 That's a cage for your mom. You used that line a lot, your mom. I don't know what you're talking about. I literally never said that. Literally. Literally. Bovoroniko, you just said it just now. Whatever. Are you even kidding me? Are you trying to mock me? No. When I went like Bovoroniko, you just said it just now. That was definitely mocking you. You're right. You're feisty today. I know. One day. Like someone pours sriracha in your latte or something? I had so much sriracha at lunch, guys. There you go. Now we know. Really a lot of sriracha. Sriracha popcorn. Clear it out my sinuses. There you go. Good for what ails you. I like sriracha noodles. I'm hungry now. I went, I had delicious. Have you guys been to House of Pancakes? The International House of Pancakes? Or all the canal. The Chinese House of Pancakes. Oh, yes. No, I've not, no, I don't, no. No? I've never been there. I know exactly what you're talking about. And I think I went there once. Oh, it's not like out by Stone's Town. Yeah. I went to, no, I've only been to the Milbury House of Pancakes. It's so good. Lots of pancakes. It's not that kind of pancakes. It's Chinese pancakes. I know. It's a joke. Oh. All right. That's the noise that says it's time to start the show. All right, I'm going to hide. Here we go. The Daily Tech News Show is brought to you by listeners like me. To find out more, visit dailytechnewshow.com slash support. This is The Daily Tech News for Monday, November 21st, 2016. I'm Tom Merritt joining me as she does Mondays. Ms. Veronica Belmont, how are you? I'm fantastic. How are you? I'm doing well. Thank you for asking. This is The Daily Tech News Show. The color commentary to your technology life, helping you understand a little more about the technology and the world around you, maybe provoking a few discussions of your own out there. And Veronica is fired up today. Hot like an oven. Hot like we are going to talk about ovens, as a matter of fact. We've got a Fast Company article that provoked a bit of thinking, a bit of thinking, and possibly some ranting on our parts today. But let's start with our top stories. Instagram decided to rip off Facebook Live, its own parent company, and Snapchat with its new features this time. New features starting to roll out Monday for Android and iOS involve the ability to send a direct video or photo message that disappears after the second viewing. So when you post to Instagram Stories, the Snapchat like interface, you can now choose to just like in Snapchat, send those videos directly to friends. And then when they watch them, then they go away. I can't keep up with all the stuff, man. I can't, like I don't know what any of my apps do anymore. But you use Snapchat, right? Not anymore, I kind of stopped. But you know how you can send a video and then also include people as well as send it to your story. It's exactly what Instagram's doing now. Okay. Exactly the same thing. The second thing they're doing is a little more interesting called Instagram Live. Let's you broadcast live video to anybody who follows you. Stream goes away when it ends. There's no saving the stream, no watching the stream later. It is totally ephemeral. Instagram will only send notifications that you're live to some of your friends, the ones that they guess will be interested. And everyone else would need to notice a live tag on your Instagram story bubble to get in there. Instagram will also highlight the most interesting live streams in the explore tab of the stories section. So there's another way you could find it. Features are going to arrive for users over the next few weeks. If you don't see it right away, that's why. I'm curious to know how they decide who they think will want to view your live stories versus not. It's the same way they decide who's people to put up at the top of your feed. You know how it's not chronological anymore? It's like, oh, these are the people you like most often. These are the people you interact with. It's like that. So if people are interacting with you a lot, especially once you've done a few live streams, if they're always watching your live streams, then they'll be sure to get the notification. That makes sense. I guess that makes more sense than just kind of blanket notifying everybody. I remember Periscope used to do that and I found it pretty annoying because I didn't really, yeah, I didn't really want to have to watch every single one of those, but it did actually lead me to discover a lot more than I probably would have otherwise. So maybe you can turn it on somehow and get all the notifications. That would be nice. Yeah, I mean, I would like the choice, I guess, although I probably wouldn't turn it on. I wonder if they're, you know, now that Meerkat is gone, the need for a stream that you can't save was open. Is that something we need, though? Because Periscope members started with a 24-hour period and then eventually added the ability to save the stream in the cloud forever. Feels like I know Instagram's trying to combat the perception that you must be perfect and beautiful to use Instagram and that's part of the reason here, but I'm not sure, I don't know. I'm not sure that there's a ground so all the people who were dying for this feature. I would like to be able, at least personally as the creator, to want to be able to save those videos, just for my own reasons, I guess, but I do kind of like knowing that someone else can't save them, perhaps. That's something that video-wise, I think I liked about Snapchat. Obviously, you can take a screen grab pretty easily, but it was a lot more difficult to go through the process of saving a video. So yeah, it doesn't strike me as crazy, but I always like to have as many options as possible. I like to decide what I want to turn on and off versus having an app decided for me. As you were sort of indicating with the ephemeral messages