 We'll call the meeting to order and state the Pledge of Allegiance. Pledge Allegiance of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. We now have time for public input on non-service adjustment related items. Oh, that's okay. We now have time for public input on non-service adjustment related items. We'll have a time for that after Derek's presentation. Not service adjustment. Everything but service adjustment. Yes. You can state your name and address. Right. My name is Mary Jo Apganors, 3905 South 10th Street. And I am here because of the cuts to the transportation services. That's what we have. Yep, so that's the service adjustment. We'll have time for that. Oh, so you want me to wait? Correct. No, that's okay. No. Sorry. Oh, that's okay. Anyone else public comment except for service adjustment? Thank you. Yep. Okay. Hearing none, we'll move on with the agenda. Item 2.1, approval of the minutes from the August 17th, 2021 meeting. Move to approve. All in. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed, say nay. Minutes passed. Okay. Item 3.1. Yep. So approval of the third quarter, 2021 operating statistics reports. Okay. In your packet, you have the IFC for the third quarter operating reports. Starting with Shorley Metro, ridership was down 7% for the year with revenue up about 57% for the year. COVID and other factors still continue to impact our ridership and our revenue. And just a reminder, like we stated in our last quarter update, CARES Act funds will be used to offset any loss of revenues and potential increases to expenses. For the quarter, revenue trips were 11.46 trips per hour. This is an increase of the third quarter from last year, which was at 8.25 trips per hour. On the Metro connection paratrend, the side ridership for the year is up 9% with revenue up 13%. And again, COVID continues to impact ridership and revenue and revenue trips. We're about the same this past quarter at 2.15 per hour compared to 2.16 last year for the same period. And parking utility numbers, still revenue was unable to be updated due to an employee in the finance department out on leave. So I was not able to give you final statistics on the parking revenue. However, we still have concerns over the meter and permit revenue coming in. And meter revenue has been rebounding nicely from 2020. Revenue in 2021 through the third quarter is estimated to be down by 20%. And that is if I calculate on your report sheet, about $10,000 for the month of September, for stall rentals would take us to about 20% down at this point. So yes, revenue is still a concern and rebounding from the COVID-19 pandemic. Otherwise, no other alarms from us as far as revenue or ridership. Any questions on the report? Motion to approve the reports. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed say nay. Reports approved. Topic 3.2 2021 Community Development Black Grant Agreement. So for your consideration is again, the CDBG agreement for 2021. This is an ongoing grant that we've been awarded annually through the federal HUD program. Again, the amount is for $42,493. The agreement is attached for your consideration. There were some changes in the agreement this year, but nothing that was alarming at this point. So action required or requested is to support and approve of the agreement and further authorize the transit commission chair to sign the agreement and allow the director of transit parking to act as a witness. So moved. This is Chia. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed say nay. Motion approved. Topic 3.3 Communication from Jean Mueller regarding a parking request. So commissioners, I'm asking that this communication get filed. Chia and I actually had a conversation with the principal of Charindy Lutheran this afternoon, and we decided that it was better to schedule an in-person meeting to discuss the parking request with additional personnel. So at this time, we're going to table the communication and we're going to meet with Charindy Lutheran staff early November to talk about parking solutions. If at that point it's necessary to bring it back to the commission, this item may show up on a future agenda then. I moved to file. Second. Any further discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed say nay. Motion approved. Topic 3.4 Service Adjustments for Shoreline Metro. Okay, thank you. I'm going to stand down here so I can look at everybody in case you got questions during. Be sure there is public input after this item. So before we take any action this evening, the action really is to follow the recommended plans and I hope to provide some additional information for you. The commission will consider public comments related to this item after my presentation. So first things first, I want to just bring up several of the facts surrounding our adjustments. I personally, my staff, we all understand the livelihoods are being impacted with this. We're in a very difficult time folks and that's really the part of it right now. We understand there are issues on both sides. We understand customers are facing reduced service. We understand that drivers are having to work along shifts or split shifts. We, you know, and I sympathize with everybody. Very empathetic about this. This has not been easy on me by any point for the last several months. You know, I take these challenges personal. I wasn't hired to run a transit system to cut service. I was hired to create a transit system that could expand service and expand to more customers. Unfortunately, there are factors that are out of our hands at this point and there is no perfect solution. So just starting out, we do not have the current staffing level to continue current services. We face a very limited application for drivers at this point and consideration is that when we do hire drivers, it takes two to three months to simply onboard and train them. In 2022, February to be exact, there are new training requirements coming from the federal government and we are working proactively to continue to be able to train drivers in-house and meet those requirements. So we are facing another challenge early next year if we are not able to become a training site or a training facility, which would force us to further look to train drivers elsewhere and could be a significant distance from our current location. We currently cannot meet driver vacation requests. We are deep in driver vacation requests, especially during the holidays, with a significant concern that if driver requests were denied, especially for those that have appointments or scheduled with family or leaving town, that calling in sick could be an option. We've already arranged knowing that vacations were gonna be denied, that vacations would be paid out at the end of this year. So we already forecasted that this was gonna become a problem. We are not staffed in the event of COVID-19 or if the flu breaks out or anybody gets sick, we're simply working everybody eight plus hours a day right now that we have available to us. So that means if we do have drivers calling in sick, our schedule is gonna bounce around from day to day and we don't want that to happen. We wanna provide predictable service to you. That's the point of coming up with a schedule and trying to free up some of our drivers to provide a predictable schedule for you so that you guys can rely on the fact that there is gonna be transit service provided during these times. The last thing we wanna do is strand anybody out there or give anybody unpredictable service. We have one staff person out on extended leave at this point. Many of our drivers, as I said, are working 40 plus hours and we have four drivers out on extended leave at this point as well. So we are considering options knowing that we have internal staffing issues, not only hiring and retaining, but we also have medical issues as well. So this is actually the third proposal that was put together in service adjustments. Our problem is is I've got a staff of 25 plus drivers on our fixed route service and another current seven on our paratransit service. They're all magnificent drivers. I'm sure every one of you in this room right now can attest to how great they are. Unfortunately, it's not enough for our service. We can't get a consensus on works for everybody. So we put together foregoing vacations as early as this morning. We put together overtime, we put together split schedules. Unfortunately, we