 The next item of business today is a member's business debate on motion number 11150 in the name of Joan McAlpine on meal makers tackle malnutrition in frail older people. This debate will be concluded without any questions being put and I would invite those members who wish to speak in this debate to press their request to speak buttons now or as soon as possible. I now call on Joan McAlpine to open the debate, Ms McAlpine, if you are ready or seven minutes please. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I first came across meal makers when I attended the AGM of the Charity Food Train in Dumfries this year. It is a project funded by the Scottish Government and the Ranked Foundation and delivered by Food Train and is one of the best examples of a preventative care initiative that I have encountered in my time as an MSP. Essentially, meal makers means that the cook makes an extra portion of what they would normally cook for dinner and delivers it to the diners home nearby. It connects people in the same neighbourhood and strengthens communities as well as helping individuals. A great many people love to cook, but it is not much fun if you have nobody to appreciate the end results. Yet, for every keen cook, there is an individual who would love a hot meal but who cannot manage to cook. Meal makers pair up the two initially through a website, which has profiles of cooks and diners showing that interests and tastes in food. The project is very much in the spirit of the parent charity. I have always been a great admirer of Food Train and I am far from alone in that respect. The charity, which began in Dumfries in Galloway but is now rolled out across Scotland, was founded in a very simple principle. The many older people find it hard to shop, particularly as the local butcher, baker and greengrocer have closed and the nearest supermarket is only accessible by a car. Food train began by taking orders for shopping and then delivering the order via volunteers who would stay and unpack and chat, hence providing a point of contact for clients who were housebound and isolated. The idea of meal makers grew out of conversations struck up during those deliveries. Quite a few of the older people who ordered messages simply did not get around to cooking the food. A failure to cook is often a cause of malnutrition in the elderly and meal makers addresses it very directly. You could say that it facilitates a natural human instinct, which is neighbourliness. When I was growing up, people looked out for and shopped for elderly housebound neighbours. They often handed in soup, baking or a cooked meal on occasion and I remember my own grandmother widdled in her fifties cooking for others well into her seventies. However, due to social mobility and perhaps our modern reticence, we often do not know our neighbours and we hesitate to offer help lest it is rejected, and conversely those who could do with a bit of help can be too shy to ask. Meal makers overcome this difficulty using social media and you can check out their site at www.mealmakers.org.uk or their very popular Facebook site. Of course, many of those who would benefit from a meal do not use the internet and they are recruited in more traditional ways through GPs, district nurses, social workers and leafletting in posters in local shops. I should here give credit to the pupils of Harris academy in Dundee who helped to make the pilot there a very great success by leafletting their local area. It is a truly pan-Scottish project, piloted in Dundee but co-ordinated from a hub in Springburn and Glasgow. When I visited that hub and talked to Emma Stewart and Danielle, the staff who I believe are in the gallery today, I got an even clearer picture of Meal makers and its beneficial effects. To begin with, Meal makers cooks have to go through a basic food hygiene course and are, of course, PVG checked for security. They are then linked up with a frail elderly person looking for someone to cook. The pair first speak on the phone to make sure that they get on well and feel comfortable before going ahead with the arrangements. Some diners will insist on plain food like mints and tatties and others are more adventurous and are linked with more experimental cooks. Quite often, a friendship develops and the diner will stay for a chat. Indeed, the pilot agrate many of the cooks were students keen to give something to the community through volunteering and it was really heartening to hear about the cross-generational friendships being established through the simple act of cooking and delivering a meal. Maybe we shouldn't be surprised because food is a way of socialising for all of us and has been since the beginning of time, really, if we want to break ice, we break bread. That goes back several millennia. There is, of course, a very serious benefit. In some cases, illness, frailty and social isolation can cause malnutrition. On my visit to Springburn, I heard some dreadful stories and one concerned a house-bound bereaved man who had literally existed on jam sandwiches until someone directed help his way. It is now almost 10 years since the recipe for life project was commissioned by the Scottish Government. That research aimed to find better ways to support older people in Scotland to eat well and found a number of social and psychological factors that had an impact on dietary intake. In particular, eating with others was an important way to ensure good nutrition, as was cooking for others. The research also found that having a good