 I'm going to talk really fast and some of these ideas are going to be really new and some of them are you're already going to know about it so I might breeze over some of the nutrition stuff since most of you are probably more familiar with the nutritional importance of meat to our diet but less familiar with some of the ecological arguments I'm going to be making. So I'll just get started and I should let you know too I'm well I'll just give you I'll start with my disclosure so I eat animals and plants I live on a farm that raises animals and plants I sell books promoting the eating of animals and plants I believe that humans are omnivores and epic paid for my travel expenses to come here so I'm a show for epic thank you epic so anyone see the latest that Germany wants to propose a meat tax okay it's really really hot over in Europe right now in particular much more so than in the US I think I've done some filming over there I was just in Brussels not too long ago and this all kind of is coming generally from Sweden actually and Italy's very mad about this Spain and France are very mad about this Belgium is mixed Norway is very mad anyhow we're so we're being told that meat is this trifecta of evil so when we went through the the margarine versus butter epic you know that was just one thing it was just based on health there was no environment or ethics in there but now we've got not only is meat bad for your health but it's also bad for the environment unnecessary because humans can evolve beyond our primal barbaric nature of eating animals and it's cleaner and more pure to be eating a vegetarian diet and the other side is very well funded and well organized and we frankly are not and are you guys mostly familiar with eatland set this is global dietary recommendations that came out of Sweden earlier in 2019 no processed meat at all this is a global diet to save all of us from ourselves no processed meat at all you can only eat less than half an ounce of red meat per day which is about the size of a blueberry less than one ounce of chicken per day so you can have a twice as much chicken as meat so two blue berries worth of chicken a quarter of an egg a day but you can have eight teaspoons of sugar per day and the main fats are ultra processed seed oils so what's going on meat has become the scapegoat it's very very convenient for the fossil fuel industry for the coal industry for the processed food industry if we can pin all of our anxieties about our failing health and our warming planet on evil meat which is so powerful because it's bloody it's primal it represents so many things to our culture wealth masculinity right it's it's unfairly absorbing all of our stress and has become this this farmacost this scapegoat so what we're being told meat taxes and I had this on way before the Germany thing because this has been floated around a walk for a while this is from the physician's committee for responsible medicine which is neither physicians nor responsible they tell you that you eggs may increase your risk of diabetes by 68% which is not even doubling your risk and may means associated not directly causing so this is kind of what we're up against and they're taking out billboards we have no one in the in the primal space just saying meat is healthy right with billboards anyway so can a healthy sustainable food system exist without animals so this is the question that I've been raising and the reason why I am calling the project sacred cow is that it's an idea custom or institution held especially unreasonably above criticism so it's just assumed that meat is unhealthy no one in my town eats red meat they're educated they're concerned about the environment red meat is completely off the table okay and it's quite a compelling case to say that we don't need animals meat is murder is a very simple thing right but in order for me to unpack this and Rob Wolf has my my co-author and one of the main leaders in the film has has said that this is really a PhD dissertation to unpack all of this so I have to teach you about you know evolutionary frameworks I have to teach you about food production nutrient density basically unteach you everything you've ever been taught throughout you know school that that actually cattle are sacred and one of our best tools at mitigating climate change one of the most nutrient dense foods that humans can be eating and again who wins when we vilify meat it's these guys whose funding Eatland said these guys when we can vilify meat when we can get meatless Mondays in New York City public schools that takes the pressure off the processed food industry so what's the worst part about school lunch it's not the burger in the bun right but if we can pin all of our stress on that burger and just swap it out with an ultra processed veggie puck then which are twice as expensive as grass-fed beef then big food wins and who loses in particular is people in developing countries people where you can't just grow soy people don't own land so most of the people in this world that are living in poverty are subsistence farmers who rely on livestock if you think about it they're mobile you don't need to irrigate them they can forage a lot of time and Nestle's going door-to-door now trying to convince people this is an image from a New York Times article about Brazil where they're going door-to-door trying to get people off breastfeeding and addicted to Nestle formula with dirty water but of course now the new thing is going to be telling all these people that they should not be eating the most nutrient dense food the the best food that they have access to so and I'm particularly disturbed by what's gonna happen in the New York City public schools so here's