 Okay, we're good. We are live Okay, everybody drew here at that anxiety guide calm back again for another podcast with the fabulous Holly Could say from Mallorca and the blazing heat as always. How's it going Holly? Yeah, good. Yes. Oh good. Yeah, hot, but good We are going to go through and I'm gonna look down at my my phone. I have Kindle up on my phone here So forgive me if I'm reading as I go. Yeah, there we go. Very old coffee Holly's going old school. I'm going high-tech here. So we are going to go through chapter four of hope and help for your nerves If you've been following along it's the Claire Weeks book we were just talking written in the early 60s and Hopefully even following along so we're gonna go through chapter four today. It's a really long chapter. So let's get into it Right away. I think this chapter is entitled the commonest simplest form of nervous illness and The way dr. Weeks starts the chapter is to just start going through like a laundry list of anxiety symptoms Which I think Holly would you'd probably agree. That's the number one topic of discussion Yes, anyone anywhere that people with anxiety gather the number one topic of discussion is symptoms So she gets us started here talking about a laundry list of anxiety symptoms Maybe we could go through a couple of them. Should we go through a bit of a list? I mean, I know that everything you can imagine, but yeah, it's true she talks about almost everyone she basically gives us a list of Symptoms that people have brought into real doctors. I guess in Australia where she was from and to herself and She goes through a few of them fatigue What she calls churning stomach, which I think I don't know anybody who talks about churning stomach anymore I always say like I have a knot in my stomach. Yeah, or you know upset flutters in your tummy Churning stomach indigestion racing heart banging heart palpitations missed heartbeats. That's huge Yeah, that's a symptom for me that they're actually a slightly irregular heartbeat or skipped heartbeats Paint sure Sharp pains in the chest sore feeling in the chest pins and needles a choking feeling we could probably go through Yes, so many of the tight feelings across the chest, that's a big one for me Under the skin type in of pain around the head heavy weight pressing on top of head Yep, giddiness. That's a massive one for me. Giddiness strange tricks of vision such as apparent movement of inanimate objects weak spells sleeplessness depression nausea occasional vomiting and diarrhea frequent desires of past year And it's like just everything. It's just a big long laundry list and we could go for two hours and talk about anxiety symptoms I just want quick clarification. Giddiness is not something that we hear about a lot in the US I think we would probably all that I think that probably speaks to like the Depersonalization thing or possibly even a little bit of dizziness or disorientation. Is that yeah, so yeah disorientation Lousiness, I guess we don't generally use the word giddiness So remember when I first read the book I'm like, yeah to me get being giddy is like being silly and happy Yeah, use the word giddiness. Oh, I'm giddy, you know, so at any rate So she goes through this long list of very common anxiety symptoms I think most of the people listening to us could probably relate to it many of them And I'll throw out there that she's going to talk about how you know The bottom line here is to understand that those symptoms are not the problem. They're not dangerous That's not the problem And she she goes into what I think is the real crux of the book Which is her that whole sensitization bewilderment and fear thing, which is she starts to talk about that next I think Which is really what she talks a lot about. It's almost Really her main approach to nervous illness or whatever she wants to call it And and I think sensitization is probably where we should start where everything trigger. Yeah We'll just quickly say it should just before she goes on to that She just says that rarely people Sometimes like because they focus so much on the symptoms They think that there's something like physically wrong with them and they're that well They used to be anyway quite unaware at this point that like it was actually like an emotional Sort of like a well-recognized pattern of symptoms that are caused by like emotional stress Then there's these are general in symptoms. That's true And I that's a really good point that I'm glad you brought that up because so many people get stuck on the physical symptoms and Trying to just beat down the symptoms Fix the symptoms and it would go away and as you'll see as we go further her She postulates that the symptoms are not the problem at all. They're just And it's kind of irrelevant which symptoms you've got as well Like they're all caused by the same thing like the adrenaline or like the hyperventilation And so like it's kind of irrelevant whether you get this one or this one and chest or the stomach Or you know, it's just like that's not the problem. The problem is the way you react to them And yes, that is very true. That is very very true. So let's go through. I think we'll it's such a long chapter We'll have to try and move it as best we can so let's go through sensitization where she talks about Sensitization and I think I hear people talk in the forums online all the time about triggers You know, what's my what are my triggers when I think that's what she's talking about here We've become sensitized to everything and I like her she talks about the cleaner's broom against his bread his bed Which is such a an interesting She picks the strangest like analogies are examples, but it's true This is where she talks about where even just the shock of the I think she's talking about being in the hospital and the janitors The cleaners put it, you know, just hitting his broom leaning his broom against the wall or against the bed Just that sound could send them send someone into a tizzy Yeah, I think that's probably true. That's where you become so sensitized and everything becomes a trigger So did you have anything in particular on that that? She said the like