 Okay. Okay, it's recording now. Right, thank you. Welcome everyone this is the Google Summer of Code office hours you should see a copy of the notes on my screen. Alyssa can you confirm. Okay, great. All right, so thanks everyone for being here. What questions or topics do you want to bring let me offer a few to start with. What about the projects. That have been with the ideas that have been withdrawn, right, because there's probably some question why were they withdrawn, etc. Okay. What other questions do you have, and you should feel free to unmute yourself and state your question or you can type your question in chat. Yeah, we know there it is good. Okay, well so then, since I didn't hear any, I haven't heard or seen any hints of of questions I'm going to attempt to answer the what about the ideas that have been withdrawn from the project. So let's go to community dot Jenkins that I'll look at the at the message from John Mark. And that way we get, get a hint as we can read through it and be sure. Oh, let's see GSOC right. It should be in my latest list why isn't it. Okay, I know it was posted here. Is it been that of that. JMM about withdrawn. Oh, I don't see it. Help me out here Alyssa this feels really silly where is the posting. Sorry, trying to find the mute button. I don't see either mark but maybe we can use the poll request. Okay, yeah, that's, let's do that. Good idea. Okay, so let's look at at the poll request to Jenkins.io. And here we go. Okay. See, Chris and harsh just put in the link in the chat window for perfect. Thank you. Thank you very much. Perfect. Thank you. Good. Alright, that's it. Okay, so three project ideas have been withdrawn. We wanted to do this now. So that you still had time if you were submitting to one of these project ideas to submit a different, a different proposal. Due date for the closing date for the submissions from you as potential contributors is April four. So we've got about two weeks still before that so you can revise. Now, question might be hey why were they withdrawn. Well, in each case it's because we don't have a lead mentor that we feel could run that project, the way we want the project to be run. So the exponential back off and jitter for agent reconnections, bozzles had to step back. I'm bozzles manager and I've made a choice to have him step back from this and and work works work something other than Google Summer of code. So we didn't have a lead mentor in health scores. We didn't have a lead mentor even proposed initially, and we need a lead mentor for you as a contributor to be successful. Likewise for the Jenkins configuration as code drift detector. We need a lead mentor there and the idea had been proposed by John Mark, but we feel like it would not be healthy for the project for him as the lead org admin to also be a lead mentor. There's too much for one person to do with all the work that he has to do as the org admin as the lead org admin. Any questions on those on those three withdrawals. Okay, great. So now what about what about the, what about other project ideas and how are they going. So we've got over 20 proposals that we're tracking in our tracking sheet and special thanks to Chris Stern, Chris if I recall correctly I think I've seen that you've reviewed every one of them or almost all of them. And others of us are reviewing them in addition. So I've reviewed three or four and we've got other reviewers as well. Chris was there anything you wanted to give guidance on based on your reviews. I think it's like, I didn't see like very clear patterns of something repeating during my reviews. So, could you could you say that again Chris it was you didn't see very clear plans patterns. Oh, okay. All right. I didn't notice like that poses the kind of long edge this year. And I assume that's a good thing. Yeah, in a way, yeah, more detailed. Very good. So what what I found was in my reviews there was there were times when times when details were were incorrect or imperfect. And that's expected. Right. That's why we do the reviews and I give review comments. And correct those things. So in terms of, let's see, and if I remember right Chris the, the sheet that shows draft proposals and proposal tracking is not publicly readable is it. Oh no it is publicly readable that two of them, two versions. Okay. Would you be okay if I showed the public one on screen to give people an indication of which, which things have been reviewed in which haven't or is that that's still too sensitive information. I think that should be okay. Which one you have because like the one with the check boxes we can show. Yeah, so that's this one is publicly visible to anyone with the link. Yep. And so you're okay if I show that one this way we can look at how we're doing. Yep. Sure. Yeah. Okay, great. So this is this is really a great outcome right what we see is 26 proposals that are getting reviews and reviews from a number of different reviewers. Thanks to John Mark, a special thanks to Chris Stern. You see dirage has reviewed several I've reviewed several. So we've got more to review and hope to continue that review process through at least the end of this week. Now, did, did any of the potential contributors have concerns of a general nature that we should flag here, or we'll just can if not we'll just continue our reviews and let you respond to our comments on in your specific document. I see John Marcus joined. Oh good welcome John Mark. Hello, so I'm awfully sorry for I tried my best to be here so your mark I will let you continue leading the way and super well and if, if at any time you want to take over john mark you are welcome to do so. So what we were just looking at here was getting a review of those things which we still need to be