 So, we begin the planning for the Venn workshop. Day before yesterday you have had a meeting on administrative matters and at that time it has been decided that the dates will be 14 June which is a Tuesday to 24 June which is a Friday and although there are 11 days we will not have any sessions on Sunday 19 June. This will be the off day that is frozen next 34 centres all of us who are present here now coming to the topics and themes. Next one is I had split these into 13 topics out of which we treated 12 very well. We did not have much time to consider introduction to cycles. So let us first consider first 12, 12 topics and their sequencing is okay later on as convenient because there are a large number of lectures I may split them into you know group them into sub topics but these are the 12 main topics okay. What about topic 13 include what we did today plus basic analysis of cycles. Now if you look at the exercises provide me feedback because we have not had time to look at exercises you will notice that we do basically all cycles but we do not complicate a cycle too much but we include isentropic efficiencies of compressors and turbines. We include regeneration effectiveness of the regenerator is also included some explanation out there will be necessary what is meant by effectiveness of regenerator. When it comes to regeneration in a steam plant we just consider contact heaters which are mixers and we do simple problem with one or at most two compact contact heaters. We do not do exercises which we do in energy conversion with you know n contact heaters or n flash heaters or n drain cooled heaters and things like that. In this we restrict ourselves in this particular course only two may be a single contact heaters but if they know how to handle a single contact heater they should be able to handle other contact heaters also I mean more number of contact heaters also. So chapter 13 cycles now with cycles included do you think there is any possibility of including other topics because we will be solving large number of problems in the see I tell you what in compressible fluid flow if you talk about we will be essentially talking about the thermodynamics of compressible fluid. Which one let me see the feedback is here I will go by that and decide after some time but generally the thing is cycles have to be included right. So all 13 topics and sequence is okay now regarding the goodness of topics whether to increase or decrease I will look at it but is there a general consensus that more time and more emphasis has to be put on certain topic do you think that there was a topic on which even now we should have or we could have spent more time second law and okay so there is still there are still some question marks we will definitely spend more time on that on availability I think if I spend more time on second law I do not think there will be any need to spend more time on availability because availability is just application of the two anyway each topic will be spread out in the final lecture because by default everything gets twice as much time but some topics may not need twice as much time so that will go into as he said second law thermometry can be compressed anyway I am going to get double the time so keep the same time for thermometry see I spend may be an hour and a half on thermometry okay I will spend only an hour and a half there by default I can spend 3 hours so those additional time will go in second law more problem solving we have not solved many problems here and remember their problem solving will take time because we will have solutions ready with us but we should force the participants to solve problems you know here I just gave you the scheme of things and you said okay now we can go ahead there I think it will be a good idea because most of those people will be juniors to you although they will be teachers or teaching assistant they will all be juniors to you so you should force them to solve problems and throw out anyone who does not come with a calculator make that thing and can you get local copies of the steam tables okay you have the address etc so 30 40 copy should be any how many of you use Mathur Mehta steam tables 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 ok so if you do not mind restricting yourself to Mathur Mehta steam table just try to get at least for this workshop the Mathur Mehta steam tables because that way you know everyone is at the same level otherwise you know temperatures differ by a fraction enthalpies differ by a few kilo joule per kilogram and once upon once it also happened that I had one steam table someone else had some other steam table and end state was in his case subcode in my case superheated by a few degrees in his case dryness fraction 0.98 so such funny things happen answers do not go drastically off but it is better to have so that I can say refer to this page this thing and see this but what do you think is the comfort level of teachers and students with steam tables teachers are comfortable what about students how much effort does it take to become comfortable with steam tables 2 class the others just listen that is left to you it is a local decision to participate or whether to keep them with you and use locally for other other batches or whatever but one thing is you know we zeroed in on Mathur Mehta because we first came across Mathur Mehta around 1990-1992 and at that time we found that the cost was only 2 rupees or 2 rupee 50 paisa information was slightly less it has become factor and from 2 rupees it has gone to 20 rupees inflation and fattening both included but at that time and even now I believe that it is one of the most widest range and this thing is that true if there is something else which is better than that will include that there is no harm so we will restrict mean we will say that Mathur Mehta steam table and we will say n copies as required will be obtained by each center and I will leave it to you because what to do with them is left to you whether to collect it back or give it to those people then personal