the simple shock of tripping in the dark maybe enough to bring a flash of panic to a severely sensitized person so yeah, yeah For me for sure like it could be like just allowed not a member like I was driving once and my boyfriend at the time Was listening to a football match and his team scored and he was like yes goal And like he like him going like yes goal like actually like threw me into a panic. It's I don't really angry with him Like how dare you do that and like it's just like he was just cheering his team man. It was my problem You know, it is so funny. Yeah, I'm just just for one quick second of holly if you could try and bring your mic down Just a little more just a little more if you can and I completely relate to that for me One of the strangest things that I always had was even a change in the light so right now there's a window right next to me and it's pretty sunny where I am or it was anyway, but If a cloud went across the Sun and that the light changed just a little bit or if that happened while I was driving That could trigger me. It was just the strangest any old thing a sound anything So this is what she's talking about here when she talks about sensitization where you're so overly sensitized that Just about anything can start to trigger that flood of anxiety and fear and panic Yeah, go up a little bit more just a little bit from where you are Yeah, just up a little bit and we realize I'd forgotten to say perfect. Yeah, that's perfect. That's perfect So we're getting it. It's only taken us four episodes to figure out the audio part of this So all right, we're good with that so from sensitization she starts to go She talks about fear I think fear is big and fear of the unknown Not knowing what's going on. She has a nice little subheading called they fear the unknown as much No, they fear the unknown as much as the known So like people are scared of their symptoms But they're also scared of like what extra things might happen to them or what like these symptoms could mean and like all these unknown Things so it's like they're not only like scared of the way that they're feeling But they're scared of like what might happen next and what she tries to sort of like make clear is that Your symptoms follow a pattern and so once you especially once your patterns being sort of like established It's actually quite hard like there isn't any surprises like people think they're gonna pass out You know because they feel this giddiness or dizziness, you know And like she's like you're not gonna pass out because that's not one of the pattern That's not one of the actual symptoms of anxiety. You know, so It's like, you know, that's true And I think fearing the unknown where well, I know how I feel and it it's must it's going to get worse Like I think we interpret those symptoms as what it's going to lead to like you said passing out or having a heart attack or stroke Or going crazy and none of those things ever happen But yet we fear them anyway and that and that adds to the adrenaline fear cycle it adds to being more sensitized So it's just as horrible cycle once you get stuck in it Just gets worse and worse and worse and you know, it's hard enough to just stand upright sometimes without trying to remain calm So, yeah, it's I like that she does that is you know that her first sensitization bewilderment fear That's the first thing she brings up. I think it's good And bewilderment they fear the unknown as as much as the they fear the unknown as much as the known I think is that bewilderness because they don't people we just don't understand And I think especially people who are starting to experience anxiety issues at the beginning You know when they're first it's new to them and it's this great unknown something must be horribly wrong with me Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's huge and just not knowing what it is I think it's such a huge thing and what she talks about bewilderment I think that's exactly what she's talking about and we probably have a leg up because we have so we we're doing this right now I mean you're on the other side of the world and where we're talking about this people are watching and that didn't exist in 1962 so no can you imagine like you'd have to go to the library to try and find any form of Self-help or something, you know, I hope there was a book or we go see a doctor who would tell you you were suffering from nerves and Yeah, so I could completely understand why she spends a lot of time talking about Not knowing and just being unsure of what the heck is going on But I think these days we do have a leg up because we can communicate with each other so well share information But yet I'm still amazed there I don't know. Yeah, I would argue that a lot of the you know And you see in like the forums and stuff the biggest problem a lot of people have is that they have a diagnosis But they don't necessarily know what that means or how to get better from it, you know, like yes It's just they get given that diagnosis and then they're like, oh, right, so I've got panic disorder So that's me for life then, you know, and it's like it isn't Doctors not explained it properly then or you know, that's true or I have panic disorder I have generalized anxiety disorder and therefore How do I stop my heart from racing or how do I stop that dizziness thing? So I think there's still a lack of understanding or there's a there's a tremendous amount of unknown even though we might know now Yes, you have panic disorder. You have generalized anxiety Maybe it is the doctors. I don't I don't know. It's just not enough explanation It's well, this is what this really is and this is how we're going to go about treating that It's just like diagnosis sometimes a prescription and you're often running and people are still bewildered, you know She would call it bewildered not not really knowing. Yeah. So even though we have so many resources and we're able to communicate So readily there's still a lot of people who especially in the beginning of their journey are just terrified You know on a hair trigger sensitize and still in the dark. It's it's actually yeah So I guess let's move