earlier, it does make it hard to keep up with what Instagram can do and it's a little bit convoluted to figure it out and explain to people like, oh, okay, so these pictures go into your stories, these go into your regular feed, these videos are videos that you upload, they're not live and you can save them, but these videos are live, we can't save those. It's just kind of all over the place now. And maybe that's why I've kind of just shut down and I don't use anything anymore, or I'm just doing less interesting things. Who knows? Well, moving on, Bloomberg reports, Apple has disbanded its division that develops wireless routers like the airport express. Engineers have apparently been moved to other teams, including the Apple TV group. Routers have not made up a significant part of Apple's revenue, so that might have something to do with it. Not Reuters routers. No, Bloomberg reported this one time. This came from Bloomberg, not from Reuters routers. Yeah, I believe that Apple probably wouldn't want to spend a lot of time making routers if they're not selling a lot of them, that makes perfect sense. The only thing that struck me about this is time capsule and its backup service seemed to be at one point something that Apple was very proud of. And granted, you can use time capsule with other devices. You don't have to use it with an airport express or with a time capsule, particularly, but the time capsule has the router built into it. So I'm not surprised that they're getting out of the router business. There's plenty of people making routers. And in fact, I see it as a positive for Apple to say, hey, you know what? We don't need to own every single link in your ecosystem. Yeah, yeah. But I do wonder what happens to some of those services and some of the music services that worked with the airport as well. What happens to those? Will they liberate them or make it easier for us to use them on other devices? I think what it comes down to is just people, there are so many inexpensive options out there that cover routers at this point. And if you buy an external hard drive, that cover things for time machine specifically. Time capsule, is that, I can't remember now how that was different. Was that a separate unit for time machine backups? It's basically an airport with a hard drive built into it so that you could use time machine to back up to it seamlessly. Okay, well, yeah, that's nice to have. But at this point, external drives are so cheap, so inexpensive, it doesn't make a good case for itself. And maybe nobody's using time machine anymore. I mean, there's loads of ways to back up. You can use crash plan to back up to local drives. Yeah, I do both. Carbonite, et cetera. So yeah, I mean, you don't really need to use it. And maybe Apple's willing to just let that go. No, no, no, no, no. Number one, redundancies. Number two, you have a cloud backup and you have a physical backup. You always have to bubble up. Oh, no, of course. But crash plan can do your physical backup as well as your cloud. Can it? Yeah. It can back up to a hard drive in your house as well as to the cloud. In fact, it does that for free. You don't have to pay for crash plan and do that part. And other things like carbonite and services. We'll also do that. So you don't necessarily have to use, and maybe that was the problem, is people are like, oh, I'm paying for carbonite. So I'll use that to do a local backup. And it's just another feature that Apple might not necessarily need to use. However, the fact that they put some of these people on Apple TV makes me wonder if we'll see Apple TV supporting some kind of Eero-like or Google Home-like device that is going to work as a network hub. Maybe not particularly as your router. Maybe assuming your router is gonna be fine, but some sort of home device could be. I mean, in light of the news today that Eero's going to be working with Amazon's Alexa, that could, there could be some validity to that. Yeah, I mean, I have the Eero and I enabled the SEAL and so now I can turn the LED off. I know, it's like, why did we do this? I'm sure there'll be more. I'm sure there'll be more. What's this for? Symantec plans to acquire identity theft prevention service life lock for $2.3 billion. Both boards of both companies have approved the deal. It's expected to close in Q1 2017 pending regulatory approval. Of course, you best know life lock as the service which alerts customers about attempts to use their identity and the guy who put a social security number in the ads and then got hacked. But it also does training. They train police, governments, non-governmental organizations, retail organizations and identity protection techniques. So this will fold into Symantec's cybersecurity portfolio quite nicely, I would think. Are you a life lock user? Should, I mean... Yeah, I don't know. Who wants to know? Should we say that? Who wants to know? Yeah, I don't like to say things. I'm not. Yeah, I mean... That? No, it has been debatable whether that is a useful service or not or if it's just credit monitoring on steroids. And that's certainly an argument to have. I think what it has shown is that life lock as a company on its own felt best like a tribute to a wider security portfolio and I would 100% agree with that because do I take security precautions? Absolutely. Well, speaking of security type things, Oracle has acquired DNS provider Dyn which was most recently in the news for suffering a denial of service attack in October. Oracle had been in talks to buy since August and intends to roll it into its cloud computing platform. Dyn handles DNS and other services for 3,500 customer sites including Twitter, Netflix and Pfizer among others. Dyn will keep its employees, products and customers though Oracle said it will review Dyn's product roadmap. Yeah, I feel like this is the kind of story that doesn't really make the top of