quality meal cooked by someone else encouraged the fraily elderly to eat. For a number of years now, elderly people admitted to hospital have been screened for signs of malnutrition, as is the case in other parts of the UK. In one pan UK research project that covered the four years to 2011, 29 per cent of the elderly admitted to hospital were found to be malnourished, but it varied by country. England had the highest level of malnourishment at 30 per cent. Scotland was lost at 24 per cent. Of course, it is good to be ahead, but I take little comfort from that one-in-four figure. That is why I applaud this project in particular, along with the other work that Food Train does, to feed those who, for complex health, psychological and social reasons, cannot feed themselves. I wish meal makers well in their forthcoming official launch on 17 December, and I look forward to reaching cooks and diners in every corner of our country. Dr Elaine Murray, to be followed by Dr Nanette Milne. Thank you, Presiding Officer. First of all, I congratulate Joan McAlpine in securing the debate. Indeed, we have debated the work of Food Train in Parliament before, and it is very good to have another opportunity to highlight their work. It is a charity that is supporting older people, which started out in Dumfries and Galloway as a project identified by the Dumfries and Galloway Elderly Forum. It has now expanded its services to six local authority areas. Services provided by Food Train include the delivery of groceries, as Joan McAlpine said, to older people who have difficulty in doing their shopping. Food Train Extra provides help and support with a wide variety of household tasks and supported independent living. Food Train Friends is a befriending service that may include trips out, home visits and phone calls. There is also an outreach library service where volunteers drop off and pick up books for people who are unable to use the library service due to poor health, disability, frailty or poor mobility. Mealmakers is an expansion of that. It is based on something called the casserole club, which seems to have taken off across the United Kingdom over the last couple of years. There are now thousands of people across volunteers across the country getting involved. As Joan McAlpine described, volunteer cooks prepare meals in their own homes, often with an extra portion for an older person whom the casserole club referred to as diners, in the community who is less able to cook a good nutritional meal for themselves. It does not take any extra time or effort on behalf of the cook, though in many clubs the cook will take the meal around to the diner and spend some time with it or will invite the diner to come into their own home to eat the meal. Indeed, in their website there are many heartwarming stories of friendships developing between the cooks and diners to the advantages of both. Many of us who have in the past cooked for larger families, my three children are all grown up and in their own homes, it becomes quite difficult to scale down to cooking for two people or for one people. What tends to happen is that additional portions in the freezer which are to be eaten later at some time, my husband always says, I'll eat those when you're in Parliament, and then he tries to identify what they are. In fact, one time he thought he was having chilli con carne. It turned out to be a plum crumble, which I think he found somewhat disappointing. That what tends to happen is that things are sitting in the freezer and they end up being thrown away. This Parliament has strongly supported the zero waste campaign, love food, hate waste, but it's the case that something like a billion pounds worth of food is thrown away every year, so far better to share those with others who would need and appreciate a good meal. It's not only about nutrition, because in most cultures, the sharing of food is also a statement about caring and affection. We take pleasure in preparing food for people we care about, and that's why, often for a person on their own, even if they are a good cook, it's quite difficult to prepare some good meal for yourself. It's more difficult to be motivated because we enjoy preparing food for other people in our family. We actually argue about who cooks a Christmas dinner, because that act of cooking a meal for a family is very important to all of us. We also enjoy food cooked for us by family and friends. Our family and friends don't have to be master chefs for us to really enjoy a meal. That side of it is also important, because we're friendships to develop between cooking and dining. Meal matters will provide not just that physical nourishment, but that social nourishment and that feeling of caring and affection and being included, which is also very important for mental health. I think that that is an excellent initiative. I also look forward to it being rolled out across Scotland in the future. I'm also grateful to Joan McAlpine for lodging this motion and bringing it to the chamber this afternoon. I just noticed today that I'm not actually a signature to the motion, but that was an accidental omission, because I do fully support what it says. I confessed until preparing for the debate that I wasn't aware of food train in Scotland, but I was interested to learn of its history, which, as we know, began in Dumfries in 1995 following a community survey of older people that found many of them struggling with their weekly grocery shopping. A partnership of local shops and volunteers was