on. She's she's talking about Fransky Okay, that's how he's dog. She's the best So funny, okay, so let's talk about being concerned with the way we feel Yeah, there's an interesting bit in the in the I just want to read a little passage from the book She says I wish to stress very strongly that many sufferers from nervous illness have no specific problem keeping them ill Other than finding the way to recovery the great majority of my nervously ill patients have been made ill and kept till because of the way They feel because of fear of what they think may happen next and so like that's the whole Like that's the whole crux of like what's keeping you ill isn't is you you know like and you're not You that you haven't found the way to get better yet, you know Like there's nothing actually keeping you will other than and you and it's a really hard thing to accept because people would say I would never do this to myself Yes, you know like of course. I'm not making myself ill and it's just like it's not that you're making yourself ill It's just that you You need to make a change to the way you're dealing with it to be able to get better from it I think people resist that so much. It's a good thing people don't actually know where you are because they'd be sending hate mail To you right now. I'm joking a little bit But you know when you say the thing that's keeping you ill is you I've seen people get really angry And what do you mean? Yes, of course. Oh, I choose to be this way. No, we never choose to be this way But what she's what dr. Weeks is really saying here is that you're just and we talked about this last week, too What really drives it and what gets you over the edge from being just nervous or anxious to having an actual disorder That starts to impact your lifestyle is becoming afraid of the symptoms You're afraid of how you feel and that is what once you get into that territory. Well, now you got to approach this a whole different way And this is what she starts talking about and she said then she goes to the fear adrenaline fear cycle Which I kind of feel like we went over that in a yeah So what is here? She's like now she now then just describes like a general sort of like pattern of how a Person develops like full-blown nervous illness So she starts at the beginning like maybe they feel palpitations and so they're just like what's this and then they start and they're feeling palpitations because they're like super stressed already or something and it's so their body's releasing Adrenaline it causes one of the symptoms like palpitations They start to notice it because they're sensitized to their body and how their body is working because I mean like I think heart Like healthy hearts pulp to have palpitations all the time. It's just that you don't notice them, right? Yeah, yeah, but like when you're sensitized and like you're so like You're sort of like internally scanning your body the whole time for like anything that could possibly be going wrong You know like you start to interfere with the automatic workings of your body like listening like have I remembered to breathe? I see people saying like oh, you know and I like I caught myself not breathing and it's You know, I mean like our bodies do function without us thinking about each heartbeat and stuff But when we become so nervously ill and aware we just notice well. Oh my god. My heart just skipped a beat Oh my god, does this mean I'm dying and then they have more fear than the adrenaline comes because they're Fearful and then because the adrenaline comes they have more of these adrenaline symptoms which cause them more fear and does the cycle That's that vicious cycle that just feeds upon itself Yeah, so it's there's you know, we'll talk as we go further through the book We'll talk about ways to break that cycle, but I think for now It's just understanding that you are sensitized you aren't a hair trigger that it's the fear of how you feel That's keeping you that way and and at least understanding what that fear adrenaline fear cycle is So before you can try and fix it or break that cycle We have to at least acknowledge that that's there and that's what's happening right now Knowledge is power. It's huge. It's huge except that I think as you go through the book as we go through the book Knowledge is power, but we deal with just knowing what it is doesn't necessarily solve the problem But knowing what it is certainly helps. It's the first step. So The next part that she goes through where she says it's tension through fear that don't overdo it I love this part of the chapter because I think it it speaks to what a lot of people do. Hey That's how he says we're making it No big deal, but she talks about Somebody you know nervous sufferer goes to the doctor the doctor reassures this person. It's okay. You're you're all good But you know better better take things easy better not overdo it And so I think we we have this these conflicting signals where you'll hear people Maybe like me or you who will tell people, you know, you really have to confront the fear You have to get out there and expose yourself to the things that you fear you have to learn to face them But at the same time there's that you know, yeah, but take it easy. Don't go too hard Be gentle And so there's that tension that gets created where well, I I know I'm supposed to confront this fear But I'm not supposed to push it and when I confront the fear I get more afraid and so it just builds even more tension So I think this is big for me that whole Be gentle be good to yourself. Take it slow. Take it easy. Yeah I have a hard time with that a little bit I don't I'm not trying to tell people to go from stuck on the sofa to trying to climb Mount Everest But I feel really strong that when she talks about building more fear through tension This addresses that like you do have to go in small steps But each step is an effort and it's okay to make the effort So when you're making that effort, you're going to feel more fear. That's okay So backing away from it like oh, I can't do that because I got more afraid. Well, that's you're supposed to get more afraid Like you have to get more