 working for you. I'm Dan Lemme who a county board chairman and co-host of this program that we tape monthly and Adam Piener, administrative coordinator is the other co-host. And on a monthly basis, we try to bring the services and departments that are bringing the services to the Schwabian County residents for county government. And this week or this month, we have with us Terry Burke, our court commissioner, and we're going to talk a little bit about the court commissioner's office and the services that you provide to the residents of Schwabian County. So Terry, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and in your position as court commissioner? Well Dan, Madison is my hometown. And in fact, I went to the University of Wisconsin. I got my undergraduate degree there. I went to law school at DePaul University in Chicago. I was hired to be an assistant district attorney in 1984. That was by Ed Stengel, who's now the circuit court judge and branch one. And as an assistant DA, I worked there for about four years and I was responsible for a lot of different types of cases. I started out in the child's board agency with support enforcement and paternity establishment. And I was also involved in everything from traffic tickets to sexual assaults, you name it. I did it at one time or another. And in 1988, I had the opportunity to apply for the job of court commissioner. And there had been no full-time court commissioner in Chicago, and prior to that, there was a family court commissioner who was contracted for by the county. And then in 1988, the county board and the judges wanted to go with a full-time commissioner and I applied for the position and I got it. So what are the qualifications for a court commissioner? Well, you have to be an attorney. You have to have at least three years of experience and you have to be in good standing with the bar. And you are appointed by the judges. So in other words, when the day comes that you're no longer want to be a court commissioner and somebody else would like to have that position. It's a matter of application. It's not an elected position. It's not an elected position. And it has to be reappointed on an annual basis. Oh, on an annual basis. So somebody, not that we're looking for competition for you, but somebody else could apply every year. I want to keep your voice down. Okay. But somebody could apply for it, you bet. But every January, the position comes up for review. And then what are the main responsibilities and missions of your department? Well, in discussing our mission, it's important to look at what the role the courts are in our society. And what the courts do is offer a form for people to come to and have their disputes resolved. We're all imperfect and disputes happen like it or not. And they've got to be resolved so people can go on with their lives and that's the function that the courts perform. So as court commissioner, I have mediation programs that I'm responsible for. So if people are involved in dispute, it can be sidetracked into mediation to see if it could perhaps be resolved without the need of any court proceeding. If it does have to go to court, then as court commissioner, I conduct certain proceedings that are delegated to me by the judges. And again, that's to keep things moving along. There was a study done by the state back in about 1993 or 1994 as to how many courts, how many judges, every county needed. And at that point, I think the recommendation for Sheboygan was seven judges. Well, that's not going to happen, obviously. It was about this time that Branch Five was created in 1994. So what various counties do is they delegate authority to court commissioners to assist the courts because they're not going to get the funding from the state to have the courts and the staffing that they would need. So what is the size of your department as far as I mean, we can go on a court and what we normally think of as a court and see the judge in the bail-off and just obviously people working in the background. Your department, what do you have in your department? Right now, as we speak today, my department consists of myself and Susan Kay, who's the assistant court commissioner, and a tape recorder. Normally, what's happened in the past is I've had a combination court reporter and legal secretary. And we're making a transition right now. For a variety of reasons, it's hard-funding court reporters. And it's a very difficult thing to do. And the last person I had feeling that position has left. And she got a job as a official court reporter in Manitowoc County. And because it's a hard position to feel like I said, we've gone the technological route and we have a tape recorder in my courtroom that we use to keep a record of what's going on. And then I'm in the process of hiring a full-time legal secretary. So when we're at full staff, there will be three people. Also, I contract with mediators to provide mediation services in family court. And Susan Kay, who is the assistant court commissioner, does mediation in small claims court. And she's really responsible for most of the goings-on in small claims. You talked a little bit a couple minutes ago about judges sending mediation cases to you and things like this. What is actually the, fortunately I've not been a user of the court system over the years. When somebody needs to use the court system, maybe it could just go a little bit of the structure of the court system so that a person knows how to go about it and what goes through the normal court system that goes through