 Good evening, and welcome back to Byline. This is a public affairs show here at Amherst Media, and it's co-sponsored by the Amherst League of Women Voters. And we're working very hard each week to identify guests to bring on to this show that help the community understand the transition that we're going through in our government, having passed the charter and now having a town council and a whole lot of change that's going on. And sometimes we have counselors, sometimes we have people from committees, and sometimes we have staff, and today is a staff day, and it was highly recommended that we bring our guest Evelyn Rivera Riffenberg on to the show. She's our new HR director, three months, ten years so far. Six months. Six months. Oh, okay. So I'm sorry about that. Well, no, I'm not sorry that you were here. Six months. I'm sorry that I got that wrong. So, but let's go back a little bit. So you live in Hoyoke? I do. You were in Chick-A-Bee before this job, doing HR. And before that, for 24 years you did what? I was in human resources in various levels of human resources, Coca-Cola, Procter & Gamble, COVID and that became Metronic, and some small startups that I worked in earlier in my career. So I've been around a little bit. Very good. And all in HR? All in HR. All in HR. So you are a private sector HR professional who's now transitioned into bringing those skills and experience into the public sector. Compare and contrast a little bit for us. What is it like? What's the difference that you're seeing having been in Chick-A-Bee and now here with HR in the public sector versus the private? So I think in the private sectors there's a lot more structure, especially for the more mature organizations like Coca-Cola and Procter & Gamble that have been around. There's a lot more standard operating procedures that are sort of dictate all the processes. And what I'm trying to do is bring some of that thought into the municipal sector and build the same sort of standard operating processes for things that we do. So as, you know, if I get new people coming into the HR department, I can just give them these procedures and they'll know what to do step by step versus coming in as kind of learn as you go. And so that requires setting up systems and protocols, testing them out, make sure they work and then doing the training of the employees in your office to make sure that they're implemented consistently so that the people who are coming in the front door have a good experience as potential candidates or as employees. So your job is in a number of, let's say, buckets, so we call them buckets today. So your first responsibility is to oversee the process of hiring staff for the town. Yes, the recruiting element. And that's one of the things that's sort of evolving as I've gotten here. So we've got converted to a software called Civic HR and it's making all the applicants apply online so everything is digital, which helps us track the types of candidates that we're getting where they're coming from so we know where to spend our... That's pretty routine now, isn't it? It is. It is a normal. People really do have to apply and if you're applying in private sector then they also have these electronic screens. So by using key words and things like that to push people off the list or put them on the list, are you going to do that here? Yes, so we're trying to do that now. So right now some of the requisitions that are out there have knockout questions, which is what you're talking about. Knockout, there you go. So if you're looking for somebody who has a CDL, for example, DPW and they don't have a CDL and they click no, it automatically kicks them off of the eligible list because now they're so free. So that makes the system more efficient. But now what happens with this? That's very objective. Either you have a CDL or you don't. How does that kind of system work with subjective things like the variety of your experience? So what we do is we screen out the folks that don't have the minimum qualifications and then it's up to the hiring committees to figure that part out. Okay, so you don't make judgment at that point. You pass all the resumes on once the knockout questions have been dealt with and the knockout questions are all objective. Yes. You either have it or you don't. Right. You either have a bachelor's or five years of experience in the field or you don't. Right. Okay, good. So now, but if you're going to hold a search, you've got to have a clear job description and you're new or you're reviewing all the existing job descriptions as positions open. Yes. That's part of our process now. So if somebody were to resign as an example, we'll take that job description, send it to the hiring manager and say, make sure that this is the candidate that you're looking for. And we have made a couple of tweaks with changes in technology and those sorts of things. Then we take that fresh job description and we use that to post for the new position. But you're using the manager in the department itself to do that. So that's not a centralized function. It's a step in the process, but you're not substituting your judgment for her judgment. She's the head of the department. You want to make sure she is producing a job description that she's happy with. Correct. Yeah. And that meets the business need. Okay. What I'm trying to get away from is people saying, you know, looking at the person that was in the position and what they brought to the table versus what the actual business need of that position. Because everybody's different than just because Deb had this set of skills and experience doesn't mean that it's better or worse than yours. Right. It's different. Right. Okay. And so now we've got a good job description. Now we've got to advertise. So you're responsible for advertising. Are we doing something new there? So my, I have an HR assistant who's sort of in charge of the recruiting part for