 Good afternoon. My name is Javina Baker and I am the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Educator with the NIU Illinois CTE Project Team. In collaboration with the Illinois State Board of Education, we are going to be talking to Sophie today about her career as an attorney. These videos that we are doing are called the Trailhead series and we are giving these videos to the public so that they may be able to be used in their classrooms and in high schools all throughout the state of Illinois. The purpose of these videos is to give our students a look into different careers and different career pathways. Again, today we have Sophie with us. Thank you so much for joining us today, Sophie. Yes, thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. So Sophie, could you tell us just a little bit about yourself? Yes. I am an attorney. I currently reside in Charleston, South Carolina. I am the youngest of four. I have one older sister and two older brothers. I grew up in a small town outside of Rockford, Illinois, which is not too far from Chicago. I went to the University of Missouri in Columbia, or people know it as Mizzou, but I studied political science and business marketing. And then I came to Charleston for law school and I haven't left since, so. How's the weather there, Sophie? It's beautiful. I'm very spoiled. Don't miss the snow. If you like warm weather, it's the place for you. It's humid sometimes in the summer, but I'll take it over over the cold winters any day. Illinois, I would agree with you. So tell us a little bit about your job and what makes you excited about it? Yes. So right now I work for a local law firm. They primarily work as plaintiff's attorney, or they do primarily. They are plaintiff's attorneys. They primarily work in workers' compensation and personal injury claims. So we get to interact with the community quite a bit. And like an average day in my life would be, you know, it's funny because I never wanted to have the same day over and over and over again. And being an attorney definitely get different doses and changes every single day. So I don't have like a typical day. A lot of communicating with different people by phone, you know, by face to face. But sometimes, you know, I'm preparing for a hearing or sometimes I'm talking to clients, sometimes I'm talking to adjusters, other attorneys, sometimes I'm just writing or researching. So it kind of just depends. But I think, yeah, a lot of talking, a lot of moving parts going on. But it's exciting. And it's, I never wanted to be like doing the same thing every day. So it works well for me. And what's the most exciting thing about your job, would you say? I would say I think meeting new people like working with all different types of people is the most exciting part of my job. So tell me about some of the challenges or obstacles that you find in your day to day work as an attorney. Yeah, so when you work with people of all different walks of life, managing people's expectations, people's disappointments, trying to, a lot of my job is like advising, right? Like attorneys, they're called counselors or they're called, you know, advisors, because we're giving, you know, we're taking our knowledge and our expertise and our experiences and trying to apply them to someone's certain situation. So there's not like a one, you know, size fits all approach to this. So I think when dealing with people, you know, it's emotional. I'm working with people who are injured, who their lives have been turned upside down. They're completely inconvenienced. They don't know what to do. They're seeking help. So it can be, I think you have to be quite aware, like self aware, and you get humbled quite frequently in terms of just, you know, I have my own perspective, I was raised a certain way and when you deal with so many different types of people, it's just, it's not always what you think it's going to be. So I think that being able to adjust is a challenge, but also, you know, keeping it, how I phrase it, I think, yeah, managing my own expectations, my own disappointment, my own emotional intelligence and awareness, because you can get really invested and things don't always turn out how you plan. And so I'm a planner, so I like to know how the outcome is going to be. And, you know, with the law and with other people, you just, you know, always have that type of certainty, which can be a challenge. I understand. So did you always know that you wanted to be an attorney when you were in high school, Sophie? I mean, I don't think I thought about myself older when I was in high school. I mean, I always, for as far back as I can remember, I knew I wanted to work with people. I was always interested in the law. So I like to say like, oh, I've always, you know, known I wanted to be an attorney, but in high school, particularly, I don't think I was thinking about that. I knew I wanted to work with people and kind of came. Did you have a different career in mind? And if so, what did you want to be when you grew up? Yeah, so I, I imagined that I would be a writer. Like, if I always say if I wasn't an attorney, I would have liked to be an author. I always felt like it was something I was good at and I could, you know, reach people in that way. But I don't want to say I never, like I, people, even when I was little, I didn't grow up around attorneys. No one in my family is an attorney. My sister is an attorney now. We actually, she's a couple years ahead of me, but she, you know, I never had that like exposure, except in books. Like, you know, you read about the presidents and you read about Ruth Bader Ginsburg and those types of people. So when I, when I was like, oh my God, that'd be so cool, but I didn't really know how to get there. So I just didn't really think about it until a little bit later, but it always interests me like the law always interests me and then people in positions of power were lawyers. And it made me interested because I wanted to be in those spaces and, you know, make some impacts in the world some positive impact so. So you had mentioned books when you were in high school, and the possibility of becoming an author or a writer. So what classes did you excel in that you think now translated very well into you being an attorney when you're in high school. Yeah, so I was always good or always interested in English. To kill to kill a mockingbird is one of my favorite books and we read that in junior junior year, and then I actually, I don't know if it was, I think it was