 Hello, everyone. Welcome to Town Meeting TV. I'm sitting here with Dan Higgins. He is the ambassador for Burlington, for Puerto Cabezas, and he is here to share his experiences and a little bit about the history of our sister city relationship here in Burlington. So thank you for being here with me, Dan. Well, first off, my first question is, how did we get a sister city? That's an important question, and a lot of people aren't even aware that there are sister cities and they've all have a particular history. It was in 1984 that the war was going on, the Reagan administration was trying to overthrow the Sandinista government with a lot of illegal stuff, too, and people around the country were protesting and in Burlington, the people went to City Hall and they said, do we want to have a more reasonable relationship with the people in Makaragua? And so they asked for a sister city and I don't really know what went on behind the scenes, but in 1984, Burlington became the sister city with Puerto Cabezas. And what's interesting about Puerto Cabezas, I can hold this up, is it's on the Caribbean coast, it's very different cultures than the Managua side and it wasn't particularly fond of the Sandinista government at that time. So Burlington, very interestingly, had a kind of a sister city that was not in sync with what people in Burlington thought the revolution was about. So it's been a very interesting learning curve. It has been a learning curve. Is there any, how would you describe those differences like best, like between not only the Managua side and the Caribbean coast side, but also like how Burlington understood the culture specifically in Puerto Cabezas? I think for people in Burlington, they knew the revolution, they knew the aspirations of the Sandinista revolution and they were supportive of it. When you get down to Puerto Cabezas, it's an area that has been not a big part of, it's been colonized, it's the British have been down there for the 19th century. You've got a lot of different languages. Mosquito is the most common one. Creole, you've got Creole people. And so it's a culture that has evolved with different religious beliefs, different food. Very, very interesting place that's not completely part of Nicaragua. In 18, what is it, 1885 or so, a general, general Cabezas went in there and took it over as part of Nicaragua, reassemble it. He's not a very popular name. And so the town now has been renamed the indigenous name Billwe, which was more of the indigenous name. Awesome, well, thanks for sharing that. That's as much as I can know. And it was during the war, it was during the Reagan administration was putting a lot of funds into overthrowing the, it was called the Contras, trying to overthrow the Sandinista government. And what we were seeing in the press were just pictures of the war. And I was, as someone in Burlington was interested in what's the place really like aside from all the wall, the war. So would you say that that's kind of where you started to get involved in the sister city side of this relationship or was it after we had formally made it a sister city or was it? It was formally a sister city. Burlington was very involved in a boat, a peace boat that went down there. Richard Kemp was on that boat, taking supplies to Puerto Cabezas because people were being, they were out of their homes. It was that kind of thing. And I, my first attempt at trying to understand the place was, and I do photography and they're all posed. And so it was like, I was doing things like, here's the city hall in Burlington. And here's the city hall in Port. Now you see Bernie's in there. It was that period of, here's a diner that was very popular in Burlington. That's the Oasis diner. There's a taco place down there now. And then this was them. So they're all posing with what they do. Like really showing those similarities between. Trying to. And I went down, this happened a different year. This is the nurses. And the first year I went down there, people were kind of hesitant and going, I went back the next year and did a show. And then nurses came up and they said, we're part of this community. And so then I had to come up to the hospital here and find the women that do laundry in the hospital. This, by the way, was sent down during the material aid shipment. The washing machine? It's from Burlington. I think it's a dryer. Maybe it's a washing machine. So it kind of expanded. I did school kids. Taxi drivers, taxi drivers everywhere, basically are kind of independent. They don't like any kind of government telling them what to do. And let's see if I can find it. I don't know if you knew this woman. This was the woman in Burlington that she was called the hot dog lady. Oh, no. And so I did the one of Burlington, and then I found her counterpart down there. So a lot of what my interest in the sister city has been taking people from Burlington and introducing them to their counterparts. In fact, this is a counterpart that would appeal to you because it's people doing public access television. Oh, that's amazing. So if I can talk you into coming down there, Travis, these are the people you could become, let's see, well, it's in here anyway. They're there. That's amazing. So they do a good job. And we trained them, CCTV, in the year 2000. There was no cable. There was no TV. There were radio stations that were very big. And then cable came in and there was nothing local. And we went down there with five little cameras. CCTV gave us some outdated VHS editing equipment. And we did a course there for three months and trained 18 people how to use, how to document what they thought was important about the area. That's amazing. And that's amazing. It was. And a lot of them are now doing the TV stuff. A lot of them are, some of the people that are sending up videos are part of that. What do you feel like you've learned from the folks that are doing, that are going and recording their videos about their community? Much like how we do it here. What do you feel like? Do you feel like it's similar in a lot of ways? Or do you feel like there's really glaring differences? What was very different was people hadn't seen television. And so, once you've seen enough television, you kind of make your stuff fit it. And there were shots, there were beautiful shots that were like, one guy, he wanted to take, we had some little cameras, he went up to a village and he came back with seven minute long sequences. None of that, and it would be great. It would be like, he'd see a girl way off in a village walking across the field and just on there and it took her five minutes to get, and then she'd stop and talk to someone and then he'd follow her up on the porch. And so, it was very interesting to see how much of, those of us that had seen television were informed by it. And that's become much more now. I mean, now with it, you know, they have a newsman and they had a big issue about whether you should wear a tie or not. Oh yeah, so now that they've seen more and more television and media, it's just been, you think that people went through, they've seen a lot of television and media, they eventually start to try to emulate it, but like before that, it's just, when they get to do it. Well, and they hadn't seen television. This