the mayor of New York City sitting down to a meatless Monday lunch if you look closely what he's eating it's a grilled cheese sandwich and a bunch of beans so this is this is the more nutrient dense lunch so 70% of the kids that go to school in New York City public schools are low-income 10% are homeless okay this is a social justice issue and it's absolutely not okay there's only been one study looking at meat versus less meat or no meat in children and it was done in Kenya and it was a randomized controlled trial where they they took malnourished kids they supplemented one group with extra meat one group with extra calories one group with extra dairy and one group you know as the control and the meat group of course performed better physically and academically the next group was actually the over calorie group the dairy group of all three dietary interventions performed the worst so dairy is not a decent substitute for me that's the only randomized control trial they've ever done on children so there's no evidence at all that reducing meat in an already at-risk population will do anything and there's also a study that I'll talk about in a little bit showing that if we eliminated all animals from the entire US food system greenhouse gas emissions would only go down 2.6% so think about what reducing burgers one day a week in New York City public schools gonna do this much right in this study also if we eliminated all meat overall calorie consumption would go up overall carb consumption would go up and nutrient deficiencies would go up so we have to think about the nutritional cost in addition to the environmental cost because the environment is going to be here long after we're all gone so we need to be thinking about how what is the most optimal diet for humans and then how can we make that in a sustainable way but unfortunately what's driving right now is all of these environmental experts looking at you know what aspect of our food system creates the least emissions in a very reductionist view and then that's what we should be eating so not looking at this from a you know what do humans need to thrive perspective it's how do we produce human feed so and I actually even in my book looked into the environmental footprint of diabetes so when you look at all the land sets all the needles the amputations the time out of work all the hospital stays you know the environmental footprint of sick population that's overweight and has diabetes is pretty intense in addition to my frustration with the New York City public school meatless Monday campaign is the propaganda that they're allowed to put in the schools with no citations global livestock creates more greenhouse gas the entire transportation sector that's absolutely not true guess who funds meatless Mondays beyond burger okay decrease your chance of getting diabetes by 15% which statistically is insignificant by eating more beans I don't understand the mechanism there there's no citation so they've got if you go to the meatless Mondays website look at their resources they've got table tents and posters every New York City public school kid will be seeing these from aged kindergarten all the way to 12th grade that meat is unhealthy and bad for the environment and these are at-risk kids that need that iron that need that protein so this is probably stuff that you already know I'm gonna go through it a little more quickly vegetarians are not healthier than meat eaters the studies looking at you know a typical vegetarian versus a typical meat eater are largely not controlling for those confounding factors like lifestyle vegetarians are much more likely to do yoga and you know take care of their bodies and then you compare that to Joe Sixpack and I don't mean Sixpack when they've adjusted for all confounding factors when they've done studies looking at for example people that shop at health food stores therefore adjusting for you know the typical lifestyle of someone who shops at a health food store there is absolutely no difference in longevity at all between omnivores and vegetarians the WHO report that a lot of this anti-meat stuff is based on showed that bacon was the same as cigarettes or at least that's how the media and that's how the vegan propaganda films like to show it but it's not really looking at the actual risk so when you consider that smoking increases your cancer of multiple increases your chance of cancer of multiple different types of cancer by anywhere from 15,000 to 30,000 percent eating five slices of bacon every single day for the whole rest of your life only increases your chance by 18 percent so to put that in another perspective our general risk of getting colon cancer is about five percent in the general public if you ate five slices of bacon every single day for the whole rest of your life your chance would go up to six percent so is it the same you know there's this one image I remember from watching one of these unnamed vegan documentaries where they showed a mom feeding her kid cigarettes for breakfast right and then all the studies looking at red meat and cancer are all associations there's absolutely no direct link at all and observational studies suck so this a lot of this comes from the Ansel Keys again a lot of you already know this but you know saying eating saturated fat is correlated to more cholesterol is correlated to heart disease is the same as saying eating ice cream is correlated to warmer temperatures and so if you don't want to dive a shark attack don't eat ice cream or telephones in the home result in more calls the police and so if you want to reduce your murder rate just get rid of phones in the home okay that's the same logic here and then of course dietary recall