calculators compulsory make it very clear scientific of we do not need much but we need logarithms once in a while exponentials once in a while if we do detail pi we need but we do not really need sine cosines hyperbolic sine cosines I think apart from our normal things only exponential I mean t t raise to gamma minus 1 by gamma and logarithm that type we need we need do not need very jazzy ones I will put simple scientific now coming to the presentation form what is the general feedback tablet or paper or so that means you are leaving it to me then you tell me yesterday for example I did open systems on a presentation pre-cooked presentation so was that okay for only open systems that means for property relations it was a bit too fast right see the disadvantage with a tablet is that the handwriting is no good but of course now that I know I have to use tablet I will have a tablet I will start practicing with it no on Monday when I started it was I had spent may be not more than half an hour for a day playing with the tablet and that is why still I am uncomfortable I open it and it suddenly turns 90 degrees and then I have to call him and straighten it out yes that is true because it is as near the chalk and board as possible but the you know quite often I get I said that look at this equation I point it here but nothing happens there whereas at least on paper when I say look here my hand and my pencil it seems but yes but out of out of nothing a line comes right like a ghost it comes but let me see either this or a good document project this one but that is only a highlighter it is like this okay okay I think that is a good idea you say that pdf good only for open systems because you are comfortable already with open system no new thermo principle yes sir okay here at least you are seeing me in person whatever I am doing there people may be seeing only my short picture in the corner open systems and cycles okay so I think what I will do is I will prepare my presentation saying that these these things have to be there that is the way sometimes I referred to my this book contains my old document so this only I will precook otherwise I will have this thing right no but the general tendency general feel is yes I think that is a very good point that here may be precooked but I am here in flesh and blood out there the precooked will totally be detached because they do not see me they only hear me coming out of nothing and that to throw an internet the voice quality also reduces okay so then what I will do is I will use the pdf only for open systems and for cycles everything else will be done like because as far as time is concerned those 10 days it is sufficient time and when you write something participants also write something and it prevent them from going into some slipping mode maybe in the afternoon and but that also means of this is not technical you are going to feed them tea biscuits and lunch right see to it that that is going to be summer time so see to it that there is no afternoon siesta by providing a proper quote unquote proper lunch do not feed them too much or if you think they are getting fed too much give them some masala chai or something soon after yes sir there any question comes from different centers that time required to answer for this questions for different centers also time consuming so here only 37 participants are there still we have spending a lot of time whereas no you are concentrating on 34 centers I know I know so there will be some questions which the local coordinator may be able to answer because of the exposure here the request is as far as possible assimilate all that you have learned we will have an interaction what I will do is I will see if the moodle side comes up fast if it comes up fast it is okay otherwise I will set up a Google group for us now I have used Google groups even for our relatives when we are visiting somewhere so everybody knows what we are doing so there is no difficulty in setting up a Google group we will start on that sir in your pre-cooked format there is a problem yes suppose here starting from the first line the people may look at the last line because I do not know because that printout is already given to you because printout is already there so the concentration moves away and once you write then specifically particularly the person focuses on that thing only he never looks on the next line in fact that is why one of the questions which I asked is when I have those pre-cooked slide shall I give the I mentioned that I do not want to give the slides well in advance I must yesterday also I gave you only the first one when I started and I gave you open systems when I started open systems only after asking you whether I want that whether you want it otherwise those papers but I have gone waste but out there I cannot afford to provide you one print per my projection so out there it is without that overly I am saying eight lines that is good for presentation for me so that you are not distracted but you have the whole thing with you so you know what is coming when we do the kind of simulation for the presentation then the mathematical steps follow in a particular sequence right whereas when you provide such kind of thing all the steps are appear simultaneously and then it gets distracted so it is always beneficial to go by here it is live action you do not know what is coming even I do not know what I am going to write that depends on what you say that is why this is what we preferred over that thank you I have no idea I do not think because if there is any local expert I do not know what which local what expert is and with 34 centers it will be very difficult if each center wants one local expert for one local expert for half an hour that is more than three days but that is what I said that if you have you are one percenter you are exposed to me but I am sure at a few places there would be others who would be almost as good as you and if they want to help out the only thing that will help out is some very minor questions some clarifications some