 Hello everybody. My name is Ray Dogum and welcome to the Hyperledger Healthcare Special Interest Group meeting. We hold these meetings every two weeks. I am the co-chair and here we have about three or four people here. Erica is the co-chair as well. I have a beer bower. I have Elizabeth Green on and Doug Bullitt. Thanks guys for joining today. These meetings are recorded so anything you do say will be in a subject to the Linux Foundation Antitrust policy and they're published. The videos are published on YouTube as well. So if you do hear anything, if you have any questions or comments throughout this discussion and you're viewing this after the meeting, feel free to leave some comments. We'd love to hear your questions and thoughts on the subject matter that we discuss here. So I don't think there's anyone new on so I'm going to go ahead and get started with some just a request if there's any community announcements that you guys would like to share. So in that case, I want to get started here and discuss or just bring to your attention some of the upcoming events that are happening. Right now actually in Boston there's the MedTech conference going on. Lots of good speakers there. So if anyone has attended or is attending, yeah, let us know how you thought of that conference. On November 7th through the 11th, there's the IEEE Global Emerging Technologies Forum. This is a great event as well. You should check it out. Part of the agenda includes Hyperledger Blockchain. So this should be a good one and it's all virtual and it's five days long. So that could be a really, really cool one to check out. November 9th through the 10th in London, UK, the Token 2049 Europe Conference will be going on. You can check out the link to all this in this public Confluence page as well. Next we have on November 13th through the 16th in Las Vegas, the Health 2022 Conference major event. Lots of great speakers here. A big production, if you haven't heard of this one. December 1st through the 2nd in London, the Blockchain Expo Global event will be going on. Also that'll be partially virtual as well. So lots of really great speakers here as well from many different companies, including a lot of enterprise existing companies. I'm just looking here FedEx, Citigroup, BP, GE. So there's a lot of big companies here that are in the enterprise space. And then finally, December 5th through the 6th in California, the Next Generation Patient Experience Conference will be going on. So these are just a select few of the events in the healthcare and blockchain world. I'm sure there's others if you have one that you want to share. Feel free to add them in the comments. All right. Does anyone have any other events that they are attending or plan to attend that they want to share here? Okay. And let's dig into some of the interesting articles that I happened to come across over the last couple of weeks. This first one is interesting. Pretty sure it's about Sweatcoin, which is a platform that's been around for a few years now. And they've been trying to basically reward users who have, they collect steps on their apps or on their phone. And the more steps that you do per day, the more tokens that you're rewarded with. And basically what this article is saying that in aggregate, all this data is sort of becoming a data union. And what that means is the people, the individuals that are producing this share to earn tokens, they're collectively empowering themselves as opposed to having large companies like Google or Facebook, et cetera, to monetize their data. So in a way, they are monetizing their data instead of these larger traditional Web 2 companies. So in here it says, Sweatcoin, the mobile app that rewards people simply for moving has proven data unions can work at scale. So there's many companies like this that do this share to earn or sweat to earn sort of model. But Sweatcoin seems to be one that is showing a lot of success. And it talks about what's their secret sauce here. And it's really, they argue, it's really about the way that they present the data to the user. So here it says, while most data unions have believed their members won't care much about the data that they're sharing, the Sweat team focused tirelessly on building a community around step data. They put data first and don't try to bury it in almost every way the data is their mission to create a healthier planet. So I thought this was interesting while just quoting here, while the Sweat app rewards people instantly for generating movement, until this year, those rewards have been paid out in points rather than transform the tokens. So originally they didn't have tokens, they were actually just rewarding their users with points managed by a centralized company, Sweatcoin. But now it seems they have crypto tokens and while the points are instant and could be spent in consumer-facing marketplace for exclusive deals and merchandise, members couldn't transfer those points into cash. But now I believe they could. So I don't know if anyone's actually used Sweatcoin, I have. It's pretty interesting. The app is really smooth. It feels like I'm monetizing my activity, so that's always good. And yeah, I just think this concept of a data union is really interesting for the future of decentralized health. Wait, this is Wendy. I'm just curious. Hello, hello everyone. Is there a fee to join? No, it's free to join. At least it was when I joined. Okay. Let me see here. So it says very