 Hello, I'm Drew Staney. This is my first FOSDEM. I've been watching videos for many years So this is my first time actually getting here. So I'm excited to be here Actually from Chicago, but I moved to Berlin this past year. So I'm in the area now I am part of the Beagle Board of Dark Foundation. We make small single board computers Most popularly known as the Beagle Bone Also part of the open source hardware association This is a group that we have an open source hardware certification program And I mentioned Berlin if you are in the area in a couple weeks We have the Berlin Embedded Linux meetup. So if you're around would love to have you stop by that And then on March 13th in New York City the open source hardware association We organize an annual conference called the open hardware summit So if you're able to this will be on March 13th in New York City And since I mentioned open source hardware just want to give a brief introduction of what that is So it's hardware whose design is made publicly available so that anyone can study modify distribute make and sell the hardware Help sell the design or hardware based on the design So for electronics, which is mostly what I do that'd be the schematic you'd be sharing these schematics the board layout In the editable source files, so if you're using a program like eCAD you would share your board file and your schematic file and then also the bill of materials and One of the best practices if you want to do this is to make sure that the bill of materials You have the components are available in small quantity So like with Beagle Bone, we make sure that all the components are available in quantity of one from distributors and the reason for I Also gave a talk at CCC recently that I go more into depth about like open source hardware Some the different licensing and also some of the different open source hardware boards that run Linux So if you're interested in that you can check out my 363 c-talk But going back to the open source hardware, why would you do this? I would say the main reason to do it is you want to enable other people to collaborate on your hardware project So by sharing your schematics and your board layouts and edible format You can get people to contribute back changes to your project and if you make the components available If you choose components that are available through distribution people can actually build your project so I'm very excited right now about risk 5 which is a open instruction set So what's an instruction set? So probably many of you have heard of x86 or arm These are instruction sets which is essentially the standard for what tasks a processor can do at a low level The instructions that the processor can execute Though with both x86 from Intel and AMD and the arm instruction sets. They're all proprietary So if we want to make like an open source chip, we need to have an open source instruction set So risk 5 I think it's about 10 years ago now They it was started by a group at Berkeley that was doing computer architecture research So risk 5 is a free and open instruction set. I believe it's licensed under a Creative Commons the standard is So anyone can take that instruction set and implement it There's a couple great talks if you want to get more in depth on risk 5 One is from David Patterson is one of the people that originally started risk back in the early 80s And then also Chris Asanovich who's the professor at Berkeley. It was leading the risk 5 team And he does this talk at Probably like every six months at these risk 5 conferences So it's always kind of changing because it's there's a lot of development going on So if you ever want to check out like deep dive into what the current state of affairs is with risk 5 is they do the state of the Union probably like every six months So one of the things about risk 5 was the idea was to make it a modular isa that you could Be extensible so to make it last for something that's going to be valid decade from now two decades from now They wanted it to be something where they're planning for the future So there's 32 bit 64 bit and there's also 128 bit Version of the risk 5 instruction set so the idea being that you know once we have petabytes of memory We'll still be able to address all that memory Yeah, so it's going back to the project beginning. I guess in 2011 all the way up to now we we have a bunch of different companies are involved now and The ecosystem is probably the most important thing the software ecosystem So it's fine to have an instruction set, but it's not worth it's not that valuable if you don't have support in Compilers and tools and operating systems So there's support in GCC LLVM Linux kernel Free our toss now Zephyr so pretty much everything that you need to have a system that you can develop and Build and put into production So this kind of gives you a bit of a Bit of an insight into the instruction set so it actually is a very small base So the base of the ISA is just a 32 bit integer. So that's all the bases for risk 5 so You can write software for this base ISA 32 bit integer and you'll be able to run that on a in the future We have some like 10 core 128 bit risk 5 processor. It'll still be able to run this base ISA Which is frozen? But then there's lots of extension. So this is the risk 5 32 bit integer And then there's a bunch of extensions as well So they had a person gave this talk and in his pocket there is what is called the green card So I guess back in the day when people were programming Machines with like, you know terminals and teletypes and stuff like