 suggest we get started. 42 participants. That's great. So once again, a very warm welcome to our conference, Sustainable Batteries for Electric Vehicles, European Due Diligence Legislation and EU Trade Policy. This online conference is organised by the Rosa Luxemburg Brothers and we are an international foundation. My name is Manuila Krop. I will be the host of today's conference. I also helped organising it. First of all, a few housekeeping bits of information. We will have our conference until 2.30. First of all, we will have a few panellists. We have contributions from Brussels, from Indonesia, from Argentina and then we will be able to have a discussion. You could either post a star in the chat and then we will pass the floor to you or you can simply ask your question in the chat and we will take it up. Feel free also to chat among yourself. You can exchange interesting links and use the chat for that. So really, the chat is available for everyone to really create and facilitate and exchange. That's the idea of this conference. One important information. We will record the contributions, the presentations, but afterwards, during the discussion, we will stop recording so you can speak freely. So what's the background for today's conference? Why did we meet here today? Of course, it's about climate change, fighting climate change. Of course, we are dealing with the pandemic and people are focusing on economic recovery, but still, climate change is always an important topic. There is a midterm review or report of the UN SEC, which came out in February and it showed that the agreement on reducing climate change will not achieve the 2% limit, not to mention the 1.5%. So that's nothing new. It was also confirmed that the transport sector is the only sector where emissions are still rising and that's a huge problem. That's why we have to this topic, the transport sector in particular and especially the individualised vehicle transport, so personal car use. The European Commission has adopted the Green Deal last year and is also trying to achieve a paradigm shift, a more ecological economy and that's also a huge aspect for us because they really focus on electric cars as something very ecological, but that's not always the case. For example, in European legislation, electric vehicles are considered to be emission-free and they're not. Because, for example, they produce fine particles, etc., so there are other kinds of emissions and of course there are other kinds of CO2 emissions. We have to look at the production situation, for example, and of course, especially the raw material which comes from Latin America and from Indonesia mainly. The European Union has set its goal to achieve 30 million electric vehicles by 2030 and the International Energy Agency assumes that we will have 140 electric vehicles worldwide until that year. So there is a rise in the popularity of electric vehicles and in the European Union some battery production plants are planned. A lot of European countries have also announced that this is the end of the combustion engine era, so that means demand in lithium will increase and nickel will increase and in terms of other materials as well in the European Union. It is assumed that we will have a 60 times higher demand of lithium compared to today, so that's a huge number. And of course we're looking at a global supply chain, a global network in production and that is why we are delighted to be able to welcome our presenters here from all over the world. We welcome Melissa Argento from Argentina, we welcome Isidianto and Pius from Indonesia and we will also be able to hear Helmut Schultz who is a member of the European Parliament here in Brussels. That will allow us to look at the different perspectives here because it's very important that when we have a proposal for a law for Europe from the European Commission and this has to be a just and fair law when it comes to production chains, supply chains, it has to consider the ecological impact, it has to consider all the different components of the production chains, we need to make sure that climate protection isn't undermined, we need to make sure that the needs of local communities are taken into consideration, for example these in Argentina, in Bolivia, Chile, but also in Indonesia for example. How can we take their situation into consideration to make production more human friendly so to speak and how can we make sure that the global south is less dependent on production capacities in the global north, so how can we act there in the global south to create production facilities that are ecological, that are environmentally friendly. The state of Indonesia for example started some initiatives in that respect, so I'm looking forward to hearing more about that. How can we process the material where it is mined? But now we will first of all hear Helmut Scholz. He has been a member of the European Parliament since 2009. He's a member of the left group and he's a trade expert of the left part of the group. He will unfortunately not be able to answer all the questions and comments. We will maybe give you an opportunity to answer directly after his presentation. He will focus on the supply chain and also the Mercosur agreement and the problems that come along with it. He will comment on the European trade policy in general and also on the reform of the WTO. So that's a lot and it's basically impossible to deal with all that within ten minutes, but we'll give it a try anyway. We'll have to all keep it short because we're online and we all have to look at a screen and stay focused. Helmut, you have the floor. Thank you, Manuela. Hello from Brussels to everyone here who have joined us here for this very interesting event. I think it's a great opportunity to really come together