 Good evening, everyone. And it was Brennan Hogan, chair of the public works commission. Welcoming you all to this March. Meeting of our commission. First item on the agenda is the. Agenda itself. Motion to approve. All right. We have a motion from commissioner bar. I'll second the motion to approve the agenda. The second from vice chair on the obonco. Director Spencer. Yes, let's see. We did get a request for some edits from commissioner overbie for the minute. So maybe. If I understand the motion would be to approve the consent agenda. I think that's fine. With the draft minutes probably being moved to 4. Oh, one just so that we can discuss those. And it's in. And then have a vote separately. I can amend my motion to. What you just said. Yeah. That's fine. I mean, another, another play would be to kick those to next month. Yeah. I certainly haven't seen them, but I know they came in this afternoon. We can speak to what others afternoons and early evenings. So far have been like. Our fellow commissioners may not have time to review those. I'm amenable to that. To move kicking until next month. Yeah, I am too. It did come in quite, quite late. I was able to kind of glance over those edits. I think that's fine. I think that's fine. I think that's fine. I think that's fine. I generally don't have the bandwidth. You know, For in the afternoon. Let me just add that we circulated those later than commissioner. We sent them in. So we, let me just make sure that I take the fall for that one. We should have circulated those earlier, but we'd also be able to bring those up on screen whenever those need to be. You're. Understood. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I will accept the agenda. With removal of the draft minutes of February 16th. Pushing those till. April. Okay. Is that friendly to the seconder? Yes. Thank you. Any further discussion on the motion. All right. Thank you. We'll go to a vote then. Commissioner Barr. Hi. Commissioner Bose. Hi. Mr. Kennedy. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. I for myself. The modified agenda here has passed six to zero. Thank you. Moving forward to. Public forum. Invite. Participants that wish to speak and just simply ask the, keep your remarks to three minutes. Or less. We will. I'm not the deliberative. Deliberative. Items. Later on the agenda will open up a chance for public comment specific to those. As well. But if there's general remarks or you don't have time to stay. For the particular agenda items. Welcome to speak at this time. Mr. Goulding. Do you have signups in the. In the room or online? Do. Yeah. For folks online. If you've joined us via zoom. Please use this. Raise hand function at the bottom of your zoom. Toolbar. And it looks like a few folks have called in. So if you have called in and want to speak during public product, please use star nine. That will alert us that you wish to speak for right now. We do have two people in queue. In the room. So if. Chair and the commissioner. Let's go. Thank you. I would like to speak on the item on the second agenda. So I don't know if this is too early. I understand that the homeless pods that they're planning on putting downtown. There were other locations. I would really appreciate it if you would list for me the 10 other locations that were being designed. Other locations that were being considered. For this project. Thank you. Thank you. Next. We have in the room with us, Mary. Yes. I am also speaking about. The pods that are going to be going into. On the. I'm a small time landlord. I rent. Eight apartments. I'm in row street. We have a lot of problems. In the neighborhood as it is. With homeless people. People that are. Mentally challenged. Walk down the street. Drinking publicly. Urinating publicly. And. I'm. Being overburdened by property taxes. And I'm not. They're saying that property taxes. Property values are going to depreciate. Because we're in a district with a homeless community. I would like to know. What's going to happen. How it's going to be supervised. How it's going to be managed. If there's going to be somebody on staff all the time. What are the cooking and bathroom privileges going to be like. I'm just very concerned that it's going to downgrade. Our neighborhood. When it was just coming back up. And. Becoming revitalized. It's going to go downhill again. I can't even walk through a battery park. Without. Being confronted by homeless people sitting out there. Drinking. Sleeping on park benches. And you're just bringing them all up to the north end. And I would like to see you. Put that place. With those parts. Somewhere's out besides the old North. There's enough. Problems. We don't need anymore. Yeah, thank you for your remarks. There's a couple of questions there. Make sure we'll circle back and notice on the discussion item. Related to the shelter pots. Thank you. Any, I see one. Virtual hand in the air. Next in queue. Nicholas. Thank you. Can you guys hear me? Yes, we can. Okay, great. Yes, I would like to echo the comments that were just made. My name is Nick. I'm also a landowner. In the neighborhood. Directly where these. Pods are proposed to be positioned. I'm speaking not just as a landowner, but as the steward of homes for. You know, Close to 40 people. I've had numerous phone calls and my property manager has had numerous phone calls for people expressing extreme. Disappointment, concern and fear. We have several families that live in the neighborhood. We have several families that live in these buildings. Obviously I have a vested interest and I echo the comments that were made with regard to the value of properties and sort of what's going on in the community. But I also want to speak for the families and women and children that, you know, this is a big public safety concern. From what I understand, this is a wet facility where drinking will be allowed. We all know that there will be drugs as well. I want to know what is going to be done from a safety perspective. I want to know why the community and the landowners were not notified before this. And I'd like to know what's going to be done in order to ameliorate the situation and make it safe and equitable for everyone. Next in queue, we have Sharon. Hi, good evening. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Welcome. Okay. I could hear you. It looks like you may be muted again. Okay. Can you hear me now? Yes. Okay. Sorry. So I have two separate comments. One is I wanted to, I call in frequently to. Voice concern or, or to make a comment that always isn't a positive, but I wanted to. Let the commission know I want to be, I wanted to thank staff. For their reaching out to the residents of East Avenue. And the process that was undertaken for traffic calming. And their willingness to have another meeting. To discuss the process as it was laid out. So I wanted to let the commission know that staff was very responsive. And I wanted to thank them publicly for that. The second piece has to do with what was just talked about the, the pods for the homeless. And I support this, but I, there is a zoning amendment going through planning, which talked about all of the aspects of being administratively approved, et cetera. And I brought up the fact that I didn't feel that there was in that zoning amendment, any notification of the neighbors or the neighborhood where this site might be located. And then lo and behold, the next day it was identified that this parking lot had been chosen. I think it's unfortunate. I think that a meeting to hear from neighbors and to have people reassured would have helped. And I think that the staff was very responsive and I appreciate that. And I think that I would like to allay some of the concerns raised and maybe not all of them. But I think because we're fast tracking it, I appreciate that because there's such a need. But I think that without having everything laid out, I think that this is, this is the ramifications of that. This is what happens. People are frustrated, concerned. And I think that's what we're doing. I think that's what we're doing. I think that's what we're doing during those concerns. So I'm hoping that if we identify other sites, we'll have a zoning amendment that will inform the public. So we can do this better than we have this time. Thank you. Thank you. At this time, there's no one else signed up to speak during this public comment period. All right. Thank you, Mr. Golden. It looks like somebody raised their hand in the room there. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I have a question for the chair, but. Are we only allowed to have the one comment per segment? Yeah. If you're interested in the shelter pad, let's. We're trying to address your questions. And if there's something else, you can, you can speak specifically to that item at that time. Okay. Thank you. All right. With that. We'll move on to the consent agenda. We have a motion to approve the consent agenda. We have a motion from commissioner Barr. Thank you. I can. I'll close public forum and move to the consent agenda. A reminder that we've. Striction for a, and we are just looking at. For B on a North street, reallocation. For C on a shelter street roundabout regulations and for D. A note parking zone on over lake. Motion to approve the consent agenda. Thank you for that. Is there any discussion around that motion? All right. To a vote then. Commissioner Barr. Got to find my mute. I got a thumbs up and a verbal. I noted. Commissioner both. Hi. Thank you. Commissioner Kennedy. Hi. You vice chair, O'Neill. Hi. Commissioner Overby. Hi. I for myself consent agenda is passed. Six zero. Thank you. Next item and agenda. Item five, clean water resiliency plan and integrated permit update. Look for a staff presentation at this time. Yes, indeed. Thank you so much, chair Hogan. I have with me this evening division director, Megan Moyer and a number of other members. Jenna Olson from water resources, Martin Lee from water resources. We're really excited to bring this presentation to you tonight, both of what we have accomplished with the clean water resiliency plan. Since voters approved the 2018 bond. And the next phase of our water quality work through the integrated plan. And I won't spoil the thunder, but there's a lot of good work that's been done and will need to be done. Some of that will have. Financial impact. And we want to engage you early and often in these conversations. So given that, I'll turn it over. The division director Megan more. Great. Thanks, Chapin. Jenna, do you want to share or do you want me to share the. Presentation and run it. We didn't figure that part out. I'm happy to share. Okay. Is it. I don't see it yet. Great. So hi, everyone. Happy almost sort of spring. I don't know exactly what season we're in, but it certainly feels spring like today. And we are really excited to. Talk to you about a lot of work that's been going on behind the scenes. We will be talking some big numbers, but as Chapin said, we need to get those out and start talking about those, you know, especially giving everything, everything else that's in the city happening in the city. Joining me is Jenna Olson, our water policy and programs manager who's going to be talking to you specifically about the integrated planning piece. And meeting some of our water quality goals. And then Martin Lee, who's one of our more senior water resources engineers, who's going to be talking to you specifically about the integrated planning piece. Next slide. So I just wanted to take a quick step back and share with you sort of what our approach is with regard to, you know, some of our mission. There's a lot of stuff that we can't control in the environmental world. Such as climate change, or at least that's not our primary mission. But there are some things that we are within our control, and that's really where we've been focusing our efforts. One of the primary threats to the lake. Is just simply aging waste, wastewater and storm water infrastructure. Not every single piece of equipment that fails will immediately result in a discharge of sewage, but it certainly makes our jobs harder and can contribute to that risk. And there are pieces. That as we know have failed and have directly resulted in the closure of beaches and a discharge of the partially or improperly treated sewage. Even if there's not a sewage discharge, the closure of streets, the interruption of service is something that we are keenly aware of. The other major threat that we are trying to tackle is the excess nutrients specifically phosphorus from wastewater and storm water. And we're doing that through our integrated planning process that general will talk to you more about. And really looking at how we can implement phosphorus reductions that are mandated. By the Lake Champlain cleanup plan. And the reason for this is that phosphorus is what is one of the things that drives the cyanobacteria. Blooms. And we know in 2021 was a pretty challenging year in which there was at least one day in which all of Burlington's beaches were closed. And we know that a number of them were closed throughout the summer. Next slide. While those other two things are certainly our primary goals. Other things that we have been working on for decades. And then we'll continue to work on our, tackling combined sewer overflows. We've done amazing amounts of work since 1990. But we still have the tippy top of the tree to grab. To stop. CSOs from happening on the base on the frequent basis that they do still occur, particularly into the pine barge canal. And we'll talk to you more about that. And then the other water quality goal that we haven't really talked a lot recently about is. Tackling the excess stormwater flows that run off in the pervious surface and end up causing major erosion, which can be a source of nutrients, but also just purely habitat impacts on some of our urban streams, namely Ingallsby, Centennial Brook, and Potash Brook. Next slide. So hopefully we referred to it a lot. The clean water resiliency plan. This plan came together rather quickly. After we had those major challenges in 2018, we wanted to make sure that we weren't just only tackling the specific things that broke at the plant, but that we were using this as an opportunity to engage the community and starting to pay. And starting to reinvest in our infrastructure. As well as to start doing this forward look, which is sort of. Bullets five and seven, which is the integrated planning, which is talking really about how do we make improvements? So a lot of the infrastructure stuff is how do we make sure we bolster our system so that we don't backslide. If the wastewater plants start failing, we will immediately start discharging more phosphorus than we already discharged potentially. And certainly untreated pollution. But how do we actually do that? And as I think hopefully we all recall in 2018, we did put together this sort of initial tranche of money that we knew we needed $30 million. And we were very, very pleased that the community came out and drove to support us. And we had a 92% approval rating. So next slide. Where are we at? What do we've been doing with this money? We have already spent a lot of money. We have already spent a lot of money. We've spent about $7 million that $7 million was specifically on those systems that failed at the wastewater treatment plant. Just to orange you to the table, which has more detail. The purple items are things that specifically draw down our, our borrowing. Our bonding authority. The things in yellow are sort of project development, loans. The state does give us planning and design loans, which don't necessarily draw down your authority until such time that the project becomes a construction project. And so those are a lot of things that are happening that will get converted into design or construction projects later on. And then the items in green are items that we actually have received grant money for. And overall, by the end of 2022, we will have programmed over 80% of these funds, which is why we're starting the conversation about what's next. Next slide. One of the things that came up, certainly when we have asked for the, the bonding authority and asked to go to the voters as well as when we've made other changes, other investments in our organization, such as adding staff. It was a different thing. It was a joint goal of water resources as well as the council and I think the commission to make sure that while we are, while we are reinforcing our stewardship of water infrastructure, right? Which necessarily requires more money. We need to make sure that people can afford that water and afford that wastewater service. And so we spent a fair amount of time with you. I think it was last year. Yeah. Last year, talking about our rate payer affordability projects and going through the various rate structure adjustments, which included the lifeline rate tier. And which created a tier for the lower usage customers so that that water was cheaper. It's sort of the life water, the water that most people generally need just to do their typical daily things. And then we also started setting up user class based rates, which will enable us to, in any given year, keep water and wastewater services affordable for residential folks. But potentially look at the fact that commercial entities can put more of a burden on the system and thus could be charged a higher cost of service. We also have implemented a fixed fee waiver. So these are actual discounts for people who demonstrate that they are low income and are burdened folks who are over 65 and a test that they would otherwise have challenge paying their water bill if they didn't have this program, as well as nonprofit and senior housing. And then we've also implemented sewer lateral inspection rebates and WaterSense fixture rebates. This is the early stage of the program. The other piece that we acknowledge and we're going to be coming back hopefully by 2023 is that a lot of these features really help. Homeowners and not necessarily rate renters. And so that was sort of the