 We listen to the earth with our ears, with our senses, through the powers of observation. Every culture has its own way of listening. One of our ways of listening is through quantitative science. So I'm not going to discard science. It is a way that we can be intimate with the other, to be intimate with nature. Unfortunately, we have used the knowledge that we've gained through this relationship that we call science in order to dominate and control and to turn nature toward our short-term, narrow purposes. But it doesn't have to be used that way. Other cultures had other ways of listening. And we have to understand that once you set that intention and adhere to that intention to really listen, then results will come. Our communication will happen. And we can draw on other cultures' ways of listening and understand that if they're coming from that place, from the place of knowing nature as a living, intelligent subject, they will have knowledge that is precious. Whether it comes through listening to the winds or observing the ripples on a pond, the kogi, I think they observe the way that bubbles come from these alpine ponds and they know what's happening all over the earth. I can't explain it. But I know that every culture that is in that place of humility and observation will have precious knowledge about how to participate in creation, how to take care of life around us and to be cared for by life around us. So if we come with our science from that perspective, we too will gain precious knowledge that can be disseminated and shared and cross-pollinated with other sources of knowledge. But it's not better than what has come from other cultures and traditions.