 On this episode of Skepticoke, a show about going away. There you are. We were wondering when you'd show up. And a show about when to come back. We can't make everyone aware. The default is everybody sleeping and now I'm going to try to wake up as much as I can and if I meet others on my journey who also seek that or have some ability to do that or has shown to do that to some extent, I'm going to hitch my wagon to that person as long as that's useful for both of us. That first clip was from the wonderful Christmas movie Shutter Island and the second was from today's guest, the one and only Al Borealis from Forum Borealis who joined me or I should say I joined him to talk about 2022 year in review for both Skepticoke and for Forum Borealis. Now as some of you may have noticed, I have taken a step back from the mic on Skepticoke. I haven't done episodes in a couple of months. So it was really great to get back in touch with Al and to talk about the year in review and the reasons why I step back and some of my thoughts on when and if I should continue in what form I should do so. So I enjoyed the chat. It did bring up some stuff for me as I continue to work out and figure out where I want to go. A process which I would really, really appreciate you all joining me and telling me what direction you think this show should go in. It is my personal journey, but it's shared with you so I'd like to know your thoughts on it. But before we can get to that, we have to listen to the year in review with my special guest Al Borealis from Forum Borealis. And welcome to this swap casting or annual review of the year with Skepticoke and Forum Borealis. Hello Alex, how are you? I'm great Al, how are you? Yeah, I'm pretty stoked for this thing. It's our last time we had a show with each other. It was the end of the year, wasn't it? Well, actually after the end of the year you were also trying to do the anniversary show on Skepticoke. So that was quite an event on my 22 calendar, so that was great. Yeah, that's how we entered this year actually. Great entrance. And you know, I have been, I have backed off of the mic lately. I have not done a show in a couple months and that might be something we're going to talk about as well because I'm trying to find my way forward in this journey and in the way that I'm trying to do it. So we've got a number of things to talk about. That is interesting. I've done the complete opposite. I've never made as many shows as now. My listeners are even shocked that they got three shows this month. So from being lagged far behind in the beginning of the year and going through some very time-consuming personal issues we don't have to get into. I've turned around the ship and now I'm ahead. Great. And I've even started catching up at YouTube. So that's interesting that we took such a different turn there. But where do you want to start for today? Well, you know, the format we did last time I thought had legs, but then we could change it as well. Last year we did three significant moments from Forum Borealis and interleaved those with three significant moments for me from Skeptico and then with, and I've already teed you up with this, some predictions because I have gone back and listened to those predictions you made from last year and you have not. Warning, some serious ball busting is coming. Warning, yeah, go on. No, you got the gist of it. Yeah. So what did I say? I completely forgot all of it. I think we should hold it off until we get to the predictions at the end. Okay. I did and we could start there. We could start anywhere you want because I have some interesting thoughts on the simulation theory as well, but we could start there. Yeah. You wanted to talk with me on or about it. So let's start there. Well, why don't you then start by telling folks about your conversation with Riz Verk and how that went and what you pulled out of that for folks who listened to Forum Borealis? Sure. It's not that much to say though. I first heard Riz at your show and it was such a great show and usually when I hear a great show I think it's done. It's done. There's no way for me to there's no point for me to reiterate what was just done. But this was one of the rare exceptions where despite that I heard a perfect show and I'm talking, I think about your first show with him, not the second. I was kind of disappointed with the second. But the first was the gold standard in my book for this topic. So I thought, hmm, can I contribute here? Can I expand on this? And I was thinking, yeah, I can tie it more to the classical view, which is really what I adhered to. But the lines between them are fairly thin actually. So I did rehash everything with him. He basically made many of the same points as in the part one with you. But yeah, I got to inject some of my two cents and that's that. I think it's a great show I did. I'm not just sure it was a necessary show. But then you told me something that I want to discuss it. You were pretty stoked on that hypothesis for a while earlier this year. But you never told me what it is that you were fired up about. So if you remember. Well, you know, first thing I have to say is I think you're downplaying the show. You did a fantastic job. And I remember telling you that, you know, you were like, hey, I wasn't sure I should go into this for all those reasons. It's been done. And no, you guys covered so much territory and you did bring your unique perspective to it and kind of bounce that off of him. And you know, the interesting thing, just so we remind people who Riz Wurk is because he's a super interesting guy. Yeah. Very technically competent. It's one of the founders of the MIT Massachusetts Institute of Technology Game Lab. You know, this is like one of the top tech universities in the world, certainly in the United States. And here is a guy who is just right in the inner workings of that and was super successful as an entrepreneur as a game developer, right? So he has this advanced degree from MIT and he's a game developer and I think he sold like something like 20,000 apps, game apps before he was 25 years old. So very competent, very rich and then, you know, went on to do venture capital deals and stuff like that. But also this name, Riz Wurk, we don't even, I don't know his full name. I'm sure it's not Burke, it's the full Indian, you know, 15 syllable kind of thing, but they personally shortened it for the rest of us. But he's very knowledgeable on traditional Indian spirituality and he's writing a book on that right now. Yogananda, the Yogananda folks have kind of hired him to do something. So I think you guys had a lot to connect with on that show. You know, my... Yeah, and I'm happy I'm going to have him back for his second book, which is more the multiverse take. And I want to say another thing that I didn't get to say in that show and that's that he's all this, but for our listeners, take note, he's also the producer of some great indie movie documentaries. One of them is Thrive. What on earth does it take for something like that is the title? And the other one is serious about free energy. So he's really a so-called angel investor, a good guy. Okay. So there's two parts of that angel investor and good guy. They don't always go hand in hand, but I'll take care. He seems like a good guy. He seems like a light versus dark kind of person, although we all make up both elements of that, which is something we can talk about. So the pushback I had with Riz and I still have with the simulation hypothesis is it's stretching the metaphor, I kind of think. The other term I always use is backdoor materialism. If the ultimate reality that we're discovering scientifically is that we should not rely on our understanding of time and space, which is what the science comes back and tells us. That's what quantum physics tells us over and over again is don't trust your measurements because they can get all screwed up with entanglement and experimenter effect and double slit and all that stuff. It just comes back and says don't trust your version of reality. Well, we can't accept that fully and then turn around and say, oh, but it is a computer simulation because computers are in time space, right? Computers by definition are in time space. They cannot be otherwise. The computer is constantly measuring time. It's constantly slicing it into these little slices and arranging it in a linear fashion. So we can't come to the scientific conclusion that we're coming to over and over again is that consciousness is somehow outside of space time and then try and jam it back in and say oh, but it is a simulation and that simulation is essentially a computer that is in space time. I'll get that. See, this is why I always regard the computer as a red herring. Correct. When I emphasize this theory, I'm not concerned about the computer. The only reason we need that is to get the materialist on board to open up enough to try to comprehend it. And if that's achieved, then we can leave the computer. The interesting thing with the computer... Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I can't let you go on that because you're kind of a slip slide in there. It is, how would you construct the simulation quote unquote without a computer? Certainly Riz isn't. Riz, his book, which you guys talked extensively about, is again and again drawing our attention to the parallels between computer simulation as he is as he's deeply involved with from a gaming perspective and our reality as we understand it. The rendering of reality. I'll answer that. I knew you were... I got it. I got that was where we were going and my attempt to explain that is as follows. Now if you looked at a computer, let's see what it really does in this case. It interferes with our senses. It is a generator that creates boundaries for our senses. So it creates patterns. It creates geometric experience. So it partitions space, so to speak. Now for me, the computer is not key to this theory. For me, the computer is a metaphor in this theory. More than a metaphor, it's an analogy because you can have something generating the experience of space and time for that matter. You can have something interfering with those frequencies of our senses and our senses, I'm talking our consciousness here because it's not in the perception channels itself it happens. It's in the experience of the impulses that the perception channels generate for us. So a computer is a crude material low frequency kind of attempt. It's like we are stone age people and just picking up the club and we're looking at this as a tool. Of course it's a very rudimentary tool it's still a tool. If you open yourself to perspectives like divinity or to higher dimensions, etc. Then we're talking about something generating boundaries and manipulating light so that those frequencies which we, for some suspicious reasons are limited to makes us experience this illusion of a 3D, 4D if you add time, reality. That's basically what's going on. That is the generator. Now if you want to call that a computer, if you want to call it the finger of God whatever, but it's something created, it's something generated that is manipulating our perception of existence. It's actually limiting our perception of existence. Exactly the same thing would happen if we had, and we don't have and I don't know even if we get there but if we had advancement of computers to manipulate us so that we forget where we are and we think we're inside a new reality then the mission achieved. You understand? No, wait a minute. I understand but you're again kind of mashing a bunch of stuff together that doesn't necessarily go together and this is when I had the pushback, my pushback on Riz was you're stretching the metaphor too far. Aren't you stretching the metaphor too far? And he didn't kind of like that because people who really are into the simulation theory do not believe that it's metaphorical. They believe, you kind of went around the world there with your thing because when you wound up at the end was eventually there might be this supercomputer that really does do the simulation which is where Riz is going. All that though is dependent on chopping up space and time and measuring shit so you can't have it both ways. You can't say it's a crude metaphor but it's also the correct metaphor once we advance technology enough so I just think we have to be more precise in what we're saying. If you where I land on it is that the ultimate reality that I think you and I have a sense for is so much greater that it can never be reduced down to this puny simulation computer is it a... I will go officially understand saying I don't believe we are trapped in a computer game. What I'm saying is I think we could create a computer game that could trap our consciousness not our consciousness in terms of the course to it but if you put someone physically in jail Alex and they only have like five quadratmeter to move about you're kind of doing the same thing you're confining their perceptions which will influence their consciousness which is why people get destroyed in jail. So take Nelson Mandela and lock him in solitary confinement for two years and what do you get? You get this extraordinary human being who comes out and says it was nothing I traversed the universe and I came to this lock Mahatma Gandhi in the same cell and what does he say? It was nothing I traversed the universe but these aren't to the run of the male people these are the exceptions it doesn't matter they are not the exceptions that ability to they are Neo they are all of us the light shines through all of us the power is within all of us and we merely we're just trying to figure out better ways to refine it tap into it and move it but now you're missing the point man the point is I'm making the point don't buy into this idea that they are going to be able to limit our consciousness by jabbing us in the arm by sticking a VR thing around our eyes or any of the rest of this the field of consciousness that we are a part of is an infinitely infinite times greater brighter more dynamic than any of this puny stuff and we may not be experiencing that on a day to day level because this is a pretty heavy time that we're in but to me I'm not speaking like a preacher I'm speaking this is the reality this is your reality as well this is what the esoteric the deep wisdom has told us all along is that everyone has the ability to transcend I agree but the challenge for the controllers the Satanists whatever you want to call it the materialists, the transhumanists is to try to reduce that effect that's greatly annoying to them that everything always points to consciousness consciousness is key mind of a matter it's played to beating up Aristotle on a daily basis but that doesn't mean Aristotle can't find some devices to trick people into because this is the thing then it's all about making us forget that we are gods actually making us believe we are not gods actually making us believe that a ruler is god that's the story of mankind what I'm saying about the computer is that yeah I totally think they can invent the computer that I don't know sedate someone whatever you do to make them forget or break down their identity and then wake up in this you see that 10 years down the road 20 years down the road that the potential of such a technology could exist I'm not saying that makes a new world and this world is great no it's going to be but a shadow of a shadow of the world we're living in but who's to say we're not already living in a shadow of a shadow because you have gone deep into near death experiences everybody describe it as how Neo would describe it if he woke up from the matrix it's like a total new sense of reality it's like more real than this reality but then it's also this this ecstatic feeling of you know coming home all that stuff so in many ways this fantastic brilliant beautiful reality we are in now you need to try to imagine that that as good as it is can be but a shadow of an even greater reality and in that perspective we can envision something worse than this reality a deeper hell if you like absolutely we can create because we can create hells I don't know about paradises we don't have a good track record for that but we have a good track record for hell so yeah we could make a lower vibration mirror as above so below but that doesn't mean it's identical it just means that it's a spiral and that you know 10 o'clock lower levels so yeah I think we can create lower levels of reality I think we can immerse ourselves into that I think it can be used against us it doesn't have to be a good thing and I think that's just a principle of reality because there's nothing human beings can do or can't do that's not already a potential template for so we do something it means it's already allowed in existence and yeah I think we can imitate the creator and do a diabolic kind of mockery of creation which is transhumanist's wetest dream right well yeah I have a lot to say about transhumidism and that could be one of the moments one of the moments from 2022 of skeptico and it definitely would be one of my top moments but you've seen tell me where Forum Borealis has run into the transhumanist agenda and how that has spun for you in 2022 well more than anything via covid of course that's where we all see it and and you've seen those