can't get a consensus. So at some point in time, we had to put together a schedule that would free up some of our drivers to provide service and cover for vacations and illnesses and things that may be coming down the road. Unfortunately, COVID is still a thing and it's still with us and we have to be very mindful of that. Other trans agencies are facing shortages due to COVID. Our neighbor to the north just had a couple of drivers out. As a matter of fact, we've been blessed and I hope we can continue to stay blessed. We seek solutions or sought solutions. We're trying to do what we can to make the best decisions on behalf of everybody. Unfortunately, at the end of the day, we had to put something together that again would address our labor shortage. So we have a long-term problem here and the forecast isn't looking good. Labor shortage could be impactful over the next year or two. So if we don't have more, if we have more resignations and retirements than hireings, we could be in a world of hurt as a public transit agency. So we have to be prepared and unfortunately this issue hits every sector of the economy right now from restaurants to manufacturing to service. We're all hurting for employees right now and we are unable to fill positions that are critical to maintaining this service. So that's the background for you guys. What I wanna do is just talk about specifically what the service recommendation is at this point. So we have a weekday service schedule that we're gonna mirror between fixed route and our paratransit services. Our services propose to be 5.15 a.m. to 5.45 p.m. And again that would mirror both services. With specifically to our fixed route service, we're proposing a half hour service during the first three and a half hours in the morning, 5.15 to 8.45 a.m. Maintaining our tripper routes, express routes and peak shuttles during that time as well that help us accommodate all the extra school students that ride in the mornings. We would transition over to hourly service from 8.45 to 1.45 with southbound departures at quarter after the hour and northbound departures at quarter to the hour. And then for the last four hours, we would transition back into half hour service, again offering tripper routes, express routes and peak shuttles. We will also employ north and south shuttles at 5.45 as well for our customers. Route 20 will run intermittently throughout the service day and this unfortunately means no evening service after 5.45. Saturday service, 8.45 to 3.45. We will operate one hour service on our fixed route. So again, departures from the transfer station go south at quarter after the hour and north at quarter to the hour. Paratransit service will also operate from 8.45 a.m. to 3.45 p.m. And again, we won't have shuttle service on the fixed route during the one hour service and there'll be north and south shuttles available at 3.45. And that means unfortunately, reduction of about three hours of service on a Saturday. So that is the proposal that is out there. As I've stated to the transit commission and many of the staff that this is a temporary change. It's meant to be in place until we can gather staffing enough to put regular service back on the road. I'm not forecasting that services is gonna return all at once. My goal is to hopefully bring back service incrementally. I know how important half hour service is throughout the service day and I really, really find it hard to be reducing service during that time. But unfortunately again, in order for us to ensure we have staffing across the board, that was one of the changes. So I'm looking forward to bringing that back and bringing some sort of evening service back, whether that's in a non-demand fashion or returning fixed route service. But only time will tell as far as our labor shortage goes until we're able to do that. So as of this point, I've been stating that this is probably at least until January so that we can get through the holidays and be able to accommodate our internal staffing concerns with vacations and time off requests as well as be able to give you guys a timeline as far as how long you can expect these service adjustments to stay in place. Go ahead, Chad. How many drivers do you need to be fully staffed? Well, I'd say at this point, we're looking at at least five or six, but having the ones on our staff right now that are out on medical and three of them being full-time definitely hurts us at this point. And I wanna add that we have brought one person back, that person is not cleared for return yet. We have two others that are gonna be going through pre-employment exams this week and next week. So they're gonna be entering our pool. So I'm hopeful that we can get those out into service. We have one person on staff right now that works limited hours, but as soon as that individual can move up here and be more accessible to service, that he may change. So there's a lot of things that have to play that can come to play here, but ultimately, if we get our combination of our current drivers back and we get some new drivers on board, we can return service. Derek, when was the last time Shoreline Metro reduced services and what's the implication and what's the impact of when you reduce services and you try to implement it back that you gain that service back fully with ridership? I can tell you, well, COVID was the last time that we reduced service. So- Okay, before COVID. All right, before COVID, 2016, we removed what was known as Route 30 from service at that point in time. We made adjustments to all of our southbound routes to accommodate the loss of Route 30. We also made some adjustments, excuse me, to Route 20, which goes to Kohler and Sheboygan Falls. It really wasn't much of a service cut in the hindsight other than that we reduced overall service to deer trace. I would have to defer before my time, probably 10 or 11, I think, was the last major one and that was because of a DOT ordered 10% cut to transit funding and I think that was associated with a Route 1 removal if I'm not mistaken, Todd's saying yes. So I was not here for that, so I can't tell you what the implications were of that. Thank you. What options are you exploring to recruit more drivers other than the ones that you have in the queue? What's your plan to recruit more drivers? Aside from recruiting from other trans agencies, which I'm trying not to do, simply we've been doing a lot of direct online through Facebook or Indeed or allow the online recruitments that's recruitment firms, the typical ones you see on TV, steering very much away from print, although we have been advertising in the sun on a regular basis. I also take advantage of the radio station standing as that we have on there as well. We've also increased an incentive, both an internal referral from 250 to 500 and we also have been now offering a stay on bonus of $1,000 as well. So we've taken a good look at some of the things that we've been doing. We've had some success pulling, but it kind of goes in waves. So last weekend I had three new applicants. They turned into a couple interviews, sorry, two weekends ago, turned into a couple hires. So maybe fingers crossed another good weekend and we can get a couple more. Another question here, Derek. I guess in terms of this is the last resort option. I mean, right now we're dealing with a labor shortage and I think shabuigan is not unique in that circumstance that many other communities are in similar situations and other departments in our city are facing. This is well too. We're short snowplow drivers. We got winter coming around the corner as well too and police and fire and look on our website, everyone has open positions. I guess in terms of a service industry that we have here and the service that we provide is transportation. I mean, are there other options that you're still exploring or have thought or have seen what other communities have done? Have you looked at restructuring different routes in the evening, just cutting routes and saying this route ends at five or keeping some or making those adjustments or? Well, certainly we, in good question, certainly we have explored, let's say hourly service throughout more of the day to, in a sense, elongate schedules and things that I don't have the actual schedule on that. We didn't go very far on that one just because half our service is so critical during the peak mornings and in the