the top like it is today if Dyn hadn't been DDoSed. Right. Everybody learned about Dyn who didn't already know about Dyn in October when Twitter went down. You know, when you couldn't get to Netflix suddenly everyone went to figure out what was going on and was like, oh, there's this company and they do domain name serving for the big companies. So the fact that Oracle swoops in and buys them looks like Oracle either picking up a bargain because they got hacked or making an unwise choice because this is a company that got DDoSed when actually it has nothing to do with either of those things. Oracle was, as you said, talking to this company back in August, right? I think it's actually more interesting if this has continued to go through in light of that. I imagine there were some pretty tense meetings after that went down. Yeah. And honestly, Oracle probably looked at what Dyn did and said it must have said satisfactory, that's fine. We think you reacted well, we don't think you devalued the acquisition. I mean, we don't even know what the actual amount is officially for this acquisition. So maybe it changed the price but it certainly didn't turn Oracle off of buying them. And I don't think it should. A study called Broadband Competition helps to drive lower prices and faster download speeds for US residential consumers pretty much setting up its findings in its title. It was conducted by the economics consulting firm Analysis Group. This is a group that is very literal apparently because they're group of analysts. And that was the title of their fund study. Their study was funded by a consortium of companies that make fiber network equipment. So I mean, it is in the interest of the people who sell fiber network equipment to have studies that come out that say, hey, people should build more networks so we can sell them equipment. But none of the findings are going to shock you but they do have some numbers here. Gigabit service in a market is associated with a $27 decrease in the average monthly price of Broadband of 100 megabits per second or greater. So they're saying when you get competition, the price goes down. Gigabit prices themselves declined 34 to 37% when there are two companies offering gigabit service in a particular market. And introduction of a fast speed by one company in a market does bring the speeds up. It makes it four to 17% more likely that competitors will offer service that matches that speed. And they certainly start to offer higher speeds in any case. So again, this is not something I would not have expected. But sometimes you need the studies to show like, well, no, we looked and it turns out yes, competition does increase speeds and lowers prices in US markets. I was actually surprised by the four to 17% more likely that competitors will offer service that matches the speed. I would feel like it'd be higher. Yeah, that's a good point. It isn't a huge number. And maybe it's because of the markets they surveyed. Maybe it's because of the time involved because if you do want to try to play catch-up with somebody who's offering gigabit, it could take a couple of years if you don't already have DOCSIS available and if you're a cable company or something. So maybe that's why. I would have liked to see that number be higher too. I cannot believe that their group is called analysis group and they conducts analytic studies. Yeah, well, and their study is called broadband competition helps to drive lower prices and faster download speeds for US residential customers. Like, I don't really need to read your story unless I want to see your methodology, which you probably, somebody... It's like the opposite of bearing the lead. Yeah, they're elevating the lead to the headline. And this is gonna be useful for people who are trying to make the argument that there needs to be some kind of municipal internet or some kind of encouragement of people to bring gigabit to their town because when you do get one service, whether it's the city running it or somebody else, when you do get one service in your town, it helps everybody out whether they want that service or not. Newtonomy has signed an agreement to expand its autonomous car tests from Singapore to Boston. Newtonomy will begin testing self-driving Renault Zoo Electronic Vehicles in Raymond L. Flynn Marine Park and Industrial Park in South Boston. Unlike the tests in Singapore, the Boston tests will only have engineers in the car not pick up the public. And Newtonomy spun out from MIT in 2013. I don't know Boston well enough. Do you know that part of South Boston with the Marine Park? Is that a place where people would need rides? I don't think so. If it's the place I'm thinking of, no. So it's probably for the best that it's just engineers. Yeah, it used to be called Boston Marine Industrial Park, apparently, before they renamed it. And yeah, it sounds like not a ton of people would need rides, but it is Boston, which means it's going to be challenging to drive no matter what. So that's a good place to test some cars, I would think. I think I shot a student film there, actually. Oh, really? I think I had to do the audio on a student film there and it was so noisy, because if I remember correctly, it's under the flight path of Logan Airport. Oh, wow. And it was just very windy and watery and airplany and it was a nightmare. Now in Singapore, they're picking up passengers, but it is in a very small area. It's in one little office park area. I do think that it's harder to get US cities to agree to that, although Pittsburgh did. But maybe that's the plan, as Neutonomy thinks, if we can take care of things near Logan Airport, then it's easy enough to expand to Logan Airport and start giving people rides there. Someone tweeted or mentioned the other day that they requested an Uber and an autonomous vehicle came and also an Uber driver came at the same time. So