alien blood clots people are infected with yeah it's insane it's been in the papers here too but this year I've done something I haven't done since I started I've had three UFO shows this year oh wow I know four if you lump in simulation theory because that can fit with everything right and I think UFOs also tangents the transhumanism topic but I think we should start with the traditional segue to it you had a great show with Mr Cox this Brit who runs the what's he called consciousness deep state consciousness podcast yeah the Richard Cox thing and so I guess I figured out how to get you to listen to skeptica I just have to schedule an end of year no no I have listened to skeptico this year but I've heard half that show and it's very interesting you know those who deny the virus one obvious hypothesis is that they are running into the classical flat earth crap right that they become yes that they because they know the powers that be in any area know that they will always be a certain amount of opposition it doesn't matter even if they're right there will be opposition so how can we how can we derail most of this opposition they always have to muddy the waters like vaccines the number one sigh of trap inside the vaccine there's microchips or something like that right and nobody really believes that but that's how you derail all vaccine criticism and I see that totally the same could be done by viruses that okay if people deny this a virus then they deny themselves out of the debate and we've taken care of most of the criticism the criticism would be stronger if these people hadn't you know divorce themselves from this reality so I totally get your point there well you you maybe do but if we're we kind of jump to a different topic because I think transhumanism relates to another issue and we'll get back to that with Dean Raiden which I think is phenomenal it's well it speaks directly to the transhuman issue so I don't know if we should jump there but you brought up the no virus thing yeah let's do the COVID things first okay let's get it over with so it doesn't take the whole show okay well it still might wind up taking the whole show because it's really kind of a major turning point for me kind of one of a one of a handful of moments on Skeptico that I can really point to that totally changed my perspective on everything do I have the ability to play a clip into the show so let's play this see how it goes on this episode of Skeptico rabies damn rabies a woman shouldn't have to be hit by a car to learn that she may have rabies but that is where we are in America and that does not sit right with me and that is why I am hosting a fun run race for the cure for rabies to raise awareness of the fact that there is a cure for rabies a disease that has been largely eradicated in the US but not very many people know that there is simply no proof that there is a virus called rabies that causes the dogs to go nuts there's just there is no scientific proof of that that's a story so of course that first clip was Steve Carell from the office but the second one was from today's guest Michael Wallach who joined me to talk about his new documentary series the viral delusion hope you enjoy the show so a lot to talk about I guess I'm going to try and jam it all in here because I've opened this can of worms here's the moment for me I as you know from the last end of your show we did I kind of stepped into this pile of material on the ground last year in 2021 I interviewed first gosh I interviewed Tom Cowan I interviewed a doctor Tom Cowan who is a viral denier and before that I interviewed David Ike who really kicked the thing off everybody knows David Ike I heard one show with you back in the when covid was strong there was this guy you were discussing masks that was cool Tom Cowan so the origin of this to just kind of do the whole thing David Ike I had David Ike on the show and I've always thought David Ike was so incredibly he's like so many of these figures in this alt media community that were a part of where he's done incredible incredible body of work he's opened people's eyes minds hearts up in so many ways but he also seems to dump a lot of bullshit along the way he's either self-deluded or he just I don't know what the deal is but anyways I'm interviewing him and I go hey you seem to be pitching this I know virus thing I go come on David what's up with that I said even you back when they did the swine flu thing said that this is a manufactured bio weapon why have you and in typical David Ike fashion he was kind of like he had to pause and remember that yeah that was he was right you know he was right with the swine flu 10 years ago and now he's been good-winked into these crazy no-virus people who say you know there is no virus it's terrain theory you know germ theories out suddenly without interview Tom Cohen the most hated interview I've had people like my god you didn't let this guy talk you know you shut him down and it's part of this thing I have of don't suffer fools gladly you know and that has come up that in one of the themes of the last half of 2022 the Bible might be full of shit but there's a lot of good stories in there in one of this great stories is when well Paul writes these letters to these outlying camps who heard the good news and he sarcastically says oh but you guys wouldn't care because you suffer fools gladly you don't mind if people come on and say all sorts of stupid things that you're meeting so I care kind of thing and it's worked its way into our society we all understand you know some people think we should suffer fools gladly if you want to be up and be a knuckle dragger and talk about flat earth and you want to be Eddie Bravo who's a great guy and you want to talk to Joe Rogan great guy but they want to be knuckle draggers and they're proud of the fact that they're kind of anti-intellectual and they've never gone to college and they don't really know science but there you know hey I got an opinion everyone's got an opinion great the problem with that is that science does have something to bring to the table and the other because I don't really care about any of that shit because everyone does have an opinion everyone can talk debate you know whether whether Norway or the Swiss have the better downhill skiers and that's you know you can sit around at the pub and you talk about that shit all day long or politics or stuff like that but I've always tried to do on skeptico is expose something deeper something on a spiritual level or something on a very covert manipulation misinformation level this is all a lead-in Al and the reason I wouldn't let you jump in there is because we got I have to finish this whole thing out and it's going to take another couple minutes sure so this is the lead-in to me constantly being kind of barraged by these no virus people go Alex you know you're so stupid there are no viruses there and I go that is just ridiculous it's flatter science quit pitching that how can and I'm like you have to step up your game because you're dragging the whole system down in the way that you obviously saw you know they are dividing you by creating this whole segment of wacky conspiracy theorists that they can all point to and laugh and you're joining in and letting them do it so finally I said if you have someone who's credible who wants to come on and talk I will actually have them on long-winded story good old skeptical always taking on anyone yes Al yes but this is where my whole world changes somebody says here's a guy he has this new documentary viral delusion it's a well-made documentary it features a lot of credible it would seem real medical doctors so I contact Michael Wallach and I I first so I contact him and I first he agrees to the interview and he's very nice and accommodating and I do a search a background search on him and I don't really find anything on Michael Wallach I go that's okay so then I send him an email and this was a little bit very out of character with me but I wanted to find a way to just tell this story in a way that people would understand and I thought the way to do it would be to say to turn it to the rabies because we've all known for hundreds of years that when the dog you know dogs get rabies right so I sent I sent Michael this email and in the email I told him the story about my dog when I was a kid who played in the forest and then came back and a few days later he was foaming at the mouth and we took him to the vet your dog has rabies we have to put him down and I said oh that was so heartbreaking for me and Michael emails me back and says sorry to hear about your dog your dog didn't have rabies there's no such thing as rabies your dog probably had worms and at this point my thought is this guy is retarded I mean this guy has limited that's within the to be honest that was my thought this guy has limited intellectual capabilities and I should kind of take it easy on him in this interview because in the process of making of exposing him I'm just going to make everybody hate me even more so I do the interview with Wallach and if you heard the intro to that interview that I just played there no no no no he is not a slack jawed idiot he's incredibly well spoken he's also a great at spinning stories he's a conversationalist and he has a lightness about him and he tells and he's very well educated and this whole thing as I'm doing the interview you know you and I have done a lot of interviews we can pick up a lot on people and I'm like wow what is going on here and then I do decide to go into the rabies thing and I go come on you know it's ridiculous we all know I mean rabies really and he just pounds it he pounds it home no there are no viruses and as a matter of fact you brought it up and rabies never existed in this night but here's the point of the story I get off of the interview and I go what is going on here and I start searching and this is just bad poor background checking on my part but I search for Mike Wallach and suddenly Mike Wallach pops up Mike Wallach has an undergraduate degree from the top Ivy League schools in the United States Mike Wallach has a master's degree from Columbia and if anyone's tuned into the alphabet soup intelligence agency breeding ground Columbia is one of the places Mike Wallach had an internship with Barack Obama where he was preparing briefings for Barack Obama fellowship can you do you know how exclusive that would be do you know how many people out of a million are talking about that have an undergraduate degree from Ivy League school master's degree from Columbia fellowship that has them doing personal presentations to Barack Obama but then he leaves he leaves Washington to go to Hollywood to make films the first film he makes is with a major Hollywood director and the film you can watch that I played or I gave to people is a horror film about a very infectious disease that causes panic among the large part of the population I forget the name of it it's 5-6 years ago you can look it up his second film so he is a fast track guy his second film oh it's this hokey little viral delusion thing that can't even be on any of the major platforms because it's too controversial and is just directly focused on talking to this little subgroup that you and I are familiar with this little alt media subgroup that thinks there's no viruses was this before Covid? no this is 2022 so my world shifted because I think I was talking to a guy who's on the job on the job if you know what that means we use in the United States like when one cop runs across another cop and the cop's undercover and he's doing something that he's not supposed to be doing he goes pal I'm on the job and then there's a wink and a nod and everybody just goes on their own way so I don't know I have no idea I have no idea is Mike Wallach on the job? I don't know does he really believe everything in the viral delusion I have no idea does he have an undergraduate degree a master's from Columbia? was he a fellow? so at this point so the really the important afterthought and why I've paused kind of skeptico is so I go and talk to Richard Cox who also interviewed Mike Wallach Richard Cox who's been on my show multiple times Richard Cox who used to work for me doing booking on skeptico because I like him and I honor and respect the work he's done he totally falls for the whole thing he totally he's unshakable he's unshakable now he's converted over to the you mean after your interview with him because he wasn't that unshakable into yourself? he was unshakable yes he's kind of downplaying it he did his own interview with Mike Wallach he goes and does presentations to folks at churches or wherever showing Wallach's film he is so the this is where he's invested in it yeah and so what does that mean what does that mean for you know you and I are sitting here talking about how they're doing this how they're gonna do this man it don't take much people start doing it to themselves yeah he's always been like that what do you think of that whole whole story what are your thoughts? oh boy well we're entitled to our own opinions but we're not entitled to our own facts I know that's a cliche but it actually matters so I was kind of following Richard Cox when he said like where is your I'm sympathetic to that attitude where is your pain threshold what would it take for you to reassess a certain paradigm that you have been invested in right and I can tell you where it goes for me when it comes to this virus things because I haven't picked up this side show I haven't monitored it enough so I don't even know what their scientific argument is but I can make a case for the no virus theory without knowing what they're making and magically it will fit with the virus theory too and it goes like this there are scientific experimentation within the forbidden parts of science with that I mean everything to do with electromagnetics and I forgot to tell you in our former topic that the electromagnetic scale may be the closest we get to an existential computer but there is a fact that they can mesh viruses by vibration and this guy this genius French man what did he get the Nobel Prize for but he is really the vanguard of the frequency science which is again a taboo part of science it went black after the second world war because it decodes so much including UFOs so they could he could transfer a virus via what was it radio or something with taking the signature the vibration signature beaming it half and then it pops up in water which is a good conductor right at the receiver end now some people may take this and run with it ah there's no viruses all viruses are just frequencies it's just dissonant frequencies it's frequencies that are in disharmony with the frequencies that we need of life blah blah blah they would be right but you would also be right to say no no there are still viruses because this is the classical article versus wave debate just in a new manifestation so they are both vibrations frequencies and they are also entities because when you measure the entities because everything is vibrations so when you measure anything's vibration you are talking about both particles it's particles when you examine it in time and space and when you don't examine it we back to quantum to Schrodinger's cat then it's a potential anything so I always thought it was retarded if this was the argument they were using because it's not an either or it's a both and yes it is vibrations yes you can interfere with viruses thanks to vibrations tesla did it rife did it many did it and you can also heal or or or or dissolve those frequencies with vibrations but it doesn't mean that when it manifests in your body it doesn't behave like viruses and it spreads and effects like viruses yeah totally so I'm on both sides of that argument no I don't know if this is can you explain to us basically the gist of how they deny viruses is it this angle or is it something else I like I step back and look at the process of because I would it's analogous to flat earth in that what really is I think it's this uber empiricism it's this it's the net result of what they've done in junkifying science so where we all are with science now is we don't trust science because they lie about science consistently and I would say that the way that flat earth was used was a setup for global warming and a setup for COVID right because if you get people in their bones saying you know it all nerds have screwed everything up I'm not trusting a damn thing you're saying and let me give you the most in your face example of how much I don't trust you I think the earth is flat prove me wrong and that's all it takes and you just extend that so as it relates to particularly terrain theory versus germ theory and we've talked about it on the show but it's a ridiculous proposition at the surface right it's the same as flat earth it doesn't deserve serious discussion and to be to be drawn into whether or not because terrain theory by the way you know and then the Richard Cox interview doesn't come out they also deny bacteria it's not like they just deny viruses bacteria is in there too you know so all the all the thousands and thousands of peer reviewed paper and verology they want to throw all that out the window but so it isn't like hey let's really try and understand their theory no it's like the