formed, and food train began making deliveries of fresh groceries to older people in need with the help of local volunteers and shops. A scheme, as we know, expanded across Dumfries and Galloway then into other parts of Scotland. Services offered include food train, a shopping delivery service, food train extra help with household chores, food train friends of a friending service and now meal makers, the subject of this afternoon's debate. Meal makers is a new project currently being piloted in my own region in Dundee, which encourages people to cook an extra meal that can be given to isolated older people living in their communities. It's aimed at reducing food poverty, improving diets and breaking down the barriers that lead to loneliness. As we know, it uses an online platform to connect volunteers with older people who might benefit from the initiative. I pay tribute to the Scottish Government and the rank foundation for providing £60,000 of funding, and I recognise the inspiration behind the scheme coming from the casserole club, which originated, I believe, in areas of south-east England. The scheme should bring benefits beyond the nutritional goals that it strives to achieve. I was a great fan of the WRVS Meals on Whales service, which brought a hot meal to many elderly people living on their own once or twice a week, delivered to them and served by a volunteer. I don't actually know if the service still exists, but it was greatly appreciated by its recipients. The Meals on Whales does still exist, but there is a major problem in that, because of cost restrictions, many local authorities are now giving frozen meals that are microwavable. Although that may provide similar nutrition for those who can work a microwave, it has actually reduced what Joan McAlpine was referring to, which increases social isolation. I was, in my speech, going to ask the minister to take a very firm look at that whole area, because it is not about food only. Dr Milne. Thank you. I have to say that Dr Simpson has just stolen the chunk of my speech. As I say, I wasn't sure that the service did exist for the very reasons that have been articulated. The ready meal was very welcome, because it delivered personally, bringing many an elderly person the regular human contact that was missing from their lives. For some, it was the only time that they saw people outside their home, and it relieved the monotony of a lonely and isolated existence. The replacement of those hot meals by frozen meals should be delivered several at a time, but it does save money. The mental loss of that human contact, which in my mind, as it was with Dr Simpson, was a retrograde step. I therefore think that meal makers will be a very welcome and valuable service to today's increasing population of older people who face the isolation of being housebound and often without any outside contact beyond the NHS. It should, if successful, contribute to overcoming the very serious problem of malnutrition in our increasingly elderly population. Meals on wheels not only benefited the recipient, but also the volunteer who delivered the meals. I had a friend who used to deliver for WRBS, and she got immense pleasure from her conversations with her clients. I have no doubt that this will also be the case for those who get involved with meal makers. Indeed, I could see myself volunteering for this once I have more time in my hands. I am sure that there must be many people like myself who, when they cook, prepare more than they need for one meal and freeze what is left over for another occasion. Just last weekend, I prepared a pork chop dish using 12 shops, and the 10 left over after our meal are now in my freezer in packs of two. It would be no effort and very little expense for a couple of those shops to go to someone who, because of frailty, cannot get to the shops and is no longer able to cook. I would imagine that the Dundee pilot to be a success and look forward to it being rolled out to the other local authorities areas where the food train currently operates. If it proves itself, I would like to see it rolled out right across Scotland. I know several people in my own area who would almost certainly be interested in supporting it. It carries to me, too, that such a scheme could possibly be attractive to young volunteers, for instance, teenage pupils learning how to cook at school. Much of the food that they cook nowadays is very appetising. I would imagine that a number of pupils would be very interested in using their newfound skills to improve the diets of older housebound people in their neighbourhood, helping to improve their nutrition and getting the benefit of personal contact with someone from an earlier generation who could enlighten them about their lives past and present. I am quite excited to learn about the meal makers programme and how it develops. I hope that Joan McAlpine will keep us informed about its progress. Once again, thank you to the member for raising the subject in Parliament. I now call on Sandra White to be followed by Dr Richard Simpson. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I thought that perhaps you were going for a hat trick there, and Dr Simpson could have came next. I am just playing Sandra White MSP, but I am the convener of the cross-party group in older people ageing. The subject comes up pretty often in their cross-party groups. This morning was my first meeting at the Equal Opportunities Committee, where they had looked at older people and the discrepancies between other people in society. The subject came up in relation to older men. I will touch on that later on. Can I congratulate my colleague Joan McAlpine for securing this debate, meal makers, which is, as Joan's motion says, an innovative new project, but also a very welcome and important one, which sets out to tackle a very real concern and that is of malnutrition amongst her frail elderly people. It is an issue that we may find hard to talk about. We may recognise some aspects. We know many elderly people, particularly those living in their own, with limited access to transport, social hubs and the busy world. We live in nothing, Joan has touched on that in society. It includes family and friends. Sometimes it is very difficult with the busy lives that people lead to even go out to be able to visit their relatives or see their relatives. For the elderly people in the house, it is difficult for them to go out and engage with the world around them. I congratulate the original food train—I know that there are people in the gallery from there—for recognising the issue of, first of all, isolation in older people and setting up the service in 1995, along with volunteers and local shops. It is a real community issue in a real community hub. It delivered fresh groceries and went on to provide home support services. When I read that, I thought that it was wonderful that, if people are older, elderly people cannot perhaps put up curtains or do simple jobs like that, they can call on the service and that makes life a lot better for everyone's concerns. Now they have moved on to enabling older people to enjoy healthy meals. I know that this is a private project that has been mentioned before, which will run for two years. At the moment, it is up and running in Dundee, but I would hope that it can be rolled out across Scotland, as others have said, and that it will be incorporated into existing projects, which I know that we all have, in our constituencies that are provided by other groups, which might not have went this extra mile or not been able to do that. I certainly know that in my own area in Glasgow, Kelvin, we have many groups that work with elderly people and Glasgow People's Welfare Association, for instance, for 66 years. It has been running a fantastic project. Perhaps we would be able to be incorporated into that, and maybe we would know how to go about it. I am not asking the ministers to give us a definitive answer today, but it is something that I think would be interesting to all the other groups there. Many older people live in their own—they lose interest in cooking. I certainly know that my mum lived in her own—was the last thing she wanted to do was to make a meal for herself. Always have been used to a large family in cooking for them, and sometimes they are simply not able to do that. That brings me back to the subject that we were discussing in the Equal Opportunities Committee this morning, particularly in the case of older men who have relied on it. It has been part of the culture for them that their wives would cook the meals, and they have never been able to cook a meal. I remember that one time, one was phoned up, and it was one of those helplines that they thought it was over Christmas, and it was actually a silver line. They assumed that they were phoning because they were lonely. They were phoning to find out that they gave a big, long explanation. What they wanted to know was how did they cook a chicken? This was at Christmas time, so there are many older men who have not been used to looking after themselves and obviously miss out on a good nutritional meal. Thank you very much, Joan, for bringing forward this debate today. I am very pleased to have been able to speak in the debate, and I look forward to it, as everyone else said, rolling out over Scotland. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. Thank you. I now call on Dr Simpson, after which I will move to closing speech from the minister. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate and congratulate Joan McAlpine on securing the chamber time. Can I begin by correcting an omission from the debate the other day by welcoming the minister, Maureen Watt, to her new position? I hope that she will use her influence and the fact that she has previously experienced as a minister to press forward on the issues that Joan McAlpine has raised in terms of developing social capital assets that seek inclusion of older people, because I think that that is really important. As Joan McAlpine said, 24 per cent of people admitted to hospital are suffering from malnutrition, and although that is Scotland in a better position, again ahead of the rest of the UK, as we are in so many things, nevertheless it is, as Joan McAlpine said, a matter for continuing concern. The Scottish Government report in December 2019 looked at nutrition required by an older person and found that it was essentially the same as that of a younger person, but it is important for the diet of the older person to be more micronutrient dense in order to prevent the development of nutrient deficiencies that can exacerbate health problems that may arise in the ageing process. Unfortunately, the act of providing a balanced and nutritional diet can become increasingly difficult as people age, and FoodTrain seeks to address this problem through its programme, which I won't go into because Elaine Murray has already covered that and we have had a previous debate on it. However, the meal makers based on the casserole club, which has been