clearly on their website that they will not sell vast amount of geolocation and wellness data they now collect even though it would appear that this is one of the most valuable assets. Yeah, I don't, there is no fee to join. Okay. Wow. That's great. Yeah. And if someone thinks otherwise, please let us know. I'm not an expert in Sweatcoin. However, data, so it says here, however, data monetization is very much on the agenda. The CEO, the founder, has said he does want to offer Sweat members with the choice to monetize their data. Of course, now they have numbers. Those fully opt-in or zero-party data sets will be ever more valuable at scale. So again, this is a complete reversal of the usual data union tactics and it has worked as a charm. So worth checking that out. The next article that was important to discuss here was, and this is a broader trend that we're seeing. I don't have membership to this and I was able to access it before, but let me see if I could find another similar article. Meanwhile, I've been trying to find an app like Dataring, like whatever it is, but then I found this one called Ouro Ring and it seemed to be similar. It seems like eventually you'll be able to get all of these devices to track what you eat, how you meditate, exercise, et cetera, lay out the data for you the way, say, the air table or data plot or whatever it's called does, and then you can monetize that if you wish already, right? You don't need them to monetize it for you, but I'd like to know if anybody knows. If you can list some of those apps in the chat, maybe we can synchronize them. I put one in the chat. Awesome. Thanks, Elizabeth. Yeah, we see it. Ouro Ring. Yeah, and they've also been scaling pretty well. I know my brother wears an Ouro Ring, so he loves it. Okay, so I was able to load the page. The Mayo Clinic, which we all know is one of the largest and most respected health systems in the US, it warns it won't take most Medicare Advantage plans. So recently, and I'm not an expert in Medicare Advantage, so if there's others in here that want to share their perspective, Mayo Clinic sent letters this fall to eligible Medicare beneficiaries received care at its Arizona and Florida facilities in the last three years, warning them that it is out of state with most Medicare Advantage plans. So previously accepted, now not accepting, so this is going to be a major impact to people with Medicare Advantage plans. And if Mayo Clinic is doing this, I'm sure many other health systems are doing this, which is going to put some of these patients really at risk of not having the financial ability to pay for some of these services. So just to clarify here, this notice allows the patient to make an informed selection of coverage if the patient would like to seek a plan that has Mayo Clinic in network. So again, more complications with the landscape of Medicare in the United States due to some recent laws that were passed. And I bring this up mainly because I do believe that the future of healthcare could be more simplified. And I think blockchain Web 3 DLT have the potential to make things more transparent and provide some stability for a lot of these patients who might not have specifically financial stability for patients who are going either employee to employee year to year, not really sure what the next year is going to hold for their health plans. So here as a broker, it's important for anyone marketing Medicare Advantage plans to be aware of the network including hospitals. The network information needs to be made clear to the consumer. So yeah, pretty big challenge. And I think just one more quote here. 1.4 million people each year with serious or complex illness for all 50 states and 140 countries. So yeah, any thoughts here on this or any perspectives from group? Sounds like similar to fraud because patients think that Medicare Advantage is Medicare and Medicare covers everything. And so I think when the advantage as an HMO is it or what kind of a healthcare plan is advantage that makes it different from Medicare? I believe it had some additional. You know what? I'm not going to not really sure exactly. I don't want to say the wrong thing here, but I do know it has something to do with medications, I believe. So it basically includes additional financial support for medications. So yeah, I'm going to hope that some of the people listening might have some additional information to share and would love their comments as well. Just going to load the agenda back up here. All right. The next article thought this was pretty interesting claiming that Apple is going to launch a health insurance plan in 2024. And I think that would be quite remarkable for a tech company like Apple to get involved in the health insurance space or in the market. This is definitely going to put some pressure on existing traditional large insurers. And I think Apple is pretty well positioned to make an impact here and disrupt how traditional insurers are working. They have a lot of the existing consumer data. Collectively, if they take all the information they collect from their iWatch, their iPhones, and etc. from consumers, this can impact the way they do business. So yeah, so here, this subtitle says Apple Watch or Trojan Horse, kind of stating that this, the Apple Watch is really like the way into people's health space or health insurance and just general health services space potentially. So such a move would raise questions over whether Apple