across continents and have an exchange on this important topic. And I think others from other continents should have probably joined us as well because, well, it will be an important topic in the future and hopefully this will only be the start. It's what we kind of a kickoff meeting for further meetings and exchanges. Well, there's a lack of sustainability in the supply chain for batteries. That's for sure. And in connection with that, we have an increase in demand, not just in industrialized countries, but basically in all countries around the world in all those, at least, who are active in international or economic trade and exchange. And this increased demand is not a coincidence. It's due to the fact that there is a lot of media attention and a lot of attention of civil society on electric vehicles and electric transport, for example. That has to do with our climate emergency situation, of course. So we focus a lot more on ecological aspects on the environment when we talk about production of goods. There was a study, Limits of Growth, which was published in 1972, so already 50 years ago, by the Club of Rome. And already in that study, we can see that the debate is necessary and had started a long time ago. So there is a huge demand, but what does it mean for Argentina or Indonesia? What does it mean if the water level will increase by three or five or 50 centimeters? We are all witnessing global warming and what that means for the Arctic, for example. I also saw pictures taken by the NASA, which showed that potentially even the coastlines of my home country, Germany, are threatened. So we really need an enormous effort to minimize this climate disaster while we are still able to do so. And large multinational enterprises, car producers, the automotive industry have denied climate change for the last 50 years. And as a result, our efforts today have to be even bigger. There is a capitalist logic behind the current investment or the commitment to fighting climate change, because climate change will come at a cost. For example, losses when it comes to urban or agricultural infrastructure make a huge impact. And that is why banks or insurances also change their thinking now. Of course, they are still driven by capitalism, but at least that means that they are reconsidering financing climate-threatening activities. We have a green deal proposed by the EU or adopted by the EU. We also have a similar initiative in China, in the U.S., in South Africa, which means that ecological transformation is meant to be implemented without really changing our way of consumption, for example. How is that supposed to work is what I would like to know, because we are still depleting resources and raw materials with the kind of colonial approach. And the industrialized nations still demand access to raw materials in other parts of the world. The EU, China, U.S., South Korea are really in a race and competition when it comes to that kind of access. And at the moment, the EU commission is taking the government of Indonesia to trial in the framework of the WTO because they stopped raw material exports, exports of ore a few years ago, because they wanted these materials to stay in Indonesia, to be able to process them there, to promote the processing industry in Indonesia. So people have become aware that the country, a country such as Indonesia, will not play a role if they only are a supplier of raw materials. So I think it's legitimate if a country like Indonesia makes it harder to export raw materials from their country. And that is an approach that is followed in other countries in Latin America and Africa as well. And European negotiators so far have always said there should not be any export duties when it comes to these materials. And at the moment, negotiations are taking place between the EU and Chile. And one major topic there is once again the access to lithium resources. How can that access be granted and organized? Here, the European Commission wants to achieve collaboration, even though the constitutional assembly in Chile doesn't want to do so. So the commission really wants to ratify the Mercosur agreement to finalize it as far as possible in order to continue their neoliberal approach and to make sure that the European importers and exporters will have a better position. And their argument is Chinese competition, they say. We can't afford to wait for democratic processes to end because the Chinese will overtake us and they will already receive their access. And that's one of the central problems here. In many countries of the European Union, there are some national laws that are being discussed or even have been adopted. And on the European Union, hopefully, there will be a different approach in the future as well. So we are waiting on a due diligence legislation from a European level because that could help us to mitigate the problems connected to that supply chain. Because then we would be able to really focus on the social and access-related aspects of the supply chain. So we need that kind of due diligence legislation. We need an initiative on the European level so that we make sure that we don't just focus on trade interests or our own profit or the corporate profit, but that we also take other aspects into account. The environment, creation of jobs, human rights and so on. They should have an equal part in a new legislation on the EU level and also on WTO level. I think we are kind of witnessing a gold-digging era here when it comes to these raw materials, for example, regarding the components for windparks. Manuela also mentioned the EU-Mercasur agreement, which is certainly not helping the supplying countries because the EU will have easier access to Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, potentially. And that's