 Hello, and welcome to Dataversity Talks, a podcast where we discuss with industry leaders and experts how they have built their careers around data. I'm your host Shannon Kemp, and today we're talking to William McKnight, the president of McKnight Consulting Group. Did you know Dataversity offers free monthly webinar series and online conferences throughout the year? Stay in the loop when you follow us on Twitter at Dataversity or on Instagram at dataversity underscore edu. Get podcast extras and bonus content when you subscribe to our channel at youtube.com slash dataversity. Hello, and welcome. My name is Shannon Kemp, and I'm the chief digital officer at Dataversity, and this is my career in data at Dataversity Talks podcast dedicated to learning from those who have careers in data management to understand how they got there and to be talking with people who help make those careers a little bit easier. To keep up to date in the latest in data management education, go to dataversity.net forward slash subscribe. So, today we are joined by William McKnight, the president of McKnight Consulting Group, and normally this is where a podcast host would read a short bio of the guests. But in this podcast, your bio is what we're here to talk about. William, hello, and welcome. Hello, Shannon. Great to see you. Likewise. And of course, I know you already because you do the monthly webinar series with us, Advanced Analytics, on the second Thursday of each month, but I'm excited to learn about your bio today, William, because I don't know how much I've know about where you came from and how you evolved into your current group. So let's start there. So you're president of McKnight Consulting. So what does that mean? What is McKnight Consulting and what do you do? So I do a lot of the running of the company and a lot of the client engagement in terms of strategy and and diving in and out of the projects, doing advisory and oversight of our projects. And I do a lot of our industry analyst work, which is a pretty significant part of our work these days. So that's the work we do for various vendors in the space of data. And that's what it that's what it means. And that's those are some of the things that we do. You're the founder of McKnight Consulting, obviously. Oh, I shouldn't say obviously, but, you know, it's got your last name in there. So it's for customers. What customers are you helping expand on that a little bit more? You say vendors come to you, you know, is it what what kind of customers? What kind of service are they? So on the one side, we have our enterprise clients and these are right now they're financial, pharmaceutical, telecommunications, retail, consumer goods, and then, you know, various odds and ends. There's all sorts of things out there, right? Health care to health care is a strong vertical force. So it's companies in those spaces that are trying to do more with with their enterprise data. And so we get involved a lot of times with the strategy for that and the ideas and shaping the ideas and forming that into execution plans, what we call an action plan. And so that's the technology, the architecture, the plan quarter over quarter for the foreseeable future of what metrics they need to hit to be successful as an organization, how they can measure that success, what people they need on these projects to make it happen. And all that sort of thing. We go into 100 plus variables on on these plans. So we do a lot of that kind of work. But on the other hand, the vendors that have strong value proposition again, to help our enterprise clients, you know, get get stuff done that they need to get done, those companies, we help them as well with their messaging, with their internal architectures, with their competitive positioning and so on. And to that end, we do some white papers. I do a lot of speaking on webinars. And as they come back now, more in person events, keynotes and whatnot. And we do benchmarking and we do all sorts of creative things that that I think really fill a need out there and just helping everybody get educated. Winnings, I like it a lot. So so tell me, William, when you were very young, just in elementary school, as we say here in the US, was it did you dream of of starting your own consulting company? Like I'm going to start a consulting company in data. Oh, yeah, of course. No. No, I mean, at some point, I think I'm I'm still growing up. So I don't know when when that all happens. But, you know, definitely not back then. It was it was I wanted to be like my heroes, a baseball player or professional wrestler or, you know, something like that. But that eventually morphed into what I do now. And I really enjoy what I do now. And so, yes, at some point in the in the long term past, I did start to to bend this way with my career. And I'm I'm so thankful for it every day is a little different. Of course, this industry is very dynamic. It keeps changing, keeps keeps becoming more and more relevant to the enterprise, you know, and enterprises keep pushing the envelope. And it's just fun to be a part of that and maybe lead it in some small ways. And and so I am so so happy that I'm here. But no, as a child, I wasn't looking at it that way. Well, tell me a little bit about that journey. So, you know, as you're going through as you're growing up and going through different studies, you know, what did you what did you start? Learning and and, you know, where was your first job and career? How did you get going? So computers really came aboard when I was in high school. And I believe I was a freshman and in a class I took was cobalt with punch cards. And so we bring the stack of punch cards to the computer and just just pray that it all worked out because, you know, if one of those cards was wrong, that was that was a problem. But I really took to it. And I think we got legit computers, maybe by sophomore, junior year. And I used to stay after school