 So I am thrilled to introduce my colleague who in turn will introduce our panel of Vanguard experts. Susan Jubinsky is here from Morningstar. Like Jeff, she's a Morningstar veteran. She is even longer tenure than me at Morningstar, which is really saying something. She's been at Morningstar for 30 years. She has had many, many different roles, managed a big team of people at various points in time, raised her triplets, who just started college this year. And, well, it's a big, big deal. But I sometimes call Susan Morningstar a secret weapon. But the good news is she's not really a secret weapon anymore. I think many of you know her in her role as director of content. She is all over Morningstar.com. She is writing really helpful articles, interviewing people. She is just a tremendous resource for me. And I know for all of you who use Morningstar.com and are looking for good investment information, Susan is a go-to person. So I'm so happy that she agreed to be here, to be one of our moderators. She's one of the best moderators we have. And she is going to introduce our Vanguard panel. Thank you, Susan. Well, thanks. Thank you, Christine. One of my favorite things I do in my job is interviewing Christine. So it's great to be here. And it's so wonderful to meet so many of you. As Christine mentions, I've been around a little while. And I wasn't Morningstar when the Bogleheads board started on what I believe might have still been Morningstar.net. I'm not sure if we were .com even yet. So it's great to meet all of you. I'm very happy to be here. And especially this year, we're having quite a year, aren't we? That's 60-40 portfolios, really working out for everybody this year. And I think it's at times like this, even though we're all long-term investors, you start to wonder, hmm, how am I defining investment success in a market like this? And how am I really doing? And how should I be thinking about my financial situation when we're entering a period of rising interest rates, which we haven't seen in a while? We're dealing with some pretty hot inflation, which we also haven't seen for a while. And boy, those interest rates in bond market. So I think it's a very interesting time, even for long-term investors. So it's great to have Vanguard in the house to talk with us a little bit about how their sort of thinking about is an organization investment success, and maybe what we can sort of learn from that and take away from that, not just in a market like this, but when things just get so much better in the market, we hope soon. So they're here with us today to share some research that they've been doing on personalization and advice and how to be thinking about financial advice. And then they're going to do a presentation. And then we're going to pivot over into the Q&A session for about 20 minutes. I have a couple of questions related to the market that I want to sort of ask. But then we're going to turn things over to you to ask your questions about the market, their research, Vanguard. After all, we have Vanguard in the house. So let's take advantage. So let me introduce, of course, Joel Dixon, who is currently Vanguard's Global Head of Advice Methodology, and Paul Acosta, who is a behavioral economist at Vanguard. And they're both coming to us from Vanguard's Texas office. Who would have thought it, Texas Vanguard? Anyway, thank you both for being here. It's great to see you, Ann. Well, thank you. Check us out. Great being here. Quickly, how many of you first-time Boglehead Conference? Whoa. Uh-oh. Haven't seen my shtick. Okay. No, that's great. I'm glad you're here. This is actually also Paulo's first Boglehead's Conference. Please be nice to him. You can take other things out on me, but please be nice to Paulo. What we did wanna do today is just give a little bit of what's happening behind the scenes from an investment standpoint and how we think about, when we talk about Vanguard's core purpose, taking a stand for all investors, treating them fairly, giving the best chance for investment success, what does that mean? How is that evolving? What are we thinking about in the, whether it's the current environment, whether it is just the situation of what it means to have investment success? And a lot of things, you folks do it really well with helping each other out on the boards or the discussion that Nick just had on a number of different topics and so forth about what really matters is what matters to you. And yet the investment industry, when we talk about advice, when we talk about value from certain things, it ends up being these rules of thumb, these generic descriptions, how to save 12 to 15% a year, 4% withdrawal rule in retirement. You're gonna live for 30 years in retirement. All of these things actually lead to recommendations that are at best on average, if this will happen, and actually at worst may not actually figure out the sort of trade-offs that actually exist in a full kind of thinking about a plan. And so one of the things that we've been doing a lot of lately is how do we talk about and think about personalization? That's why this hopefully catchy title about putting the you in value because what matters in what's valuable is dependent on everyone's individual assumptions situation, perspective, goals, and so forth. And then related to that is