 Welcome everyone who's joining us here today for this live talk on Capital Insider series. We are very privileged to have with us today Mr. Sudeep Sethi who's the founder and chairman of Chirate Ventures India and of course he's done brilliant work at Chirate Ventures in terms of building you know the fund which has today become I mean I think I have some numbers here with me and and so please connect me if I'm wrong but I think in the fourth fund that you raised you've done about 19 investments in on two IPOs 35 exits and four unicorns that's that's you know a really really envious number to have for a fund and was very privileged to have you here for this talk but I think what I what I really like about Mr. Sethi's philosophy is that you know he feels that the digital age has only just started so we've only actually touched the tip of the iceberg when it comes to really exploring opportunities that digital India is today going to give us so digital India's push to start up India is today evident and this is what we're going to talk about while the pandemic has been extremely disruptive we've been sitting in our homes lockdowns six months now but I think if we'll go down and look at this pandemic in 2025 we'll probably also realize this was the most golden age and the most hitting moment for digital India to really take up in its full glory and the opportunity has just started so welcome Mr. Sidhir Sethi and I would love to hear from you what do you think today are the real opportunities that digital India holds today given the fact there's so much as a country we need to develop we also need to think a lot more intrinsic when it comes to platforms and technologies that we need so really I mean you know from your lenses what are the opportunities for digital India and for startups building or finding themselves building technology businesses. Ritu thank you very much for inviting me here it's a pleasure again and I hope all of you and all people watching are safe and sound first one small correction we've invested in 90 companies and all the numbers you mentioned in all our funds not just the fourth fund overall so you know I think it's important to look at the fact that India being digital is a phase which we are going through the internet is a highway like the road infrastructure in India I think it's also a bit patchy right now but the what the what the pandemic has done is of course you know taken anything and everything which you do in the physical world wherever it is possible to do in the digital world is now being pre-poned whether it is buying goods and services whether it is B2B whether it is B2C whether it is fitness whether it is health whether it is the whole space of agriculture finance you name it every part of our life as lives have been affected and I think while there is stress in the economy there is no doubt there are stress among people if we look at this as a business opportunity as an opportunity and a half a glass half full you will notice that there are many many green shoots which have already emerged in the market space you know there are challenges which the country faces and there are a billion plus people who don't have health care how do you read a billion plus people and how do you deliver health care in this day and age where we have not been able to deliver the number of doctors we don't have the number of nurses we don't have the number of clinics the number of CT scans I mean you just the list goes on and on so the conventional method of delivering health care to a billion people I think will not help at all so the question is how can you use the digital platform to deliver basic health at least first I can understand that emergency and health related to expertise which is required in in surgery or cancer or you know that's a physical process but there is no reason why basic health cannot be delivered okay basic health the if you deliver it in the conventional way we'll need another three four hundred thousand doctors but today it's possible to reach you know somebody in to and room or in siligree digitally and give that health care services from experts anywhere in the world okay not just India and and the is it possible to set up clinics is it possible to set up pathology labs in the country which follow the conventional method so effectively there are easier and more technology advanced ways by which you can be can deliver to a billion people health the same applies to education the same applies to SMEs who need capital for working capital the same applies to farmers there are hundreds of millions of farmers in the country who are struggling even today on average to two and a half acres worth of land which they own and crop productivity is still a big issue okay so I think if you look at it from that point of view the digital infrastructure of the company wherever it is on a scale of 10 can move us into a very different a much much larger scaled direction while it sits on top of the infrastructure which is already there and that's where the power of digital lies to solve problems which have not been solved before using technology and reached masses whether it is in consumers or farmers or businesses okay in a much more efficient manner and deliver results. Sure and what particular sectors you particularly see and of course you know I mean given the fact that we're also seeing you know the rift between Google and a lot of technology companies on the Play Store what what areas do you feel we need to build our technologies in order to be more self-sufficient as a country and we don't really all the time have to rely on you know international companies to help us or to enable us to reach out to our customers what what more we could doing and in what sectors we should be doing that. I think the answer to what sectors is every sector I mean look at it you know if the new sectors which I named every sector needs to scale up e-commerce companies when we invested in Minzra you know the number of active consumers who are buying and selling on the product on the net was 10 million today is maybe 100-120 million we're talking about 500 million 600-700 million people in the near future coming on the internet and and transacting commerce right in which of a way whether it is services or products I think those efficiencies have to come in supply chain okay it's in every sector supply chain from you