those those project ideas or project plans proposals that we still need to review and giving note that Chris has reviewed almost all of them. I've reviewed several you reviewed many and we'll continue those reviews. I think through end of this week. I know I've got several more that I want to review that are of interest to me and I'm confident that others have the similar similar pattern. I am sorry to jump in like that. So I want to remind to mentors, but also other people that are part of the community and knowledgeable. It's an important mentoring step here to read the proposals. A lot of work has been done in them and read as many documents as possible and review them. It's a very important step in the learning process. Now I assume that there's no harm and even encouragement that, for instance, if you are submitting an idea for the let's say docker based Jenkins quick start, feel free to read the proposals from others and comment. This is open source open source means open in the sense that you get to see and think about other people's ideas. There is no shame in saying I want to see what they said about this should I incorporate that idea into mine. In the university environment that would get you in serious trouble right that's, that's oh you're cheating, but in the open source world ideas build on each other so don't be shy at reading each others and commenting on them. Hey what do you mean by this what's what about this did you think about that. I need to say that I've seen several good reviews from peers. So from from people that are also submitting proposals so I it was really great to see. But we need more mentor or senior people reading the documents so too many documents are untouched yet. So we've got some of the rows on the sheet that are for projects that we'd have to withdraw so I assume we will we hide those rows or I'm going to move them move them out so this is part of the once I'm being able to catch up some some some air because I've been running like hell. Sorry for that. No, thank you. Thank you very much for being here I wasn't sure you'd be here at all. Thank you. So people behaved on the road. Well, well done very good driving in Belgium worked okay today I like that. We had started John Mark with what about the ideas that have been withdrawn from the project and so we linked to that we looked at the page and discussed that I gave my overview of the three, then Chris has given some additional guidance on project plans are there other things you wanted to guide people on or other things you wanted to say. I'm more so I have a general message here to say probably a repeat of what has been done today. It's, it's not an easy decision to take at all, but we wanted to take it in the open and early enough. People had time to reorganize I know it's short. It's, you need to find a balance between leaving enough time for mentors, additional mentors to join, because this basically the problem we had we were lacking mentors. To give enough time for them to to rejoin in that we built correct teams but on the on the other side, enough advanced notice for people to get reorganized or not get the door slammed on their on their notes so it's not an easy decision to take. The, the reasoning behind the decision was that we're very respectful to the time and effort that contributors have already been done when okay there there is this, but especially when you participate to it we want to give the best chance of success for that and we do not have to say and to withdraw project in the middle because here we have nobody left to have a proper support for the contributors. So, well okay this part of being responsible and being a manager. I stand for that. So, the other thing is, if somebody wants to discuss it and better understand and wants to have a one to one chat with me and have a virtual coffee, or a group, I'm open to that. So, I want to have it face to face because so I can give all the new ones in there because I know it's not a fun experience. So, I'm happy to have that discussion explain how why and especially how you can build on that experience in G sock next G sock in open source, and also in your career so I'm ready to discuss it and share my experience and help you to see clear in in that so it's an open proposition to anybody just send me a mail and and I can organize this is important to me. So, all the people that spends time investment are important to me but also to the organ main team and also to the Jenkins community. This is what I wanted to share be sure so I'm very happy that I came on time and was able to put my ideas back in the correct order. Mark, did we already have a Q&A session on on that or I offered it but I didn't see it. Oh, go ahead. There is one question from Nicole. I say that wrong won't. So, Nicole, you might want to unmute your mic and clarify this question a little bit because I know that you posted it a few minutes ago, but the question is, won't that make all the proposals almost the same. Okay, I think so I'm going to I'm going to guess guess try to guess what McCool is asking and then we're going to ask john mark about it. So, McCool, I'm going to try to put words in your mouth. I think what McCool is saying is that if new potential contributors review the ideas of others won't the ideas risk all being the same. And so, because they looked at each other's they thought about them. John Mark, how would you respond. It's a very interesting question. And it's, it's the essence of open source. So I like open source very, very much because it looks like nature in nature copies duplicates, but then it's the difference. Okay, it's a competition. This is the negative side of that but it's the plus the extra that you put on it. So first, first