 Nifaksitawu YFire have a big public transport here and it is a essential service and it's a necessary input for the development processes of a nation Last week we saw what happened when matatuwa kwa banda kwa mwazisha matatuwa, ilia mwazisha matatuwa kwa mwazisha matatuwa kwa matatuwa kwa mwazisha matatuwa kwa mwazisha matatuwa kwa kwa mwazisha matatuwa Now it happened that very day. Now do you think the decision to ban matatus from the CBD was necessary and was it a good idea? Laken? Thank you so much, dan. I think the decision by the country government of Robbie to ban matatus out of the CBD was completely inappropriate because one was not timely. You had to find that the matter wasn't accommodating all us at time frame that was given out. It was inappropriate for me. I think the reason for this is that the County Government had to rethink that decision within 24 hours. Daniel, maik now if you could hold your mic is I think this idea was a good one for that case. Thank you, Hilary, for inviting us after a long time here. Welcome. First of all, let us condone with the families of the people who have lost their lives in the grizzly accident that we've just seen over the media and on the news. But coming back to the discussion, with the gist of this discussion today, I think the decision that was made on 3rd, I think it was on 3rd of this month, it's a decision that I would call more reactionary. The city is an urban center that is an economic nerve, not only in Nairobi or in Kenya, but in East African hub of development. We have Uhuru Highway as one of the main connector roads that is spanning across Africa. So there is a need for Nairobi City County Government to honestly plan on how we have a massive transit in transportation of people who are coming to town. But one of the things that I see is that that decision was made in reverse. I would call, I would want to see pregnant vehicles banned from accessing the CBD because the number of their carriages compared to the public service transport is equally low. And secondly, because most of Kenyans and most of average Kenyans are using public transport. So you saw the decision that was made and how the ripple affected heart even before the governor would rescind his decision. You could actually see from the media or from you yourself you are doing the coverage. You could actually see the ramification of that kind of decision. Very true. Alright, we'll be listening into what the governor said after seeing what happened. But then, do you think Matatu's are the reason as to why we have congestion or traffic rather in the CBD? I wouldn't think in that line. One of the things bringing congestion in the city are actually the private car owners in the city. Because in this country almost everyone on Saka because you find that the number of vehicles in the city as compared to the number of people brings us congestion. So I believe that it is not actually the Matatu sector with proper planning and proper infrastructure on the bus terminus and other sectors. It will ease the congestion in the city and yeah. Having agreed that Matatu's, they don't cause the traffic that we normally see. But then there are these rogue Matatu's that they will drop and pick passengers everywhere. I have personally seen, if you go to Thikarun, these buses from Githurai are reversing on the highway. And then you there, you want to make sure you are not caught into trouble. But then this is something that has been happening. Do you think burning Matatu in the CBD will solve the problem? And if it is the personal vehicles like Orogo you are trying to say, do you think it will also again reduce the traffic in the CBD? I want also to draw your attention. This was coming just a few weeks after the Ministry of Interior in national coordination had actually bring up some measures to control, just to reassure that there needs to be order in the transport department. And you could see actually the measures that were put and the penalties they were given for breaking the rules, including the ones that you just mentioned, having a reverse along a highway, which is dangerous and can cause a number of accidents along that. And so it is my belief that as we speak, some of us who are using public transport actually now see there is an order in which that has been restored as far as we use public transport. But that is not the reassurance that the people who actually follow these laws, we are still having problems along with the road Matatu and the sub cut just recently within this CBD. One of the Nissan would just hit a police vehicle and they celebrate things that were unheard of. You know, you couldn't even dare do that in our time. But right now you can see this happening. So I think while we actually beginning to see one of the things as politicians what we should become really driving forward is that we have to come up with strict policies and laws so far as for both the transport people who are within the transport sector and we are having a number of circles who are operating within the CBD. I'm happy that the government has actually saw it wise right now that instead of dealing with, you know, a circle as a whole sometimes you deal with individual drivers sometimes because not everybody follows these laws. So I am happy that we begin to regulate the government has actually know the importance of partnership and working in collaboration with Matatu Owners Association and other associations that are affiliated towards the public transport. But as far as that is concerned the current governor and the entire Nairobi City County in their