the hourly folks. And what she's, it automatically goes out to indeed as a search engine. But now we're being very specific on where we're advertising. So if it's something for CDL, for example, we might go out to Nets and, you know, make sure that they know we have an opportunity. Or other places similar to that. If it's an engineer, we go to the engineering. And then we're taking a step further and advertising at, say, for example, Women Engineers Association or the Black Engineers Association to make sure that we have a diverse pool of candidates coming in as well. And what happens if you get a pool in and you see that there's not a level of diversity that you're comfortable with, either additional steps you can take or the pool is the pool? The pool is kind of the pool, but we've also started to engage the state with MassHire to try to get the openings out into the world to everybody to make sure that they're there. And we have a rep that my HR assistant is connecting with so that he knows what we have available, the kind of candidates that we're looking for. And then he gives us some suggestions on where to apply as well. Good. And so if I'm, because it's a, it's a, it's a value of the community that we try to have a diverse body within our government, both in appointed and elected positions and the workforce. This is something that you have a special attention on. Yes. Good. And it's not about having, you know, specific targets and numbers. It's about trying to have as diverse a pool and finding qualified people within that pool. Okay. So now the applications are all in. I'm assuming they go back to the department head. The department head doesn't do this alone, right? There's usually a committee. Yeah. There's usually a hiring committee and HR is a part of that committee. Okay. So you sit on it, but don't, you or one of your team sits on it, but you're not directing it. Right. They're directing it. So we will help them create the questions to make sure that they're getting to the, the root of what they need for that position. So we do that. Which positions need the approval of the town manager and which need approval from you and which need approval from the head of a department? So the town manager is a hiring manager for all positions, although he's really only interviews the department level for the finalists that we propose. So for example, for the town clerk, the search committee interviewed four folks. We selected two finalists. We brought them to the town manager and then we gave them our suggestions and we have a candidate that we've selected. But for the hourly folks, he signs off on the offer letter. So he knows who we've selected at that point. Another step is for the department heads. It has to go in front of the town council and they have 14 days to review this candidate and they can either accept or reject the candidate at that point. Do they have to affirmatively act or after 14 days, if they are silent, it's automatically approved? Right. If they don't act, it's automatically approved. Okay. So they can vote yes or no or they can just let it become a going to effect without their action. Right. Beautiful. And it's the whole council or is it the president? No, the whole council. The whole council. But the president sets the agenda. So she has to put it before the council within the 14 days if there's to be a vote. Yes. Okay. Did I miss anything on the process of recruiting and hiring? No, other than the next step is once we get the person that approved, the council's okay or the town manager signs the offer letter, we bring them in. And one of the new things that I had my folks do is create a hiring, a new hire orientation. So we have a PowerPoint presentation that walks them through all of the HR paperwork, all of the tax information. And we also do a little benefits presentation. So we kind of go over all of the benefits that are available. So that they understand or at least have an opportunity to ask questions that are applicable to them. And is there within the system now or being developed a kind of standard employee orientation, either individually or by small groups, as you know, every three months or so. And so if you were hired within the last three months, you show up at this. Are you doing that kind of work as part of orienting and bringing people into the culture of the organization? So we do that at new hires. So right before either on the day that they start or the day before they start, we give them all of that information. So they hit the ground running as soon as they come in and it creates a better employee experience. Great. And so that could be, is it always individual or could it sometimes be in small groups? Sometimes it's in small groups. So especially at LSSE where they hire a bunch of employees at the same time, especially around summertime, we have groups of up to, I think we had a group of up to 30 in people. Some were returning, some were brand new, and some had just come back after a year absence. So everybody hears the same thing, but then each group has a different bit of information that they get. Because the new hires need a lot more paperwork and then we just have to refresh the others. So it's worked really well. We've done the same thing with call firefighters where in front of them we give them all the information. We collect all the information so they're put into the system quickly and efficiently. So it's organized and it's efficient and they can get right to why they came to the town. So when we were preparing for the show, you used a very interesting term that I had not heard before. You used the term lead people. People leaders. People leaders. Yes. Thank you for correcting that. So that's my second mistake on the show. The third, they turned the camera off. So there are no more mistakes. People leaders. Explain what you mean by that as a person in HR trying to help create a culture for our employment