years. Well, cases that come to me are those cases that really are assigned to the judges. And the way the court system works is that every county has a circuit court with various branches. In smaller counties, like say, Forest County, for example, you just have one court. In Sheboyne County, we've got five branches. In Dane County, I think it's 18. I might be wrong on that, but it's in the teens. And they're responsible for those court actions that are filed in their circuit court. And there are various procedures people have to follow to get into court. And I get that question a lot from people. And I can't really give much legal advice. In fact, I'm prohibited by statute from giving any legal advice. And our clerk of court's office, and I know I'm digressing from your question, but they're good. I'm sure you'll get back to it. I'll get back to it, and you gotta keep me on point too. But the clerk of court's office has motion packets that people can come in and get, if they wanna represent themselves and start a court action. Usually it's done by lawyers, and if it's a complicated case, you're better off with a lawyer, I think, than representing yourself. But once the case starts, it gets appointed assigned to a judge. And what the judge does, oftentimes is then turns around and gives a lot of the early proceedings to the court commissioner to take care of, for example, end of divorce. Once a divorce has started, I will often do a temporary order hearing. And it's done within a week or two after the time a divorce has started. And at that point, things are usually pretty tense and there aren't any arrangements for the care of the kids or the custody of the kids or the responsibility for bills and that type of thing. So they come and they see me and I make what's called a temporary order just to give them some structure in their relationship while their divorce case is pending. And then once they get beyond those temporary stages, then they would go to the circuit court judge, for example, for a final hearing if it's contested. And then if they don't like the decision the judge makes and the court structures that they can go to the court of appeals and after that they can go to the state supreme court. Do you have the authority to close a case or does it always have to go to one of the circuit courts? Well, I can do stipulated divorces. And if a couple is getting divorced and they have a written agreement that falls within the general parameters of what the law would allow in a divorce situation then they can give me their papers and if it looks okay then I can grant the divorce. But if there are any issues that are contested then then I would have to go to the circuit court judge. Other cases that I would see from start to finish are really pretty limited. For example, I do initial appearances on traffic cases and if somebody gets a speeding ticket, for example, they come and see me and I ask them for their plea and if they say they plead guilty then it's over at that point. But generally the cases I see from start to finish are divorces if it's stipulated. And also I do injunction hearings for domestic abuse situations and harassment situations. So if somebody were to file a request for an injunction if there's domestic abuse or harassment then it starts with me and would finish with me unless there would be an appeal to a higher court. Every now and then Terry and I'll get together and touch base on what's happening in the county and what's happening in his court and I've sat in occasionally and I've always been so impressed with the professionalism and I know the judges in particular have been very impressed with the job you do. When we do touch base it's very interesting to hear about the broad cases that you deal with. Could you touch a little bit on the different types of cases that you'll be working with on an annual basis? I take on a wide variety of cases. Oftentimes I have to go to Memorial Medical Center in the morning because there are probable clause hearings in chapter 51 proceedings. Those are the mental commitments and I've got some numbers here. Not to bore you with statistics but I've got them. And I did 191 of those last year in the year 2001. 191 of the chapter 51 probable clause hearings. And chapter 51 for our viewers? Well if someone is having problems and perhaps the police are called and there's not a crime that's being committed but maybe somebody is threatening to harm themselves then the police will take that person into detention and take them to Memorial Medical Center. That's where those cases all begin and they'll be evaluated by a psychiatrist. And if the psychiatrist thinks that this person is in need of care and is at risk of harm to themselves then we would have a hearing. And because that person's freedom is really being infringed on by keeping at the hospital law requires that within 72 hours there has to be a review of that person staying at the hospital and that's what I do. And then if I hold that person then there has to be a final hearing within 14 days and the judge would come in and do that. So I do that, like I said, about 190 times a year. Then beyond that we've got the temporary order hearings that I mentioned earlier in divorces. It's in the 247 in last year. We talked about the stipulated divorces with Dan. I did that 162 times. BL hearings is something that I do not every morning but between Tuesday and Friday four days of the week at 11 o'clock in the morning. The people that are incarcerated from the night before out at the