famous guy said it's not even wrong it doesn't even rise to the level of that so the deeper part is how does it function inside of the deception how does it function inside of the misinformation system which you started with Al you immediately got that you immediately we may not actually agree 100% on that but that's immediately where you went which is like oh okay this is another way to you know divide and rule no I see that potential reality the problem here Alex is that we are trying to decode I wish we were like limited to baseball it would be so much easier to discuss but we have like a multi-dimensional perspective when we discuss anything you and me and obviously within the socio-political reality or if you want to indulge the retarded expression conspiracy theory or hypothesis yes obviously this whether it is or not it would be a wonderful sigh and yes it would fit all the bills but my problem is I can I can play the devil's lawyer here if you like if you can handle that because I can go to I can look at it ontologically and let's say no let's indulge the hypothesis model you realize that in the hypothesis model I mean the simulation model Earth can be flat spherical and hollow at the same time and you don't need to go to the computers let's go to the agnostics they said it's the consciousness that matters so is everyone believes that there was a holy man who was sacrificed on a cross if that power base in the Vatican can get enough people to envision that with their whole soul with all the senses it's so real I can touch it I can yes Jesus I can see him then it becomes real in the simulation that's how weird reality could be I'm not and now I'm not even talking about a machine now I'm talking if you go to egregors right and UFOs can be a manifestation etc that's how weird reality could be and in that same vein you could also say that yeah it's viruses and it's not viruses how many believe it's viruses bum it's shifting they say someone just got the Nobel prize for proving that the past doesn't exist so what on earth are those traumas we are having what on earth are these sweet memories we are having how can the those be generated and then stop existing could we change our past by embracing intensely a new reality of what happened could you take a trauma and then make it to sound for example and then that will start manifesting in an eternal now so now I'm just exploding all boundaries okay in a paradigm I'm taking it this far now you want me to rewind back into that socio-political box I'm with you this is and if it's not a Psyope it immediately becomes one they hijack it they invest in this they see how useful for example flat earth rebellion is but you know not these perfect puppet masters that we always envision them to be they're bungling things left and right all the time because of the your argument the X factor called consciousness they're not in control of consciousness consciousness is like this deluge throw not them and they are desperately trying to use duct tape to you know fill in the holes and oh it's coming through it's coming through okay bam over there this is how they're operating and many things they're doing backfires if we go to traditional politics I love the Duran he's a shout out for the Duran if you want some sober analysis just within the geopolitical realm that's it nothing alternative beside that but they have they give us the straight facts and then we can opinionate around it and we see how the bungling of bricks is taking over for the petrodollar and this is going against the great reset it's going against the western or anglo-american elites so they are not these perfect puppet masters in fact I'm with a friend Schneider on this he thinks that all this inbreeding and you know they needed people like Epstein who actually they need people who are competent because they are utterly incompetent at this point they just have the power the will and the money and then they need to have in their circle different kinds of geniuses who have no ethics who will implement their vision for them so ok I went all over the place I'll shut up now and let you comment well bring it home for me and tell me what you think about how you think that relates I think at a weird level anything could be possible if enough people believe it or become possible what would you do with that understanding see because to me that's always like a good good point yeah yeah no great question because you know the answer to that is it doesn't matter what would I do with it it's an information war so I would still behave as if viruses are real the earth is not flat for those ideas why because that's the shortest way to get to the target to where I want society to go it doesn't serve me or you or anyone else that we have to take this enormous detour around I can do it in private if you and me are sitting here having a coffee we can discuss ok what would it take for the earth to be round ok because that has no consequence but if 30% of the population believes it's round and meanwhile they're doing deep level 3rd dimensional chess warfare on us oh my god we need that brain power you know to what matters so I'm a both end guy here we should behave as if things are as we think it is and continue fighting that battle because it is also that this is also a reality and this is where the battle is taking place for example the battle is much more that we acknowledge our coronavirus and we acknowledge that they are fucking us up with the vaccines and we acknowledge that the pandemic has been poorly handled to put it mildly if we do that that's what's serving the immediate battle going on but in addition I can see other potential realities do you understand I do but I think you're climbing the last time we spoke for the end of year you had a great metaphor about climbing the mountain and going around and as you get higher and higher you can see people further down below and some of them are just going around the mountain again and again and some of them are in fact even though they're going around the mountain they're kind of choosing the path that takes them higher and higher I agree with what you said that we do have discernment in terms of bracketing reality which is the way I put it there is a consensus reality here and in that consensus reality viruses do exist in cause disease in that bracketed reality at the same time we have a very incomplete understanding of viruses and we have a medical industrial complex that has exploited the limited understanding we have of viruses and they've twisted it and turned it and developed all sorts of misinformation the whole HIV AIDS thing is real there is a real dispute there in terms of what is the relationship between the testing for HIV and the AIDS virus I had a guy on 7 years ago on skeptico and he said that he said you know the numbers do not make any sense the pure numbers that we get back in the demographic numbers people are going to so I'm down with the fact that they are screwing with the data because they don't really know what's going on with viruses but that doesn't we're saying the same thing here that doesn't give somebody permission to jump outside jump outside of the bounded consensus reality and say hey man maybe you know there's no such thing we have this bounded consensus reality and then we have all this stuff there's a time and a place for every debate they are polluting the real debate here with that thing it doesn't belong in the covid policy debate seriously it belongs in pipe smoking societies, cigar smoking societies in front of the fireplace but the real problem for you and I Al is that once we jump out of that discussion and say okay you're a deeper thinker let's really talk about the mountain because that's what it's really about and our path up that mountain well then now we have to come back and say you're using terms like battle and that and does that really make any sense from a mountain perspective are we really battling you know the I'm not sure that it does I'll tell you why because there's a million forces who want you to not ride that mountain and they want to lure you back into the woods so only for that and you know it's an individual it's an individual journey too it's not a collective one to talk I probably am not pronouncing that in a way that anyone who really understands Sanskrit but I love the translation that may the light in virtue in my heart be victorious to me that is the only real battle the only real battle is I have the light and the virtue the virtuous in my heart okay but brother let me rephrase it then there's also a million forces inside you who wants to not climb that mountain so there's always going to be a battle whether it's outside or inside it doesn't matter it's all the same no but look man the COVID reality is super important because you've been following the developments and I have a hellish scenario for you and that's that and I don't know what I predicted last year but I suspect I should have predicted it for the coming year because we have now a situation where there may be a lot of deaths accumulating I don't want to make it into some doomsday scenario but it's incredible you know how immediate how literal all the naysayers and the anti-vexers look at it objectively it's taken a really left turn time for prediction time for reminding you of your prediction from last year mm-hmm you ready? because it relates directly to what you're talking about your prediction at the end of the last year's show was that this is Al speaking I think Omnicrome could be the silver bullet not your language but say and you really expounded on it in a way because we were talking about how the western world was vaccinated but Africa wasn't vaccinated India wasn't vaccinated not to the extent that they would have liked anyway and where does Omnicrome seem to kind of emerge out of these areas that have resisted vaccination for long periods of time and you said I think this could be a game changer because you know herd immunity natural immunity blah blah blah you also painted the dark scenario but it could turn the other way and that they just further kind of double down on the whole thing yeah so I would take your prediction which isn't you kind of covered all the bases I don't know if you really get total credit for that but I think you pointed us in a really important direction and I think that direction applies here yes the vaccine has probably dealt a really severe blow to the immune system of hundreds of millions of people there's no question about that God has a couple tricks up his sleeve too he has ways that and he obviously I don't believe that there's some entity in the cloud with the beard and I said yeah I certainly don't believe yeah he sees but you get the idea is that no they will not determine the future of mankind by their hokey little poorly run project of manufacturing a bio weapon in a lab that will not be the end of the road they will not determine that it will be determined through some other means yeah but have you heard the news I've heard it for what's going on in Boston you heard it right they amping it up to 80% mortality and they're doing it with impunity where the fuck are the pitchforks why do you take covid that was failed because if the pandemic is as the worst conspiracy hypothesis as saying that they wanted this or it was a trial run or whatever then now they have the perfect thing because if the virus had worked as they wanted us to believe it worked then these people who you know the branch covidians who have cracked their brains on covid fear everybody will become like them it will become hell on earth fear is gonna run rampant because now we will have real real grounds for it because if 80% die in reality 0.8% died and they would have died if it was a hard flu too this we know now we didn't know it in the beginning but if 80% died which is what they've done now with the covid virus in Boston Jesus Christ that's hell that is a potential reality Ebola is another potential reality that we've lived with that is very high mortality that's just 50% either way it's the end of the world 50 or 80 does not make a difference if you have 50% or 80% it's still the end of the world as we know it so the other side of this which you know we could have we could talk for a long time we could do a bunch of shows but if you look at where we're going economically and we've talked a little bit about the bitcoin and the crypto thing as part of that and I think it also relates to world economies and currencies and stuff like that the end game there is not turning out the way that they want they're not going to be able to print $30 trillion in echo currency like they were planning on doing that was the plan you mean digital currency right what did I say what did you say echo the environmental carbon trading it's the same stuff and now we have China on the ropes in terms of what's going on with who knows what's up with biden and the chip thing but did you see the thing with the chips where the okay so this is another little factoid that some people are claiming and you could see it that it could possibly be true the best microchips in the world and there's a battle for them something like 80% of them are produced where Taiwan and and biden has just passed into law an executive order saying that the Chinese will no longer have access to the best chips this is trade war major trade war if anyone hasn't heard of this they need to go investigate it and he said and also he said anyone who's working on these advanced chips and are in China has to come home this shuts China down they are shut down if you don't have access to these chips you can't do anything moving forward in terms of your economy you're just going to slowly I heard they got them from Russia or something no the 80% of them are made in Taiwan and we have foundries here and part of this thing was to make us self-sufficient and build all the foundries here but we basically control that technology you know IBM just last year announced the two nanometer kind of integrated circuit so and Moore's law do you know what Moore's law is how computer technology doubles and doubles in 18 months and they said that's coming to an end well it's not coming to an end they continue to have breakthroughs there's no end in sight but you have to be really smart you got to invest a ton of money and then when you have it you have all sorts of patents and technology that you know and our friend Bernardo Castro the company he used to work for is the foundry that makes all those chips all that is in our hands USA USA USA so IBM owns that technology Intel owns that technology so we're now in a position to muscle China in a way that a lot of people didn't see coming how does that play out I don't know what does that say to China butting up with Russia I don't know what does that say for the end of the dominance of the US dollar I don't know and the reason to go on that whole rant between two people that like to talk about spirituality is just to show how many other cards there are on the table that need to be turned over if you're going to try and read the deck so it's like it's never ending in terms of where this is going how it's playing out what the 80% in Boston really means who's in charge all the rest of that and did the virus really come from America after all like George Web said here so early now it seems like it because the signature of it is from American lab it seems like got it from America but yeah you're right but this makes it exciting doesn't it because it's like the chips could fall anywhere it's impossible to make any safe bets here I will say that it's kind of good that America did this because it kind of proves that they have their neck the neck on the block because this is their new move to answer the other move you know the whole Ukraine thing we shouldn't go too deep into it because it will take the whole show there's so much to say about it but it backfired to the western elite the western elite pretends the whole world is on like it's the whole world against Russia in reality which people in the west won't know because we are completely brainwashed by our media is that it's the whole world against Europe and USA basically you can toss Australia and Canada but the whole world has gone together and this has been a slow thing BRICS isn't a new thing but what's really new now is that it's not just isolated crisis like the Venezuela guy or Gaddafi and all these people who talk about we have to create an independent currency to compete with the dollar this is now officially the policy of BRICS doesn't matter you didn't understand or don't agree with what I just said no I did because the reply is to use the stuff in Taiwan as the bottleneck against them the point is that the United States Federal Reserve as bad as it is as corrupt as owned by whoever is still in control there will be no move away from the US currency you do not we haven't even begun Turkey and Saudi Arabia no it just will what they're demonstrating to me one of the takeaways is there's a lot more power there than you might have thought and that was the problem when you were pitching me the bitcoin thing a year ago and by the way your bitcoin now has to basically triple in value for you to even get back to break even and please don't tell me that it's a good time