advice when you review a peer appears proposal. The first thing you do it, because you want to give to your fellow contributor and say, here, this paragraph, I did not understand what you wanted to say. So you really do it to help your partner and the competition side, you need to put it a little bit aside. Second point is that, yes, you're going to learn other ideas you're going to say, so you can copy these idea. It's part of life. But then what you need to do is build on that or reflect on it and and say, what are you able to say more, better, more inventive, more with new ideas and think and this is what open source is. It's this explosion of idea that are triggered by all these little ideas. So, so I don't know how to convey that. So it's really part of the process. This, this idea. Go ahead, Mark. I'm going to give a very specific example so one of the proposals I reviewed was talking about plugin installation manager tool improvements. Now I'm the lead mentor I'm the potential lead manager mentor for exactly that project, but the project idea described a condition that I had not considered in reviewing it. I therefore now have have taken that concept, and I will not forget that concept that this, this contributor offered whether or not that particular idea is selected, whether or not that particular plan is selected. I have benefited and the Jenkins project has benefited by my knowing. Oh, here's this interesting case that needs to be considered as part of this idea. Why, why, because I got benefit by reading and my benefit also helped the person who's whose content whose plan I was reading and commenting. And I will go one step further than that and put it in delight. When we review and grade the proposals. Don't forget that what we're going to look for is how clearly can you explain and convey your ideas so the communication thread or access. This one is very important. It's a key element in open source. The other element is, did you understand the problem to solve. Do you have a good grip of what we're talking about. So what needs and this is why we encourage you also to put the hands in the engine and start tuning things by doing PRs that you have a practical experience, and we want to see that the computer knows what he's talking about he has a good grip. And then we want also to see he even understood it so well that he starts thinking out of the box and comes with new ideas or new perspectives. And this is where you can cross seed yourself by by the end so whole process that we look for this has nothing to do with grading. And term work at university. I'm sorry to say that way the process is completely different. And this is why it's so important and great for you. It's a great experience to go through through this process. I hope I was able to answer the question I went a little bit overboard. Did that answer your question. Actually, I'm going to speak from a cool again and say it did. Okay. Yes. Thank you. So there's another question. Sorry. Okay, just a little note for Mark and Alyssa. I prefer to skip this, the outreach SIG and stay on this call here to answer and discuss with people if you don't mind. No problem. I'll drop in a little bit and then so that I can hop over to that. Just don't forget to put me as a. Okay, great. So we have another question. So, so John Mark, I wonder if we want to switch screen sharing from me to you, because I may have to drop off at the half hour in seven minutes for other meetings. So Mark, only, I don't have your incredible skills at note taking while I'll happily take notes. I will happily take notes until I have to drop off. So if you want to shift your screen sharing the problem was, I'm not ready to shift my screen to to share my screen that shows my calendar to everybody. I don't want the humiliation of people seeing how bad my calendar looks today. Right. So I'm going to stop sharing my screen. Do that and I'm going to pull up. It is organized. There it is. I see my stop share button. Okay, so I should stop sharing now did I successfully stop sharing. Yes, because I don't see your, your. Okay. I'm happy to take notes, John Mark, I just don't want to hear we're going to leave it that way so I don't see the notes anymore I want to concentrate. I'm going to turn on the questions and be sure. So chat here. I'm completely wasted. There it is. Okay, so we had a question from Satak. What are the best practices which I can follow while communicating with mentors project maintainers and community members in general. Great question and and if we find the answer I can write a book on it so no way we can start so I first answer that way. Best practices. First one. General be respectful. So have empathy to the people you're talking to. And you need to know, especially when talking to mentors, maintainers. These people don't do only that. Then, so they have other duties I have other duties. So we need to squeeze it in between and we have also family life that we need also to keep balance. Be respectful of that so don't expect an immediate answer. Give time if you want to ping again. Do that very, very kindly. Second thing is how am I going to say that. I think I know I remember how I felt in your position. You're not speaking to God's that you're just a little warm and not worthy of speaking to these people. No, they're ordinary people like you that just have more experience in one field where you might have much more experience in another field. So we're all equal. We just have different experiences and other real of experience of experience knowledge and also the years I've been working 40 years to build my experience. So, so don't the message I want to get across there is don't be afraid. And as long as the, the, the question is, is