missing piece that we acknowledge and we know we need to circle back. Next slide. So with that, I'm going to hand it over to Martin, who's going to talk to you specifically about what's been going on and the sort of upper right hand quadrant dealing with our aging wastewater and stormwater infrastructure. Martin. Thanks, Megan. I'm Martin Lee. And I'm going to talk to you. Thanks, Megan. I'm Martin Lee and. Let's talk about what we've completed to date. The cost background that Megan. Provided before. Was helpful and I want to show you some pictures of. What those projects entailed over the last couple of years. On the, we really focused first on the systems that. That had failed. So we jumped right into design and construction. Soon after for. Disinfection as well as some computer enhancements at the wastewater plants. So these photos here show. What we did at the main wastewater plant, which is the largest and most complicated of the plants. At all three wastewater plants, we replaced tanks. So then the lower left, you can see the tanks at the main wastewater plant. We also replaced. Piping and pumps. So the lower right hand. Corner shows the. Interior basement of the controlled room at the main wastewater plant. And. The computer screens just. I'm going to show you. An example of what the operators are able to see the actual upgrade. Is. Throughout the whole. Plant at the main wastewater plant. What we call the skater system. Slide. Other work that we just completed. This last fall. Is pump station work. This is the lowest point in our collection system. And they. Pump or raise, lift the water up to higher elevations. So the wastewater can flow by gravity. From that point. And they're critical because if they fail. We can have an uncontrolled discharge of. Wastewater. Here, the Flynn app on station picture. It's a good coverage of that item slide. Now what we're doing. Currently. Work that started last fall. And we'll continue through this year. We'll continue to do that. We'll continue to do that. We'll continue to do that. We'll continue to do that. But this race restoration has been completed and you can see the. Generator and control panel there. The Fletcher place pump station. Picture is during. Construction. And I think. It's a good coverage of that item slide. Now, what we're doing. We're doing a lot of work on that. So what we're doing through this year is. A comprehensive. Distribution and collection system project. So it's. One of the largest in. Recent history here for our water. Sewer and stormwater work of this type for pipe rehabilitation. Essentially. So approximately 7,600 feet of water pipe, which. We've done a similar scale in the past, but. We've done a lot of. Collection system is way above what we think that we've done before. So that's pretty exciting. We have granted in liner. As the contractor, the design was done in house by DPW staff. Our resident engineer and project management is done by DuBoy and King. And we have multiple funding sources, budget funds, office fees, water, water analysis. Revolving fund. Drinking water state revolving fund. Water bond proceeds, water, capital, and Paving Capital. That also speaks all these funding sources speak to the committee team players. Involve in this project. Slide, please. locations, some of the work that any of the water relining locations, any locations where we're digging and replacing sewer and anywhere where we're doing full width paving, that that's what we recognize as the highest impact work for this project because that's longer duration weeks, or in some cases months because water relining will be typically two to three months. And that that work has advanced notification to customers. And we also do we're working on broader outreach, as well as some locations such as at home have where there's a lot of industry really targeted outreach to those folks as well. So here, I did list that on the strut on the slide, where we're doing water relining, where we're doing sewer replacement and where the full width paving is happening. Slide please. So this is another aspect, the green stormwater infrastructure for the clean water resiliency plan. This is work that we've done and we do have some more work lined up for this year. So in the pictures here in the south end, we have 15 stormwater gardens recently installed as part of the $1 million grant funding that we captured. And this is above the Pine Street combined sewer overflow. So that we're pretty excited about that. The next round of green stormwater infrastructure work has design completed. So we are planning on implementing more green stormwater infrastructure this year in the old north end. And slide please. So last slide that I'm going to talk about for now is the other work that we have lined up for future that's more in the planning and design phase. So we're getting getting close on the next wastewater treatment plant work that's part of this clean water bond. And that's close to $12 million worth of work. That includes some clarifier work, some grit handling, some screening, important updates to systems that are well past their useful life. We're also I have pump stations listed here. We just completed construction but now we're currently also in preliminary engineering phase for pump stations. And we're going to be pursuing the highest priority three to bring into final design and construction. We have additional green stormwater infrastructure work. And that's I previously mentioned that so that that's what we have under completed the design complete and will be occurring in the old north end this year. The last item that I want to talk about is the stormwater outfalls which we have a design complete for Manhattan have stormwater outfalls which will be a pretty large project that covers multiple stormwater outfalls below the Manhattan drive area. And these projects are important for stabilizing slopes, preventing erosion. And we really are looking forward to getting these done. And beyond that construction, we're also looking at getting out there and assessing our 260 plus other outfalls and moving ahead on design with the six highest risk ones. Slide. I'll hand this over to Megan. Thank you, Martin. Hopefully you guys are as excited as we are about all the work that's happening. I wanted just to kind of go through I've been trying to figure out how to demonstrate that one, we are moving the needle. So what we did with our engineers kind of go through the systems now, there isn't recognition of some systems being large and some systems being small, but our engineer helped us develop risk scores for our systems. And you can see that after two in 2018, when those when we had those sewage overflows, you know, we had a significant bar in the F grade region. And then you can see that after the 2021 upgrades, which focus specifically on those failed systems, we had a couple more grade A things and a few less grade F things. The challenge is, is that even with the nugget of money, the $30 million that that we asked for, we tried to be very careful when we were talking about that, that the ratepayers and everybody knew that this was just the beginning, we always knew that there was more to do. And that last graph, which shows that there are there will be still significant numbers of systems in the CD and f grade is sort of the reason why we need to keep going on this work. There's a couple of reasons for that a $30 million is not enough money to fix three plants, which are more than 20 years old, but also anything that we're not able to fix continues to age and then it continues to get poor and poor grade as it goes out towards failure. Next slide. So we're just starting this conversation with you all about what I'm sort of calling our 2030 resiliency vision of what a world it would be to have a system where everything was in these A, B, and C sort of acceptable grades. With our consulting engineer, we have been crunching the numbers of what this would cost and the numbers are large. For just the wastewater treatment plants alone, so not collection system infrastructure, not stormwater outfalls, not dealing with combined sewer overflows, we are looking at something in the realm of $150 million. That's not the number that we think we'll be going for in November for a lot of reasons. We're doing some analysis right now to figure out what that magnitude does need to be. We recognize that on one hand, it's a really challenging time in the city to be even contemplating this sort of borrowing. But on the flip side, we are hopeful that the additional federal funding or rather federal loan money that's coming is going to make it the best time that one could be trying to borrow money, mostly because the hope or the what's being broadcast right now is that there will be additional loans, loan money pools, and then there is likely to be loan forgiveness. And so we're hopeful that we may be able to stretch these rate payer funds. Another thing we're looking at is maybe considering longer term bonds. We've often gone out for 20 year bonds. Some of the infrastructure that we're going to be looking at building should be longer term, you know, potentially in the 35 to 50 year range, particularly if we end up consolidating East Plant with Main Plant, which is a alternative that is starting to rise at the top that we'll be talking with you more about hopefully in the future. But nonetheless, you know, this $150 million is just for the wastewater treatment plans. And we do know we want to make sure we broadcast that there's a lot of other infrastructure needs that we need to be tackling, including drinking water and including the things that Jenna's going to be talking to you about just now. Think next slide and I think it's handing it over to Jenna. Are you there Jenna? I need to unmute myself. So this is a quote from the Lake Champlain Basin programs 2021 State of the Lake report. Sayana bacteria conditions very significantly among lake segments and warm weather blooms continue to present a challenge to recreation and public health. It's important to understand why Sayana bacteria blooms happen. Sayana bacteria feed on nutrients more specifically phosphorus. We have a really wet spring, a lot of nutrients are washed into the lake. And then those nutrients stick to the sediment that ends up accumulating in shallow bays. And on a really warm, really calm day with no wind, the Sayana bacteria are start feeding on those nutrients and begin to reproduce really quickly, which leads to a bloom. So for the remainder of the presentation, you're going to hear me using the word load a lot. And I think you may have heard Megan say it a couple of times. And I just want to take a quick minute to explain what we mean when we're talking about loading. So before when I was saying nutrients enter the lake, that is summed up as the nutrient load. The load comes from the flow of treated wastewater or stormwater runoff entering the lake multiplied by how much pee or phosphorus is actually in that water. This is a graphic many of us are probably familiar with and we're talking about phosphorus contributions to Lake Champlain. It's really important to understand that there are three distinct watersheds that contribute. We have New York, Quebec, and of course Vermont. Vermont makes up the lion's share of phosphorus contribution at approximately 69% of the total load. It's also hard to ignore the really big piece of this pie that's credited to agriculture. But I'm going to ask that you do just that for now. While we fully recognize and understand that everyone has to do their part in order to to really move move forward on this, Burlington is focused on the pieces that we contribute to and that's the urban runoff and wastewater treatment facility factors. So when you put Burlington in context with the other parts of the state that contribute to our lake segments, we account for approximately 3.8% of the total phosphorus load that's going there. What comes out to for us is that we have about 1,102 pounds to reduce overall. 990 pounds in the wastewater treatment facility sector, 204 pounds in the developed land sector. Now the way those numbers stack up against the rest of the state may seem like a drop in the bucket, but the important context here is how directly Burlington's economic livelihood is tied to Lake Health. According to a 2021 report from the Gund Institute, studies estimate approximately 2.2 billion dollars in economic losses each year due to the effects of nutrient pollution in lakes and ponds. Now here in Vermont, Lake Champlain alone generates close to 300 million dollars in tourism revenues every year. So here in Burlington, the relationship between our economic health and the health of the lake really can't be overstated. And as if tackling excess nutrient loading wasn't enough, we also have other water quality challenges. CSOs are primarily stormwater with a smaller fraction of sewage, but still present a significant water quality issue by causing acute periods of elevated bacteria for short periods of time versus the chronic concern posed by nutrient loading. We've done a huge amount of work since the 1990s to address our CSOs down to only five outfalls from 12 originally. Now those remaining five, Pine Street does still see multiple activations a year and discharges to the barge canal and ultimately the lake. In-stream erosion also continues to be an ongoing challenge for our urban streams. Bank erosion can destroy sensitive habitat for aquatic organisms who live in the stream bed and it also releases nutrients from the eroded material which further exacerbates exacerbates phosphorus issues in downstream lakes and ponds. So now that we've sort of set the stage on the swath of challenges and investments facing our city, let's talk about integrated planning and what it is and why we're doing it. The EPA came up with the idea of integrated planning and recognition of the constantly increasing regulatory requirements that face municipalities across the country. Now each permit that EPA or the state administers may be perfectly manageable on its own. These regulatory requirements add up, it can create a pretty burdensome financial situation for cities and towns. Further, simply complying with each permit independently doesn't give us any opportunity to consider how different alternatives could better support other community objectives like equity, environmental justice, climate resilience, things like that. And it's also worth noting that even though Burlington was one of the first communities to consider integrated planning, there are several other communities throughout the northeast and across the country who are actively implementing the framework today. Now the good news here is that we aren't starting from ground zero. The Lake Champlain TMDL was based on modeling conducted over a 10-year period between the year 2000 and 2010. Now one major component of developing this plan has been accounting for work the city's done since 2010, as well as considering the basic performance and optimization work that's been done at our three wastewater treatment plants. So when you look at our baseline goal of 10,684 pounds per year, then you look at our performance to date, you see 9,582 pounds per year that we've already achieved. Now what that accounts for comes up, it's really four primary things. First and foremost is that really this is two part, our wastewater plants weren't discharging permitted flows to begin with. And then our wastewater plants also have been and continue to perform better than their permit limits, specifically main plant. Chemical optimization at all three plants has also occurred over the last several years and while it's been most successful at main plant it has achieved reductions at all three facilities. And then finally of course the stormwater retrofits that we've constructed throughout the city have also contributed to this figure. So while this accounting is certainly favorable to Burlington, those last 1,102 pounds that Megan sort of started talking about earlier, those pounds are going to be the trickiest. So let's get into how we're going to bring this thing home. Megan, do you want to touch on annual average? Yes, I just it's a bit of a nuance but when you when you start listening to what our phosphorus reduction strategies are, it's important that you do understand that the 1,102 pounds is an annual average that was based on the study period from 2017 to 2019 at our plants. And the challenge is that as you can see from this graph, the phosphorus load at our largest wastewater treatment plant, main plant, it can be greatly influenced by the amount of rainfall and also the intensity of storms. And so this is important to keep in mind when we look at our strategies that it's not really landing a mark on any on a given year, it's making sure that every year no matter what mother nature throws at us that our strategy is going to keep us within permit limits and make sure that we're fully tackling the phosphorus that's coming our way. I'm going to hand it back over to Jenna so she can go through what those strategies are. So as I was touching upon earlier, the worker consultant team has been doing for the last five years has required a significant amount of engineering and technical analysis, looking at different strategies that we could pursue to meet our regulatory goals. This work included assessing different project combinations and then assembling those into different combinations that we could implement. So the candidate portfolios is what we're calling them, were evaluated on a variety of criteria related to their different benefits and impacts. The process finally included a financial capability assessment to consider the monetary impacts that something like this would have to the city. So the consulting team ultimately presented us with three main portfolio options with a series of enhancements that we could pursue based on community feedback and priorities as well as available funding. We ended up breaking these portfolio options up a bit to include