afraid before you get less afraid So I find this this is a big topic for me that whole thing I'm like, yes, take it slow and be methodical step by step, but it doesn't mean To back away from the fear. I don't know if does that make any sense and I think that's what she's talking about Yeah, yeah, no, it's totally yeah So and then she says you get like the other reaction as well where like Because she was saying that like the doctor might be saying I don't think the doc the necessarily the doctor would say this these days But on those days the doctor might say like oh, you know Don't overdo it and then like they'll sort of like she says it can create more brooding and worry over there Like bad heart, you know, which because they haven't got a bad heart But you know the doctor sort of told them to take it easy And so they think that like oh, maybe he told me to take it easy so that I don't stress my heart You know and stuff like that. It's just like no, that's not really The key and then like the other the other flip side is that the the doctor might like make too much light of it And just be like oh, no, you just suffer and nerves don't worry about it You can you can carry on and then they think like well the doctor must have missed something serious Like, you know, he didn't run every single test on my heart or you know He didn't run every test that literally exists for all these symptoms that I've got You know, he's dismissed it as of of something and so there must be something Seriously wrong with me that even the doctor hasn't caught and so yeah, that creates more Attention more fear of the unknown that thing that the doctor missed or what I've also seen happen Is people may be afraid that the doctor missed something There's something seriously wrong and no one's finding it But also There's that but then there's also the well, what do you mean? I'm I'm okay Like I must have the worst anxiety ever Because the doctor's saying I'm supposed to be okay, and I'm obviously not okay So people get freaked out over that too. I think to a certain extent like I'm obviously not okay Even though this the doctor over here 10 doctors have told me I'm okay, but don't they know that I'm not And in reality it goes right back to the no, you really are okay Which are really the problem really is that you're afraid of how you feel and like we talked about before so There's a whole lot to read into that. She does specifically start to mention panic You know, she mentions fear of other bodily sensations. I think she tries to go through A lot of symptoms and address a lot of them And then she just sort of has this couple of paragraphs where she just talks about a catchall fear of other upsetting bodily sensations And yeah, we hear about that all the time If you look on the forums or the facebook groups and whatnot people will talk about you see at least once a day You're going to see somebody ask that question. Well today, you know, my hair felt funny. Is that anxiety? Yeah, it's like any possible thing that we can think about like my fingernail. This seems a little itchy So is I had a strange pain in this part of my hand Right. Does anybody else get that? So you're right. We become afraid of every possible sensation So she does mention that and then she talks specifically about panic You know, she has a subheading here called panic Some people as well as having background of disturbing sensations are swept from time to time by intense waves of panic So she specifically acknowledges that not only can you just feel generally anxious and afraid and on edge and at the Edge of panic, but she specifically acknowledges that yes, there are times when you literally will go into a panic Full blown panic and and you know, I think we we know what that is You know, so she's specifically mentioning this at this point a full blown panic attack where that's it. You're at level 10 You're convinced that you're dying, you know, that's the call 911 or whatever your emergency numbers are here in the state's 911 but She I think it's really big that she mentions it, but it's funny that she doesn't talk about it that much She she gives us like two paragraphs about panic. Yeah Yeah, panic could happen too. And then she just sort of moves on which I think so many people listening to us So watching us probably would think yeah, hello. That's the main. That's why I'm listening. That's like the main Right, you know Yeah, exactly because that's what we're afraid of we're afraid of how we feel But where I think we're really afraid that it's going to lead to that worst case scenario, which is panic Which you know, so she mentioned it but sort of as almost a throwaway And uh, up next she talks about you know, it's the why doesn't he pull up his socks or you know, what is The note they say, you know, why doesn't he get hold of yourself? Hold man. Yeah You've got to fight this thing old man. Yes. Yes. I love that in her 1940s movie dialogue writing Why don't we talk about that a little bit? Why doesn't he pull up his socks? I think that's that when people hear that it's all in your head. Just get it together pull yourself together It's difficult subject to that because it's kind of like it isn't the it isn't the case that like you just need to pull your socks up like It's it's awful because um and now like these days like there's so much more awareness about Anxiety and and panic and stuff and like mental health, you know, like and it's such a sort of like, you know Like stop the stigma and so like People kind of know not to say to people like oh, it's all in your head or like you need to pull your socks up sort of thing And so but it almost has like a slight There's maybe a bit controversial But it can have like a slight detrimental effect by sort of being like how dare you tell me It's just my attitude or my you know, like the The power is within me to sort of like stop it because you know, of course I would stop it if I could do and it's just like Unfortunately, they're like they're not right in in what they're saying But like there is an element of what they're saying that is like I don't realize they're right, but they kind of are Do you know what