campaign had actually pledged that within a number of days and this was just a hundred days within the office they are actually going to organize an alternative, you know, an alternative easy way transport. So that means could we begin to see for example railway, you know, like train, you know, trying to make it easy for people to use alternative than Matatu's and Matatu's and Matatu's so that we could actually begin to ease the modalities upon which we travel in and outside the city. Alright, even in their planning there are proposals, the termina that you will be used from different directions coming to the CBD and then there are people who will be considered and one thing I am not sure how it will work it's for the factor that has been put for the sick people the disabled and the sick, especially here for the sick even in queuing in a bank or any other place we know what happens mothers with children we give them priorities but then it happens you will find someone coming in the same baby in transport it won't happen of the same but then what's the criteria that will be used to know that this person is sick they should use the bus that is affaring people to the CBD On that note I just want to applaud what my brother said about the partnerships between Matatu owners and the county government of Nairobi because one of the sustainable goals number 17 is partnerships I think these people can come into one common understanding and be able to put in place certain policies and even measures on how to curb what is happening just recently In that case, while there was that man there was a serious challenge on peak pocketing a lot of the public passenger said a lot of issues on congestion where they are being dropped to walk all the way from town and you find that these people they are sick people people have their luggage they want to transport it to town selling and find mamas from Nyeri and Central Kenya with their bags of onions and even other things and it becomes a challenge trying to ferry that thing down to town almost three kilometers to town and I think the county government has to come up with something so that at least when there is that issue at least it can be solved people can be there is that movement where people are being taken those who are sick and now the challenge is identifying who is sick because some other person might come and say I am sick so that you can get that free transport to town so I guess it is something that needs a lot of sitting together drafting a lot of things and even collaboration on that partnership you just mentioned free transport will it be free really or it will be a substance I think it should be a fair subsidized thing imagine someone who stays as near as say Masare let me use that place you are coming to the CBD you get to Ungara that is the first term and then you want to get to the CBD you can't work you paid say 50 bob and then you need another 20 bob also to get you to town so it will be 70 and in other places someone getting to the CBD they will pay 70 because Mouturu is near town actually it is town people are not used to the same place anyway in how Daniel do you think having an ambition or having a plan to have maybe some restraints that will come to the CBD or near Lake Realees and this other side would work would it be so ambitious well it is something that each time has now come for us to consider not only Nairobi County but also it is a connector with other counties as well Machakos is nearing us Kiyabu is here and Kajiyadu is here but then if we have that inter-county connection because Hillary you know there are some of us who reside in various counties but work in Nairobi and go back and you see that is why I am thinking that we should actually begin and you see there was this kind of initiative where there is and I think it is still there the train from Imara would actually guys would drive to that side park there and take the train and come I don't know what happened to that initiative I don't know what happened to that initiative I don't know whether there is little parking or I don't know what happened to that but I think it was something that we should actually consider to avoid this kind of traffic snarlabs and this confusion within this city but again like any other initiative somebody would always want to take advantage of the initiative you see even if we talk about coming up people will begin to politicize this in question who is now going to provide the buses the buses somebody would even politicize now we are using national service buses in Kenya we are always poking holes about everything that benefits the citizens so I think there was an idea about Namata issue the Nairobi metropolitan initiative something that actually the national government had collaborated with the county government to make it easy for Nairobians to have an organized public transport in that there was going to be a roll up about the national service buses and you see these are kind of initiatives we I think instead of our MCAs putting paper on each other's eye and fighting in the city hall I think these are issues that they should actually begin to think about instead of looking at how they would want to impeach the governor and the speaker I think for the benefit of Nairobians our MCAs should be thinking to ease in the traffic within how do we begin to even support the governor because the governor is is a little bit reactive making a decision without consultation withdrawing a decision and then calling for a consultation I don't know how that happens with the whole governor but I think it could