basically the only benefit of that agreement. And if there are no changes in the framework conditions for such an agreement or within which the agreement will be implemented, so if there is no sustainability chapter in such an agreement, we can see what happens. Colombia is an example. There was a free-trade agreement with the EU, and that means that there is now a complete depletion of the ore mines there, which obviously goes to the detriment of the environment, of human rights and of social aspects. So we really need to rethink the situation drastically when we want to achieve the 17 sustainability goals of the European Union, because after all, the European governments have adopted these goals, and they pledge to achieve them by 2030. That kind of rethinking means that the Europeans, however, cannot just achieve their goals to the burden of other nations. We need to make sure that everyone collaborates in that step and everyone benefits from this transition. It shows us that we are really living in a situation of global dependency here. We will only be able to move on, to move forward if we integrate and include everyone. The EU makes up four or five percent of the world's population, and we are now going through a pandemic. We are making a lot of efforts to limit the consequences of that pandemic, and that shows us yet again how important it is to think globally and to get everyone, get every country on board. And in some respect, we have found a common answer when it comes to fighting the pandemic, and hopefully that will teach us something when it comes to fighting the environmental and social aspects of raw material mining. I'm looking forward to this conference, and I hope to learn something from it. I'm very much looking forward to hear about the trade union situation in Indonesia. I would like to hear how you would like Nicol M. organized so that you can participate in it as well. I would like to know how Indonesia is dealing with the financial crisis and how, within that financial crisis, the country could find solutions where the population could participate in the profits from mining, and how this kind of mining could take ecological aspects into consideration. Another question would be whether there are possibilities for cooperating with Europe when it comes to re-naturalizing coal mines, where we have an experience in Europe. So could we help there? Could we provide some support in restructuring former mining areas? Those are all the topics that I'm very curious to hear more about. And two final remarks, if I may, I think we all agree that around the world, poor and have a lot of unmet needs. And the United Nations say that we have to overcome this poverty, that we have to have access to dignified life, to medical care, etc. So if we talk about a better standard of living, it can't be the Europeans only who take the decision. We are a totally different society. We are over-saturated, but the majority of the population worldwide has a lot of needs that are not met. And we have to really create that kind of inclusive growth, or potentially degrowth in order to remedy that situation. And secondly, if we want to electrify the entire planet, I personally, of the opinion that that's not possible, at least not on the basis of the resources right now. So we have to reconsider e-mobility. What does it mean when it comes to mining, when it comes to raw materials, and the use of batteries? How can we adapt that to a future situation where we have less resources available? And that brings me to the question whether lithium and the mining of other ores or metal makes it available to find new energy resources. And we have very critical debates in Germany about nuclear power, for example, also in the European Parliament. We said we don't want nuclear energy, which means in Germany, for example, nuclear power is not meant to be an energy provider for our population. So we need to use regenerative energy, renewable energy, but we need to take a closer look at it. Green hydrogen is another thing that is constantly brought up in the moment, and I think that will be a useful approach to fight against global warming. New energy from deserts, solar cells and deserts might be of help as well, could even reduce the poverty in the solar zone, for example. And when looking at the circular economy, for example, we could imagine Indonesia using green hydrogen from Australia, for example. So there are a lot of opportunities, a lot of possibilities, and we need to use them. New partnerships in the debate of ecological and environmental needs and also social needs will have to be taken into account in the future. And that is why I would like to thank Oso Luxemburg for the initiative once again to have organized this meeting, because this can be a first step and two-star. And I'm very grateful for it, because we in the European Parliament... Thank you, Helmut. Thank you for mentioning the term of inclusive growth and building a bridge to the participatory aspect of local communities, and then also creating a link between an image, the male or the female, so I would like to see that you raised your hand, but let's wait, because you are going to get the floor just in a little while, and we're going to have a discussion, but we are going to continue with Melissa Argento now. She works at the University of Buenos Aires, Argentina, and Chile and Bolivia are the main countries provide for lithium-ion batteries, and Melissa has been busy for years in terms of lithium extraction, strategic arguments between global powers, and the framework of energy turnaround. And Melissa is going to talk about the context in Argentina, Chile and Bolivia. Also, she's going to mention the role of German capital there on how transnational structures have to be changed on the