launched a watch with the long-term goal of entering the lucrative health insurance market. And is there any information in that article as to where they will be offering these insurance plans? Yeah, so I mean like what states, I don't think they specifically say what states they're going to start in, but that's a good point because each state does have specific laws around how. Yeah, I was just curious, so since I was just doing a quick search, it looks like they offer, I don't know if this, it says Apple Health and it's offered in the state of Washington, but it could just be for its own employees that work there. I was just trying to learn more. I'm intrigued at how they would make this work. Me too. I think, you know, it'll be interesting to see this happen. And I don't know if they've been involved in sort of acquiring existing insurance companies, that might be one way for them to kind of jump into it. And there's this last sentence here, it says the analysts predict that by 2030 a third of Apple's revenue will come from software and services. It currently represents just a quarter of the business. If you want to know the technical details with a patient's consent, the physician would be able to search through patient's data and find the patient who they think is most likely to succeed with their treatments and choose that patient over others. And supposing the Apple watch has a smoke detector on it and the doctor, the physician only wants to take patients who do not smoke, then they would choose the patient with a smoke detector that has never gone off or that rarely ever goes off and presume that that patient doesn't smoke. Because, you know, as long as maybe there's a way to tell if the patient was actually wearing the Apple watch when, you know, during the time in question. Wow. Yeah, and that brings up a lot of privacy concerns and thoughts there too. Well, let me do the patient consent. So, for example, I would gladly give consent because my reputation is excellent. I do everything right, everything possible. And so the physician will look at my chart, my data and say, wow, this is a model patient. If this, if my new treatment works with anyone, it will work for this patient. And so I would get, maybe get a free clinical trial procedure done. Right now, clinical trials are actually charging people, charging their human subjects to let them use their bodies to try out something new that might fail or be fatal. Can you explain more about that, Elizabeth? I had, I had spent my entire career in clinical trials and I had not heard that. Tell me more. Of what part? About charging patients. Oh, so in California, there are stem cell treatments that are, they're not standard of care. Anything between an initial concept and standard of care could be a clinical trial. Okay. And so, you know, they, they, they, they believe that doctors believe that there's enough work done to show that it works in most patients or say more than half of the patients. So now they're ready to start charging and they charge maybe three, four thousand dollars for a treatment. But when, if it were actually a clinical trial, it would cost anything or the human subject would actually get paid for their time. And so there's a, there's a huge controversy about that, of course, but as long as they can find people willing to pay, they charge. So with this kind of work, it would be, you know, the physician would get much more data and the principal investigator would find out so much more about the actual patients who are undergoing the clinical trial. Then they would provide that to the doctors, researchers, insurance companies, et cetera, who decide on a yearly basis what is, what the standard of care is going to be and they would have more data to work with. They would be able to say, sure, okay, because this works with all of the patients, even the smokers, we're going to call it standard of care. So suddenly all of these experimental procedures would become standard of care and patients would have more choice of what's covered by insurance. Doctors would have more choice of what to prescribe to their patients, knowing that it was covered by insurance. That's what you're saying. Yeah, I suppose that some treatments are just so expensive that you know, researchers aren't able to, you know, find the resources to pay for conducting the trial. So if patients are willing to pay for it, you know, they'll make that happen. Interesting. Thanks for sharing it. The next... If you can pay for that clinical trial using your data, wouldn't that be wonderful? Right. I think that's like the Holy Grail really of what we're all talking about. If we can monetize, in aggregate, all the data that people generate in order to fund, in order to really, yeah, it'll fund the research that is happening. So the value of the aggregate data will hopefully supersede the cost to run these trials and then we're in business, right? Next here is an article just kind of featuring a new... This isn't really that recent, I guess, June of this year, but I thought it was new to me. Egg's Chain, which is a company that's trying to store records using blockchain, store the records of frozen eggs, embryos, and other specimens using blockchain. So I thought it was interesting. They're using NFTs and the founder, Wei Eskala, she's a, you know, she's a Web3 evangelist and they're based in Austin, I believe. So it looks like the company was actually launched in 2018 and they