some of these additional enhancements which are the 1B and the 2B that you see. The most significant difference between the options in portfolio one and portfolio two is the wastewater treatment upgrades that were considered. We are not going to delve into much detail on those tonight but would be happy to answer any questions either offline or sometime later this week. In terms of cost estimates it's also important to note the estimates presented here do not currently account for inflation nor do they consider ongoing challenges related to the pandemic and ancillary supply chain issues. And ultimately this is the portfolio that came out on top. Now our selected path consists of five primary project focus areas. One is implementation of the projects that were included with our original flow restoration plans for Englesby, Potash, and Centennial Brooks. Two is implementation of a series of green stormwater infrastructure systems specifically in combined sewer areas. Three is repair of separate stormwater outfalls throughout the city's MS4 area. Four is upgrades at the main wastewater plant to implement enhanced filtration also known as tertiary treatment. And five installation of a 300,000 gallon underground CSO storage tank at Callahan Park to manage flows to the Pine Street CSO. Now our preferred portfolio also includes enhancements to stormwater maintenance programs like street sweeping, catch basin cleaning, things like that, as well as some programming for residential retrofit incentives. And while these items don't explicitly count towards our regulatory objectives they do recognize the host of other pollutants contained in stormwater. So where does this leave us in terms of regulatory compliance? Well when you break down each project category by how much phosphorus removal it can achieve this is what the visual looks like. What you see is that even though the stormwater projects were proposing to implement your substantial they still wouldn't get us our basic phosphorus goal without the support of that substantial investment at the main wastewater treatment facility. And this is where I really want to reiterate a critical benefit to using integrated planning which is the use of an integrated phosphorus target. Now strictly speaking the TMDL would have us meet the reduction goals for wastewater and developed lands independently of each other. This approach allows us the flexibility to meet an integrated wastewater allocation using a variety of strategies with consideration of what's most cost effective and what's most beneficial for our community. Further beyond that integrated planning also allows us to implement these solutions over a slightly longer timeline. Going through this process has allowed us to schedule projects in a way that frontloads our implementation period with the projects that will achieve the greatest water quality benefits earlier on. Now our preferred portfolio does still include a significant number of CSO mitigation efforts including again the Pine Street CSO storage tank things that are happening right now with additional flow metering to refine our hydraulic and hydrologic model in areas with capacity concerns and also implementing basement surcharge programs. And it also again includes urban stream flow restoration projects where we you know are prioritizing FRP projects that have the highest cost or removal. Also prioritizing projects with the highest cost benefit and projects where grant support is available. So what's next? As some of you are already aware we went to Board of Finance and City Council on February 22nd to advance the preliminary phase for the Pine Street CSO tank, the pilot study for tertiary treatment at main plant, as well as the enhanced H&H model for our collection system. That project in particular is going to provide really critical data to support both the first two projects I mentioned and a significant number of other projects included in this plan. And we're also working to finalize the integrated plan report and incorporate feedback that DEC provided at the end of 2021. And once that's complete DEC will begin developing an integrated permit which will go through a public notice process similar to other permits at the state issues. And if all goes well we'll be starting construction on some of these components hopefully over the next couple of years. Megan back to you. Yep just a quick closing slide. When we start to add the infrastructure ask plus what we're going to need to do over the next couple of years or 10 to 20 years with integrated planning we are looking at a very large number. It's why rate payer affordability is key. We are not alone communities across the country. The graph shows that pretty steadily all US cities are experiencing increases in utility bills and it is because people are having to tackle infrastructure as well as these new regulatory challenges. So I think with that we think that's the end of our presentation. We'd love to answer any questions or take any feedback that you may have. We also have a copy of the current report up on our website. So burlingtonbt.gov forward slash water forward slash integrated plan and or you can also reach out to Megan or I directly at any time. Yeah great thank you all for the presentation. I know that these these slides have been posted some draft version of them has been posted on the sporting material for this commission meeting as well. Thank you for getting that out there. Yeah we'll open up to fellow commissioners for discussion at this time. Check in with the commissioner Kennedy on your mind here. Thank you so much for your presentation. As a recent EVM grad I studied environmental studies and talked so much about stormwater infrastructure and it's super interesting to see like actually be getting done while I'm like living here still. And yeah I don't have a ton of questions honestly. I guess one one thing that came to mind was in regards to like rain gardens and like that type of stormwater infrastructure how is that being like how is the location of that being determined what sort of model is being used for that? Well we cite those with a number of in a number of ways. So the series of gardens that we implemented last summer that we installed last summer in the south end were cited in those areas because they are within an area of the collection system that contributes to Pine Street CSO and they have appropriate soil conditions to promote infiltration. So that's probably the primary driver is that A they're in an area that we actually need to achieve stormwater reductions in and B is that the soil conditions are favorable. So we're looking for sandy soils to a decent depth. If we're doing subsurface infiltration we have to get a full eight feet which really isn't possible anywhere in the city other than the old north end. And then you know we're also looking for a good separation to groundwater and things like that. So the other driver would be other projects that the city is doing such as the main like the st. Paul project or the main street great streets right. We take any sort of large scale road reconstruction as an opportunity for our staff to look and see what are the opportunities. And sometimes we pass them up because the soils aren't great and it's just not going to be a good bang for the buck. But for others it has it has paid dividends. Yeah I guess that's all I have for questions. I hope that we can continue to improve our infrastructure here. I know it's such a pain to have to pay so much money for something that's absolutely critical. But I'm excited to see that everyone is so enthusiastic about it. We have lots of enthusiasm here. If we could chart we could get paid for our enthusiasm. We wouldn't be asking the right payers for money. Thank you. Vice-chair on your welcome. Okay. Oh thanks Megan you know I love listening to you and your team talk about water infrastructure. So just a couple just a couple clarifiers really. Martin you had mentioned 7600 feet of water pipe rehab and 4800 feet of collection pipe rehab. What percentage? 48 thousand. 48,000. Oh yes you're right. Sorry. 48,000. What percentage of the total is that? I mean are we is it because it seems like you know especially the 48,000 out of the 48,000 seems like a lot but what percentage of the total is that how much more do we need to do? Sure. For the water I'm a little bit more off the top of my head. We have roughly 110 miles of water. So something of that magnitude is about 1% and keeping at that rate that's a good goal to at least be achieving you know 1% every year and kind of keeping up with that. We've done more in the last few years as well. The sewer and stormwater since we haven't done as much. Megan may have the percent but. I think if I'm recalling you know we roughly it's like 57 miles of sewer I think and maybe 56 and it's roughly the same because it's largely based on the streets. So even if you just assume 110 the 48,000 is like nine miles. So it's a chunk. It's the worst chunk. We went through a whole process to look at the 2020 we filmed 20% of our system based on sort of risk or consequence of failure and then of that chunk that we filmed we're tackling tackling those pipes but it's a we got to keep going type effort so that we don't let those grades continue to slip. Now that's great. I just wanted to get a sense of we'll get to the exact we'll get to the exact number because it's a good metric for us to have anyway. Okay that's okay that's fine. I wasn't you know not to keep you changing but but this sense of this is where we are this is the progress that we expect to make and kind of we're plugging along and I like what you said that we're kind of dealing with the kind of most risky challenging ones first. So no thank you. You also talked about this stormwater outfall outfall improvements which is the term I wasn't familiar with until this evening but but I understood your slides and so dealing with having that help the slope stabilization especially along Manhattan Drive is fantastic right because that's that bang for the buck impacts a lot of other infrastructure that public works overseas. You also mentioned six other high risk areas. Is there like then a priority list of how to tackle those and is it based on kind of funding risk etc? Yeah we have a we have a we have a scoring framework that's been developed over the last several years and has recently been updated by our new asset manager Rocky Vogler so yeah the the next the next round of outfalls is based on a number of criteria specifically surrounding risk so risk of failure and consequence of failure. Great that's all I have great work folks thanks. Great thank you. Commissioner Overby. I also love hearing all this details about the water and the wastewater and the stormwater stuff but I have a couple quick questions um one is sort of detail what is the the CSO GSI Olmorth and item that was on one of your slides? It's sort of near to the one about the Manhattan Drive outfall. I'm just wondering is that one of the outfall areas along Manhattan Drive? No that's that's actually the next phase of the projects that we came to you guys about last spring I believe um remember when we I think we came last spring to have parking adjustments done in the south end for a series of rain garden projects this is the next phase of that so that was a million dollar grant that we we got at the end of 2018 um that it was a significant grant award that kind of flew under the radar but um we constructed the series of gardens in the south end last year and then the next phase is going to be um two subsurface systems on Rose and School Street um in the old north end. We have completed designs for several others but um we don't have enough grant funding to do all of them so um we'll be kind of answers the question though that that they're on Rose and School Street and they're some subsurface kind of treatment okay there's subsurface in there they would be helping to continue any or to uh reduce the somewhat infrequent but they are still occurring discharges to North Champlain and Park Street there's CSOs there on either side of the Beltway and those occasionally go off and so we're just chipping away chipping away every year trying to reduce the number of times that those go off. Yes I'm familiar with the one on the on the east side of man of the of the Beltway. I didn't know it was on the other side so yeah that answers that um and one question uh when when when these rain gardens get put in what is the protocol for keeping them cleaned out um is that a partnership with the parks department or is that a uh DPW thing because I know I've had a comment from somebody who lives on Grant Street about how the one that's there is um not well maintained and so I think they're great I'm just asking what the procedure is in the protocol for keeping them maintained. We have a contractor actually that um takes care of those gardens if there's an issue with the one on Grant Street um they should contact us and let us know because we do have a contractor that's been taking care of them and James Sherard or stormwater coordinator does oversee that. Or C-click fix if that's easier for people. So there is a contract so so that that should be they should call uh water research who should they call? Uh they can submit it through C-click fix. Okay so C-click fix because it's it definitely is not being maintained um and I walk by there quite a bit so I will relay that information. I think it's a work in progress as we develop those contracts too we're trying to figure out the right amount of frequency and probably certain gardens need more love and attention than others just based on you know traffic that goes by and trash that accumulates so it's it's good feedback for us to hear because you guys are our eyes and ears out in the community. Yeah and I just didn't know I mean it would really be helpful if people did know because all I hear is complaints why aren't you doing something about it and I'm like well you know I don't I didn't know the procedure and since we're going to be putting in a lot more it would be great if we've had a way to publicize what people should do uh because I know somebody who's on that street who feels like she has to keep planning it up and readjusting the plants and anyway um you wouldn't one of your slides talks about the systems the thing about the risk systems what's the definition of a system that you're using? Um I know you said small ones big ones but yeah I mean it was just more sort of a self-contained unit like a clarifier or a uh the belt filter press um it was a it's a it's a cursory quick way to kind of try to quantify it I just wanted I wanted to make sure that folks knew that not all systems would cost the same amount like you might have one system that cost five million dollars to replace and another one that's you know a half a million um so I've been thinking about that graph and maybe there's a way of doing it based on money you know dollars needed in each grade or something but happy to get any feedback on how we could better use that sort of I guess a question about what systems meant so it made it hard for me to get understanding of that chart I know I can imagine it's hard to figure out how to present it um two last questions uh you mentioned that you might there's a basement surcharge prevention program what was that? That's actually um yeah we need to probably change the wording on that that's when uh people who's um who have subsurface sorry or basement like base showers sinks um wash or dryer connections or washer connections any plumbing fixture that's in the basement and people when there's large rain events water sewage comes into their basement per code they're technically supposed to have a device that prevents that from happening we recognize a lot of people have inherited houses where that's not the case and we'd like to try to figure out how to help bring those systems up to code um because of all of the combined sewer overflows that happen having one happen in your basement is probably the most public health um you know challenge so you so that's not making a surcharge payment you know a homeowner who has that problem but it's a basement it's the stop it's the it's the back up sewage backups into basement that are related to storm events okay sewage backups can happen for other reasons but yeah got it yeah i think that was discussed a lot on cliff street when that whole uh sidewalk was getting put in um and then one last thing um can you i know i've heard this about the rebate to help people scope their sewer connection can you just sort of help people know what that is because i discussed it with somebody on my street but you're talking about when people actually get the company to put a camera through their sewer to see if there's a problem you have a program maybe that people can get a rebate for the cost of that yeah folks can get up to $250 for their sewer inspection back so um most most outfits charge right around $250 um but if they schedule that inspection and have that work done they pay the contractor and then they can submit that back to us we have an online form um they can also call customer care to ask any questions but yeah folks can get up to $250 back for those inspections um in addition to that they can also get up to $75 back for purchasing water sense um certified fixtures so toilets sinks things like that that save water they can get rebates for those as well and it's not one or the other they could get a they could get both great well that those are my questions thank you very much thank you commissioner over me all right thank you uh commissioner bar hey thanks um I reviewed the slides and I really appreciate the presentation because it really flushed it out for me and and I actually have no questions such a great job appreciate it thanks thank you thank you I also don't have any questions but um as I am often really uh kind of taken by how you present not just in um you know in in one of our meetings but just kind of how you frame this particular issue it's