peak afternoons, we really have about a two and a half to three hour window where it's critical to have half our service. So really the only impact to put hourly service was in the midday and that's what we did. So to even elongate it, we would have probably created more problems during our peak times by going hourly service, especially with all the school kids in the morning and the afternoons, we would have simply ran into a lot of issues. So elongating the hourly, it wouldn't have solved our issues. I'd like to explore on-demand service in the evenings that I think is a realistic approach. Microtransit is what it's being referred to in other areas. I know transit systems have gone to that and they have been looking at it as a way to not only address shortages, but also shortfalls from COVID-19. Our CARES Act money is gonna run out at some point and to create a sustainable long-term solution and be mindful of the resources it takes we can provide evening on-demand service utilizing less, in a sense, less resources. So that's still something I'd like to explore on the table. If we can implement some sort of service like that, we could see that come back in the evenings and assist with not only, you know, fixed row customers, but also our traditional paratransit customers as well. So we do have some next step maneuvers. We don't have to necessarily return to the same service. We know that's labor-intensive and if we know we're not getting labor back anytime soon, we have to look at an alternative because these folks in the room here don't wanna see transit service cut, yet alone a cut that lasts, you know, eight, nine, even a year. So we have to be mindful of creating a solution that we can return sooner than later. Okay, another quick question. What, I guess I need some numbers to just kind of think through this process. What's the average ridership that rides from, you know, say five o'clock until the end of service? I guess my question is, you know, where we reduce this service, what's the average number of individuals that utilize the bus in the evening per day? I would tell you the fixed route number is a little bit skewed. We do have our joy riders in the evening. We have students that, you know, just simply ride around. If we looked at the hard numbers of people that actually were going to and from places, let's say shopping or employment, it is something that is greatly reduced from our overall day service. I'd invite any of the drivers to share, you know, those numbers. I think we have mostly all morning drivers, but Sandy does work, worked in the evenings for a while. You know, they would be able to tell you a little bit more about the specifics, but if I look at paratransit, I'm looking at, you know, maybe two or three customers on average any given night. One of our customers, mom was gonna speak before and she'll speak later. You know, she's a regular that rides at night. So we do have some that are directly impacted by this because they do rely on our paratransit service at night, but the fixed route number is very unclear, but it is drastically reduced compared to what our day service is. That one's a little bit harder to pinpoint. Okay, hearing no further questions, we'll put, we'll welcome public input on the service adjustments. If you could come to the podium and state your name and address and please be respectful and keep it to three to four minutes so everyone has time to speak. Oh, no worries. My name is Mary Joapka North and 3905 South 10th Street, Sheboygan. Our daughter has been a paratransit rider for 10 plus years. The service has allowed her to contribute to the Sheboygan community through employment and become independent. As her parents, we can't see enough about those transporting her to and from work. As we know, she's safe and she's in good hands. The drivers are fabulous with her. Due to her cognitive challenges, other means of transportation, such as taxis or Ubers, in our opinion, don't have the same level of safety. Unfortunately for Kari, she works nights and I have several concerns regarding the situation and I did speak with someone and I think it was you at Metro, but first of all, we received the letter on Wednesday, October 20th, stating these changes. This gives us little time to make arrangements for her to ask her employer for change of hours. More of a heads up would have been appreciated time-wise. Second, I know there's a shortage of workers all over in the job that she is trained to do, she is needed at night so this will impact festival foods as well. A change in hours, even if possible, will mean she's gonna need to be job coached again and learn a new job, a new skill. Finally, we understand completely the lack of drivers. We get it. When I chatted with someone though, it was my understanding that the lack of drivers was more so on the transit side rather than the paratransit side. I know, I believe from the law, that the paratransit has to mirror transit but I'm not sure that the opposite is the case. So I guess my question is, if I understood correctly and they do have enough paratransit drivers, why would you discontinue that service just to mirror with the other service? Fair doesn't always mean equal. We've learned that our whole life with Kari so we would certainly appreciate your consideration with keeping paratransit open in the evening. Thank you. Thank you. Yep. Derek, do you have a response? That'd be great. So just to address and we did speak, so she is absolutely correct. Paratransit must mirror fixed route service hours. The reverse doesn't necessarily mean anything. It means that if we operate under the federal government a fixed route transit system and we have set hours for that transit system, we need to mirror those hours with our paratransit service. So under the proposal that we were, we were in a sense reducing our fixed route service, we were reducing our paratransit to mirror the same hours as our fixed route. The reason behind that was to keep it, keep it equal on both services. So not that we were accommodating one service or the other because many of these customers aren't eligible for that service. So we would be, I look at maybe playing favorites and providing service on paratransit that we couldn't provide on fixed route. So it was the idea that we were gonna keep it the same on both of them for that purpose. Now, as far as paratransit drivers, we do have a pool of paratransit drivers. We have the one that usually works at night. And so if we were to, in a sense, extend our paratransit hours above and beyond what we're doing with a fixed route, we probably wouldn't be out of service so much. The long-term issue is that in the short term, we could review it as paratransit, but long-term, if we go outside the fixed route hours with paratransit, no longer it's called paratransit. And that's the idea of going to an on-demand service. So if it no longer mirrors fixed route, it's not paratransit. So we can certainly do that, but my theory and the recommendation was to keep it straightforward consistent across both services while we were reducing service. Do you wanna change that or do you wanna keep it the way that it is considering what was brought up today? I'd be interested in more comments. Okay. We'll open it back up to public comment. Please state your name and address. I'm at Cooner 916 here on Avenue. I have to really remind you guys, a lot of these people that ride transit have no other option but transit. I've requested over years many times on this commission that hang up your car keys for a month. Then you will realize what it's like for those of us that need transit, which is very important to us. I do understand the driver shortage, but you think employers have to realize it's an employee market. In other words, we gotta cater a little bit more to the employees. Maybe we have to up the wage a little bit. Maybe we have to treat our drivers a little bit better. They take a lot of abuse from a few passengers. And if there was a way that they could eliminate those few abuses from those passengers, I think you might be able to keep some drivers. Number two, over the years, I've been riding a bus since I was a kid. And the last, like 10 years, there's been a lot of drivers that started and they start out part-time. And they work one day a week. And they have to be available for the other five days a week. Now, how in the world does a