that They would have these cards that showed all the instructions for the for the CPU So this is the risk 5 equivalent of the green card So you can see here. This is just the instructions for the base ISA, which is the 32 bit integer And it's maybe like 20 30 instructions and then this is for all the current extensions So we have 32 bit 64 bit 128 bit and then there's like a multiply and divide Different versions of a floating point compressed instructions so Even putting all that together. It's still not still not that much. It's not overwhelming and it's architected so that you can Just choose the extensions that you need for your use case So it was started at Berkeley at a team at Berkeley they not transitioned it where it's being organized by Something called the risk 5 foundation. So the standard lives at risk 5 org They also have been growing a lot So I think they have over 400 members now, which is companies and universities You can also become an individual member as well of the foundation And one of the reasons to join for companies and universities is they can join these working groups where they're Setting these new extensions like one of the things I think is in the works right now is a vector extensions So in hypervisors and so these sorts of things are adding to the base I say you can join the foundation and get involved with shaping those in companies like Nvidia is Using the risk 5 as kind of like a management controller They replace their own proprietary isa in their graphics card not the GPU But something that helps manage the device and then Western Digital is probably one of the most heavily involved companies And they're replacing all the controllers in their drives to be based on risk 5 So in in the future in video and Western Digital and other companies will be shipping millions of devices every year with risk 5 Processors in it One of the things companies can get when they do this is they don't have to pay licensing fees for proprietary ISAs and proprietary implementations, but more than that they get the freedom to Implement it as they want like I think with arm you have to have an architecture license if you want to do substantial changes To the micro architecture, which I think only a few companies have like Qualcomm and Apple everyone else like with Beaglebone We use ti parts and I think ti just licenses a specific core from arms. So if you want to Make more changes to like the micro architecture you often times can't do that whereas with risk 5 you're free to do that There's also a lot of open source implementation. So boom and rocket from Berkeley and pulp is out of ETH Zurich In swerve which I think is the Western Digital one. So there's a lot of open source implementations. Also yesterday There was a talk from open piton out of Princeton. They also have this kind of one to many Core design capable of running Linux called open piton. So there's a lot of existing projects out there that people can leverage And there's this event. I guess it used to be called the risk 5 workshop I think now it's called the risk 5 summit But these things happen like every six months So if you're wondering what's the latest and greatest that's happening with risk 5 is you can you can go to risk5.org And they just put up the proceedings in the videos from the one that they had in December In California. So if you go to the risk 5 youtube channel, there's tons and tons of talks on there I think one of the one of the main ways I've been able to kind of find out what's happening in this community is watching a lot of these videos so one of the other things I find interesting is kind of the global sense of risk 5 and One point is that the risk 5 foundation was based in the US. They're now moving to Switzerland And part of that is to be free of political implications Nations like India and I think also Pakistan have declared that risk 5 is going to be their national architecture and I think that A lot of countries want to have more control over Technology want to have more sovereign control over process architecture process architecture. So You know in this past year we saw the US Prevent there are the US current presidential administration prevent US companies from doing business with Huawei and Back at the beginning of last year was also uncertain if arm would be able to do business with Huawei They ended up deciding it was okay because arms at UK based technology, but You know, I'm sure a lot of Chinese companies don't want to be don't want to be in the position of not being able to license The cores that they need from arms. So I think there's a lot of motivation for Companies in China and other nations to have more control over the processor technology And I think like the biggest uptake in risk 5 foundation Membership has come from China recently I tried to kind of give an overview that overview of this and a recent issue of Hackspace magazine This is a short column, but if you're just trying to get a sense of what's going on risk 5 It's a hopefully a good way to in like a few minutes get up to speed So the first time I saw a risk 5 chip was the open V Which was a microcontroller from a group in Columbia? Colombian University They call themselves on chip. I think the university's UIS But this was a 32-bit microcontroller And it was a completely open source implementation They also did analog which was kind of unique about their project is they're interested in the analog peripherals One of the other organizations that I've been watching for a few years now is low risk So low risk is a not-for-profit