detention center will appear by video and we'll watch them from my courtroom room B10 of the courthouse and they'll be at the detention center about three miles away and we'll conduct a bail hearing. And again that's on Tuesdays through Fridays on Mondays the circuit court judge will do those. The injunction hearings I mentioned earlier. Last year I did 100 domestic abuse injunctions and this I'm sorry, last year I did 62 harassment injunctions. We also do initial appearances in paternity cases. Then after the initial appearance if there are genetic tests that are ordered and they'll come back and they'll see me and we'll talk about how we can get the case resolved and that's called a pretrial conference, I do those. And it's a pretty varied day Adam. Keeps you on your toes, it's a lot of fun. And I'm sure our viewers now have a better feel for just the diverse issues that you're dealing with and the challenges there. As you go throughout the year, what cases do you find to be more routine? I know the numbers represent that a little bit but what do you find to be a little bit more routine versus which cases are the most interesting or rewarding to you? Well the routine cases are probably the initial appearances in traffic ordinances. And again if somebody gets a speeding ticket or a defective tail lamp type of ticket, that type of thing then on Wednesdays at 1.30 they'll come in and see me and I'll ask them for their play of guilt here, not guilty. When I first started, if somebody wanted to make a statement and make a pitch for an amendment of the ticket, I was more than happy to listen to them. And then after a whole afternoon of hearing about all these defective speedometers, I came to the conclusion it probably wasn't the right thing to do. Because it took all afternoon and it finally came to the conclusion that there aren't many really good reasons for speeding. So if somebody comes in and plays not guilty, I will just send their case right off to the DA or the city attorney so that they can talk to the city attorney or the district attorney about their speeding ticket and maybe they can get the batteries out there at the pretrial conference. So that tends to be pretty routine. That's pretty cut and dried. As far as what's most interesting, not to be redundant, but a lot of what I do is very interesting because I find people interesting. And we're not perfect. People find themselves in stressful situations and they react in different ways. And I find that fascinating. A lot of the things I do are involved in family law and on a typical Friday, there'll be perhaps four or five weddings done in my courtroom. And then on the other hand, you got these divorces you're doing at the same time and you look at couples and you realize how happy they were at one point and what happened between that point and the time that the divorce starts. And I don't have a good answer for it. So we don't ask that question at follow-ups but that's always intriguing to me. A lot of what I do is very intriguing. Now I don't know if you mentioned earlier, you also marry people. I don't know if your viewers are aware of that. How many couples do you marry on an annual basis approximately? I'd say about, probably about 200. About 200 a year. Well we do our weddings on Fridays between three and four. And if someone wants to sneak one in earlier, they can do it. You don't. So you bring people together in marriage, you also perform and provide the service of mediation. Right. Tell us a little bit about the mediation program that you have in place. Well mediation became mandated by the state back in 1988 and the experience that the courts were finding was that as more and more couples got divorced, there were more and more disputes regarding the custody and physical place for new children. And the experience was that the courts really weren't the best place to resolve these matters because oftentimes they turn into a mud slinging events and unfortunately. And if you sit through one of those hearings, you'll find that every little picadillo that the other person has is gonna be brought out for good or bad. And then the court makes a decision and sends out mom and dad and tells them, okay, go parent your kids after they've been through this terrible situation. So the legislature felt it was best to try to get them off the court track, so to speak, inside and get them into mediation. So they go into mediation and they talk with the mediator about the issues with custody and placement to see if they can resolve it without going to court and again, getting into a process that can be very damaging and also very expensive. And Chabuigan, I've seen the numbers of mediation cases creeping up every year, just as a number of divorces are creeping up. I think last year we referred about 295 couples to mediation and I'd say about half the time they'll walk out of mediation with an agreement and a lot of the couples that don't necessarily have an agreement in mediation will not end up going to court because I think mediation kind of sets the table, so to speak and they'll come up with some resolution afterwards and they won't actually go to see the judge. But if they don't come up with a resolution then there would be a guardian alitim that's appointed, that's an attorney who would represent the kid's best interests, there can be psychological studies ordered, that type of thing and then the judge would make a decision to custody and placement of the kids. And speaking of the children, you also offer a program that helps parents with