driver support themselves or even justify having a job that's one day a week? I know there's a good dozen drivers that were lost in the last five years. Only my suggestion is up the wages, give the drivers an opportunity when they have a problem person on the bus, kick them off. The bus isn't a privilege or a right. Actually, it's a privilege, not a right. So if they don't want to behave, then maybe they don't need transit, like the rest of us do. Thank you. Thank you. Please state your name and address. My name is Jackie Scheit. My address is 2209 North 37th Street. There was a time in my life when I relied heavily on Sheboygan Transit. If it wasn't that, it was biking or walking. So, you know, anyway, I kind of reiterate what this man had said. And it's a seller's market out there. You know, like if you want to buy a house, good luck because houses are being outbidded. The minute it hits the market, people are outbidding what that house is actually posted as for sale. And that's like with people, you need to offer these drivers a bigger incentive in order to keep them or get them to work extra hours. We have a labor shortage where I work at Sunny Ridge. We have sign-on bonuses that are upwards of $3,000. And then I'm hearing that these guys get a sign-on bonus of $250 to $500. I'm sorry. That's peanuts. That doesn't even pay the mortgage. You know, we got to give these guys some incentives, but also have we thought about doing rotations to where if one person picked up one extra shift every week at the nursing home where I work, we get bonuses for putting in extra hours, automatic bonuses due to the shortage. We're compensating these people extra for their time and we're rotating them so that they don't get overworked and so that it's a regular, everyday thing. And maybe these are some actions that we could explore as well. So, thank you. Thank you. Please state your name and address. Please state your name and address. My name is Jim Cloco. And I would like to say there's a lot of seniors that have to go to doctor appointments. Okay. What I'm trying to try to say to you is like say, if you're gonna stop the half hour between nine and one, a lot of us have doctor appointments that are like nine, 30, 10, 30, whatever. And now I have to call all my doctors and change my appointments because I won't be able to make it because I have to wait a half an hour at the transfer point to get to my appointment at the clinic or an eye doctor which is on 31st Street. You know, a lot of people depend on your buses and I'm a senior and I have to buy a bus pass for $48 when I think some of our seniors should have a discount so that it's a little easier for us to get a bus pass because I can't afford to get a bus pass for myself or my wife because we're on a certain income. All I'm asking is that you think about all the seniors that have to take the bus, especially the handicapped people and other people that depend on your buses. Thank you. Thank you. Please state your name and address. My name is Mark Grube, 13646 Cedar Lake Road. I'm a first shift bus driver for the system. I've been here just a little over 20 years. Just gonna share a little bit of my concerns. Certainly I'm feeling the burn of the overtime we all are and I think we can all share that we are short bus drivers but some things that maybe concern me a little bit being a first shift driver. I can't tell you much about anything beyond 545 but I can tell you a little bit about the first shift. There was a little talk of going to the hourly service. I can tell you that between nine and one o'clock is pretty important to some of our passengers. In the morning we get the school kids, in the afternoon we get the school kids and for the general public, a lot of them like the ride between nine and one. First of all, the buses are a little quieter so they can get a seat. A lot of our passengers were getting the ADA and elderly, I'm one myself. So they feel it's a safer ride. They don't have to deal with 30 kids on the bus. So for the general public, between nine and one, that's their time to ride. If, again, I know we're crunched but if there's any way that we can keep that half hour service it's nice because that's the time that the general public is using it past our student ridership. The other thing too is that the students, we have a really great program with the students. It's just great for ridership. It's working out well for us but the more students we get it doesn't help with revenue. The passengers that are riding between nine and one, although it's not a big number but those are revenue passengers. Those are the passengers that are actually paying every trip. So I think that's something to think about as well. Every rider that we lose for hourly service might have a small impact but it possibly could be an impact on our revenue as well. So my whole thought is that if somehow we could save between that 5.45 and 5.45 a.m. if we can just somehow work out a way that we can keep that half hour service really I think it would do a great help to the community as far as the people that are using the bus during those periods. Thank you. You're welcome. Come on, don't be shy. Come on, there's a lot of rage. Please state your name and address. Edward Procek, 1230 South 13th Street. Couple of reasons why I had to come up here is I echo what Mark brought to you. That is spot on. That's our situation. I also agree with Mr. Mink in the situation we're in. It's a situation that in my short 40 year career so far, 41 year career, generally we've never ran into it in this situation. It's always been looking for money and that you guys, we helped you find it. Looking for people has been a little bit more of a challenge. We have to try to figure out a way to do it. I don't have the answers but I do know we have to do it because exactly what has been stated to you is the issue. The issue is, it is two hours to get somewhere if we go to this one hour service. If you get on a bus, as far as the one gentleman speaking lives on the north side and has to get back to the north side to the clinic, they're gonna get downtown, sit for a half hour. Say go to the store and do your shopping and hour later they'll get on the bus, come back downtown, wait a half hour with their groceries to go back to the north. You could be talking a two, three hour trip. Two hours of your groceries might be outside of the refrigerator and it just, it's an impossibility and it's a task that I don't think we should be asking the citizens to do if we can help it. Like again, I said, we don't have the answers but we'd have to find a solution and I don't, I'm not privy to the information that's needed to make those decisions but I'm asking you as a commission to work with Mr. Mink and of course our union representative to do something for these folks, they need it. I'm gonna be here. The schedule's there. I mean, if the buses are running with 41 years of seniority unless my health goes to heck which we hope it doesn't or Mr. Mink gets fed up with me and bumps me out the door, I should be around. Another thing I'm actually wanna bring up something a little bit more positive. I think we should look forward to the future too. The future could be, maybe. I agree, I like the 515 start. I think that's something that we should stick with instead of going to a 545 start because factories in that in the area are starting that early. The buses should be out there. They used to be at 515. We cut that back over the period of years. The other thing is if we do move forward into an on-demand service as we bring service back in the evening, I would like to see that almost immediately look at the on-demand service continuing until midnight. We need service for second and third shift workers. If we're gonna go on demand, let's go on demand and let's do it. And to do it right, let's do it all the way to midnight. So for now, those are my thoughts and my wishes and dreams. And hopefully we can find a solution and thank you all for your service and thank you everybody, Mr. Mink. Thank you to the citizens who are here tonight. And we hope like heck we can find a solution that we can do something a little bit better than what we've got on the table right now. Tweak it a little bit and then again, looking to the future. Thank you. Thank you. Please say your name and address. Hi, I am a Luan Bemis, 3220 North 13th Street. I've been a driver for the