misunderstanding can be taken care locally by you for that if you have a quote unquote local expert for a good technical friend absolutely no harm in making use of them it is also possible that participant one has a query which participant three can clarify let it be because it is you know every time you send the question through the coordinator to the central thing there is going to be a jarring thing because I will have to say here there seems to be a question from Sivakasi and then over to Sivakasi somebody will click click and then the question will be asked and I will say and then after that thing is over okay now back to the main thing this is bound to happen because there will be questions with 34 of you there were enough questions with 34 into n I do not know how many questions but I am sure there will be a number of routine questions which locally you can handle so you should handle that. Sir I give one solution. Yes sir. Let the coordinator discuss the difficulties. Coordinators discuss the difficulties whatsoever they face in the center if coordinator is not able to solve the question his difficulty then he may contact you so one in that way only 34 you have to attend only 34 coordinators. Yes I have any no student I suppose directly contacts me it is the coordinator's job to put him through me I think there is some protocol like that which is being set up. So if suppose there are say for simplicity there are 20 so 340 into 20 680 students so 680 students if they raise their hands any one of them nothing happens the student should raise his hand the local coordinator should see what is the problem if that cannot be solved then wait I will contact them that is how it should work. Yes so that is why and that is why this coordinator's workshop is 2-3 months in advance and I hope soon you will be getting the PDFs and other things of this so that as far as possible you should be in a position to and excuse me sir of course excuse me sir. In fact last workshops what we have done the coordinators used to collect all the questions first and after that they used to scan this questions and mail them to us. These used to be asked by the coordinator yeah it is on no no it will be all the questions not all the questions the coordinators used to select specific questions and then ask the coordinator has to ask immediately or after the lecture see end of every lecture there will be a series of questions created locally some of them the local coordinator will be able to handle in which that the case that story is over if he is unable to handle they are sent to us by email or that chat window then what will happen is from 34 centers I will give some maybe on a given topic I will get maybe 30 40 questions but those may not be distinct there will be common features in many one of them so it is my job to satisfy all those questioning people so long as I am able to satisfy them it is okay perhaps it is possible that the same question or a very similar question comes from 10 may not be all 34 may be comes from 10 15 so those 15 question essentially collapsing to one sir I think that is why you know whenever in a class or in a meeting like this 56 hands go up I select one of them and the question is asked and I reply many other hands then go down because it was the same question or if a hand comes up it is only a supplementary to that such things are bound to happen they happen in any class so they will happen here also sir there should be some more clarity to prevent this staggering of questions maybe if we are deciding right now that say one class is over and then the it is open for questions then we are allowing some three four or what the max five questions then others will realize that five questions are over whatever the questions there those are not answered they will write to you maybe in the evening and the next day you can answer and then accordingly you can choose that five centers are over the another five centers should be given a chance so that people will have some understanding another thing is once this moodle comes up many of those interactions will take place through moodle every day evening or of lecture time and one that moodle is operational it doesn't moodle doesn't switch off after that for example my thermodynamics moodle I keep it alive for quite a few time after that but before the next thermodynamic thing begins I switch it off I mean even those students or others cannot sign up because that way you know there will be some common stuff I don't want them to look at them in advance from that point now that means I will restrict to precook presentations only for open systems and maybe cycle and that means one day before the open system session and one day before the cycle session I will mail each center or I will make available through moodle to coordinators the PDF of that and you agree to print it and give it to the students just before the lecture begins otherwise they are going to fall asleep okay that that you have to agree just the way I gave you just as the lecture started for property relations and just as the lecture started for open systems property relations I will not use for open systems I will modify it because some figures were not very clear so I will clarify them it is your duty you promise that they will not be distributed less than 0 minutes before the lecture the lecture begin and then you can hand them over and my idea of problem sessions that we will have all the solutions ready but they will not be available to the participants they will available only to the coordinators I will solve some problems but maybe I will give 15 minutes for saying now solve some this particular problem and then you should be because you have the solution with you you should be able to see to it that locally they are able to solve of course there will be some person will go totally off track if you cannot make sense of that track that can be referred to me will it be a good idea to give some exercises or homework to be done overnight which you can locally check yes or no why not so generally