be important for him to be helped in terms of trying to diagnose the problem that is in Nairobi county and I know that he is trying to do something instead of using his own funds like he said to make Nairobi beautiful I think it could be important for us even to teach him how to do public management and financial benefit so that we have a beautiful city a city that is well governed a city that is organized transport system in a city that you know we all enjoy to be in so that is what I think would help Hillary okay as we wind up our time is running out we started late alright I'm hoping the director will be generous enough now when on Monday what happened people were congesting I'm sure we have people who are problems that is in terms of their health and then you are told you'll be using these overpass like it happened in Ngara and I'm sure so many people bad things happened only that they can't say or if they said it never got to a good number but then if the terminus are there is the security of the pedestrians guaranteed knowing this is Nairobi we know it very well yeah Hillary saying there we know it is Nairobi yeah banking on this is Nairobi in Kenya people always take every opportunity making it an advantage so I think well there was that commotion and such things there is always pickpocketing I mean where people are many congestion and things like that the county government together with the national government can coordinate how security is enhancing this terminus making sure that nothing fishy happens but with the population of like say 5000 at a given time how do you ensure that when we wrap shoulders you don't go with my phone what would be the work of the security officers you see our statistics put it so well that one security officer always in charge of how many people probably a hundred which really you can't money that one police officer but then and this is what we are talking about the effects of an abrupt decision which I think Nairobi no longer sees us to be Nairobi Nairobi becomes Nairobi if we think that it's something that we we thought of kitamboku li kwa nai very organized did you use it? I used these buses there's a generation there's a generation that doesn't know but then we used it from that it was so organized but I think simply because the population was a little bit still low right now the dynamics of Nairobi demands for a very very organized it's a very well planning and we also think that we are still having the plans that we have since independence we have never revised our urban policy to that time and this is the problem that we are finding ourselves as a city look here the Nairobi governor or anybody who is watching this should turn the governor right now that we no longer sees us to just be called a city we have become an economic hub for East and Central Africa Nairobi has become one of the most technological hub in the East and Central Africa if we are still banking on our planning for independence and it has now changed our security system security is the work of the national government but then the county has got the county as carries to compliment what the national government does but this depends on how then do we look at our own county policies what do we have in so far as benefiting the citizens is confirmed in public transport but as we are trying really to wind up on this one of the things that I keep on saying we can't keep on talking without documentation where was this thing documented that we need to refer Philip Kisya did something so wonderful in this city they let Gakuwo did something so wonderful in this I don't know how I remember Gakuwo but I think by that time we were struggling with some challenges but something was walking out something was going on by then our own president was the minister of makul government when he tried to come up with these measures to ease in the traffic Makadera MP by that time who was he the current governor right now ran to court blocked the initiative Kidero tried the same thing who was the senator by that time right now the governor himself has actually made sure that he is trying to come up with policies somebody has gone to court the senator went to court he is now the senator so this is why I am saying plainly speaking Nariobians need to actually have a very open public participation process how then do we live in a city and enjoy the city in the sun as we are known we begin to rebrand ourselves as a capital city as a half eastern central Africa instead of lamenting every time what is our the governor cannot say in the process of a senate but we are trying to make people exercise come on some people exercise each and every day what do we give an explanation to people who are sick what do you give an explanation to grandmama who cannot walk what do you give an explanation to our mothers who are depending on this fresh produce coming from tika to access muduwa so that we buy it come on guys these guys some of these things don't know how to express it alright your points are hard my director is pressing me up to finish up he is telling me Saturday he knows that we have a show that is coming up next we have Waimashiriki and from the other side of the studio I see DJ Tieska I don't know Tieska you can hear me he is well he is preparing for the show and I'm hoping things will be better my name is Dereva Hillary many thanks for keeping us company we have been my guest Le Kenolindeti he is a political aspirant and Daniel Orogo political analyst thank you so much gentlemen for coming have a good night enjoy your week and stay tuned for Waimashiriki good night