obviously really sobering um thinking about the challenges not just economic but the the bigger challenges and I just wanted to give a a couple of pieces of feedback I really appreciate the fact that you um lay out not only the the short and medium term cost of doing this work but also the cost of not doing this work and so I think that laying out what disinvestment historically uh has meant what deferring these kinds of costs means in the longer term I think is really important I'm actually um I mentioned to my fellow commissioners I'm out here on the west coast in the city of Vancouver uh British Columbia and ironically I just had a meeting with a number of city planners um and they were talking about you know they're obviously a city on a much much larger scale but they're talking about a six billion dollar investment in um sewage and wastewater infrastructure over the next four years including a 65 percent rate increase for residents here and so you know in your slides there where you lay out that this you know you kind of talk about it briefly that this is something that we are not dealing with uh individually but this is something that's uh to to bring up that question of systems again is like you know we're paying for a lot of decades of underinvestment um and so so I think it's really good that you uh continue to emphasize that I also liked that in your um your report here that you're you're laying out it may be that there are other points um where we're seeing more of the the problem um being produced in terms of lake health but I like the fact that you zeroed out kind of okay this is what we as a city need to focus on so I just thought that was really effective um I I completely agree with you of course this is a very difficult time to to bring forward um to residents here's another cost we need to think about but this is a cost we need to think about to to echo commissioner kennedy's kind of points like you need to deal with this um so um so just again real props for the way in which you presented this um there's no easy way to to present some of this but I think um yeah just I really appreciate the the the clarity that was in um in this framework so thank you thank you that means a lot thank you um yeah man again I also echo some sentiment here really appreciate the presentation one question on the on the risk scores uh you noted there were some in um you know looking out for what we've done in the past couple years looking ahead to the next couple years where the the counts and the like dnf category are actually increasing did you elaborate on that I think I caught that those are things that like weren't the top of the list for fixing but there have since continued to age and our um yeah so for instance the things that are slipping or those bars are getting bigger because something that was in the c category right now that we can't we don't have enough money to tackle keeps cascading down it gets older and therefore you know being old is one of our measures of uh failure risk there's obviously other things like has it actually broken or vibrations starting to appear there are more robust ways of zeroing in true uh failure a lot of our systems are so dang old that even them even being considered in the c category I'm like whoo um so I don't know if I'm answering your question I can I can share sort of the tables that were used and you can actually see that something in this year you know as a c and then it moves to the d category because we weren't able to get it back in the a category yeah that's um oh thank you for that I'm just sort of panoramic yeah I don't think we need to say about how to present it but there is that story of like if we didn't make the investments that we did you know the expected slippage would be you know all the b's are in d now the c's are in f etc and some of those we've sort of course corrected and shifted to the good side and some we haven't as much so I don't I'd like to stare at that a little bit more offline and it's a lot of what goes into um how much hand-wringing we're going to do over what we asked for in november right because we could ask for a smaller number but then we're just still like the hole is continuing to be dug do you go for a bigger number with the hopes that federal funding is going to come through um there's a lot of different calculus that goes into that but every time we ask first every time we get or end up asking for something that is less than our true number we are running that risk of those things continuing to slide and we're just going to have to deal with it later and we might have emergency costs and with costs of inflation we have to put that into effect like pushing something out five years it could be twice as expensive then as it is now um so it's going to be a fun little financial exercise yeah I just wanted to add one thing on to that is that the infrastructure at the wastewater plants it's a lot more mechanical you know versus pipes and um infrastructure in the right of way which has more of a 50 to 100 year lifespan infrastructure at the wastewater plants a lot of the systems um are aged more for like 20 or 30 years so that slippage will happen quicker I kind of glossed over at one of the things we're excited about from an innovation standpoint was that consolidation of yeast plant with main plant which would turn a lot of the assets at yeast plants into potentially longer life assets and convert some of its um value into an actual force main like a collection system asset that gets it over to main plant and that's where I was talking about uh looking at the numbers and making the case one if we do that some of that stuff could be paid for over a longer time period and two what we do now could say the rate payers 20 years from now and 50 years from now because they don't then have to upgrade three plants they only have to upgrade two plants and then they might have to make modest investments at the new pump station that would replace yeast plant so just to try to share we're trying to try to really figure out how to slice the cake in a way that um you know maybe even if it if it does cost a little bit more now if it's going to save our burlington generations a lot of money over the long term we have to look at that right we got to make smarter decisions than we did in the past yeah I appreciate that thank you then another one that didn't um I feel like yeah I missed the story or the connection a bit was on the proposed phosphorus performance chart and uh you know you do anything with a now but maybe in the you know as you sort of work the the roadshow moving forward there I you know I gathered that there was a a gap in the phosphorus reduction load goal that's remaining on the order of about a thousand ish and the red the colored bars at the bottom added up to like 2,500 ish you can maybe when you're telling it sort of connect that a little bit more and and show where the 2,500 came from are you talking about the why if our goal was 1,100 that we are actually going to be reducing like 2,600 it was slide 33 there's like a 238 percent of Burlington average target yep so that was and maybe we can do a better job of linking it when I went into my spiel about why 1,100 pounds wasn't necessary 1,100 pounds every single year what I was trying to say is the 238 exceeding it and and meeting 230 38 percent of our goal is what will hopefully give us the buffer that in those extremely wet years when our phosphorus load is actually more than annual average our technology will still be able to meet permit right so we need we need 1,100 plus this buffer to deal with that wet weather variability when we do our when we do our pilot study because this is one of my areas of risk or concern I want it when we do our pilot study we may be looking at what the cost would be and the feasibility of doing partial what we call dual use treatment dual use treatment would be filtering both the normal wastewater flow that goes through as well as the flow that goes through our wet weather treatment system we don't think we need it we need to treat all of our wet weather treatment system but we wonder if we may have to treat a little bit of it just to give us that added climate climate resiliency I don't know if I'm answering your question or not no thank you yeah yeah that does answer my question otherwise it's like why are we spending so much money if if 100% is good you know you can take that to the bank and the thing is we can't because of the variability I know by the way the extreme storm events have been sort of unfortunately more common in recent years than in back a decade or two I like it yeah no thank you for that that review all right nothing further on my end I'll open up to public comment at this time are we going to talk about the pod situation in not on this item it's more so some more specifically if there's any public comments regarding the clean water resiliency plan welcome those at this all right chair and bushers not there still come on we asked we asked a bunch of questions and the presentation for the pods comes up right after this seven seeing none I will close out public comment on this item and there is no action requested on this item as a way so you know thank you very much for the the presentation this is good stuff I appreciate the updates we're going to be restarting wastewater plant tours we think it's important that the community get into the plant and actually see the stuff that we're going to be asking for money to fix so stay tuned on that I'm sure director Spencer will loop you guys in once we pick our official day glad to hear that thank you okay let me do a plant near you well excellent all right moving forward thank you yeah thanks so much move forward item six on the agenda shelter pod proposal and Elmwood Avenue surface lot welcome presentation from public work staff for CEDAW staff here yes I believe it's CEDAW staff here we'll kick this agenda item off thank you Brian Pine I'm the director of the community and economic development office and with me tonight is Samantha Dunn this is director for community works and Marcella Gange who is our community development manager I will try to provide a higher higher level overview of the process to date and what engagement is coming in in the coming days and weeks the process for selecting this site and we will provide the list of the other sites that were considered was to develop a matrix that was shared with staff from the department of public works department of parks recreation waterfront and several other departments to get feedback on what are the factors that will ensure hopefully the best outcomes for both the people who will be residing in the shelters pods as well as for the overall community and we can we will provide that list of all the sites so that question was asked previously was what other locations were considered the issues that were raised around sort of management staffing and supervision all those issues we will be addressing and another appointment we are not prepared to go into great detail because given that the commission is primarily focused on the question of decommissioning the parking lot as your decision point we want to stay focused on those issues but with regards to public process the process to date has been meeting with downtown business owners and managers and property owners that occurred yesterday of course the public works commission meeting tonight depending on the results of this meeting we're going to the city council this coming Monday to be followed by a presentation that is going to be made before the words two and three neighborhood planning assembly on April 14th as well we are planning several neighborhood meetings at the neighborhood level and spoke just yesterday with the property owners and managers of the most adjacent property to the south of the parking lot the O'Brien properties to talk about holding a meeting in their building with with residents and the additional meeting in addition to that we would like to propose holding if we can in the community room meeting space at the nearby Unitarian church as a good location you can be neighbors to answer questions to your concerns to hopefully you know ensure that this is a location that is both welcoming but also is that we minimize disruption and impact on nearby properties so I want to give that overview on the process that we've engaged in today Samantha's going to work with Jeff had to talk through the content of the memo and the plan for relocation parking and Marcela right now is going to explain some of the other public engagement and outreach that has taken place today so I just want to pass the the microphone to Marcela and I think in this case how is the volume can you hear us okay it's kind of echoey she's hearing she has a hearing issue so that's why we move yeah oh okay I'm sorry it's we'll try and keep the volume up though it seems like the volume may work if we use use what I like to call in our house the outside voice so thank you thank you hi hello everyone I can you demonstrate that you can hear me because I'm quite softly spoken so I know that sometimes folks have a problem understanding me I'm sure that's the only reason it's nothing to do with my exam I've been working with CEDO for about six years on a number of different kinds of grants mostly equity-based projects and for the last couple of years I've been working with CEDO on our continuum of care grants and working with the continuum of care and working on a lot of projects through the pandemic that are related to supporting folks who are experiencing homelessness and with the objective of ending homelessness I've worked with Paul Dragon who will be hearing from shortly from CVO who's as the operating partner for the Community Resource Centre we established that during the pandemic as a daytime ruling centre it's become much more than that which is why we renamed it as the Community Resource Centre it's a low barrier space that folks are able to go to access much more than just food and drink but access resources housing advice and other kind of essential because we through that relationship we we're getting a lot of information that's in feeding in and informing the development of this project and we are also working with the various outreach teams that we're working around the city that are doing either work with Victor on sheltered or Victor in hotels that are part of the general assistance emergency shelter program and gathering information from them this afternoon we had a really good discussion with the group of outreach workers about to kind of get their views on this project and to develop input and further input on that and we've also had additional insight into folks with lived experience as well to inform the direction of this project but the kind of the initial development of the ideas really came from the requests that we were hearing from the community of folks who are experiencing homelessness we had very clearly that people needed alternative types of shelter access to alternative types of shelter and there were folks who were able to succeed in the hotels they were looking for different types of shelter there are different reasons for that you know maybe couples want access to to spaces and we'll be able to we'll be able to do that within this project folks with pets there are lots of different reasons why people might be wanting to to come to this place so we're really trying to fulfilling this between the hotels between the traditional shelter buildings and but of course the multi-term view is working with people together into coordinated entry if that's what they're desiring into development housing we will be continuing that kind of outreach and those conversations and I think if you need to talk as well about like the I know we're not talking about the operations of the shelter but what we'll be looking for it's kind of it's having a community meeting group that's around the shelter of the community resource center this is a model that's being used around these pilot villages around the country we bring in different stakeholders so businesses local faith groups so the new church would be a good example of that community members and neighbors staff volunteers and the folks that are living at the site as well to have a space where people are able to talk with each other to solve any initial problems that are coming but on my side more importantly that they're able to access opportunities and bring ideas in and you know it's a way that people can contribute to really embracing and supporting this community so we you know we just that we want people to know that from the outset this is the kind of approach that we really want you to take as these projects are established on the site thank you so happy to have you yeah thanks for selling our and that was a good overview I'm going to try and refocus us back on sort of the business that you're in tonight the reason that we're talking at all to this commission about this project is because the site that was selected as the top priority site of course was the element of parking lot this commission has jurisdiction over the use of that parking lot and we're really here to make a request of this commission to temporary decommission this parking lot for parking for up to a period of up to 36 months no longer to support this project and I have been working close with Jeff on making sure we can that the city has the ability to accommodate the people who are currently using parking lot and other facilities we know that that is a case there is the ability to accommodate them and there's an additional request to this commission to be able to accommodate them in the garage the existing rate that they're paying for their permits what do we ask them to make that move and have you to answer any questions with Jeff about sort of those two motions great yeah thank you for that that over Jeff is there anything on your head you want to add at this point no I think Samantha summed it up nicely here I'm just here to answer questions