they are maybe they want to maybe have some their free time from 5 30 to morning because morning again 9 o'clock they want to study so keeping them always occupied with not always occupied maybe once in the first week once in the second week an exercise is taking not more than say hour or hour and hour not every day or across that gap day we have a gap on Sunday so I can give some exercises occupying maybe because it's a Sunday maybe two hours Friday till Monday Saturday till Monday morning so those are all the young teachers so they should be easy to easy for them to work no it's sort of a tutorial they miss it is it is very easy for a tutorial to be solved in a team like team of three or four so you let them solve it in the team of three or four so I doubt it's but we can try always okay then can I for example the very first quiz which I gave you that what I called prerequisite test test zero I feel like modifying it and using it in the clicker format in the very first on the very first day okay and you have that thing but that you are not going to show to anyone of course you know all the answers are more or less useless but even the questions you are not going to tell anyone I may modify the questions and they will get modified because every will everything will have to be a clicker as how many option buttons five ABCD and also yes no so if I if it is yes no I should say A for yes and C for no something like and can I set a time limit 15 seconds or 30 seconds is it adjustable no one thing I can conduct a quiz either clicker based or worked out say once every three days 5 to 5 30 5 to 5 30 is could be a test time and clicker based I can do anything anytime clicker should be ready so I think rather than homework such a test will be better and I don't see many of them I see hardly any one of them only when they ask questions I can see something otherwise it's uncomfortable for me also because at least here you are in in front of me in fresh and blood at that time camera in front of me and a few people like this no the reason is the moment you have those you know a few students maybe 15 20 my attention gets focused on them I forget that I am talking to a camera with a maybe 600 or thousand people on the other side it is necessary for me to be conscious of the camera because camera is the representative of the thousand people who are on the other side if there is a camera but for example that you are here I just even don't worry that there is a camera there it just goes out of my mind that shouldn't happen otherwise the moment that happens all coordinators within the first hour will start saying UNG is neglecting us you don't want that to happen right of course I'll allow a few students maybe faculty members who are interested to sit but they should not be in front of me and I will not be teaching them I will be teaching the camera it's difficult but then I have to do it sir one suggestion regarding the home assignment instead of keeping Sunday off only if you make say the course starting from Monday and finishing on Saturday so that we have to Saturday and Sunday in between as we off days during that we can have this no but now I am not thinking in terms of homework homework they will do by default if I declare on Monday that on Tuesday afternoon we are going to have a test and by default I will keep it 5 to 5 30 or 4 30 to 5 30 so that they will be as used as somebody said they will remain alert almost through the day and at any time I will say take your clicker out so I will say test 0 with clicker and we will say I will say a few clicker based questions each hour and 30 to 60 minute quiz almost every other day and what I will do is these tests or quizzes I will send to the coordinators a few hours in advance so keep a Xerox machine ready to print them and soon after the test I will send the model solution and evaluation scheme so I will leave it to the coordinators and the TAs to evaluate that okay otherwise you will have to scan the whole thing send it to me and then yeah clicker based is you know sort of a feedback everything for example when it comes to open system you know the tank problem do you think it is necessary to consider if the level is going up and down the work done by the atmosphere or on the atmosphere yes no 15 seconds and if overwhelmingly say no then I have to spend 5 minutes demonstrating why it is necessary and if it is only you know if 90% against 10% I will say the majority is right but may I request the 90% to explain to those 10% why it is necessary which one all the material for example everything which you have seen here is going to be made available in a PDF format after a week or 2 okay because just now what has happened is all this thing one day I am going to get one file of so many 100 pages of PDF and for simplicity I have told them the files are simply thermodynamics day 1, day 2, day 3, day 4, day 5 then I will you know just rearrange them and cut them as the intro lecture then the 13 topics will have 13 and may be each topic I will have sometimes 2 saying this and exercises because in between second law and problems on steam they were mixed up because of some time management so I will just cut and put them at the appropriate place and those PDFs will be available either I will mail them to you I think just now a list of participants has been given to each and everyone and just confirm that particularly the email address in that is perfect character by character if there are any corrections let us project them just now so that not only me everyone else knows no but if there is an underline with a gap for example cell vein space SLM that is cell vein underscore SLM right gap with an underline is underscore because I think nobody allows a backslash space type of thing in a email address I think there is only one such case or is there more CB power S Karthik Rajkumar thermal and anyway I will get an electronic copy of this in which case that underscore will properly be copied so your phone numbers and your email IDs mainly email IDs we are not going to call unless there