how it all integrates together. And so that's what we were gonna talk about. And I kind of just wanted to quickly talk about when the kind of high level principles of success that we often talk about, goals, balance, cost, discipline. Okay, all motherhood, apple pie type stuff. But I think what's important to recognize here is really only one of these four categories, the balance one, specifically talks about asset allocation. You know that the other things that are so important are things like what are your goals? How are they different? How do they evolve over time? How much are you spending or saving? And is that consistent with what you want for your lifestyle and approach? Cost, well, not just investment costs, but taxes and so forth. I mean, other than, say, the Boglehead group, not often talked about enough, you know, Eric Balchunas last night did a great job in sort of saying, hey, look, here's the power of the structure, the mutual ownership structure and the cost piece of it. I would just add the other power is the alignment with the end investors about the focus being there without the same conflicts of interest that often exist. And then discipline is just sticking to that plan. Well, how do you value all these things? A lot of what we talk about in providing value or security or so forth tends to be related to investment balances. Well, if you do this today, you will have $100,000 25 years from now. You know, your asset allocation or maybe even your saving rate, but it doesn't integrate it all together and think about the trade-offs and then your personal situation and what kind of recommendations would be right for you. So there are a couple of, there are two different sort of things that we just wanna talk about before we get to the Q&A and you're gonna be seeing a lot more of this from Vanguard in terms of the future and discussions of what does it mean to be successful and so forth. One is focused a lot more on the accumulator area, but this whole concept of financial wellness, which is a big issue for especially younger investors but not exclusively younger investors, but now thinking about like the total balance sheet considerations of clients, debt versus assets versus how do you save? How do you create the ability to save longer-term? And then the second we'll talk about is a little bit of integration in a quantitative way actually of financial planning concepts and investment concepts to put them on the same playing field and then we'll do that with a case today. And I just wanna let you know, I'm gonna be asking for your participation in this. I'm gonna want you to be bogal heads, helping out somebody that might be posting and so we'll see on that and then talk about what kind of the trade-offs there that might be there. And this concept of personalization and integration is what you're gonna see more and more of from Vanguard going forward. I will say there are two kind of research papers behind these two topics. I am a co-author on none of them, so I am the stuffed suit. Paulo is a co-author on both of them. So, but I just wanted to sort of set that up and he'll talk about financial wellness. I'll come back and talk a little bit more about the value in personalization. All right. Thank you, Joel. So this is a preview of our new paper, The Vanguard's Guide to Financial Wellness. It's not out yet. So this is a preview for a special audience. But the idea of this paper is given your personal situation, what are the next best actions that you should take to achieve your financial goals? So the idea here, yesterday during dinner, Eric Paltunas showed that graph that the bottom 50% on wealth of the population only have 1% of stock market wealth and that's a pretty striking number. So let's look at the financial health of the American household. So first of all, 40% of families do not save money. That's a pretty sobering number. 36% of households cannot cover an emergency of $400. And 45% of these families carry credit card debt and the average credit card debt is actually over $6,000. And this is the debt that is over in terms of interest 20% a year. So you put all these facts together. Like in our mission, we want to give investors the best chance for investment success. How can one have the best chance for investment success with this? So how can we help them? So that's the genesis of this paper is to try to give everyone the best chance for investment success. So just financial wellness, a topic that people talk a lot about. I just wanna be precise in the way that we define it. So here we say, is the objective financial situation of a person or a household? Is the ability to meet current and near term financial obligation and be on track to meet future goals? And we divided in three steps. And the idea here is step one is take control of your finances. We hear people saying a lot, money controls me. And how do we fight that back? So the first idea was, how do you take control back from your finances? So, and then the second one, once you have that saddle, how do you prepare for emergencies? And later on, when you have that saddle, making progress towards your goals. So take control of your finances. And I'm gonna start with a very controversial topic. Create a budget that works for you. Some people love budgeting and some people hate