys like care about you and then they say don't you worry? We're safe. We're actually on his ship Maybe we can get in and maybe we can sabotage him from inside or something. I don't know get out of there quill Then he'd be like you betcha friendos. I'm glad you're safe Sure would be distraught if anything happened to you But no, he apparently didn't ask about them until they're in fucking orbit that he says Where are they where where the guys go and then she's like, I don't know. He's like, all right that move it on All right, those goon those goofy goobers. They're probably off doing something You know them and throw that fine on this exploding planet that fucking drew me nuts That that's that's some serious damage to star lord right there. That's not at all what he would do That was madness And then of course there's the fact that the whole fucking planet got exploded So that's gonna Why don't you go ahead rex that's gonna be a bit of a stickler in my mind for a while Um, I walked out of the theater with that sort of looming over The entirety of sort of the experience that we spent We spent a pretty decent chunk of uh chunk of time With these people in humanizing them and they were friendly and they helped and they Were like they we had the joke about the car and the dad and we have all We specifically had all these scenes of them looking at like photographs where everyone's a bat And they went to the house and they got beverages for them and they live in towns And they showed the kid and then there was that one scene where the two of them were hugging on the lawn And they just got exploded I don't know what the fuck you what are we doing like and then you just that's the tragedy rags You see I feel like you got blown up I mean It's not like older on you know they're saying some older on where you don't get to see the happy people I'm just so like You just didn't have to do that and you did you know, yeah, but the high evolutionary is really bad rags I thought the whole point would be them trying to save the planet as this is Lost cause lost cause it's over for them. All right All the the little girl with the ball and the girl and the woman who fell and scraped her knee Um in the bats that they went into their house and they talked and had a language in life. They're just all dead They're just all dead. They all died. The entire world is exploding around them That entire civilization everything that they created and built is all just dreams Up in flames destroyed like them That's just moving past it really quickly And so that really bothers me that they decided to do that in this and there doesn't seem to be any You know like acknowledgement of it other than yeah, the planet exploded. That's not good. Well, I mean it was a big set pace, all right Um, well, I'm gonna push back a little bit I think my big problem with it is the fact that blowing up the planet doesn't actually make sense But hypothetically if it made sense for his plan to actually blow the planet up I think The fact that it blows up is sort of unironically what's adding to like the horror of the situation like I don't we already know that he's super evil and he like the idea that we already know he's done this before We've already learned that is it like emphasizing the tragedy of the situation. I think requires more of a You know perspective of the people who were dying here, you know If we had it, I feel like I feel like if that happened you would just say it's more cruel um I If we had it so the nebula Fucking hell. Gamora did pick them all up And then as they're about to lift off Um, I don't mind which character does it. I think they'd all care. So someone says what about what about them? What about the people? And they're like, you know, there's this maybe someone in the distance and there is an explosion It just takes them out and they realize like even the ground they're on is starting to slip It's like we've got to go we have to go we have to get out of here And then they lift off and in the distance they can just see fire engulfing the whole planet and they're just staring and watching it And they like incomplete disbelief and it's like silent. I would be mostly okay Yeah, it was treated for what it was that would go a long way. Yeah, okay I got the impression that you Gravity of the situation right it would be like you had a film that was set on earth and earth got blown up And like the Avengers were more concerned with like their own shit Then the fact that earth got blown up, you know, they barely seem to notice it's insane Yeah, like they're people. I know that they're like funny animal people but they met them And you talk to them and communicate it and they helped you and they were being just nice And they care about their children's well-being And we just like discarded them for an action scene And as uh rags you kind of implied but I think is seriously a thing is like There's this assumption that's just like we can't we can't save them. It's like, oh I mean, do you want to try and save maybe a couple people at least? I need something else for you guardians. I need something more than that Boy, we gave a lot of shits about all the fuckers and cages on the ship Man, we all we really really cared about them We as a big deal that we save them and it's good that you did don't get me wrong, but Boy, I mean the attempt the attempt to save the people on the planet as futile as it may have actually ended up being would have been really helpful Well, it's it's a standard um, it's a standard thing in movies, right? Well, you have the hero try to save somebody and they fail but they still try it anyway Like even if it's a little thing or even just like a reaction to realizing that somebody's died It's like those little things that go a long way. It would have fueled the third act payoff of like this time We leave no one behind. Yeah, exactly But um, it is fucking actually bizarre the uh, it's barely acknowledged and they're not that sad about it It's more so a like what a dick that he did that. It's like Yeah, what? That's a norm mcdonald's what a real jerk the whole planet So, uh, yeah, well by the way, he could have just left him and gone somewhere He could have just left could have just left him But you know Uh, yeah, so pretty uh, pretty terrible pretty terrible Like I said, I thought when the move when it started to happen with the movie that that That we would be on the planet and on the ship and we would be like trying to prevent this calamity from happening It's like, you know nova core and everything, right? It's like we got to save the planet That's a big deal there's a lot of people on it and they're fighting really hard and it's you know A lot of people, you know fight and die to save the the world and everything. Um So, you know that I was in a guardians movie but Like I don't know like what the deal is here. What what were you thinking? uh Next we next we got a scene. We got quite a scene next. It's um Is it the one it's nebula rax and mantis So here we go. It begins with uh nebula being very upset as she fucking should be She uh with drax is like, ha you're lucky. I was able to knock down that door with mine She says rocket and gamora probably dead because of you And he says I didn't know Which is not even close to true I mean, yeah, it's not like that should be on his mind And it's not I dare I say it's not what drax would say uh at this point. Well, uh, yeah He did know he knows he knew he would say something like I didn't think it would be like I didn't think it would that would happen Like I mean, obviously you didn't think that the planet would explode But like you knew that some bad shit could happen Yeah, and that's when I think when you're writing it you'd maybe try and construct him a rationalization But it's drax. I think he would just be like I know Yeah, I fucked up Well, because this this is a good instance of highlighting like nebula here Like her she's she's got like the right priorities at the moment of realizing like what's happened Like she fully understands the gravity of the situation at least from her perspective. Yeah So, you know nebula is okay at the moment like I said, I can't even buy him saying like I don't know I didn't but it's like you motherfucker. You were told and you just left and it's not even clear why you just Did it and we all know why it's because the script forced you to you wouldn't have done it Yeah, it's fucking annoying But she says oh, you didn't know when are you gonna stop using the excuse of being some big dumb clown for contributing nothing And for the rest of us having to carry the slack And uh, I'll be honest with you in the cinema. I was like I kind of picked up. I was like this is interesting. Okay Yeah, I'll just keep my mind off the genocide. Yeah a little bit. Uh, she she bringing up the fact that drax as much as um We enjoy him as an audience member It's gotten to the point where it should have bled into their actual work that he is a clown And that's all he fucking does is be a clown and now it's actually manifested in a way that could have killed several people That they care about But now is the time it's like, okay good And she pushes him when she does that and then mantis who I want to praise. I is her name palm clementine palm I'm gonna I thought her acting was fucking excellent in the scene. Very good. Yes. Yes She says don't push him. You don't have the right to push him and uh Nebula says you you're no better. The only thing we can count on you for is when someone shows weakness, you'll be right there to support it Again, I was like fuck man. I'm enjoying this Wow, yeah There's all this stuff is coming out the three of them. Oh the mantis says, I don't care Uh, I know you need to find fault in everyone else to make yourself feel okay. So find it in me I was like, oh Another good one By the way, I wanted this throughout the fucking film Yep, like really character based stuff This is a window into what could have been throughout the whole movie And she says, oh go to hell nat and then she says you don't have the right to push him. It's not his fault. He's stupid and uh Gamora says he's a liability And then mantis says he makes us laugh and he loves us. How is that a liability? I quite love as a line. I really like that as a line Um, and it's just it's it's an acknowledgement that that's why he's there at this point It's really not to do with his strength that they really like him Um, which is a form in a sense of acknowledgement and repair of the damage that's been done to him over time as a character To nebula as a very utility focused person I think a more again. I'm sorry It's it's fine. Um There's also this element of this film did give him a lot of credit in terms of his ability to fight and be resilient So there is also that too. He's not just guy with knives Who isn't like I feel like we're back to a almost like guardians of the galaxy one kind of he will fuck shit up Kind of guy. So that helps a lot. You know that like I said if if we were in control of it I think we would want to start writing him having like Less always stupid some stuff. That's not stupid things to say his yeah The comedy comes more from him and his ability to like gauge social You know his level of social awareness in terms of being in those kinds of situations Not that he's stupid. He just doesn't quite He he's just he's like he's like he's from someone who's a different culture Um, and he is useful. He can do things and in combat. He is extremely Powerful and strong and resilient. Um and fearless. Yeah Um, so when she says, uh I was that a liability all you care about is intelligence and competence And he says I'm not sure I appreciate this defense Which I actually thought was a really strong line because What was just said by mantis is all you care about is intelligence and competence the implication being he has not got intelligence and competence So he's like, yeah, I don't super appreciate that And then she says and that's and that's a funny line But it it totally fits with something he'd actually say and maybe mantis would say the moment So it's like that's the kind of line that yeah, that's that's incidentally funny Uh And then she says he has sadness, but he's the only one of you. It doesn't hate himself. I don't care if he's stupid Again, I was like, ah, it's another good line because I feel like that is applicable to all of them except him He's the only one that's kind of got no issues in that department Yeah, um We don't know what's going on Okay, yeah, he's a great good stuff. Okay. So then he says you think I'm stupid And it really feels like the film's getting pretty damn serious because like yeah, I guess this is it The realization that she really does believe you're a stupid person which sucks to hear from a friend And she says yes and walks up to him as forget And he says ha you're lucky I was able to open that door with my incredible strength And that's it It's really bad. Oh, this hit my soul so bad We're in depths of despair We had maybe one of the best little exchanges in the movie maybe between the guardians of all time And they purposefully decided it wasn't an accident They wrote the script so the actors acted it it went through post and they put it into a finalized product That was distributed into theaters across the world They completely and totally undid it You know, well What's a fucking Gad we've got as a fix Literally just chop out that bit And I actually love the ending of that scene being that he acknowledges that they all think he's fucking stupid And then he goes Ah, you're lucky. I was able to open that door with my strength like he's being like, all right, let's move on. We're moving on We're just moving on. Yeah, I still don't like the idea that I have Um, I don't like the idea that they just concluded that they absolutely. Yeah I'm saying we could even try and mend it by cutting a line out just a line But uh, yeah, no not the ending I was fucking looking for with that and that's it that never gets brought up ever again Nope, because why would it because that never happened for dracks that experience Make that choice Oh, you don't get to know that Do we have to go through the layers of why this is Do it go through all the layers All right, let's start with the perpetrator of this horrific crime uh against humanity uh mantis so First off we have the callback to the original time Earlier in the movie where she said no, we don't do that sort of things to friends It's one thing to do little things like uh Like a little oh remember you make you fell in love with that napkin or whatever it was Like yeah, that that's a joke and he knows about it and he knows that it is what it is That's compartmentalized into being a little fun thing that they did. Uh, we talk about that later, but There is a huge difference between that And essentially erasing someone's memories because when you do that Like a person is their memories essentially Their experiences are kind of who they are To wipe someone's memory is essentially to kill a person and to And and to put a blank slate in their place Um, and that's a very very serious thing Um memories are very um, they're very core to who you are as an agent And so to take that away is to like destroy a part of someone's you know destroy a part of who they are In the same way that you like cutting off someone's leg In a sense. Have you um arguably worse of the four of us here has have we seen eternal sunshine and spotless mind rags? You have right? Yeah, that's the um I have uh That's the gym carry. Yeah. Oh, we watched it together didn't we I think we did it was a long time ago But I love that movie and it's specifically for the very Wait, I just did you don't hear me? I haven't seen it I didn't say anything I was worried that you were about to ramp up to a spoiler because you didn't Fair Fringy said was fair. This is being cautious. Yeah, I'm not gonna spoil it. I wouldn't spoil those people in chat It's one of the best movies. It's up there. All right. All right. Well it regards memory and uh The points it makes about it are fucking beautiful and If you need to understand why this is such an upsetting scene go watch that movie first Then you can have maybe an easier understanding of it. I don't know um, it's So it's not just for actively choose for somebody else like what that what they get to like Actually believe and know about themselves like when you say it in front of them. Yeah, oh shit That was a little bit too far get rid of that Remember like the episode of rick and morty with morty's mindblowers like that was fucked That was the point of like, yeah, though Just like completely manipulating and screwing with morty's mind to remove in instances Like as much as just rick getting embarrassed because he said you shouldn't take things for granite And he decided to delete that memory. It's like you can't be doing that to other people abusive just the the ethics of destroying someone's personhood There is the lingering element of The fact that yeah, there's obviously like the property elements of this isn't your thing to take away Uh, that's mine. My memories belong to me. They're they are mine Even if our memories obviously over time will not align Perfectly because our memories, you know work different, but that's still mine. My version of what happened is still my own It's in my head um And then there's also the more existential dread that comes along with You are working alongside someone that you know has the ability to erase memories in such a way that you will never know That the memory was erased So it is it is you are operating Yeah, you are operating on a trust system that this person Is not going to do that to you and has not done that to you in the past It is purely based off of trust Yep nebula in the future could tell drax that she did that I mean, I saw that's dire when that's catastrophic Imagine someone came to you and said, yeah, you're uh, you're your guy there