to buy because you said it was a good time to buy at $40,000 oh good what are you doing with the stuff you bought at 40 the point is the United States for good bad whatever understands that they have to control and dominate economically and they're not going to do that they're not going to let go of that without a fight and the fight is so everyone was what I just told you about the chips thing what that should do for everyone and go look at the rivers that don't even have any water and the electricity that they can't do and there's zero tolerance policy on COVID which is insane and is going to run the country into the ground and now reassess and say oh those are the guys that I thought a couple months ago we're going to knock as currency off the top of the hill no way go look at where their currency is relative to the United States my wife just went to Oktoberfest she stayed in the finest hotels for next to nothing because the dollar is stronger than it's ever been in my lifetime so a few months ago it was oh my the US dollar it's done the pageant it don't look that way now it could look totally different six months from now but just one month from now this is just a part of the battle now you're very impressed by that move but there are many moves going on yes they will of course they won't go down without the fight and the fight will get dirty the fight is dirty the whole Ukraine thing is a part of this they're basically sacrificing an entire country and Europe is on the brink of collapse Norway is the part of EU but we are also suffering because it's harder politicians somehow feel loyalty to Europe so we have so much power here we have oil gas we have waterfalls we have wind and they are giving it for free almost to Europe and then they're buying it back expensively so now I'm suffering too because of these morons but Europe and Europe is waking up to being screwed by America because the America first bombs the Nord Stream both the new one and the old one so now Germany has nothing and then they say hey you can buy it from us and then we buy it four times as much as the price so they're squeezing so even the loyal European henchmen are starting to get cold feet and are having a very hard time dealing with the protests because this protest all over the world now is just not being reported farmers are on the street because the great reset is happening in real time as we speak I don't have time to go into it but they're screwing farmers big time huge corporations taking up everything so corporatism is the endgame of the corporatism they're desperate now that's why I think they also have this Covid thing in backhand in case they're really losing then they have to do something like that just because everything is coming home now to roost they can't hide the vaccine damage anymore people are waking up left and right not just in China I'm impressed by the Chinese raising up but I'm just as impressed with the racing up in Australia in Europe Bissau in Canada not long ago the truckers right so things are happening all over the place and the rulers are in squeeze because they have to fight the geopolitical battle at the same time they have to fight the inner battle against us the people and Russia China and other countries abroad actually supporting the price of the people in the west because they realize too that you know this is a monolith that has to fall and any country if you look at history the real fall of a power is from within from without can help but there's always this screw effect you know to front war so I'm not that impressed I'm impressed yes and I think they would even introduce UFOs and what not if they really are about to fall everything will come out anyway you don't believe in UFOs anyway let's not get off do you believe in a class of a space program no it's a non-starter to say I believe in a classified space program that has advanced technologies from UFOs but I don't believe in UFOs in ETs or I believe in UFOs but I don't believe in ETs it's logically inconsistent but that's why I say we could do 10 shows on all of this stuff should we segue to that well you know just to wrap up the other thing because I think this is really to me the crux of the issue back to the mountain because we can't forget that that's what drew us together that's what bonds our deeper friendship when we have these discussions because we do get at odds on some of the stuff down at the ground level the further we get up the mountain then the further we just go oh ok I see you fellow seeker I see you fellow deep spiritual person the problem I have with your continued analogy of the battle and hooray for the people who will rise up and do that is that back to what I was talking about Eddie Bravo and Joe Rogan you know I mean Sam is he's a comedian and so Eddie is he's gone on tour with Eddie Bravo Eddie Bravo is one of the leading flat earth you know and I get it man they're just playing around they're just see it's like you said which is that I understand the entertain like I've been doing this for so long the whole entertainment thing snuck up on me I didn't see it as that people are entertained by people find entertainment from podcasting I never looked for I was naive enough to think that when I was listening to interviews I was learning something that was always my goal I never wanted to listen to someone to be entertained I like being entertained but I separate that infotainment the most popular show my brother was just visiting me and he's been opening his mind lately and I'm surprised he's even a fan of me now and I ask what was it it was the biggest podcast in Norway called conspy porn what on earth is that well entertaining conspiracy theories and then I realise the game it's pure entertainment they have a new topic every week and I always have this ironic distance to it but they take it seriously enough to you know some of these conspiracies they buy into exactly but it's always this this see here see this new shiny object we're showing you now amaze over that for a while and then we put it back in a box and we find a new one next week and go on with your life exactly an evil doesn't matter exactly right exactly that's how it is I never saw that coming no never saw that coming I did because I was utterly entertained where the joseph ferrell talks with this old lady but it was pure info but that's because I'm entertained by info you understand right but that's a great that's a great point because I am too I'm entertained by information yeah but they need they need or shock and or but one of the things I said about your show all this time was that I find when you get contesting with your guests when you start to giving them a hard time especially the skeptics that's the shows I find most entertaining but when you have a circle friendly when you're like all all over the guy or gal right and who you're great stuff who then you often you tend to go deeper and that's the most enlightening interviews you do you see the distinction yes so apparently I picked up on it already back in the day I just never thought about it until you made me aware no I never thought about it until you just mentioned it yeah but it's been it's been like a deliberate cultivation of the entertainment aspect of the alti stuff that's what Netflix can afford right yes but they can't go all the way it's it's back to the boundary certain amount of spilled over into the exoteric field of the normies the muggles right the exotericians the sleepwalkers so now you can you can kind of deal with it like UFOs now you can do a UFO thing and be taken seriously so it's like the overturned windows is being stretched bigger and bigger but at the same time we have this force we have this force at the same a simultaneous force and this force is not natural because I believe the first one is the trend of opening up the paradigm shutters is a trend but then you have the artificial force doing cancel culture identity politics censorship now I have to have a show in 2022 called the case for freedom I never saw that coming when I started back in 15 that I have to convince people that freedom is a thing oh yeah that's the result of the other force that's working in parallel it's like both forces are getting stronger at the same time there's the there's the go into your silo go into bubble and don't even dare peeking out of it and at the same time oh nothing there's no taboos anymore we can discuss anything with anyone yes so it's so weird that both of those are there at the same time fuck there if anything proves the simulation theory that's it you're awesome but you know it's the knuckle draggers right so this is you are not going to this is the slow hard truth that I've come to is no the knuckle draggers are quite happy being knuckle draggers and they're actually quite proud of being knuckle draggers and the dilemma that we really face that you don't want to talk about and I don't want to talk about is they are as much an obstacle as they are a force for the positive change we want to see in the world so when you talk about the people being woken up well what are they waking up to they're waking up to their own crazy version of reality and I think that there's a there's the kind of shoe horn effect here where the two extreme ends of what seem to be the polar opposites the further you go they start coming together so we start coming together with the crazy satanist the crazy elitist the crazy luciferians who say as I said in last year's show what the hell do you want to be in the soup with those people for those idiots this is the french revolution all over again right this is not the american revolution this is the french revolution this is the killing fields in cambodia let's take anyone who's intellectual who thinks who wears eyeglasses let's take them out and kill them right so that has always been at risk right and so we turn around and we say who are our real allies in this and when we start looking and they start looking more and more like elitists who say yeah we don't really we don't really want those people around those people are not helping but I have a solution for that problem yeah I have a solution for that I see where you're taking it is a very great point you're racing I'm glad you're taking it up because I've noticed a tendency in you that you kind of expect all the different people you talk with to come together on all the different issues illusions that are crumbling and I've always thought you expect people the real journey up the mountain is for yourself not for the collective the best we can hope for for the collective is for them to because look I have to go back a step before I get to the punchline you know as well as me we've discussed this before that almost everyone in the world today realizes that something is rotten in the state of Danmark but they realize is within their own narrow and they don't transfer it to everything else they think everything else is working smoothly because they're not an expert in that field I'll give you a short example I have in my family a geologist he's retired now professor he's been fighting the climate change now I will talk about synchronicity this lady that you showed to Bernardo Kastrup I just discovered her a few days ago this climatologist Dr. Judy something so that was funny to see Dr. Judith Curry yeah you brought her up show with the castle that I loved anyway back to point so he's realized this for this long but he doesn't realize that this is the same collapse of checks and balances within the field of medicine so he believes the vaccine thing his father was a doctor he's oblivious of that but he knows it's rotten and corrupted and he's fighting in the climate change area you see this is how everyone is functioning and I think most people don't have the strength to even entertain that you know the whole paradigm needs to change but anyway back to my point I said I had a no no but that's such a great point I just have to that's such an awesome awesome point and we've all experienced that where someone wakes up to part of it and then remains yeah kind of totally entrenched in the rest and then you poke them and try to force them like you did it with Bernardo too obviously he wasn't ready for some hard truth in one field because he hasn't paid attention to it oh he can talk like a master on the thing that you usually have him on for that you chair on but then you see what happens when you try to push him into another water he becomes a human being like everyone else now these are the knuckle draggers you are criticizing so how to handle it Ron Paul had a solution long ago in fact even before him Leon Trotsky had the exact same solution it doesn't matter where you're coming from and they all said and not just those two but there are two very different examples who realize one single truth that we all have been common and that is never about it's never about getting the majority it's never about getting everyone enlightened everyone to see the illusion everyone to agree upon the solutions to the illusion it's always been about coalitions that's how the human collective mind moves forward if enough people are against the vaccine I don't care you can be a Nazi a Christian fundamentalist you can be a virus denier come into my camp come into my tent there's room here we fight this fight and we win bam ok what's the next fight is the next fight whether UFOs whether we have free energy, anti-gravity come into my tent whoever it is because that way this is real democracy Alex is better than any democracy that's been designed by any system because usually those democracies become the dictatorship of the majority this mechanism that everybody comes together and pushes in the same direction for this specific issue brings us forward there will be more runs in our tent on this specific issue and they will lose other battles where we may be against them because then we're fighting that battle but for this specific issue let's come together and I sincerely believe that the majority will always go in the right direction in this situation given that we are not too manipulated given that there's a minimum of free speech and open information this is why they need to control the information this explains two things of course it goes without saying that they control media and why we don't even have to discuss that everybody knows everybody agrees but that's just one coin of the control game the other one is to keep us in fighting we have to blame on neighbor we can't mention any of the entities in a controlling mechanism that's where we smack down so how to do that cancel culture amp up the cultural war so people care more about abortion or gender or what have you all sorts of insane things so that we don't come together on the important things that has to do with the economy or the control you know the passport the social credit system all that stuff no divide and conquer is the game so I can't get on people because they look at my curriculum and they're very comfortable if they only saw the other guests I had on for their area but then they see guests for other area they don't know the guests they don't even understand the area they think it's some kind of lunatic show going on here and I can't get that guest on because I'm not only focusing on baseball I have the audacity to focus on all the sports right and so I have to try to dance around tap dance around to get them on what why I'm mentioning this it's directly connected to this grand reality of our modern side guys which is divide and conquer you can't talk to your neighbor you have to blame your neighbor just don't blame Fauci or anyone in the top politicize everything everything becomes about teams everything oh you're in the wrong team bump cancel this is the opposite of science and this is how science has been hijacked so when you say we don't believe in science anymore I disagree we don't believe in institutionalized science or scientists there you know the politicization and commercialization of science but I do believe in the process and that process says you can share bad with anyone any for any reason like in the old days remember they said any advertisements is good advertisement but completely out of the window today ok I'll stop my rant now are you following me I'm following you I'm just I resonate more with the conversation we had last year because we covered a lot of the same ground and at some point you had done a spectacular interview on some audacious title like the hidden secrets of everything or something like that is about an esoteric occulted understanding of death and you really were quite impassioned in talking about how much knowledge there really is that has been carefully preserved through systems of through wisdom traditions about death and then we talked about that in contrast to modern after death science like after death communication or near death experience or share death experience but the key central point that I think we both came to is that the vastness of this experience which we don't even understand this experience this we understand that this experience of being human like you and I talking right now we understand that that's a tiny tiny little drop in this ocean of my soul of my soul I was going to say consciousness but that's too grand just in my soul's journey this is