know large companies to karyana stores it is very inefficient it goes through distributors and there is marginal loss there there is inefficiency there is delays in delivery so I think there's enough work to be done where digital infrastructure can play a very large role by building marketplaces by building you know technology platforms which enable see-through for large companies to go to the smaller retailers wherever retailers are not required at the end of the day consumers can be reached directly I think that's another platform so as I said every sector there is nothing called it can't digital infrastructure digital India cannot reach that it can you know so while this is one side where you say every sector needs more technology and more technology disruption to make it more efficient but you know I mean given the fact that making in India is the order of the day particularly for digital businesses so how can Indian startup founders what will be your advice to them to say that you know you can build products which are more efficient which have a great user experience and you know at the end of the day if an Indian customer feels that I'm much better off with an international technology how can he reduce that conflict this is one thing that I have been witnessing a lot where in you know we read apps we read reviews and we feel that this is something which is a backlash which is coming in today for a lot of Indian startup founders when their technologies are compared to the rest of the world so what what can they do to make their product better more at par with the rest of the world and of course not considering the fact that it's already been done outside and there is already an existing product outside and therefore you have to sort of now do it in a much faster time to be able to reach out to your customer so what what would be your advice to them I think it's very simple you're assuming it's not being done already so I think that's maybe if I can correct that in our active companies we have 55 active companies they've exited the rest 24 of our companies have a global footprint that means the entrepreneurs have developed products which are relevant valid and comparable to the best in the world and perhaps leaders okay there is no question about it so Indian entrepreneurs in the space of technology whether it is in mobility whether it is an AR VR whether it isn't robotics are building global companies and the reason why they are building global companies is because fundamentally the nature of the young entrepreneur is a global mindset the internet has given them access and to that extent software companies you know previously built global companies today Indian entrepreneurs and products are going to build global companies we've seen that already in a small way that will happen more and more again so I think I would disagree that Indian consumers are looking for international products I mean anywhere in the world people look for the best brand and the best products right in today lens card is selling in the US today first cry selling in the Middle East today a small company called emotix which is designed a consumer robotic companion robot for children is selling in 40 countries today a company like playshifu is selling AR VR educational toys on the on the global roadmap so I think today you will find that if you're solving a challenge which Indians are facing trust me that challenge will increase somewhere in the world correct the mind of the the mind of the entrepreneur is if you compare it to the India's open market so anybody can come in and the way the entrepreneur thinks is if anybody can come in why shouldn't I go out because that's offense is the best way of defense so we are finding young companies going international right today there's a company called in our portfolio called Aether and they have built one of the world's leading upper arm prosthetics which is a bionic arm no other company in the world has that we are talking about kb colors which is extracting color out of microbes okay by applying stress no other company in the world has that and the list goes on and on we are talking about cropping who's managing 7 million acres of land through satellite imagery okay and influencing crop productivity and this is in India and outside the country so I think this myth about Indian products and services in the technology space not being up to the mark in the global sense is not true because half our companies are already selling outside the country in 40 countries right will this increase now answer is yes this will increase because when Indian products are developed they are developed at a price point which Indians want they are developed at a quality which Indians in the globe want the price points are attractive and the quality has to be the best and that's a potent combination for building the global company totally agree mr saty on this but where I was coming from more was that you know about five years back when a new startup used to happen it used to be the only one doing what it was doing but today the competition is catching up very fast because of course there is a lot of opportunity and there is you know the capital is only going to be so much and you know while funds would want to put it across all startups and see all of them rising but you know eventually the best will have to win so how can we ensure that everybody in this ecosystem is able to sort of succeed instead of just some few because of the lack of funding how can the environment be much more collaborative while competition is good and it always helps everybody to I mean the best to grow and consumers to use the best but nevertheless you know the others are also building technologies which are fairly good so how I mean the end of the day how can less startups fail that is most important that is not the goal Ritu the right question is are companies being built are differentiating technologies being built are products being built I mean today just again I can only take proxy which is us right now in output folio 120 patents have been filed 28 have been granted in us yeah that is an indication you know early stage venture capital is a proxy for R&D capital okay and the innovation which is being done today by the way can it be better answer is yes but let's be very clear that at the end of the day I don't think government can come and say