budgeting. And the point here is actually, I think that most people actually hate tracking their expenses, because that can get pretty boring pretty quickly. But the actually in the paper, we create two like a short questionnaire, like two questions, just for people to find out what's the budgeting style they prefer best. But the idea here basically, if you know how much money is coming in and where your money is going, that's just a really simple powerful step. And here, just be mindful, this steps are not in order. Any step, any positive step that you take, will contribute to your financial goals. The second one is pay at least a minimum on all your debt. And the reason is basically, you don't want to go into default, because that's gonna take a hit in your credit score. Your debt will become more expensive. And in the future, you may not even be able to access that. So make sure you pay all of that. So make a maximize employer match. So the idea there is, I just found this a statistic that for me was surprising, 31% of people that have access to a 401K with a match actually do not contribute up to the match. And that's tens of billions of dollars that are left on the table every year. So that's something very straightforward that can improve chances of investment success. And then I will be remiss if I didn't say pay down high interest debt. And the point here, one thing that I had forgotten having lived in Massachusetts for a long time, when we moved down to Texas, what we saw is the payday loan shops everywhere. And those shops, on a good day, you come out with a loan of an annualized rate of 300%, on a bad day, 1,000%. So it's just absolutely absurd. It's really expensive. And also credit card debt that doesn't have such a high interest rate, but compared to payday loans, we're still between 15% and 20%, but sometimes even higher depending on your situation, your credit score. So this is what we call taking control of your finances. So this lays the groundwork. But then once you start to accumulate assets now, we think of preparing for the unexpected. And then obviously we're talking about emergency savings. And at Vanguard, we actually think of our emergency savings in two steps. So first, set up emergency savings for an expected expenses. So we're talking about those, you get a flat tire or your heat stop working. So we're talking about those expenses that you should keep around $2,000 or half of your monthly expense. Usually in a checking on a high youth savings account, then building up a reserve of three to six months and that in a potential job loss. And the idea there is that because job loss is something that doesn't happen as frequently, you can keep that in an accessible investment account. For example, you can put that in a taxable brokerage account. You can even put that some of that in a Roth IRA because their contributions can be withdrawn tax free. So I still remember not very long ago when I first had my emergency savings all filled up. And I remember just looking at that amount on my screen and then being stressful because of financial things but just looking at that number and just staring at it. The amount of peace of mind that that brought to me. And it's just, I think one thing in personal finance that we don't talk as much about and it's extremely important is, how powerful cash can be. We talk about asset allocation. We talk about stocks and bonds. But cash also brings a lot of peace of mind to folks. And we shouldn't forget about that for the everyday investor that's extremely important. And then evaluating insurance needs and here obviously health insurance. But for younger folks, disability insurance because a lot of your capital is actually in your human capital is in the salary that you're gonna earn for the rest of your life. So that shouldn't be forgotten. And then get your legal documents in order to ensure that your wishes are realized. Here we are talking about wills. We are talking about power of attorney. So there's a conversation that are really tough to have but it's best to have them while you're here. Imagine how tough it could be for your loved ones if you're not here to have those conversations. And also guardianships for people who have kids and pets. So those are things that they may not necessarily have a dollar sign next to it but they extremely important as well. And then once you have prepared for the unexpected, now making progress towards goals. So now the bread and butter increase savings and make the most of your tax advantage accounts. So in step one, you already maximize your employer match. Now retirement, if you have access to a Roth IRA, contribute to a Roth IRA. We saw last time, Nick doesn't like when you maximize your 401K. But if you want to maximize your 401K, you're fine. You can do it. So if you wanna use your HSAs for retirement savings, the triple tax advantage can go a long way. Obviously HSAs for health, five training nine for education. And then you get to flex with taxable accounts. And I think that that was Nick's point. Taxable accounts, taxable brokerage accounts, they give you the flexibility. If you wanna say for a house, if you wanna say for vacation, if you wanna do early retirement, not that I'm talking about thinking about early retirement, Joe. I'm thinking about miles. But then also