tiny tiny tiny so that's the problem I guess I have with the Big Tent coalition kind of thing no but everything is relative hunger only for truth hunger only for justice only for truth only for justice no compromise if you believe if you're a Christian no you need to go back and understand the fallacy of the historical Jesus narrative if you're a Muslim even worse if you're a believe in Judaism then you've missed the whole point of the first two points of things no we do not need to tolerate other people's silliness we should not suffer fools gladly no we should not respect other people's belief hunger only for truth but hunger only for justice and love because in the end we're just tiny little drops in our soul's journey yeah I want to comment upon this okay I'm glad you kind of restate us back to that sub point of yours because yeah it's a valid point but the irony here you come off as an activist you really are a truth warrior and you've always been but here's where our kind of cultural thing is different because I come from esoterica that's like we've already thrown in the towel and said we give up we can't make everyone aware we just we just the default is everybody sleeping and now I'm going to try to wake up as much as I can and if I meet others on my journey who also seek that or has some ability to do that or has shown to do that to some extent I'm going to hitch my wagon to that person as long as that's useful for both of us and so this brings the age old philosophical problem of what is the function and I discussed this briefly also with Rich Work what is the function of our reality and to me it seems like the function of reality is changing right now like they're changing the goal of the emulation game we're in but if the function is that we're some kind of school right then your problem is really that your parents instead of putting you in an elite school where people are functioning at your level you've been put in a school with a Norwegian school in the Norwegian school we put morons and geniuses in the same that's a whole philosophy of our country that it's benefits both of them to be in the same class but then you're going to be annoyed by all these morons who still hasn't even figured out how to come that happened with me my grandfather taught me when I was four years old to read and write and count and so when I came in the first class in school I was super bored I couldn't pay attention and we don't have like the morons in one class and elites in another so the teacher gave me books for the six degree level so I was sitting in the behind reading those books being very bored and that developed a sabotage for me namely that I never did homework I never why should I do homework I already know all this stuff so that became a bad habit so everyone caught up with me by the time you came to the six degree class and that's what happening with you you're complaining of yeah but don't you see if you can realize you have to read a little bit Alex my default view is that that's impossible you look if you can get even 10% to that level but my point with the coalition method is that we don't need 50% enlightenment on any matter we can get you know a critical mass maybe as low as 10% and then a revolution comes about a French revolution comes about just by 10% and because we now have forced with our will our collective will a new normal that new normal will stimulate the morons easier to wake up to higher realities higher other important areas where they have to shift the paradigm because now society is a little better on this small issue that we changed so now we're stimulating people instead of pushing them down because that's really what the fight is about it's about creating collective tools to keep us down or dumb us down or make a devolution versus creating collective tools to race or stimulate us inspire us to better us that's at one level a battle that has gone on for a long time too and I'm sure many of those who actually introduces solutions that aren't solutions they are at best detours and distractions but more likely they are sabotaging mechanism many of those have this same glimmer in their eye when you talk about this you're a true seeker you want a better mental many of them too but they just incredibly misguided and so in many levels it's also a battle of ideas it's always a battle of ideas as the same time as it's a battle of specific issues so I agree with you for the battle of ideas but it's something about you have to choose your battles too if you want to win the war and you can't expect the entire battalion to join you on every single battle you want to go into better you find willing soldiers where you need them and that way you will win the war even if it's not the same brothers and arms in every battle you understand what I mean I understand let me bring it down to a real personal example small one that I think everyone can relate to we have a dog I want to send you a picture of the dog it's this huge huge 150 pound dog that somebody couldn't take care of anymore and my wife who we fostered like 50 dog 60 at this point so Freddie and now is always the case the dog comes in as my wife's dog and winds up being the dog that I have to walk and take care of course I'm walking back from the beach with the dog and I'm walking up to my neighbor who is a big dog person and she's super nice where's the picture I can't see it what do you talk about it let me pull it up or him or her is it a bitch him, him I just love and excuse to say that word political correct norway let's get it let's get the there we are Thanksgiving here's Freddie but you can't look at there's Freddie I can't make out even the race he's huge let's give you a better picture of him oh here he is with the whole fam oh he's a signed girl note he looks like it he's actually a mastiff but you can't see how huge he is right? huge dog so walking back I see my neighbor and I'll walk up just chat with my neighbor but the term the name Fauci came up and she goes oh I love that guy probably nine months ago you know right in the heart of it so right when you hear that you can react in a number of different ways but I have a hard time not reacting at a real visceral level but I've managed to maintain that to a certain extent and I go but Carol I mean have you looked at all into any of the stuff on him? I like him I just think he's a good guy what about gain of function I said do you know what gain of function is no I just I like him give her a Robert Kennedy's book for Christmas okay be a good neighbor it's called the real Anthony Fauci shout out shout out here's my question like we all get that but what do we do with it because what do we do with that at that other spiritual level because she is a good person she has a good heart I've known her for decades and I have deep feelings of affection for we live in the same turf on the same dirt you know and so how are we supposed to hold those people in our lives I'm torn because she's clearly completely moronic about Fauci she just have wrong information people make decisions no she has no she has no interest in that's my point that's the knuckle dragger that's what I thought I thought Richard Cox if I really spent the time explaining to him how ridiculous no virus is how there's hundreds and thousands of journals and journal papers on virology that have been peer-reviewed and can only exist inside of a world like you said a bracketed reality where there's some basic truth fundamentally to viruses and there may be a lot of non-trust but I mean basically it's not a no virus world that is just that is equivalent right so how do we how do we live in that world how do we go forward and this is like this is like a deep question for me it's a question I really think about how do I want to be in the world what do I want to do and that's why I said I pause Skeptico I'm not sure how to go forward but I'm sure that the way I have been going at it is not going to serve me because Skeptico has always been about my journey shared you know it's really just about my journey and the trick is I put it out there and share it so that I can talk to a wider number of people but it's really just my journey and it's still my journey I'm not sure my journey is served by doing it the way that I've done it because of Richard Cox because of Carol next door because of the knuckle draggers in the world who really don't really just want to be kind of left alone they really don't want the truth the truth hasn't been you know you should really the way forward for you is to make a time machine and go back to ancient Egypt because there that's the last culture that had we have enjoyment our current side guest enjoyment is on top of everyone if everybody want to be honest with themselves maximum enjoyment that wasn't the collective paradigm of the ancients for them it was wisdom that was the highest virtue insight the ability to understand as much as possible that's why when we look back we don't understand what anything they were on about the best we can do is to interpret it literally and thinking they were knuckle draggers because we are knuckle draggers so we project but no it's a serious issue and i'm glad you used the neighbor problem i don't have a clear answer for you for once because now you're entering into the domain of the individual you have to make an individual assessment like in your shoes what would i do it depends on what i knew about her but i would have i would need an inkling of interest from her to even bother pushing anything at all i may just do our like obscure question well are you so sure about him well what if there's a shadow side something you know just to put in a seed but you cannot convert someone who is not interested who is not seeking to shift their paradigm that's our problem usually the best way to do it because i've been researching this for years and years through my work through my other stuff and that's that you start changing the information they get and then you see what kind of person they are based on that new information they now have access to some will start questioning or seek elsewhere others will maybe just wholesale reject it because it's too much because they realize it will become out for them a painful paradigm shift yes others will try to maybe bend backwards to make it fit but people have very different reactions and you can only take let's reduce this to sales this is how I train my sales people back in the day I said first of all you can't say anything you don't you're not convinced of you have to believe in the product that's going to make you a real seller because if nothing else the intuition of the buyer will bust you you can have all the right information all the right facts you conveying it without conviction there's something dissonating in your message so you have to make you have to believe in it yourself that's number one then number two they need to either be displeased with the current type of item there this is representing or at least be open for that there's possible to surpass it if they're very in love with the item they already have you can sell to them even if they needed even if you're selling ice and you're in Sahara so it's all about the other person and collectively forget about it this is why I'm going back to the coalition because you can always do the fight for the right thing there and then with those who have woken up to that thing there and then but you can't expect everyone to wake up to everything or even wanting to do it because we live in a reality where most of us are still trying to learn the letters and read whereas we just lucky if enough of us are ahead of that game so we can do something different which is what we're doing I'm just appreciating any time I meet a person I don't think there's one other person in the world who would agree with me about everything if we had enough time and resources to really you know take that battle down I know some people do the mistake of discovering someone that understands them very well and they understand them and then they are we're soul mates everything but the thing is you may have a good chemistry for communication and you may have some common values but there's always going to be discrepancy and you may not even have a better life with this person just because you agree about certain things in fact it should be more on the personal level you agree on the existential level to you know really feel as an existential harmony so this is the best I can do I've given up long ago thinking that I'm just amazed that we can do as much as we do today just compare us to 10 years ago, 50 years ago, 100 years ago there's never been more awakened people than now Alex you'll see is saying the glass is half empty I'm saying it's actually half full because I'm coming from a much more nihilistic and pessimistic outlook on the collective than you are doing you think this battle for truth is actually at some level it's welcome and it can actually change anything again people have to want change they have to be ready for change this is why a certain maturity among the souls are needed for us to take anything up to the next level and how do we even know look we may be artificially stifled you sent me the link to Greer and he's arguing that we've been kept down artificially maybe if someone like Greer were put in in charge of everything and could just dictate how stuff should be so and let's say he did it right so that we were stimulated on every single area I think we could double or maybe triple the level of society functions on but there would still be rapists there will still be you know knuckle draggers there would still be people who's not on board with you know going forward that's just how our class that's the level with functioning on that that's all I can say so okay that's good when it comes to where you're going to take skeptical you should consider then do you want to make a maximum impact then fewer people do you want to go for quantity do you want to awake maximum people number of people then you have to amp down you know the quality I don't think you can do both the maximum awakening and a majority at the same time sorry so I think you got some interesting points because we're dancing around some of the the fundamental issues that I always bring us back to because I love your occultist perspective which you gave us earlier in the show which needs to be fully I think spelled out and appreciated and I don't want to misrepresent it so at any time jump in there and tell me but what I heard you say earlier in the show is that look people who understand that there is this esoteric occulted hidden knowledge have learned that there's a certain practical system for perpetuating that knowledge going forward and one aspect of it is that you don't give it out to everybody and when you do give it out you're kind of careful and you kind of you know it's not for everyone not everyone's ready for it go with the simple story first I like how you connected that to sales because I think that is the sales the sales value system which is the example I always use I have a lot of experience in sales and sales training as well and Jordan Belfort people might remember from the Wolf of Wall Street famous movie and he's a sales trainer and he's written a number of books and as you were going through your experience with training sales people I was thinking of Jordan Belfort and that's one of his things is like hey if you know he what I love about him is it's very black and white in terms of the decision tree you go through and he goes okay if you get to this point and they say no move on you're not going to sell that person now this person but the point of Jordan Belfort and say that's not black magic it is it is mind control it's say this repeat this couch it this way and you can manipulate this person into doing what you want and if they fall into this category then you're going to be less statistically likely to manipulate them in the way that you want so move on to your next call so the intersection this relates back this is why occultism gets a bad name right because you are learning in the process of learning how to perpetuate truth you're also learning how to subvert how to dominate how to you know do all the bad stuff that you sent me in the latest thing of the latest pedophile elite kind of thing that comes up all the time it's like why the hell not I have the power how do I know I have the power if I don't exercise the power in some way so this I think as we return to again and again in our discussion here is the fundamental core issue is how do we walk this line how do we walk this path of being a truth warrior being a light warrior may the truth that is in your heart the virtuous truth that's in your heart how can that always come forward from that perspective right do you understand what I'm saying yeah I have one idea I just want to say about the sales these are the black magicians in sales we know them and they would say you don't have to believe in the product just use the right manipulation tools now there's also a white magic principle in sales and that's the believe in the product thing but at the end of the line that's not how you really spread something it's the trend versus the fashion fashion is imposed upon us if you own all the control mechanisms