a class, I might have been a club but I was by one of my teachers recommended to join debate, and that was a very you know pivotal kind of, I guess point in high school where I realized you know if I can speak well and think well and like organize my thoughts, you know, I can build an argument make people listen maybe change their minds and you know I'm really thankful for the teacher that did suggest that it was, it was a good suggestion so those are the two to two most favorite classes I would say. Awesome. So, for the students who are watching this video, what advice would you give them as high school students to inspire them or give them advice about becoming an attorney how could they prepare themselves right now. I think they could prepare themselves I think ask questions read about things try things you might not necessarily think you will like. Now that they say knowledge is power it's absolutely true. I didn't have, like I said I didn't grow up around attorney so I didn't really know quite where to start but we have such amazing resources like the internet where, you know, you can find a pretty good, you know, idea of what it's going to take to get you there, or who you could talk to a lot of people within, I know in when I was growing up in the community were really willing to talk to me about how to get there what I was interested in so I would say that yeah just do your very best to put yourself out there and don't like nothing is out of reach you know like you like I said back then I was like oh I don't know if I could do all the schooling or if I'm going to make it to college or after college but it's totally possible and I think like the best advice I would give is, and this is like separate from anybody who wants to be an attorney or not but specifically in my experience and being an attorney it's so important to surround yourself with good people who support you and uplift you because it is a hard road. It's hard, it's not a walk in the park you know not a lot of people want to take that journey so it's important to have good people around you and who believe in you and can tell you I know I did that you can do it and you know it's half the reason I feel like I'm here so yeah. So talk about your education if I am a high school student and I want to become an attorney could you talk to us just a little bit about the education that's needed and the some of the requirements that you would have to to go through to become an attorney. Yeah, so you do need a bachelor's degree but that degree can be in anything so it's one of those industries that we're really fortunate because people are you could be mathematicians not a lot of lawyers are going to math it's a joke amongst the community but you could be you know an artist you could be theater that I know a bunch of people who have all different types of degrees. And then you have to take a standardized test called the LSAT which is for components it helps you place kind of like the same the ACT or the SAT when you go into college. And then those are the two biggest requirements is. And that's you take the LSAT in your second to third year or fourth year of undergrad and then you apply to law schools one of the ABA accredited law schools in the country. And you have like a personal statement it's like a very cohesive application where you put like your grades your jobs where you've lived. But it's interesting because like in medicine you need certain requirements and you do need requirements to graduate but attorneys are all shapes and sizes they could be. Like I said very into science and engineering or artists and liberal arts and reading and English business people all different types so I think that that's really important because we're you know representing the masses and you need to be able to relate to them and you need to be able to have an expertise or a way of talking to just all different types of people so. And then what do you need to be able to practice law. Yeah so you need to pass one of the so I took the UBE which is a universal bar exam. So I think there's about like 35 states that like subscribe to it some states like California or I think Florida, they have their own bar exam. So they call it the bar but there's there's different types and it's made up of multiple choice and essay for all 50 jurisdictions but if you pass. You're able to practice law in which you are licensed so recently I took it in South Carolina and I passed the UBE but you get scored. So I was I scored high enough to wave into North Carolina so. Congratulations. Thank you yeah thank you there's some reciprocity which is really nice. You know some states if you've been practicing for three to five years or two years or whatever like a touching seat or something then you might be able to also practice if you apply. You have to go through character and fitness which is a part of the bar application process which is them, you know deciding if you're ethically sound and kind of a very extensive background check and application process to see if you're fit to not only okay you passed the test but are you responsible do you tell the truth do you adhere to you know the moral standards of the Constitution like requirements things of that sort. So it's a long process to be an attorney but I think every step of the way it's you know in the end it's worth it it's taught me a lot not just like from the legal standpoint but also just having the endurance the stamina to you know across every threshold comes your way. Sure. You talked a little bit before about being self aware and some of the skills that you need to be an attorney. And what we often refer to those things are as the essential skills and employability skills, and what that means is is outside of your technical experiences of being an attorney, knowing the law, you know being able to state cases and so forth. There's also things that are very valuable in the essential skills. So, they were referred to as the soft skills but we know that those can be difficult for students to, to learn. You also talked about being a planner and that absolutely is an essential skill. So, can you think of any other essential skills outside of the technical part of being an attorney that a student might benefit from knowing and practicing, like time management, communication, being self aware. What things do you think that you needed to master in being, being an attorney? Yeah, so I would say, and this might go across all, you know, career passes. Again, I think communication