last 24 years. I agree with Ed and Mark with many of the issues with our riders. I also feel that when you read the posting that was recently put on the bus about this meeting and what was gonna be addressed, reading it, it confused many of our riders on how it was put. And so to get them for that short period to understand that when the bus will come and when it won't, I feel it's going to cause some confusion and we may have people waiting at corners for long periods of time. We also have had discussion on that even though that many of us are working over time we, you know, some of us may not care. Some do like to do overtime, but and I am one that, you know, probably doesn't care for it cause I used to do a lot of it in the past, but it does not bother me to do the overtime until, cause I feel that for the future there is going to be drivers, you know, as they said, they have applicants and stuff and I feel that a decision shouldn't be made on what is happening at the moment but having our decisions based on for our future. And so also he brought up with the on demand, I guess the general is that we feel that there needs to be half an hour service from five in the morning, you know, till 5.45, six o'clock at night. We feel that yes, the on demand and like Ed said, if you're going to do on demand, we probably should do it till midnight. And as far as Saturday service, you know, there is somewhat of a route it has been filled in with on demand a little bit here and there and that will, you know, probably works out okay. And as far as our, you know, they put up the fact of trying to accommodate our vacations and it was addressed this morning, one of our supervisors asked if you had to give up your vacation, you know, if he couldn't accommodate it, would you? And some of us are willing to do that, to maintain service because I am a driver to serve the public and this public needs us. And if I have to do it, you know, like they said, it's not expected to be long term. This is, you know, I believe will be just a short term thing. And, you know, I and I know some others, I can't speak for all the drivers. We are willing, you know, to do that. So thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? Derek, so in your IFC, you talk about working with the labor union to work through these proposals. The chair of the labor union is in the room, is the labor union on board with this or not? Jim? Come on, Jim, you knew you weren't gonna get away without seeing anything there. We had discussions on it. On this proposal that's out there tonight for the cutting of service. No, I am not on board with that. We talked to the supervisors this morning. He went around like Lou Anza and asked people, this is his words, if you wanna continue, the way you're going, you'd have to, could you give up your vacation? Which a lot of them did, said that they would. Now, Derek said, no matter, and I spoke to Derek this afternoon, correct me if I'm wrong, this wouldn't work anyway, if we would still stand over time because you couldn't guarantee the vacation, that they would get their vacation because there's so many hours work. We all understand there's a problem, but I don't think we should be rushing into anything right now. If you're going to, like some other driver said, to the on-demand service in the evening as an add-on to what we have now to run from 5.45 in the morning or 5.15 in the morning till 5.45 at night with half an hour service, but the on-demand add-on, that would be acceptable. And I don't have a, see a problem with that, but I do see a problem with the long period of times from 9.45, I believe it is, until 2.15 where you have your hour service. Now, it's the one effect all the drivers, but just take, for example, Mark, when he was up here, he lives out of Sierra Lake. He drives in the morning, he works till 9.45, now he has to wait around town for three, three and a half, four hours, and then start over again or go back home. How many miles do you put on in a day? How long do you think drivers are gonna do that? I mean, that's a lot of miles or for some of the other drivers who live way out of town. So I think, yes, we can put something together. Am I definitely against everything? No, I'm willing to work and find solutions, definitely. But I think there's a little ways to go on this one. If we want to put this one together to make it work for everyone. For the city, which I'm all for because you need a good transit system in a city, in any city, so the city progresses. There's several things that people look at, businesses look at. Please, player, transit system, your garbage, your schools and your churches. If you have those all together, your city's gonna grow. You take part in any one of those apart. You're not gonna have business looking and progressing. We'll never progress if we go backwards. We still have to go forward. So yeah, I'm willing to sit down with Derek or anyone and let's find a solution to this, but let's tweak it so everybody can live with it. Thank you. Chair, I have a follow up question. So is it of your opinion that your membership would be in agreement with going to half hour service from 8.45 a.m. to 1.45 a.m. versus the one hour service, give up their vacations over the holiday and move forward? It's hard to say, because there appears to only be five drivers here. And you have two drivers here. I see, I know there's more than that. Yeah, okay. I can't speak for anyone, but yes, the majority of them told me they would. So they're willing to sacrifice what they have to keep this service going. And so am I, but let's do it together. So I guess Jim, I guess in drivers here is kind of nod if you agree with some of the statements or just your opinion, just get a general consensus. So I guess I'm seeing that there is some workable solutions that we can have that we have some agreements in as well as disagreements in terms of providing service. And I think you make a lot of great points, Jim, is that we want to move forward in the city and think about the future. And the transit services is personal for me. I think a lot of drivers know my brother and utilize the service as well. And I appreciate that and that there are a lot of businesses that rely on transit and there are conversations and communities about how we can expand this and provide more service to folks all over our community. So I guess what we know everyone is facing a labor shortage right now, Derek and his team are working their hardest to fill these positions. I guess I never want to put it on workers backs and saying like, yep, you guys, times are tough, time to cut your vacation and working mandatory over times. I guess what are some of these key points that you're willing to kind of lean in? Because I know when times get tough, everyone has this team mentality where we kind of work together and kind of bear through it until we're back to where we want to be. So I guess how much vacation I guess are people willing to sacrifice? And I don't want to say sacrifice because it's your vacation, you earned it, you negotiated for that, you worked for it, everyone should be guaranteed their vacation. But I guess I'm just curious, is it, you know? I think that we're very- What's the workable factor on that one? How long do you guys work over times? What's the workable factor on that one too? You know, I hope you're not doing double shifts, but just what's, I don't want to go to a breaking point. I don't want to, I don't want to, you guys are stressed, we have kids, you know, with the school districts, we're addressing that, we're working on that. You know, you have some rowdy drivers or, excuse me, passengers working on addressing those as well too. Only adds the rowdy one. So I guess this is just, as a commission member and a mayor, I just want to know where we have wiggle room to come up with a good solution here. And I guess what is the union comfortable with? What are the workers comfortable with? Then Derek, I mean, what works for you guys? Because it seems like this is, you said the third option of where we landed. So I guess I curious Jim, what was the objection or concerns with some of the other options that we could work with here? I mean, I want to come up with a good solution. Well, I'm just going to point out that the scheduling is an operational item as under the jurisdiction of the management of Shoreline Metro. So purely putting schedules