you might have support the project I can't great thank you so yeah as I stated earlier our commission's role here is to the parking and there's an ask here to adjust how that parking is done other you know aspects of this project time for another another meeting on another evening let's say that by way of introduction here and open up to my fellow commissioners for discussion at this point start with the vice chair on the elbow thank you so on the one hand this seemed like okay this could be straightforward you know our role in the commission looking at this sort of transaction of infrastructure temporarily decommissioning the elmwood car park for for these pods so on the surface that seems just yes or no right but because it's trying to address the city problem of homelessness and a low barrier community that gets incumbent upon us to ask all the kind of residual questions certainly as some of the public have brought up at the start of this and we have gotten some emails I think one concern and I'm keenly aware that it's hard to do outreach until you get permission because you had to come to us to come to the commission to ask permission for this change of use so that you could actually then move forward on the pod community so how do you start outreach without a done deal so I recognize the challenges that the CEDA was facing right now and also recognize the concerns of the community members who live around there and just to kind of reiterate some of the comments that were made there are there are problems with homelessness and mental health issues many of us see these on a daily basis and I think wondering and asking at what point will the community have a better sense what the oversight is going to look like for this community recognizing that the folks who are going to be residing in whatever pod community wherever it's located are in essence our neighbors right and and how then can this system help them be good neighbors so that communication between the residents of the pod and the residents who live there and the landlords needs to be really really needs to be key the pod community I hope is held to the same standards you know that I am I'm not allowed to have a fire in my backyard unless it's in my barbecue I noise ordinance I should know this is it like 10 o'clock 7 to 10 those sort of neighborly respectful policies that we have as a city that we all comply with that those standards are also held for the neighbors in the pod so I don't know if you can answer some of some of that again I know it's hard to answer because you don't have the definite yes but I think to address some of the concerns that the public has brought up and certainly that we are hearing safety as well I mean I walked by today I walked by that car park twice looking at some of the apartments nearby and again just like kind of eyeballing it as a mom thinking like where you know where there were signs of kids my kids who are in the Burlington school district either going to BCL at the Old North End Center by St. Joe's or downtown VHS recognizing that we have young people as well and wanting to be safe so so how can CEDO help address some of these concerns for our neighbors I'm going to touch to the first one and then Marcel is going to join me here and provide some response to your questions the oversight plan is something that we are in the process of really developing it is it is developing and evolving the goal here is that the facility would be operational on July 1st and so we're trying to ensure that we are really deliberate and thoughtful about about both oversight and supervision and so we are engaging in discussions with potential organizations that would manage this facility and when we talk about oversight I think that's what we're mostly talking about is you know how is the behavior going to be monitored and ensured that people abide by a certain set of standards a code of conduct if you will all of that is very much part of the work we're doing but we're doing it simultaneously with the other efforts so we don't have great detail or granularity on that we just have a commitment to you know to really be focused on developing a management plan and an operational plan that again ensures that this facility is you know minimizes the impact is to the greatest extent possible and I think Marcel will talk a little bit about how to ensure that residents are good neighbors yeah well more than either also just I just wanted to reinforce that the state has you know there are statewide emergency shelter standards so this isn't you know I kind of we established something and then we think about what the operational plan will be as much as there are standards for this we're going to be seeking funding from from earlier for I'm sorry for the officer the officer of economic opportunity at state level for some of the staffing costs of the of the site and within that we will require to to operate within those emergency shelter standards and those those standards are around you know kind of how what the prioritizations are for folks coming into the shelter how how people you know the record of keeping requirements how people are signed in how how the shelter is operated and and then and also the discharge if there are very there are very strict requirements around discharge and having kind of fair procedures that the many associate with voluntary or unvoluntary discharge from the site so you know as I said we're not making up the rules as we go over there there there is a framework and set of standards that will be working with them and I would just add I just wanted to one thing you touched on was following the same and like rules and regulations of all of the other neighbors in the neighborhood have to follow and that's absolutely the intent of this project if there's no fires there will be no fire you know like all of those things again the site will be staffed 24 hours a day and there'll be ongoing and Brian has laid out a series of process for community meetings before this project opens for operations and Marcella was talking about a process of engaging with neighbors and others in the community throughout the operation of this temporary facility so that both all of the neighbors in the neighborhood can help this community be good neighbors and vice versa because I think you know we can all learn from each other when we take the time to engage with one another and that's the intent of how this facility would be operated hopefully that answers your questions yes just a couple more things real quick I think to echo maybe Sharon Bush or I mentioned this earlier the need for responsiveness so that this isn't someone's you know woken up at two o'clock in the morning because of this noise and there's no response and I know we're dealing with police stuffing issues and feel for this but when you're working at two o'clock in the morning you don't want to have to go down and figure out what that is if it's coming from that community or any neighbor so recognizing that responsiveness and really underscoring the safety of the residents I can appreciate their level of concern this is I think a really exciting and innovative way to begin to deal with our housing issues and homelessness but it's unknown for these neighbors and so I think recognizing that acknowledging it and then addressing those concerns and having that feedback I think would be important and I think you know I wonder for the commission and this maybe a discussion for later is what then what kind of reporting do we need back as we transfer the this infrastructure if we vote to transfer this infrastructure what kind of reporting do we need and on what basis to see how this project is going again if we are stewards of the infrastructure so that's maybe a kind of a broader question maybe for Director Spencer or Chair Hogan and that's it it's a great point about accountability for the operation of this facility and the goal being that this is a temporary approach this is not intended to be a long-term approach and that the we need to establish what are the benchmarks and the metrics we're going to be measuring and reporting on and that reporting will be done you know in a fully public transparent way with at the city council so we will share that certainly share that with the commission as part of our dissemination of information and you know I hope this is I believe we can be successful this model has worked elsewhere but we're prepared to make adjustments and make course corrections if the need arises and if the experience shows that we need to change the way we're doing it thank you for that thank you that's all all right to Secretary I had extensive communication with Cedar Director Pine and I shared that as in a document which obviously got distributed late to you today but so I'm going to assume nobody has had an opportunity to see it and I and I have concerns and they were expressing my questions and prime my first question yes you know maybe Public Works role is in the Public Works Department the Public Works Commission is just the role of is this you know a good thing to change that parking lot to homeless shanty town and have we adequately provided for the people that are currently you know paying parking parking for parking there primarily the federal building employees so maybe that people think that's all we should be thinking about and I I sort of agree with Vice Chair O'Neill Vivonco that I really want to look at a in a in a more holistic way the questions that I had that would have helped me to feel more comfortable about this I think that the concept of the shelter pods is an excellent concept I I think unfortunately I do not think that the concern I have and the questions I originally asked were of the housing services the homeless services folks how you know who was consulted about this particular location and and second how many of the people that say we're living at the Sears Lane encampment or other homeless people were actually consulted about the locations where they might want these pods to be located because my sense is that that that we are sort of housed people that are making a decision about houseless people wanting to live in that sort of a clustered arrangement in a parking lot with these pods and I honestly don't feel like that information has been adequately assessed whether or not this is really going to be something that the people that are intended to be living there will choose to want to live there so my I was actually very concerned when I learned that that was you know and honestly you know Director Pine was very honest with me and said that they in the in the interest of doing this very quickly there was no conversations with these folks from Sears Lane that have been you know evicted from that location and there weren't conversations about the location or part of the decision making wasn't done through the social the social service homeless population the services so I my my my proposal would be actually and I'm going to just propose this and I'm going to continue we want to continue the discussion but that we really need to have more information about this and as I do hear the discussion is still going on about how it's going to be managed and maintained and who's going to do it but really the primary the my primary concern from the start was that people who are homeless have unusual ways of choosing to live that they may not find that an attractive way of living and I could be wrong but I really do not think that we have thought that out one of my questions and in the context of the communication that I did have was communication from the downtown businesses and managers and their input on this and their question is one of mine was why don't we space these pads in other in spaced out locations where where you know where people might find that they would actually prefer to live and and so the answer was well this is just the best place for water and wastewater and connections to things so I feel like that needs to be done and I feel like I can't make a decision of deciding to approve this without feeling like that we really have a chance of success with it so that information you know to me needs to be part of what we need as a commission before we make this kind of a decision that's just my opinion I did ask about the other nine locations so those are in the communication director pine did give me that so you can get that if you want to know where those locations are so I know that was asked in the public forum and I I assume I think director pine you were going to actually mention those and I could read them but they are in the paperwork that I communicated to the other commissioners I did have specific questions that were related that are follow up one of them the first one is will the community resource center be relocated I understand it will and and are you planning to like build a new facility that will replace the services that are now available at the behind the you know in the community resource center there at the veterans the VA building you know that'll have the it's a Legion hall I guess they're on south news so that's my first question are you planning to build a replacement for the facility the community resource center that will have you know the same sort of services and I'm not sure if they have showers and laundry facilities and down there but that's my first question sort of being young the community resource center has been operating for the last really since as Marcel said at the beginning of the pandemic at the location of the VFW on southwest the avenue that lease is coming up and ending and they do not desire to continue because there's going to be a redevelopment of that property and that redevelopment work needs to begin so that that is not a permanent location for the community resource center and actually Paul dragon is the executive director of CBOEO that operates the community resource center is here with us tonight you can talk a little bit about the desire to have a a higher quality location higher quality facility and so the plan is to actually develop a modular unit and it will be quite a bit larger than the pods that are planned to be located and co-located with the pods on Albin Avenue and that would be you know a staff facility with the range of supports and services that one can get at the community resource center today which serves a really important function in providing people with really basic day-to-day resources and warmth and other needs but also connection to housing assistance search housing search assistance health care meals all the things that folks need to to at least have a level of dignity that I think everyone would agree is is essential living in a civilized site so the community resource center will be relocated and included as a co-located facility here and I just want to answer the point that commissioner overby raised about multiple locations which I get I think I understand the concept there but we also have an obligation as public officials to be mindful of the public dollar and the costs of creating multiple facilities not only has much bigger capital costs for infrastructure but the operating costs of staffing multiple facilities is something that we're really mindful of so we're really trying to be mindful of those facts and I think the last thing I want to say is I think the overarching question that you've raised is sort of like the field of dreams if we build it will they come I don't think anyone has a career but first of all however what we've seen in other jurisdictions across the country is you don't just build the pods and say come and get them you provide real access to a quality living environment with management with structure with security with all the amenities but also made it really clear that there are certain expectations about what type of behavior will be acceptable and so you've created an environment you know sort of mutual respect for one another and I think Paul can also speak to the idea that homeless population will not will reject this location or the type of housing that we're on the shelter that we're creating I think Paul if he can be promoted can speak to some of these issues because he has a more day-to-day experience with this than any of us so if Paul can speak that would be great if he's now a panelist so he's ready to go Hi everybody, thanks for having me yeah so Paul Dragunin with the Shepp Lane Valley Office of Economic Opportunity we've been providing services at the VFW since its inception I think as Brian said that is coming to an end very soon we have seen a tremendous need for the Community Resource Center we provide hot meals there every day in January we provided 3,000 meals to people so just an incredible need we have housing advocates there computers people are able to connect to benefits get into coordinated entries so they could start to access vouchers and also get connections to just other resources it's been really invaluable and there's been a tremendous sense of community built up there people go there to to make connections with each other we had a wedding there the other day two people chose to have a wedding at the Community Resource Center we have haircut clinics and vaccine clinics and we have medical services coming in so anyway I think it's providing a really valuable resource I was excited about the potential for a new Community Resource Center because we don't have showers at the new one there'd be an ADA shower there'd be a washer and a dryer which as you can imagine is a huge need it would be counseling space which we don't have now there'd be office space which we don't have now it would be much nicer newer more modern there'd be a deck people can get some fresh air you know our staff is very skilled at providing services and connecting with people I think you know we're not planning on we're planning on running the and operating the Community Resource Center we were not planning on doing that with the village I did think it was a good idea though to co-locate those two things since the folks