I mean? Yes, I totally get that Of saying that and it is when you say it's controversial it is it really when you talk about this people get really hot about it And usually it's whether it's not it's a doctor or a caregiver and some sort or just a significant other in your life A husband wife whatever a girlfriend a friend a parent a sibling, you know, get it together It's all in your head what I try and explain is I think the reason why people we get told it's all in our heads Or just why doesn't he pull up a sock? So you have to fight this old man, you know, like she says because What we're dealing with really are phobic responses and a phobia is irrational So when you are terrified that that racing heart means that you're having a heart attack or dying That is an irrational fear. I mean you have to accept that the fear our fears are pretty much irrational and The person looking at that your wife your husband your best friend whoever it is your doctor Understands that your heart is racing, but they know that you're not in danger So what I think that why doesn't he pull up a socks up or just get it together You got to pull yourself together or it's all in your head is really just I try and use it as a positive So I think of it as like if you have children They may decide one day that they don't want to go to bed because there's a monster under the bed And they are that's real fear for that kid. They don't want to go to bed because there's something hiding in the closet Now as a parent you know that there's nothing in the closet You know there's nothing under the bed So you try to comfort and support as best you can but sooner or later You have to make the kid go to bed and understand only through experience that look there's really nothing in the closet And so when people tell us that it's all in our heads Or that we have to pull ourselves together or that we should just you know fight it and get it together I think all they're really saying is that there's no monster under the bed So that's all they mean they they don't they're not saying it right But as opposed to being pissed off that somebody tells you that just consider that that person that normal person Doesn't have the same irrational fears that we do So they're just pointing out that they don't they see your fear, but they don't see the danger So why are you afraid? That's all they're pointing out. I think so try and take that negative What a lot of people take as a negative and turn it into a positive let that person sort of Guide you a little bit like oh, okay So I'm being irrational because they're not scared of that so like and maybe I'm you know Like maybe it is a sort of fear thing. I'm working with it That's why I try to do with this because you are right people react very emotionally to this whole idea of just just get yourself together It's all in your head kind of thing and and she does talk about it near the end of the chapter You know that whole you have to fight it you have to pull yourself together And I don't know for what it's worth That has helped me over the time when people tell me those things I try and understand that they're just trying to show me They're just they're just pointing out the irrational aspect of what's going on in my head So, you know when you're on the plane if you're a little bit nervous, I don't like to fly So if I'm nervous, I'll look at the flight attendants if they're fine, then all right I guess I got to be fine, too. So it's that looking nervous. Yeah, you can definitely be Exactly. I'm going for the flotation device, but generally speaking. So anyway that that for what it's worth That's what I tend that's how I tend to interpret that whole pull yourself together You know, yeah, your socks up thing I don't do anything else that you wanted to add to that it's I can't really think what I can't actually remember what it is that she's saying and Oh, I think it's just maybe it just makes the sufferer feel more isolated and stuff because The friends and stuff are just telling them come on. It's all in your head You know, they can't possibly understand what the other person's going through if they can sort of say that which So because she's at this point she's still like describing how the person becomes like more and more Like, you know, how they suffer more and more and I think like that isolations like quite a big part of it that like There's this big void between like normal people and then you the sufferer like because just everything's so huge and massive and terrible And if other people are saying like oh come on, you know, it's not that bad pull your socks up You know, don't worry about it Then you just like well, then you've absolutely got zero idea of what i'm going through if you can say that, you know And so it just creates this big sort of like void and the sufferer just feels even more Like alone with it. I guess which is a big part of of the sort of, you know alone or hopeless Yeah, hopeless everybody's telling me I should just pull myself together and I can't and she even says Um You know, then you wind up going from doctor to doctor in some instances looking for the doctor who's not going to tell you that But that's never gonna happen. This is really nothing wrong And she actually says to healthy people this history of going doctor to doctor May sound all too childish and stupid They think why doesn't he pull up his socks and get on with his work and forget all this nonsense Because to them it is They don't understand it. They they they don't have share. There's a rational fear So I think you're right that it I think especially in those days as well there's a lot more awareness of like Sort of anxiety and stuff and like mental health sort of stuff these days So people might not be so sort of judgmental. Well, I don't know maybe they are I don't know Maybe they're just not so outward about it I think especially in those days like it would have just been like what do you mean, you know And I think especially in those days. Yeah, and back when she wrote this book We were still in that era where I think it was more attributed to women than men and A man could never admit that they