You're your friend of many years that you go on all these adventures with turns out I just want to let you know this um, they told me not to tell but i'm doing it Uh, there was like a whole four hour period that You don't remember because she erased your memory And we had a big conversation about like what she thinks about you and what I think about you and all that sort of thing And like that would freak me the fuck out Um Because you wouldn't know if that was the only time because obviously you can't remember you can't remember the thing that was stolen from you Um, and that was not hers to steal That's drax's mind, which is something she made clear According to this movie that I guess what's fucking forgot man about it So uh, there's something extra baffling about the fact that she acknowledges that it's wrong earlier in the movie only to do it And that the movie seems it I think the most troubling part Ethically is that the movie seems to think well actually in this case. It probably was the right thing. I think so I can know it was It looks like the movie is in favor of this move which sucks This is uh, it's a character assassination is what this is called. Yep. Mantis did not leave this movie unscathed She has uh, she is No longer He's no she she has dropped many tears in our tier list for characters Oh, dude, this kind of shit really fucks me like like what a piece of shit you are Like to do something like that to somebody and just be like, yeah, well, I know better like I know what's bad for him It reduces drax down to a fucking like action figure. He's not a person anymore Yeah, oh, yeah And any time that he gets upset about the things that I might have said to him just God He took it pretty well too. Honestly. He did take it very well. That was that was the Opportunity you have him talk about how he's like listen like I know like I Like I know but maybe I've gone a bit too far in some places like I understand I just it could be the first time ever that he actually says something from the heart Very genuine and very intelligent emotionally It could be acknowledging the fact that he often is trying to have fun because this world is harsh And you just you know, sometimes it goes too far summon along those lines just anything He acknowledges that he knows and he just doesn't like to think about it Or like he knew like he knows that his wife didn't marry him for his intellect or Like there's a part of him that recognizes it, but You know, you know, he kind of deals with it in his own sort of way. I mean, I it would be like I don't know Thanks for granted. That's true never take thanks for granted including like your own capacity to remember your life In plus, um, I'm a sculptor kimura too nebula should be fucking terrified now. Oh, yes She doesn't respond either nebula is like, oh, you know what this could be You know what I got do this an implication thing you do I think it's worse rags. I got I got a little inkling of this. I'd have to rewatch it many times to decide Yeah, I got I got an inkling This might have happened before I wonder with how quickly and defensively and reflexively she did it No, nebula doesn't even seem to care like it's something they do with drax all the time Drax's mind blowers It's gonna be an episode It's in the galaxy Drax is actually like he's just their little toy Yeah, he's He's there to make him laugh and to break open doors He's part of the game Yeah, if he starts to get up at E, you know emotionally or anything then we just tap him and he goes back to being a good boy So we shout at him and let him know we think he's stupid and useless And then we erase it so that he doesn't have the damage from it emotionally But we get to have the satisfaction of having said it to him. Yeah, we get to That's another layer unbottle our feelings. We get to do that But that's another layer like in addition to everything else. She doesn't after saying yes, I do think you're stupid not before Which would not not that either is good, but you know what I'm saying, right? It's like I want to I want to say that like There are a lot of things about the character work in this movie that uh, the movie successfully fooled me into thinking was actually better than it Actually is But this was not one of them. This is the one in the theater. I was like, holy fuck Yeah, this was the one that you can't fool me. So no, like they fooled me on Gomorrah I was like, oh, that's what Gomorrah is like now. Sure But you know on closer inspection not really but this one. Holy crap some extra bad news That flight I took to India. I got the movie of course Yeah When you're just enjoying that moment, uh, because it's so good and fun and everything the the audience are laughing Wait, really? Because no one was laughing in the theater for that moment for me If you know People laughed at that one. Yeah, people laughed at that one, but I was fucking depressed hearing that shit Oh, shit When that's like even worse in a sense that well at least tracks isn't a real person But these are people who just watch this terribly abusive thing happen and it's funny I think that it's just a matter of like sit down and think about what's happening, you know Like if you just oh, yeah fun fun, like, uh, you know like mind trickery, haha, but like Dude, wasn't it? I I know everybody hates to film dark phoenix That was like a big plot point that like Charles had fucked up because he locked up the memories of gene from a childhood Like that was considered a bad thing that she had done that he had done Yeah, they they have the same beats in x-men 3 as well. They talk about how he Yeah, where they judge him for that harshly as they should because it's not that's not his right Well, it's such great drama because in most cases he's actually making a choice that he believes like will save lives Yeah There's a reason ethically for him to do it And still it's like dude, you know, like even then it's like is that your choice to make Like you have the right to make those kinds of calls like even those films those bad films Like acknowledge That's like an important, uh, that's an important A plot point as you can tell this annoyed us This is This is like the I don't think I've ever seen a more efficient way to ruin a really wonderful scene So it's dramatic, isn't it? Yeah, it is great. Oh god It's just a sharp turn off a bridge into the fucking abyss Off you go. Yeah, um It's yeah, it's like running into a brick wall because jumping off a cliff would take too long Like the the fact that's for you happens. It's really It really bugs me Dude, like yeah, this is like the one-two punch of all the people dying on the planet And then this is like those happen like right after each other and I'm like god damn fuck. Um, oof So And yeah, mantis is destroyed unfortunately And when nebula looks like, you know, you should be passively accepting this I would say Nebula is definitely we got issues here, but I think there's issues for all of them at this point There's all been there's been chips at their intelligence like all of them Um gamora's out none mantis is out Uh, yep the um at the beginning I was I was telling mama this when we talked briefly before I was last night and I said I I I really question the creative decision to keep rock it essentially out of this film for a huge chunk of it And now i'm like man, they just put you in they just like froze you in carbonite They insulated it from uh, you're in a little uh, you're in a little sleep Yeah, they just Stasis for a bit Like wow, it's all just highlighted to be fair real gamora is safe and dead at infinity wall Oh Kind of Yeah, real gamora is a great character and it's the same as what happened with well It was what happened with black widow until black widow the film where it's like, oh, you're nice and safe You know not being in this universe anymore, but it's like we can always go back We can always add like history It's not a small amount of damage on drax the whole like, you know abandoning rocket and Being up that guy for you know, you're not caring That's pretty bad And then of course it's hard to even get a read on who he is when it's like what does he even remember about his life? At this point how many versions never got the chance to be It was either metal or mean yesterday said that like is that the reason he's stupid now because they keep wiping his memory So much every time he learns something Yeah, they blame him for that as well like yeah, you're stupid nothing to do with me though You can take out the trash I'll just make drax things drax think that you forgot it's morty's mind But except they don't realize it's bad Geez it's Damn we can move on to a good scene now and all for one one joke for one little joke for a joke Same yeah, so yeah We do it guys move on to a great scene and just sort of you know Get past that so they're uh panicking over getting the passcode in and to obviously activate the med kit to save rocket but he is having a moment in the The other verse in the heaven lands. He's uh He's having that moment in movies stories where they do the thing of your you're near death And you're in a white room and you're talking to someone they do that a lot in movie I don't know. I wonder if it'll happen in real life to us someday any of us, you know We're on we're on that in the white room talking to morgan freeman or something I'll see I'll see a drax who's like wearing a lab coat and he's he's like it's very intelligent And he's like yeah, I was the drax that never got mind wiped by mantis that fucking war So yeah, I get to be you know happy and smart and i'm actually intelligent Professor drax would you and he'd be like would you like to ascend into the stratosphere? That'd be great. Would you like me to unlock all the memories she stole from you? You're like, oh my god um Yeah, uh, he sees lilan. He's like, uh Well, she says friend and he says um, uh and again performance wise I'm not gonna be able to sell it unless you watch the seat itself He says i'm sorry. I let you die. I got you killed. I got everyone killed like Because um, I don't this is a compliment of course that I think this all mesh is quite well in with guardians one and two. There's no sense of like. Oh, this is all made up I can but I can buy that this is what james gonna had on his mind when he was Constructing rocket and and if he if he didn't have it on his mind He laid down all the groundwork. He needed to make this the case Yeah, set up the idea that there is a tragic backstory and something that he deeply regrets And why he pushed people away, you know, why why is he so difficult to form friendships? Why does he care so much so so deeply invested in group, you know, for instance It's like it all it all makes sense. It's all really good Like good writing great performance um Yeah, she says uh, you were right. This guy is beautiful and it is forever This can I come does yes, but not yet Still have a purpose here. Oh, this is all intercut with uh them struggling to You know get the code in and stuff. It's a very Uh, well, this is uh, this is just weird. I acting here as well. Yeah, this is incredible chris pratt acting Um, and one thing that I think is I was really I you know, I was really with uh, raccoon I was really thought he was great character. Uh, thought he was hoping he'd make it out of this unscathed But when he decided that he didn't want to be resuscitated because of all the raccoon racism in the world It was a little that's no even something they'll get that's not out yet Oh god That's a that's a reference to the future everyone Okay, all right What I would say is that um I'm not sure. I think I think I for uh in the scene Like in the scene where he's there with lila that there's a little bit more emphasis placed on the friends that he has who are, you know Still alive And uh, I need to get back to them to know what's happening and make sure they're okay I feel like I'd want a little bit more of that in that scene Just a emphasis like in the sense of oh, you know, your work's not done yet It's like because you got you know, you got new friends that need help Like you can help them, you know, you have the capacity to help them and you should Like just because you know, you know what I mean? Like I I think I would have liked it if there was a little bit more On that do you think that's not the subtext of that you still have a purpose? Uh, well, I mean, I know that's what I'll read I'll just read out what what is said and then you can go from there. So okay She says you still have a purpose. He says a purpose for what they made us for nothing Just stupid experiments to be thrown away. She says there are the hands that made us and then there are the hands that guide those hands He says this story has been yours all along. You just didn't know it um so that that's This is there's actually a bit of a tangent from that point But now that that's on my mind that line this story was yours all along like as a meta line Look, all right. I I like rocket a hell of a lot guardians one and two Peter is the main character of those films I was saying I really enjoy about this movie that it isn't the Peter quill show I do well, that's what I I because I I want focus but but like to say that it was his story all along It's like it wasn't and that's fine. That's okay, but it wasn't like Peter is the main character He's got the most poignant like payoffs in guardians one and two Though though rocket's got some pretty poignant ones in those ones as well Yeah, but like I don't think anybody's under any illusions The opening scene for guardians one is how he gets kidnapped, right? And then the ending scene is him opening the gift from his mum, right? Yep, and then the opening scene for guardians two is the flashback to ego and his mum And that's all about it going on line at all really I I felt like it was more her trying to convince him that like That he's that he had that there's a story for him that he's not just a pointless God, um I feel like you'd say something different than that So I was actually going to make a complaint about how that line doesn't really feel right other than meta Yeah, because because this was your story all along doesn't feel like an apt response to I have no story No, this story was yours all along. It's like, what do you mean? I don't think I have one, right? You know what I mean? Like it's kind of a it feels like it's not quite the the right response The the idea if someone said this is your story. This was your story all along It feels like it has selfish undertones Um, this is your story I don't know if I'd go I don't know if I'd go that much. I say let's that's what I'm saying undertones Um, I think that there is this idea that you can that can be read as like this is your story Um, there is and maybe it's because I'm operating under there's another disney product where Um in the in the final episode episode eight of this show There is a character who does actually have Virtually the only sort of character growth and change that exists but He gives up His ability or his chance to do a heroic thing or to act heroically To someone else so that that person can do it and he says this isn't my story. Essentially. This is your story Um, there's always been your story. Um, and that in in It just uh, it it really doesn't sit well with me Um, I know it's a different thing But that's kind of what I'm it's just it's another disney show and I'm just like This line is I don't god views one opening scene the part where star lord tells rocket not to touch his present And the part where he finally opens it are all tacked on if they are essential That's like the what like the whole they're like foundational. What are you talking about? I You're crazy Can't talk about guardians while we're out of time I have enough time. So um, what he says is like he's he's He's like, I've got no purpose. Why can't I just be with you guys? There's nothing for me to go back to sort of things so the response that this story has been yours all along Uh, it really doesn't line up to me at all I don't see what she's trying to tell him in the context of those two in the life that they shared together in the life He has now in the only thing I could think of if I was to try and defend it is like This was your story. It wasn't like the high evolutionary is like you're not defined by The high evolutionary that's like the best that I could imagine I I think that's kind of what I'm trying to get at is I want to line This different to this uh, that this could mean what he was going for but I don't I don't quite strongly with this so if she did say like You're not defined by what made you or something like that or your purpose isn't drawn from your creator or your Something that relates to his journey. There's a little bit more than your this has been your story all along I really don't get what she's saying and if she was to explain it to me. I probably like oh, why did you say that? Yeah, why didn't you say something? Yeah something along the lines of you know that or like just tell him he already knows Something that the way one of the reasons why I think it's a meta line as well as because of the ending That's that's partially what informs me believing it's a meta line to what happens right at the end Sorry, I know right. Do you go ahead? No, I agree with you I I think what I'm doing in my head But I'm interpreting the line in a way that is more fitting is just like Writing a line that I would prefer instead. So I think you're right. No, I mean, yeah, it's kind of a it's it's At best it's monkey. So I guess there's an element of uh, so Does any of this get changed or do new interpretations get added to the pool of possibilities with a context of this is Essentially his subconscious talking to himself. I was operating on that assumption the whole time No, yeah, I don't believe he's got a connection to heaven and he's speaking to it directly Uh, I I guess the problem. I don't know how it works