of information so you have your multinational corporation sure you can day in and day out bombard us with advertisement and yes it will work to a certain extent but then they look with horror and envy on real movements of trends where it comes from the bottom for example yeah something that's how Beatles became popular to take something trivial or you know Paula Quell we didn't have much marketing for his book The Alchemist but it just Harry Potter right nobody could predict it it just happened this is the best way this is the white way it's the natural way and that's why I said to my salespeople you have to believe in it now if you look at how the idea spread we have a very erratic even our sick aspect in our culture and that comes from the monotheistic religions especially Christendom and Islam because they have been using preaching converting people and you would think that's effective because they are the largest religions and then you look at the masons and say no no no you can join us you think you can join us well maybe if you hope through this I hope stuckle and this and that but this bullshit because if you know anything about masons you know you can join them if you really know how it works but the sales pitch is different and it's much better and it's the only goes back to the old thing I don't want to belong to a club that wants me now let's rewind to the religions I said that the conversion religions the preaching religions that didn't become big by preaching that's a misnomer how they really became big was with force it was with a sword in both cases and as soon as they were big then they could continue their campaign with this preaching thing and this conclusions in because humans most humans are habitual so before Christendom came they were habitual of the old religions they weren't enlightened even if then religions were enlightened and it's the same today we are habitual so if they can force a new paradigm on us we will to a certain extent go along with it but that's why I think the battle now is between those who find artificial means to try to influence everyone on the earth at the same time it goes back to what I said two season reviews ago when I said that wow it's a game computer game for the first time the whole of the world is war opened it well with that comes also the information war right so for the first time they may not influence Chinese people the western oligarchs may not in terms of how they would think politically but they can influence us by for example you know the mass reality may be a global thing it's cracking now of course the vaccine reality so certain things they can make us believe and it's still black magic because essentially black magic is scarcity and fear scarcity and fear not inspiration and the truth and that's really the path you are on in so how can you continue that path where you're using where you're trying to appeal to the better nature of people where they want to know the truth hope that they're not too scared not too scarcity you know withdrawn into their own little bubble how can you entice them to come up I'm doing the same and for me I'm coining it as paradigm shifts because people want to believe that they want to expand their worldview people want to believe maybe it's a what we call a life lie but theoretically they think they're interested in truth so I carefully introduce one piece here one piece there one piece here one piece there and if you listen to enough shows eventually many of those dots are going to come together without them intending it and that helps them to want to get to the really bigger picture but I'm very conscientious of the fact that someone comes in for the oak island mystery and they don't care about the show we did about scientists for example but as they fall in love with the show and this is why your show also has an important mission as they fall in love with it they start exploring other areas where I'm poking and the same is happening in your show but in a different way you're more on a monolith journey but you go by a different area in seasons in like I I flirt with it you know within the same season 10 different things you're also going through those 10 different things but you're doing it in a longer ride so to speak so those you have still with you are still sharing that new level and you would have to assume they would get it otherwise they wouldn't keep riding with you and then you pick up new people and they may like I did go back and see where you before that's interesting that's a very interesting experience to see okay so this came before this and I'm with you there too otherwise I wouldn't meet you at where you are now so I don't think the way you're doing it is I don't understand why you have to revisit that entire way because it's working at some level it's working let me say one more thing esoterica yeah one important reason we try to keep it among our own is precisely that it shouldn't fall in the hands of people like the deep state right because you can be sure that they will do anything they can with this to try to make it something negative how can I use this thing to oppress to dumb down to keep them back that's why you have a responsibility when you know something that is good that works share with with it with as many you know let's say it's like Jesus said better to learn people to fish than to give them fish I totally agree but when people are not interested in learning how to fish when they are just too incompetent let's say they don't have legs and arms then you have to keep giving them fish so you need to know how exclusive is this fishing technique you're exploring you want to be let anyone be able to get away well then it's going to be 10 people in your audience man but you want to let them get any type of creature in the ocean well then you can expand it to 100 million people you see what I mean you have to find that balance between quantity and quality that's what esoterica is all about okay with that I'm going to play one more clip okay and then I want to hear what you have to say and then we can move towards predictions adjourning okay predictions predictions and then adjourning so here is a clip from the show that we've mentioned a couple times on my interview with Bernardo Castro let me go ahead and play it and then we'll see what you think on this episode of sceptic a show about rules when to break them still hanging out at the after party and with me Tupac Shakur Believe in Death Row East That's it Believe in God Believe in Death Row East and when to follow them I accept the rules you know laboratory evidence fine that's all I will look at reasoning fine that's all I will base my argument on I will never appeal to my own personal subjective insight and you go a long way it's enough to win after this transition has been accepted then we can review the rules of the game that first clip was from 1996 Tupac Shakur who I included because he was kind of is for breaking rules and famously said play the game but don't let the game play you and the second was from our excellent excellent guest Dr. Bernardo Castro who has been on the show before I highly respect is truly one of the leaders in paradigm change from biological robot meaningless universe to wherever we go next now the rules game thing really has a lot of different meanings as this interview goes on I would just interject that yes it does because as you pointed out I grilled Bernardo pretty hard in terms of his going down the path of the Netherlands global climate change like I always say I had a guy who Nova Scotia global climate change climate change on a global basis based on what's the world looks like out of their window but the point I was really making I can kind of get off the topic is Tupac way back in the day play the game don't let the game play you and that's what it's about for me too no I'm going to play the game I'm not going to let the game play me I'm about my journey I don't care if I have an audience truth be told I never did care so it doesn't matter and if it all goes away then it just keeps going on nothing changes and that's a good reason why I did stop because I didn't say I completely quit but I've stopped because until you stop you can't really talk about stopping you have to stop in order to say this is what it's like to back off this is what it's like to stop playing the game is anyone listening if anyone wants me to go forward I'll figure out whether that makes sense but if no one is calling my name then I can just stay on the bench that's fine too man are you turning our commemoration into an epitaph jeez I didn't know it was this serious look you had a lot of people coming on your show to applaud your project so it shouldn't be the dependent on real response but if it is that should be your cue but no I think you will the deeper you go the smaller the audience you will cater to is but on the other side the more they will follow their absolute boundary or should I say horizon that's how it works like you know I'm involved in like a spiritual group so to speak call it what you want a mystery school a gathering of equal kindred spirits and we are deliberately few we can never become a mass movement it's against the entire thing and it's much better you know the spiritual what's it called trust gets fatigued in huge gatherings like a football stadium it's very limited what you can achieve there I mean if you can get everyone to focus on a basic emotion yes you can manipulate that's what religions have done and that's what political states do but if you want to raise on a simultaneously on as many as much as possible then it has to be a small clique that's how Jesus had 12 disciples right he didn't have 12,000 disciples so some things never change on this level of existence nothing is new under the sun this is one of them this isn't a new problem what we're debating now they debated it in Rome in Greece probably in Egypt you name it India so it's just the means are different we're talking now transmission of information via the ether right so I don't have an answer for you I acknowledge your good questions but I recognize that these questions and that may you may find some comfort in that that these are age old questions and there are solutions of course whether people have been before there are always solutions but you have to find the one that's right for you that really depends enjoy this time or out assess very importantly what you really want to achieve I think that's the most important thing and then the rest will follow if you see what I mean I do I really appreciate your whole everything you're saying I especially appreciate the first part of what you're saying because I think there's some really deep insights there in terms of energy works how the energy works in a small number of people versus how it works in a larger number of people and whether we should seek this kind of crowd push push which is always the draw or whether we should reduce and the one thing I marry that to was what I said is you can't you have to pause you have to I think I have to pause I have to step back in order to go forward I can't continue to do things the way that I've done them and then say this is now this is now different and I think it's just a natural part of the growth process the other thing I think is a natural part of the growth process that I want to tap into going forward is I want to be more connected to truly the spiritual path of truth of justice of not being you know the look I'm all about knowing as much as I can but this isn't this knowing isn't a competition so the knuckle draggers are not my enemy they're just kind of in my way I have to kind of move my shopping cart around them but I don't have to get hung up on that and I think I do sometimes or I think in the same way I always kind of thought the disinformation misinformation co-intel agents need to be exposed so people can see what they're doing maybe not so much maybe what I need to do maybe what we need to do because when I say we you know last time we spoke I talked about I felt a need to bring truth to the truth community to the media community that they're kind of going off the rails well in the last year they've gone further off the rails it's it's just insane it's stupid it's just suffer fools gladly it's just one foolish idea after another it's gone from flat earth to heliocentric you know kind of whatever the opposite of heliocentric is you know so it's like and these ideas have to be presented it has a wokeness to it you know these ideas have to be presented on an equal basis maybe that's true we really can't plant our flag in the ground maybe the sun really does revolve around the earth let's talk about that seriously no we really don't need to talk about it seriously but what we maybe don't need to do also is kind of spend a lot of time worrying about why people are going there and maybe we need to find a connection back to the heart the love the coalition that's in us well the coalition but in your coalition you wanted the big tent this is the big tent small tent thing depending on the case of course but you're complaining about the fragmentation of the counter culture which is real it's true which is the only thing that can help it is the coalition thinking but when it comes to suffer fools gladly well I mean when in Rome right everything will become a battle man you'll end up alone the end is nigh you will carry those signs down the street nobody will listen the more you push on someone who's not ready the more they will retreat this is why the masons are brilliant they are saying no we got something exclusive going here you have to come to us and knock and maybe that's what the rationale of the skeptics remember we discussed this back in a day why are they retreating why are they now creating their own places for discussion but nobody but not discussing with anyone outside maybe because they want to radiate an exclusiveness everybody knows about them now and they know where to find them and now let's make some fun in our own house let's have a party in our own house so people want to come and join our party maybe some kind of strategy like this because we know yes I love this so we can do the same yes that's what's that's what's emerging right now I'm not saying I'm going in this direction but hey hey that's the maybe that's skeptico 3.0 is it's a private club with a small membership please unsubscribe either that or it's a huge club but we have like 10 different parties going on in the same time no that's my house come in come in and if you want if you okay I just like techno party I don't like a classical concert well okay fine but here the door is open you want to come in well I like Al as a conductor I see he can be a DJ there and keep a conductor in the symphony let me peek in the symphony room and see what's going on and then oh I'm enthralled I didn't know I'll even enjoy this I'm sitting down and checking it out or this is not for me I'm retreating back to the techno party this is how people are you can't expect anything less and I for one I cannot choose it's interesting if you choose each each method then because we can assess and evaluate every year we hook up right how does it work for you I think in the inspiration model I think that if stuff was pedagogically angled to everyone I think many of these knuckle draggers if they realized there was a real option to dragging knuckles they would maybe take that option because everybody has inside them as you started out this show to declare everybody has this longing we're all part of the same we're all of the light so even the hardest sleeper can be woken but we have to again when in Rome we have to tailor it to the individual they all need different angles into the awakening and if you push it you're going to scare them away Bernardo Castro who you tortured with Claremet Gate approach I mean you know you could have him on and on and on for other subject that day and he would be a never-ending resource but if he retreats and recoils and becomes skeptical because you push an issue a button he's not ready to and I don't mean to like hang him out to dry this goes for all of us no because he doesn't he does not he is you know our conversation was very engaging and he was in it to the beginning he handled it like a man he did and he handled it like not only yeah like hey you want to go throw down let's go I respect the shit out of that we have to move on to this so as we move towards wrapping this up what else do you have from Forum Boreal? yeah I have a last issue and we can go on because I want to play a clip of my show and get your comment on it awesome this is one of our contention spots I think but it doesn't need to be but if it is so be it but I really want to pick your brain on this because we've been dancing around it I want to play the end of my show called Not UAPs Explained it's called Portal of High Strangeness now let's see if I can share with you Any culture will tend to interpret any new phenomenon in terms of its own technology have this all occurred in the Middle Ages that have been given a totally different interpretation of religious interpretation we've entered the space age therefore it is very logical for a new phenomenon this sort to be interpreted in terms of our own advanced technology it's also