spot, and what the local aspects are of changing over to battery electric cars. Good morning, everyone. It's a pleasure to participate in this interesting panel with colleagues from all over the world. More specifically, I would like to thank the Rosa Luxembourg Foundation, and obviously Rosa, who has helped me. I would like to underline that when we talk about lithium mining, we are talking about the salt spaces in the northwest of Argentina and the north of Chile. This territory called the lithium triangle. It's a region where live several communities and populations who live from tourism, cattle, and recently from mining. But they were selling salt for decades. A set of these populations and communities have been denouncing the environmental act due to the lack of sustainability of lithium mining. We are talking about rights breach, the lack of information and consultation, also drought or the risk of drought due to the usage of water in the mining. They can use 900,000 litres of salt water and also sweet water. Amongst the negative impacts or the risks, we can talk about hydric stress. In these salt areas, it's a very concrete risk. And many of them are regulating the level of water in the region. To answer the question, my team, Grupo de Studios Geopolítica en Bienes Comunes, we've been analysing for the last 10 years lithium. And we can say that the pressure of this ore for the automation market, together with the demand from microelectronic components, has led to a fever for lithium, which has been completely deregulated. As we know for 2021, the demand of lithium will increase 41 times if the provisions are right. Obviously, the European Union and other countries will fight for the access to the ore and also the control of patents and knowledge, related to the extraction, but also to the market. In Argentina, the legislation allows its exportation without almost added value. It leaves at 3% of irrigations to the population. There's a lot of costs related to that. And the national state, Argentina, has very little tools for monitoring and regulating the activity because the resources and the competences are from the provinces. There is a very strong pressure from the international powers to guarantee access to this primary ore. And therefore, there is an extraction and pressure. And we can see it with the increase of projects that we've seen in the salt flats and salt marshes in the last five or seven years. In Argentina, even if there are only two active extraction projects of lithium in salt flats or chari and in the salt marshes of Hombremuerto, the majority of the salt marshes in the region have been limited. There are different phases, obviously. And we can see that there are mining people or to my own shown companies from Australia, Canada, Chinese, French. And this means that because of the launch of these projects, we would multiply exponentially the extraction of this ore, the usage of water and the impacts are not duly studied. There aren't any whole studies of the waters and the aquifer basin. There are different levels and the cycles are very slow. And at the same time, and due to the height and it's a very delicate ecosystem, other environmental impacts are due to the waste generation that are next to the salt marshes and the cost of recycling and also the cost of the mine in itself. And this is similar to other mining activities. And together with the information from several studies to produce 25,000 tons of carbon lithium, we would use 481,000 hectares. And there are mountains of small particles that are in the salt marshes. And that has an impact in the cattle, but there are no studies. There would be 72 million square meters of these, this waste. So there are real impacts due to this lithium extract. And we have to make the difference with the environmental impact, even though it's related. Firstly, the risks of draws of the rivers and the supply of water to the population. And also there are movements in the basins. And this possibility has been included in several scientific reports. The special speaker for the indigenous people. And this will make disappear some populations from some areas and will put at risk some biodiversity. So the use of water for the lithium mining is in competition with the population living there. Many of these communities said water is more important than lithium. And this to confront the companies who are promoting the substitution of a fossil automation by electric automation. But these agendas and agreements do not question the asymmetric logics and unequal logics that are behind these resources of lithium and others. And the consumption logics are not studied with the role of the individual transport, for example. So the Latin American territory suffered from this extraction. The processing takes place outside. It leaves the water basins empty. And those who promote the local development and economic profits for the population have to face fragmentation in the population. And there are conflicts because we talk about populations that are far away from the big cities with scarcity in services and social rights. So there is quite a division before mining. So these are some of the social environmental impacts due to the lithium extract. And this makes us think that the transformation in the lithium mining should be multiple. We have to guarantee that the local legislation is respected, reinforce such legislation to implement the consultation, the indigenous rights that is included in international conventions, as we know, to radically transform the legislation, the mining lithium legislation that goes against the population. And we need more autonomy from the corporation interests in the provinces. We have to implement autonomous territorial processes which are not conditioned