respectful is polite is thought of so the something that kills maintainers or mentors is the, it doesn't work. What should I do. What doesn't work. What did you want to do or or these kind of things. This, this is seen by mentors or project maintainers as a waste of their time, because they need to go through they're not not sure that you tried everything they don't have a clear picture. Yeah, so this is in the in the same what else can I say what this is basically it and once the project continues that we have the, the grading going on or or so we can have this this conversation but the main thing is be empathy. So try to put yourself at the place of the person. No, the time zone know his environment he probably has work, a sick child or something like that so don't expect an answer in the in the next two hours, if it's a middle night. Well I need to shorten because I seek questions. Do you also suggest doing some due diligence on your own first. Yeah. That's a very good point for me it's it's so due diligence in the sense when you ask for help. Make your homework, because something so due diligence so explore read experiment. That's something that drives people crazy in in where they didn't even read the documentation. So I'm exaggerating a little bit there but here yes, yes, and you phrase it 100% to listen. Thank you doing the day the due diligence I call that the homework and show that you've done it and say here now I'm stuck. I need to have somebody that that that health, that health, very good point. Now, I think, yeah, Alyssa, I'm going to reclaim hosting. Well actually, John Mark I've looked at my calendar I'm available. If you'd like me to share my screen again and take notes while you are talking I am happy to do it. That way you can focus on the communication part and I'll focus on the note taking part. Yeah, and I keep an eye on the clock because I get carried away with. Yeah, I do have a hard stop in another 30 minutes but I've got but then I want, then I want to stop because here it will be far too long for. All right so I'm going to share my screen and we're going to look at it you should see my notes do you see my notes. I see them and I'm always impressed by your note note keeping skills. Okay, now need to show my chat. So I captured, I captured the question from Sarthak maini. And I think you've answered that when there was another one there and there's also a question from Jagruti. And I'll capture a few more questions is one from Sophia Toro. Ciao Sophia. Okay. Sorry. Okay. I'll stop there. Here. So I'll walk through the through the list there was a second question from Santa next question most mentors would be having other work as well. What are some of the steps which I can take as a mentee to make it easier. I think we answered that. So first thing is, don't expect an answer be patient. Wait for a couple of days and be do your homework show that you, you, you understand the problem that you, you, you worked on it that you did the due diligence as Alyssa said very well. So I consider that as Sam. I had a question here if there are more than one candidates interested from the same project idea. I want to know how would you consider which contributor will be accepted here. Very legit question so the process is that way. So now we're still in the preparation phase of the of the project idea so of the, the, the, ah, forgot the word, but you're preparing draft. Now the door is open you can start submitting the final one. April fourth is a cut state there everything is frozen. You pulled the hands off the keyboard. Now it's done. And the mentors will start then and will not take in account the work that the review work in advice that has been given before so they use as it is. And we're going we're going to rank or give a note to each of the proposals. The note will be from zero to five zero means empty proposal waste spam. We're one is well five is this is a killer proposal this is a very good candidate. He knows what he's talking about he can explain it clearly, and he has the necessary skills to achieve the goals that he announced every month mentor is going to do independently. This grading. The gradings will then be put together. And this work is done by the organ man's where we'll see patterns per project and we'll see who are the proposals that will bubble up. And so we'll have an idea in what order they are. The third step is that we're going to organize is all things that that you will not see that's between mentors and org admins will have meetings per project and mentoring teams to decide, which is the best candidate. And the best mentoring team that we can be built for that project. This means that at current state we have seven running project ideas, but we have a four senior mentors. And we decided that one lead mentor will for the security of the project will only be able to lead one project idea or one project. He cannot, he cannot split. The lead mentors are shared on two projects, mark for instance, and they did to, and we get good proposal on there. So there we're going to decide overall holistically, what is the best candidates that we have what is the best mentoring team that we can build. That means that we'll have to do choices. So there are many proposals. You're this year, you're, you're very, very numerous. So it's a lot of people it's it's great to see your enthusiasm in there, but I fear. Not all will be chosen. So there will be a decision process and will end up with team and best student or best candidate for that. And then we need to get that approved by Google. So, because we'll go to Google and say, well, okay, this is our plan. These we can do and take the responsibility to bring to successful end. And they will, and they will