organization out of the UK And I like that their mission statement when they started was they wanted to create a System on chip completely open source that you could use to build a single board computer Some of the people that started low risk had been involved in Raspberry Pi So I was really excited like we get like a fully open source single board computer Most recently they've been working with Google on the security project called open Titan but you can You can try out their SOC and run Linux on it. So there's a Version point seven of the low risk release right now And you can get a FPGA development board for less than three hundred dollars And you can actually run like a little graphical Linux environment on it So if you follow this tutorial, I just found out about this like I'm like two days ago from someone here at Fozdom So I'm I'm eager to go try this out myself So that's kind of like their long-term vision I think is to have a you know an SOC that's produced in volume that you could use to run Linux on Alex Bradbury is one of the people involved in low risk and he gave an interesting talk about the Ecosystem for operating systems in the tool support around it last year in the summer so one of the I'm so I'm part of the open source hardware association and kind of I would say the equivalent to that to some degree is the Free and open-source silicon initiative for chip design. So they're a great organization They organize several events throughout the year. So they have Orconf which happens every year here in Europe Which is stands for open risk conference, but there's a lot of risk five content there now as well They started doing an event in the US called latch up. So last year was in Portland in this April It's gonna be at MIT and the US in less the past year They also did a week a week of open source hardware at zero ETH Zurich So they're a great place to find out like what's going on with beyond just risk five as well But with open source chip design and they now run a website called Libre cores Which you might have firmly heard of as open core. So this is kind of a successor to that the idea is to aggregate together Processor design. So, you know, if you need to get a controller for SPI or you need to find like a USB controller You could potentially go on Libre core So they're trying to set up a way for you to have a place to go to if you want to share your Chip design IP and if you're looking for something you could potentially go on there and find it So some of the people that were at Berkeley that created the risk five ISA originally went on to start a company called sci-fi, which some of you might have heard of I think it was maybe two or three years ago now. They launched this microcontroller called the FE310 So this is kind of a Arduino form factor board that has the FE310 in it So this is nice It's interesting, but I really want to have a system I can run Linux on so I was really excited here at Fosdom two years ago I think it was that Palmer unveiled the sci-fi of Unleashed, which is their 64-bit a Quad-core 64-bit Linux so see so There's a board called the high five Unleashed, which is a pretty exciting board. It's open hardware It is unfortunately a thousand dollars because they only made a thousand of them I believe the idea with this was to be something for like early access for developers So this is one option that a lot of people are using that have access to it for doing like bring up of distros and tools and things like that so It's probably like the highest performance risk five board you can get right now But it is expensive and only available in limited quantities So Fedora actually has a risk five port as right now and they've been using the Unleashed board to Bring it up and also a QEMU So there was this talk back in December at the risk five summit from one of the people involved in here Is them running a GNOME on the sci-fi of Unleashed board which requires a lot of hardware which is probably not something You would probably want to set up if you weren't at one of these companies that's bringing up, you know something like Fedora, but Here's a you know an image of what it might look like in a few years if you Have a risk five system and you're running a Linux desktop on it So the sci-fi Solution with the Unleashed board in this FPGA board that does the graphics is quite expensive So the thing that's much more accessible to everyone is QEMU So you can with just your computer that you have right now your x86 computer You can download QEMU and the Fedora image you can run it on your computer Which is the way a lot of the work is being done right now for people that are bringing up Risk five tool chains and distros and things like that So here's an example of booting the Fedora risk five So if you have the sci-fi board, then this is the flow, but not that many people do so most people are just working with QEMU so if you Want to get started right now. You don't have any hardware QEMU with Fedora is one way to do it There is also Debian so Debian also has a port for risk five 64-bit as well. So you can either grab Debian or Fedora and go ahead and start running it on your system with QEMU now there is a Microcontroller There's smaller processor from a company called Kendrite. So this is a really cheap Processor, it's a dual core 64 bit. It's 400 megahertz with eight megabytes of SRAM Which is pretty decent for like a microcontroller And you can get like dev boards from a bunch of places seed studio has one for $13. So like a really inexpensive risk five development board Now can you run Linux