this is a time to consider paying down low interest debt. For example, if you were one of the lucky ones that got a mortgage under 4%, they used to be something realistic 12 months ago, but not anymore. Car loans, student loans. And also one of my favorite parts of this paper is set a strategy for your charitable giving. I think there is much good to doing this world. And if we have an opportunity to do it, why not? And then the benefits of all of this. Obviously, we talked about, we talk a lot about dollar signs, but here the statistic shock me. 65% of Americans say money is a significant source of stress. And if you look at folks under age of 40, that number is way up 80%, say economy is taking 88%. So people are extremely stressed about money. So where can financial wellness help here and alleviate some of these issues? So a lot of research showing that it alleviates mental health concerns. It improves sleep, relationships at home. I mean, how many marriages and because of financial concerns, self-esteem, productivity, attendance at work. So these are things that we talk so much about finance and we're in such a, in that way, a privileged situation in which we have friends and colleagues that know so much about this, but that a lot of people out there who don't have this source of knowledge and information and willingness to help each other. So you start seeing this more and more from Vanguard. For example, this is a new tab in our 401K page. If you've seen the middle, welcome back, Paulo. This may or may not be a screenshot of my own 401K page, but we will see more and more of this. It's already live and it's based on the findings of the paper. But just guidance, financial wellness may not be enough for some people and that's where advice can come in. So I'll hand it back to Joe to talk about the value of personalized advice. Thanks, Paulo. I actually just wanted to kind of build on a couple of things there. When we talk about the benefits of investing or the case of financial wellness, what do you think defines success? Be just interested in some thoughts. What is success? I'm sorry? Having enough? Okay. Being happy. And that's where I wanna go. The emotional piece, the outcomes of peace of mind or happy or feeling secure or so forth. And the messages that we've had and I would even say Vanguard over the years, hey, save for the long term, save for retirement, save for retirement, save for retirement. Yeah, absolutely. I'm doing that as a 25 year old, 30, 35 year old. But it also doesn't resonate if they're worried about, shoot, I've got this credit card debt that is just sitting on top of me that's not allowing me to do anything. I have different goals and different sort of emotional reactions with money over the course of my lifetime. And that's why thinking of a more holistic total view is coming at us. So this part that we're gonna talk about is how do you think about putting all of this together and kind of making trade-offs and taking an integrated personalized look? And by the way, this could be called the value of personalized advice, which it is in the white paper that we just released on this within the last month or so. But it could also be just called the value of personalized recommendations. It's not advice per se, but about how do we surface for each individual situation the best options that can generate success and therefore hopefully a peace of mind or more confidence in the approach. So let me talk a little bit about that, which is when we think about personalization, it's elements that go beyond investment performance. So much of what we talk about is investment performance. And I'll be a little bit provocative. I'm sure get to this in the Q&A. You know what? It is really, really fun to talk about investment things. What's the market gonna do? Should I be in the three fund portfolio, the permanent portfolio, market cap portfolio? Those are a lot of fun discussions. At the end of the day, if you don't have how much is being saved or what your kind of standard of living expectation might be or so forth, honestly all of those things are kind of just at the margin. They don't really matter that much. Yeah, you can be successful with a three fund portfolio. You can be successful with a market cap portfolio and so forth. But a lot of these things that we end up talking about that are much harder to quantify can make as much or more of a difference in terms of outcomes and success. So integrating those kinds of concepts of financial planning, whether it be saving strategies, drawdowns, approaches, tax pieces into that. But at your situation and for your perspective and then looking at the forward and going back to Vanguard's principles for investment success, I can summarize that in one phrase, which is you're gonna increase your success by first controlling what is under your control and managing those things that aren't under your control. So what's under your control? Your savings, your spending, you know your tax situation, you know your risks, you know your goals. What's not under your control, even though CNBC would like you to think it is, what's the market gonna be doing? I would extend that to how long's your planning horizon? We make these assumptions, this was something I said with Christine on the long view a couple of years back. And