going for some time in England, is certainly something that is very worthwhile and allows selfless community volunteers who enjoy cooking to assist their older neighbours. By all accounts, the programme is already a success and it is working well in its two months of operation in Dundee. FoodTrain, I gather, intends to try and spread meal makers to other parts of Scotland in the near future. We have heard the other details about parcel delivery and the rest. There are other examples of delivering services across Scotland that also work with vulnerable people to educate them about preparing and cooking healthy meals in my own area of Mid Scotland and Fife, which is a great example led by Clackmanager Healthcare Lives. Their work with vulnerable people has been transformational for some of the participants, all of whom are vulnerable people. In addition to that important service, Clackmanager Healthcare Lives provides a community food development worker who gives guidance and support to members of the community in relation to food, shopping, budgeting, cooking and general dietary advice. It is this sort of development of community, spirit and community social asset that is rewarding for all those who are engaged in it but does help the more vulnerable members of our community. If I can add that in Stirling, where prepared meals at home provide people who have been referred based on an assessment of need, this is a programme run by Appatito that has had positive feedback from its clients since it began in 2012. There are many other examples across the country and it would be good to have a mapping exercise that actually did indicate where all these are. It may be the Government already working on this, we will hear from the minister in a minute. Presiding Officer, in the short time that we have in these debates, I think that it is not possible to cover all the issues. I think that we should possibly try to have a debate in nutrition. We are, after all, about to pass a food standards bill and one of the elements of that is the improvement of the diet for the public. It is not just about obesity, which of course is one of the main public health challenges, but it is about this area of improving nutrition. Can I refer the minister to another example of social capital assets, not unrelated? I have the good fortune to be the patron of Trellis, which is the umbrella organisation for Scotland for Therapeutic Gardening. There are 180 projects across the country now, again providing social inclusion often for people with learning disability and mental health problems, but that includes working in allotments and producing food, which is then moved on into cooking and preparing meals. Connecting them up in a better way would be helpful. I am glad that Trellis has just been awarded £5,000 to focus on training courses on supporting children with complex needs and introducing them to therapeutic gardening. Another example is after I ran a seminar for Trellis in Fife that Fife Council is now taking gardens of elder people where they are no longer able to manage. Instead of the council coming in and just doing a basic repair work, they give these on a contract that they mediate to people who want allotments and cannot get them. They are now growing food, which they are sharing with the elderly person, which is the relevant star debate today. In conclusion, I realise that you are pressing me to finish. I hope that the Government will do a mapping exercise. I hope that it will provide time for a full debate on nutrition. If I could make one final recommendation to the minister that if she is time over Christmas—because I know that she will be very busy—she might like to read Sir John Elwidge's papers, produced under the aegis of the Carnegie Trust, called The Enabling State, because it encompasses much that is represented in the debate, which Joan McAlpine has successfully got today and for which I am very grateful. I, too, would like to thank Joan McAlpine for raising the motion on meal makers and tackling malnutrition in frail older people and also to the colleagues across the chamber for participating. I must say that, from Dr Murray's contribution, food labelling has taken on a new significance. Obviously, proper food labelling has not reached Dr Murray's household, but I would urge her over Christmas to maybe buy some food labels that stick on to packaging in the freezer. It might help her husband to get the correct thing out of the freezer. As I said, I would like to thank all members who have participated in the debate and the issues that they have raised. Dr Mill raised the point about WRVS, which used to go around delivering meals. I remember doing that as a child with my mother who did it for years and years. Things have changed and have moved on as Dr Simpson will know. That is a local authority decision to go for meals that are microwavable and things, and it is up to them to look at their priorities. I agree with him that there is an opportunity in the health, integrated health and social care community planning partnerships and now empowering communities to perhaps think about bringing that back. For example, last evening in the Parliament, the meals in the members' restaurant were prepared by school pupils, college students and others from the Queen Margaret union. I wonder what happens to meals that are prepared in our colleges. Are they perhaps just eaten by the students, but might they want perhaps to deliver them on to those people who need them? It is right for this