everybody lies so there's the nutritional research is not a great science people are much more likely to forget that they drink and smoke they're going to remember maybe that they ate a burger last week but they're gonna forget the deep-fried apple pie the 72 ounce soda and the large fries that they ate with it and they're much more likely to remember how many times they went to the gym okay so people people are just not truthful at all in diet recall and so is it the burger or is it all these other factors or the combination of the hyper palatable food that we get from the burger and the bun and all the condiments on it that it spark us to overeat is that the same as smoking okay but aren't we eating way too much meat no we're not so the average American eats about two ounces a little less than two ounces of red meat per day of beef per day and we're eating much less protein than we should be in my opinion and I've looked at I've pretty much done a systematic review on my own looking at protein requirements where did they come from nitrogen balance studies which are pretty flawed not taking into account also the satiating benefits of protein and then you know other nutrients that you're getting from things like red meat so when you up someone's protein they're feeling full they're gonna naturally decrease their overall caloric intake regardless if I change anything else in their diet so a lot of times when I get someone that in my clinical practice that I can see is gonna be a little difficult to work with I just jack up their protein very first appointment and then we start working on other things if they're not ready to jump right in so this is looking at the amdr which is the macronutrient distribution distribution ratio recommending anywhere from 10 to 35% of protein and I like at least 20% if not more and there's really good evidence to anyone over 40 anyone stressed recovering growing it's pretty much you know anyone who wants to lose weight it's pretty much every single human there is and I'm not the only one who's saying this this was a New York Times article saying anyone over 40 needs double the RDA protein so this is starting to make it into the mainstream that actually protein is a good thing quite protective what are we eating more of so our red meat consumption has actually gone way down since 1970 look at our poultry intake it's gone way way up guess what poultry is really high in omega-6 and not as nutrient dense as beef salad and cooking oils and that's not olive oil grains and that's not pearl barley and caloric sweeteners and that's not honey right so we're eating a lot more processed food and a lot less nutrient dense food and when we're going to the grocery store this is 1982 versus 2012 we can see that we're spending less on meats even though we're complaining so much about how meat is so expensive but yet we're spending twice as much on processed food and sweets okay now I'm gonna get at the environmental stuff so soil is our life and there was an expert from the United Nations that made this quite shocking quote that we only have about 60 years left of farming if the soil degradation continues so our current agriculture system is completely failing and we really do need to do something about this but the future is not crunchy water grown 100% indoors under artificial light in plastic trays okay where I went to get my graduate degree in nutrition right outside of of the building on Louis Pasteur Boulevard where all these freight farms so in Boston that's that's the company and it's like $50,000 to buy in to be able to grow lettuce locally with all these external inputs so we have to look at the whole picture and and see like is this really making sense and what are we getting new nutritionally out of this process so I mean lettuce is fine I have no problem with people eating lettuce but this is not gonna be the future of our food it's highly expensive process they don't even take the tops off these buildings like maybe let sunlight in okay so I'm gonna walk you through a thought experiment here and this is Rob and I came up with this for our book which is actually being published by the publisher of the China study and we'll be out next year so imagine that there is another planet that is similar to earth and it's totally barren and you want to create a self-sustaining food ecosystem there so you want this to be you know resource light you don't want to have to be you know trucking all these resources from the from earth onto this new planet so you want it to be like you know able to be a healthy ecosystem on its own so the first thing you do is plant grass okay but then you come back and a year later and all the grass is dead does anyone know why the grass died some of you have been in my presentation so you need you need some inputs and you need some stimulation on that grass in order to help it grow and so you could use some miracle grow or some other fossil fuel chemicals or you could maybe find something that's a self replicating bioreactor that can actually convert this grass into more nutrition for the soil while stimulating it to grow so you come back and plunk some cows in there and now you've got cow grass cow world okay but then you come back a few years later and you find this again so what was missing from this scenario what happened what happened was nothing was keeping those cows in check and so they ate all the grass the cows died the grass died I'm going through this really quickly I'm sorry I have a lot of slides so the next thing you do is try to keep the cows in check okay and so you introduce some wolves now you've got sort of this dynamic equilibrium the wolves are keeping the cows in check they're also keeping the