was a really remote part of the country. Cable came in in 1986, I think. And then they were watching Brazilian soap operas, which are pretty interesting, but nothing local. So, you know, sometimes it would be really fun to show some of the stuff that was done in the year 2000 with these people. And there was a church that sent someone. Church is a very big there, Moravian church. The Concejo de Ancianos, which is indigenous government system, sent a really interesting guy. He's the guy that went up to villages and filmed. So it was very interesting. Oh wow. Wow, it sounds amazing. And I will say, because we're trying to get people in Burlington to be aware of this thing, it's been, in the 80s, people in Burlington were collecting material goods. It was in the news all the time. In the 90s, Burlington ran a tree nursery for after the war, fruit trees. Pretty much in the year 2000, I got interested in video and public access, getting that. And it's always been, it's always had the flavor of the people that are involved. And so what we're trying to do now is get people to be aware of this connection. And I think it's one of the big resources of Burlington to have this. You go down there and they say, oh, Burlington, I mean, you're home. Yeah. You're home. That's amazing. How does someone get involved with, is it something you have to take like personal responsibility and just go to Puerto Gubesas and figure it out? Or is it more of a system? We have a board. The city of Burlington puts $2,000 a year into it. It does it for its other sister cities too. We have a board. We, for a while, were meeting every month. We haven't been since COVID. And what we're doing now, I am hoping to take a delegation, a delegation down in probably February. February, March is a good time to get out of Vermont. So people can, there is a website, www.uvm.edu slash sister city, that they can reach us. We're looking for someone to redo the website. I did it a long time ago and it doesn't even. A lot's changed. Technology has changed. So what I'm trying to do now, to make Burlington aware of this incredible place, is there are people down there that are shooting video with their cell phones, with their smartphones. And great stuff. And I've got a guy now that is trying to do an interview with the mayor down there. There's a new mayor. And just keep the connection going. Yeah, and for you personally, what do you feel like the future of this relationship could be? Or what are some personal goals as well? No, I think it's up to who gets involved. I mean, there's always been connecting people. And the connections are the most important thing. I think we'll find some, I'm counting on CCTV to reach out and get some interest. And do you think there, well, are there other sister cities? There are. There was after this sister city, Burlington had one in Yaroslavl in Russia, which I think with the Ukraine war going on, the city is no longer putting money into it. But it's, people are still going. And there's one in, it's a three-part one in Palestine, Israel, and Burlington, which is a very interesting one. Yeah. And a lot of the problems that they have connecting with the situation is, you can imagine. Yeah, lots of tip-toeing on lines probably. But there was a period in the 80s, Peter Clavel, when he was the mayor, he supported all these things. Really believed that citizen diplomacy was effective, that getting citizens connecting was the way to go. And that was the idea of the sister cities. You know, and it's certainly worked in, it's been, what, 1984? How many years is that, about 30 some years? I think actually it's the same year that CCTV was started, 1984. Yeah, so that's 39 years, almost 40. There we go. Celebrating our 40th anniversary next year, everyone. It was a very interesting time in Burlington. A lot of things were happening. Yeah, and do you think, would you want Burlington to step up more for their sister city relationship, or do you think it just needs to morph and regain citizen interest again to see where to take it? Well, there were times when the mayors were close, when on that official level there was more. Peter, the mayor from Puerto Cabasas, and Peter were very close, and he came here, they went, Peter's been down there four times. You know, Peter Clavel? I've met him a few times. He's a very strong, he's on the board, the sister city, very strong supporter. But on the official level, I don't think it's a top priority anymore for either place. And you know, Miro is, I mean, he's the mayor now, but I don't think he's beating the bushes to get the sister city connection going. Which some of the mayors did, so there have been times when it was more official. I would say that the most important connections right now are the connections that people have made. You know, I mean, there are a lot of people that are sending videos now, which is great. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. Is there anything else you want to say? No, I just think it's time to let Burlington, you know, and I don't know how many people watch television anymore, that there is a sister city and that there are opportunities. There have been great things with musicians. I always, this is a poet, one of the mosquito poets. Oh, wow, all the books, all the books, I love it. There are, oh, it's just, well, this is a band. You know, one of the themes that you run into is called autonomy. And at different times, that coast has been autonomous, it's been its own thing, it's been a British protector of it, it's part of Nicaragua now, but it's autonomous, whatever that means, and you can ask a hundred people. Yeah, and they'll all give you a different answer. They'll give you a different answer, but it's a distinctly, it's a separate region. This is a couple of musicians who came to, on this side, oh, on this side, not this side, backwards, who came to Vermont, and then they played, one of them had never been out of Nicaragua. They got here, they came on People's Express, somebody took them down to one of the stores to get a new shirt, and then they appeared at the Ben & Jerry International Music Festival with Pete Seeger. So, I mean, they've been highlights. That's amazing. Along the way, this is food, I'll just say something about the food. There's a thing called rondon, which means rundown, but it's a stew, and then the vigoron is, she's the lady that's been selling it on the street for years. I think it's not like the rest of Nicaragua. And there has been an isolation, used to have to, it took about 18 hours to get from Nicaragua. There was a ferry boat, you know, you get on the, pull the rope, and it was always flooded. And last October, they put a highway in with a bridge that has totally changed. The landscape of the city. Yeah, and I'm sure they're positive, and I'm sure they're negative effects, but all of a sudden getting from Nicaragua to that part of the, to the coast is much easier. And it's good for tourism, I guess, but it's also bad for tourism. Yeah, for sure. Well, again, thank you so much for sitting down with me and kind of giving me a fuller picture of sister cities, the history of it, and also the history of Puerto Cabezas. Thanks for watching. This has been Tommy and KTV. I'm Travis here with Dan. Thank y'all.