Parliament through this debate to congratulate the food train for spearheading meal makers, which is already delivering meals and creating community spirit in Dundee by encouraging people to cook and share an extra portion of their home cooked food. I also welcome it being soon rolled out, as Joan McAlpine has said, to six other local authority areas in which the Government is supporting the project with £100,000 of funding for two years to match fund the money that Joan McAlpine mentioned, the rank foundation that we are putting in. The meal makers programme is an enterprise initiative that will directly tackle under nourishment in older people. By linking up local communities, it will not just bring immediate health benefits of a healthy meal and improve nutrition, but it also builds relationships in local neighbourhoods. It set it up as a result of the work of the older people's task force. It was following, as Dr Simpson and Dr Murray have mentioned, a study trip that they took to England on Scottish Government officials and community food and health Scotland dieticians, academics and community workers. They became aware of the casserole club in England. It was in a quick time that they made a valuable contribution to the issues around food poverty and food access. It was a result of that that meal makers established developing a heating well logic model as part of health Scotland's work to create an older people's outcomes framework and getting ministerial backing to organise. A malnutrition summit is going to take place next year. Perhaps, after that, Dr Simpson, it might be a good idea to have the debate that you mentioned on malnutrition. The Scottish Government has a focus on improving health and inequalities. Meal makers aims to improve the health of older people who lack the money, skills or support to adequately provide for themselves. By focusing on homemade meals as the best option for eating in the home, meal makers follow the same principle as the Scottish Government's new social marketing campaign, which is launching in January. The Eat Better, Feel Better campaign aims to improve cooking skills across the population with a specific target of the more deprived areas of the country. The website will have 100 recipes that are simple and affordable in order to encourage people to make homemade meals. I would also like to take this opportunity to congratulate the older people's food task force and Michelle McRindall, CEO of Food Train, who plays an active part in all that has been achieved. Malnutrition, as others have said, is a significant public health problem, negatively affecting physical health and social wellbeing. Malnutrition, in particular under nutrition, are important risk factors for older people becoming vulnerable and their independence being compromised. For some older people, a dinner for meal makers may be their only proper meal of the day. Around 1 in 10 people over 65 living in the community are malnourished or at risk of malnutrition. In recent years, malnutrition was found to affect 24 per cent of patients admitted to Scottish hospitals, with the proportion of underweight rising steeply over the age of 70 years. Malnourished older people will see their GP twice as often as those who are well nourished have a three-fold risk of hospital admission and their hospital stays will be longer. The direct costs of malnutrition are estimated to range from £5 billion for healthcare services to £13 billion for associated health and social care services. Reducing the number of underweight older people living in the community could have a substantial effect on reducing hospital admissions. A wide range of factors have been identified by older people as preventing them from leading a healthy lifestyle and linked to an increased risk of malnutrition, affordability of food difficulties in accessing food shops, decreased mobility, lack of cooking skills, as Sandra White mentioned, and the impact of major life changes and loss of motivation to eat well. We recognise that particular groups of older people may be at risk of not eating well, older men, older people in remote communities, older people living with dementia and older people from ethnic minority communities. That is why the Government supports initiatives such as meal makers and food training in providing services for some of the most vulnerable people in our communities. However, older people are not solely recipient of services and, in many cases, are major providers of services, as Nanette Mill recognised. The input that older people provide as volunteers and the opportunities that volunteering provides for increased quality of life is hugely important. The other initiative in this area is food train, which Joan McAlpine might have spoken about in a previous debate. The Scottish Government has supported food train for many years, and it is a good example of older people contributing to society and third sector involvement. The service is currently active in seven local authorities, but the older people's food task force has been engaged in looking at how to gain support to expand the model. I welcome the motion and believe that the meal makers project will help to overcome some of the social barriers that cause malnutrition, including limited transport to local shops, social isolation isolation and poverty. I wish the food train and the meal makers every success as the project develops. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I now suspend this meeting of Parliament until 2.30.