by the need of employment. We need also to implement an international policy encouraging the creation of value in the origin country. Also to take advantage of the solid research in Argentina, the researchers that have been carried out by several teams, and obviously to include more the local communities. What we observe regarding the Mercosur agreement, the impact of this trade agreement in the Argentinian mining industry will put more pressure in this mining industry. There will be a lower degree of purity in the battery or lithium in solution. And this is another way of going down in the value chain to deepen in the deindustrialization process. The importation of cars and we see that the triangle of lithium, the area of the triangle of lithium will be more polluted. Now to conclude the trade policies that we need to support in the fight against climate change. What Helmut has said previously was extremely interesting. I think that the pandemic allows us to study the relocalization processes for the value chain. This means a de-concentration of the is in the business area and in the mining and the re-articulation of the production chains that have been disintegrated due to the neoliberalism progress. I'm concluding. Yes, thank you very much for understanding and thank you for mentioning local production conditions and also the effects on local communities and that we need a local value creation and local the added value. And now let's continue with another very important region, Indonesia. Also in the context of lithium ion batteries, we have two speakers from Indonesia. We'll start with Piyos Ginting. Piyos works for AEER, an organization called ecological action and people investigation. He is a co-author for two publications that Rosa Luxemburg Foundation has published on the topic of nickel mining and battery protection in Indonesia. I have already posted the link to that publication in the chat and he's going to talk about extraction conditions in the country and we'll talk about ways to improve and he's got a presentation. Piyos, please. Thank you, Manuela. And thank you to Rosa Luxemburg Foundation, who has helped everyone. Thank you everyone. Also thank you to all the speakers who have helped AEER in conducting this study of the impact of nickel in Indonesia. And we have also produced a documentary about the communities that have been impacted by the nickel mining in Indonesia. It was interesting to hear about, to hear the presentation from Helmut stating that Indonesia has the right to develop its industry. Indonesia is not just the supplier of raw materials. This is good because this will make Indonesia has the opportunity to increase its industrial capacity for batteries. But this is not enough. There needs to be improvements. Although the industry will be located in Indonesia, there will be impacts that will be created, be it environmental or social, which I will explain in my presentation. Can I please go into my presentation to page two? Indonesia is a nickel center where 25% of the global reserve is located in Indonesia, most specifically in the eastern region of Indonesia. We can see the graph on the top right hand corner. Indonesia is number one followed by Australia. If the world exploits nickel for batteries, then the impact for Indonesia would be quite significant. And nickel in Indonesia is centralized in three locations. And they are in Sulawesi, in Halmahara, and another one in Obi Island. And these are located in the eastern region of Indonesia. And if you want to produce batteries, it will create a product called tailing, tailing slurry that dumps waste into the sea. And this is the coral triangle initiative region with the highest marine biodiversity in the world, in Morawali, Obi, and Weda in Halmahara. This is where the nickel mining are located in Indonesia and where the tailings may cause harm to the environment. So there are three issues that we see here. The first one is tailing management and the use of coal for nickel factories and ecological disturbance on the fishermen in Morawali, Obi, and Weda. And this is one of the fishermen in Obi that we showed in our documentary. His name is Mr. Amir with a very simple boat as you can see on the right. He needs to go further to find fish because in his region in Morawali, the region has been impacted by nickel waste. And Mr. Amir used to be a medic fisherman. But since the 1919s, he was advised by the government to stay in one place so that the children in his children could get some education and health services. But since the 1990s, after he decided to stay in Morawali, the village has now become the largest nickel processing plant in Indonesia. And it has impacted their lives, especially when the tailings are piped into the sea around them. And this is the Morawali industrial park. And you can see the Kurisa and Fatuhia villages on the right. And you can see that the seas in Indonesia is usually very clear. But now you can see that it's no longer blue. And it will get worse once people pipe the tailings into the sea. And the fishermen in Kurisa and Fatuhia have experienced a decline in the environment since the establishment of the nickel industry within their area. And this is another region in Weda in Halmahara Island. They also have a nickel factory in nickel for this region used to be a protected forest. So if the nickel production, the global nickel production will be centralized in Indonesia. And if there are no changes in the consumption, then the protected forest in the Weda region will be depleted because they will be mined. And this will cause the indigenous people who are still living a nomadic life such as the Nobelo tribe that still lives in the forest. Not this forest but other forest, but they will be threatened by the nickel mining