say, okay, we have money enough and we believe you, you can do this for I will not propose. I'm so we as an organ team because we're working together on that Chris and Alisa and Bruno, but I will make sure that we will only engage in projects that we can do by respect to the people that are proposing projects and also for the mentors, the respect of their time they will invest in there. Long, long reply. I wanted to give enough details how the process is I can understand that it's very fuzzy and is is not not very clear. But here it's a competition. It's a competition. Did that answer your, your question it's continuous scrolling so I need to hurry up and give less details. I'm moving on here there was a question of Sam yell if I didn't answer your question correctly but I think I gave many details. In the light of withdrawn ideas. How can I be the most helpful or help to my peers. This is a great, great question. One thing I don't know if you already had contacts between one thing I don't want anybody being discouraged cheated or depressed. I would feel very bad if you if you're there. These are things that happen. These are sometimes you work on a project and at the last time. Let me tell you a small personal history story very I make it very short. My father became professor in physics and worked for his PhD for five years at the moment where he was going to publish and present his thesis. Somebody published exactly the same subject than him. For five years worth of work were for nothing. And he had to redo everything and start again. So these are the kind of things that happen. So, Jack Ruthie, I think one of the things you can do is help people overcome the disappointment and say we can learn from them. People that are going to reorient themselves will ask publicly because they are learning a new subject with which will be a challenge for them and they will need some guidance here I don't understand that could somebody explain me that or some guidance there. I think it's a fair step to help them to there's a lot of good activity on on Gitter I have a hard time following all the old very good traffic happening there so don't hesitate to help and answer questions. There be cautious sometimes what you think is the correct answer. You might be wrong so do also your your own research so this is the advice so this is on the top of my head. It's a it's a very good question and also a very honest and I this is a very good good thinking for you so I really appreciate where I am lost my thread here. So John Mark, if you're okay all actors your moderator and asked more questions so Sophia asked, I was wondering if I can post my draft proposal in the Gitter channel even if there are some sections I'm still working on I'd like to get review from the sections I already have. Please, please, please, yes. And there was a second part. Thank you for jumping. So the second part was will they review again after I make changes. So two things. So first, a draft, a work in progress is is done to check if the bases are correct so it's an interactive mode to come back to what we do in open source you can create a pull request and set it in draft and say I'm still working on it. And invite other eight have a look to what I already did. So this this is the usual way we work. The second thing is very good point to when you completed your document or you have added another important layer to your document. I want to remind people and say here, I have my second edition of the document, and please have a particularly look to these sections that I added so that it, it pops out to the people that are re re, but the process is is correct. So I answered that question. Mark, should I look in your document for the next one or I'm just going to read you the next question. Thank you. Okay, so when I register for GSOC there's a question I need to answer, quote, Have you ever contributed to open source before. If I choose yes I need to write a reason to explain why it looks like GSOC prefers people who haven't contributed to open source is it correct. Now I need to check the rules but having discussed with the people managing the the program. What is behind this question is, if you have already been acquainted with the ways of open source. It's a very interesting and important point to explain what were your motivations. What did you learn that that helps to estimate what is how are you able. Do you feel with the ways of open source in a way. If you say I never contributed to open source we know okay this is a blank page. So we know that people need to learn and need really to be coached both are interesting. On the other side, showing, showing the way and showing the, the experience of open source to somebody who is completely new to it can be an interesting challenge and is important. On the other side, somebody that has already some experience that knows why it's important what is the driver, how it works. We know that explaining this and coaching for this particular aspect is something that we don't need to deal with. There is a interpretation of that. And what we want to avoid and what Google wants to avoid is that people that have five or 10 years of experience under the belts doing open source and then know everything inside out and just want to do some money with GSOC. I know these we're we don't look so we want really young professionals, young developers from schools or or so. Some of between you have been dealing with open source already since 12 years or very early. So, I hope I didn't confuse everybody with my answer so but the two aspects. So, John Mark, I, I think, go ahead Chris did you want to make a comment. No, okay so John Mark, the, I think, I think the applicant should answer the question to the best