together and asking the union what the schedule is going to look like right now, I can't tell you that right now. You know, I mean, if you're going to volunteer Jim to do the scheduling, then he can have at it tomorrow morning. But I'm just making sure that we understand what the role is. We put the schedule together and I'm happy to work with that. But to simply put me on the spot to say what's it going to take to reinstate half-hour service, I don't have the information right now. You know, and simply saying that drivers will forego their vacation. I do appreciate that. I know some have said that. My information this morning was in consensus across the board. So, you know, it's great. If you want to forego your vacation over Thanksgiving, but not over Christmas, and all of a sudden we run into a hurdle over Christmas, that's where the inconsistency lies. So it's not as easy as just simply saying foregoing your vacation. You know, I'm looking at this from a standpoint that these customers here deserve consistent transportation. They're concerned about hourly service throughout the day. They're concerned about hourly service during the day. But if I have drivers calling in sick and I've got further problems with staffing, we're going much worse than hourly service throughout the day. That's my concern. That's me talking as management of short-line metro that the labor is a concern for us. And I can't guarantee that we're not going to run into those problems down the road should we stay status quo at this point. However, during some of their discussions, I have come up with a couple ideas that might be able to put extended vacation, or not vacation, excuse me, over time on a couple of their picks that might in fact put that on their shoulders that if they want that pick with the extra hours on it, we can instate shuttle service or something during hourly service. But to simply go back to half hour service during the day, we're going to still need the same amount of drivers that we need right now. So it's a lot, it's complex guys. And I just want to reiterate that, that putting out Jim or myself on the stand at this point to merely tell you what a schedule is going to look like, I can't tell you that. But we have been talking different solutions throughout the last couple of months on this item. I've been really hitting home that this is a serious problem. And I'm trying to address the best that I can as director of Shoreline Metro. It's not perfect, folks. And I agree and I sympathize with every single one of you in this room. I don't sleep at night and neither does my staff. So I apologize that this is impactful on everybody. We're only trying to do the best that we can. And Mayor, my suggestion would be to you as the commission is, give us some time to look at it. Like Derek said, let's go back and it isn't perfect right now. Let's go back and see what the drivers would do. If they don't agree what he can put together, then so be it. But when you ask me how long would they, or how much application would they give up, each driver is different. Each driver, some will give up a week, some will give up two days, some will, I can't answer that either right now. But I would say asking to put this on hold right now, let's go back and look at it. If we can figure something out that's comparable, that'll work with both of us, I would appreciate that very much. Thanks. I have another question for Derek. So what happens, Derek, if you continue status quo just the way you are and I hate to say it, but COVID strikes the drivers and a number of them have to call in sick. Do you make emergency changes on the fly then at that point? Yes, that's unfortunately what would happen. Okay, so we'd have to set a daily schedule for that day. If by chance, two morning drivers, for example, go out and everybody's used up for that day, we would have to bring in a PM driver to hopefully fill that shift and then hopefully try to fill that PM shift as well. And if we can't fill that PM shift, then we have to go to a daily service schedule, which is what I'm trying to avoid here by doing a flat across the board change in service. But yes, you're- So for the gentlemen that spoke about the doctor's appointments, it would be easier to schedule them in advance knowing that this is the process versus unfortunately getting stuck with a emergency change for a number of days to accommodate driver shortages on the fly when they're gonna be forced to cancel them. At least they could plan it out. What I would like to say is that our lease service is not ideal, especially without shuttle service. I completely understand that, but it's better than no service and it's better than not having what we're currently having a weekday evening. So again, I completely sympathize with this, but if I can't free up at least a couple drivers to ensure that I can cover both vacations, maybe as erratic or as inconsistent as they are, and that I can be prepared in the fact that someone's gonna get sick, I don't think anybody in the back of the room can guarantee that they're not gonna get sick. I don't think anybody in this room can guarantee that, but we have to be prepared, and that's the point. I'd rather err on the side of caution than all of a sudden become disruptive on our day-to-day service. One other solution to- Jim, I just quick question then, then you can speak and add your thoughts. So you say put this on hold, day, two, three a week, like what's- I would say give us a week or two to put it on hold and let's see what we can come up with, to work together and see what we can come up with. I'd appreciate that, and I think we can, because I did have mechanics that he would step up to a plate if somebody when he gets sick, they would jump in a bus. I got a license, I can jump in a bus, small bus, whatever, I mean, there are other things if it would come to that. Hopefully it doesn't, like Derek says, hopefully it doesn't, because he doesn't have the drivers to cover it, but we need to look at it a little bit closer. Thank you. Thank you. For what it's worth, I completely support. I'm fine to go back to status quo guys. I'm here to do whatever the commission wants and feels for service. I'm dedicated to my customers. We've been in the boat about solutions before. I've been waiting, I've been looking, and I'm willing to go back to the board and look for solutions, but I have to point, let's be productive. Let's step up to the plate and come up with solutions because I postponed service one time before based on a request that I was gonna get solutions. So I'm challenging everybody in this room. I'm open to solutions and I'm willing to listen. So if you have something, I'll sit down with any one of you and try to work out a better solution. So ultimately I'm here to serve my transit commission. So if you guys ultimately decide that you'd like to see changes postponed, I will gladly carry out whatever order you guys have for me. Thank you. Just a real quick question. So you chose November 8th for these changes. Was that just based on the timing of this meeting and what you need to publicize that or was that date chosen for some other reason? By labor agreement, we have to do a 10 day notice for postings and so by the time we came out with this pick for drivers to consider, we needed to give those 10 days to the drivers to decide so November 8th became our arbitrary date, if you will. So again, if we want to set a different date or look at something different, again, that's up to the transit commission. Go ahead. Bennett Coonerd again. I have a suggestion. We have two or three dispatchers that work at night and if I understand correctly, all three of them still have their CDL or bus driver license. Why couldn't they be used in a shortfall if somebody calls in an emergency aspect of somebody calls in second and stuff? I realize it might be a little bit of conflict with the union but I think they might be willing to shore up a little bit on this. Thanks. Thank you. Just to clarify that point, if I will, we have one supervisor at night. We have no mechanics after six o'clock and we have two maintenance assistants, excuse me, one that fuels our buses, one that does routine cleaning. So we in a sense don't have extra bodies in the evenings to help out. Please say your name and address. Antoinette Corona Murphy, 1328 Greenfield Avenue. I looked at the schedule that he made with the splits and we're working so many hours then more hours. So we're working, who's gonna go home and go to sleep? So we're gonna be working up in about 12, 13 hours. It's just like the overtime we're doing. Except that, we are working the overtime. I come in here Monday and Tuesday and work my overtime. It's no difference, it's no difference. And I have a life outside here, we all do. So, and the passengers, they're already confused. DVR kids are out there trying to work. They're not gonna have the access to that bus. But it's a lot. And some of us may stay and some of us may not. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, well, you know my name and address already. So we'll set aside that. The on demand service sounds like a really good idea. And possibly you guys could table that. Now, first of all, I would like to thank everybody who makes an effort to be employed at this point. It's not easy. We had a lot of government handouts over the past two years. You know, that we're gonna end up paying back eventually. I guarantee you. And one thing I'm noticing about this economy is with all these places that are short staffed, eventually those businesses are gonna have to reduce their hours and reduce their employees as well and possibly fold, go under. When you cut service, especially at night, a lot of people in this community rely on the transit system in order to get to or from work. And I would like to thank everybody, including you guys who are in a union. I'm in a union too. And I think it's important to look at both sides of the fancy, you guys depend on these for appointments to get your shopping done, to be able to work, you know. There's no easy solution. I know this is gonna sound very unpopular, but possibly a modest, very modest wage increase for daily ridership, you know, I mean like cash, not like bus pass or things like that. Do I think that it was financially smart to have free service available during COVID? No, I don't because where's that money coming from? The buses don't run on air, okay? That's the truth. And you know, somewhere down the line, we're gonna have to dig deep and possibly see if we could get more funding for these buses also. Yeah, I really sympathize with all of you here because you are all being impacted, you're all working so hard. And I understand that perfectly. I'm disabled, but I choose to work. I wanna be part of this community. And thank you so much for all that you do, everybody. Thank you. Please state your name and address. Mark Ruby, 1346 Year Lake Road. Yes, Mark is back. I'm just gonna be selfish for a minute and reiterate really what Tony was talking about. Yes, we're all working a little bit of overtime, I am as well. And I get some of those 10 and 11 hour days, maybe two times a week, sometimes three times a week. The new schedule that we're looking at that would be the hourly service would change our assignments a little bit and what that entails basically is, and I don't have the schedule with me, but the top four drivers in our system would basically work a straight through eight hour day like we normally consider an acceptable work day. Then past that, every driver past those top four would work a split shift or weekends, which happens, but they're set up basically that you work four hours, you have four hours off, and then you come back for four hours and you do that all week long. So if you started five in the morning, your work day really doesn't end till five at night. So a little concern when we talk about driver fatigue, it is fatigue to work two days a week, 10 hours, but maybe you're only working eight hours a day, but now you're committed to basically being productive for 12 if that makes a little more sense how it was worked out. So it's just a concern and again, I know that Derek and the staff is working really hard. I don't have a solution for it and I did actually get to talk to Derek before we had the meeting today and he said they were looking at things to try to maybe make it more workable. Not having that service, I don't know how we can make it work without changing our scheduling program, but again, I think it all comes down to everything that everybody's talking about. There's a lot of good ideas here and it sounds like we do need a little more discussion with everybody. We've had issues like this before and always worked them out. So I think we do have a good future to work it out, but it sounds like we definitely need to talk a little bit more about a few things. Thank you. Derek, is it possible? Yeah, I'm wondering if we should table this for two more weeks. I'm wondering how you feel about that. I have no more comments. It's up to you guys. And then what about the proposal for paratransit in the evening? Because it sounded like you have staff for that, but we're looking for fairness. Any thoughts on, because I understand I think what we're trying to do is address a labor shortage, but if there isn't one in a particular situation, it feels like we can or should offer that. I don't have any other comments. I presented my proposal for your consideration this evening. So if you tell me otherwise, I'll go back to the drawing board with my staff and we'll work something out. So I guess the next steps. So what does that look like, Derek? You say you're gonna go back to the drawing board and work with your staff. Well, I guess you should take a motion first. So I know what the strategy is gonna be. I have a schedule put together for what we were looking at. I can fine tune and critique it. You know, again, my concern is keeping service consistent. I don't wanna get to the point where, you know, these guys, it's great. We're talking today. This could be a three, four month problem, okay? I'm not, I don't know. And at what point are they burned out completely? At what point do we have to cut service because we're in a very difficult situation? That's my concern. We can go back to the drawing board and put together another plan. But at what point is that plan gonna have to be readjusted, readjusted, and so on and so forth? So again, I share my concerns. And I'm not disagreeing with anything they said. I'm actually glad most of them all stood up and said their piece because they're all very accurate. They're great drivers, amazing people. Their livelihoods are at stake. I completely understand that. You know, I didn't sign up for this nine and a half years ago because I was gonna enjoy this moment in time. That was not the point. Point is that I have to make a very tough recommendation to you guys today. And that's what I presented for you. So I appreciate your consideration, but ultimately I'm gonna leave it up to you guys to decide. Thank you. And Barb. Barb's online. Do you want to? Yes. I commend both Derek and the drivers for working at this. And I know there's fatigue because we have, they worked all through COVID. That had to been a big stress on them with their families. And I think I really feel that, you need a little bit of time because everybody wants the same outcome. We all want to try to do the best service for the people that live in Sheboygan. And I'm gonna emphasize that, the best service. So if we have people here telling us that changing the service is not gonna be of service to them, then I think we need to take another look at it. And that's my piece. I have another question. Derek, if you went to half hour service from 8.45 to 1.45 and got rid of, if you went to half hour service from 8.45 to 1.45 and got rid of the paratransit service at night and cut service the way you're planning at 5.45, would that work? Or is it that, is there a problem during the day to, I mean, if you're, they get short and I don't understand that there's concerns with the people with paratransit service, but it seems like the bigger issue is during the day on that hour service. I don't disagree with you. I have concerns over that as well. That's not one of my favorite things to recommend. I wanna say anything is possible. I mean, we can, I don't wanna say we can work through anything. I definitely think there's gonna be really big strategies if we don't look at something a little bit more holistic, but there might be a possibility. Some of them are already said about work in split shifts. There might be a possibility to put shuttles in at least, which provide a lot of value to those midday customers. That might be a possibility that we can kind of