have a patent to track the chain of custody of biospecimens on the blockchain. You know, and it's not just for embryos and things like that. It's also for organs, tissues, blood, stem cells, DNA RNA and more. I think with the name, the implication is that they're starting off with the female reproductive science first. And yeah, it'll be interesting to see how this unfolds as well. I don't know if anyone has heard of this company. Worth checking out. So is this like the egg gets a name and an NFT and then somebody can buy it and use it later on for artificial insemination? I don't know if it'll be that someone else will be able to use it. So here it says once they launch the company, she led by example by having the retrieval of her eggs documented on the platform. So I think it's just to track your own eggs. In this case, her eggs are stored at the Yale School of Medicine. That's where they're physically stored, which along with Boston IVF fertility clinic, partners with egg chain and documenting biospecimens on the blockchain. So it's more about documenting your own. But here it says in March, egg chain held an online auction, allowing people to bid for the first publicly available spot for sperm storage on the blockchain. Interesting. So you can make a bid to have your sperm stored on the blockchain. The auction garnered 66 bids, which also included the rights to an exclusive piece of artwork and a discount for storing the sperm at a participating clinic. Anyone who stores their data about their specimen with egg chain has secure ownership of their information in their data wallet that is protected with a private key. And users can broadcast their data on the blockchain for visibility without exposing any personally identifiable information. So that part I find to be kind of, you know, I could challenge that potentially because if you're using a public blockchain, people could see what transactions you might be making. And if they know your identity, this might not be true. But other information such as the date of the egg retrieval, how many eggs have been stored, and whether any medical tests were administered could also be stored in the data record. Interesting model. So how do you keep track if you don't say put the egg into the box that's sealed that has an NFC in it so that it tracks if somebody, you know, an emotion detector? I mean, how do you make sure that nobody's stealing that egg? Isn't that what it's for to make sure nobody steals that egg? It's not clear to me. I don't think necessarily that it's use is to prevent someone from stealing the specimen, the biospecimen. I think it's more just to track the, you know, the digital information about the egg and where it's stored and things like that. But again, I'm sure this is, you know, that's a great question. Some information on the website about it. But yeah, I don't know. Maybe we'll have her on the, so here you can take a look and see that X chain learning series. There's a video on this. So this might have more information. And you can actually consult with them. It's 400 bucks or 45 minutes. So could be, you know, if anyone's interested, check that out. Could be interesting. Yeah, Elizabeth, I'm not really sure how to answer your question clearly. I see it's more like this is one of those in the future. We might find out how women can bear children after age 35 safely. So until that time, freeze your eggs because you may have a chance in the future to bear, you know, maybe laboratory right now, they have test tube babies in China. And maybe one day you'll be able to make your own test tube baby. You won't have to have a child while you're still a child. You can wait till you're old and wise and have a baby in a test tube and here save your eggs for that purpose. I can see a lot of use for that. Sure. Yeah. I know that market is also growing. So the number of women that want to wait until they're, you know, whatever personal choices that they make, they want to delay having a baby. And yeah, I'm going to move on to the next article here. This is published Coinbase and it kind of talks about the past, present and future of smart contract platforms. So I just thought this might be interesting for those folks who you know, want to get into more detail about what does a smart contract really mean and how it could evolve in the future as well. And really why they matter. So now they talk about the history of use cases. Interestingly, the term smart contract was coined in 1994, according to this article. And the theoretical use case was a smart lean protocol. So for repossessing leased vehicles from deadbeats. 18 years after Zabo's musings, Nick Zabo, Ethereum, the world's first smart contract platform was launched. So yeah, they talk about current use cases as well. Things like crypto kitties, DeFi platforms, NFTs. And, you know, as we know, in like the healthcare market, there's so many potential use cases for smart contracts. It's kind of like the core tool that can be used in blockchain to enable trustless transactions. And getting into some of the future use cases here. Let's see. Looking here, talking about banking. Yeah, check this out if you're interested in learning more about smart contracts. And if you take a look here, actually, the markets have been on the uptrend very recently in the last day or two. So smart contracts are getting a, I guess, are more trusted, are getting more validity, let's say. But you know, you really can't base