base. Sure. So people leaders are any individual employees that have a responsibility for other employees. And not necessarily a department head and a supervisor and a manager. Sometimes it's a lead person in DPW. There's four people that have a crew that work with them. All those folks that lead people are people leaders. And what I'm trying to do is get all of the folks that lead people to start thinking in the same way and using the same language so that we're all on the same playing field as it were. So give me some examples. Let's say let's talk about language for a minute. What would you give me some examples of the kind of language that you hope that people leaders would use? So for example, are they meeting the expectation of their job? So if I were to talk to somebody who's a lower level people leader they may not know what that means where maybe somebody who's a department head would, yeah absolutely they're doing this, this, and this. So it's getting everybody to start thinking about expectations, goals, the requirements, and accountability for all of that. And so that requires some training to help them start thinking as a leader. Basically what I'm getting out of what you're saying is if you're a worker bee and you're a doer and you're not used to being quote a leader you could still be a leader of a team of people and in order to do that you have to develop some new skills and new understanding. Yes. And you're helping them do that even though they don't have a quote title that makes them the boss they are leading a team and so you're trying to help them think differently because they're now responsible to lead and work with a group of people to accomplish goals. Yes that's exactly right. Excellent and in the broader sense of training are there other kinds of things that again coming from the private sector that you think we need to do in town hall and within the town departments around training that you see down the road you might start layering on as other pieces get settled and put into place. So I think there just needs to be more of a cadence of training so that there's always something available for somebody to learn. So right now we're actually in the middle of some training programs that I put into place. There's a cohort of four trainings for the people leaders and a cohort of two trainings for customer service people. So it's again getting everybody to start thinking the same way critically thinking the same way using the same language understanding the concepts of accountability and those sorts of things. In the spring I'm hope I'm going to be presenting HR 101 so people leaders understand those HR things that they should at least know about. So if it triggers like I think she said I need to tell her when this happens it gets in front of issues before we end up looking the other way. So what I'm hearing from all of this is that you're trying to enhance the employee experience by constantly helping them stretch by developing new skills new vocabulary new way of looking at their job new way of looking at where they fit within the team and giving hopefully their employers their supervisors and directors giving them opportunities based on their developing skills to broaden and do more because they're capable of doing more. Yes, exactly. Is that kind of in the nature of it. So it creates even though these are very small departments it doesn't create a kind of career ladder meaning many steps because if you've got four people there aren't a lot of steps but you can enhance the experience of the job and being in that department and really feeling a part of it and really developing and broadening your capacity. Absolutely and it does help with succession planning because if you have a lower level people leader who wants to be a manager these kinds of trainings help them get the confidence and the guidance that they would need so they can start stepping up as folks retire or that sort of thing so they can move up in leadership. Do we have can you characterize do we have a relatively senior leadership structure in other words the people who are in the directorships are we kind of senior or middle age or how would you characterize it? I think for the most part every a lot of people are in the senior part of their career you know I'm new but Deb you know was in the senior part of her career we have a good flow of I think of department heads and where they are and this is a really really good time actually succession planning is going to be one of the things I focus on next year to make sure that as people decide that they're going to retire or move on we have the next person already prepped to be able to take that position. So there really is a an ability for employees to show their talent through this kind of a system and approach. Yes. When the position is vacant though isn't the research for the position or do they automatically if it's the director position can you actually automatically take a deputy and make that person the director? No they actually have to apply. They have to apply go through it but they'll have a lot of experience because of the system they know the place they know the company they know the department they know the employees and so they really have a leg up over people coming from outside so that's fascinating and fantastic that you're trying to build this kind of capacity for employees to really see a future a career within the town and see possible upward mobility. Okay let's shift to another function which is collective bargaining. Yes. So there are how many contracts that you're responsible for? There are six contracts. That you're responsible for because the school is outside of that? Right. Okay so let's talk about the path around collective bargaining. So what's your role first? I'm part of the negotiating team so right now we have an attorney a town attorney that's with us and primarily the lead speaker. I'm on