I said, and actually Nick mentioned it a little bit earlier about over accumulation. You know, that's a result of the assumptions that people often make about how you define success in retirement, which is most people, most assumptions about retirement sufficiency, assume you retire at 65 and you live with certainty to age 95. So success is defined based on an absolute certainty that you are gonna live to age 95. You may, you probably will not. And now all of a sudden you think, okay, now what does success mean in that standpoint? So that's kind of the things taking the uncertainty of longevity into the consideration when developing recommendations into the situation. So one of the things that we did with this is we have actually created a new call it a model, but it basically quantifies all these things and tries to integrate them. It's called the Vanguard Financial Advice Model, which is really about four components. It's a very detailed cash flow simulation after tax. We basically coded the US tax code and then running cash flow simulations over expected life. With the uncertainty of we have no idea what the market is gonna do and so which tests a whole bunch of different scenarios. With the uncertainty of life expectancy, you may die at 40, you'll probably live to be 85 or older. You may live to be 105, which actually creates a different type of risk from all of those models where it assumes you live to 95. And then preferences. And this is about focusing on the entire range of outcomes and mitigating those things that could be bad outcomes. Cause let's face it, not meeting your hopes or your goals or your expectations from a spending standpoint is a lot worse than exceeding those in terms of how you feel, right? Cause you had more than enough in that latter case, you have not enough in the previous case, not enough is a heck of a lot worse than having more than enough. And so how do you account for that? And this is this whole preference thing. For those that are more in the economic statistical standpoint, we can actually calibrate financial planning, things like savings and spending right alongside of investment returns by doing it in this way through things we call like a utility function and modeling of all that that puts them on the same playing field. So that's what we're doing here. This is where I need your help. I want you to meet Pete and Kim. Pete is 59 years old, Kim is 64 years old. They have about, if you do the math, I won't do the math on your own. They have about $1.2 million in assets. They are currently spending $80,000 a year. Pete has $110,000 annual salary. He would like to retire next year, early retirement, join his wife. Yeah, they have other things they want to do besides working. And you can see their current allocation in terms of an asset allocation, 60% stocks, all US stocks, 25% bond, 15% cash. They have some social security coming at some point in the future. But my question to you is if you see this sort of profile, what would be the, and I'll just do one quick math for you. They're spending as a percent of their overall wealth is 6.7%, okay? So what's the, what's the advice? Yes, Rick? She will get social security when, well, that's a question is how you're choosing social security. She has not yet, that would be one of the integrated recommendations of, that comes out of this. But let's just say, because what Pete wants to do, Pete's 59 and he wants to retire next year. Christine is sitting here going, there is no way, right? How many of you agree with that? No way. Keep working, somebody's, yeah, keep working. Is that what it is? Keep working. The current, sorry, the current annual benefit is that social security that Kim has that she has not claimed yet. No, he cannot claim social security at 60, not saying that he is going to. Because she has not claimed either as of right now. There is no social security currently being claimed and therefore an income. Kim could certainly claim social security if she wanted to, but she has not. All right, here's the deal. Let me put it, let me put it in this terms instead. If Pete retires next year, they're gonna need to withdraw $80,000 from their investment portfolio to meet their spending. Okay, with that, die soon, there's another strategy. All right, the point, absolutely. You know, we basically are doing things that are, you know, we're like, hey look, you can't do this. You need to eat your vegetables and work longer or, you know, think about this differently. Maybe even go back to work or part-time job or whatever it might be, but that's not their goals. Can we meet their goals? And are there things that we can do to say, hey look, we may surface some trade-offs for you, but are there some different things that we can do to meet your goal, Pete's goal of wanting to retire next year? So, with that as a little bit of, yeah. Mm, yeah, it might, might have, what's that? If only they had somebody giving them advice, right? Exactly, or surfacing recommendations for what they could do. So, this is not meant to be a sales pitch for advice, but about thinking about this in a more holistic perspective of what the trade-offs are around both spending, savings, and so forth. So, let me just show you what this looks like in their current strategy because any value is not just relative to