on it? So there's a person at Western Digital Damien who's been hacking way on it and there's a couple or Linux kernel hackers that have been working on it With somewhat limited success. So Damien gave a talk back at Linux plumbers in September About trying to run it. So one of the issues with this Kendrite ship is that Technically has an MMU, but it's not the right type of MMU. So You have to run it with with MMU is at memory management unit So normally on your computer in most things that are running Linux you have a memory management unit and If you don't have that you have to Kind of take a path that's Atypical so you need to have no MMU support in your libraries and Linux and stuff like that Linux now has that capability In it to run as M mode. So with risk five there's machine mode and supervisor mode. So machine mode is just like we're just running with a Unified memory view not with like virtual memory and user space and kernel space. So Right now They're still kind of hacking away on it, but if they're able to get it working or if you're interested yourself you can you can check out Here's some links So here's a screenshot of them booting Linux on that sidepeed board that's $13 But it only kind of gets to this point basically logging into busybox and one of the reasons is is With out of the memory you need I think it's fdpick support, which isn't an arm way of dealing with the fact that you don't have virtual memory so Basically it's work in progress if they're able to progress it farther then we can probably start running risk 5 on really inexpensive sub $20 boards And playing around with it. It only has a megabass memory though. So How useful will it be? I'm not sure but for now qmu is probably the way to go However coming up in this year Is three processors that I'm kind of excited about from having watched some of these talks at the risk 5 summit So Andy's has a processor that's coming out. That's supposed to be Linux capable. They're saying q1 of 2020 microchip Firmly micro semi they have kind of what would be the equivalent to these island zinc So this is going to be a fpj with a hard risk 5 core and that's called the polar fire SoC And I think they're talking about second half of 2020 And then the one I'm most excited about which I saw one of my friends tweet about at the risk 5 summit was NXP is working with this organization called the open hardware group to produce a risk 5 IMX style SoC, so if you've heard of like the free skill IMX 6 or IMX 8 They're pretty popular for embedded Linux systems. You see them in a lot of different boards So I think the idea here is Something that has the peripherals that you normally have an IMX system with a risk 5 core instead of a arm core So this is supposed to be second half of 2020 I think they announced it would be like clocked at 1.5 gigahertz So pretty hot pretty high performance Supposed to have a GPU So if it's one of those vivante GPUs that we have the atnaviv open source drivers for then I think this would be really exciting There's no information on pricing yet But like this might be something that we could actually build like an affordable single board computer with That would run Linux Yeah, so by the way in these slides there's links to all these different articles if you want to check them out so one of the things I would love to do is Get a group of people together that want to help make a cheap Linux capable open source hardware board I think we kind of have to wait for a chip like this to come out So if you're interested in getting in touch with me However, we don't necessarily have to wait for these SOCs because there are also FPGAs which is what I have here So this is a FPGA. It's actually a badge with an FPGA on it and it can actually run Linux on risk 5 However, this is not going to be the same performance as this So with the FPGAs we're talking about maybe 50 megahertz 100 megahertz, maybe 200 megahertz So not the same performance that we have in a SOC So one of the reasons I'm very excited about FPGAs now like I learned them in school a long time ago And it was all proprietary IDEs and Windows and I had to run a VM. I didn't like it We now have open source tools for working with FPGAs, which is really exciting. So Back at Hackaday Super Conference, which this badge is from Person from sci-fi Megan walks gave an interesting talk about overview of risk 5 and FPGA So this is another thing I recommend checking out If you aren't familiar with an FPGA is it's a field programmable gateway So it's basically a chip that has a bunch of gates in it Like for example, this one has 45,000 gates And we can take those gates and reconfigure them to implement whatever Digital logic we want including a processor core. So like this one has a soft risk 5 processor That's the the fabric that C of gates has been configured to be a processor And then the thing for me that this made this more exciting is the fact that we now have free and open-source software tools to Do the synthesis and the place and route and load it onto the FPGA. So this started a few years ago with a group of people most notably Claire Wolf that Started building these tools for a lattice FPGA called the ice 40. It's kind of a modest FPGA But it was the first one that had like a free and open-source tool chain for it and that That referred to is generally its project ice storm And then this is actually an ECP 5 FPGA, so it's much more capable. It can do things like HDMI Higher throughput things like USB 3. I believe as well So this was enabled by the work from David Shaw So one of the things