in the marvel universe because you've got the answer I guess you're right. There's like fucking Whatever moon night went to kind of like the afterlife as well in his show Um, there's like there's there's a few different configurate and of course valhalla. That's a place too There's like second after like cyborg author isn't valhalla with That's what I mean. I don't know like I might actually be like Yeah, like I think like souls or exist in the marvel universe. Yes Does it go someplace or is it like the flame when a candle goes out like what what happens? I will say whether like if they actually came out and confirmed This was a brief connection to heaven where he spoke to her directly. I would I think I've still the same commentary both ways Yeah, essentially it can it can work both ways and sort of there's obviously ambiguity there on purpose Didn't die in battle. She totally did just didn't know it was happening Uh dying and during an escape is like uh, it's like dying in battle kind of they were in a fight for their lives Um, but yeah, you uh, you know What what starts to happen is that he's uh, he's actually reached the end of his ability to stay alive before the pass code thing Has been uploaded so he's gonna have to die and uh Gamorosa saying he's gone gone and then stahl was like I am not letting him go and starts doing CPR now This to me uh felt just like they've done this payoff in movies like 10 cotrillion times and um There are times where I think it can work better than others. Um As much as I 100% appreciate the acting here This one just doesn't line up to me the idea that The fucking high tech machines are telling you that he's done so but you applying Bouts of pressure to his heart to restart it Is what's gonna get him going like don't you have? I don't know mechanical shit for that Wait, so question. Is it made clear? I know this all happens rather quickly and they're cutting back and forth But is it made clear but him doing the chest compressions is actually what brings him back I figured it was what else would it be what else could it be? Well, the other thing would be unless it is just rockets will to live maybe I don't know. Yeah, that's sort of the other Side of it because she says but not yet right and so I mean if we assume this is all his subconscious that's Him I suppose the problem the difficulty there is that you they have a hard and fast mechanical rule with the uh the The kill switch and the code That it's like is it's like his willpower enough to overpower something that has been throughout this whole film Just like this hard fundamental like mechanic that works in this very specific way Yeah, I don't know I don't know either Thematically it works. I don't know about mechanically Anyway, he lives Yay I quite like the little hug nice. Yeah It's good. Yep. It's really nice That I will say I think uh by this point. I was because while the scene was playing out I was wondering if they were actually potentially going to kill rocket as I like it I think at this point. I was like look, all right. You you did you did the thing with uh with um Drax, all right, but what if what if you were really subversive that the whole quest was about trying to save rocket and then you failed Like wouldn't that be crazy Well, it's a thanks point. Um, they even I mean I'm trying not to be a downer here But like they kind of did it again. They said he was dead and then it's like no, he's not He's alive Which um, well the thing is that they hadn't tried to do it which racks earlier um I think that they would have had more of an ability to do it this time, you know Like another sort of fake out um But yeah, I get what you mean I don't know if this is a really comparable fake out. It's not as bad as the drax one, but it's it's still one's way better This is one that they do in films a lot a lot of stories. Yeah, yeah No, you have to I'm self park parroted it, right? You have to live. Yeah Yeah Kyle, you know, you gotta No, come on Kyle Specifically doing resuscitation like again, you know, like the compressions and you often get them doing like They'll do the compare, but they're like insane like fucking They start punching, you know, yeah Well, I mean Yeah, well Really hard chest compression. That's true real tpr is kind of hard to watch But like they say they say if you break a rib if you bust a sternum, man, it's better than being dead. Yep Um So something happens and uh, I feel this just sneaks in there and it I don't know if you guys get a sort of this battle dot but we'll see So, uh, you have rocket saying where's nebula? and of course He's saying it because he can see that she's trying to contact them He sees it on like a little notification thing. So he's like he's basically just saying where is she that she's contacting us? Why isn't she here? Quill interprets him as just asking where she is in general And because of everything that's happened quill says she's uh He's preparing to say she's dead I can't fucking believe That you're telling me the peter quill has come to terms with the fact that nebula drax and mantis are all fucking dead Yeah, that's on that's on the real. Yeah, that's just something that happened like They tried to skip past it because they go like oh, they're fine. It's like oh great. But it's like you thought they were dead You actually thought that really You took that pretty fucking well like yeah, you did you didn't take that pretty well Wow, you were more. Uh, yeah, wow Did not like that did not appreciate that quill. What are you doing, buddy? The reason why was because jam's gun knew that they were all fine So, you know, why would you why would you have him, you know freak it out or anything? They're fine and he has to like Activate something to let nebula contact him which makes no fucking sense at all. Why isn't she just on the calm Be an open line. Yeah, they always have that just on Yeah, and it's funny because I would fix the fucking problem You just have it say quill i'm fine get out of there Yeah, I just don't get it. Why do you create this like the amount of times this film has shot itself in the foot? Yeah Easily avoidable Yeah Um, uh, and then this this where I mean it's just fucking yanking me in every direction And then they do a thing where they're all talking on the thing and then Then rocket says the important thing is that we're all okay And that's the first thing they've heard from him since he's back up and like they all like pause Uh, obviously mantis Nebula and brax and I was just like, uh, that's that's nailed. That's uh, that's a good. Yeah, that's a good moment So anyway, they got captured Wait before we before we continue because the the more I think about it Is part of the problem with this movie More so the the jarring shift like less so the jarring shift in tones and rather than the jarring shift in quality Is that more? Um, if I'm going to be completely honest with you, I feel like this jarring shift We're talking about is like two two two three two two two two two nine two three two three two nine two three three three three two two Well, that's what I'm talking about. Right. Like that overall doesn't make me say like, oh, we got a bit of a back and forth I'm like, no this is a disaster Okay, you know what I'm saying. I'm talking about like, you know, the rocket Sorry, like the rocket stuff his backstory, you know That's a decent bit of the film and we've most for the most part said it's really good I don't know how much I was it when you say decent bit of the film. What percent are you thinking about? It's I don't actually I don't know the number. I only saw it once I I'm not I'm not trying to corner you what I'm trying to say is that it's small okay Do you understand what I'm actually asking cuz it's cuz I'm well aware that quite a bit of it is piss I'm asking if you think the the problem is less So a shift in tone than a shift in quality between some of the highs and the lows I Think a lot of the shift in tones might be almost like a result of the some of the decisions They make plot-wise it's kind of difficult Yeah, that's what I'm saying because you know like our discussion on The mantis thing that fucking annihilated a lot of people were laughing at that and that makes me think do I categorize that then Is also like a tonal fuck up like because it's supposed I was treating it as a really sad and meaningful scene And I'm supposed to be laughing apparently. I don't even know yet I still think I'd love to know what James gun thinks I should be feeling at that point Cuz I wouldn't describe that as a failure of the tone. I'd describe that as a failure I never would have known I never would have known that was supposed to be funny unless I Saw the scene with people laughing at it You real no, that was obviously I never know genuinely. I never would have known it was supposed to be funny I'm either okay cuz like I definitely Thought that I would be in the Marvel like in the Marvel humor world. I read that as a joke I just think it sucks and then it's terrible in terms of character I thought that what we're going for is it's better for Drax not to know cuz you'll be a happier man for it and isn't that yeah, like a I read it as a joke is because of him going like you doing is typical Drax like laugh You know I saw that as them being like look there's the Drax, you know, and how do we get there? We erased the the pressures the harshest stuff and it's like it's not like it's like a sad reality of a happier scenario Which I fucking hate and and that's the thing right because if that were seeing if that was an act one a Nebula was like shocked as fucked in the scene and then you know, we have her tell basically we just develop it and I Need to skip to the end of this what I'm trying to say is that it's an arc for Mantis to realize what she's doing is fucking horrible Yeah, you know we've done it that way that have been something but the problem is if the film doesn't even seem to recognize How bad it is you can't do that. Yeah, so yeah To come back to your question and caveat you just like trying to figure out if my Tonal complaints are more so informed by just dips and rises in quality Yes, that's the question because James Gunn Doing certain things in an incompetent way of giving me feelings of like Yuri what I should be experiencing comedy and that can register then as a tonal complaint instead of a writing quality complaint Is that what we are? That's what I'm asking you Because I guess what I'm circling back to is that There are there are some really high highs. They're few and far between the more we go through it for sure But I think the jarring shift because like because what we just demonstrated is that we go from oh This is actually a really good scene and this is actually one of the worst scenes I've ever seen You know and that whiplash. I feel like it's much more of a Because I I don't buy the tonal complaints being the central issue is I guess what I'm saying I don't think I would label that as a central issue If I did I've changed my mind The central issue is bad writing Well, yeah, I was I was gonna say that maybe I should be more specific than that like is it character as it plots It will does it tone is it blah blah blah blah? It's like For me like will building errors I can wash away if the characters are amazing if the characters are fucked So I was like so I may as well just skip to the end and say yeah character issues my main problem with this film Yeah, and that's one of the things that I've come around to most so far. We're not done but being more of a problem than I was initially convinced of after watching it the first time I think because go ahead Figuring out the consequences of these like plot issues on character is kind of tricky or at least it can be tricky It kind of it's like it's almost like you got to try and run through it all like in order to sort of see how they like stack up Gotta think about it because of the way the movie is paced and how it does sort of try to do really Dark things and then really funny things. It's it's hard to What I'm saying is the film is pretty successful at fooling people myself and I Think that I think that people remember the big emotional payoffs like those scenes Yes, but the work that goes into doing it is like that's I think that that's more easily Lost both in terms of when it's really good and when it's bad That because you always remember the big important payoffs But like the groundwork how you got there was so important Indeed. Well then Let us continue. We're at the third act now, right? Yeah So like I said, he captures Nebula, Drax and Mantis and he contacts Quill say Says something I can't remember but Important thing is well does say in response to him you six son of a bitch you killed all those people It's like thank you. Yep So it's that's it. That's it now, but that's still Yeah, that's the end of the acknowledgment of something something And then he says the you know Nebula Drax Mantis, they're all gonna die unless you bring me what is mine being rocket So that's gonna set us up the mistakes. I guess Let me cut over to cragglin because quills contacted him for help and The scene ends with another You know the bad dog joke You guys find that one to be fun I think that one also kind of I don't know that that ran for a while Um, I didn't mind it. I like that. I didn't mind it. Yeah Didn't mind it. I thought it was I thought it was fine Didn't mind it. It was all right. I guess it's appropriate for like a dog to want that, you know recognition from him, but uh, I Was really yeah, yeah, it's all right. It's fine. I was just like Sort of it was just happening Yeah, can't complain. I guess it could have been better, I suppose So with good ol high revolutionary, he's talking about how his his new batch Will have incredible abilities, but they're all They're not like authentic They have rote memorization and in hundreds of years of our creations only one has known true invention Putrid in every other way, but he had that Talking about rocket Does he needs that trait transferred to the new specimens before they move to the new colony the goal? I suppose next attempt And then we cut over to good ol nebula Bracks and mantis who have been put in a cell together Next to the cells with all of these new specimens Really strange place to store those guys Um, yes, don't know why in any case I wouldn't be realized what's around this cage. Yeah So then nebula says you we need you to tell all the other children to stay away from the starboard walls now Which is just so fucking absurd drinkers complaint for this movie was the nebula is too angry I disagree to them. I thought that she's very reasonably angry in a lot of scenes But this one I didn't know what the fuck was going on. Why is she shouting at children? What's what's the goal? You might be like well, maybe nebula doesn't understand how to get children to do what you want. It's going don't buy it. I Just I just think this is over the top and it's to set up Drax. That's clearly what's happening It's like look how ineffective she is with children. If only someone here were good with children Drax. You're a father You were a father, and that's okay Remembering that except that they make the contrast to over the top, you know nebula nebula Nebula Nebula she is awful with kids. Not just not good. You know what I mean? It's It's like you can totally have it be like really cold and it'll still work. Mm-hmm. You don't have to make a shout at them Okay Um, and it's annoying because I kind of like how Drax talks to him. It's fun I think he's yeah, I I like this moment He makes monkey noises I like his ability to you know be able to get along with kids And his enjoyment in that role, you know being paternal, you know that kind of sense. I really I do like that How many is fucking all over the place because for me when he said uh I had a little girl like you and she liked when I make monkey noises and he starts making like robot noises Or beep beep boop boop stuff And so I was already I was kind of enjoying it So I was like that could be because monkeys in his will to make that noise It could be that he has no idea what a monkey actually is that he's just you know Could be any kinds of reason I'm like of this But then it cuts to like mantis and she's like, how is that a monkey? Then it cuts to good morning. She's like beats me I was like, how about how about you guys be quiet? Be doing his little monkey robot dance, especially after you stole his memories. All right Like yeah, you can let him do this and have this moment. All right But I also like Think it's just it feels like an insecurity again It's like, isn't it funny that he's making noises that aren't that of a monkey? It's like, I got that I get it The most you ever need is those two to look at each other and be like, yeah, I will get it. I get it You know, I most people know what a monkey like what monkeys have like and then it doesn't sound like a robot Okay, most people most people know that Unless it's a robotic monkey, I guess So, um You know how they just decided they just fucking arrive at the orgo scope They just arrive at his ship. They're just there. They're like, hey Um, yeah, yo, you hope they don't have any things that can like disable the ship capture the ship surround the ship Wait, we we skip over the fact that he can speak their language I know we talked about that earlier because that was in that scene, right? Oh, well, yeah Oh, well, I mean, yeah, I guess it just bears repeating he can speak whatever language they can speak even though That meant to be like a new civilization, right new species Yeah, I don't I don't get it It's even weirder because it's signposted by mantis in that scene that the translator doesn't work for their language Yeah, and yeah, he knows what it is even though it's presumably never existed before I Are they trying to imply you learned the language real quick? Why why does rocket speak english, but they