the current situation that they have, but what, you know, their current characteristics, but about what their current investment strategy is too. Too often we do value calculations as if, well, if you do this, if you do asset location, you can get 50 basis points. Well, not if you're currently doing asset location, not if you're currently, you know, equally weighted in your asset allocation across your accounts, you're not gonna get 50 basis points. So, how do you think about this relative to the current strategy that they are coming to you with? And what this shows is on the left-hand side, the likelihood of them being able to spend 80,000 a year, which is what they currently say, basically there's a 20% chance that each year on a real inflation-adjusted basis, they'd be able to spend $80,000 a year if Pete retires next year. And so pretty much anything to the left reflects risk, you know, of shortfall relative to their goal. The right-hand side, it says likelihood of final benefit, final bequest amount, you know, how much is left when they die, but think of this as actually financial flexibility in retirement. Things that are closer to zero, there's not a lot there if something happens, okay? And the reason that they get lucky maybe in certain instances at the far end of the tail is because they died early, because this, or they had really, really outstanding returns in some of the return scenario, right? This is what you get with longevity standpoint. Yeah, there's a chance they'll be okay, but pretty much they're not gonna be able to spend what they want and they're gonna have no flexibility in their financial situation retirement. So with that, let me just sort of, I'm gonna actually skip over that real quick. This is with recommendations in thinking about it from an integrated standpoint. Now that 20% chance of having that lifestyle, if you will, is defined by the amount of spending, we would say, hey, you know, you could actually have a bit of a more of a 70% chance of having this lifestyle by cutting your spending by a bit. And also with different approaches, this will shave or switch your distribution to the right on expected amount at the time that you die. Now, how did we get there? And again, this is where, this will be different for every different client, for every different approach and so forth. So I'm gonna focus on, for a moment, on the right-hand side. The right-hand side is in kind of investment return space. So based on what you're doing today, if you look at the far right-hand side, in this particular situation, we've calculated 218 basis points, you would have to do with your investments, 218 basis points, 2.18% per year, every year, better on your investment returns to get the same outcome as if you were to follow or these suggested recommendations for your portfolio. And those recommendations being defer social security, fix cash-drag and home bias in your portfolio, reduce annual spending, and use tax-smart investing. So there's a whole bunch of things that kind of work together. All right, so here's the question. I can predict where Rick is gonna go with these questions. Is this one-time advice or is this, you know, I'm going. Could you do this as one-time advice? Absolutely, absolutely. Will you, I should say, outside of this room, will you actually do it as one-time advice? Right, and that's the thing of, to be able to realize that there has to be that discipline part of sticking to the long-term investment success principle and you actually have to execute on that to capture that value. And so two things here I just wanted to highlight. And again, I knew Rick would be in the audience, so I do want to say, you're accounting for the extra fees or savings in fees. You cannot look at value without sort of saying, hey, there's a difference in fees. In this case, it was a positive 20 basis point difference in fees because they were coming from some high cost mutual funds. These are actually some case studies we've actually taken from some real type situations. But then there's also the importance of interaction effects and I can't emphasize this enough. This is where we do all of these recommendations one-off. We talk about asset location. Then we talk about tax loss harvesting. Then we talk about international investing and we do all of the analysis one at a time and then we say, well, in aggregate, it kind of adds up. Sometimes it doesn't add up. Take the case of asset location. We can debate what Nick said about asset location later. That's not germane for the point. Asset location and rebalancing. If you asset locate the sort of conventional wisdom way, stocks in the taxable account, bonds in the tax advantaged account and you were rebalancing but stocks tend to go up over time more so than bonds, you're going to be realizing capital gains, all else equal in the taxable account. So the sum of, if you say, hell, we're rebalancing adds 20 basis points and asset location adds 30 basis points. Therefore, you get about 50 basis points. Now, because you might get 10. Yeah, asset location will add some value but it's also not that full value because once you account for the extra tax of the rebalancing in the taxable account, it's not as strong. On the other hand, something like tax loss harvesting and asset location can actually build on each