it was like seeing both ends of the spectrum and the human driver was like, I don't think they came for the same person, but they both arrived at the same time, to the same event. And it was kind of- The human driver went out and slashed the tires. Yeah. But I think the first time I get picked up by an autonomous vehicle is going to be a real holy crap moment. Yeah, even with an engineer on board, obviously you'd think holy crap if there's nobody in it. We've got a long ways to go before that becomes common place, but even if there's a person in there just sitting there not touching the wheel and it drives on up, yeah, that's pretty crazy. And it's happening. We get people emailing us like, hey, I saw one and even a few people who've ridden in them. It's great, it's amazing. So yeah, keep an eye on it, just another one. Another one. And Neutonomy, making the return, obviously. They started at MIT in Cambridge right near Boston, have been doing most of their testing overseas and now making it back. So happy homecoming to Neutonomy. And thanks to all those who participate in our subreddit. You can submit stories and vote on them at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com. Mark Wilson had a story out last week for Fast Company using his experience with a smart oven called June as a metaphor for problems in Silicon Valley. Now, to be clear, and I think Mark makes this clear in his story, he's not criticizing June as a product in particular. In fact, they found, he was using a prototype and so there were some bugs and not all of it is really working exactly as it was meant to and there was one piece of user error that was his fault. But the short version of his story is it's supposed to make things easy but he was uncertain about when cooking was ready or done and constantly getting notifications that were changing the time left in the cooking made it more complicated. His estimated time of finishing went from 10 minutes at the beginning of his cooking of some salmon to 20 minutes and ended up taking almost 40 minutes which essentially is like watching a progress bar in a software installer or a download where it's like three minutes left, oh wait, six minutes left, oh no, it's five minutes left, like it's just bouncing all over the place. And Wilson points out that most kitchen appliances are one button. You got a knob to turn on your oven, you got a pulse button for chopping, et cetera. If it doesn't work, it just doesn't work. That's all there is to it. June, like so many other things from technology, full of prompts, full of options, he was unclear how to start his toast one time because he had forgot to press a check mark to confirm. And so here's the thing that kicks off for discussion. Wilson writes, June is a product built less for you, the user, and more for its own ever impending perfection as a platform, because the whole thing's based on machine learning, right? It gets smarter the more things it cooks. Is this a common problem in tech? I feel like we are trying to, and I say we as people in the technology industry, are trying to solve some problems that maybe don't need solving. And I think this goes way back too. I mean, really kitchen appliances and kitchen technology have kind of been the go-to to show how far mankind and humankind and women kind have come in terms of our progress. Like if you go back and look at, when you go to world of, what's the Epcot presentation they do tomorrow, the world of tomorrow? The world of tomorrow, yeah. Like all of the technology is centered around making the woman's life more easy by having microwaves and automated toaster ovens and things that are supposed to make you spend less time in the kitchen. And so it's funny that that's become the standard of technology progressing in a civilization in many ways. But at the same time, it's really just easier to develop these soft skills as he says in the article, to know when a piece of food is done. Like actually being able to tell by sight and by smell and by touch and by taste, instead of depending on a machine to tell us when it's done. This sounds very obvious, but at the same time, like a lot of the products that are coming out right now are trying to automate things to a level of complexity that I think makes them kind of ridiculous. And this is kind of one of those defining examples. You're supposed to be able to walk away from it and let it finish cooking for you. But if you don't trust that it's actually going to do that with any level of certainty, then you're actually devoting more brain cycles to wondering if it's working properly. And again, I don't think the June smart oven is unique. Almost every piece of technology that I own has this issue. Every time I turn on a new device, it has to update itself, right? Which is good. We say that. We want it to auto update. But at the same time, you can't just turn a thing with an operating system on and use it anymore. You have to wait for the update. You have, I have had things where I turn on my smartphone and I want to go to an app and it's like halfway through an install because it timed it wrong. And then that install gets paused. And then I have to go in to the app store or the Google Play Store and stop it and restart it. And we're troubleshooting everything. And I think it's an underlying problem with design of electronics and technology is that we haven't fixed a lot of the basics ways they work, but people who make them, the engineers, the designers, all of us, right? I'm pointing the finger right back at myself are so excited and so used to dealing with it that we wave that away. Like, oh, well, yeah, you'll get a couple of buggy notifications. No big deal. But we're used to that. And at a certain point, you don't want everything to act that way. Yeah, this kind of goes back to that protopia conversation we had a couple months ago. Technology