and write games. And it was kind of rewarding that other kids wanted to play my games, you know, that I was writing and so on. And I really got no career direction from home or anything like that. But one day, Mr. Pouche, my computer instructor in high school, looked inside and he said, if you don't get into this business of computers, you're making a big mistake. And that was it. I mean, that's that was the career advice that I got all growing up. And so with that, I thought, well, OK, that sounds good. I enjoy it. So I went on to get a BS in computer science. And when I graduated, I had some interviews. One was at IBM. And I'd actually had a co-op at Lockheed Martin in sunny California after my junior year, and they weren't hiring again. So I looked at other companies in that area. I mean, I went to school in Tennessee. So, you know, I'm looking across the country there. But IBM was one of them. And I interviewed with four different hiring managers that day. And they all wanted me at the end of the day, the HR manager said, OK, you know, you got your pick here, what do you want? And I remember one of them was CICS. One of them was DB2. And I don't even remember the other two. I don't think they were products that had much legs to them. And I didn't know the difference between any of these. And so I just thought, well, DB2, it sounds kind of cool, you know, DB2. And so and so I got into that. And of course, that was an early, strong database in the market. And so one thing led to another from there. I just stayed with databases and the evolution of databases into data warehousing and data science and all the things that we do now. So I just kind of stayed with it from that point on in my career. Oh, that's amazing. So so you started at IBM. Yeah. And then where did you go from there? Where how did you get in? How did that evolve into your consulting business? So some of the listeners may remember a company that I joined after IBM, which was Platinum Technology, and they were a big high flyer back in the day. And it was it was it was fun and exciting to be a part of that early the early journey with them. They put me on the road traveling weekend and week out three to five days a week. As a 25 year old, I was I was out there with a lot of responsibility going to enterprises and teaching them DBA, system administration, SQL design, programming and so on. And I was honestly, I was learning on the fly, but I pulled it off and did that for a few years and then kind of burned out a little bit on the travel. That's when I got into my first contract position. And my Platinum had a consulting arm to it. So I observed that when I was there and it was intriguing. So I took a contract and then eventually a second or third contract. I ended up at Visa. And of course, they have a lot of data. And this was the early days of data warehousing. Bill Inman had just put out his seminal book on the on the subject, which I got. And I tried to apply, you know, maybe doing it the wrong way, you know, technology first, right? But we built a data warehouse. It was an early successful data warehouse there at Visa. And I was the director of data management. And that was on Informix in case anybody remembers that. That was one of the early MPP databases. And so from there, I went on to Anthem insurance companies where I was a VP of I.T. That was in Indianapolis, the CIO there that I reported to. She just made life miserable for for everybody that reported to her. So I just I got out of that situation and moved back to the Bay Area. And I took another contract. But that that I stuck that time I stuck with it. I didn't hire on like I did at Visa. I stuck with it and went from contract to contract. And that was the beginning of McKnight Associates. And one of the key things there in my career was I went to TDWI, which we all know that was the Data Warehousing Institute back in the day. They had a lot of data warehousing kind of training. I went to an ROI class. Well, by then I had my MBA and I had some thoughts around this from my experiences and so on. And and frankly, the class was not that good. And so I went to TDWO and I said, I don't know what you're paying that guy, but I can do a whole lot better job than than he can on that class. And so that began my my my series with TDWI, where I've taught now over 100 times and ROI was one of the big classes that I that I've taught so many times for them over the years. And so I ran McKnight Associates for seven years. And obviously, at that point, I was into consulting. I love that. And I love that piece of confidence that you had to say, I can do this better. I can I can do this. I can let me do this. And that's that's amazing. I love that that initiative that you took to to get that job, to get that to win that. I think that's a really key skill there. And backing up just a little bit, totally off topic, but I have to go on to this tangent here. So you talked about how when you were very young, you wanted to be your heroes were athletes. Yes. So and I know and I'm looking at a row of medals behind you. So I know you're still very athletic. You want to tell us a little bit about that as well? Oh, sure. I love talking about that stuff, too. I consider that my second job. I mean, I train every day and I have for decades. And I've always done a lot of lifting, a lot of yoga, soccer and martial arts. But about 10 years ago is when OCR obstacle course racing hit the scene and I started doing that just on a lark. And I kind of got addicted to it and kept kept wanting to do better and better. And about seven years ago, Spartan introduced their competitive waves, so I joined that and I've done a bunch of Spartans and a bunch of other kinds of OCR concepts. So I'm usually on or at least threatening the podium for my age group. And so, you know, it takes a lot to stay stay at that level with it. And there's one in particular one concept in particular that's