it on the market prices. Just a thought there. Anyways, the last article here in these... There's a good use case for that though, is that this patient is going to provide all the data necessary for the doctor to see if the procedure worked. And as soon as that data shows up on blockchain, it triggers the smart contract and the patient, the provider is paid for the procedure because there's now evidence that it was successful. Absolutely. I think the insurance market, health insurance market too, can really benefit from smart contracts both on the insurance and a provider side as well as the consumers, individuals that are contracting with the insurance companies. We all have heard how it's sometimes really challenging to get reimbursed for the financial or for the healthcare services that you receive. Doctors also have to basically fight with some insurance companies to get paid. If there was a way to streamline that entire process through smart contracts. And I know it's easier said than done. But with some of the software tools that we have now, it is possible. No longer do we have to really fact some medical history to a provider or to an insurance company to prove that a specific service actually occurred. So it'll be interesting to see that plays out. I think there's going to be for a long period of time the ability or capability to retract some transactions somehow because inevitably you're going to have some either human error mistakes that are put into the blockchain that need to be reversed or something. So thinking about those use cases or extreme cases I guess you can say is going to be important. Otherwise you're going to have a lot of angry people. So but the power to make things more streamlined is really there. So we'll see how that goes. This article here, the critical link between healthcare, cybersecurity and health disinformation. This is a well-brained article I thought worth sharing and it just discusses in more detail about really the state of cybersecurity and healthcare and how sometimes the data that's out there just cannot be trusted and it's really a dangerous situation for health systems providers across the country and really across the world too. So here, although medical misinformation has long existed, the rise of Frank medical disinformation was accelerated during the COVID-19 pandemic. Despite early warnings about disinformation, misinformation early in COVID-19 in the pandemic, the quick spread of vaccine disinformation has prevented uptake of COVID-19 vaccines. So misinformation has a direct link potentially to poor health decisions made by individuals. So being able to prevent that from happening is going to be an important thing in our future. I think this part here is really interesting. Disinformation as a service. So one of the greatest shifts in information technology over the past decade has been the emergence of as a service models. So infrastructure as a service, etc. But what's interesting here is what they're saying is disinformation as a service can operate in a similar way. So bad actors no longer have to design a disinformation campaign, develop an access strategy for intended target populations and build the technological capabilities for a simultaneous launch and do all the monitoring and response activities. So that's a lot of work for these bad actors to do, right? What they can do instead is literally just hire people from either the dark web or other sources and have these services run their disinformation campaigns for them. This also shields the bad actors from being pinpointed as the bad actors. So it just happens on the internet somehow and then people believe it for some reason. So it's quite effective. I think do this as we've seen with COVID-19. And I think it's not just a health care issue. We're seeing this in the political landscape as well, you know, through election misinformation, etc. So what are we going to do about it, right? This article kind of presents potential strategies to mitigate these risks. Any thoughts on this? I know this is a big issue for many people. This is Wendy. I thought I would share that my son is actually studying this very question for his dissertation. And he just proposed his dissertation on Monday and it got approved by his committee. And he is studying the effect of Twitter, of tweets, and he uses computer science scraping tools to scrape the tweets, natural language processing for analyzing the content. And he is comparing the effect of the nature of tweets in two states, Tennessee and South Carolina, as to the overall COVID vaccination rates and hospitalization rates for alternative treatments that were not effective, such as use of, I can't remember, different aspects. Oh, one is ivermectin prescriptions. So anyway, he's actually studying this empirically. And I am eager to find out exactly what he is able to see for this. That is awesome. Yeah, I'm also very interested. So once that comes out, I'd love to read it as well. We've heard anywhere from like 50% to 85% of accounts on Twitter could be just bots like fake accounts. So being able to empirically say what the real number is or just understanding how that could impact society is going to be really, really important. So absolutely, you know, so much of it has been anecdotal evidence. And so now he's studying it empirically. Awesome. That's really cool. And the cause mob mentality. Well, I've been working on an app for decades trying to figure out how do