were going through this kind of problem. It was really difficult, but So she talks about that and then she she goes on to talk specifically about fighting I think this is a big part of the chapter two. She talks about fighting it I like what she says the sufferer from nervous illness is neither fool nor coward Which is which is good. I think really good But but it was often a remarkably brave person who fights his breakdown to the best of his ability with commendable although often Misdirected courage and I think that that statement at the beginning of the subheading call fighting is is huge Because it really encapsulates The misdirected effort that I think we play in especially in the beginning Yeah, definitely. I mean you see people like They're like, you know, I fight this every day, you know And like if you had to go through what I go through would bring you to your knees and so like, you know, like because you just to sort of stay Alive even though you wouldn't actually die or anything. Do you know what I mean? It feels like you're exerting so much to just stay as Normal as you possibly feel that you can, you know, like and so you like fighting this every day You know, like to do anything is just like such a massive deal That so you you are you do have a lot of like fighting you and you're You're fighting it and you're fighting it But actually like it's just all that energy is actually going in The wrong direction and it's not getting you better. It's actually like keeping you Ill She literally says that it should get further down a few more paragraphs down. She says You know, he reasons that if he cannot become himself again by fighting, how else can he Fighting his natural is his natural defense the only weapon he knows so he fights even harder But the harder he fights the worse he becomes and and that really You know and so many people start that way. We're trying to attack our symptoms Which is misdirected and then we begin to just try and fight And I say this all the time if you're having a problem getting to the supermarket Or to pick up your kids from school or getting to work because of anxiety or panic You know and and you just white knuckle your way You know through that supermarket trip fighting it all the way You made it and you know you did it and the fight was there and you're exhausted But tomorrow you'll have to fight it again because fighting it isn't the way to go Yeah, you can't that's the mist. I made that mistake honestly for years like probably about 15 years I made that mistake. I white knuckled my way through my whole life, you know, and I'm still doing like crazy stuff like And like traveling on my own and just doing all sorts of stuff that like even like lots of normal people Would sort of like find a bit scary or something. I was just like no, I'll do it But I was having just the most horrendous time the whole time through it and I'd just be like This is this must just be my life forever now, you know, like this is just how my life is I just have to it's just more difficult than for anyone else because I'm having like People don't realize that just meeting my friend down the pub is like just a hugest deal for me But yeah, I still do it but it's horrific and If only I'd realized I mean like 15 years ago that like I didn't actually need to do that It just life becomes so much easier when you start fighting But I think that is so true and it's but it is exactly the opposite of what we would think we should do here And that's what makes is so difficult for people to grasp It's it literally is doing the exact opposite of what every cell in your body is asking you to do And fighting it everybody makes a mistake though. You made it. I made it everybody makes it So if you are listening or watching right now And that is the situation that you're in and you maybe you're watching at the end of the day And you had to white knuckle your way and grit your teeth and sweat and shake and Near panic your way through an entire day at work And this is the way every day goes for you. You're this is the way everybody tries it. So it's there's no shame You're not alone, right? It's a very common thing And she does it dress it here that the harder you fight the worst it does seem to get Because you're only adding to the cycle So we'll talk about you know, she does talk about the floating and accepting thing in future chapters But she mentions it here. So again, I think as we go along there's a lower We're jamming a lot into a short little episode here But it's just important to if you have the book and you're following through just just reread it again Maybe after you listen to us and just just get a grip on what she's talking about because just understanding it and knowing it Understanding what's going on is a lot is a huge first step And then she talks about From there she does talk about sedation, you know, we were talking about before we went live that using the word sedation And she talks about, you know, collapse Which I think would be that total collapse at hospitalization nervous breakdown thing So she's talking about sedation, you know at some point people will when she wrote the book it was 1962 So take that with you know into account Nothing is working and now I'm just going to be sedated and we were talking about this before we went on the air I think yeah, I'm not sure what drugs they were using in those days I have the feeling that it was more the benzodiazepines like valium and you know Stuff like that rather than the antidepressants that people sort of tend to get prescribed as long term Thinks these days. I think I think that's like, I don't know. I just know what my nan took when she was ill And I think that's true. I think that's true So, yeah, like I don't think even I'm just I'm not sure how long antidepressants have been around But I don't I'm sure that they weren't treating like anxiety with them back then so I don't know But so I think when she talks about sedation, she's she's kind of talking about like Taking benzodiazepines, I think Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what she's talking about. I mean, we looked at that The first benzos were introduced