come to America in the past few years. And that's called high rocks and that's a combination. H.Y. is for hybrid. So it's a combination of strength and skill and and and endurance. And so I've been doing I've done I've done that one a few times. And I'm actually the national champion at it for my age group in North America. And so that's two years two years running on that one. And I'm doing I'm still I'm still trying to figure myself out athletically because I like so many different things. And so it's hard to hard to dedicate. But I've done a little dedication to OCR and it's paid off. And I continue to do hit training, lifting, yoga, soccer, martial arts. You name it on a weekly basis. So that's that's what I do when I'm done when I'm done with work. That's amazing. And so that's a lot of discipline and to to do that and dedication. That's that's awesome. Do you find there's any crossover in your data work with your athletic work? Do those principles are well, I think the the dedication. I have that same dedication to my clients. I mean, it's it's even stronger to make sure that they succeed. So, you know, the commitment that I give to this is the commitment that I give to the things, the few things that are important to me. And my clients are clearly that as well. I can't cook, I can't repair around the house. I can't do any of that stuff. But I can do these athletics and I can I can do data. So I I'm pretty much stay committed to the things that I'm good at like that. I like that. That's great. We can't be all good at everything, right? So the focus definitely, yeah, yeah. With a robust catalog of courses offered on demand and industry leading live online sessions throughout the year, the Dataversity Training Center is your launchpad for career success. Browse the complete catalog at training.dataversity.net and use code DV talks for 20 percent off your purchase. So tell me, William, what is your having worked in data for so long? What's your definition of data and how do you work with it? Well, data is everywhere. It's a renewable resource and keeps generating inside of these enterprises. And it has a lot of potential and it has more potential than anybody's realizing with it. And it's just kind of fun and creative to try to find out how to make the most of data's potential inside an enterprise. And we have these these structures and we have a little bit of science around them like data warehousing, data lakes, data streaming, graph databases, master data management and so on. And it's like a big old puzzle. And I really enjoy the creative aspects of this. And so data, it's unrealized potential within an organization. It's the the biggest asset that I think most enterprises have. And a lot of them are realizing that right now and they're really trying to do more with it. And there are there are things technically that get in the way. There are things that are not technical that get in the way. And I just want success for my clients. So for that, we try to knock all knock down all those barriers and get to some real end results. I like it. And do you see the importance of data management and the number of jobs working with data increasing or decreasing over the next 10 years and why? Well, I've been pretty, pretty vocal about that. I think jobs are going to undergo quite a bit of change with artificial intelligence over the next decade. And I don't think data jobs are immune from that. But I think they're fairly resilient as they go. I'm not sure about growth, but I think in terms of relative growth and relative stability and importance. Yes, I think it's definitely there because data is the foundation for artificial intelligence, which is the next big way for these enterprises. And still people have to have to do things for that data. We have to build structure. We have to get the data in the right structure, make it all work together properly, apply data quality, data governance and so on. And it's actually very confusing out there for the enterprise today in terms of what to do. I don't envy them. So it's nice being a third party that can weigh in on the decisions that they make and help them move forward because it's complex now. And from where I sit, I think it's going to get more complicated for them before it gets less complicated. So if anybody's out there waiting for, you know, the the the waters depart and, you know, everything to be kind of smooth sailing in terms of decision making around data, I don't think it's going to happen. I think we have to work with in this morass of all the possibilities for the rest of our careers. I like it. And what advice would you give to people looking to get into a career in data management? Would you recommend that they get into AI or in the data prep side of it or all of the above? Or and how do they go to learn and prepare for something like that? Yeah, I think you hit on a couple of the important areas that I would direct people into and that's one is support for AI and how do you get data into the right place so that it can be utilized by AI? Because historically, we as data management professionals have been a little bit removed from all that, you know, what they're doing over there with the data, that's their job, you know, not my job. But I think that with AI, you have in order for that to all to be successful, you have to be you have to know more as a data management professional. And you've got to bring more to the table. And that's to be overlapped with the data scientists. And so I would definitely say AI, data prep, yeah, data integration, streaming data, high volume, big data, that sort of thing. Yes, definitely knowing how to deal with petabytes of data within an enterprise, within an application. You know, that's really important to an enterprise. That will that will lock things down for you, I think, for for quite some time. There's somebody is looking to get into that. Is there a skill set that