at the village would have access not only to the Community Resource Center but we have a street outreach team with a mobile outreach unit that works and goes around to all the different encampments and they're often at the Resource Center to connect with people so we could leverage all the food we provide all the care we provide all the outreach we provide and if I think they'd have a lot more support is what I'm saying if it is co-located with the Community Resource Center that's what I think I think you make really good points about aggregating people together you know as folks who walk Community Integration we think that's so important and we know there have been very very large encampments with Sears Lane is a perfect example there were 30 people there and there's been other very large encampments where people have come together mostly for the feeling of safety and not wanting to be isolated and making connections so I worry about that because we always want people in scattered sites integrated into the community however this is kind of an emergency issue we have homeless numbers increasing a lot of it due to the pandemic so I think to Marcella's point it's like an emergency housing program and I think the time limit is geared until we get more housing stock in place 36 months where we're supposed to get a lot more housing in place it may be more of our homeless infrastructure that would give us some time so I I respect everybody's point here and concerns I think they're super valid and I think outreach is really really important to the neighborhood in the community and mutually reinforcing how do we do this work so that everybody's connecting with each other people in the village and people in the surrounding area so everybody feels a part of this I do think I know our outreach folks like we didn't specifically ask about a village I think anecdotally people know that our folks know that a lot of people are just staying outside we see it every morning as they come in come into the community resource center cases of frostbite in the winter people hungry you know it's just on and on victims and survivors of domestic violence so anecdotally there is a need for sure there's no doubt because otherwise people are staying you know either an aggregate encampments or scattered encampments but there's been kind of I know our team is not you know we just recently learned of this as well but we do have the resource center where we see how people are living how they're struggling how they're trying to connect and I know there's a need for emergency shelter I think it's a great question is this is this the kind of housing and I think the answer is it's not the kind of housing that CVOEO wants or anybody wants right I think the city's goal the mayor's goal is to house everybody eventually and permanently and it's very sad that we're just not in that place right now just if I can just add to that thanks very much Paul for talking to the operations and the work we've been doing I've wrote the CRC for the last two years and in case I wasn't here before you know it's the information that we gain from our partnership with CVOEO with CRC it's the information that we gain from other partners that are working in shelter provision and housing provision and also in outreach that's really informed the development and kind of framing this response we created this because of the information that we've received from folks experiencing homelessness and public service providers and the shelter providers and housing providers this isn't a prominent solution it isn't permanent housing it's intended to be informal until you get to the point of some of these permanent housing developments being completed which we see will be coming in the next two to three years you know as as our plans are being expended across the state to to develop housing there was another point oh sorry and it's also more that I don't go around folks responses to it we've you know I I've had one person already directly ask me how are we getting out of the lens to to get into the shelters and I know that from from another shelter there have been two or three people again I'm already asking so as people are starting to to to talk about it we're you know already getting folks asking asking how we're going to be doing our prioritizations thank you for that for that context Mr. Dragon as well can we start over as I guess you want to summarize from the question well the question was still is the plan then to build a structure for the replacement of the community resource center that has showers and and washing facilities and a meeting room in place to do feeding in the parking lot we're going to the plan is to design and construct a modular community resource center that will be placed in the parking lot and when that's no longer the right location for it can be moved to another location so so it will be connected okay so that's that answers that question and that's going to have shower and laundry facilities and those offices and a kitchen yeah okay the the one of the questions that I had is what you know I know you say you're still discussing what agencies are going to be responsible for managing this do you have so you don't have any commitments from anybody at this point or or do you have some signed commitments that I know the reason I'm asking the question is because nobody wanted to help manage the Sears Lane encampment so I'm just wondering how whether you have commitments from will be the ones that are hoping to be managing the rules sure the I think that I mean I'll use the tired expression but Sears Lane and Elwood Avenue are apples to oranges really they really aren't the same thing and the plan for Elwood Avenue is a you know a well thought out plan and it's proven elsewhere to work so we are talking with organizations to serve this role the CBOEO will continue in the role of staffing the community resource center but we're talking with other organizations and so I just leave it at that it's a wrap well yeah and I'm going to wrap it up with I had I've had other people suggest the the spacing out of the pods I know you've probably all heard of the mad housing the mad houses in Chicago which which which basically built the shelter pods and they placed them in the places where the houseless people were actually living so that they they could make their own little nest the way they wanted to make it in their own private way that they wanted to do it and and my concern is that again I'm I'm going to stop after this however I feel like we all as people that are housed are thinking up something that actually sounds great from the perspective of people who are home who have homes and thinking that this is going to be the solution for people that don't have them and and I spend quite a few time believe it or not I do speak with people that are homeless all the time and they they're they're they clearly have interest in having their own independence and their so they so we have different impression of their their choices in life and I don't presume to feel like making a a shanty village that is clean and tidy the way that I would want it perhaps is going to be appealing to the people so I really feel like we really need to do a better job of asking people and I do and that one of the suggestions was made to me spreading them around the community and making it so that there even a portion of them could be be rented you know like the Airbnb kind of thing that we're talking about that would pay for some of the other costs of managing them and not stigmatized people that are going to be living in this parking lot so that's where I'm at I really feel like we need more interaction with the people that might be proposed to live in these in this community so they can they can actually contribute to making it into a community that they want they wanted a community like Sears Lane that was working I don't think it was working for other people however we need to be able to integrate them and to making decisions about how they want to be housed that's my perception on this so that's my take on it thank you for indulging in my questions and thank you Brian for your your prompt response on everything and it would be helpful if you want to help people understand where the other locations are but the other commissioners do have that information I did share that with them thank you all right thank you commissioner votes thank you yeah I taking on this particular challenge I know we're as a commission really only focusing on the on the question at hand on our work at hand but as both of the previous commissioners I think rightly asked you know all the other questions that are kind of posed for us when I first saw this proposal I immediately was thinking about the Old North End community center when I where I do a lot of work with many of my community partners or my kid went to daycare and then I looked at the series of the other proposed locations and I was thinking about you know connections I have to each of those we live in a pretty small city there's there's really no place that we don't have some kind of connection with and we don't I think see the same kinds of questions that you've you've seen from public comment and that you've seen raised by fellow commissioners as well I don't know what the sequencing of all of this is you know you've you've sort of let off part of your own comments by saying you know you're not quite at the the space of saying giving us all the details that I think people you know understandably want and so I kind of understand that you know my sense is that until you have you know part of these decisions in place it's hard to move to the next one as I understand that that's where our role as a commission comes in in simply decommissioning this parking lot so I've got I have a couple of specific questions on those lines I did want to say that my my sense of the urgency of this because I've seen a couple of questions where people of have have raised you know what is the rush why is this coming up so quickly my sense certainly from a lot of the things that you have presented here there there is a rush this isn't something that we can simply sit and wait on and come up with the best possible solutions there you know that there are all kinds of reasons there are time pressures on here and I think perhaps you might restate some of those because I see even in public comment a couple of those questions have come up and I also appreciate that it's very clear as Marcella mentioned in her remarks that you are having conversations with a number of different people it may it may not have been at the speed that some people may have wanted but I appreciate that these are also ongoing this isn't just sort of a one and done so I just wanted to express my appreciation for that I guess the couple of questions you kind of answered one of them already in terms of the modular nature of the of the resource center that if and when other locations end up being whatever this ends up in the long run um that those kinds of resources could be moved elsewhere so that was one thing I I had kind of wondered about so I think that that's fairly clear just if you can confirm that the other thing is that you know you've kind of talked about this as a short term emergency you know kind of effort so what we are being asked to do in terms of the decommissioning I'm sorry if I missed this is this is there a time limit on this and is the intent then to move and I guess this is a question more for Jeff would we then move the whatever it is the the the people who are using it now the legal whatever would we be moving them back to this site so this would be decommissioned and then recommissioned so just a technical question on that front so those are just my my questions thanks the request is for a decommissioning of the lot for three years and a parking agreement in the Lakeview College Street Garage to house those parkers from Elmwood in the Lakeview College Street Garage for three years okay but then to to then move them back to that I was just I said simply that's okay all right okay so yeah yeah that was really it other than that I I mean I just don't there's no easy way to to deal with a situation like this that doesn't end up being either kind of a nimby is you know sort of like well we want to deal with this issue but we want to deal with it somewhere else and that's something that I've I've thought about like we keep telling the city to deal with this issue but if we come up with innovative solutions and all we find our problems with those attempts to you know act in good faith to deal with that how are we ever going to address these I I completely understand the concerns and I really echo a lot of a lot of what people want as assurances I have some faith that a lot of that is continuing to be worked out but you know I think we have to anyway that's it I'm just ranting at this point so thank you thank you Commissioner Rose Commissioner Kennedy yeah so a lot of my points have already been touched on which is great um I do just have one clarifying question left which I apologize if this is already been said or something but I did do a quick google search just to figure it out and the top articles didn't mention it will there be any sort of cost to the residents of these pods to stay there no no coming by our development costs are covered and the operating costs are covered by the federal funds as part of the American recovery plan act that the city is receiving this issue came out as the top ranked issue in the survey responses of almost four thousand surveys on dealing with homelessness was identified so this is this is in response to that that's perfect that's exactly what I want to hear um and then I did just want to touch on some of the public like the concerns in the public that we heard earlier and have seen in emails um regarding neighborhood safety by just emphasizing that the house's people in our community are already residents of our neighborhoods they're just living in far more dangerous and unstable uh conditions and providing this like type of housing even if it is just temporary is essential right now it is an emergency and we can work on long-term solutions while we provide that housing temporarily um so I'm fully in support of this proposition and thank you all right thank you uh so just a couple points on my end um this one I think you just touched on it director pine do you have a sense of the rough breakdown in the cost between like acquiring pods versus administering staffing what do we have a housing developer in our midst here so Samantha they can tell you how this breaks out yes so the right now the total development capital costs for the infrastructure um the 30 shelters the bathhouse unit will will provide six full bathrooms with sinks toilets and showers for the residents of the community um is estimated at about $750,000 the operating costs are estimated at about $850,000 over three years so I think as director pine stated some of those all of the capital costs would be covered by the ARPA funds the city council committed those funds to this product in February and a portion of the operating costs as well as marcella mentioned the majority of the operating costs would be covered through state grant funding through the office of economic opportunity for the community resource center we just anticipate another $250,000 to $300,000 of capital costs again that's to build a custom modular resource center that will be connected to power water and sewer designed to be energy efficient hopefully designed to produce some of its own energy and to best serve the population that Paul spoke eloquently to great thank you director we also recently received um 365,000 in congressional directed spending for the community resource center as a grant award that we had about last week we had to operate the community resource and that's a new term for your marcella no thank you and thanks for the reminder that um you know there was the community's surveys distributed last year you sounds like you got quite a number of responses and quite a number of responses emphasizing this need there the need that this this effort is addressing and i know that of course it's not going to be perfect it may not be a preferred housing option for everyone but i believe that is is a nice option for many it will be serving many people and i appreciate the city's commitment to continue to respond to needs and concerns as as they come up along the way here but uh yeah i think this is an exciting innovative option and in general we should be housing people and not vehicles so this is a this is a nice trade-off so it's it's not perfect but it is like a nice solution here that is all on my end uh unfortunately lost uh commissioner bar is feeling ill and uh had to step out with that i will close the commissioner discussion for now and open up public comments we do still have a number of attendees from the public here so Mr. Golding to help us navigate sign-ins and participants and i will ask members of the public who are interested in speaking to please keep their remarks briefed three minutes or less thanks chair hogan um there are folks online who have raised their hand and for anyone else who is online and would like to speak please use the raise your hand feature on zoom or start nine if anybody is still called in the folks in the room are no longer here so we'll start online with um nicolas pinion thank you very much can you guys hear me we can yes excellent thank you and appreciate all of your time uh this evening um so you know i i really would like to address the the cito staff here as well as all of the commissioners and um you know chair hogan you mentioned that this is a trade-off between housing people and in parking uh i urge you to think um larger than that this is not just a parking lot this is an area of the city where hundreds of families live um to to the cito staff i i recognize and i appreciate the effort to help provide temporary housing for the homeless um however i am