cows from overgrazing certain parts of the grasses and so the cows are constantly on the move because they don't want to be sort of sitting ducks you know they want to be constantly moving away from the predators that are hiding out and this also is really healthy for the land because it's allowing the grass that was just grazed a good time to rest and in that rest period is when the magic happens with the carbon sequestration and the regeneration and soil building but it's still very fragile because what if one thing happens you know a virus comes and attacks the wolves or you know something some fungus takes over the grass you're you're still in trouble again so the idea I'm trying to illustrate here is that we want complexity we want resilience we want biodiversity we want this silly diagram of as much life as possible because when you have multiple different types of grazing animals and other animals in the system once you have different types of predators if one thing happens you know to the wolves you've got another predator that can take over and so you want the world to be pulsing with life which is the exact opposite of what Beyond Burger is doing with monocropping and this is how nature works again this is an African example but it's the same thing that I was mentioning with the wolves in the cattle where you know these guys need to bunch together really tightly they need to eat as quickly as they can and they need to get off that and move or else they're just gonna get gobbled up right so we don't have to rewild everything and just allow the wolves to eat this nutrient dense food we can actually mimic this type of situation with cattle through mob grazing or there's many other terms for you know this this general theory of bunching the animals and moving them on a consistent basis so we've got holistic management adaptive multipatic grazing so I'm kind of a fan of the whole range of the idea that we just need to keep things moving what we don't want is anything stagnant that's not how nature works so humans can be the ones that are moving things along with electric fencing sometimes multiple times a day I've been filming with lots of ranchers that are doing this three times a day so it's a lot more work and a lot of farmers think this is like crazy hippy stuff and they don't you know typically your grass-fed beef is just open open the paddock in the beginning of the spring spring and just let them out that's how it's happening when I was in Iceland that's that's kind of how it is like they just let the sheep out if they're not managed properly they're actually gonna do more harm than good because they're gonna be over grazing their favorite grasses and forbs and things killing them allowing the more undesirable less nutrient-dense foods to be coming up and basically increasing desertification and degrading soil health so we absolutely have to have this type of management for for soil health and for the animal health too because if one animal here has a parasite load and they're all grazing the same little patch day in and day out all summer long those parasites are gonna get spread to every single one of those animals if they're moving constantly the birds are gonna follow right behind so a lot of the filming that I've done when we move the cattle those birds who what right in to pick out all the parasites out of the manure and then that animal can just fight off those parasites naturally but unfortunately what we've done is we've created grass world with our global monoculture culture situation and as far as lab meat goes again it we have to consider all the inputs where are they getting the the sugars to grow this meat from it's just pick a monocrop so wheat corn soy you can't make something out of nothing so that's again that's how all these fake foods are being made it's just basically a global monoculture so the next question I get is how are you gonna feed the world this way this is really nice but this is ridiculous so the first thing I'll say to that is that not all land can be cropped so where Meatless Mondays likes to say that 75% of the earth's agricultural land is taken over by animals what they're not giving you context for in this lovely pictorial graphic here is that most of the world's agricultural land is only suited to grazing animals not to cropping so if you picture basically anywhere else than the United States right like I'm gonna be filming pretty soon in the Chihuahua Desert in Mexico where they're regenerating a million acres of desert with cattle you can't till up that land and grow corn and soy okay with there's there's water issues there's much most of the earth's surface is either too hilly too rocky the soil is too poor they don't have access to sustainable irrigation and so grazing animals really do need to be on about 70% of our agricultural land and this is an image from the Savory Institute of before and after and just the powerful effects that this type of management can have so when we stop thinking about growing food in a reductionist way and start thinking about it in a more holistic way we're actually able to increase the wildlife here grow healthier food and heal the land and to me this is where it makes so much sense to those of us who already have this sort of ancestral framework because we already are trying to kind of look at how humans evolved and what diet makes sense from an evolutionary perspective this is just the food production version of a paleotype diet right this over focus on emissions is really frustrating to me this is a graph from the EPA and this is just typical beef so as a clinician I actually just want people to start eating meat and and even typical livestock is only 3.9% of the