industry. And this is the lives in Weda. You can see the fishermen on the left. It's a husband and wife team. And they're rowing their simple boat, a very small boat to find fish. And in the background, you can see the chimneys from the coal factory, coal mining plant. And this is from, this is Gama village and people live from agriculture. And also from the sea. And picture in the bottom, you can see it's their bottom. It's a very small boat. And if their seas are polluted because of the tailing, then their economy and their lives will decline. And the second, the use of coal for power plant, both in Morawali where there will be a 2400 megawatt power plant that will be built. And the graph on the top right hand corner is based on the research that we did. And you can see the issues on breathing have increased since 2018. And the most, and because of the, because of the quality of the air and the pollution, there are more and more respiratory diseases. And in the bottom is in Halmahara, respiratory illness have also increased significantly since 2019. What we can improve is to advocate the, do not dispose the tailings into the sea so that the seas will be protected. And if they dump their waste on land, then it can be controlled. It cannot be controlled because of lack of spaces. So the waste should be returned to the mine holes. And that's called that. And the second thing that we can do is to not use coal-fired power plant for the factories, but to use renewable energies. We read in the news that one company from China have said that they would like to develop solar energy and wind energy in Morawali. And we hope that this can happen so that the pollution could be reduced and would provide greater benefits for the people in the surrounding areas. And the third one is protection of the quality of life for the fishermen in Morawali. And to make sure that their lives, livelihood will not decrease because those who can work at the young, those who are aged 20, in their 20s, in their 30s, but once you reach 50s or 60s, they will not be accepted at the nickel industry. So they work as fishermen or farmers, but the problem and, but this means that the sea and the land needs to be of good quality so they can continue their lives. And that is my presentation. And now we will continue more in the discussion. Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you, Pius. And also thank you very much for sticking to the time. It was very interesting to hear how the local production conditions are and the impacts that has on the health of people and on the livelihood of people there for men and fish and women. And last but not least, I am pleased to pass the floor to Ristianto. He's a member of the trade unions in Indonesia. He's a member of Morawali Independent Union. And he's also a co-author of one of the publications of Rosa Luxemburg Foundation on battery production in Indonesia. And I also put the link in the chat here. So Ristianto will now report on the local working conditions, the situation of the employees there, and your demands. You have the floor, Ristianto. Okay. Thank you so much, Manuela, for the opportunity. And thank you so much as well to Rosa Luxemburg, who is making this excellent conference that involves a number of countries. Before hand, I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Ristianto. I am from the Morawali Industrial Union, a member of the Confederation of the Indonesian Union. One of the questions were raised at the start of our conference. Why were we involved in this discussion? We have been involved and we have also participated actively in the research that was conducted by our side in relation to the development of the battery plant in Morawali together with AEER, what has been presented by our dear friend Pius. Morawali is one of the central production of nickel in Indonesia and is one of the referrals for plants that will be the central development of electric vehicles that is based on the Jokowi or the Indonesian president administration. What I can address here at this moment is based on the situation in Morawali and the environmental impact that was mentioned by Pius and the social condition for people who are living in the mining surrounding areas. I'm talking now about the employees side, the workers. The nickel industry is one of the vital industries in the world, most especially with the government program that we have at this time, the global government situation that continues to drive the campaign for the change from cars that uses fossil fuel to electric vehicles. This should be giving an impact as well to the development of the workers. We are working in the companies owned by a Chinese company that cooperates with one of the companies in Indonesia, the company is called Sinhchan. We cannot feel the welfare of the development of the industry. We don't get the direct impact. We have so many problems. What I can say the big problem is about safety, health and occupational health. And when we talk about this in our working condition, the situation is not safe. It's not safe for the workers. And the data that we have in 2019 from January until the month of September, the number of accidents is 1,100 cases. And that is because of fatalities. People have lost their lives and just minor accidents. So the occupational health and safety is a great concern for us. When we give complaints to have a better health and safety conditions in the regions up to the district level and the government level, the government did not respond. Their answer is so normative. Yes, we're going to deal with this, but the improvement up until this time has not been done. And the standard of the quality of work is very low. Very, very low. Can you imagine the people outside of the factory, they have been impacted directly