you, how does artificial intelligence detect mob mentality? So, you know, artificial intelligence could, for example, detect that what's it called the telephone game, you say one thing to one person, it just changed slightly the next person to say artificial intelligence could scrape the web and find that kind of a chain of deceit or misinformation and trace it back to where it started with all these tweets find out where it started. So that's just one way. But until children grow out of being susceptible to mob mentality, I'm afraid it's or or here's what the Green Party says everyone should get free education in the medical field so that everyone already knows enough to be able to spot, perceive, you know, intellectually knows what's true and where to find correct information. You know, so I guess education could be one solution. This is Elizabeth over screen. Thanks, Elizabeth. Now, I mean, education always a good idea, I think. And the thing is like some people, some communities may not really be interested in getting involved with learning about that. So there's gotta be like clever ways to incentivize people that might not normally want to engage with health education and motivate them to at least appreciate the data, the information that's out there and be more skeptical skeptical of some of the misinformation that they could be seeing on, you know, on Twitter, TikTok, Instagram, etc. So this this problem is going to be with us for a while. I think I just to kind of illustrate a little bit what this article is trying to portray. Here's an exhibit aligned and combined tactics to combat disinformation and cybersecurity threats. So I think this is really nice for really anyone who's trying to communicate what's happening at different levels of an organization and at different like you know, perspectives as well. So the C-suite engagement, what they what they can do, how to gamify education. So, you know, Elizabeth, you mentioned education. This is an example of what they could be doing, why it's separate from compliance, the evolution of the workforce and you know, what can be done about what strategies can be employed for them and go on the offensive. So proportional investment, offensive cyber security. So yeah, really good idea. So yeah, hopefully, I think everyone on this call believes that blockchain, DLT will have a role to play in helping to prevent misinformation and disinformation online, how that's going to play out. It's a little kind of an unknown, but we got to have these conversations now to find out the right solutions. Okay, so I have a few educational nuggets, but I just want to point out that there were some messages on the Zoom here. So I just want to open these articles up just to just hurt anyone listening in who might be curious. So the OR ring, Elizabeth, you mentioned this before when talking about you know, monetizing data and collecting data as well as Erica, you shared Shiro Health, which is a company that's also kind of paying people to do their daily activities. It's open public beta. So check that out if you're interested. And then Doug, you shared this article about how the environmental and acute margin pressure on the industry level for what's happening to hospitals really. So inflation becoming a much bigger deal for hospitals. And we're seeing a lot of pain. And you know, hospitals are struggling to keep their financials going and even like paying some of their employees, etc. So especially in underserved communities. So that's the major issue here, I think. So yeah, any thoughts on those or anything else you wanted to share on those links? Okay. On the last point, I guess it's just a simple one, really. Based on what we are, who we are, what our jobs are, we tend to get fascinated with some of the more frontier esoteric issues now and then. And we lose sight of the forest for the trees. But in reality, the crushing force here is economic. It's not really just hospitals, but it's kind of rose to my attention, my sister is a nurse, and she's telling me that the hospital she works with, having the nursing staff now is to meet their shortfalls or having to pay as much as $150 an hour. And she uses that just as an example for other things. So in Atlanta, one of the major hospitals just shut down completely, leaving a big gap in supply on the supply side of healthcare. There's almost a kind of tectonic force that is going to drive different approaches, I suppose. By the way, saying that, the conventional care models are breaking down. And it just seemed to me that's worth reflecting on. Just some kind of pedestrian level applications like using, it was alluded to a little earlier, using verified credentials and digital identities to identify and augment customer acquisition costs that if physicians or hospitals even can use the web to basically solicit people to volunteer their information so that it can cherry pick them, if you will, for trials or for more profitable procedures. Stuff like that, somebody's going to make a killing if they figure out how to address simple use cases of that sort. Totally. Yeah, no, thanks for bringing that up. I think you're absolutely right. You know, us being this sort of futuristic pattern of thinking about the future and how new technology is going to improve everything, we really need to also reflect on, like you said, reflect on some of the basic economic issues that these companies or these hospitals are facing. I hopefully will be able