U.S. greenhouse gas emission burden and and so reducing reducing all animal agriculture then really just doesn't make a huge dent and will hurt us nutritionally and then of course grass fed beef which is the gold standard well-managed grass fed beef like at white oak pastures you would actually have to eat one burger for every impossible burger you ate in order to offset your emissions from your impossible burger consumption this is a study that came out and I've got the citation right here okay what about the water so when they say that it takes you know all this water here's that here's the meatless Mondays it takes they have another meme that it's 10 bathtubs full of water for your quarter pound burger what they're not showing you is that most of that water is considered green water so there's different methodologies at looking at water green water is rain that falls anyway so what we need to really be looking at is what is the blue water footprint of a particular food blue water is groundwater you know your irrigation things like that and then the gray water is the water used in waste so as you can see typical beef is 94% green water 4% blue water and 3% green water grass fed beef is 97% green water and 3% blue water and cows urinate to okay but isn't it so inefficient to feed all this stuff to cows can't we just be eating the grains ourselves and not feeding it to animals so this is another frustration that I have so even in typical beef production so this is an grass fed beef but even in typical beef production the majority of what these animals are eating is non-edible by humans so all cows start out on grass the ones that end up in a feedlot which is the majority of cattle in the United States but most of their diet if you look over their whole lifespan is not grain as opposed to Caffo chicken and Caffo pork which is 100% indoors and 100% grain because they're monogastrics these cattle are actually upcycling nutrients nutrient poor foods so a lot of what they're eating is actually crop residue like corn stocks from the ethanol industry distilled distillers grains from the alcohol industry that all gets reused run through a cow and turned into protein so if we didn't feed that stuff to cattle it would just decompose and emit greenhouse gases I would rather see it run through a cow and turned into nutrient dense protein for humans so actually cattle are one of the most efficient animals at you know grazing on land we can't use for crops eating food we can't digest ourselves and turning it into the most digestible most nutrient dense food possible to humans so again nature works in systems and we have to look at things in the hole so it really disturbs me there was a film called before the flood that Leon Leonardo de Caprio aired on National Geographic and he's standing with an environmental expert Giden Eschel I've gotten into many arguments with and they're standing in front of a cow grazing on some grass and Giden says to Leonardo if everyone would just switch from beef to chicken it would be a much healthier food system so first of all beef is about 30% more nutrient dense than chicken meat and it doesn't have all those omega 6 it has some omega 6s but not nearly as much omega 6s as as poultry does from an animal welfare perspective these chickens are 100% in this barn for their entire life and there's no way if you don't slaughter these chickens by five weeks they're gonna die of a heart attack anyway so I've raised chickens before and they're eating 100% grain so they're directly competing with humans for agricultural land that we could be growing food on so I think chicken is actually you know even if your choice is in a grocery store and five minutes okay if you're in a grocery store and your choice is chicken or typical beef I would still argue typical beef is gonna be better nutritionally environmentally and ethically because one cow can provide almost 500 pounds of food how many chickens would you need to kill for that and there's no humane slaughter rules for poultry so there's that and then from a perspective of least harm when you look at the number of animals that die for a typical you know eat-lanset type diet that's very low in animal protein and very high in grains and industrial seed oils and the number of critters that are annihilated when we have to turn a field into or a pasture or a forest into a monocrop you know we have to annihilate everything above and below ground in order to get that nice and flat so that we can then run the tractors through to plant and then we're spraying everything to make sure that there's no extra life that comes on and then you know after harvest we have to fumigate all those rats so that they're not gonna eat all the grain that goes into our bread so when you compare all of those lives to one grass-fed cow that's actually improving ecosystem function and increasing biodiversity then provide 500 pounds of meat the choice is really clear that that the diet of least harm actually must include large remnant animals but the problem is anything even remotely close to death is completely taboo in our culture and we don't want to talk about it so we farm out our old people we send them to nursing homes we don't want to deal with death we don't want to think about our own death or or anything to do with death and certainly we can't kill a cuddly sheep that's part of the problem so the urbanization of humans has really led to this horrible disconnectedness to our barbaric primal nature as animals and less than half the US won't even admit that they're gonna die period so I mean even in the ancestral health world there's a lot of people like overly consumed I think with longevity instead of looking at just quality of life