adamantly opposed to the location site the pod proposal i do not think that this has been a well thought out plan i i believe that chair o'neill uh vivanco hit the nail on the head in that the approach here has has really not been respectful or fair um cito did not ask uh the commission's permission uh prior to uh moving forward with this nor did they reach out to neighbors and property owners i did hear that you know yesterday you you mentioned that you reached out to one of the property owners um i in in our our company which provides low-income housing to people in burlington we own 61 elmwood which directly touches this parking lot no one reached out to me no one reached out to my property manager um and and so i i disagree that you've reached out to owners and neighbors um i also agree with commissioner overby's statements that you know this is somewhat of a premature uh proposal and in that a shanty uh village will not be appealing to the homeless uh i also you know i find it degrading i think that you need to think uh from their perspective this this would almost further ostracize these people i the last thing i want to say is that you know i i speak obviously as a property owner but i'm also representing numerous families that that live directly on this parking lot in in in various buildings and this week we we had a a young mother uh call me and my property manager she has two young children that she lives with in the apartment that directly looks on to this parking lot she called in tears truly frightened she has two young daughters who regularly walk home on elmwood avenue this poses a serious threat to safety the the fact that this you know proposed shanty villages is going to be a wet facility that allows drinking inevitably drugs if we're all you know sort of being real here uh this has huge ramifications it's far bigger than than replacing a parking lot we need to think about the community here so i urge all of you to in respectfully ask you to put put yourself in her shoes and with that i you know i just want to again speak for for for the families that live in these buildings this is has much larger ramifications and i urge you to please think about the big picture thank you you i think can we just i think uh we did try to reach all the adjacent property owners and this property was um identified as an LLC so we would love to CEDA would love to have an opportunity to get your contact information and communicate with you directly so i don't know if you can you know provide it to the public works commission and they can pass it on to CEDA but that would be really helpful for us thank you absolutely thank you chair hoagie next in queue we have uh daemon welcome daemon who's uh stage your last name for our record as well a bit further than the property that was just referenced and half my windows look out on this property and that's a uh for unit building that i also own and i'm completely supportive of addressing this urgent need and think this would be a better use of that site than parking i do think we probably need a variety of solutions that not everyone would like this community uh kind of a dense situation but this is a start and we can do other things too i think in the longer run it'd be great to see that property do even more and keep this kind of thing going but also add mixed income parking i mean sorry mixed income housing and other kind of community needs like day care but you know we're getting well outside the commission's purview there and i just want to say with people's comments about the um you know noise or other things living here there's plenty of noise and you know the college students housing uh you know those are i i'm just i'm not that worried about the the pod shelters adding to this anymore than uh you know some of the existing properties so i guess i'm just wanting to say i'm a nearby person lives here property owner not that worried about this and uh looking forward to more discussion all right thank you mr. lane next in queue is janelle pinker hi there can you hear me yes can welcome hi there uh my name is janelle painia um i am a former state worker at dcf under the agency of human services so i have a really strong appreciation for providing resources to people in need in our community um with that being said i'm also an owner of the building at 61 elmwood closest to the parking lot and also a mom to three young children um so i can understand some of our tenants concerns around safety um specifically for young families um and having young kids nearby um i've i've read that this is a wet encampment which is concerning um and i now knowing that the community resource center is going to be co-located and that's you know understandably a priority um it also speaks to the fact that there will be a lot of people outside going back and forth between pods um in that resource center which again speaks to the debris and potentially dangerous things that um could impact the people who live nearby and i'd like to know what you are doing in the policies and regulations you plan to put in place to make sure that the area stays safe um that it stays clean um and that there is you know something that can help the people who live nearby feel safer around the community all right thank you for your comments chair hobe and no one else is in queue but commissioner bar did send me um public comment from the bba that he said he was going to bring forward and i think indicated um if i could either share it on screen or read it it sounded like that's what his interest was if that's favorable to you sure um so uh uh gym commissioner bars shared this with me comments from the bernards and business association uh thanks for the chat this morning i want to share an additional update with you the church street marketplace commission voted unanimously this morning that they were not supportive of the location chosen while still supporting plans for an emergency shelter pod community this summer um also below there are specific concerns about the downtown location that we have shared with the mayor and brand plan for your awareness i think the rest of this is going to put me over the three-minute limit so i'd certainly be happy to share this with with you directly and put it online or continue to read at your discretion oh yeah thank you for the um yeah the summary of the remarks there mr building posted for our records that would be great and you see uh we have one other hand in the virtual air here as well yeah and now uh tell you divine is in queue so we'll promote you over to speak okay thank you yeah i'm kelly divine i'm the executive director of the bernards and business association and uh while we did email jim that information we got from the commission meeting this morning those comments are not not please don't consider those official comments from the burlington business association if we have some to make we'll send them to the uh commission directly all right mr building anyone else for public comment here there is no one else in queue great thank you for that let's with that i'll bring it back uh chair poking could i just ask one question that is there were members of the community of the public who were in the room at um 625 behind and i think had their hand up and they actually left if you have contact information for them i would appreciate it getting it so we can follow them directly because they had questions i don't think we were able to address i just want to be responsive to those so i don't know if directly i think you're there rob so maybe you've got some info yeah director pine i took their email address down i shared with them uh the correspondence between you and commissioner overby which satisfied a few questions they had and then they had one additional question they left me with that i was going to send over to you folks to follow up on which essentially was a question about why uh the early to school district parking lot that's not in use currently wasn't on the site selection list and so um i'd be happy to share that with you so you can get back to that yeah thank you for checking on that all right i will bring it back to the commission at this point we are uh requested to take action on this item you know i'd welcome a motion if anyone has one i'll make a motion to support the recommendation right we have a motion from commissioner bows thank you for that i'll second that second from commissioner kennedy you is there any discussion around that motion commissioner overby i just wanted to point out that we received a communication from the u.s attorney's office requesting that not if you do this that it's not just the existing permit holders that get to move themselves over but anybody in the next three years that's working at the u.s attorney's office gets to have the ability to get a parking permit at the college and lake the parking lot that the federal employees use that parking lot and having been a federal employee i can tell you that they they they have fear walking to that parking lot so there's going to be fear trying to find another place to get to as well so i just want to point out that we did get that communication and i think the wording of the proposal um we may not address that and maybe um assistant director padgett you can address that whether that would be an acceptable adjustment to your proposal they wouldn't get parking in the only lot now anyway that parking lot is massively oversubscribed there's a hundred and eleven permits and there's only 70 spaces so you at the attorney's office if they ask us for a permit and a lot we wouldn't give it to them for the foreseeable future anyway so there's really no change yeah so if a u.s. attorney's office employee leaves and they hire somebody new that person uh will not get a parking spot anyway like you college yep right i think what i understand the assistant director division director jeff padgett to say is that there's a certain number for the attorney's office and that if one person leaves another comes then up to that number that we can accommodate is that correct i don't think we can i think if so anybody i mean my it's a little a little complicated because this is a legacy issue that i'm trying to deal with but my the way i've imagined it is if somebody leaves the lot we don't bring anybody else in period we don't have we don't have formal relationships that say the u.s. attorney has an allocation of 20 spaces or 30 spaces or whatever they have so we're treating everybody equal in that lot regardless of their i mean we had people don't leave because they know that it's over subscribed and they want to have that parking so this will be an interesting three-year period of you know what attrition happens and how we manage this to make it fair right they just have a danger factor as well it's like the safety factor of parking when they have to leave at night and the the other agencies that are in that building as well have the same safety factor so i just i was just wanting to make sure that that you are aware of that letter and obviously you are so that's that's the answer that they get for today all right thank you any other discussion around the motion all right sing now i'll go to a vote commissioner bows hi commissioner kennedy hi gotcha vice-chair neil vivaco hi commissioner overby i know i for myself motion passes i go to four to one all right thank you all for the the work on this one and uh yeah certainly look forward to uh and wish you the best in pushing this advancing this forward and collaborating with uh also the time both the commission and jeff pageant put a lot of time in it this was Samantha figuring this out so i just want to thank staff um thank you very much we'll keep you posted as well yeah yeah all right moving forward um dr spencer what do you what do you say we good for uh nasa management update yes indeed and given the hour we will move expeditiously um this is a request from uh commissioners i know we're talking to chair hogan who was interested in hearing an update on our uh multi-departmental multi-year asset management effort to do a better job to maintain our infrastructure i'm really pleased to have two stellar members of our team here gustaf sex hour and rocky vogler uh who are asset management leads within dpw i regret to say that gustaf is moving out west and so this will be last month with us and so i know the agenda was a little long but this will be uh kind of last chance to hear from our expert uh before he heads out west and thanks to rocky for agreeing to continue the momentum in gustaf's absence so with that i'll turn it over for their short presentation no action is needed tonight all right are you seeing my powerpoint got it thank you great um so yeah i'm gustaf sex hour i'm the asset management gis coordinator and i've got rocky vogler here who's the water resources asset manager and we've been uh implementing viewworks over the past year so if you recall a little over a year ago uh you had supported us in uh acquiring viewworks which is a uh asset management software made by dts and uh in many of the slides you're going to see here you'll you'll see some screenshots of our actual system so uh just a quick recap on asset management and why we're doing this uh we're doing it so that we can give the highest level of service to our residents for the least cost and how do we do that uh we're using asset management uh to gather data on our asset life cycles and work histories so that uh we have good data on how we did things in the past to make informed decision uh informed decisions for the future uh where we'll have you know good numbers to to base those decisions on uh and additionally we're we're trying to have uh departments work together and capture data in a similar way so that you can have more apples to apples uh comparison uh across teams uh so what have we been doing over the past year uh the implementation is consisted of uh configuring the viewworks site for our teams we worked extensively with them to work on their current workflows uh and see how they would work with how the system is set up uh for the the chain of command which you'll get a better look into in a minute um we were gathering data from old systems to migrate into viewworks and determining uh what sorts of uh requests and and work we would be tracking and which asset inventories would be important to have in this system uh and we also have uh done some technology upgrades so we've got new mobile devices in the hands of uh field staffs that they're able to use viewworks to record work in the field better and also to look at asset information uh and then the last item is just training training and training we started out with uh uh all teams got to have a two-week block of training with dts uh and from there Rocky and I have been following up with all the teams uh and uh coaching them along and getting them comfortable using the system um as they got their feet wet with it um and in addition to just viewworks itself we've integrated several uh different software with it cclick fix being the most important one it is uh uh service requests outlet for the public and those requests are coming in uh through our customer service uh representatives and they're sending them into viewworks so that we can see them alongside internal requests we can easily make work orders from those requests and attach them to assets and it's uh given us kind of a holistic system including those requests uh in addition to that software we have granted xp which is uh a way that uh video is captured for uh collection system assets and few works is able to link assets out to those recordings and so there's broader accessibility to uh see those recordings uh with paver uh we are setting up a way so that the uh pavement condition can be uh added into viewworks and visualized there and dig safe uh requests that come in will be able to be uh turned into work orders automatically for those uh crews to follow up on on marking work and then uh for civic rec that's a parks department uh software and automatic work orders will be coming out and spaces get uh rented out uh and i didn't put on this list but i also wanted to mention that we uh integrated with uh our our sign-ons for our network with the city so that we didn't have to have people remembering one more password uh to use viewworks uh so one other thing that was a big leap forward for the city was that when we were uh early on in implementation last spring uh we realized that our GIS system needed to be upgraded to properly work with viewworks and uh our city servers on site were also aging and we'd been looking to replace them uh for a few years so we made the jump to a cloud hosted uh environment and uh cloud managed services so we have a new uh enterprise portal that we have our authoritative data shared with uh from a new cloud server and uh that's proven to be a good way for a city to to access for the city staff to access uh authoritative GIS data and uh in this migration process we did a lot of data cleanup it was a good opportunity to review what was where and what was scattered around and then uh we also uh got more staff trained on using our GIS pro which is the newer and more advanced desktop version of GIS that's replacing our clamp and i just wanted to share a quick uh example of how viewworks and asset management can really uh be a boon for our residents so that we did have uh someone come into the parking services team who uh thought they wrongfully were given a ticket for uh being at a meter that was broken the parking services team was able to uh look and see that the traffic team had done a work order um addressing a problem with the meter the same day that the person had gotten the ticket and uh so it was a confirmation uh that they were able to get on quick with quick reporting without even going into the field and they were able to forgive the ticket to the person uh before they left uh their the office so i'm going to hand it over to rocky to finish the presentation uh good evening uh to the commissioners good evening