of their ability right when Google asked you ever contributed open source before. If, if this is your first experience contributing to open source, you should answer yes I have and this is in the Jenkins project as part of preparing for Google summer of code 2023. Because to say I've never contributed to open source feels feels not accurate here because we hope you're contributing already to open source with at least a few poll requests with at least some interactions that we can use to assess your abilities. If you're not that's that's going to reduce your chance of being accepted we need to see you make contributions so so for me. It may be that you could say Google prefers people who haven't contributed what they're looking for as john mark said is people who are less experienced and significantly less experienced than the seasoned professionals who've been doing open source for a long time. Said, for instance, would not be acceptable as a, as a Google summer of code contributor too much open source experience already. Right. John Mark would not be acceptable as an as a G saw contributor. Yes. Sure. Now I see that a chat is filling in. So we have 25 message to go in quarter of an hour. I get, I get over enthusiastic about that, but it's very near to my heart so and I want to to answer as many questions as we can. What is the next question mark can you help me there. Okay, so our next question I see is. What do you think here I'm going to paste it into the document. And this is from a cool. So, okay. What do you think if my idea is great but I don't have enough experience in the domain. I mean I know Jenkins but there are a few things I still need to learn. So will it be considered what if my ideas a bit fuzzy because of less knowledge what will you think of that. Okay, I need to be honest there. So my general advice rewind. So, we need to choose people that have the best ability to reach the end. And that when don't have to invest as mentors. It's a huge amount of time to get them to level and get them to get them going. So, but it's okay if the the your understanding is fuzzy so my advice there would be try it. But don't be disappointed if you don't make it this year. And the rules are open enough. So if you have a good subject and you're interested in that subject. And you don't make it for that here and this is also a general advice is continue digging continue learning at school at work with your personal research. The best school is to provide updates pull requests, read tests, provide new code, so to be part of it. I restate the the example I gave in December. How do you prepare. It's about building muscle. And how do you build muscle. It's by exercising by learning by that everything starts to be automatic there. It might be that you don't make it to the Olympics with the current level. And well okay it will be disappointed. Don't give up continue learning continue exercising continue exploring. And you will have a much stronger position at the next next time there will be other. A good summary of code with Jenkins, and I definitely hope that it will have more mentors that are ready to to invest their time in there so I think I answered that one mark do you have something to add to that. I, I don't that's great. You're typing and doing three things at the same time you even better. Have a new have a new new question are you ready for the next question. Go ahead. Okay, how can I make my proposal stand out. So I get, I'm the one selected. Does it matter to send my proposal early or should I be late to make a better proposal. So the first thing. The only way to stand out is to have the best proposal. Now it's your responsibility to find the understanding and, and so I cannot give some magic tricks, otherwise I will start giving you sorcery tricks and starting with with a black cockerel and things like that and doing weird things. So no, I voodoo is not my part. So I don't have any advice on that only be the best understand and the criteria is that we're going to use to select the ideas are. And don't try to influence mentors is unfair. The the the thing. Sending proposal early or late. It doesn't make, make a difference at all because we will start reading the proposal and ranking them only at April 4. And we will forget everything that we read before. And before what we're reading right now is just the mentoring phase for us to help you. The most powerful proposal. So bring it early or these tactical questions. Don't play a role in our irrelevant. So that's that's no, you can you can try other tricks like, like, I don't know, throwing salt over your shoulder or these kind of things but doesn't help. So John Mark, there is a there may be a subtlety that may not be immediately obvious to them. I believe in the past anyway, once a proposal was submitted to Google summer of code it was unmodifiable by the submitter. So submission if I risk all correctly is a lockdown of the proposal. So is that still the case that it is a lot. No, as soon as I submit it is locked down I can't modify it. No, they locked the door only at April 4. Okay, so so submitters could submit a proposal, revise it and create a change for the proposal and that's okay this year. It's not the case. Tell me, because this is the way I want to play the game. And I'm going to request Google and I'll delete the proposal to give the chance for the candidates to to review the or to resubmit the proposal. Okay, so just so go ahead. Yeah, sorry, I think we can do that. We can edit the proposal till the deadline. Yes. Okay, so you read it. You resubmitted it. I need to confirm that I forgot, but we can, you know, edit things, but not sure how to. So I'll need to confirm that. Okay, we can try if somebody has a problem