don't or the uh the the people on uh counter earth Yes I got nothing for that one I don't know I think it was just so that we could hold off on this payout or hold off on this payout for a little bit longer And then it can happen I think that's it Um And then that doesn't feel necessary because I feel like you could like if they spoke english nebula could still try to convince them Of something but they're scared of her. Yeah, and then drax can still exactly It's not just because he speaks a language. It's because he actually knows what to say Which I think would make it a little bit more meaningful instead of just his noises are better It's like in uh aliens when they first find new it is like listen little girl. You gotta tell us exactly what happened Um So, uh, they arrive in high evolutionaries like haha, I'm probably gonna win and then suddenly The big skull of nowhere is appearing from a jump point and it's like crashing through multiple jump points It's so big kind of fit through one normally. I thought that was a fun visual I guess that's a fun visual. It's just that big You know, it just goes through the jump point and kind of it's just and I guess they're like Right between two jump points because like they came out of one as well I'm willing to believe there must be jump points fucking everywhere. I'm guessing I'm not sure how they work exactly all over the place. I just prefer them to Hide it like light speed that never say that Just do the jump. Uh, oh Like even though captain marvel had the jump points. Anyway, yep. She had them Because just used they were in it. That's what rodent used to get there But then they go at light speed, which is much slower Uh those jump points Um So, yeah, uh, something I realized at this point. I probably should mention earlier The mora's told nobody that adam warlock is in the ship Remember him why everyone? Yeah, remember him. Why he's in this movie Oh, that guy who tried to kill like The reason that put rocket into this situation That's no he's just in the ship. Correct me if i'm wrong She knows nothing about adam warlock other than he burst into the place He like got in the way of her fight with war pig and killed it And then was looking for rocket ran out and then ran back in That's her context for him in total Right, I think unless they don't think that's what she knows. Maybe they did In that case Why did she like Do you understand how much this is this is this so much information that's not properly understood as to who knows what She puts him downstairs and covers him in like stuff to keep him imprisoned basically Though she knows that he's hostile, but she also doesn't tell anyone about it But she keeps him alive and in the ship Yeah, that's what the fuck is going on Why is it's not important? You should be rushing to tell everyone. Oh shit. Oh shit. Oh shit that guy He's here gold man's here Genuinely feels like james gum was like well, we got to get him into the final act as well So what if we have it the like he's he's incapacitated but on the ship So camora takes pity and so she puts him in there, but she'll she'll wrap him up real good So that it's like an attempt to stop him from like trying to kill him when they wake up It's like but james if she knows that then she's gonna have to ward the fucking shipmates I'm surprised that they didn't just notice a lot of time to do Yeah, with that whether you could be yelling or something or is that critter? Oh, it's by I feel like if they walked through the rooms and there's a fucking adam warlock is here and she's like, yeah, I um, yeah There he is. What would they do if they'd known they probably throw him out in space, right? He'd pray like what the hell's going on? Well, they get nebula to chop into his head this time Tell my interest to fuck around with him. I don't know Yeah, so um, but the only purpose for that is to bring him into the third act. So that is the fucking Yeah, for all of us amazing payoffs. We need to have him here Uh logistics are hard when writing a story sometimes Sometimes you just gotta fuck it and just do whatever you want. Yeah, they're here now Or if you're james kind of just the whole time Just gotta fuck it and do it everyone So um high evolutionary panics and he sends out Like a thousand of say they were called hell or something Hellspawn, is that what they call them? Something like that Sends them out into the the ships from rocket Star Lord and Groot and nowhere I thought it was really fucking interesting that they actively are trying to kill rocket Uh to the point where they smash through the I was about to say wind screen blast shield Whatever it is the front of what it's called on a spaceship, I guess The space screen they smash right through it and almost kill him They punch him right in the face be just avoids it first of all like no decompression that doesn't eventually happen, but um Just just so odd that they've not been given the command to not kill the fucking raccoon. Isn't that like the whole goal? Yeah I think so That is the whole goal. He wants to get rockets are constantly clear This has been the whole goal for like 14 years or god even knows how long Um Oh, uh, he then says how old it's rocket. Sorry. I'm just curious clue. We know that I don't know like like when the backstory stuff happened I'm sorry as I understand that regular all raccoons don't live very long Um, so we have to presume he is not Yeah, that's what I mean. We have to presume he's not a regular raccoon in which case we have no real point of reference Yeah, and we have we have reason to believe that his lifespan would be geared to be whatever Um, the high evolutionary would want it to be in a perfect world Um, even if I which potentially means Eternal life. I don't know Um, yeah, no clue. I've got I've got no clue He could he could live for another 50 years and I would be like, well, I Genetics, you know this experiment to express purpose of you know being perfect and that guy's eyes The longer ago this happened The more stupid it makes the high evolutionary that he still hasn't looked for found rocket. He's famous He's a famous right. You can hire him. You can be like, hey, I got a job for you right in this little room He comes in and you go ha ha gotcha put on a fake mustache and glasses and you're like, ah gotcha Had a thought there. Um, I don't think it's been really acknowledged very well at all The like rocket was alone with none of the guardians for a long time You mean like a whole life before guardians won. Oh, right. Yeah, uh, no, I mean, uh end game that five year period Yeah Rocket was and nebula, both of them had a long time without the guardians, you know That was actually something I was thinking about that made me like the fact that he said where's nebula when he woke up Because my impression was the first person he'd think. Yeah, then he had a really tight connection with it But no, it's just because he saw a fucking name on the wall. Yeah Yep, but we yeah Well, I wonder if the high evolutionaries plans got disrupted by half of the exit I wonder if any of the people in the stories post end game were affected by Because what what would have happened if I don't know like adam warlock or uh, uh, the other lady You know in the sovereign if they had any impact because of the snap of that like changed anything in terms of their lives Um, or you know the the ravages what how were they impacted by the snap? How do the ravages feel about the fact that gamora dude gamora has a bad reputation in the first guardians remember As soon as she gets in prison everybody wants to kill her are the ravages all chill though Do they know what happened on earth or what like her involvement was would that even matter to them? This fucking series. There's what I mean I feel like I remember more about the history of this universe. I don't like anymore I was gonna say not even james gunn can keep this jenga tower like straight anymore. It's all crumbling He can't even take like the continuity of one two three let alone the whole mcu Yep, I mean, how do you even do it? Like you need that's that's such a it's hard But there are writers that have done it and i'm sorry. They're better writers. Okay You don't have to be sorry. It's okay So next a really dumb thing happens The high evolutionary says open the pit Now he's referring to the room that drax mantis and nebula are in He's gonna open up the door that separates them from the pit below them And you might be thinking like Aren't they his bargaining chips and that's exactly what his subordinate says our bargaining power will be gone That's not addressed. He just opens it anyway literally no response. That's it Well, no, we need the big action It's actually infuriating to me. That's his greatest bargaining chip. All he has to do is say star lord Since you're not listening to me and you're not handing over rocket. Look at your friend here. It's called it's called mantis and gunshot Well Not anymore Now if you don't do exactly as I say drax will be killed next Pretty simple Hey capturing haven't people be captured. It's a really big deal I know it's treated extremely flippantly by shows and everything but having someone captured and essentially you are At the mercy of someone else and they could use you for negotiations. That's uh, that's really It should be very very impactful on the story I actually don't understand it at all and I think it's actually just incredible laziness on the part of james gun Again, he needs them to meet up with the guardians at some point. How do they do it? Well, they can break through a wall with giant monsters and it's like where would they get what and it's like the monsters They're gonna eat them. They'll make them their friends or whatever Well, I don't even This goes well beyond working backwards. Like I don't even know what you're saying Why would he drop them into the pit and not tell anyone? He's literally just executing them, but in a really inefficient way Yeah, yeah, like there's a cage that's next to the kids and then the cage lifts up and there's the monsters We'll see like what's going on here. No weird and does does he just not know that mantis can basically have mind control powers Does he just not know this? I don't think he does Because I feel like it should have come up after the orgo scope sequence Does I mean mantis could have touched one of the kids and told them to do to keep away from From the to do stuff Yeah, she could have done that. Uh, that's funny All right, well fair enough I'm annoyed So, um, yeah, that that happens and it's just Whatever so that they land in the in the pit and this one of those creatures from the beginning of Guardians of the Galaxy 2 But there's three of them Oh, which is really bad more this time and that's scary. Yeah, three is more than one. So yeah JJ Abrams, but I uh, so something happens here Um, I clocked it and a friend of mine has also seen this. This is the first thing you wanted to mention to me so they Fire at nebula. She's like, oh and they fire their rainbow vomit out of here We saw that in Guardians 2 Then the next shot is an image on a hologram of the spaceship that belongs to The high evolutionary and it is exploding in several portions of it And then it shows the subordinate say my god Or good god or something and then it cuts back to drax nebula and Uh mantis running around away from those creatures While there's explosions fire and now a big hole in the ship so From that I can only conclude That the creatures in the pit just blew several holes open in the ship Oh I uh I I guess I I don't know because it seems like what else would have He's seriously just fucking ripped apart his own ship from inside by trying to feed his only bargaining chips to three giant space aliens That he keeps there for some reason Who have the ability to destroy the ship? It is one of the most like I actively pushed that away from my brain. I was like there's no way that's what just happened That's not what just happened. But once the friend asked me is that what happened or was the editing fucked? I was like, oh, shit, and I checked it. I was like Oh, shit. That's what happened That's um, well, that's dire very very very bad Oh, shit um Real fucking weird it happens quick and uh, I think it's supposed to be the reason the subordinate betrays him What because he destroyed his own ship? I mean, yeah Why why would he do any of these things? They're also stupid. Why? It's so unfair because he's such a good actor and it's such a good motive. Why did you ruin it making him super retarded Yeah, that's his real superpower Um, yeah, and then we see uh, it's not just rockets. It's um, it's also star lord and gamora's ship They're flying adam warlock flies in through the front of it and there's no decompression again I don't really understand what's happening anymore. I feel like they've given up on the concept of decompression You guys noticed about that because I uh, I was looking out for a little like, um You know like an energy field that it can be like see that's there, but I couldn't see anything People reaching in from why can the why can the hellspawn survive space? um, I don't know I just I guess I just chalk that up to their cyborgs or something cybernetic space critters That don't need to breathe Yeah, like I I'm I guess I'm fine with it I mean they're did they they clearly like fly out of the ship and attack another ship in a massive I think they're designed for it. Like if they were strictly robots, I'd be totally fine with it But the fact that they speak flash breathe Makes me think, you know wait a minute um, and the fact that they'd be they'd be Uh temperature would fuck them up, you know high and low so Yeah, just I don't know Back you they they can look right shut up. All right. It's fine. It really isn't that high on the list. It's okay Move the hammer off um So then rockets covered in them and it's a moment of like shit Is this it you're gonna die and then they play the guardians theme as he fucking rams his ship into the big ship To drag all of them off And also Help me out here. I was very it looked like they shattered the glass and parts. That's where I've been saying this all time. Hello Sorry, I'm tired as well. All right. What I said, there's no decompression. That's why I'm getting angry at like keep smashing everything But there's no decompression All right, everybody has a bite in the moment. Everything's okay Okay, well, I agree. I I was annoyed. I don't like it when a ship's fucking hull is breached There's just no recognition of that. It's like hello, come on Yeah, like that's just ridiculous No, I don't tell and yeah I don't like as well that he's surrounded by these things and he manages to get them all off by dragging his ship But different parts of the big ship and that they're like I was just like no, I don't buy this is a good move Did they use the theme any uh any other time in this film? I'm gonna be honest with you They didn't want to quite fully remember other than like I remember Which is the big scene where they bring him back to life. They play that theme. Yeah. Oh And it's very emotional. It's very effective. I like it. Was it like a different version of it? Was it like the same melody? But yeah, that's it. It's right. It's the same melody different orchestration Because I can't I can't think of any instance where it was like the big You know a guardian steam like when they use a power stone or something which I like that theme So I like to hit more of it Uh maybe towards the very end, but I don't remember maybe Uh Again because everything's just fucked right now Adam did crash into this ship and then like five minutes later in the timeline We cut back to them Star Lord is pressing a bunch of shit to activate self-destruct and then he looks back and Adam's just standing in the back of the ship going Ah Fuck is going on He wants to kill them No notice that we haven't like done anything with Adam yet Like that obvious Something with him it just hasn't I think it needs to be bearded in mind because this is where I don't know what cap's gonna have to say About this one right because it's a bit strange, but his mum's died. He's still furious He's got to save his civilization by getting rocket. He's clearly there to collect him He's burst in he's screaming and then she says come a step closer and this weird thing gets it and then he goes Now let's not be rash it like I was just like what the fuck um, I got the impression distinctly that he was he was going hyper rage mode But it's like no, he's still kind of No, not Hyper rage mode and that would be channeled towards of course the high evolution Like I said that that would have been what I wanted, but he was still going after the guardians We all fucking thought what happened his mom gets killed by the high evolutionary Exploderating the planet and then he gets with the guardians and he working Alongside or parallel with them to kill the high evolutionary and he's part of the thing that they need and Now with his mom gone, he needs emotional support or something because he's mentally, you know pretty young and I mean, jeez what a fucking drax ended up being like a father figure to him That's something that would have been interesting. I don't think cool But fuck me. I only thought that right now off the top of my head I didn't have like a script and gajillions of dollars, but Like it it just baffles my mind how that It's obvious what they were going to do with him, right? Like we all know it I know what you knew it. We all know it and then they just didn't do it. They didn't do really anything That not only did they not do something. I felt like they didn't finish not doing anything So Mantis using her mantis powers convinces all three of the enormous monsters to work with them Yeah They could have just been eaten But that happens they only want to eat batteries. All right Yeah, that shit's just a fucking retcon as far as i'm concerned They just growled together. I mean