they have to do with both the ice 40 and the ECP 5 is document the bit stream So that work was done in project trellis so we can now use the ECP 5 with these free software tools and Hopefully soon some Xilinx parts as well. So Xilinx is like kind of the market leader in FPGAs And if we want to have higher performing parts The sorts of things we probably need if we want to have like a more usable Linux system in a soft core Then the Xilinx parts are going to be probably the best way to do that So I'm told in the next couple months. You might be able to use one of these Xilinx boards with the free and open-source tools If you can find him Tim Ansel is here at FOSDM He's he's pushing hard to try and get these tools working with Xilinx. So He always has the latest information. He gave a talk at a hack a day super con back in November Where it's kind of the status of where this is all at So This board I'm quite excited about is called the orange crab. It's from a person in Australia Greg Deville It's a completely open-source hardware design and he's managed to put the ECP 5 FPG on there along with a hundred twenty 128 megabytes of DDR memory. So it's a nice little small board That's actually can run Linux quite nicely. We were at the chaos communication Congress and Someone was like hey you should run Linux on it and then like a few hours later Greg and Tim hacking together They got they brought up Linux on it. So and I think Linux boots in like 17 seconds on it. So it's actually Not too bad. I'm hoping that Greg will do a crowdfunding campaign at some point this year for it Because I think this would be a nice board for people to get started with There's also a board from a hacker space in Croatia called the Radiona This one has SD RAM though So it's not quite as capable as the orange crab, but this one will be coming out soon from crowd supply I think in the next month or two you'd be able to go and back this campaign on crowd supply and Then David Shaw who did the work on project trellis which enabled us to use these tool chains with the ECP 5 He created this like ultimate board I think mostly for his own development needs But this has like a gigabyte of DDR memory either net PCI all these all these things on there This is not available. It's something you can buy you can build one if you want. I think it's probably Couple thousand dollars if you want to build one, but if you're looking for like a high-end Board for doing using the ECP 5 free software tool chain, then this is probably the highest end one One of the things I thought was interesting was someone posted on Twitter that What it what does it look like when we configure our FPGA to be a Linux capable core So we can see here like this is like the macro view of the place-and-route utility called next P&R And so this is what it looks like when we've configured all the gates to implement a risk 5 processor That's capable of running Linux So this is the badge from the hackaday super conference. It kind of is in a Game Boy style form factor I think the primary intended thing was for people to Program games and little graphics on it and walk around like your name in flames or like Tetris and things like that So there was a graphics engine and see that you could write games on their tutorials about how to do this But there was a some of us at super con that wanted to run Linux on it So we were like, oh, that's cool. It can do all these graphics, but let's see if it can boot Linux So one of the issues with this was it only had a hundred it only had 16 megabytes of SRAM it's not just it's external SRAM over SPI so it's quad quad spy SRAM which Not really that great for trying to run Linux So we banged our heads against it for for like the first day and didn't have any success And then it turned out that someone had showed up to super con having already designed a DRAM add-in board So we were like, oh, I think we really need DRAM if we want to boot Linux and Jacob was there And he's like, oh, well I designed this before I came. We're like, oh, okay. That's what we need So he had a board here with 32 megabytes of SD RAM and that proved to be Enough for us to be able to get Linux running on it so that one of the other things of this badge was the idea was you'd have cartridges so this is a One of the cartridges There's other ones like for PMOD connectors and different peripherals So I do is you know, you could give someone a cartridge and they plug it into their badge So this one you plug it in and you get 32 megabytes of DRAM So but how did we actually get a System on chip into the FPGA that was capable of running Linux and the way we in in like a day pretty much So the way we did that was with light axe, which is a pretty interesting project That is leverages me Jen, which is a Python based language for doing chip design So if you've heard of verilog or VHDL, these are hardware description languages that people use to design Hardware that goes into chips or into FPGAs So instead of using verilog or VHDL you actually program in Python. So it's Python code that actually is describing the hardware describing the Logic inside of the chip and then that can be synthesized that produces something that goes into the into the Synthesis tool So it allows us to basically do chip design in Python Which proved to be I think pretty powerful because we were able to Pretty quickly iterate on this and bang away and get it working I Light x is kind of a combination of a few things So there's me Jen, which is the domain specific language based on Python And I'll show you a little a few