use a couple of our what's called picks to perhaps put shuttle service in there, add a couple hours to those picks. It's an opportunity then at that point that those drivers that want those extra hours can sign up for that pick. But I don't have the picks in front of me. I'm going off kind of memory right now. I mean, again, we can work through, we can work with anything. It's just gonna be a matter of, how consistent it's gonna be. And that's again, my concern. So could you try the half hour service from 5.15 a.m. to 5.45 p.m. And get rid of the evening service as planned and the paratransit and see how that works from a staffing standpoint. And if it needs to be tweaked, come back to the commission. We can work on that. I mean, again, it's gonna be important. I would look at the chair of the union and just ask the question, do you think that in your opinion, the 5.45, 8.45 to 1.45, the half hour service during the day is the bigger hang up than the paratransit service in the evening? Luanne, 3220 North 13th Street. When we were talking about with his first proposal, he was gonna have, there is 17 full-time drivers. He was proposing to have 18 full-time drivers because he was going to include school routes into our full-time picks. And of course, we had an issue with that because a lot of us, our first shift wasn't going to, he kind of, what should I say, to us, we felt like he sort of massacred it. And we were gonna end up with less than 40 hours because he was gonna be adding another full-time. And of course, days when there's not school, then you wouldn't have been driving and you might not have had an eight-hour day or almost an eight-hour day. And then this last proposal went from that, he was now going to keep 17 full-time because we did have one person that was out on medical, I believe, and can't come back. So he had to retire and he filled that position. And I guess my thought was that in the past, when we've had service cuts, that usually you would lose the full-time positions to accommodate, I mean, there was a time where I think we had like 22 full-time and through time with budget cuts, the full-time positions got less. So with this last proposal, he had it that this whole thing was going to be working that there would be 13 full-time positions and the other four were going to like fill in for vacation and sickness and whatever. So I guess, I don't know, if this are ready, what we have is got for 13, where's the other work going for the other four if you're keeping 17? Like I said, it's through all these proposals. That's my question on that. So thank you. So I think I'm gonna make a motion to have the staff work on 515 to 545, half-hour service, no evening service, no paratransit service. And he didn't talk about Saturdays. So that's weekdays. Tell me about Saturdays. 845 to 345, hourly service as it is right now. Just no paratransit. It's an hourly service on Saturdays? Correct. Okay, so then my motion would be to go to 515 to 545, half-hour service, no paratransit, no evening service, and the one-hour service on Saturdays as we currently do with the paratransit from 845 to 345. There. Can I just ask for one minor clarification? It is the transit commission's ability to set service, get the service hours. It is hour prerogative to put the schedules together to make that happen. I wanna make sure that that is still vested in me and my staff to do that. Yeah, I don't wanna do that. You set the, you're setting the hours. I'm setting the hours, correct. Thank you. Jay, can you say that one more time? Sure. Just for myself and for everyone else here as well. Weekday service, 515 a.m. to 545 p.m., half-hour service, no evening service and no paratransit after the 545, and then the Saturday 845 to 345 one-hour service, paratransit during that same timeframe and nothing after 345 on Saturday. And to give that a try and see how that works going into the holiday season and see if that's workable. And if not, it can come back and we can have the discussion again. Okay. So Chad, Barb, Feldy, on the phone. So if you're picking the hours, Derek just said that supposedly he's the one that's supposed to set those things. So are we out of step here? Is that? Derek said that it's the role of the transit commission to set the hours and it's the role of the staff and the operations team to schedule around those hours. So that's why I made the motion as such. All right, got it. Can I have a second? Any further discussion? I guess just the general consensus or thoughts from employees, drivers, does that sound workable? Yes, it does. And it's only temporary as well too. And if Derek comes back to us in two weeks and I would still hope that the conversations continue between the employees and our transit shoreline Metro leadership as well to continue to figure out what's working, what's not to making sure that we can provide service. And I think that's the prerogative that myself and the commission wants. Fundamentally, we understand we're in a difficult time. Everyone's struggling, but we gotta figure out what a workable solution is to making sure that we're keeping service and providing a good service. Exactly. I guess this is new territory for a lot of us. We wanna make sure that we're making an educated decision. Yes, thank you, Mayor. Thank you for your time and thank you for consideration for letting us appear and speak on this issue and your decision. And we definitely will work together with management and make sure that we will get this worked out one way or the other. And of course, Derek will report back to you on how it's going. But thank you again. And I just, another comment, Chair. I just think, this sucks. No one wants to be in this situation. This is one of those meetings where you leave the meeting and you don't feel good because I don't feel like there's a true benefit for everybody. But we're in a weird time in the world right now and we're still trying to figure this all out. You know, this is not something, a decision that any of us take lightly. But I do appreciate the transit drivers for coming out. I appreciate the public speaking their mind. I appreciate the work that Derek and Ann and everyone at Shoreline Metro does. But please continue to communicate with us. This helps us make better decisions. You know, I hope that we can get back to full functioning service sooner than later. You know, so if you know anyone or that wants to go and get their CDL, then please have them apply. Any way that we can help out, I think this is finding more drivers, providing their employees backup and support. Goes a long, long way. But this just sucks. And this is not a feel-good meeting for any of us. I know for folks up here and down there as well too. It's just, we appreciate working with you all and trying to figure out a temporary solution on that. Those are my final comments. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed say nay. The motion is passed. Our next meeting, in the side item, item 3.6, meeting dates for 2022. Thank you. Per your recommendation, we set some standard dates for 2022. So pick the third or fourth Tuesday like we traditionally have been meeting. Doing a bi-monthly schedule, so starting in January, and you can see the schedule. We moved Thanksgiving week to the week after. I don't know if anybody is a hunter, so we tried to stay away from the week before. Seriously. But anyways, we set the date, so we've got six of them set. I'm sorry in the last motion where we, what was the timeline? Was I supposed to schedule something between now and the end of the year? Or are we staying the course until? I think you have to play it by year and you have to make the recommendation as you see fit as the manager of the department. Okay, thank you. Then that's my recommendation for the 2020 schedule. So if you want to set it and everybody approves it, then we know what they are. And if we need to cancel or tweak as we go along, we will, but otherwise we'll schedule those and I'll provide updates bare minimum at each meeting. I'll make a motion to approve the meeting dates for 2022. Second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed, say nay. Motion passed. So the next meeting date is set for January 18th in 2022 unless we hear otherwise. Can I have a motion to adjourn the meeting? Move to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed, say nay. Meeting adjourned. Thank you everyone.