let's do things better and this is how there is no recipe and prescription here right intense competition is the only way to build better products and better services and I think we have that already and Indian entrepreneur in a small way have delivered I think the scale at which we have to deliver is much larger we are seeing that in fact the last five years if the gradient of companies growing successfully has been 20 degrees in the last five years the next five years I see that as something closer to 45 degrees there is an inflection point which is already reached in the market space where companies are growing larger and larger and I do not agree that capital in India is not there capital in India is there it's there at seed stage it's there at early stage it's there at maybe small gaps in B rounds or so but it's definitely there after that in late stage in fact post covid we have seen more companies in our portfolio getting late stage funding and B rounds upwards of funding we've seen more capital come in because the quality of the entrepreneur and the product and the service the revenue model and the business model and the technology and by the way it's not or its end situation has even further differentiated and put some companies not all of them to a higher pedestal and capital chases the best in quality yeah but where I was coming from was the data says that only about eight percent of startups in India are funded so there's a huge scope for more funding but important is that the startups should not be copycats of each other they need to be doing different work they they need to be solving a different problem in order to maximize there is there is there is there is space under the roof for exceptional disruptive global quality startups there is a place to deliver copycats there is you know it's the VC by the way is not the end of the world there are enough capital which fund boutique companies right why does a small boutique survive because it is meant to be small and by the way it's a profitable venture I think you have to change the definition that venture capital is the end of it all okay at the end of the day there are tens of millions of entrepreneurs who run Kiryana stores in the country and by the way they were the backbone of the country then pandemic happened where the large e-commerce players could not deliver right right 100% backbone for six months that is an amazing story to say so all I'm coming back and saying we know what's not there but I am very positive that the gradient is shooting up right now and there's enough venture capital which builds global companies and domestic leaders in the market space the digital push has enhanced the tailwind there is a big tailwind which is coming in right now which is already seeing companies and we are noticing that we are seeing more than half of our company is growing faster than they used to pre-code and this has been only says seven months and I'll give you a very simple example in our own portfolio because I know that the total revenue of all our companies put together in the month of March was approximately a billion dollars in the month of April it went to 350 million wow in the month of May it went back to 650 million and today we are almost back to a billion so a lot of economists are talking about you know whether the recovery is going to be u-shape, v-shape, w-shape and any shape you can think of but here is a classic example at an aggregate level there are some companies who are not doing well but many are doing well okay where the companies who the reason why this aggregate billion dollar to billion dollar in our portfolios happened in terms of revenue is because they followed fundamentally agility enormous innovation digital online and many of them have gone global again much much faster Lenskart went global post-covid into u-s they were already in Singapore so I think entrepreneurs have adapted preponed products they've hired more people in technology and many of them have filed more patents in this space the entrepreneur is a very unique person and this is a great time for them to try it because they know how to go digital they know how to go online and India has provided that tailwind with in the last six months now can they can they get more capital, capital is available in fact in spite of China funds not being there I don't think in the early stage there was Chinese funds anyway okay that capital is still there in fact you see the numbers it's gone up totally yeah I mean yeah even in the in the pandemic and lockdowns we've seen funding happening so which is I mean something to be said about you know how digital businesses can still manage to grow at a time when lots of other businesses non-digital businesses are unable to do it so you know I mean if I may add one thing digital business traditionally is thought of as consumer we must think of digital also between B2B we must think of marketplaces we must think of efficiencies in supply chain distribution chain and what I think the government is done in removing some regulatory issues to facilitate for instance the farmer to farm to consumer where the FPOs are going away and so on that's a massive regulatory change right enables middlemen to go away the fact that education you know education is a situation which is ripe for digital okay it's an opportunity in fact I would even go to the extent of you know suggesting to the government state levels and central levels do not force people to come to schools it's an opportunity right you can never build enough schools in the country to educate the people who have don't have access the manner in which if you leave it optional like many countries are doing you'll find that schools will become available for children who need to go the real challenge is the digital divide education today is is ripe for growth and already growing because it's digital so remove the regulatory framework okay can there be a digital school why does it happen for such a long time precisely so can we have a digital school like we can have a digital market can we have a digital school can we have digital universities can we have digital banks right why does a bank have to open up a branch there is no need for a bank to open a branch you will find that the digital push goes extremely better for people who can do this and it'll reach you know today the thinking like yesterday