the team and we have a consultant who used to be the director of HR a few years ago so she has a lot of the historical knowledge and brings a lot of energy and experience to that team. Okay and so there's a collective bargaining team you sit on it and we should probably take one step back so we've got fire. Yes. Two police unions? Yeah we have police patrol police supervisors DPW association which is the hourly folks and then DPW supervisors and then the SCIU which is maintenance and a lot of the clerical folks. And these are pretty small units? DPW and SCIU are around 60, 65. Oh that's not small? No that's not small. The others and the fire department's sizable. I think they both the fire and police are around 40, 45. So I was thinking about obviously the smaller departments but when you aggregate the people who work in those departments and they're in a unit a collective bargaining unit you're adding a whole lot of three and fours and fives and you get to 50, 60. Okay so okay and so does the town manager have a direct role or an indirect role in collective bargaining? Indirect role. So he gives us our marching orders and then from there we go and we have the discussion we get there what they are expecting we give them what we are expecting and we work from there. As we get closer to an agreement we the committee will go talk to the town manager and give them the run down and what the cost will be. So we do the cost analysis because at the end of the day it's all about how much it's going to cost and then he makes the determination of we're going to go with it or we're going to decline and we'll go back to the table to talk some more. Who usually goes first? Who puts the proposal on the table? Typically the union does their goes first. And then the town responds to that and says these are the parameters within which we have to work based on the reality of our situation which is the amount of money we have and the other contracts that we've signed with other unions before you. And so you can't deviate so dramatically although each union has a different set of needs because the employees are doing different kind of work. So okay. And then you go back and forth until you reach agreement and then does the town council have to approve the agreement? No, I think the town manager makes the agreement. He signs the agreement. In this case it's a he. He signs the agreement and now it's a contract. It's a contract, right. And then the town council, I'm sorry, then the town manager has to bake into the proposed budget. Right. The cost of the commitments made some of which would be direct like cost of living increases. Some might be indirect like the cost of training or the cost of certain things that they may have committed. Yes. Okay. And so that's when the town council gets to see it. But at that point it's a contract. So the town council really has to fund it. Right. So I think that's all tied into the budget discussion that happens. So the town manager and the comptroller work all those numbers and they have a guesstimate of how much it's going to cost and that's what they propose in the budget. In the budget. Okay. So they kind of see it ahead of time. So it's sort of what, like what happens in the legislature the collective bargaining is done by the executive and then the contract is submitted for funding and the legislature may or may not like the contract but we have an obligation to fund it. Right. Excuse me. They have an obligation to fund it. When I was in the legislature we had an obligation to fund it. But also we used to have difficulties around the higher education because higher education was actually negotiated independent of the executive although the executive gave parameters which then cause problems for the people sitting at the table because they're saying we can't go any higher because the governor will kill us. Yeah. And so but we don't have that dynamic here. No. And happily you know we have a very strong and competent work force. We also have a strong and confident management and they really do work well together because I can't remember the last time there was a major collective bargaining snafu that you know resulted in some kind of a meltdown of people saying work stoppages or as I guess first you work to the contract and then you try to do works I said we haven't had that here in town that I can remember. So that's the good news. Okay so other elements of your job in the final few minutes that you want to highlight or focus on? No just that I'm really trying to move the whole HR department forward and really utilize all of the software and equipment that we have more efficiently so that means turning our performance evaluations into a digital format so it becomes more automated getting the internal applications to also be a part of the online process so that we can capture all of that data and it's you know it's really making it more efficient and effective for everybody involved. And is that putting you in play with the effort that the community outreach officers are engaged in right now and the town manager on developing a new website? Will you be using that new website as part of your HR functions? I think the HR function is part of the bulletin board that's part of the town council website so we're going to be redirecting folks to the job board which will have all of the vacancies in there. Well and that is going to be in the town council? Yes on their bulletin electronic bulletin board. Okay excellent. Well I want to thank you very much first for coming to Amherst and helping us modernize and professionalize the system. We had a good system to begin with I trust but you are bringing private sector experience that can help us improve it even more. And so I want to thank you for joining the team and for coming onto the show and I want to thank you all for watching and we'll see you again either later this week or next week. See you again soon.