skills is like so important. So like not just writing and being able to formulate a particular like, like beginning, middle argument, but also just being able to relate to people and listening. Like that's, that's the biggest key of all of this. Like it's communicating, it's not just talking, it's also listening. Being able to be patient, you know, resilient and having like organization, time management, all of that stuff I think it can be taught. I think you can learn those types of things. You can learn most everything. But the things that we kind of pushed to the wayside, like you said, the doctor skills that are much more apparent and I deal with those like 80% of my day more than, you know, the commas and the punctuation and, you know, people get over my spelled emails and things like that but being able to do the stuff that really is like having the interactions with people being respectful, all that stuff is just as, if not more important than being like knowing, you know, case law and being able to recite certain things because in the real world and you can figure out the answer, but if you can't get people to listen to you and you can't listen to people, you can't work with people, you know, you're always late or you're not organized and it can make your life pretty difficult. So I would say those three things, resilience, patience and communication. Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing that. So what advice would you give to people that come from a background like you said you don't have any attorneys in your in your family. So where might someone seek some support. If they're looking for a career in in law or in that career pathway. So, um, I think the guidance counselors at most colleges do afford you like a lot of resources. So when I was at Mizzou we have a law school there. I was really able to go and talk to professors or go and talk to like current students at the time. If you're in high school I would say the same thing reach out to your guidance counselors reach out to your local municipalities I know you know people are open. It was different during COVID but people are now more open to having you observe them in the courtroom. In their offices and just, you know, if you if you have opportunities to intern or shadow certain things that I would take that I would just go for it I think that exposing yourself to as much as possible in, in a lot of different context is because you know a lawyer isn't just someone who's in the courtroom you know there's judges there's people who run businesses there's academics there's professors it's. It's a lot of different areas so if you if you have the opportunity to ask something of someone who you see yourself wanting to be like, or you know is able to answer a question for you I would say, just ask the questions. That's great advice. So Sophie, you talked a little bit before also about how emotional sometimes. Some of the cases that you get can be and the disappointment. I would like to know how do you celebrate your successes. I have learned to write them down I've learned to write down my successes and my failures and really like taking a moment I think for most of my life I've always looked to what was next like how you know you finish undergrad then you want to go to law school then you have to cross the bar and then you have to start practicing, you know, working and I think it's important to take time and write it down and really remember how I felt and really remember what it took to get me here and, you know, doesn't hurt to have a nice dinner and tell everyone you know love and who loves you about what happens but I think that's my favorite yeah that's my favorite thing to do when something really really good happens is write it down. So you're keeping record of your wins that's a great way to look at it. And my last question. What's next for Sophie. Are you still going to be interested in workers cop and personal injury or do you have other aspirations. Yes, I love what I do right now I never thought that I would particularly be someone who worked with individual clients like I always wanted. I always but before I wanted to be an attorney that wrote policy I still have aspirations to do that I want to, you know, use my words and my, my writing to be able to impact a larger scale of people on, you know, issues that I'm talking about like education and women and all of those different shades of what I have going on right now but it's been amazing to work with people individually and have that type of satisfaction and interaction that I don't think I would have if I didn't take the job where I'm at right now. But that's the great thing about being an attorney I think it offers you a lot of flexibility I kind of talked about it before but you know, people think of an attorney in a courtroom, you know, objecting and, you know, throwing their fingers on the thing and crossing a witness or asking questions to their witness. It's a lot more than that it's, you know, can be people who build businesses people who, like I said, professors judges policymakers. A lot of our presidents have been lawyers a lot of our, you know, it people are like intellectual property people. There's so much is the thing so I feel extremely blessed that like I know that this is it. I'm not stuck in something for the rest of my life and afforded a lot more opportunities and I think that, you know what I would say to women is we need more women in spaces of power we need more women and places that we haven't historically always been so if you're interested in it, you should go for it you should, you know, not be shine asking for help and getting all the information that you can because it really is. It's your life and you can. Again, before full circle moment back to what I said before is, um, you know, you can do it nothing's out of reach. So yeah I have have other plans. You know, so paper president that's awesome. But I would like to, you know, see what I can do and more of a public space like private sector is very different. But we'll see we'll see. Well thank you Sophie so much for taking the time to speak with me today I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. I appreciate you being an inspiration also to young people who might be interested in becoming an attorney or looking at a career field in law. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed my time and you know it's this series is awesome. I'm super proud to be a part of it and let me know how I can help in the future.