has been to read Siliguri I need a branch you don't because there are 10 people in Siliguri who can do digital stuff they will be the role model for another 1000 and those 1000 will become role model for the whole of Siliguri and to that extent you don't need branches it's time to change in a revolutionary manner rather than evolutionary manner and regulation must lead that effort regulation cannot come back and say you still need to put up branches you still need to put up schools but I think it's probably even for the government or even for the institution it still is that reaching out to the last mile customer who may not be literate enough to still be able to take digital services I think that is the bigger challenge but as you said that the middle person today needs to be educated enough to get him into or her into the system of digitization so that they're able to so I mean you know the typical example is the middle man in the agricultural system wherein the middle man himself can be the manufacturer of digitization and leads the farmer on otherwise it's there's going to be a big conflict between the middle man the farmer the government the the buying bodies so it's eventually the just like in education it was the teacher whose comfort was important for digitization to happen here the farmers comfort is very important for digitization eventually I think become 100% yeah I think what's very important is for regulation not to protect anybody okay it is important to note that if in the in the whole chain of supply or distribution if any element is not adding value that element the system should permit it to go away and system should permit it to bypass there's no reason to protect a distributor just because he's a distributor in the yesterday years there's no reason to farm produce organization just because they were there yesterday right if the farmer has the capability to sell through a marketplace at the best price to four consumers and 10 businesses so be it that is the only way where people and organization will be forced to prove that they are valuable into the system right I think we've just lost Mr. Sethi for a minute there as the system seems to be hung but I do see there are some more questions also coming from our audience we'll probably like to have Ankit George to be given the mic so that he can ask his question once Mr. Sethi comes back on live Ankit we just wait for a minute before we give it because Mr. Sethi we seem to have lost the connection with Mr. Sethi for a minute sure thing please keep your questions coming so that we can once Mr. Sethi is back online we can probably take all the questions at this point of time so if you have if the audience both would like to ask some questions from Mr. Sethi kindly post your questions now ask them now so that we can take them up well we've been in an interesting debate where Mr. Sethi has more or less told us that you know today what is important is that the person who is not able to take digitization or they are not able to understand how technology could be useful for them needs to get out of the system i think that's a that's a big statement and i think but perhaps the only way forward for the country to grow as we go digital he's back with us so Mr. Sethi we've actually now got a lot of questions also coming for you so we've got Ankit who wants to ask your question he's online Ankit go ahead please hi thank you for the opportunity to ask my question i just wanted to understand so the ASEAN region is somewhat similar to India in terms of GDP per capita it's not necessarily one single market because there are many sovereign countries and the like unlike India with you know one country over a billion people just wanted to understand your view on the evolution and the future trajectory of digital India versus say a digital ASEAN region so i think the the extent of digitization especially in the consumer side of it in the ASEAN region is obviously higher in terms of how much people spend time per day in countries in some countries you know screen time is as high as eight hours a day overall and India does not have that i think the the scale of opportunity which India presents in a shorter time frame is far far higher than ASEAN for the simple reason that the just the number of consumers and the number of businesses is far higher overall but i do believe that the interface between cross border commerce whether it is especially in B2B is actually very high between ASEAN and India and especially of products technology products going into the market we ourselves have a few companies who are growing into that market space apart from the US so ASEAN in consumer has done is ahead of India right now there's no question in the digital infrastructure it is ahead India is behind India needs to catch up very very fast but in scale it will take over very fast sure yeah i think that that's that's really favorable for India particularly given the fact that you know the whole region is so large we also got Aman Deep Srivastava who wants to ask a question if we can just give him the mic please go ahead unmute yourself Aman and ask the question unmute go ahead please thank you ma'am thank you so much very good evening sir sir as i have heard that now the cv has invited the applications for the new cohort may i know what kind of startups you're looking at because we are an IoT and AI based company developing smart devices for in B2B segment for various companies so may please know that what kind of companies you're looking at this time now we are talking about our innovation program which we launched yesterday yes sir okay well we are looking at innovative companies in technology in all sectors whether it is agritech fintech you know any sector which you want to name and there's no definition of we are looking at only these technologies we have invested in a wide range of technologies and we believe that newer technologies will come in and older technologies will mature so there is no limitation and restriction and at what kind of states are actually the last year we were thinking to participate in that but we were at the very early stage but now we have some MVP so can we go for it now yes of course you can go for it just apply we look at seed companies we're looking at series A companies it's a combination okay thank you so much sir thank you so much thank you thank you amandip