they really need or some more than others? I think I will address that by talking about the mindset of that. And if your mindset is, well, I got to go off to a class and, you know, I got to take five days off of work and this and that really enterprises don't have the appetite for that much anymore. And I think the younger generations is starting to get that because there's so much you can learn out there on, you know, videos, you know, be at YouTube, be at data versity, be at other, you know, great places like this that have education. And I'd say I'm well-rounded in data. And I and I think that served me well. And I would definitely say get yourself well-rounded in data. Know a lot about a lot of different things and definitely use the tools that are available to you, which, as we all know, has just, you know, that's exploded recently. And I'm not sure anybody has their head completely around chat, GPT and, you know, how that affects training, education and, you know, how how you organize your own resources and your own knowledge base. But, you know, definitely you want to consider that as well as you go forward and make it a daily practice. So I go through my busy day. I'll come across an article, a video, something on data versity, of course, where I'm visiting daily and, you know, I'm finding things. I want to know more about that. And so I will just I'll put it aside. And then at the end of the day, when things aren't so frantic, that's when I'll dive into my education. It might be a half an hour. It might be an hour. It might be longer, you know, if I'm really getting into it, because I really enjoy learning in this space. And so you got to have that enjoyment of learning to be successful. I'm hearing that from a lot of people, you know, that taking the time to be curious, to keep learning, to never stop learning, especially in the technical side, where things change so dramatically, you have to keep up or become obsolete along with the tech, right? Absolutely. Are there any other you do a lot of teaching? You do a lot of speaking. No, that's not for everyone, per se. I mean, not all data people need to be able to give an hour presentation or give a class. But is there any other soft skills that data people of people in data need? Data architects, modelers, data scientists that that go with those technical skills? Before we jump off the teaching stuff, I'd say that, you know, I'm passionate about teaching. I'm passionate about sharing my expertise, as you know, or you wouldn't have me going by fourth year, doing the advanced analytics series with Dataversity, the second thirsty of every month. But I think one thing that that does for me is it forces me to kind of mobilize my thoughts and organize my thoughts. So they come across coherently, you know, in that hour. And that's true for all the webinars that I give and all the keynotes and other talks I give. So don't discount that even if you're more on the shy side. I definitely am, but, you know, when it comes to speaking, I just have to overcome that and give it my all because, you know, I really want people to walk away going, yeah, I learned something there. That was good. That was worth my time because a lot of the sessions that I sit in on are not that good, and I don't want to be that. I put a lot into whatever I deliver and that's so much for me. But I think the question was more, you know, soft skills. How about getting along with others and negotiating and delegating and making sure things get done? I think that's one of the homeworks that I put out there from my company, which is we get things done. We don't just talk about it, but we'll get it done no matter what the hurdles are. I tell people going into the project, there might be this or that hurdle. Knowing that going in means you start to take care of it day one, but it still might be there, but we're going to get past it. We're going to get over it. And there are different ways of doing that. And here's what they are. So, you know, let's go in with with a clear mind. We're not going to get blindsided. And so, you know, knowing how to really get things done, not just talk about it, but that's an important soft skill. I like it. So defining the angle and understanding that it's not necessarily going to be easy, but it is possible. And here's where it's going to lead you. That's right. Start with the ending line. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, I love it. So, William, if somebody were to solicit your business, how would they find you? McKnightCG.com at Sandford Consulting Group is the best way you can learn about our services there. You can see some of our research and things like that there. I like it. Anything else you want to add that any more words of wisdom for those out there looking to get into a career and data? I would say come on in. The the water is warm. And as I said before, you know, it's it's it's a great place to be. I've certainly enjoyed it for quite a few years and take a broad view of it, you know, be opportunistic as well. If you get the chance to dive in on the B.I. side of things or whatever whatever the case may be, just just know that you're not. You're not an Oracle DBA. You're not a Tableau designer. You're a data profession. Take a take a big view of what it is that you do so that you can see the bigger picture and make yourself more valuable. I love it. That is great advice. And so, William, I really appreciate you taking the time. I know how busy you are and for all of our listeners out there, if you'd like to keep up to date in the latest podcast and the latest in data management education, you may go to dataversity.net forward slash subscribe until next time. Thank you for listening to Dataversity Talks brought to you by Dataversity. Subscribe to our newsletter for podcast updates and information about our free educational articles, blogs and webinars at dataversity.net forward slash subscribe.