complicated by the fact that astronomy has arrived at the point we know enough now about the evolution of stars to make it extremely likely that there are many other intelligences in the universe but there I think we have to follow Arthur C. Clark in pointing out that we take perhaps a much too narrow view of what intelligence in Hawaii is in the universe may be we live on a water planet it's very logical therefore our bodies are mostly water it could be that our consciousness expresses itself through protoplasm and through our particular chemistry there are bits of information today indicating that for instance George Warhol at Harvard feel that consciousness is the most important factor and that consciousness can exist in many forms we are one of those forms so hey as somebody said the whole question of this trying to communicate with life elsewhere is like the not yet born talking to the long since dead because it takes so long for anything to get further more an advanced civilization might regard radio as we regard jungle drummers or smoke signals they may long since surpass the radio stage of communication but still I think it's important that this program continue because it is an adventure and it should be done and it would be philosophically important to find out that there is some intelligence elsewhere so my own philosophical feeling about the UFO phenomenon is that when all is said and done it represents some form of intelligence but whether that intelligence is from great distances away or whether it is perhaps much closer to us in a parallel reality or another dimension or whether it is in some strange way a product of our own intelligence, our own psyche I don't know this is the research problem that seems to be program that it seems to have an intelligence of its own I think is unmistakable if anyone who studies the subject just sees that we must not go to the conclusion that because it has an intelligence of its own it is necessarily visitors from outer space it may be in some strange way connected with that intelligence if that intelligence can in some way project itself down here that's the quote I wanted to share with you this was of course Dr. Arlen Heineck I'm sure you're aware of him it's just super outdated it's no longer relevant actually it's not outdated he was ahead of his time in there he gave us it's outdated you just go to my interview with Bernardo Kastrup like Bernardo is in embodiment of this kind of thing that you're talking about you know he has to acknowledge UFOs because they've been made incredibly public because he's not entitled to his own facts that's why he has to acknowledge it exactly and just so people understand what you're saying that it is now fact that they're so and what Bernardo still likes to smile and chuckle a little bit at the idea of ET and what the clip I played for Bernardo if you remember from that show was I said oh okay great Bernardo you now have this really cool foundation that this billionaire from the Netherlands has set you up and sent you you're now able to pursue your own path in terms of consciousness what are your directors oh let's see here it's Jeffrey Kreiple from Rice University been on the show multiple times let's listen to Jeffrey Kreiple's interview with oh my god yeah with Dr. Diana Walsh Pasolka and Whitley Streber and let's take note of the fact that Jeffrey Kreiple wrote a book with Whitley Streber just to remind folks Whitley is probably the most known abductee, alien abductee in history, wrote the book Communion had the thing on the cover with the alien all the rest of this stuff has been on this show multiple times tells a story of MK ultra abduction the whole thing so now Bernardo is kind of in a rock and a tough in a hard place right this Jeff Kreiple is on his advisory board of the Ascension Foundation they're in sync on consciousness and all the rest of this but wait a minute here he is totally he's written a book with Whitley Streber he's totally on board with the fact that Whitley has had the abduction experience he has shared the abduction experience with other people who visited the cabin right so Whitley says hey these aliens come in and abduct me and now he has visitors to his house and they go holy shit there were aliens in the cabin last night and he goes yeah that's what I've been telling you guys and also in that interview is Dr. Diana Walsh Posolka who is religious studies professor in North Carolina and just kind of stumbled into the UFO thing but what does she tell all of us in that interview that I played is that hey this is back to the scientific method the thing that really differentiated my book American Cosmic is that I did field research I was out there with Tyler Durden soon in them and we collected samples the same that I always remind people the same that Dr. Jacques Valais the same kind that Jacques Valais keeps in his pocket that are unexplainable from a material standpoint you take our best scientists and you say how would we manufacture this material here on our planet and they go can't do it we don't know how to do this is this organic material no this looks like material that was engineered by some highly intelligent because look how it's layered kind of like our little computer chips so no the discussion has moved past well we don't really know what it is and maybe they're listening to the radio or not no this is again kind of this is what drives people nuts about because I sound so confident and I'm not confident I'm just saying Occam's razor suggest the best evidence suggest that is highly likely that all these traditional cultures throughout time like the Native American cultures or the cultures in Africa who said see those stars up there that's where they came from and they came down and told us that's where they came from and if you look really carefully through your telescopes that aren't advanced enough to see it you'll see that that star is really a twin star and then 50 years later they look and go oh shit we didn't have the telescope to say but those fricking Africans out there that don't even have a written language it is a fricking twin star but they haven't it's so inherited wisdom you've seen ancient apocalypses on Netflix with the Hancock do you get my point you get my point is the discussion I've always gotten your point it's you who doesn't get mine I think then tell me because the discussion has moved past Occam's razor suggests that the most parsimonious answer to the ET question is they come from other fricking planets we don't know how they get here and we don't know how they cross that barrier but the burden of proof is on those who and is there inter dimensionality to it of course our best guess in terms of how they travel here suggests some kind of interdimensional reality but it doesn't preclude what we generally experience and understand to be ET is that ET is somehow here is somehow among us has always been among us has been a part of this that is the most parsimonious explanation for the data at hand and midget Nazis at Roswell is probably not the most parsimonious explanation okay well I follow you all the way until you come with the conclusion that business no and you have to back it up but I agree about we're not entitled to our own facts and I agree that we have to use Occam's razor now and consider the following first of all you know who agrees with you you know who applause that we should have this alien ET perspective just to this isn't my big argument against it I'm just making you aware of which tent you just stumbled into that's the CAA's tent it's the Pentagon's tent it's Tom DeLonge who you love his tent all of these people are saying no it's a threat they these are spaceships but that's not you're mixing you're mixing two things one is the I would agree with you but you're conflating two things one is the reality of the ET presence and the second is that there's some kind of national security threat that the only response is the Pentagon I mean the second is is absurd but the movie look it's a both the both been pushing the fair element you know invasion of the bodies natures or Independence Day but they also are pushing the little green man on Mars perspective in addition the movie ET is an example there's many other movies where the aliens aren't a bad guy so and latest now is this avatar thing so no you are in bed whether you like it or not at least stand up and admit that and just say okay coincidentally I'm in bed with a bad guy no no you're misunderstanding you're misunderstanding the understanding of the evidence that suggests that we are we haven't discussed the evidence yet but we will but it has nothing to do with how you're saying who agrees with you but that doesn't it doesn't you know you could guilty by association you know I mean is everyone be suspicious of everyone in Germany who is of a particular a political party are they all neo-nazis just because they right you know it doesn't that's not how we that's not how we do things but that's not my point I'm saying the big forces the forces with the money and the decisions are endorsing this paradigm in fact they won't we know from Werner von Braun who admitted that they're gonna make fair of rogue comments they're gonna make fair of nations of concern terrorism and the last card will be invasion from space so there is a paradigm that is backed up whether it's right or wrong maybe it's right maybe that's why they admit it but this paradigm has been backed up from Hollywood etc it was the first thing even before the UFO flaps in after the war it was still a belief how it is how I gotta jump in there again because I just I feel like you don't really understand the whole playing field on the UFO I feel like you're kind of we haven't even gotten to the discussion I'm still hold on I think I think you're slow I think you're kind of slow to the party the debates I've been having over the last couple of years are with people like Grant Cameron who is very much in the ET camp but is also in the consciousness camp and believes that ET but these folks are have somehow pigeon hold themselves into the thing that there can be no bad that ET is good this is kind of the origin Stephen Greer Stephen Greer times 10 which is the so when those people you go okay what about the evidence of sexual contact sexual rape between ET what are we supposed to do with that whether we take it mutilation but that's not what I want to discuss no you're taking the let me just make sure but here's my point you you could if you want to pigeon hold me with the Pentagon folks you could just as easily pigeon hold me with Grant Cameron and Ray Hernandez and the absolutely love and light the majority well neither one it goes back to the 30s that's when people started to believe in little green man on other planets this is and you're talking as if this is some kind of revolution maybe you relate to this party but this party has been going on since before the Second World War all I'm saying is before I haven't even discussed the case yet but all I'm saying is that the views I'm pointing to as potential more plausible explanations are getting less air by the power now that's all now guilty by you are not guilty Cameron is a true believer he's not guilty but I find it interesting at least that the wrong people are endorsing because these are the same people who also endorsed air balloon and swamp gas because they know a certain segment won't buy the explanation that the skeptics will buy so we need to cater to them too we throw them a bone and that's your alien in my view now let's get to the facts Jacques Valais and Richard Dolan have both done a very interesting thing that very few has done in this field which is the basic you should do and that's and I asked Dr. Elling strong that I interviewed scientists who say investigating this in Norway has done since the 80s if you folks shelter for my show portal of strange highness it's the longest running white public investigation of U.S. peace in the world so and I asked him some of these questions to and he has carried under right calculations because he's an engineer and Dolan has done does it and also Valais and Valais I read his analysis at the end of my interview with Nick Cook on it was called Pentagon's biggest secret I think you've you heard that interview did you remember and then I interviewed Nick Cook as a result of your but you remember that I read a quote of Valais at the end there and this quote is called it's too many landings and what Valais does Dolan has done the same very simple math very simple you just take account for the facts and you calculate how many landings would there be if we buy into that these are spacecraft from other planets that coincidentally discovered often against their will maybe it was a crash landing maybe they were landing to fix something maybe they were landing to whatever and I don't remember the exact number now but they had to land like millions of times for this to be a real for what it is so his only conclusion would be that whatever they are they are staged in other words they are discovered because they want to be discovered it's an intentional call manipulation whatever it is it's intentional that's the only conclusion you can come that I can see from those hard data that they have worked out and be my guest to go through this data and come with a better explanation but that doesn't explain anything it just tells us that they want to that it's staged somehow now you said I don't agree with the assumptions behind that calculation yes no I mean there's a lot of numbers yes and there's just a lot of huge assumptions that people are making in terms of what would they be those huge assumptions one of the you just watched the thing with Steven Greer right in his CE5 protocol do you remember the CE5 protocol it is a conscious a meditative right extended consciousness connection with ET that directs ET into the planet on where to create a sighting okay and that's hard for people to accept I don't know that I accept it I'm not saying that it's true but if you do look at the evidence like of the famous Nimitz tic-tac right you're on the same page I interviewed Kevin Day one of the guy who was on deck on the ship look through the things saw the things one small aspect of that that a lot of people know but some people forget is that the fighters are sent up to intercept the tic-tac ET's out in the ocean 30 miles outside my window here in San Diego and they go and they intercept ET and ET's like boom you know just like 60,000 miles an hour and all this so they have a predetermined safe space that they're going to go to this is some coordinate in space that these that are super spot fast fighters are going to fly to they fly to that space you know it's like 50 miles five miles up and 50 miles over and who's there? ET yes because it's all about consciousness you can't you can't get around ET just by thinking that we have a plan meet behind the shed you know well ET somehow has some apparently some kind of telepathic link in this extent okay right so that is not in Dolan's freaking calculation and we have something else to talk about when we talk about Dolan that I'll get to in a minute this is exactly what they're proving these guys when they do the calculations they're proving that these aren't random aircraft being interrupted or discovered by us but to the point though in fact you just made a case for that but your interpretation of the data was that then we haven't gotten to that yet well we got to it partially because you're partial interpretation I managed to mention yeah I didn't even start my rounds well you did kind of disparage the spaceship from other planet hypothesis that was my first argument against it but that doesn't now that argument has to go away right because now CE5 is bringing in spacecraft from another planet and when I read Greer's book I read Greer's book about that back in the day when I was a meditation instructor of course he had me long before he said the word meditation my point is that logically there is no connection between rationally logically no connection between what you said in terms of there's some kind of consciousness connection that's directing the spacecraft to there aren't really spacecraft there are two separate things now well your data I don't see how your data in that case contradicts the spacecraft from another planet because in my view we are talking about first of all UF4 or UAP is just that term I'll never say UAP actually it's a better term because they are it's mind control they are unknown, they are area and they are phenomenal they're not always objects but just so everybody knows when they say UAP what they are saying is we are going to divide and rule again so we have this group of people out there who have some understanding some grounding in UFO they actually have some knowledge because like you said we have this incredible open society where you can give a and they know stuff about UFO now we are telling all those people well you don't really know anything because it's now all UAP it doesn't matter otherwise it's the same people who invented UAP who invented UFO it's the same fucking people it's a military term I don't care you gotta care when I talked to Richard Dolan and I interviewed Richard Dolan and I got a circle back and get to I hate