makes our life easier, but the problems it creates kind of take that one step back at the same time. So we kind of end up incrementally improving over time, but not as much as we would if the technology didn't cause us so many issues. I had this problem this weekend, the Windows Defender update that I think we talked about last week came onto my gaming PC and broke six. So I had to spend an hour out of my potential gaming time on Sunday fixing my computer and turning off, adding dependencies to Windows Defender so I could use civilization again. So it's just like, I mean, I love technology, obviously, but there's things we need and things we don't need and varying degrees to which we need them. And we still need to learn basic skills. Another thing we talked about, I think in the past was the idea of like, is technology turning us into man babies where we can't do and lady babies. I could be a lady baby. It goes both ways where we can't do, we can't do our laundry anymore. We won't take things out for dry cleaning. We can't go grocery shopping anymore. Now apparently I can't put a piece of salmon in the oven without getting 50 notifications. So life skills are still important. On the one hand, I'm sympathetic with what Wilson's saying about, hey, knowing how to cook and knowing that the sizzle on the steak means that the pan is good enough. Yeah, no, that's important if you want to cook. There is also a legitimate goal of I don't want to learn to cook. I don't have time to learn to cook. And part of the modern convenience is, you know what I don't have to do? I don't have to go down to the stream and get water anymore because I have indoor plumbing and I don't have to get the washboard and the lye soap out anymore. I don't have to take a poop in the woods. Don't have to take a poop in the woods. Those are significant advances that save us time and cause us to be more productive. And so I think it's reasonable to say I would like to have good nutritious food prepared fast and the microwave has brought us part way there, although good and nutritious can be debatable a lot of the times. And it's certainly a legitimate field for someone to try to innovate in, but we're bringing along all of these problems that make it, as you say, erodes the benefits of being able to have that convenience. And I'm not trying to be a crybaby about it. I'm like, if it's not actually more convenient, then it's not useful to me. And I wonder if there isn't just some underlying hardening of operating systems and software that still needs to be achieved before we can really spread a lot of the benefits of technology into other things. I agree with that. And I don't wanna be a hater either. Like I obviously like, I'm not the greatest cook on the planet, trust me. Like I had to like really go out and learn how to do this stuff, but $100 it's a lot of for a toaster oven. It is a smart toaster oven to be sure, but you'd probably save yourself a lot of time and money just learning a few basic skills in this particular case. But it does, if this thing breaks down, what are you gonna do? Like if you become dependent on this device, I'm giving like a real black or white kind of scenario here. And I understand that. I just, I get frustrated sometimes. Yeah, and I think it's because it's not wrong to want technology that makes things better, but there's this, there's a dissonance on the marketing side of, hey, this device will do all these amazing things. Well, and then you get it and it sort of does, but it doesn't really. And then there's the engineering side where it's like, hey, this thing can do all of these amazing things as long as you're willing to troubleshoot every once in a while and set up the proper settings and make sure the configurations are appropriate. And that's also not what most people want. People just want stuff to work. I used a smart grill for a shoot that I did with CNET one time and this was recently actually. And the grill was hilarious. Like it did, it said it would do so many different things. And just the sheer, like not being, we couldn't even turn it on. And this was a room full of technology people and producers and smart people all around. We could not get the grill to turn on. And it just kept giving us these voice prompts over and over again. And we're like, sometimes you just want to set fire to something and have it work. And I blame two things. One is operating systems by their design are fault tolerant. And that's why they're great. That's why Windows was an amazing innovation and why I know windowed operating systems wasn't first to Microsoft, but it's why Windows conquered the world because it was fault tolerant and could allow a lot of things to happen at once. But we don't want fault tolerance and a lot of things happening to once in our toaster. We just wanted to do the one thing. Toast the thing. Yeah, or even in our oven. And so we need to get better at single purpose operating systems, single purpose software, as well as networking. I think networking is a whole other issue where networking is, again, fault tolerant, right? When all you need to do is make sure the packet gets there within a reasonable amount of time, it can fail a bunch of times and you can still deliver the packet. When you're relying on networking, to do something like deliver video is the most familiar example to people. That kind of fault tolerance becomes a bigger problem because the packets need to all be there for the video to play. Indeed. Yeah, there's a lot of improvements to be made before we can start walking out of the kitchen completely and having our meal be prepared for us. Yeah, but it's achievable. And maybe the problem isn't that June is making these mistakes. Maybe the problem isn't that these other smart ovens and smart devices are making these mistakes. Maybe they have to make these mistakes. That's how we get there, right? Is you have to put these things out and go back to the engineers and say, no, this is not okay. This is all kind of irrelevant because I'm just going to have my robot butler take care of this for me. So I'm not really sure. Are you, though? Or is your robot butler going to have the same problems? Ah, damn. Too bad. This is going to keep knocking on your door. 10 minutes to salmon. Then 10 minutes later. 