other because now if you have more of the volatile asset in the taxable account where if there is value in tax loss harvesting for you, you can actually now do more tax loss harvesting and again, if you can realize that value, it can actually be even higher than the sum of the two. So that's what this interaction or multi-strategy effects tries to capture is this integrated approach to doing it. So I'm going to leave it there. We're already kind of running a little short on time. I want to make sure we get to some Q and A but what are the key takeaways here? This is all meant to try to get to having Vanguard help clients make high value life decisions. What is your goal and your expectation? Pete wanted to retire at 59. It's really easy to say keep working longer but that's not his goal. That's not what's going to get him peace of mind. Are there things that we can do to think about that problem maybe a little bit differently? Secondly, investment performance is definitely important. Don't get me wrong, I would never say otherwise but financial planning elements and a total plan can provide even better investor outcomes and often can make a bigger difference in kind of the return space or so forth than investment performance itself. And then third is this all depends on the situation that you're in. That previous example with Pete and Kim, there was no value. Matter of fact, there was negative value for Roth conversion proposals or strategies. So somebody might go out and say, oh, well you want to Roth convert because you've diversified your tax rate and you might help protect against RMDs once post 72 hitting you from a tax torpedo standpoint. Nope, in the situation that we were looking at negative value, bad recommendation. So it all depends on the situation that you're in and the current strategy that is being employed. With that Susan turn it over to you and thank you. And actually I'd like to turn it over to you. I have a list of questions but we have eight minutes left. So line them up. Come on up, ask your questions. If for some reason you don't have any, I have plenty but I have a feeling you do have some questions so. Well this is just more of a comment. That was a very good presentation, thank you. But I've been thinking about the customer service problem at Vanguard. I think I have a solution. Either you give us a dedicated phone line for Bogleheads or when you speak to that nice voice recognition lady say I'm a Boglehead and it shoots your right off to someone. I would say though, we're not immune to seeing and hearing about the customer service issues. I would say the Bogleheads actually do have a very powerful voice. The website, the Bogleheads.org site is perused daily by senior Vanguard people. So trust me, we have heard everything about the app, about the customer service challenges and so forth. Now that said, I am more than happy. It kind of detracts from the investment piece message and that is a real problem and it is because if that is what detracts from the potential for achieving investment success, we've lost. And by we, I mean all of us because we're here to try to improve the investment success of the investors. That said, I know it can be an issue. It's a hot topic. I am happy to sort of stand out in there and the hallway afterwards. Come up, give me whatever feedback you'd like. I'll stay as long as you want and I will take it back. I personally cannot do a heck of a lot about it but if you do wanna be heard and so forth, I'm happy to do that and kind of organize it. I would ask for how you have experienced it yourself though because what's really important is are we seeing it in certain areas? Is it certain types of transactions and so forth? That could actually be actually really helpful from that standpoint. I don't have a customer service question. Vangar has always led the way in using economies of scale to reduce costs. As they push further into the personal advisory space, is there a likelihood that they'll be able to reduce the cost to the individual investor for that service? Right, so I'll go, yeah, you're gonna let me handle the strategy out here. Hey Vangar, make life better for me. He's the head of advice methodology. I'm a behavior economist, I think he's good. Thanks Paula. Paula's already on my list by the way because yeah, we were like in a team celebration thing for what was his birthday? And he goes, yeah, today I'm half old. And he was like, and I was like, wait, how old are you? And he said 31. I was like, well. I said half, half old, so. I have it on tape. Any case, the PAS, first of all, from an advice standpoint and lowering costs, I mean, there are already kind of multiple avenues at Vanguard, we have a personal advisory services, 30 basis points, plus the underlying fund fees, I should say that. There's 15 basis point net advisory fee with our digital advisor platform. But there's always kind of look reevaluation assessment of cost and service offerings at Vanguard. It happens all the time. What that might look like, I don't know, going forward per se, or in some ways, it's always a discussion. I would also say though, one of the things that we are doing a lot with, and we've talked about it a bit, is this concept of what we would call CX-Alpha or customer experience alpha. Not necessarily anything to do with