snippets of me Jen and a bit so you get a flavor for what it looks like And the other part of light x is these IP blocks So there's like a DRAM controller either net controller PCI Express controller SATA There's a few other ones there So these are IP that you can go and grab and tie together to build a system on chip for your FPGA And then the thing specifically that we use is this project called light axon Linux So this takes a risk 5 CPU called the vex risk Which is a 32-bit Risk 5 CPU that's kind of designed to fit well into an FPGA So they take that and they take some of this these IP like the like DRAM controller internet controller And they put it all together into an SOC that you can load into your FPGA So this is Linux booting on the vex risk risk 5 processor inside of that Linux on vex Linux on light x vest risk Yes, hard to say Linux on light x vex risk v so see Which we still don't have the display working so yeah, it's like to me this was very exciting I guess some people like graphics on the display video games and stuff is more exciting But we were very excited when we got to see Linux boot over the the you art So after we got back from super con, you know, we were hacking away trying to get it work I'm one person's laptop and then I got home and I built the board and then I was like, okay I want to get it set up and it took a bit to like figure out. Okay What's all the different stuff that we changed when we were at the conference? Finally did that so there is now upstream support in Linux on light x for this hackaday badge Which you know only people that are at the conference has the badge But if you want to have a sense of what it is like to add a new board to Linux on light x you can Take a look at these pull requests also just to give you a flavor for what the Light x and in using me gen which is Python looks like so this is Basically the file that finds the board so the hackaday badge Hatch badge And then this is basically to find the different pins that we have on the badge and how they map to Signals inside of the FPGA. So, you know, whereas you might otherwise do this stuff and vera log or VHDL Here we're doing it in Python and we have the nice object-orientedness of Python where we can import things in inherent classes and things like that And then this is also just kinds of gives you gives you another sense of what's going on here So we can you know, we import things like the Light x clocks and the light x SD RAM and then we can basically kind of just tell it the parameters that we have for our thing Hopefully I have a screenshot in it for for it as well Yeah, so like we had to add our DRAM module because it wasn't already in there So we're using a 32 megabyte SD RAM module wasn't already in light x So we just extended what was already there and added a new class where we say okay Here's our timing so you know from the data sheet had to figure out the banks and the rows and then basically the timing and then It kind of uses all the existing Infrastructure inside of like DRAM so kind of made it a minimal amount of effort to have to bring up new DRAM chip And then this is how we like add the board into the build system. So Thing here is like it's pretty basic if you look at some of the other ones They have like many many many different things that is in the base SOC So our SOC right now only does serial right now I'm trying to get it to add in flash as well, but so it's a pretty basic light x on Linux SOC so we just have serial there and then here is how we actually load the The gate ware which is produced out of our when we do the synthesis So we just use DFU util which allows us to load the gate ware over USB into the badge so if you take a look at The light Linux on light x you can see what some of the other boards look like some of them have a lot more capabilities than than this one And then it was running really slow it would take like 300 seconds to boot which is annoying So I hope this was like a great like github moment or open source development moment Where I was like oh, it's going really slow and I opened up a issue on the github repo and then like that same day enjoy digital Florent who's the person behind light x goes by enjoy digital and he posted a improvement and it was going 10 times faster So I thought that was a pretty good pretty good open up a github issue and also boots in 27 seconds instead of 300 seconds Also when I was doing this I discovered this cool thing called ASCII cinema Which maybe some of you have used before but it allows you to record your terminal Which was really useful So like I want to show was happening when the badge was booting up So I would run ASCII terminal and record it and then I could post the link in the github issue and you could see what was happening and also You know sometimes this doesn't boot when I want to show people stuff because the batteries are dead So I can always just link people to the ASCII sending video And what specifically what he did Was interesting so and kind of shows you the power of I think the the Mijian and the object-oriented nature of using Python is One of the one of the optimizations was it was having to go to memory too often Because it's just an 8-bit wide memory So we were having all these expensive memory accesses and it was slowing things down So he just made the L2 cache a hundred twenty-eight bit and that speeded it up to Brenda's Lee And that might not be like a good optimization for everyone So it's something that you can play around with in in optimize it for your use case And I played around with this