you know while amandip has asked and i was about to ask you the same question about the innovators program so you know how do you think the innovators program that you you know i think this is the fifth edition that you are doing for the innovators program and as a fund chirate is actually investing in the early stage startup companies also and also goes on right to series A series B funding so with this broad spectrum and also inviting a lot of young entrepreneurs like amandip to be part of the innovators program so how is it that you see that you know that you have the right balance set of companies in the portfolio and they're able to therefore maximize being part of chirate and you're also able to see a big growth at chirate with these companies so ritu number one it's the seventh cohort it's the longest running innovation program in the country you know if you look at our fund we've invested in 90 companies and seed early stage companies have been 50 and these seed companies have collectively raised 500 billion in capital and they're valued over a billion right now so i think our methodology in the market is to identify and work with entrepreneurs very very early this is a five week program we'll work with the entrepreneurs we'll look at go to market we'll look at advice we'll look at collecting two entrepreneurs together we'll we've got mukesh bansal of minthra coming in sorry mukesh bansal of cure fit who will also spend some time we've got supreme from first cry coming in and you know other in entrepreneurs who have confirmed that look in our portfolio they'll spend some time guiding some of the younger entrepreneurs and into product into go to market into business into anything which is there so for us it's not an imbalance it is a strategy by design to engage with entrepreneurs very early because that's where values build right at the early stage identifying companies which are solving real problems using technology which have not been solved before surely and i mean you know there is somebody who's asking an everyone who's saying that do you feel that content creation especially in sports for the digital audience stands as a big opportunity i mean now they're getting more particular about you know what what could be an opportunity today but i mean given the fact you know that ip l ran its course today in a different country where there was less pandemic situation and given the fact the fantasy gaming and different kind of gaming opportunities have seen such an uproar during this time i mean his question might just be too relevant that you know do we do you think we need more digital content around sports in the online space well i first and foremost i am disappointed ip l is being held outside the country if with those precautions ip l could be held in Dubai it should be held in your own store but that's that's a different story look at the end of the day ip l is being played as already digital and that that throws up enormous amount of opportunities in gaming and sports will it happen yes it will happen will it happen slowly or fast i don't know the answer to that but certainly the whole gaming space i mean there are already companies we have a company called place play simple right now doing extremely well in gaming in the market space so will gaming uh scale in india i think it will will esports scale in india it will will people spend eight hours a day like they do perhaps in philippines or other countries the answer is no i think indian habits on data consumption and on gaming are not going to be as high as that i think it will be lower because there's so much other things to do in the market space right from education to buying products online too you know but screen time is increasing let's be clear screen time for especially kids teenagers is shooting up right now so that's a market which will develop i'm sure by the way i hope it doesn't go to eight hours a day because that's a waste of time a bit too much for the eyes also then we need startups to fix okay so you know so this is one thing that i've been thinking about for some time that you know while the pandemic has sort of caught e-commerce and you know the various streams of e-commerce out there whether it was social commerce or whether it was you know fixing your hyperlocal commerce that sort of saw a big upsurge during this time but per se e-commerce did not attract a lot of funding as much as you know supply chain and logistic companies did particularly during the pandemic so do you feel the next step for e-commerce companies or probably even for d2c startups is to go the ipo route and do you think particularly for you mentioned about lens card um the first cry do you think now the next big you know growth for them for raising capital that they need to go overseas and to different markets might come from doing an ipo and should they be doing this in india or outside india so you asked me three questions one is not enough funding came into e-commerce and people went into supply chain well venture capital goes where there's a problem to fix okay and that becomes an opportunity so uh so so that is fine there's no problem at all the e-commerce companies you know took some time to set the house in order and deliver today they're doing very well by the way right now which means fundamentally there are two broad kinds of e-commerce companies in the market space one is horizontals which are basically two in the country which is amazon and flipkart and geo emerging uh overall i think india is large enough to accommodate three and i heard some news about the tata also consolidating so india is large enough to have three or four at least in the next five years so that's a great that's to me is a great thing to happen for the country uh second thing is there is the whole e-commerce market of verticals and you mentioned lens card and first strike you know verticals are high margin businesses verticals after certain time and people like lens card first strike your critical verticals in nature uh you know one in health and the other two in one and i wear the other and baby i think the opportunity for verticals like in the horizontals is actually very high and the reason for that is very simple the verticals have dominated the market right now and because they're high margin businesses they require less capital and to that extent verticals can grow internationally