is an emergency should be perfect so question paper email from here marking scheme here following over here that is a good question see in the out here what I did was the very first exercise remember I went through too much of a detail step by step unit by unit conversion by conversion now what I want is when you submit those exercises I want the exercises to be in that much detail so maybe generally when you solve for yourself you may solve in maybe half a sheet but the way I explained it that day if you solve it writing each and everything in fact that also was not complete because I was saying something okay you should write the solution in such a way that nothing more needs to be said including multiply equation 2 by 3 subtract equation 3a from equation 1 all those things should be written so it may become 4 or 5 pages scan it and send it to me okay because remember the solution will be used not only for you to explain to others to local but it will also be used by 33 others in 33 other centers so let us you know by default assume that each and everything but if it is in word format my request is because word is anathema to me anything with Microsoft or Windows I do not like I use this Microsoft because I have no choice it has been given to me so if you do it in word somehow convert it into a PDF and send it to me I have no problem and if you scan it see to it that the scanned version is also a PDF do not send me a JPG or PIFF or something like that okay if it is scanned handwritten and scanned make it a PDF scan if it is the word or any other format you use please convert it into a PDF if you cannot directly convert your package into PDF nicely print it out scan it into a PDF I think everybody has a possibility of scanning into a PDF right that should not be a difficulty that means at most you will have to go through a print in between sir my query was related to a tutorial session as you have said that day that you are going off from the screen for that one hour or one and a half not one hour and one and a half hour in a tutorial session I may decide to have a one hour tutorial session but that may be four problems of 15 minutes each roughly in which case I will say now solve this problem I will be available but I will not be interacting by default but I will be available for questions from coordinators during that time. My request is if you explain one or two problems before begin that will be done that will be done like you have explained to all of us yes yes that will be done for a typical illustrative problem I cannot do that for each and every problem right so I want to follow the same method for example the exercise which I did I like that exercise because it has a large number of issues involved in it two components of work to process diagrams one P against V one something against time different units so maybe that problem or a similar problem I will solve as a Dumbo thing other problems in others I will solve in a structural manner saying this is given this is given now calculate this I may not calculate it but now you say now first complete this solution in detail and then I will say after 10 minutes now I hope you have obtained all the solution now I will tell something funny about the next problem which is to be solved and say now 15 minutes and now with this problem you would have understood how to handle this so now proceed somewhere else that is the type of scheme I plan to follow thank you sir as per as questions by clickers they are concerned I think some sufficient time maybe two minutes for each question should be given because there is a relay delay of some six minutes six seconds itself rather than so just that they we have demonstrated some 30 seconds for each question some two minutes should be given so that the category of non-responded will be less that anyway on on the very first day morning we are going to have that session so that will put all of us in the same so tutorials I will say first problem in great detail then other method of solution plus provide time for students to think solution okay and that also means that exercises please provide detailed I should say super detailed I am not going to complain that you use too many sheets never super detailed solution should be for you for 33 plus n star 33 others others and submit to I will mail to you because I do not want to my mail ID is there on your on the brochure but that is that contains so many other things that I will create a separate mail ID and I will mail it to you which one whatever the assignment it you have provided to us the numerical so if you give the answers for that final no no no you send me to me I will give you feedback because you know over the years I have changed the number but I have not resolved the problem I change the numbers because everybody knew what the old answer was or there was some problem or the steam table changed so I had to that those values were not available so I changed them something like that and I will put a deadline for submission what not two weeks two months in advance see today is February 25 March 25 April 25 16 days and I think none of you has more than four problems so one March 25 you said it yes sir testing will be the testing will be for one month earlier only the testing will be starting one month earlier 15 days earlier I say every day one or two hours that testing will be there before 15 days before the workshop yes yes yeah yeah you have to be there you have to be it is compulsory one thing you tell me out of these 34 how many centers are such that they have not conduct they have not been a remote center for professor professor Sudarshan's earlier thing about one two three four five six about half say roughly half so the problem is majority for these are they are now K people I think they are newcomers for the other 17 last time Sudarshan's workshop a view was new to everybody except but now it is new only to half of them of course for all these people it is new but there is some person there who has worked so the network team is perhaps knowledgeable about it