he jumped into their mouth, but like he he didn't spit him out like ew, you don't have Battery normally that but like what the high evolutionary is just keeping battery eating monsters to feed people too I eat batteries You're telling me that he usually feeds people down there And what they do is like they fall and then they go Run around until they get eaten and instead of if they just coward they'd be fine Like if they just went i'm chill They don't want to be eaten. They'd be fine. They just went left play dead Or is that all they do is they exhaust them by making them run around so much? It's the kind of right at this point where as I said before If stahler put a gun to his head and fired and the bullet went right through and you saw everything blood splattered He'd be like no no no no No And then the scene just continues and he's fine And it's like we've given up there's just never any attempt to make anything make any sense anymore Nothing works the way you expect it to everyone's going to be fucking fine. Let's just keep going That's that's like the only vibe I was getting at this point. There's no consequence for anything Yeah Um, so then we see craglin is uh dealing with nowhere getting like almost annihilated by all of these uh spooky monsters and um He has a You know, which one i'm referring to is I don't want to summarize it in comment Yeah, so um I think when moller asked me the aforementioned Um question about what's your favorite moment or what's like a moment that strikes you as being your favorite not counting the flashback scenes I think I said that the one that comes to my mind first Is the craglin payoff with the arrow? Um and seeing uh in seeing yandu there I really really really liked it Um And I'm very happy that craglin got this heroic kill the monsters payoff and was using the arrow really efficiently like yandu's doing I think that means a lot to him as a character what very little we get of him Uh, it's first of all, it's really nice to see yandu again even in that capacity in his voice Because I really really like yandu And uh, it was it was good that he got that heroic payoff moment. I was I really really liked it Um and even the yeah, but effective Yes, I knew exactly there was I didn't expect to see yandu I I didn't I expect to see him there Um, but I really liked seeing him and there was this like I knew In the same thing with uh, like uh, uh, that is her name, right? Who now? Uh, the dog. Oh, I don't know the dog's name Um, I think Yeah, the actual dog was like, uh So I guess that's why I was thinking about it. But um, yeah cosmo so the the payoff with him um, and Cosmo coming in to help him with at the last moment and the good dog thing Saw it come in 20,000 miles away and extremely satisfied when it happened Yeah, it's still effective. I mean like if you if like if I can tell it's coming and it's really good when it gets here Like so it's fucking Christmas. Like, you know, like I don't you know, it's it's okay. That's fine so Yeah, I um, I think it's a nice bit of oxygen for a moment. It is. Yes. That's exactly what it is It's oxygen in this movie because I'm running out of it Uh And that's that back to the other scenes now rags. I'm sorry. All right. Okay. Well, you know what? We had our we had our little oasis moment We saw yandu and we saw Cragglin and he was kicking ass and we saw the dog and the things are great Why we can go True someone in chat said grace Randolph thought the cosmo bad dog joke was sexist because of the dog's relationship with cragglin What do you mean? Relationship is that they're like buddies? No, come on. No How does that even mean? That's just that's just enough to be true. I was about to say that sounds like a grace randolph thing I don't know why though. I but what grace doesn't operate the same plane that we know Is still a woman who's seeking the validation from a male character and I didn't really like that True, right I can't explain grace, but I would never lie here I Believe Austin Yeah, I actually did it so absurd, but like after watching what she said in the Mario review Anything I believe The suicide squad review anything's possible, isn't it 100 fucking percent? I believe if you said it about anyone else, you know but I mean Oh So we cut to the good old command center for bad guys and his is subordinates like sire We must retreat the ship is going down This one really funny happens The primary like controller person. I think she's like a rat person He says the spaceport has intruders And it just cuts the high evolutionary he goes see if one of them is p13 Like The ship is on fire There's armies of people destroying you Everybody's telling you the ship's about to explode that we need to get out of here They're like the spaceport has intruders and he says see if one of them is rocket like Sure, why not? I'm Yeah, we'll get to a little bit of relief from that point that you're mentioning that I was happy to see but um That's something that I wish we saw more in medio much more But yeah, there this is the point where I'm like, oh, you're you're like getting really you're like turning into a different He's like insane. Yeah. Yeah, he's like kind of insane. Um Well, so yeah And she says you must stop for god's sake and he says there is no god That's why I stepped in Uh, it's so cringe Yeah, I'm trying to think of how I tweak that you almost want to have him getting enraged at the mention of a god But you don't want to make it that obvious do you? He might have like mentioned it before in a sense of like there isn't destiny. There isn't fate. There isn't You know, there's no gods or there's no anything like that Which doesn't work in this universe, but maybe he means gone to different contexts or something. I don't talk about no Um Then some really stupid evidence Yeah, it's just it's really cringe. They all pull guns on him when he has the control of gravity It's like if you're gonna kill him if you're gonna betray him you kill him You don't actually do the whole try to why are you trying to keep him like hostage? Are you trying to tell him to put his arms down? What are you trying to do? Like I I really like that they do this and I hate how they do it Exactly. It's um, they all the cameras panning around. They're all slowly lifting up their guns. It's called Like they're all charging up ready to shoot. It's like you guys forget his powers. He's just gonna slam you all into the ground Um, but he does something else He he annihilates the whole bridge. He uses his uses his ultimate move It's charged up now and he uses it to destroy his own bridge Including all of his own workers Yeah, all the workers who are gonna betray him, but most importantly the cyborg like pilot of the ship who opens the doors and things It's um Once he's killed them all and destroyed his own command center because the high evolutionaries are fucking genius He says to his like remaining crew get me p3 and kill the rest And I was just like can you finally do it yourself? You're like the best one for this and you keep sending thousands of people to die They just had to set him up to where he's not Powerful he just has a bunch of people who does what he tells them to do And he has a lot of money and resources at his disposal But he's not like a super powered villain himself if he went down to the dock He would slam them all into the ground pop the heads of all the ones that he doesn't care about grab rocket and be done But he never does it Um So anyway next scene is the big creatures smashed through a wall and the whole guardians team team up But then those creatures disappear for a little bit. It's really strange Also, high evolutionary disappears now for a while. He's nowhere to be found in the story. He's just gone Because he's got to get around to places, you know If he was to appear at any point He would destroy the plot line because anyone who fights him would get fucking wrecked if they were fighting him One of you won even to be honest with you all of them once But we'll say maybe it's tough to yeah if he gets the ambush on anybody. He's got him But yeah, because he can stun like him. Yeah Uh, and we've seen him do it with many people at once and he's got an ultimate move where you can just vaporize people also that So Um, something else happens that I don't like the guardians are figuring out what their plan is since they're all together They've rescued them. That's it. We did it And uh, then a lot of them say like, you know, wait, wait, we can't go. We've got to save the children as people here There's still life forms. It's blah blah blah blah blah and then Gamora says if we want to live we have to leave now I was just like, why the fuck did you have it so that everyone says we got to save the people except Gamora? It went Gamora and again from 2014 where she was plucked from was the most motivated to try and save lives So rude what you what you do is you have them all suggest it and then she's like Or something you push forward with it. You don't have her say Nah, it's only innocent children The fuck are we doing, you know, what have children done for me? What are they doing recently? um Yeah, and then rocket says i'm done running and uh Yay But yeah, and they they do their big action scene I was about to say, uh Yeah, this is Yeah, this is the thing. This is the action thing. It's a cool like it's a one take sort of action scene Yeah, it's quite a spectacle. Um, I think it needs to be tightened up here and there Uh, but I really enjoyed watching it. It was nice to see um things flying around people using powers guns swords Get a combo up here and there Yeah, I I really liked watching it. I just it could have been It could have been great if they had changed some things up But I I really enjoyed you know for what it was. I enjoyed it I thought it was neat that they had that one take style to it very much felt like the last guardians scene Like yeah, it felt like in a in a way celebratory of just the the guardians A team doing it one last time, you know, yep and so, uh, then they come up with a plan you have Nebula and rocket go into the command center to see if they can pilot The ship to help them get the people out and then they'll have everyone else work to get the life forms out And they specifically say save all the higher life forms. So we're gonna be getting all the people We're not going to be getting any animals um And then uh as they're getting people out, um adam warlock appears he yells and then he falls over And uh seriously at this point, I was just like what a shame man Why is the why why why is he in this film when you didn't know what to do with him? I don't understand why it was so hard to build him a proper storyline No But I don't know it's like he wasn't interested It's uh such a shame Um, but Groot sees that and what's crazy is if adam had energy and power there. He would have killed groot Luckily for him. He didn't and so Groot grabs him and saves him Uh, what do you guys think of the joke where mantis is opening cages and she discovers the hideous monster thing and screams at him And then he says oh, thank you and then she says, oh, I was screaming at something behind you Um, yeah, you know, maybe he's used to it and he knows it's nothing personal Uh, but he's he's keeping chipper and cheery and he's just happy to be out of a cage. Um Uh, so yeah That's a fucking abomination, isn't it? Yeah, it's it's such a, um, it's like that's the that gives kids nightmares man It's it's you everyone understands the joke perfectly. It's absolutely fucking horrifying and yet. It's like thank you I'd leave so it's just like Uh, I like that joke. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of the perfect amount of just absolutely insane I mean, he's not he doesn't seem like he's in pain and he's walking around That's the thing is as long as he is okay and happy and he's getting out of there. That's okay with me Yeah, if he was like, oh god fucking kill me Yeah, I'm like, oh my jesus christ now. I'm really not oh and I I do like mantis trying to save it Like I wasn't screaming at you screaming thing behind you Why is uh, I mean like why is he just made him forget anyway cap Why is he in the cage with all the like the kids? I wish I could forget. Yeah Um, so then starloads running around and he bumps into three people who work for the high evolutionary And he says kill me if you want but then good luck getting out of here I don't understand that at all. He's so fucking lucky every other person He's bumped into doesn't hesitate to shoot at him, but these three fuckers just don't it's like, okay If they killed him they could still leave Yeah, I don't that made no sense to me even like from the moment he said it I think the purpose of the line is to convince us that all the remaining staff are now working with the guardians to get over all the kids out It's just it's just so fucking lazy and clunky That's not how you accomplish that that line doesn't fit. No, it's not even um So what do we think about the locking the ships together to prevent compression with cosmo Um, don't know about that Um, scientifically speaking if that's even a fucking utterance that I could make with a movie like this, but But also god damn like cosmo must be immensely powerful if uh, she can like move this massive structure and retain it in its place like that I assume we've got nowhere. That's also moving forward Uh and cosmo is just like the uh the the extra ceiling around that hole Yeah, that's how I saw it because it does deform Around the holes right in the ship But she is there to make sure that it like stays together and is kind of tight But so in that case later on when she uh, when she can't do it anymore It does start to drift pretty dramatically I'd have to I because I remember what you're talking about manus has to give her the you know, you can do it. You can do it. Um, yeah So I'd have to look and see again to exactly how it starts to come apart But yeah, based on what I saw there. I'd I'd know for sure or not big thing that really piss me off Is the I kind of enjoy if you make it so that cosmo is real trying her ass off to make this work I'm like, okay, at least I can appreciate that you you're making it seem like it's real fucking tough Why does everybody take a million years to move across the floor? I shall did they literally stop saying one at a time. What are the times like no, you're all sprinting across We are we are jumping This is like 2012 man. We're we need to go Um, do you think do you think it would have been better if craglin was there with her? Well, he had to pilot the uh, oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, I guess I wanted to give him, you know It makes sense captain doing that stuff um But then uh adam warlock wakes up and he says why are you doing this? I tried to kill you and uh Because I am group which is translated into everyone deserves a second chance Uh, I didn't earn that I I mean that what can you say to that? You're just like, okay All right. Yeah, I guess that's I guess that's heroic or something. Um, what's gonna happen with this guy? What's what are we doing? Just it just feels like it's you pulled it from the book of lines. It's like, what can you say? It's like say It's definitely from the book chance. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like here It could work if as rags has suggested over and over and over again that He was actually fighting on their side now, but there's still a moment like where they think about you know what I mean like, um Or like when they agreed to team up or something like that there's a way they could Make that work if he's like fighting on their side now Yeah, and you can and now you have him as a character who can do something if you need something done That requires you know being able to fly fast or blast through a wall or something now now that he's on your side We've got you've got that that you can pull But now he's just sort of around I guess and helping sort of he will I guess so And he's proven that he actually you know can earn a second chance Um any Well, no I'm saying in in the hypothetical. Oh, yeah in the hypothetical. Yeah, not in this one. He hasn't yeah In this one. Yeah, he just sort of like we're trusting you to not destroy everyone. Okay, exactly No one even like suggests that he goes get revenge No, you're right. It's like dropped He's he's a character with like one thing and that thing is dropped. It's like It's the mum. That's like the thing he cares about and then she dies and then you're like, well Okay It feels like there's the different scenes that they filmed There must be there must be something that got lost When they edited it, I don't know So the ship's falling apart like I said cosmos Trying to keep it together all the the people are getting moved across the desperate Everyone's like screaming all this shit I don't think it's appropriate to have rocket scene now Uh, I like the scene quite a bit But it just doesn't line up to me that we're this desperate And he's now gonna have a very slow walk to the cages. Look at them. Look at the raccoons Take care of them. So you get them up then look around see what animals are there and then You do know that was just like this needed to happen before much of a rush Yeah, there needs to be this needs to happen before we've got like everything falling apart. Yeah There's too much of a rush going on plot wise Um as as as good as it is to see that and as as great as it is This is not the time that it needed to happen. This needed to be sooner um Then the high evolutionary attacks here he is he's like, he's really angry. He's like i'm getting Honestly the first thought I had was like, where the fuck have you been man? Been ages everything's been falling apart. Where have you been doing? And I wonder if you like just went to toilet or something because like where else could he be? What could he be doing? He's put on pause. He's not allowed to interact with the