to find solutions for them that are both related to tokenomics somehow. But again, a lot to be considered there. Now, there's one more megatrend. I don't have a link here for it, but a totally different topic perhaps, but perhaps we could focus on some future call or near term call. But this whole Q and Tefka thing is the hot mess. And I think that it deserves more attention than it's getting relative to the case in point example is that it's the new Tefka rules are extraordinarily regressive as they relate to decentralized approaches. That it's really trying to lock in 20th century hierarchical, federated and centralized methods to the exclusion of even fire for Christ's sake. It doesn't even really allow currently network exchange using fire protocols, which is kind of fighting with itself. The 21st Century Cures Act specified by our APIs as a requirement, yet the Q and Tefka regime that's coming in right behind it doesn't have a decent way to support that. So it's a huge mess that if to the extent that we thought public policy along the Cures Act was going to help us drive innovation, the Sequoia RCE Tefka rules are driving us in the wrong direction. I probably shouldn't say all that given this is a recorded call, but I think it's true. Fair enough. I am sharing the Tefka site as well for anyone interested. Very important stuff. And yeah, I think it would be valuable to talk about this in more detail in a future meeting too. So we could discuss that potentially how we'd want to go about doing that. If anyone has any ideas or specific strategies to tackle this topic as it is pretty complex or open to suggestions. Yeah, unfortunately, it's mind numbingly complex. It's hard to get your head around it. It's such a pervasive change. It could just Peter out completely given that it's ostensibly a voluntary program, but Health and Human Services and CMS have a way of pressing their, you know, their voluntary requirements through Medicare Medicaid such that it becomes a de facto standard to the extent again that it's it's somewhat regressive in its current manifestation. I think it's worth more attention. Thanks, Doug. Appreciate that. I'm going to jump into some of the educational nuggets and these are three quite long time consuming pieces of content, but I think are very valuable in learning more about the topic. So the first one is an article written about decentralized science, more or less. And here is Gassing the Miracle Machine by Elliot Hirschberg and Jocelyn Pearl. And Jocelyn Pearl is very active in the decentralized science communication space. And it really just goes into the details of the history of what science sort of is, how funding and science has traditionally worked and what the future of science funding and research can look like using Web 3. So I'm not going to get into the details, but one thing I just wanted to highlight is there is a really cool landscape of all, well, of the majority of decentralized science companies categorized by DAOs, open science, ecosystems, biotech and tech bio, arts and NFTs, publishing, data storage, protocols, foundations and institutes, financing, communities and chat. So I know this list is growing every day, really. And I just wanted to make the group here aware of this article. Really, really well written. The next thing I wanted to bring to your attention is an eight hour podcast that Lex Friedman, who's excellent at podcasting as a researcher at MIT and does a lot of other cool stuff with robotics. I talked eight hours with Bellagie, Srinivasan, and they talk about government, social media science, FDA, blockchain, Web 3, et cetera. So if you have a full day's worth of free time and you want to check that out, I think on YouTube they also split it up. So I just wanted to bring that to your attention. Really interesting thoughts there. And then last but certainly not least is this Bloomberg article, which is 40,000 words long about the crypto industry and crypto stories. So for anyone who might not know anything about blockchain or crypto, who's just trying to start learning about it for the first time and they like reading, this might be a great way to get started. It's very easy to read, I think, and kind of goes over the whole history and what the future could mean. So it really does a great job kind of taking in everything that's happened in the last many, I guess, last decade since, I guess, Bitcoin even before that. And yeah, I just wanted to highlight that for everyone's attention. So yeah, any thoughts or has anyone, anything else they want to share? We have about five minutes left for any discussion. Excellent. So just as a reminder, if anyone's listening on YouTube, please subscribe to the Hyperledger channel if you find this conversation interesting and let us know what you think of the comments as well. Like it if you think it was worthwhile. And I want to thank everyone on the call today as well. Your input is extremely valuable. And I love talking to you guys and I think it's really important to keep these conversations going and the community will hopefully benefit from it as well. So thank you all again and just nothing else. I hope you have a great rest of your week. Hang with it, Ray. We need to keep this going. Definitely. Yeah. And if there's any ideas or specific topics, we discussed a few today that we want to go into more detail about. I'm happy to organize an agenda in that way as well. Thank you. Thank you all. Bye. Thanks, Ray.