in the early 60s when About the time this book was written and there were sedatives before that too But I think the difference is she talks about the doctor prescribing sedation At this point where the person is fighting and is exhausted and doesn't know where to go And they've been doctor to doctor to doctor and there's a difference now because I mean, it's very common now where somebody will go to their very first doctor visit Even to just a general practitioner Describe some basic level of anxiety issues and leave with a prescription for valium or Right, you know I think especially in Outside of the UK anyway, because we've got like the national health like where it's all free So like they try not to give out drugs as much as possible Whereas I think if you like in like private healthcare like in america and stuff It's like the more drugs the more money. So I don't know how it works. It's a tough topic We can talk about that one day, but it sort of is I mean I at the risk of catching heat I I have my own opinions on that but So she talks about sedation is almost like a last ditch effort to get somebody in peace and really at least here in the US We're giving it out Almost at the first visit, you know, like, oh, you know, it's your grandma died You're feeling anxiety or you're feeling you're bam. Here's a prescription. So this is the pattern We've gotten into here in the last say 30 to 35 years So she talks about it as a last resort Writing in australia in the 60s whereas now sedation Or use of the benzos has become Really almost the first line of defense at least here in the u.s. Which I think is a shame. It shouldn't be Because all it's doing is just addressing the symptoms And then she goes on to talk about she has a heading called doctor. He has collapsed Which I which is so dramatic, you know, doctor. He has collapsed I can hear her say it too if you've listened to her audio box that voice that she had Um, you know, she kind of talks about that. I guess you get to the end of the rope You just can't take any more and it's just this collapse this Literally a complete nervous and physical breakdown where you end up hospitalized and That from whatever we want to call that a nervous breakdown exhaustion Whatever it happens to be. Yeah, you see a lot of the time in the I mean everyone's probably got their sort of like And that was like rock bottom, you know, like when they were just like, I've got to do something about this because I've just Like, yeah, I've been in the hospital because I thought I was dying or you know, like or like I don't know people just like get to that point where they're just like Literally, I can't carry on, you know, like something I do remember, you know, I could I don't mind saying this too. I remember getting to a point When I really got really it was around 1996 or so and going to my family doctor who gave me the old If you were diabetic, you take insulin speech and he prescribed me an antidepressant and I took it And I remember at that visit though, he said, well, this is going to take it could take two weeks or so before you feel this I remember looking at the guy and saying if you could just put me in a hospital right now and knock me out for two weeks I would take it so getting just to the end of the rope like I cannot go another day this way That she does at least acknowledge that people can get to that point So this isn't a hospitalization because you think you're having a heart attack This is what she talks about hospitalization because you just cannot deal with the anxiety And the the impact that's having and the fear all the time and you just want to go into that collapse She talks about it very in an old-fashioned kind of way, but nonetheless She does she does mention it. I think that's what she's talking about here That's it's the difference between running to the ER because you think you're dying and and literally just not being able to Carry on any longer. I mean, I remember I think like my probably like Point of that was I mean I didn't go to the hospital or the doctor or anything like that. I just remember Um, I was stood at like my Oh, because I was like 11 at the time when I was stood in my house And my dad was just like and I just couldn't leave the house and my dad was like look I'm gonna stand at the garden gate. It's like 20 feet away in my own garden You know and he's just like just come and stand with me at the garden gate And I was like at the door like and I actually couldn't Physically it felt like put my feet outside of the door and he was just like but why not and I was just like I don't know but I just can't and when I realized I couldn't literally step outside of my front or my back door Do you know what I mean? I was just like this is really bad like this is as bad as it gets, you know Like I physically well, I could physically leave the house, but I just couldn't actually bring myself To physically leave the house. I can relate. It's just like that's bad And I think a lot of people listening and watching you could completely relate to that. Yeah, that feels like yeah So it doesn't have to be like a collapse like a physical collapse or like you end up in the hospital Something it can just be like that literal point of this like I'm not functioning as a person anymore because I can't do This or that or you know, like it sort of just gets to that point. Yeah, no, I agree And you know, so I think um, we're up to 40 minutes at this point. So I would like to do Just do one more kind of the end of the chapter. It is we're almost near the end But she does mention the afraid being afraid to admit fear Okay, I'm not sure I have not I don't think I've encountered anybody or very few people who would insist that they're not afraid I think everybody think I would be one of those people that you would insist that you were not afraid. Yeah, I'm not afraid Interesting, okay Really and then like yeah, and then I think like Eventually I'd be like, maybe I like yeah, I don't know I just would have probably resisted the the idea that like I was afraid of you know, how I felt just I'm not afraid. You've got no idea. It's just this feeling It's not