right like I would rather just go out with a bang having fun and feeling really great than living to 110 and that's another reason why I actually get really irritated when people say oh but you know less protein is you know good for longevity it's like okay if you want sarcopenia and you just want to be like wheeled around for the last 30 years of your life maybe you know but if you want to be strong and vibrant then eat protein from animals better meat is not elitist I did a blog post where I actually looked at the price per ounce of all these foods and organic grass-fed beef was less expensive per ounce and I wasn't even looking at per ounce of protein or poor per nutrient I was just looking at per ounce and then I went to Walmart and looked at the price per pound of organic grass-fed beef I as a you know local farmer I do recommend trying to connect with a local farmer to get your meat but you know when people tell me that I'm being elitist and that it's not accessible to everybody I get it not everyone can have a chest freezer and put up all that money to buy half a cow at once which is fine so organic grass fed beef from Walmart is certainly a fine option for those folks and Beyond Burger is actually twice as expensive per pound it's just that their package price C4 they're selling it by the half pound so there's an illusion here but the package is larger so this is one pound for 598 half a pound for 484 and look at those ingredients so one of the researchers I'm working with for the film is actually doing a nutrient and now a micronutrient analysis on impossible and beyond burger and so I'm excited to really have that data because when you go into chronometer right now it's not the full set of data on micronutrients of these foods okay so more information about my film is at sacred cow.info I did create this this is a double-sided flyer 11 by 17 or I have a very large poster this is my last slide one minute it's perfect and so all these are all the main talking points nutritionally and environmentally there's another side to this and I have citations for all of my claims on here again the book is coming out we're actually launching it at polyphase farm next summer on July 14th and the film will be out just before that too so I'm I'm killing myself trying to get this film done we're about to move into post production I'm really really excited about that and I've already been invited all over Europe Australia New Zealand Hawaii Chile I'm going to present on this in Uruguay next month people are really really ready for this and I have really really credible experts I've got the United Nations so there's this other you know media thing going on right now with the United Nations report is telling everybody that we have to eat vegan or we're all gonna blow up and die and it's not what the report says I do have experts from the United Nations talking about the importance of sustainable livestock production to especially developing countries and I'm gonna you have even more of them next month at this global meeting that I'm gonna be going to and filming experts from all over the world at so thank you hi thank you Diana I'm your belated session chair so we have a couple of extra minutes because the intro session ran late so we have full the full amount of time which is 10 minutes for questions so no worries so I'll get your questions and I'll just give myself the first question because I'm session chair so you mentioned that it the statistic for taking me out of the diet of every American is approximately 2.6 percent in terms of JG emissions so I thought one thing that might be interesting is to look at what are the emissions that you can possibly reduce by taking yourself out of that the medical industrial complex by having adequate protein yeah so I I there aren't any statistics looking at that on a big population perspective perspective but I did find some greenhouse gas footprint eco footprint of these you know dialysis all the plastics involved in that I mean so I did look at some of the data I mean this is a huge undertaking because I'm I have to break down the China study I have to I have to respond to every single one of these you know without making a book that big or a film that's 20 hours long so so I look forward to more information and more people coming out of their silos and putting all of these ideas together like if we're gonna you know try to save the planet we need healthy people at the same time so how do we do that balance hey excellent as usual as you probably remember I'm a faculty in pediatrics at the University of Washington which makes me associated with Seattle Children's one of the best children's hospitals in the world and one of the biggest we have a bit of a problem in that we have a CEO who thinks we should be serving less meat luckily just in the cafeterias rather than to the kids but there is a big drive to improve the environmental impact or reduce environmental impact of the hospital which is huge and so I've been sending them a lot of the data that you showed are very similar to say hey if you switched your beef to grass-fed beef you could basically make your meat carbon neutral and like mines blown everywhere obviously however when I speak to the the head of nutrition which I will do very soon who's in charge of buying this meat when she turns around and says where do I get beef for thousands of people a day that's raised this way do you have any like do you have tips about rather than do this on an individual scale how do we do on a large scale I say this is where you go and find that beef yes I'd love to connect you to Verde farms are actually located in Massachusetts and and they're the largest supplier of grass-fed beef