plot. He's got to stay away until we're ready for him Um, but they start having their fight. He's he's dragging rocket around hitting him into walls doing all kinds of things And uh, he's has him up at the ceiling and he's shouting all kinds of mean things to him Like you're an abomination. You're nothing more than a step on my path How dare you think you're more than that? And then rocket manages to move his arm just enough to activate his gravity boots Which I think is already too much. He shouldn't be able to move When uh, he's going in the gravity mode And also, of course, yeah, as you said the whole like I he should be really fucked up Right now. Oh, yeah They even have him go in like he throws him onto something electrical and rock. It's like This is like oh that That's another one of those writer can choose whatever that just did. Did that kill him? Did that do nothing? Was it somewhere in between electricity, man? It's really useful to just it could just be pain It could be like you're stunned for a bit. It could kill you. It could just uh Give you memory loss. I don't know. It's it's the it's the grab bag of injuries um so What would what do you think physics wise should happen when you've got a man who can control a person via manipulating gravity And he's got them pressed against the wall and then they activate their own gravity boots Uh, probably um nothing Because I don't think there's enough I don't think the suction power of those gravity boots are enough to overpower the firmness of how The high evolutionaries gravity is holding him in place If anything it might make him slide along the wall or whatever until his feet make contact with The surface that's below him from his perspective I actually it's funny. I kind of agree. I think number one most likely scenario Nothing happens because it's just his gravity control overpowers your booties. I'm sorry. They just do his his power is insane Second most likely one of the super powerful just enough to keep you on the surface because you have to still be able to You know, they give you some essentially they they simulate the effects of gravity on with your feet Second most likely they attach to the ceiling the rockets right next to Right and they awkwardly bend his legs a bit back But they would that I don't know how else, you know, they just attach Okay third most likely That thing you were saying about like the slidey around thing like they've got some influence, but they're not quite connecting to the power Both most likely I suppose they attach to the ground below but that That's probably gonna break his ankles Uh, yeah, maybe it depends on how Yeah, I would imagine if you use them Like it it notice it knows what your orientation is and it try and it tries to contact the most appropriate surface beneath you um Which would like and if he started to slide down as the force of the Yeah, gravity is like that wouldn't be too bad if he started sliding and he made contact or he turns it on Nothing happens in the moment the high evolutionary lets go Of his gravity all of a sudden rocket moves down and that maybe like catches him off guard and gives rocket an opening Yeah, like he's activated them and then he goes to throw him to another place And expects him to have moved and then he's like wait what and then looks back and it's already two lakes rocket's got the shot on him now Like uh, yeah, it's it's a startling little Like not not a teleport but similar in its effects He just starts starts to quickly move in a direction one steady activates him and it clamps down into the floor in front of him and then uh He says because he's he's shitting at him saying is the fucking p1 nine. I forget the the codename Then he lands and says my name is rocket Rocket raccoon Then shoots him I was just thinking myself like man There was a lot of time you spent talking there that he could have done something to you Yeah, sure was with his powers That him saying rocket raccoon is really great It really is though Considering how vehemently he rejects like anybody coligam, you know like a raccoon or any number of things To just fully embrace Uh that as part of his identity is really cool. I really really like it. Yeah Um The guardians appear suddenly and they all beat the fuck out of the high evolutionary doesn't stand a chance I feel like this would have worked better if rocket Had him all to himself I'd be inclined to agree and Like even when you know when the roll attack of I was just like nukem nukem do the nuke Yeah, we need to see like his gauntlet being broken or his little something something You know some element of he can be depowered If something breaks or whatever, but I was expecting for rocket and him to have a mono a mono kind of fight Rocket cleverly engineers something with he uses the intelligence and creativity that the high evolutionary Want so much as a way to defeat the high evolutionary how incredibly poetic is that? Yeah, because uh as far as it went was remember those boots that we set up There you go. You're like, okay Yeah, I don't even think it would work that way, but sure there it goes Would have been yeah, cool because rocket has a very very very very deep personal interest in uh You know fucking this guy up. Uh killing him quite frankly. Uh, and um, so Yeah, I mean, it's fine that all the guardians are there. They're his new family. There is team So, you know the you took one family away from me. This is the new one. They're gonna kick your butt That's something, you know, I will say that I can't Aping the town but I can't envision it like where's rocket and then all of the main characters decide to go and look for him And all end up in that room like The most you'd have is one of them going to look for him And Honestly, I was feeling kind of like before this that rocket would perish in his fight with the high evolutionary um, he would there there'd be some setup where he Saves the day, but like he has to sacrifice himself to do it something I was really expecting for that kind of thing to be set up in this moment Uh, which is like it's finally done happen. That was just what I was thinking would you know would likely be the case um Yeah, uh, he gets he gets beaten the fuck out and gemora rips his face off Don't face mask on after what rocket fucked him up with and it's quite gruesome When they show the face itself. Yeah, it is it is quite gruesome. Yeah And Does it just wanted to make things perfect rocket says you didn't want to make things perfect. You just hated things the way they are um Typically fine as a counter to him, I guess but uh, A little bit confusing for me. I was hoping maybe someone could explain this he says That drags in the background. He's just like kill him Then rocket aims the gun, but then stops. He says why? He says because I am a freaking guardian of the galaxy Dom just fucking kill him. I don't understand at all. I would I would have expected a subversive like You know like oh, is he gonna kill you'll spare him right? It's just like no, of course. I'm not gonna fucking spare Are you serious like? We kill people Like the Deadpool thing where colossus is just like, you know the way the world sees us Why it just shoots the guy in the head Just unceremoniously What are they going for with with i'm a guardian of the galaxy? What does that mean? I think they're talking about the thing that uh, I think captain mentioned earlier Right where it's like that lame thing where you can just kill all the faceless goons But like when the actual villain who orchestrated everything But like what kind of mercy is it the ship is blowing up? Like yeah, you know what I mean? He's dead. I am yeah We assume he lays there with his face off and he gets exploded or whatever The only thing about it that I that I don't mind and there's a way to tweak it for me is that I can understand Rocket having some hesitancy about being the one to kill him himself I can I can understand that to a degree it could have been interesting if he decides not to and he walks away and then Drax kills him or something You know or if he walks away with the recognition that he will die when this thing blows up That possibly as well either one I think I thought was the where the god is the galaxy. We don't execute people with the doubt or something I'd be like what we don't kill. Um, yes, you do kill bad guys. You totally do you do it all the time And this is the most bad of the guys. He's real bad. You don't want to he's only want to risk him escaping Not at all remember the genocide earlier. Yeah That's a big you know that was like that was crazy What he did there and I mean dude, he's finished anyway, you know like what yeah, and I'm not sure I'm not sure. Yeah, what they were going for with that was odd it'd be I wouldn't like it either But it'd be one thing if they took him with him to like bring him to justice whatever that means But they don't even do that Well, no, it's like let's spare him and leave him here to blow up Like it's it's batman begins, you know I don't have to save you I mean, dude You aren't making a choice here, all right little bit Um, and then all the animals are saved because of course they are Well, I mean, yeah, but but hey look, all right, it's uh They all very conveniently stampede in the right direction. Yeah, they're all They all know that they need to run away from the Like exactly what they need to do the reality is that it might have been a tougher I think I was talking to him all about this like the toughest scene of he can't save all of them So he saves the raccoons, you know Like there's just a recognition that you can't save everybody But obviously Because that means he's a racist Well, the the other alternative is if it's just the raccoons all the other animals have escaped and it's just the little raccoons Yeah, they cage all the other cages are like broken or opened or whatever and they didn't quite get out Yeah, it's like the ship is actually falling apart around him and he has to be like pulled away from doing it or Something it'd be pretty useful if maybe they had like an alliance with some ravages. Maybe with some portal technology Yeah It's bad enough without that ravages. Doug's you can be like what can they contact fucking doc strange? They're friends with them now Yeah, give them a call say hey, buddy. You busy with you could really use your incredible amazing technology And in exchange, we'll give you some amazing medical technology They can fix your hands You're a doctor. You'd like that As long as our sorcerer supreme now, so you give him a call say if he's available Yeah, well, I was just gonna say like could you wrap one of those medical kits around dr. Strange's heads? fix them I assume so Dude, could you imagine right They're introducing the idea of the tech to dr. Strange. He's like, oh interesting I actually uh, they know about his wound weapon. They just pop it on go beep. There you go. He's like It's like, hey, it's not great and he's like you don't even Yeah Anyway I'm gonna go be a surgeon So, um Oh, we're at that point damn No, no So, yeah, everyone has made it and everything is fine except quill He said quinn quill drops his zoon As he goes wrong after it Runs back to get it and then he falls through the floor and because of the ship separate and he is now very far away And he's gonna have to jump through the vacuum He has no none of the thousands of pieces of fucking tech throughout this goddab series that would have saved his ass Um, and so he jumps through and gives himself a bit of a boost with a pipe he was holding It's kind of a cool thing that he does In terms of just like, oh, yeah, I guess I and then and then some debris gets in his way And he gets stopped halfway in between it would but it would it with a pipe I don't know if it would work. I just thought it was cool. I don't it's cool, but I don't think it would work that's like if you that's like if you got a like like a sailboat and you put a big fan On the deck and pointed it towards the sail Like that that wouldn't work because if he's if he's attached to the if he's holding on to the pipe then the for then the forward force of the um Of the the the the pipe's expulsion Would then be cancelled out by the energy hitting hit or I don't know. Maybe I'd have to see it again I'll buy it for now. I'll buy it for now, but I have to see it again to make sure He hits pieces of debris and gets stuck and then they show Mantis and Groot like crying and screaming because they know he's gonna die I was just like, you're not fucking serious You're telling me that the reason why peter is gonna die is because he ran back for his zoon when I can imagine him Starting to run obvious payoff is yeah that he thinks about running for it, but then realizes he doesn't need it He lets it go Holy grail sat shit and he lets it go. He doesn't do it anymore the music Yeah, he's already put the Yes And it's the zoon it's not the tapes from his mom Well, the zoon is from uh, it's from yondu. I think so that would be my is it from yondu specifically Yeah, cragglin gave it to him and he said it's got like 300 songs And that was really impressive Like so I understand that as an element, but it seems so obvious at the point is that he's he's past that of like The item itself, right? It's like the music itself and what it represents or his friends That he would run back for the music player and then die in space because of it like what what happened That feels like a total regression you know If it was like we've gone backward especially if the arc of this film is him learning to let go That he nearly dies because he couldn't let go and then has to get bailed out on you know his arc being letting go at all Really, I feel like I think that's what we're meant to believe it is. But it's not like he doesn't just let go of rocket, you know No, I know Or essentially he's learning to let go of things because you know it sometimes, you know what you have You know, it's I mean it's really just a mora. I don't it's not doesn't it's not a big overarching theme for him in my opinion I don't know Oh, well, well, let's put it this way. Even if even if we didn't, you know, think it was a big overarching theme I just don't buy that he would actually die for this this player Like that just doesn't seem like where we're at with him That was like a decision that he made in the first film, right? That was you know, to some extent reckless of you all have to wait while I go get the music player And then the fact that you destroyed it, you know, the original walkman as well Accepting things for how they are is definitely an idea in this film instead of trying to like fix everything. Yeah, I think that uh That that would have worked perfectly with that the reality is the zoom's fucking gone go That's what you have to do because it's perfect in microcosm But there's someone else because we've talked about this a couple times But I actually think it could have been a darker direction Maybe a mistake maybe not to completely redo the script and have it be that that's a lesson in the form of rocket actually dying in the end the uh They all their attempts to prevent the realities from setting in that rocket has died The cause is like immense damage. Maybe an additional character deaths, you know, you could do it that way or you could do other forms of damage um But the it's a harsh lesson to learn that like just because you can't deal with the fact that something horrible has happened It can end up making way worse things happen Like in conjunction or whatever is uh, there's space for all this stuff here, but like I don't know man. Like after I see the film is like they clearly had no fucking attention to kill and rock it all Well, we know no So I mean people maybe it looks like peter. He's he's say is this peter dead? That is like well Obviously, we've been over all the forms of technology that would have been able to save him if he had them Um, I don't know if cragland's arrow would have worked Um, why have you grabbed it? Well, I don't know if we see, you know, like I'm where it happens, you know Like do that. Yeah It's like you got that you've got something I didn't like I was thinking about was yeah Groot's vines should be able to get him and then they show him Trying and for some reason in this moment Groot's only capable of growing them incredibly slowly Uh, you see them No, so he starts it up and they go and boom boom boom boom they pass the threshold boom boom boom boom And then they go frosty and then they break off Remembering godians one where he can like fire them You go like and like straight out if he did that that'd be enough because peter just needs to grab one and pull I was his old body not his new hulking his new slow Well, remember I think you're getting confused remember he this is a different group to the original group as I understand entirely from the yeah, he's a different person He is a different group the group from guardians is dead and this is you know group two I never knew how that only worked no Um, obviously, I just don't know if the if the seed like carried on his consciousness or something I'm not sure so it's just I don't buy any of it and I find it all really annoying and they're baiting fucking peter's death now He's done it enough stop yeah, we're doing more bait deaths and Like what a weird time for this to just sort of happen for bait too Especially when now everybody who we thought was actually gonna die is like safe Like totally so isn't it crazy that on my like the people most likely the dialist He was like rocking and drags for number ones and then peter was actually one of the suggestions I floated that could be possible and edgy all three of them got fucking baited in this and then they were fine Yep Totally fun even nebula got kind of baited Yeah, I know yeah Well and to be fair we haven't mentioned them But there's two times in this film where mantis is dropped into a place and falls on a neck and they make a neck snap sound Yeah It's just supposed to be funny. You're supposed to go When most people when they hear that and somebody landing really awkwardly on their neck, they immediately think oh, shit Yeah, she's dead Because that's what happens when you hear that noise. I know that noise is that's no good It's funny someone's like what it's like it's what I said it is. That's what happens Watch the movie that's what happens Like pratfall sort of thing. Yeah um So anyway, peter's Pretty much about to die. There's no hope for him and then uh, and then adam warlock shows up Wait, did you mention the face bloat? Yeah, yeah, his his face. I assume you want me to mention it because it's a bit of a like What am I supposed to be feeling about this? I'm feeling annoyed that he didn't get a new helmet Well, there's that but I also feel like I don't know enough about the science and I am very tired But if his face is already bloated to that degree, I feel like he's done But I don't I thought being half of like half, uh, well, but that's I don't know that that count He lost that power remember that was like, oh, yeah, that's the thing about it I kind of regret about guardians too is they made it explicit. It's like once you kill me, you don't get any of those powers anymore like, oh But uh, okay Well, and and uh, as for what was said, right? I thought because he gets saved just before he kind of implied it, right? But like, uh, I thought they were going to apply med kits to him like as soon as he got in but they didn't even do that No, he's he's he's chill. He's okay. It's just fine. He just recovers. It's like, okay This is the only reason I couldn't like that try to make adam wallock like relevant to the story Yeah, adam saves him. I have to do in a reference to creation of man the painting, right? Yeah What's up with that? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what that is That's clearly supposed to be funny. But but I'm just sitting like, oh, fucking hell. What's what are we? Dude, hurry up like every second every second counts, man I don't know what this is. It doesn't mean anything in relation to the story Like there's no thematic significance to referencing that really famous iconic image. It's just like, ah, that's a thing Don't you recognize that? Isn't that funny? No, no It's not funny I don't I don't get it Um, his name is adam, but isn't he the wrong one in the image? Little bit. Maybe it's supposed to that's on purpose. You didn't get it You're right that I didn't get it. I didn't get it I thought that'll be in a video essay Oh, god Oh, yeah, I think video essays will uh, they'll be clamoring for this one. I think So They're all fine. They made it and then gamora is says before she leaves that I bet we were fun Says you wouldn't believe it Like you wouldn't believe yeah But she's off with the ravages And well, I mean, you know, it's time to basically that they announced the they've all got they got things They need to talk about Peter says he's been running ever since He'd watched his mum die on earth and he's finally gonna go back Which for some reason means he's leaving the guardians Don't really quite understand that since he can visit earth whenever he wants for us even a week And he'd still be a guardian So I really don't understand what's happening there Mantis says she needs to go because she's always done what ego wanted And now she's been doing anything the guardians wanted and so now it's time to discover something for yourself Which again, I thought she was here because she wanted to be here Same so I I found that one annoying too Hence to me Um nebula and drax want to build a society for the children to live in like okay All right. Well, uh, I guess it's worth mentioning. That's what nebula says initially drax wants to go with mantis Because they have a very because he doesn't know that she's Yeah, and then uh, it's it's nebula that convinced. Well, first of all Mantis is like no, I need to go on my own and nebula's like no drax you can stay here And do you have the exact line? He says you weren't born to be a destroyer. You were born to be a dad so There's a sense in which I kind of like that he's Because he doesn't get revenge, right? I wish the film addressed it, but it didn't So as a consolation prize I mean the revenge was for the loss of his family that he gets something like Adopted children of his own to take care of and the fact that we've seen him be good with kids is something that I kind of like Yeah, this idea that he couldn't save his kids from something evil But he saved the kids from these kids from something evil Um, and he can be the dad to them that he couldn't be to his own daughter. That's yeah, like I like that as a core idea um, uh I don't know. Uh, it's just all the stuff that happens along the way and I feel like the paternal stuff Did that even exist in guardians too? Well, I forget mentioned of course the the loss of his daughter and stuff, but You know, um, we're well We're almost at the point of figuring out what the fuck is going on here because he's like rocket You will be the leader of the guardians and that team is now craglin cosmo adam warlock groot and little girl And that is the fate let's say of of the guardians as it stood they are now separated and It feels so fucking arbitrary Uh, yeah Yeah, it feels like there's a there's a tension between James gun wanting to break them apart and put an end to all of it while the while marvel's like no no no no You can't put a permanent end to it. You need to set up a new team. So there's this weird like split like the dichotomy or like a dissonance between Those two ends that are all combined into this one scene and it's such an arbitrary strange mess I don't know what informed this and i'm not sure that I would even come to the Conclusion that it was like, yeah, it was obviously like studio meddling. I'm not sure I feel like the film is pretty non-committal in terms of like Being a definitive conclusive ending Um for this team. I don't feel like this is a really conclusive ending Everybody is off available to be pulled in for future projects And yeah, no one's dead He's gone. Why is not awesome. Like the reasoning isn't isn't great Um, it feels like it came out of nowhere. I did not I didn't think I didn't think throughout this film Well, I didn't think yeah, I didn't get anything from this film that indicated This is all leading to them splitting up because I don't need each other anymore Finally we're together again like we want it to be Like no, I want to go to the planet. What tell them to come with you I don't like this thing. There's so much about it. Like I would say that the drax one at least it has something It's like, okay, but like would drax actually would he want to not because I know Dave batista doesn't want to do it anymore. That's partially what's informing my perspective on this is not It's like what would drax what is a character? It's like it's bleeding in from him But would drax be okay with like, yeah, I'm just gonna help this society Where it's like does he just want to quit guardians now? But surely That was actually something I was gonna bring up is like nowhere moves they can take home with them That's true. It's a mobile home and we're pretending like it's a pita to go to if it would be some Grand adventure that takes ages. Like you could have pulled over there It's Sabatical from the guardians you don't need Yeah sabatical That's actually a really good way of putting it because if you want to spend a decent amount of time with his grandpa You know live out like like spend his time with his grandpa until he eventually dies or something like that Like you don't have to commit to permanently quitting It's actually bizarre and then the mantis one is the worst of all of them. That's that's her brother And she's like, well, I'm gonna go find my own adventures now. It's like, I'm sorry. What what what? I thought that you really valued this like you feel manipulated to like doing other people's bidding, huh? I guess I just find it strange that that's uh Like I'm gonna go off and do my own thing Because like this isn't enough I I would I think that's better than what she says She says I did whatever ego wanted and then I did whatever the guardians want. It's like, no, fuck you. You're here. Why are you ruining the character? You're here, but this is the right thing to do Well, it's pretty funny right? I did whatever the guardians wanted wasn't it her idea to go to earth to get kevin bacon to set up the whole Party for christmas. That was her idea. She's fucking she gets to do what she wants. She's funding people's memories She gets to make decisions Yeah, how can you forget the fact that she controls all the people And deletes their memories I have to go down my own planet needs me God it's such a it's like the scene comes out of nowhere to say like by the way, this is it for guardians You're like, oh, yeah, shit. I forgot this is the end of the guardians This is meant to be the end But not really because everybody is Even even the actors who have said that they don't want to do anymore. It's like well, you're not dead. You could always come back You know, yeah, everybody everybody is it's conveniently placed to do like I It just seems so arbitrary And I did not get the sense of all throughout the film that we were ramping up to the guardian splitting up as a team No, or at the very least that was a possibility In you know, like in the conclusion of this film being like the end of the guardians as a team But the longer this film went on the less that seemed like a possibility. Yeah Yeah, because it's all about coming together to work together at the end I just made the most sense to me that you'd have a couple of them die and they realized I could see end of an era Like losing parts of the family means that like They're gonna now need to be set refigure out everything that things aren't the way they were But try to make it like some level of a positive Angle but having none of them die and none of them be Having summoned because like they treat the the peter realization as though he's actually having to go to a different galaxy or some Shit, it's like no, it's just next door. It's the core of this world What do you mean? You could have gone to earth for a whole like I said It's like when ant-man says like if the avengers need me, I'm just a call away It's like isn't that the guardian situation? Isn't that how it works? Well, remember in avengers Endgame they had the direct line of communication with rocket Well, yeah, I just don't get it Which I guess at least that kind of bolsters the idea that rocket could be the leader since he was sort of like In charge of whatever, you know, him and nebula were doing probably While they were out doing stuff some time independent as a leader But I don't know if I'm like fully sold on that as him being the leader of the team I always felt it was peter Well, peter is the leader but the idea that the next best choice was rocket It's like the next best choice was probably gamora, but she's out of the picture Um, is mantis a better leader than rocket? Uh Probably not. I well and yet mantis mantis not mantis nebula will be a better leader of nowhere Oh Nebula Uh, the thing about it. It's it's almost not even we're speculating because he clearly just didn't he didn't think about this himself He's just moved right along I wouldn't even be surprised at this point if um, he was told he's not allowed to kill anybody and that they have to um They they have to be in positions that are more so like you you can talk about how separated it is from maybe their goals Like mantis for example, but I have to imagine they they actually told him She needs to be separated off because we're going to be moving her into a some some of the show or something And and because like he just didn't try it all with her. He just said like uh, she's just going It's like what the what the fuck did they tell you to make you do that? I don't know I don't know Rocket and peter always argue over who's the captain. Uh, yeah, that's true I mean just running through that list it would have to be rocket. I there's nobody else There's nobody else who could be the leader at this point Well, I guess that was never in doubt I'm saying that it was clearly peter though, even though they would argue peter was always the leader I guess the thing is is what does it mean to say that rocket is the leader of a team that at that point? We don't even know what it looks like because as I was watching that scene all I thought is so it's just rocket and group Lee, you know the leader of rocket and group, but then they have craglin and and uh adam warlock in there So like I got the team and cosmo and little girl. Sorry that one chick and that one girl He does something we'll find out next time Well, because I mean, I'm not gonna find out I'm done Well, I mean, I mean, who knows if there are gonna be more guardians films But like the guardians and a lot of these characters are gonna I mean we're skipping ahead a bit But star lord's coming back Um, like yeah, well if you want if we we can we're nearly done if we just round it out, um Drax is crying when mantis leaves kind of sad I know right gamora is super happy to be back with the ravages who seem to be super happy She's back and it's so fucking weird that they didn't help her out at all in this whole fucking thing Um, they're her family. They're her people I don't buy it. Never will that's fine. You do you you gamora? Uh adam warlocks sort of just sitting around smiling Not much else you can do with him, I guess because he's not really got a connection to any other character Um, and then everyone is like sort of howling and yelling in a happy way and dancing and it's I don't know just for me. I didn't sit right. I was just like, yes Everything and everything was happily ever after everyone's so fucking happy. Oh, how great everything is. It's just like whatever It's a mixed bag because there were like aspects of it that I like the fact that Drax dances that's like a payoff because you don't dance even talked about it before and he's actually danced and like Nebula smiling is kind of like, oh shit. Like you don't see that You know, you don't see that ever just um and then rocket being super happy. It's like but at the same time It's like put the foundation upon which all of this is built. Oh my god Yeah, it works for me in the moment. It doesn't work for me anymore in the moment at work But most of the movie now Well, so that's that's it for my notes Um, uh, we're at oh and then post credit scene Yeah, but star lord the legendary star lord will return because this is marvel It's just marvel and nothing ever ends Fuck off is exactly how I felt Well, so where are we at? Well, so first question I was gonna have was um, does anybody because I'd already gone through all of these obviously so fucking wrote and detailed a lot of them and actually had to grab Some of the some of these can sneak by so quickly, you know, they they sure did Um, so I was just gonna ask for all of you In your estimation from the beginning of the stream to now. How was how was the film done? It's oh, uh way worse than I thought it uh originally was I didn't think that um Generally, I start off with is this above or below a five and I was like, well, it's not above a five that's for sure um What you know, and then it's just a matter of like, okay, what you know, how far down do things go um, I said at the beginning during my opening blur, but I really just sort of like To say I had the feeling I kind of knew that it was gonna it was gonna go down in my estimation Because like whenever I watch a film and I get that sense of like discontent And I already know what some of the problems are like floating around in my head in terms of plotting Like when I have that feeling So rarely does it turn out it's like oh no, actually it's like it gets way better when you start to delve into it Like um like talking about push and boots too with uh with metal and meme Like that that that's a film that improves when you run through it and you get all of the little details and things like that here are like Well, no, I left with that like really happy and so like the more that you talk about it the more you realize here I already knew that like the plot was probably gonna be a mess My concern is how much does it impugn character? But like damn, you know We're not a good place for this film I've soured on it heavily and now i'm depressed um, I you know, I I really I I think What I feel like is that the movie fooled me That you know into the into thinking it was because I I knew when I was watching it that the plot was going to be Shit the more I thought about it that felt pretty obvious But I think in terms of character writing and stuff like that It convinced me it was all right and then the more I thought about it. I'm like, you know, I actually Shit sucks in a lot of ways. I still really like rocket's origin story That's the best stuff of the movie But I'm at the point now where I think that's basically all I liked except for some of the jokes And there's a few yeah, a few little things here and there that I like but uh Now I'd never intend to watch it ever again before I would have been like, yeah, I'd give that a rewatch But now I don't give a shit. I quite like guardians one and two I do too. Likewise watch whatever. I don't want to rewatch this I will not rewatch this one If I do it'll just be a specific clip that I want to see maybe about this or that But it won't definitely give me the compilation of the rocket scenes You know, yeah It's just the rocket movie then sure maybe but like it's disappointing like that's it is I like guardians one and two. I like them a lot. They're the stronger entries in this World and this was like it. This was it in terms of basically investment like In uh in the characters of the mc at this point like these guys were the only ones left Um, there