fear. It's just like this, you know feel that I'm scared of it. I'm not scared of anything You know that sort of thing that's super interesting because I That's very interesting. I don't know if I've ever encountered anybody who's who described it that way Well, no, I'm not afraid Yeah, I'm not afraid of this and she mentions it that you know being afraid to she talks about one person One woman that she was working with I guess personally where she didn't want to hear the word fear So she she dr. Weeks had to use the word tension To for months to try and get her to the point where she really understood like oh, I guess yeah, I'm afraid Um But again being because we would drive this is that we are afraid of how we feel We are afraid of some perceived consequence because of how we feel it never happens And fear is so much a part of this But if you are the type of person that refuses to admit that you are afraid and that's honestly bogus because You know, I'm as goofball like alpha douchebag as anyone and I'm happy to admit that Yes, I was afraid to walk out of the house like fear is would drove it. So You know, it is what it is. So she does address it. So if you're that type of person It's definitely worth at least thinking about that. You got to sort of embrace the fear because it is Yeah, it's just making you realize that it's the because I think for me like when I was saying I couldn't step out the door I wouldn't have realized it because I was afraid to step out the door. I just Honestly, it was like a feeling. I just couldn't even tell you what it was But if you'd said oh, it's because you're scared of someone scared of stepping outside of the door Of course, I'm not scared. I'm just I just can't you know And so it was kind of like a bit of a gap of I was young as well So, you know, it's like a sort of gap of understanding there But yeah, so I think I find that quite interesting very interesting Yeah, it's funny because that was a throwaway for me when I looked at it But now that I reread it just now as we're talking You know that actually may be a thing for some people if you're you have to kind of embrace the fact that fear is Part of this it just is deal with it get over that. That's not embarrassing people fear Fear was built into us to keep us alive. So it's okay In this case the fear is misguided and misdirected and happens at the wrong time But it's okay to be afraid and fear does drive this a lot. So You gotta remember i'm british and it's from the sort of keep calm carry on, you know, that's that that's tip Exactly like we're not afraid of anything And I have to say just as a bit of humor I don't know for those of us listening in the states that accent when somebody tells you to just pull it together And that british accent. Oh my goodness. There can't be anything more annoying than that So you guys gotta you have the market cornered on that for sure, but we love you anyway So anyway, um, that is pretty much the end of the chapter. It is a super long chapter So we we've been at it for twice as long as we usually are if hopefully you hung in this far I would say reread the chapter and just like I said, I think the takeaway here is just understand What's going on use the chapter to just help explain exactly what's going on with you It's there's there's no hints here for cure or anything or recovery that's coming down the road, but The next chapter is the next chapter is the cure So come in next day, which we're trying I think we're being pretty good. We're trying to do one a week I think we skipped a week here in there But the next one she the chapter is called cure of the commonest kind of nervous illness So that's when she does start talking about her strategy, which is sounds a whole lot like modern CBT So we'll we'll get into that but um and in the meanwhile, of course If there are questions comments or whatever if you're watching on youtube comment in the comment section under wherever it is on your phone or wherever Or you can get me at twitter at that anxiety guy facebook that anxiety guy We actually had a couple of questions, believe it or not. I answered some questions in the next week. Yes, we did Somebody asked the question and maybe at one point we'll have to do like a q&a session Somebody asked the question, which I thought was really good. I'll bring it up here Do you think it's possible to recover just with this book? What do you say? Well, I think if you Understand enough then yeah, like I think one of the hardest things to do with this sort of method is to remember when you're in the middle of Panic kin or being anxious about like what you're supposed to do because your logic tends to sort of like go out the window um So it's handy if there's like someone else that can like remind you Of like what you're supposed to be doing, you know, I mean like it doesn't have to be a doctor It can just be like your husband or your friend or your parent or something Do you know? I mean just someone to sort of like work through the method with I would say um But I think you could like from this book alone and yeah, I think so I don't think I actually got better from anything else other than this in the book, right? Yeah, I think I mentioned maybe like a couple of other books But like they don't say anything that this book doesn't you know It means I kind of just pieced it all together and was just like oh and it's actually all in this book in the first place That's that was exactly my answer like if you fully embrace what's going on in the book and the concepts and and you really buy into it I think this book alone would be enough to get you 90 percent there probably, you know, maybe more. I don't know but uh So anyway, that was an interesting question that I found that was on the youtube on the youtube channel But I'll keep an eye out and otherwise if you have questions comments angry rants, whatever it is send them this way And um the hate mail The hate mail don't send hate mail to Holly. She means well and um, we will see you guys in the next chapter I guess so come on back Cool. See you I have to stop the recording awkward moment while I stop the recording ready three two one. Bye