with that, please shout, because I want to give the this opportunity to everybody, you can do a mistake. Oh, I submitted the wrong document. Hey, there is this life so so I you need to be able to to resubmit. Point mark. I'm seeing I don't know where you are. Too many things in the chat is probably because I talked too much. Okay, well, so I'm going to keep going. Okay, question now for my mood does contributing to other so open source is contributing to other source counted. So here we go. I'll put it in the. Yeah, okay. Is it counted. Yes, it's it's an indicator of experience. And don't forget to show evidence of that. Now, don't forget we're interested in Jenkins experience in Jenkins that you know what a plugin is. How Jenkins works. This is what we're interested. Now, if you already had the experience of open source participating to another one and you submitted a pull request for communities or these kind of things. Okay, mention it. It's an interesting point. But it's not a decisive one of this correct English. That answered the question. Great. We have five more minutes here. I'm sorry for the questions I'm going to look at them try to answer them in the chat. Otherwise, we can revisit them will be too late. Hey, so we've got a question from Jagruti. So are you okay with one more question. We can take as many I will try to answer short. Okay, so the question is how do I know when is the right time to submit my proposal on the portal and the mentors have completed the reviews. Well, normally. So this is why I set up the dashboard of the draft reviews so that you know who read it and you see that you don't have more comments on on your there's no activity anymore there. So they say okay, nobody else is going to answer that. Now you're the judge. I know it's difficult to judge that but here at a certain point good is good enough if you continue tweaking the document. It's not going to help and you're going to miss the deadline. I think the deadline is April for 1800 UTC. So, so I can't answer to that question. Good question, but I can't. One of the indicators. If you're not seeing mentor reviews it probably hasn't been reviewed. I'm not aware of any mentor who has reviewed a document and given zero comments. That would be quite shocking. So so Jagruti when you, if you don't see review comments. Now if you've received comments and not responded to them, either by resolving them or applying them. That says you're not paying attention to our reviews. So, so on the other side, what could be a good, good practice is you you thought about the comments. So, important thing that I've seen I just do a small side note here answering in the comments will not help improve your document. Answer the question from from the mentor or the reviewer in your document. This is where it has. Back to the to the question is, if you thought of and processed the different comments that were made, well maybe Santa Ping and say here. I included the various comments. Somebody have a last last review of it last and focusing maybe on this part of that part comes to the same question we had earlier about submitting in layers. So, boom, Mark, two minutes left. I have one more question or we've run out of questions as far as I can tell I think we've completed the questions. Oh, okay. Okay, last, last thing I say it again. If people feel bad or have problems with the, the decision we've taken, and I stand for the decision so this decision is not going to be changed. I'm ready to discuss and have a virtual coffee with anyone who would like to. We can discuss it in and see how we can move out of that so the offer is open to anybody. I said that one to one communication with mentors is frowned on because I don't want to give a particular advantage or a non ethical advantage to to competitors. This is a special case is special case and as org admin, although I like to read the proposals. So I can make an exception here. Drash raises and you probably will be the last one to go go ahead Drash. Yes, so this is very quick. I just want to say, I want to add a little bit more on the decision that we have taken. I agree with the decision that has been taken because I totally fully believe that having a lead mentor is extremely crucial because I was contributed to Jenkins last year as a GSOC applicant. And I, I totally understand that they do a lot of planning for you in advance, they prepare the tasks for you throughout the whole coding phase in an increasing order of complexity so that you do not get overburdened at all they take care of your mental health as well. I mean, not to burden you with lots of work. So they take care of everything. So that requires lots of patience planning and careful consideration right so you cannot expect that from a very junior mentor. So that would be a problematic situation for both you as a contributor and the mentor. So this is something that we are trying to avoid with this kind of decision. So that was the main point of view from our end. That's all. Thank you for chiming in or giving your perspective as a mentee. Last year, thank you for, for this, this input so and it's exactly in the same wavelength of what has guided us in the decision. Thank you, Deraj. And happy to have you as co-mentor looking forward. Okay, so we're now at 16 hours UTC so we're around the hour. I thank you very much for your patience for being that many here around the table to ask question and to discuss about that really appreciate that I apologize again for being 10 minutes late in a meeting it was an important meeting and all your work is important. Thanks everybody. Recording should be available later. Thanks. I'm going to end it for now, John Mark. Is that okay? Yes, perfect. Thank you. Bye bye everybody.