because of the industry itself. But what about us who are working within the factory? We have to absorb and also all types of debris from nearby factories. We have four power plants that uses coal-fired power plant. And we are actually absorbing all this. But when we go back to our houses, we can feel the remains of the coal. And we cannot even try to dry our clothes outside because you will get the ashes that comes from the coal. And the ashes itself goes into our house, within our rented house. Everything goes inside. So based on the standard of the safety itself, our PPE is very low from the masks that we use, our personal protective equipment. We need to have a lot so that the ashes of the coal don't go directly into our lungs. And of course, the impact of these ashes will go directly to our lungs. So on average, the workers who are there, they only work for seven to nine years. That's the maximum. That's the number of people that we have talked to it. Nobody would like to stay there longer than those years. When they leave, they get a number of diseases from lung problems, lung infections, etc. So based on the examination of the annual health examination, there are a lot of people who had hepatitis. So that's a problem. But up until today, the changes from the company side to try and overcome the working condition that is not being made. So we think that this discussion can boost the company side to try to improve the health and occupational condition in our factory. And this is also another problem, food. We are usually given chicken. That's the food that we get, mostly chicken. Sometimes the chicken has a lot of worms. So in terms of the health itself, we are not healthy. Meanwhile, we are asked to work like 24 hours a day. At the start of the pandemic, during the coronavirus pandemic, we had a three shift with three groups. There is an off day, a rest day for two days. During the pandemic, that working condition has changed from three shifts, three groups, working regularly, one week full without any rest days, like what we experience in the past. Therefore, the condition, we are prone to a number of diseases and we are asked to continue to work. We have criticized the situation that the three shift with three groups is not good for our health, for the workers health condition. But the government and the company had their excuse. They say that we are in a pandemic, you cannot recruit people. So the company conducted a system, a working condition, three shifts, three groups. And based on the law of the working condition, you are actually violating this. In one week, you cannot have 40 hours of work. We had worked with more than 40 hours. With more than 40 hours a week. So there is an infringement here, a violation. And then for our salary, for our salary and wages, it's not like what we experience today. We have to work higher in terms of the working hours to get better wage. Meanwhile, for our friends who only work based on the working hours, the wage will be just like that. You can just finish it easily in one month when they receive their wages. You can just finish it on that day as well to fulfill the last one month that he worked. So that the accounts, the savings, when they don't work in the company, they don't have it. They don't have any savings whatsoever for housing. It's not also what is happening on the field. They give us 200,000 for housing. And if you rent a room within the industrial area, it's from 800,000 to 2 million Rupiah, 800,000 Rupiah to 2 million Rupiah. So if you want to find a decent place, it's about 1 million to 2 million Rupiah. They only give us 200,000. So our friends who are working, we are like, we are being forced to work. We have no choice. If we don't work, we need the work. If we work while we are working in a condition that is so dangerous, we can have accidents. And the number of unemployment in Indonesia is so big and the government continues to voice about job creation and providing jobs to the people. But from the opportunity that we get, people don't get the same situation, especially for those who are accepted to work, especially the local people who are very limited because of their education. And it's impossible for them to compete with the workers from outside of the local areas, like the Chinese workers, for example. There are a lot of discrimination within our factory. For the Indonesian workers, the Indonesian workers, because they ask for a leave, it's so difficult. The requirements are too long, too many. The company says, there is a pandemic. We cannot accept a new employee to enter our factory. But every day, we see a lot of Chinese workers coming in into Indonesia. The government said that they come to Indonesia because they're sterile from the virus of Corona. But what about us? We are asked to conduct social distancing, but it's not happening in our factory in our working condition. This is just an excuse. The pandemic is an excuse. So actually, the development of a lithium factory in Morawali should give a big impact towards the people in the surrounding areas and the workers. So we hope Rosa Luxemburg and our other friends would be able to ask our government to improve the welfare of the Indonesian workers in Indonesia because we are aware that our struggle will not be big if it is not going to be supported from organizations from abroad. For the time being, I think this is what I can deliver at this time. We will try to develop this more in the discussion that we will conduct soon. Thank you so much, Manuela. Thank you, Christian, for this very vivid description of the working conditions, which are completely unacceptable. And it's good that we're talking about this here. And as you said, it's important to exert pressure on companies and the government. Thank you.