advice, okay? But can we help investors, and again, this is for people largely outside of this room, but can we help people be better investors? Here's a really good example. Every year we see IRAs being funded. People get the message, oh, I should fund my IRA. They fund it, and then they leave it in cash, okay? If there was something along the journey of as they're investing, a nudge, a reminder, a client experience piece that could help them, not force them, but nudge them to invest, over time they are going to be better investors. And so there's a whole host of those types of things that we're looking at from an experience standpoint that may have nothing to do with advice, but can still help improve outcomes in material ways and in very low cost ways. This question is for Paolo. Oh, thank you. Given the inflationary environment that we are in, what is your insight on the 4% safe with our rule? Cause I know that you've been doing some research on that. Right. Thanks. Oh, you're welcome. So number one is, I understand the hesitation because of inflation, given that, especially for folks who are early in retirement, because the 4% rule actually adjusts your payments for inflation over time, but that's an adjustment pretty early on in retirement, and that's going to be baked in for all the rest of retirement. But the good thing about the 4% rule is that, I mean, I understand that we haven't seen inflation for a really long time. Having said that, the 4% rule was tested during the high inflation times of the 70s and the 80s, and it still had a high chance of success. So, so far, inflation has peaked over the past year, but it's starting to trend down a little bit. So hopefully we'll just be just a blip. Well, so far, the 4% rule is still is a good starting point for people in retirement. Oh, I'm the last one. I hope it's a good one. So, my, I'm really passionate about time in the market, and I got lucky when I was 22 to get good advice from coworkers to invest heavily. And I was wondering, what is Vanguard doing to try to get the younger people who are just starting their first job to invest because it's so critical, that's literally the most critical time that they get their money in the market. I just wanted to know if Vanguard has any outreach to like maybe high schools or colleges. So, not so much the outreach, the high school and colleges per se, but certainly the young investor in getting on the right path because habits that get put in place early tend to persist if we can do that. So, a couple of things, and one is, I'll turn it over to Paulo to do this, but this whole financial wellness piece is really aimed at doing that, because, and it's not just about investing, it's about that sort of total balance sheet because I mean, let's face it, paying off debt is saving. So, how do you get people into the position where they can save and invest to meet their long-term goals? I actually live this actually, well, I live this right now. My son just graduated college, 24 years old, just turned 24 years old. First job, thankfully, he asked me what I, he thought I should do, he should do. And he has a 401K plan at his employer that matches dollar for dollar up to 5%. And I was like, hey, look, do that, save money in a Roth IRA, which makes sense in his personal situation, and forget about everything else. Because you're on a good path there. It's a large percent of his annual income that he's saving from those two things. And I'm like, live your life, you know, be happy. You have the ability and you can have the peace of mind that, hey, the markets will go up, they'll go down. But if you're saving, in his case, it's between 17 and 20% with those two recommendations of his pre-tax income, if you include the employer match, you know what? For retirement, for 40 years from now, you're in good shape. We'll figure it out in a just as need to along the way. Yeah, so the two recommendations that Joel just mentioned, obviously getting the employer match, and I mentioned some, I mean, 31% of people are not even getting that. So starting with the match is extremely important. Then, you know, fund your Roth IRA. But to Joel's point, also, this recent generation coming out of college now is facing a very different circumstance. You know, student loans are a big thing for them. And you're with people with like six digits of that, you know, at 22 years old. And then there is a question of, you know, the trade-offs, do I pay down my debt or do I save for retirement? And that's why it's so important for us to put out the financial wellness guidance, you know, to talk about these trade-offs because, you know, we don't want, you know, we see this on the internet very often. Like, I wish I had done this 20 years ago. We want to prevent that. So, you know, getting there early and saying like the importance of savings, but also to Joel's point, you know, don't necessarily overdo it because, you know, you still have a life to live. And, you know, especially with these folks, they also have a lot of debt to pay. So we have to be mindful of the trade-offs. But just getting the match, getting the Roth IRA funded, that already goes a really long way. Thanks for the question. Thank you. I'd like to thank both of our speakers today. We'll be around for additional questions if you have them.