the transition and what the implications might be for the children, how does that program work? Well the statutes allow every county to have a program on the effects of divorce on children. It's not mandatory but you can do it and we have a program called Remember the Children and couples that are going through a divorce that have kids that are required to go to this program, there's a $20 fee and couples don't go together that go separately and the program involves a video and also a lot of discussion and I hear from the people who provide the program that the couples like the discussion. Divorce is not a good thing on people, they really don't deal with it real well all the time and they really do care about their kids and it's very helpful for them to be able to sit down and speak with their peers and see what they're doing and how they're handling situations. So it's a four hour program that couples are required to go to and it's mandatory before they get divorced. You mentioned you became court commissioner in 1988. Yes. There, I imagine there have been a number of changes over those years, what have you seen, what have you observed as some of the key changes or trends in the department? Well, I just talked about mediation, that was a big change that came on right after I became court commissioner and again that's the attitude that cases are better off resolved not through a fight in court but rather through a cooperative resolution and as I indicated before, the numbers have been creeping up and up and up throughout the years. Another change that's related to that is mediation not just in family court but also other areas. We do mediation small claims for example. Another change I've seen and is the number of people who come into the Sheboygan County area who are from other cultures and there's a great need to provide interpreters for them and as a compliment I think to Sheboygan County that Sheboygan does attract people who are looking to work and it's good for us because the people that come here are oftentimes very motivated and very industrious people but the need to provide translators is interesting at times. I had a day about, boy, it was about two months ago where in one afternoon I needed a Russian translator, a Bosnian translator and also a Spanish translator. So that has created quite a, I shouldn't say problems, we can deal with them but it's a challenge from time to time. So with the experience you've gained and the commitment you've shown to Sheboygan County, do you have any interest in being a circuit court judge at some point? Well, I've tried that before Adam. There are two ways you can become a judge. One is to be appointed by the governor and back in 1990 rather when Judge Anderson resigned when he was elected to the Court of Appeals, the branch four, Judgeship was open and I applied for that and the pleasure of having an interview with the governor along with a couple other candidates from Sheboygan County and Judge Murphy who's still on the bench was appointed. The other way to become judges to be elected and in 1994 when branch five was created, Judge Bulgert and myself, Judge James Bulgert ran for that position and Jim won the election and so those are the two ways to do it. I've tried in the past and yes I'm interested in trying again. And you touched on it earlier but what do you enjoy most about your job? It's very challenging, very complex. What do you enjoy most about it? Well, the good side of any challenge is that there are rewards and there are rewards. For example, there was a couple that came in my office a couple of weeks ago and this is a couple I've dealt with literally for years and they had a difficult divorce. They've been referred to mediation over and over and over again without mediation really resolving anything. And I was having a particularly a busy day that day and it probably wasn't the best mood in the world and this guy comes in and says, hey I got good news for you. And I said, what's that? And he said, well my wife and I have resolved things and she was there and she was smiling and they even had their daughter now who's about 14 or 15 and she was smiling too. So when you see people work through their problems that's very rewarding at them, it really is. Very good, thank you. I don't know if I had any role in their case but you'd like to think that you do. Terry, I was thinking when you and Adam were talking for a while there, you mentioned that what did you spend on Friday afternoons marrying people one hour in the afternoon? We allow 15 minutes of wedding. Okay, and I had run the numbers in my head and I came out to 15 minutes of wedding. Maybe you should allow all of Friday for weddings. You spend an hour or two on the weddings so you wouldn't have so many divorces. When I book my schedule. Maybe 50 minutes isn't enough. When I book my schedule for March, I'll keep that in mind. Okay. You always hear, this isn't one of the questions that we had talked about earlier but it's not gonna surprise you with one here. We always hear about a judge's docket. It seems to me that a lot of the things you do with are things that are happening as you, you don't, do you have a docket that you set? Are you set aside some time for weddings but do you have your whole day's docket set up that you have to get on the docket to see you or do you take care of issues as they come up? Well, the answer is both. I've got time that I block aside. Every December I'll look at the calendar for the next year and I'll just block certain times off, for example. I