was an immediately coming out of the movie I thought it was because I don't like too all that much. I think it has a lot of problems But all those problems are dwarfed In this one or by this who has plot problems as well One is the tightest of the three like I think one two three one is the best It's not even close as far as I'm concerned. I think I think it's Kind of close between one and two I think the two is weaker than the first film. It's got more plot problems. I think Um, no not even I think it does have more plot problems But I think that like the gap between one and two is way smaller than the gap between two and three I feel that way now for sure. Yeah Like Yeah, it's it's not a good movie. Uh guardians three is not a good movie How did um not a curiosity metal and beam feel about it? Uh, they definitely liked it less than I did when we talked about it there. We went through a lot of the same plot problems. Um I don't it's been like this conversation was so long and so was that one I'm fuzzy on what we even said at this point. That one was six hours long. This one's like eight and a half Yeah, so I don't remember anymore Something I would say is that um The takeaway that we had from the Suicide Squad is plot catastrophe character Inex or like inexplicably really sound in the face of that Yeah, we were even shocked about how much there was barely any bleed from the plot into the characters Like bad plot in an often fuck up characters But there's a bit of a separation in the Suicide Squad as well as just gosh darn it I really liked a lot of the arcs in that film and I loved some of the character same same like uh The payoff with a rick flag like that is that's some great shit Solid and and peacemaker as well and then a blood sport the arc that he gets thrown on ratcatcher. Like that's got a really great uh It's just that the uh The quality of the plotting in terms of these james gun like superhero projects is like declined Um, but character was the thing that saved them and in this case, it's yeah Like rocket yes, but everybody else there's like there's problems varying degrees of destruction varying degrees. Yeah. Yeah Um, so what are we thinking in terms of a number? Fuck between two and three for me So here's the thing I had that typed out ready to click But uh, yeah, I that that's where my number was I'm not just to say I'm not going with the crowd here that I've I'm thinking about it too And it it legitimately pains me to say it um I don't know how much because this is a two that has some gold in them there hills. Um, but Uh, well, maybe it helps I think our benchmark for the highest rating out of all of the face for five projects bar No way home was shang chi like a three Do you think this is worse than shang chi? Yes, probably I think it destroys too many things that have yeah, I don't think I don't think shang chi does any kind of damage Like the fuck the this what like shang chi was okay. You know like Yeah, he makes he's very boring generic How much is it worth the rocket is really good? Uh, if the I mean we made it up to a two Because like I know it's like Like We have mantis is destroyed peter's concern for the lives of his you know people Uh nebula's weirdness with the mind control thing The plot is absolutely in shambles the world building. Don't even get me started Um, I mean like we've got rocket. I guess I mean drax is kind of like not good either not as bad as the others cragglin makes it out cosmo So that's like three I guess that's that's kind of that's I think that's what I'm struggling with is that when I compare it to A lot of the other marvel films that we've had There's like nothing really like that's the best that you get is Whereas here the best that you get is like oh, that's some let's look some really good shit The highs are higher but the lows are lower than some of the well Maybe maybe the thing that's worth emphasizing is that the reason why the lows can be lower is because these are Characters that were good and had a lot that was working for them coming into this film and toss a ball How much is that worth? Yeah ruining shang chi like who fucking cares right like it's bad. It's still bad, but you know, there's this element I'm pretty sure he makes it through that whole film fight. He's like. Yeah, you know as an example It you know, you made a new thing and ruined it so um Like compared to you had a whole bunch of material that was great And it was all fitting into the potential for like an excellent finale And I don't get how it happened. How did this happen? I don't know how this one happened He said he worked on it for a year the scripts Um, was he working on jokes for a year or was that the focus here? I mean, I wonder if it is a matter of uh, when he made one and two Those were the only things he was working on when he made this this was probably what peacemaker was happening Um and obviously post production and editing like side this was but but there were no reshoots as I understand it Like this is this is it like this is the film Um that it was always meant to be and there probably wasn't I don't know how much studio interference There would have been on this, you know How much was how much was marvel telling him what he couldn't couldn't do when they knew that this was the end For him making marvel films and when they probably have the knowledge that making a guardians film without james gun That might be challenging. His identity is too baked into guardians compared to everything else that they have Well, yeah, they might not do any solo ones, but they can obviously put them in other Yeah, that says I throw them into other films um I think I'm I think I'm gonna free Yeah, I'm I'm gonna. Yeah, I can see it. I can see it going either way Um, it's tough to it's tough to measure up all of these things because there's a lot of stuff to kind of like way Two out of ten guardians movie wrapped around a six out of ten rocket movie See the thing is is with rocket It's kind of complicated because I think that the high evolutionary starts to sort of collapse towards the end And he's like a big part of that story Like you look at him in the earlier portion of the film I think he's really strong and then the longer it goes on as we were talking about the more He starts to just sort of descend into madness. Let's go again Like the basic intelligence of everybody in this film is kind of terrible And the reason why rocket escapes is because he's mostly not in the film. Yeah, he's in a coma so he can't be like It's uh, I'm very glad in hindsight Uh, I think when moller said originally that like his uh, the high evolutionary's motivation Is strong, but like every plan he enacts is retarded. So it's yeah Like the idea behind the high evolutionary is really cool to me The idea of a guy who like just fundamentally does not like nature as it operates where things play out as they do And you know, like whatever whatever being sort of arise from that We can recognize the value in in that and that's that's like enough That he feels the need that he needs to control it and that he and that whatever notion even has a perfect is like Well, that's you that's the thing you made up and who are you, you know, are you perfect? Like why who why do you think that you can like there's a lot of great ideas there And I feel like we got some of that and we didn't get everything that we could out of it. Um, yeah Especially when it comes to like him fighting against them in the main current timeline I think you know in the backstory he's he's pretty solid If I could mention again, I went into this film so ready to love it. It was like I think that was very that should have been very apparent to everybody This was the one that we were this was the one that we had some expectations for in the lead-up When we saw like the clip of the conversation between rocket lila teeths and uh flaw Um, like that that got us uh, that got us more optimistic I got us more optimistic of like oh damn like that's great. Oh sweet. We're gonna get an awesome finale I really really really really really wanted this to be great regarding that sewage. I just give it guys Enjoy the hell out of it I enjoyed a lot of it Yeah, I this worked for me in a lot of ways a lot of the comedy work for me a lot of the emotions And why people would enjoy it? I totally understand like why people would this this film has got like a lot of moments in it That are like emotionally I think that's something that's worth emphasizing like even with all of these problems I don't think that this film is nearly a cynical as like the rest of these marvel films that we've been getting for the last Few years No, I think everybody I think everybody cared when they were making this it's just that some of these decisions were like Baffling, I don't even know if I'd say misguided. They're just confused. They're baffling to me some of these choices And like some of these missed opportunities seems so obvious, you know um Yeah Yeah Yeah Um So I'm gonna wallow for a little bit. What happens now. Yeah, that's very what happens now is that I'm done with the mcu forever That's what's done. That's what happens now. This is really fucking silly It's totally done for me. I mean I was ready to check out even even if I walked away thinking this was really good Yeah, oh, yeah, that would have been ending on a high note I mean and I did end things on a high note and leave yeah And I did you know, I did really enjoy it in the moment But it just I feel like the the film is like if I'm a raccoon and I'm holding cotton candy And I try to wash it in the water to clean my food and it just disappears That's what that's what it feels like right now. Yeah It's a metaphor Analgy simple Hey, you remembered my joke Oh your joke I well, I said it. I'll probably not the first person to think of it, but I did say it earlier Oh, I'm not denying that Rex, but I'm gonna fit that one like fucking a decade ago Oh, well, you know, if I Yeah, that's fine. Get fucking right How you doing chat How's everyone feeling? It just feels a little weird. It's like eight hours of just ripping this fucking movie apart But try to celebrate what we could as we went I guess uh Again worth emphasizing Written for this film like really was really rooting for this film Really because this was like this was uh, I think we went to incident to this one This is like the end right of marvel. This is like it for films, you know storytelling Yeah Really was Well, at least we got two good guardians movies We did I can remember them as they were not as they Ended up being There's a bit of a sense with this the because we haven't really talked about whether or not it is Because like it was seen as the sequel to guardians galaxy two, which is like it's it's getting portaled from phase three Not phase four and five. You know what I mean? Like it's like this secret hatch where it's coming from a place of quality So it's gonna be different But like this film is different from it's definitely different But holy fuck. I never expected to score this low. You kidding me. No movie like this I figured uh, I figured that the suicide squad was gonna be like, you know, that's that's like james gun It is worse to still great characters And now it's just I'm shudder to think about If the like the dc eu might be like just as bad as always Um, I don't know what I think about a different kind of bad, but it could be just bad It could I don't know what I he could pop out a masterpiece at any moment. Who knows he could yeah, he could yeah I suppose he could I really liked slither and super but I haven't seen them in a long time Oh, here's a question. What do you guys think of the box office potential for this? um I I don't know. I think uh, well, I think it will be I I guess my I wonder if it's going to make as much money as the other two which about 700 800 million Um, I could see it doing that I don't know if we'll do better than that I think the environment that it's in is Already It's hurt by phase four phase four has done immense damage to the reputation of marvel Uh, clearly. So That's a question. Does it do as well as the other ones part of me wonders if Like definitely it could it could damage it Uh, but I wonder if people will have the perception as we hoped it would have That it would be Different that it'd be like, yeah, the rest of marvel has not been good recently But ah, this could be the good one. So we'll go check that out question the general And what is the I mean, what are the general I think the general reaction is going to be positive. That'd be my guess I've seen intense positivity for this film so far yeah, it ends very like An enormous way upbeat Um, it's got a safe ending It has a lot of laughs along the way It's got it's got it moves at a breakneck pace stuff's always happening always lots of banter between characters It's got an interesting villain. It's got those, you know, you know, you're you're refreshed Um by the you know flashback sequences scattered throughout I think that yeah, they wouldn't surprise me at all if this is quite beloved by people Maybe that drop off I'll be curious about and then we're the mouth, uh, which seems strong right now But who knows if it'll change what I'm really curious about is if it you know remains considered really good Or uh, if that changes with time, I think it will change with time what's funny is that I mean the Thing that we were hearing from like critics and a couple of like early reviews was film is like too dark too dreary and lots of lots of cruelty and violence and stuff It's just it's just not even close to my issues No, honestly, that's some of my favorite stuff Well, I'd say that it's just it wasn't as uh, it wasn't as weighty in that regard as it could have been and as what I was expecting I was like and I guess it's you know Recently for the first time watching no country for old men. It's like, you know You can bear that to this in terms of how gloomy and dreary You know a film can get a fucking good movie I love that movie. It's amazing um well That's that I suppose or anything else you guys want to say about guardians of the galaxy three No No No that chapter closed Yep, and now it's just always gotta be, you know quality mcu films going forward, oh Yeah, man, we're excited about the future of this this world No No Definitely not emphatically not I'll wait to see adam warlock more Hmm I guess I'm legitimately done. I I'm not doing it anymore. You can't It's the only time you do it if you were invited to talk about the one stream Um Honestly, if I hear from you guys that one of the next ones is actually surprisingly good. That's probably all that would convince me well Maybe the marbles will blow us away, you know, maybe it'll maybe Maybe anything's possible Needle no, it's dc That's dc It's probably gonna be like a shazam situation again. It's probably is it's gonna fucking tank That's what's next though. That's that's yeah, that'll be a month away from now. That'll be a weird one for us Yeah, I don't see how that one could be good, but There's a morbid fascination curiosity. Oh, yeah, I'm super fascinated. Uh, yeah That's what's that look like. I'm looking forward to that shit show It's gonna be weird Um Capital oh opinions. Why don't you tell people what you're up to these days and where they can find you You can find me at the channel, which is also called capital low opinions on the youtube I am spending most of my time working on some efat movies Which will come out later this year and they're gonna be very funny So stay tuned for that also more devs is also coming I'm not making any promises anymore, but it's on the way I have to we have to explain quantum mechanics in this episode So it's taking some time to make sure that we actually get it right Oh god, they know it makes sense Because the show doesn't understand quantum mechanics, but we have to understand it to explain how it doesn't so It's gonna be fun. He's going like a full university course just to rip into this tv show That's how it feels to me Trying to keep it contained so it doesn't sprawl into this like an hour long lecture in the middle of the video But you know, we'll see what happens That will be on the horizon Well, um, and thank you obviously for hanging out with us for that full near nine hours talking about this little kid's movie For babies for babies babies Uh Fring rags. Is anything you guys wanted to talk about? No, I'm hungry I'm tired. Yeah Mando uh season 3 episode 8 if up tb. I'm currently working on it. Uh, hopefully we'll be done soon I mean that's why I'm just going after this so, you know I am working away at projects Uh, perhaps someday I will tell you more than that precious precious cat Plush channel, but but now that's it from us. That's uh God, yeah I won't go on the unusual for a film breakdown. I still don't think it meets out How long I think we knew that going in? Yeah, there's just so much to talk about and so much history this, uh It'll be in a way But um, hope you had lots of fun everybody. I know that we did We sure did so much for the uh friendly company kind donations Of which uh, we're just regularly releasing them every Wednesday now. Um Open to we're not fully caught up yet, but we will be again. Don't worry and as was mentioned Mando is on the way As well as eventually possibly Gotham Knights Um And um next week is a good chance. It won't be an eFab episode. It'll be a gartik phone episode because Somehow we're still two episodes ahead of the fucking anniversary time Gotta figure this out move things around but um Yeah, it's been a while since we played a little video game show Perhaps that shall be a fun In any case you all sleep well now We'll do whatever it is you want to do, you know, I'm not I'm not your parent Okay, even then you might be old enough that that wouldn't even matter. Do whatever I'm your parent go to sleep All right. Well you heard him Off you pop everybody. Good night now. Bye everyone Bye