12 minutes to salmon. Wait, I thought you just said 10 minutes. Two minutes ago. Well, it changed. It changed. I don't want a progress bar in my desk. So hungry. That's what I said. Meanwhile, all of our information is being observed by everyone. Nate Langson does the text message podcast and he's got something to say about that in the UK. Hey, thanks, Tom. Let me just ask your listeners if they would be happy with hearing their government was going to log everything they do online into a database and make it available for spy agencies and police forces to search it to find out if they've been involved in any criminal activity. Probably not. But that's exactly what's happening in the UK. I've discussed that in detail on text message episode 76 available now at techpodcast.uk or simply search for text message in iTunes. Over to you, Tom. Keep up on the UK. Check it out, techpodcast.uk. Facebook just announced today bringing 500 more jobs to London. So things are looking up on the tech scene there. Let's get to our messages of the day before we get out of here. And our message today comes from Alex in our engineering department. Well, he says the engineering department. This past Friday, he was listening to myself and Jerry talk about the sprayable cement Faraday cages. And Alex says, you were throwing around possible applications but one came to mind immediately for me. I recently worked as an engineer designing and working with extremely high power electrical assemblies for subsea equipment under the ocean, things like pumps, processing, et cetera. Like other large capital electrical equipment, everything is tested regularly through qualification and buildup. Tests like partial discharge testing, high voltage breakdown, have to take place in a Faraday cage. Often, this is like the size of a small room or walk-in cooler. But when you get to the final assemblies that are deployed off of ships, because remember this is a subsea stuff, the equipment gets enormous. For instance, if a company like Shell wants to drop an umbilical cable that delivers all of the data and power to the equipment on the sea floor, it is spooled up and built topside. This site can be just under a square mile. And without a Faraday cage that big, electrical testing has to be done with a ton of background noise. Sometimes you have to shut down the entire site because several hundred yards away a test is going on. Often you need the best analysts in the world to figure out what the partial discharge test is telling you with all that noise. This spray-on cement Faraday cage could see a huge boon in terrestrial or subsea major electrical testing wherever you need to throw up a cage to hold testing for a few months while you build up. It'll be interesting to see where they take that technology or if they can get back to the self-heating angle. That was the original project that they were doing, self-heating roads. Thanks for all your great work. You do awesome shows, sword and laser cord killers, et cetera. Thank you, Alex. I wish I knew more about that story you guys talked about that does sound super interesting. Yeah, if you missed it Friday, I mean the short version is they were trying to figure out how to conduct electricity into cement so they could have self-heating roads that melted off the ice. And they figured out that the magnetite they were using made the concrete into Faraday cages. And so now they can use, they can build concrete rooms that keep out emissions and there's even a spray-on concrete version of it. That's neat. Yeah, good stuff. Thank you, engineer Alex for that. And thank you Veronica Belmont for being here, as always. Of course, anytime, any Monday, I mean. SwordandLaser.com with myself and Veronica is a science fiction and fantasy book club. You can join and read along with us. We're having a good time with that. We've got a new episode coming out this week. Anything else coming up? No, happy Thanksgiving to everybody in the States. Happy Thanksgiving. I know in Canada you have it at a different day but here in the States it's gonna be on Thursday. That's a good programming note actually. No daily tech news show on Thursday or Friday but there will be daily tech headlines. So I'm going to experiment because a bunch of you during Veterans Day said, well, why didn't you just put headlines in the daily tech news show feed? And I said, well, we got so many people subscribed to both. I thought that would be repetitive. So I'm gonna try putting the headlines in, see how many of you complain that it's repetitive because you're subscribed to both. And then that's our little bit of A-B testing. We'll see how it goes. Big thanks to everybody who supports the show and make it possible. It's one of the things I'll be thankful for this year. Patreon.com slash DTNS is our main source of funding. Welcome to all our new patrons including Scott, Robert Harris, Sean O'Connell. And big thanks to people who raised their pledge recently like Piotr Guttaker and Ben Slater. You guys are awesome. Thank you so much for your help. Anybody could support the show in any way they feel they can at dailytechnewshow.com slash support. As I said, we're starting to record our holiday episodes and one of those will be a best of. So if you have a moment from the year that you think that was a great segment, that was a great description, that was a great discussion, go to bit.ly slash best of DTNS and submit it there. So Roger can put it together at the end of the year with our best of show. Our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. We're live Monday through Friday, 4.30 p.m. Eastern at alphagiqueradio.com and diamondclub.tv. And our website is dailytechnewshow.com. Back tomorrow with Patrick Beja. Talk to you then. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program. All right, good show. What should we call it? How do you spell that? Gone in Instagram. Oh, that's clever, Darpar Deemer. That's clever. Gone in Instagram. I'm sorry, Dave. I can't grill that. That's good too. Well, you guys are funny today. No progress bar on my toast. Thank you, Parfaits Feridio. Router's not Reuters. Gone in. OK, so we go with that. We have at the top gun in an Instagram. I'm sorry, Dave. I can't grill that. Instagon, no progress bar in my toast. I guess that feels a niche. I guess that feels a niche. Router's not Reuters. You just said that. Wireless, routerless. Yeah, you know, I think in terms of the topic, I'm sorry, Dave, I can't grill that. That is probably the best. Oh, they added new functionality, huh? Neat. What new functionality? Oh, I just hadn't seen the freeze while reading or animations at the top. I don't see that. You don't see that? Do I have like a fancier version of showbot.tv than you do? Yeah, I see it. What's up with that? Oh, because I hadn't reloaded the page since last week. Now I see it. Nice. 10 minutes to salmon. That animation is sweet. Apple goes a different route. Oracle's fine dining. It just toasts. It toasts to Silicon Valley. I think I'm sorry, Dave, I can't grill that. All right. Although, can you really grill? Oh, I guess you can. I'm sorry, Dave, I can't grill that. You haven't given me the tools to flip it over. Table flip. I like my toast, Trevor. It's very oven. It's very simple. I don't use a toaster oven anymore. I just use the oven oven, which I know is probably wasteful. For toast? I use it for toast. Oh, no, I use a toaster for toast. I don't actually ever eat toast, though. Like, I only pull out the toaster when we have guests. I eat toast all the time. You only pull out the toaster when you have guests? Pretty much, yeah. We never make toast. He puts it back in the box when he's done. Yeah, it's down underneath the cabinet. And when people like, do you have toast? I make toast pretty regularly. I make toast with cheese and beef and tomatoes. Oh, that sounds good. Well, not with the less. We I do not own a loaf of bread. You don't? No. Oh, that's right. You're a hemophiliac, which is a person who bleeds. Yes, I know. Nor am I a celiac. Thank you. I couldn't remember it. I am not gluten intolerant either. So you just don't own any bread. We just don't eat bread. We have crackers. We have rice. Rice. Well, rice goes without saying, Tom. We don't even really make rice very often, though. I only make it when we order in and I don't want to pay. I have some Scandinavian crisp bread. Like a rye. Actually, that's not true. Like, LA doesn't allow bread. It's just different types of bread. I like flat bread. Like, actually, the only bread I'll eat now is Dave's killer bread. I like Dave's killer bread. Yeah, I like Dave's killer bread. I didn't realize homicidal grain could be so good. I did not know the backstory, a fascinating backstory. Yeah, he writes it on the bag. Yeah, I know. I had to, like, one day I was sitting in my kitchen reading the bag and I was like, oh, oh, I thought it was some sort of kind of a redemption for it is a redemption story killing a bunch of people with his loaf of bread. But really, it's just killer as in good and not killer as I killed people. Although he was close to go to jail, though. He could he went to jail because he almost killed someone. But no, he did not actually go through with the active. I feel like it's a bit of like, like morbid humor in the title of the bread, for sure. Can you say I'll forget the name? I'll just call it Ron Ron. So wait a minute. Was he guilty of involuntary manslaughter? Something like that. Are you reading the story on the internet? No, I'm not. But are you reading the story on the loaf of bread you don't have? No, I'm also not. It feels like it feels like a Netflix documentary waiting to happen. Yeah, making of a baker. All I remember is that he went he was in jail. Dave, Dave was in jail and he got out and he got a job. And now I'm just like forgetting. And let me go to his. It is a redemption story. It is the bread saved the bread. Well, the bread thing is part of his family's business. And he. Look at his today's color, red company, milestones. Where's your story, dude? Welcome back about us. Second chances. Oh, maybe this is it. That sounds like it might be it. Dave Cole, founder. Oh, no, this is just a pledge to help people. All right, I got to go, guys. All right. Yeah. I'll see you later. Bye. Have a good time. Ah, yes. So he. So what? He poisoned someone with his bread? No, no, he basically got into a lot of trouble as a kid and got hooked on drugs and was dealing and he just basically did a lot of. Beanie, theft, stronger robbery and stuff. So it's red bread redemption, says not. Yeah, but his his it's like a family recipe that like his family was in already bakers and his brother, his brother took over the business and I guess his brother took him in, you know, to help put him on the right track. It's really interesting. It's I is it a Bay Area thing? Because I'm not familiar with it, to be honest. I also thought this guy was like from the Northwest, Pacific Northwest. Where do you find it? Dave's killer bread dot com thing. I buy it at Costco. And they sell it at Safeway here, but Milwaukee, Milwaukee, Oregon, sorry. Yeah, it's an Oregon thing. OK, makes sense. Killing people with grain since 1908. Wow. No. It's really good bread. It's actually I never thought I would say this, but like compared to the other stuff you get to supermarket