chape and my name is rocky vogler i'm the asset manager and the water division of public works department and uh so pulling back the covers just a little bit to give you a peek inside of viewworks uh essentially what we do is we build inventories of all of our assets as shown in the lower right of this slide as an example of a water treatment plant and you see kind of a folder structure there and we've got uh assets nested within other asset types and so it kind of creates a hierarchy that allows us to effectively organize uh all of our different assets depending on either the type of facility that's involved or the type of system uh that uh is included and so what we do with that information uh that we store is we process service requests and work orders against those assets now service requests keep in mind typically come in from the general public uh they can issue a service request using c-click fix where they can call us up directly and we can process the service request on their behalf the service request then gets routed uh to a particular group or a single person and that person uh then after they determine what the issue is uh then performs work uh on a particular asset so at that point a work order is created and so what we're doing is we're tracking all of the service requests and work orders against a particular asset uh in addition to that when we do work orders we can also track condition and I think uh it was mentioned uh in one of the earlier items in your agenda tonight uh when we're looking at assessing risk one of the things that we do is we use condition and we create exploring metrics to apply to those assets so that we can compare one asset to another asset within the same class and determine which one has a higher priority in terms of devoting capital dollars or operation dollars to maintaining those assets next slide please so just to give you a a quick overview on how a process like this might work say for example a customer saw it's the summertime they saw water running down the gutter well they could go on seat click fix issue a service request in this case that would come into our customer care uh staff that work in the water department they would make sure that the category was appropriately selected and then they would forward that information to the appropriate manager so in this case the water distribution manager would get that request he would dispatch somebody on one of his crews to go out they would engage in completing the work they would process a work order in few works and attach it to that particular asset so if we had a broken pipe that pipe now has a work order associated with it that has a bunch of information that can be queried later on and so the manager then reviews the work order to verify that it's completing correct and then what happens to close the loop with the resident is that we provide comment within the service request and that pushes back out to see click fix so that the person understands that the city has responded to their issue and they get to see what it is exactly that we've done in that response next slide so he's as you can imagine there have been quite a few entities involved in this project up to this point Gustav mentioned a little bit earlier about the hosting that we're doing with GIS that's axem geospatial we contracted with DTS to use their view works product KCI technologies assisted us as a consultant they were there during the actual selection process when we were determining which asset management product we wanted to go with of course we have multiple departments across the city that have been involved in this and multiple divisions and sections within those departments so it's been a a very wide reaching project and will continue to be next slide please a couple of things that are interesting right now on the mobile app side of things so we can do this work on our desktop computers we can also do it out in the field using the mobile apps we have the ability currently to do work orders out in the field but we don't have the ability to process service requests in the field we can only do that from the desktop so very soon DTS will be releasing a new mobile application to allow us to work with service requests in the field which will be really helpful right now we kind of have a work around process to help us process service requests into work orders even though we can't see those service requests in the field we're wrapping up our implementation of the project and then we'll be going into closeout at which point the real challenge for the city is going to be to continue doing effective training to get people more familiar with the software and that's a process that will be ongoing for some time there have been certain groups within the city that have had an easier entry point into the software for multiple reasons and so moving forward we'll continue to keep our foot on the gas pedal to get more folks brought into the fold at the end of the day what we're really shooting for here is for all of our resource managers you know that are running groups of people or divisions and departments to see all of their staff fully engaged in this process because the real beauty behind asset management is as we get data rich we can start asking some really pointed and important questions of the software and allow us to make some really good business decisions on how to spend limited capital and operating dollars to best effect and that's really what we're after here with asset management next slide I think that slide speaks for itself great thanks much for the presentation here open it up for a discussion among my fellow commissioners this is when I'll start with Commissioner Overby I am very excited by this and I have been excited about asset management for years so I'm I'm really excited that you're getting it going I I recognize you're sent you're your comment about the training and ongoing training is going to be important and but I think it's exciting there's a lot to be that people are going to be able to do I hope that you can get excited people excited in the city all the city departments that that as long as each one of them can find something of value that you know that's worth their effort of doing the learning and also worth their effort of putting in content because a lot of times these kind of things get you know get to be annoying because people are just asking you to put data in and coding this and entering that and the actual person doing that gets no value from themselves and that's a that's a downward spiral of the information becoming outdated and useless so I realize we're at the beginning of this and I'm very excited I know Director Spencer has been like working on this and promoting this for years and years and years and I've been always supporting it so I'm really very excited and thank you for the report on this I can see a lot of potential in it and I know you're going to be on the hook here since Mr. Sexhauer is going to be heading away but hopefully we'll get somebody else in there to help you out and and this will be a real valuable asset in the community and at a certain point I hope that some of this information in the GIS format is going to be accessible to the general public one just quick question was who are you using as the cloud service provider for GIS that's Axem Geospatial okay so that's yeah you're not using one of the big you know big ones so that's great that thank you for that thank you very much yep I don't know whether they're using AWS in the background or what you know I was just curious about that it's it's Azure in the background it's Azure in the background okay great thank you very much okay thank you Commissioner Bose thank you for the presentation I have no questions thanks Kennedy thank you I also have no questions but I was a very informative rundown I appreciate it Vice Chair O'Neill Lovacco no questions just a comment first thank you and I love to see that this kind of investment kind of is paying off for you know for your ad teams and keep up the the staff training I feel like it's really important to also to what Commissioner Overby said is you know the more people who can use it and see value in it for their their pieces of projects you know the more buy-in so great job thank you great thank you for that it's cool kind of is all the data in there at this point like your pipe break history and all the stuff where you're still sort of transitioning some data in there we have all of the data upload that we need to do at this point is essentially completed and we will be adding additional data as we move forward in time but the building blocks for all of it is there so you might imagine that you know I'll give you a quick example at the water treatment plant I have some data fields that allow a user to input the model number and manufacturer name for a pump for example we may not have all of that currently populated but as we're doing work orders on those assets then we can grab that additional data and know specifically what we have you know what year something got installed so it's the attributes related to the assets that will continue to get populated great thank you and thanks for the the anecdote earlier about bringing some of these early wins to the life and checking the meter the meter repair history in an integrated way that's all great stuff and I look forward to sort of enabling even more of those analysis questions down the road just you know out of curiosity is the btv stat platform still a thing for us to be sort of telling data driven stories for the city overall yes generally we took a hiatus during covid the process has restarted and yes we are in the midst of that I do really see that the asset management software is going to enable us to do a much more sophisticated deep dive into our data as Rocky and Gustaf pointed out there is some data that will become more valuable the longer trends data we have in the system so you know we're still in the building mode we've brought as much forward as we've had easily collectible but you know to be honest there are certain assets that were recorded on pen and paper for years that are in filing cabinets and that information has not been brought in at this time so you know I think the real value of this is going to build over time yeah that's very reasonable is does pavement condition include the like the sidewalk condition inventory that we did a while back we have two types of analysis PCI pavement condition index and SCI sidewalk condition index two different tools we use we've just finished a citywide sidewalk assessment and be happy to report on that in the future but two different tools both of which will be in this asset management software great no thanks so much and lastly out of curiosity I was wondering what the license situation is do you have like a certain number of licenses for for DPW for parks so the the nice thing about viewworks is that you can make accounts for whoever needs them so we don't we don't have a limit nice we're able to expand as much as we need to right no thank you much I really appreciate the update here and I excited about this as an enabler of a lot of interesting analysis questions moving forward thank you both for all of your work on this and just certainly wish you wish you the best out west all right yeah nothing further on my end quick check with Mr. Golding do we have any interested members of the public interesting speaking on this one there is no one signed up for public comment all right there is no action requested on this item close out item seven at this point I thank you both for the presentation and update look forward to seeing seeing more out of this one in the months and years to come so thank you you certainly will all right directors reports all right so thank you very much I will be exceedingly quick thanks to the voters for the approval of both the general fund bond on town meeting day as well as the main street great streets tiff borrowing we were pleased to see both of those paths the challenge for staff will be building a budget now that has enough resource in staff to accomplish that higher level of work given that the tax increase did not pass so that is my challenge for the coming weeks the last item North Manuski Avenue parking management plan we went to the transportation energy and utilities committee earlier this week on Monday they recommended two to one to advance a resolution to the council this coming Monday night thanking the parking management plan committee for their work and for proposing a path forward for the implementation of North Manuski Avenue basically in short delaying the implementation the paving project on North Manuski Avenue by a year and thereby giving the community and the stakeholders the small businesses along the corridor a year to plan for the parking adjustments that will be made along that top block of North Manuski from Union to Riverside so happy to answer any questions on that there'll be a full item at the council meeting this coming Monday night and I'll leave it with that right thank you for that with that I'll go to item nine our agenda commissioner communications start with commissioner Bose nothing for me at this time thank you all right thank you commissioner Kennedy I also have nothing vice chair O'Neill Lavako almost nothing I just want to make sure that Holly got the notes in the chat there was a comment from Mr. Penya and he mischaracterized what I thought my statement was so I just had it in in the chat for the record about the pod community so just to capture that I will take a look at the chat log and make sure that's in the public car guys thank you and then just two thank yous one I wish Jeff was still on the signs and on South Union in front of Edmunds Middle School their sandwich boards I don't know what you call them talking about I have had kids in the Edmunds complex for so long I don't even remember it's over a decade and have I've had someone in the middle school for like for eight years now and so the safety South Union Street with the buses and the bikes and the cars completely disregarding the safety of kids those signs I think are fantastic so kudos to public works on that for getting stuff done that I as a parent and been able to and then also thank you to staff for for dealing with 12 overlay park and the challenges of parking for that emergency service vehicle I really appreciate the creativity they did come to the commission in December 2019 I know we were dealing with the pandemic but this felt like it took a long time so thank you that's it right thank you Mr. Overby I just want to relay one comment that I received about concerns about the intervail road road condition and I was sort of fact you know looped in with a communication between somebody who was communicating with I think assistant engineer no involvement and I just wanted to let the other commissioners know that there's been a big concern about the condition of a the road which we know we've been waiting to try to get that side you know the multi-use path on the side but particularly the crossing there seems to be a disconnect in getting repairs made to the railroad crossing and the person was saying that there was she was expected to call communicate with somebody at the V-trance about how to get that repaired so there seems to be you know the concern that I wanted to share is that there's a lot of traffic there's large trucks that go down there and people are trying to get ready to get in their gardens going right now and the and the condition of the space on either side of the railroad track seems to be the responsibility of the railroad owner but there seems to be a lack of communication in a way that's making that repair possible and I guess there's changes in the way that the repair repairs get done around railroad tracks like at the bottom of College Street there was those rubber matt rubbery kind of crossing things to make it easy for people to bicycle across and walk across and anyway the concern is that there really needs to be an escalated effort made to find a way to replace these to repair that and the methodology is different and apparently there's no way to do it and engineer Baldwin has communicated about that but this person was somewhat frustrated that she was being told to just contact v-trans and see if she could get something done about it so I'm just sharing that sense of frustration about why is it that a public citizen who's got a garden down there and who sees the the road and particularly the dangerous situation at the railroad crossing why there isn't a better way for the public works department to get that worked out so I'm sharing that with you all because I don't know if you use the gardens down there or not but anyway I just want people to be aware of that and I don't know what's can be done about it other than we do a bake sale and try to buy these new concrete crossing things to to fix the railroad track if if nobody's going to take take responsibility for it and people need to fix it before somebody crashes their bike and and is injured so that's my comment all right thank you for that Commissioner Overby am I now just to echo what Vice-Chair Lee Wavako said I appreciate on the the new signage on in front of Edmonds there the whole crew was out one day last week so Rob, Jeff, Leonard, Dave or Doug the other gentleman's name that was out was running a little late to grab my kids and didn't get the chance to say hello but I saw you there I appreciate your you're all getting eyes on the situation as well anyways nothing further on my ends close out Commissioner Communications and move to item 10 adjournment next meeting date April 20th it's from the entertainment I'll make a motion to adjourn the meeting all right so we have a motion thank you is there a second second all right a second from Commissioner Bose is there any discussion around that motion all right we will go to a vote then all in favor if we say aye aye aye any opposed all right we are adjourns good evening all we'll see you next time