number a few times putting up the 256 that shaved off like a couple more seconds So to me it was quite powerful I can just go in there and change these values and go and load it up and see how long it takes and see if that improved it or not So that's pretty much it I can hopefully show you what it looks like in the terminal so this is we're hooked over a view art here and What light ex does right now is it just runs busy box? Which if anyone's interested I think would be interesting to do something more like maybe Debian bootstrap or something like that. So It's an area of active development. The other thing too is there's drivers for the Linux kernel like you are and The other peripherals that we have in there So if you're interested in in those sorts of things if you check out light ex on Linux There's a lot of opportunities for people to get involved So let's log in to our system here. So we have Linux running on a risk-by processor and FPGA using all open source tools, which is pretty fun. I think so If anyone has any questions, I'd be happy to take them. Yeah So I'll do this first and then that one. Yeah, it's absolutely fantastic. Thank you I mean I too have been waiting since I was a you need to be able to play with this Mm-hmm. I started out with the black ice mx Phognologies. Yeah. Yeah, I got Zephyr going on top of Saxon. So I need to have a slide for that. Yeah, so Yeah, so, you know and again totally open down to the gates So I want to be able to put together a secureable IoT solutions that I just completely open this way Yeah, so the next step is to try to follow what you're doing here putting Linux onto these boards Yeah Which is very exciting, and I you know taking down some of the examples of boards to get going with Commercial terms if we're trying to manufacture Obviously we can go out and get a six. It's really exciting to see that nxp are coming out of the risk. Yeah Talking to my colleague who does the hardware side of things. He's a bit sniffy about all this, you know Because he says well FPGA is there expensive, you know, how do we make this stuff cheap? I really want to see completely custom cores with standard soft cores in them and then some custom magic to do acceleration I've heard that there's Libra silicon, which is a project. Yeah kind of small-scale basic manufacturing Yeah, I'm wondering if you know anything about the economics of how this is going to be possible to drive down cost Yeah, so I the question was about Open silicon and in the idea of pushing this down and getting things manufactured for cheaper So I learned some more about that yesterday. I think there was a Talk or actually I ran into the person that does a thing called chips for makers where he's trying to produce his own So see And he's trying to push down the cost by like grouping things together. So there's the chips for makers I also saw some the Libra silicon stuff So there's a group actually called Libra silicon and they're trying to Have like an open-source fab techniques So they I think they're working in a fab in Hong Kong trying to like bring down the cross So there's the Libra silicon people and they're also trying to create like these cell libraries I think the downside to that is it's a pretty old technology process so The one thing I have heard of that maybe maybe will help at least in terms of not having to pay for software Tools is yesterday in the open piton talk in the CAD tools room They were talking about having a chip EDA tools that are open source now. So there's a project called open roads Out of I think you see San Diego And they're creating like an open source tool flow for doing chip design So at least maybe that'll lend me some of the cost of having to pay for these expensive proprietary tools Though I think Most of that is still going through TSMC so the Libra silicon people always I know they're trying to like do their own fab technology But it is like older processes So And the other thing to just I should mention is sax so I was talking a lot about latex on Linux There's another project called Saxon sock s a x o n s o c So that's another option for running risk five Linux on risk five in FPGAs as well Yeah Have the PCB somewhere so this is sadly not Linux we're using a Nordic microcontroller But it's going to be a wristwatch style Form factor badge. So we were inspired by the badge from a camp this year at KS communications camp called the cardio So the idea is a wristwatch form factor badge running circuit python Yes, not risk five, but hopefully people have fun with it. Yeah For the kendrite or Okay, yes, yeah, yeah, so yeah Yes Yes, so if people are interested in risk five microcontrollers, there's a company called giga devices that has a really inexpensive Risk five microcontroller so I think it's like kilobytes of memory So you're not going to run like Linux on it, but you could run a real-time operating system on it in there They're quite cheap and they think Do they also have they as they match the SDM peripherals or okay? So they also have the SDM 32 peripherals so basically the things you're used to on SDM 32 But with a risk five core as well from giga devices A bit So the the hyper RAM would be at least better than the quads five SRAM Yeah So how how would hyper RAM compare to DDR memory Okay Cool. Yeah, and what was the board that was $80 that you Okay from lattice Yeah, yeah, so maybe with this lattice Board from lattice with the hyper RAM we could maybe get Linux on latex working with it or something like that Yeah, yeah, yes. Yeah, cool. All right Cool. All right. Thank you