the term circle back but I'm dying to talk to Richard Dolan again when I talked to him a couple years ago when the Nimitz thing first broke and to me it seemed obvious the whole disclosure the whole Peter Lavenda fake, fake, fake intelligence intelligence Tom DeLong fake, fake, fake Lou Elizondo, fake, fake, fake that it was all just a game and I went to Dolan and I said come on this is a political Psyop right? I mean this is a counter intelligence agent who's leading who's coming out and saying here is the truth you know we have Peter Lavenda oh I got together with Tom DeLong we decided the only way we could get to the truth is to go to the CIA aren't the alarm bells going off in your head and Dolan goes no, no I really think it's I think this is this is legit this guy's a legit whistleblower and I was dumbfounded I still don't know so I don't know if he just made a mistake or what but clearly at this point we all know it was fake we all know Lou Elizondo as a counter intelligence agent no it's the opposite we all know that they achieved what they wanted they wanted to get the UFO thing whitewashed in the open for whatever selfish reasons they had because they're not of course Jesus and they went with a method that work now was that hijacked or endorsed by some part of the power elite probably doesn't matter they achieved what they wanted which was to make it out in open now they achieved it too little credit has gone to the Tom DeLong folks for this you attack them for the fact that New York Times etc has written about it but at the same time that's what everybody has been bitching about now my local newspaper writing about it I can finally ask any guest I want the UFO question and they won't recoil from it because everybody knows now it's clean now that doesn't it's not an either or here it doesn't mean that these are Jesus heroes but you know what we're discussing something that why do we always end up discussing whether they are Syop I think it's incrementally less important and interesting than what I wanted to discuss namely the nature of the UAPs and I have a show now that's not out yet it's called UAPs Explained and that's a pretty bold statement but they are I'm not saying it's the only explanation I'm not saying we say who they are or where they come from but David Serrida definitely explains how they are working and both him and me kind of agree based on the data you probably seen the Heather incident footage etc they look much more like entities than they do crafts most of them they look like fish in an aquarium and we discussed how they they can be actually alive because we know that already down on earth when they now have come out and said yeah we are taking we are measuring UV frequencies and we're seeing what can be defined as life forms there this is rather new but this fits with what me and him has been thinking all this time namely that these are and this explains why the military can have the audacity to shoot at them to they completed this if the military really thought these were humanoids in spacecraft from another place they would freak out it would be a completely different discussion than what we're actually having it's as if the military knows they pose no real threat and that's why they're trying to be this tough guy against them but of course like you say they have some aspects in their nature that far surpasses our little ant kind of thing so I'm saying the this phenomenon which is a terminology and compasses many different unknowns one of them is also a mechanical technological aspect because we know for sure there are crafts wherever they come from whoever are operating them and I think the huge majority of these crafts are from earth they are and they may be actually they may have studied because Cereda and I dare you to listen to the show explains how it works and they may have studied these entities whatever they are and then converted it to technology to mechanics that may be one but we also have the ancient connection and when you say oh the ancient the Africans knew yes but it's not last that they were apes and someone came and enlightened them it's that they are a remnant of an ancient civilization that not only had his knowledge but also mastered space travel I don't understand why the reverse engineering of alien craft gets how it how that gets you anywhere in terms of this discussion absolutely we've reverse engineered alien craft there's no bodies and there's no craft pointing to alien at this time there are claims you just said you just said we reverse engineered technology is based on entities or ancient yes but why not why not Bob Lazar in Area 51 and where he worked on the craft why not Steven Greer who says he's completely real Bob Lazar when he says these are aliens he even says it himself I'm speculating he says I don't know he says I've seen nine different craft Richard Steven Greer's not bodies but the point is it's such a loose argument that you're making he says that he's that he has seen bodies and he has seen autopsy but take that out for a second Lazar says that yes and he said his first day he said his first day on the job he walked past a room and there was a window and he saw the alien bodies and he later talked to people and they said here's how many we have and Steven Greer you know you just listen to that interview he said he's interviewed multiple people who said that we have this many craft and this many bodies and some of them were alive and I followed his press conference as I know these people he has helped bring forward now all of them aren't solid of course these info people are there too but yeah basically he did he did do a huge lifting for ufology you had the disclosure project you had the citizens disclosure thing that Dolan was involved with and the other guy was he I forgot his name ufologist you had the secret space program conferences before the fake one that was done by Will Cook and Corey Good and those so that's three important goalposts in disclosure and then the fourth is the Tom DeLonge project that everybody still insists is some kind of Psyope but if it's a Psyope it's the very Psyope in the world because the only thing they've achieved since then is to annoy Pentagon because Pentagon now is forced to try to spin the entire thing into its Russians and the Chinese because they can't put the spirit back into the lamp and say there's no thing as a UFO so that has been achieved and if it was a Psyope I applauded because it's fucking high time people take the phenomena seriously so we can start to discuss what's behind it which we can do freely now just on this little inside baseball show we're doing today but I can do it with any guest I have no matter why they're coming on thanks to that effort and honestly my take on it hasn't changed much I still think that these insiders did it partially for selfish reasons but also partially because they always been new for nuts helped put off all these people have always been into this thing and they wanted this out there and they managed it and they wanted to profit from it I don't know if they managed that but and maybe they were also played is to some extent maybe maybe there was a faction among the elite that wanted it out and they back them maybe I don't know these things but what I do know is it's annoying the neocorns to no end you see there is not hard to see the deniers are still at it and they're trying to put spin this into something that can serve them because it doesn't serve them that everybody's no interested in it so you have yet to convince me of two things Alex and I am open to it number one explain how this is a sinister sigh up and not just what it seems to be according to Occam's racer that's number one and number two where do you get this alien from and with that I mean 3d humanoids on a different planet I've never seen a link even when I Dolan is an adherent to this and I pushed him first time I had him on and he had to admit that well okay it's going by assumption because there's no evidence connecting it to there's a lot of inferences his wife is a first person witness to it so yeah but that doesn't mean it's an alien people are just well that it's not necessarily aliens okay so that for the new skeptico the private party skeptico okay we can start right there and I'll drop a name for you that you can go everyone should go and read Jeremy McGowan and his blog post on Louis Elizondo and the truth about Jeremy McGowan I was almost going to make this show about the interviews I haven't done this year because Jeremy McGowan is the first person who's legitimate ghosted me he was so excited to be on the show he was like oh it's an honor I don't know why I thought it was an honor but anyways he's on the show right there we're ready to record it doesn't show up just falls off the earth doesn't respond and the person who connected with me with him starts communicating he's like well yeah you know I'm kind of doing this kind of do that so but everyone should still read his article and the other one is on the election anyways so okay so that's suspicious he doesn't want to back up his accusations oh no his accusations are rock solid you go listen to him he has all the proof has been laid out why is he afraid then people are people are people okay predictions I guess predictions and tell us what's going on without me the united okay okay so okay predictions damn let's not be you start with me yeah don't you have any predictions my predictions would be kind of the stuff that we talked about during the show in terms of I think things are much more complicated at a global level than we think and that I do think there's a light there's on a practical kind of invest make money kind of thing there's a light at the end of the tunnel in terms of the globalist agenda it doesn't seem to be moving forward the way we thought in an inevitable way and that will be revealed further and further in the next year it's losing steam they're not going to print thirty trillion dollars in in stupid green echo stuff and that is what they were playing for and when they lose the ability to do that and when the dollar does kind of get supremacy and the leash that's on China gets pulled tighter and tighter tighter the choke chain it's going to be back to business as usual which some people are going to like and some people aren't but from my rich ass perspective in Del Mar California that's just fine yeah well I think it's easier to predict next year than the year after because there is an awakening going on and that awakening may be hijacked when Trump takes over again if he takes over or the Republicans put it like that would be better if they had won both houses because we will see a much bigger dishwashing of the covid thing but don't underestimate enormous awakening going on right now Elon Musk what he's doing I think he will regret it but he's opening the floodgate basically at Twitter now you can I sent you the video did you see it the one called suddenly death yeah yeah these things are going to force open it actually dovetails to what I said last year and that's that when you feel it on your own body that's when you can't have the luxury of you know entertaining a problem academically because now it's hard on reality and this is a blessing in disguise now just like the Omicron kind of took the power out of covid so eventually people are waking up to that it's not that big a deal anymore if it indeed ever was for most of us for some yeah it sure is but same vein I think the vaccine reality because that's such a hard long before covid they've been pushing the vaccine thing that you couldn't question it you were completely arranged outcast if you question vaccines at all now the reason many have covered up the problem with the vaccine is precisely because the low level people who are innocent like a nurse or whatever and they think oh my god there's so many people getting hurt but I can't I have to deny this I can't support this coming out because then people question all of vaccines and then you know I want a good thing and I believe the data I have is good therefore I do a bad thing to cover up for what I believe will be a worse thing and they don't understand that they are just then being useful tools right and this is for the first time is cracking people are going to do that they are going to question so much more not just other vaccines but everything to do with the pandemic and then they're going to start questioning other things too like the money level and everything so I'm not saying it will be a global awakening I'm still back to where I said that we have to go by coalitions many people will wake up in one thing others to another but it's going to be a critical mass too many are going to be critical to the powers that be because never mind which field people are waking up to you know where the crumbs always end up it's the same fucking power elite or I should say the stooges of the real power elite the symbols the puppets of the real puppet masters and when they fall that's going to be so interesting so yeah next year I think it's going to be one big step in that direction and that will help on the geopolitical level it will create problems there too because what they really have per today is the media is the information was the spin is the propaganda that's where the West is strongest for today and although there are back and forth back and forth they do so many you know for example the Nord Stream everybody know now it was the ME5 and CIA together so when in real time people are waking up to these things so quickly I don't see how they can keep it going anymore it's like reaching a critical mass or a better term they talk about this event horizon thing it seems to be very short in the distance on so many levels and I'm just happy I'm around to see it because even if people wake up and let's say they overthrow the power elite what could you replace it could be worse I'm not saying it's like hallelujah time but like the Chinese said we live in interesting times indeed and I'm happy to be in for the ride I embrace changes yes we have no alternative do we well I guess we could always do an Epstein you know you know one of my spiritual guideposts named Curly Baba the Ram Dass Guru in India when the guys first went there and met him and they were dropping acid and just wanted to do anything they could do to become enlightened he said oh it's easy see that rock there go tie it around your neck and throw it in the lake over there you'll get it you know and it's like this is your discussion the last point about we all know death so once we put that's an important boundary and that's what you're pointing out last time in the crossing of that boundary and then it draws the line that we are on the other side of that so all the decisions we make are yes we live in interesting times are not interesting times it doesn't matter we just are here right now and trying to let the light shine through people can choose to metaphorically take that stone and throw themselves in the lake oh well said they can choose to remain in the forest refusing to see anything not understanding what and those you know what the most dangerous people today are the lowest informed because because they are the engine they are the gasoline in the engine that whoever are screwing with us all these different levels are relying upon so this is why we don't have the luxury Alex of stopping exploiting the rare opportunity we have to reach people it's so rare if you look historically 100 years ago you and me would have to go with these signs saying the end is now through the streets and ring the bell that's the best we could do to reach people so people have the option to find us and for me I go by those who particularly take to my taste which is not mainstream at all and then we need someone like you who can cater to your approach and then we're all cogs in the big machine and the good machine well you continue to be an inspiration a good point I love talking to you you give me a new tagline I mean skeptical please unsubscribe please unsubscribe please do not share or like it was the inevitable place you had to end up right exactly yeah yeah and you can afford doing that too you can afford that experiment but yeah maybe you should go that route I'm kind of going the opposite one I'm kind of having multiple parties going on hoping they will rub off on each other hoping they will create some kind of resonance some kind of synergy effect and you want to go deep deep deep deep deep into the core of it and I think both are warranted so we're going to be great that we keep in touch and you know feel a finger on the pulse every now and then absolutely but we're not done with the alien discussion I want to return to that in the future okay all right I haven't even made my case all right oh yeah great okay thanks a lot for for this session and see you at the end of this part of the travel awesome Al terrific thank you so much okay bro later take care thanks again to Al for joining me today on Skeptico though one question I had to tee up from the show is what direction do you think Skeptico should go in the future I have some definite ideas about how and when and if I should go forward but I'd love to hear your thoughts too so let me hear from you and until next time take care and bye for now