that all that tastes just like paper shavings. This actually tastes like real good bread. Well, we don't we don't ever buy the paper shaving stuff either. So I don't know. I don't think they have Dave's killer bread. I'll have to look next time I go. I mean, because we don't go to Costco. We go to rock here. Here's here. I'll I'll send you this so you can read up on it. The modern farmer in 1955, Jim Dahl, a Navy veteran and seventh day Adventist opened Midway Bakery in Portland, Oregon. He served donuts. This is done in a comic book style presentation. The 60s, Jim began to began to focus on organic breads and created a sprouted wheat loaf. He named. Oh, yeah, it's all it's like a like a comic book. Well, I mean, a comic book, like the art. Dave hated working at the baker with his dad, so he fought with his father all the time. Start smoking cigarettes, a gateway to a juvenile miscreant behavior and getting high in his teens. No, this memoir he wrote, the strongest memories I have for my childhood were those of contemplating suicide. He bid a bunch of things, including getting into meth, broke into a house and was arrested in 87. Basically, it was a. Well, by this time, hopes of helping his brother, Glenn Dave, got a job at the bakery in 1989. But by this time, Dave was carrying a sawed-off shotgun under a trench coat and kept meth hidden under the hood of his car. Like he just got into a bad way until he had brought him in prison. But the he got diagnosed as bipolar and I mean, it's there's a lot of a lot of that where people are not either diagnosed or caught with bipolar disorder. Nick with a C says this is all written on the bread packaging. I don't know. Is that all is this all usually on the bread? Because we're reading it on the modern farmer. I think there's a website link on the bread. That that's. But they don't try to pack all this in on the big. They give like a short summary of basically he had, you know, he fell off the he fell off the rails and came. It's really good bread. I I don't often like like most food products for me all taste the same, like, especially when it comes to staples like like sriracha and bread. Usually tastes the same to you. Yeah, you know, sriracha is not the tastiest hot sauce, but it's good, you know. OK, all right. It's like mayo, like I'm sure they're really fru fru varieties of mayo, but best foods is fine enough for me. Dark horse comics. Hmm, interesting. Milwaukee, Oregon. But you're so what you're saying is this this bread tastes really good. Yeah, it's really good, which people in Europe would be like, oh, so you have one loaf of bread that tastes good. Well, I would say it's one of the most mass produced bread that tastes good. Right. And I know I'm sure there are plenty of others. The thing is like, like I like it because it's it's just your standard sliced bread. So you can make a sandwich out of it, you know. The only the only thing that does bug me is there's so many seas and stuff because my kid runs around with a half like a little half of slice and show like it's like Johnny Appleseed except their little seeds from the loaf. I see. It's all in the crust. All this. Yes. Yeah. And some of it's inside. I think it's in the loaf bread. That's just good. Some of it is in our hearts and it's here the whole time. That's true. Toast can never be bread again. And you know what? You cannot uncook rice once you cook the rice, it's cooked. You don't you cannot uncook the rice. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yo, I understand what you're saying. You cannot uncook the rice. It's a you can't cook the rice, Tom can uncook it. It's part of the part part of the birds and the bees. Once the rice is cooked, you cannot uncook it. You understand. Not exactly where I thought you were going with that. Yes, I still understand. Yes. How's it coming with the segments? With the good. I have I saw we had a little more in there. We have a few more. I have not looked at the new one since last week. Good. Good. I haven't looked at them or no. I'm glad there's more waiting for you. It's great. And we've had some offers for help, which is good. Yes. I saw one. I saw one. I wasn't sure about if there were more. Yeah, no, I totally, totally appreciate it. I don't eat bread. Let me tell you what. You know what? Bread's great. I see you. It's good. Anyone, anyone who it's like that in rice, like people say rice, don't eat white rice. It's fine. You just eat it when it isn't totally hussed out from from its. Well, the thing about whole grain rice is that you get more out of it. It's not so much that white rice is bad for you. It's not that brown rice is better for you. You just get more nutrients out of it. You can count it as a whole grain. You can't count white rice as a whole grain. So you're getting more, more stuff. It's like eating the peel of an apple, which I think everybody does now, but I remember growing up, there was always a thing about, oh, you should eat the peels. The peels have the vitamins. Yeah, but who like, I can never say the skin off. The only people I knew who cut the skin off were people with braces. Yeah. Well, you kind of have to then. That makes sense. In that case, I just say, why don't you just eat applesauce? Pork chops and applesauce. Christopher Knight on the Brady Bunch. Yes. Johnny Bravo. Was that his rock and roll name? Johnny Bravo. I think so, but that wasn't the pork chops and applesauce thing. That's, you know, that's when he was trying to become an actor. Yeah. And then there's the goofball one where they became the silver platters. Keep on. Keep on. Keep on. All right. We have now published the show. Thank you all for joining us today. Oh, I'll need the, uh, the paste bin. If you have it. Beatmaster. Beatmaster has delivered the paste bin. I will pass it along to you. And then we will return tomorrow. For another broadcast day. Goodbye.