in the United States to Walmart and Costco so they might have some ideas I can make introductions for you I actually sat through a presentation from health care without harm and I was shaking like where their lead dietitian was bragging about how they've reduced meat to patients by 68% she's bragging about this and I so I I didn't say anything in the middle of presentation because I knew that was going to be like triggering but I did go up to her after which was still triggering to her and set you know protein requirements actually go way up when people are in hospitals so how how can you justify this like so there's this huge disconnect between you know and and I've been labeled as you know right wing for saying that eating meat is healthy like it's a very political it shouldn't be but you're either a less meat environmentalist or you eat meat you don't care about the environment and there's there's no people can't you know when I go to these grass-fed beef meetings it's all less meat less meat less meat less meat better meat and so when I say more meat better meat that like totally stresses them out and and has made it so that I actually have not gotten a ton of funding from them because they it's that's not a message they want here great information particularly on the health side and on the environmental side one one argument you sometimes hear is that if people were to shift to a more meat intense diet there wouldn't be enough land to sustain the world's population have you done an analysis looking at that and showing totally have the land yeah I have it in my book and and sort of by country and globally it could sustain the same population or more than an agrarian I have US numbers on that I don't have any global numbers I mean we're there's so many of us because of fossil fuels I am answering so many questions right now that it's it's really hard to then be the only person that's out there like I'm a dietitian and a farmer right to to then extrapolate all of this and do all these calculations for the world what I can tell you is that there's too many of us do we want lots of people fed like crap or do we want healthy people and our current system is completely failing and producing sick people and killing our environment and so regenerative agriculture is actually the only solution we have moving forward and you know I there's 20 people but that's not within my scope as a farmer to I mean I can only talk about best practices and I can only talk about you know what diet I believe is is the most nutrient dense yeah hi so now regarding nutrition I it's apparently said in some regulatory body that the vegan diet is healthy for all ages yeah and yet I see lots of evidence that infants and babies don't do well on plants only yep can you yeah I'm actually gonna be presenting in in January to the dietary guidelines committee about why I think that if a parent wants to feed their child a vegan diet they need to go through an education program signing off that if there's any evidence of failure to thrive or malnutrition that they will start feeding their children a species appropriate diet and that they need to be visiting a pediatrician on a much more regular basis than once a year so something like you know every other month in order to monitor for any signs of failure to thrive okay and then part view of that is do you know anything apparently there were four people that were able to vote on that resolution and they were vegetarians but they didn't disclose authors of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics position paper were all one of them works for Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine one of them's a seventh-day Adventist and the other one has and they all have vegetarian and vegan cookbooks for sale but they declared no conflict they did not declare any I remember that yeah okay thanks yeah hi Diana great talk my question is I'm looking for practical advice so I work as a trainer I coach people to get in the best shape and the best health of their life could you maybe give me advice that I could give to a client on how they could eat as healthy as possible and procure specifically like the healthiest quality of meat possible so I always try to get people to fix their health before they worry about sustainability and I just think it's just can feel really overwhelming like I couldn't find a grass-fed steak so I ate a bagel you know and so I would go with I really like what Marty Kendall is doing with the nutrient dense protein sparing modified fast as sort of a really great template for you know looking at nutrient density plus jacking up the protein and just focusing on nutrient density you kind of can't argue people just tracking things in chronometer jack up their protein you know set set their macros and then have them look at you know there's zinc and copper and all of that kind of stuff and see you know what foods they gravitate towards or Marty has a really nice nutrient optimizer like website you can go to I happened I'm not a super competitive person but when I did that challenge I like had to be the most nutrient densest like I had to beat Rhonda Patrick you know like I was like and it was super fun for me as a nutrition geek to do it so you might enjoy it as well and then once they're kind of used to eating you know after 30 60 days they're kind of used to eating just more meat and colorful vegetables then you can talk about well you know you might want to find a half cow from a grass-fed beef farmer that's near you eat wild calm is a really great resource to you know partner up and find farmers that do good practices great thank you yep all right another round of applause for the fabulous Dan Rogers thank you