know on Wednesdays, for example, like I said, from 1.30 to 2.30, I'll be doing traffic appearances. Every morning from 11 to noon, I know I'll be doing bail appearances, that type of thing. I have to keep enough time open for temporary order hearings when a divorce starts and the reason for that, again, is things are usually pretty tense in a household, in a relationship, when a divorce starts. So it's important if we can get a couple, excuse me, we can get a couple in a court right away. So there is the flexibility there, Dan, to meet with problems as they arise. Also, with the injunction hearings that I do, the law requires that they be done within seven days. So again, the flexibility has to be there to get a couple in within seven days for their hearing. Terry, we can't have one of our department heads in for one of our shows without talking a couple of minutes about their budget. Okay. And it's really pertinent now with the problems we're all hearing about with the deficit and state budget and how it's affecting local governments. Just a minute or two on what your budget is and how some of these shared revenue cuts could affect you. Well, my budget, Dan, is about $250,000 a year. And of that money, about $35,000, $37,000 is for operating expenses. And if I were to have to cut into my operating expenses, probably the area it would affect would be mediation, for example. And I think mediation is a worthwhile program. I think it's a worthwhile effort. Again, if you can get people to resolve their problems on an amicable basis without going to court and fighting, everybody's further ahead. It's also, I think for the people involved, it's certainly less expensive than having to go to court to fight. And I would worry about that being impacted. Do all your revenues, or where are your revenues coming? Do you have revenue source other than tax levy? I have a couple of revenue sources. If there is a judgment that's filed against someone in civil court, let's say you're sued by a, the Sheboyne Clinic is a creditor that we see quite often. Let's say you got a bill with the Sheboyne Clinic and you don't pay it, and there's a judgment that they get, then the clinic or any other creditor can bring someone in a court for what's called a supplemental exam. And then if you are the debtor, then you are required to appear in front of myself to answer questions about your finances. And that's a source of revenue that every supplemental gets a $15 fee. And that runs up to several thousand dollars over the course of a year. Another source of revenue we get is from the mediation. When a couple files an action for divorce by statute, a portion of that filing fee is put aside for mediation. And I think it's $25 per filing. And that helps to pay the cost of the mediation. Also, we get money from the Remember the Children program. That's self-supporting. And the money that's left over from paying for materials and paying the providers and goes to the county. So there are some revenue sources. I think if I remember right, is you get some money from when people get married you have to buy their wedding license. Isn't some of that money set aside for this mediation? Part of that is set aside for mediation also. So we actually get money from them when they get married. That's right. That's why we can pay for the mediation. Even if they don't have kids. Such a society we live in. You betcha. It's like a big insurance policy. Just we're running out of time just in one minute. Any challenges that you see in the future for the court system? Well, this kind of ties in with what you were talking about earlier, Dan, with the shared revenue. And this really isn't part of the shared revenue problem, but the state is decreasing its funding of public defenders offices. And by the right of the constitution, indigent people are entitled to have legal representation. So if the state isn't going to fund it through their public defender's offices that's going to fall on the county. And it's a shame for a lot of reasons. I think the integrity of the system requires that you have people who are familiar with the criminal justice system who provide these services. I think our public defender's office does a great job. And I hate to see that obligation being pwned up on the county. And it's happening as we speak. As we speak across the state. And if there's more budget deficits, it'll probably get worse. And because it's a constitutional obligation, it's something that you can't run away from. But I think that's a real problem that I see. Well, thank you, Terry. It's been very interesting for me and I'm sure for our viewers. Hopefully most of our viewers won't have to use your services or the card system. But I think we have a better understanding of what's available. When people come to court, I try to tell them it's not as bad as going to the dentist. But I'm not sure that's always true. Well, I've been to the dentist last couple of weeks. I haven't been to the card system. I'm happy I went to the dentist. Okay, well, thanks, Dan. Next month, our guest is going to be Tim Finch, our finance director. And we're going to be talking about the governor's proposal to deal with the deficit, a $1.1 billion deficit in Madison and how it will affect your buying county. So this will be a very interesting program. We almost bumped you, Terry, this month because it was immediate. But I'm glad we had you and we learned a lot. And next month we'll talk about our budget problems. Okay, thanks again. And thank you to our viewers for watching.