much faster why because those kind of verticals by the way in surrounding countries and maybe in some of the large developed countries do not exist i mean today i wear in volumes lens card is the second largest in the world right and please understand when such products go outside the country they make more money margins are higher when an international company comes into the country the margins are lower uh overall and i think for e-commerce verticals it's time to now scale the brand scale private label scale manufacturing in india okay because there's a big opportunity to scale manufacturing in india because the moment you do private label you have to back and integrate to manufacturing build the logistics introduce robotics into warehousing and you know there's a lot of stuff to be done uh and become some of them become global companies now by the way this can be funded by uh private capital and some of the large companies could go public public is a means to get capital into the system and also provide exits of some investors will will some companies go public i think the answer is yes and let me give you some statistics if you look at the number of companies which are funded private technology companies which are above 100 million valuation they're about 140 150 in the country right in the next 10 years to me another 50 60 companies will go public so why because they are large enough to go public and they want to remain independent okay the end of life of a fund sorry of a of a company is not to sell these companies want to go public because they want to build larger institutions over a period of time and they want to continue to be running for the next 20 25 years okay that's the reason why they go public and that market i think is emerging right so where so i mean e-commerce clearly is one place we're looking at where else do you see ipos happening no i mean we look at e-commerce surrounding e-commerce is delivery so some of the delivery companies could go public in the in the market space some of the health companies could go public in the market says we're large enough so i don't it's a sector issue i think you know we have a very large company in education by juice now it all depends on their board and what they want to do but is it right is it scaled enough for an ipo the answer is yes and i do hope they go public sure absolutely so this is so ipos probably for startups is something we have not seen so much uh so far but you know would you love to see you'll see definitely more yes so there's aditya gule who's asking what do you think is the future of educational content marketplaces in india post-covid um educational content is in for a revolution because traditional education content has been you know subscribed to books prescribed by somebody and so on and so forth but i think education content which is one is prescription based which is subscribed by courses and the other one is you know non-prescription based i think both are in for a big revolution because the consumption patterns of education content will become very different especially if regulations allow the option of online education you'll find content has to be delivered in a very different and much more efficient manner it can't be delivered you know you can't you can't take a book online and say this is all online it has to be different content uh it has to be consumed in a different way it has to have perhaps gaming in in scribe into it so i think there is there is enough technology intervention where education can be much more effective uh and especially content can be much more effective in the market space sure um you know we're coming almost to the end of the time but you know finally we'd love to know from you mr satie what what do you what are you what is your advice to startups who are today in very early stages of building a startup and they they're obviously facing some kind of you know and you cannot travel they cannot go out show and the products to the neither the venture capitalist nor the customer everything has to be done on the screen so obviously you know and they young on top of it you know they still don't have the tears of experience to run through it so what is what is your advice to them you know three pieces of advice that you can give to them to stay strong and to build the companies that they really want to number one don't give up i think this is this is a good time and so will be in the future number two uh i think the the uh the digital opportunity in content in communications in delivery of products and services both in b2b and b2c many of our companies are today are today correcting their sops on how to how to get new business where salespeople were required earlier so i think every challenge or every process which was there in building a company needs to be reviewed pre-covid to post-covid and see where digital intervention can take place you know where you have to hire sales people can you technology help where you have to have you know cure fit enhanced prepondits at home fitness products by six months and they're that's done very well they they're now testing the product in the u.s overall so i think the opportunity is very high just make sure you don't give up second fine tune the product in the service uh do a digital consumer and a digital consumption society um do look at options but also raise capital early there is nothing but a good company will get funded today whether it is through angels whether it is through vcs like us there is enough capital in the market go to families in the industrial families in the country they are looking for good opportunities to invest in okay and there are platforms available to do that so i think this is a great time but make sure you have adequate if not a little bit more capital than what you think okay don't worry about valuation beyond a point because if you have capital you can grow sure thank you very much that's very helpful mr satie and you know um the next time hopefully i'll decide this last time too but hopefully next time we meet in person and not on in the screen because you know i think i've everybody now six months down the line we've all missed meeting each other and great ideas and i think we've all sort of refreshed ourselves in certain ways uh when we have stayed at home and thought about our businesses uh by some procrastination there but at the end of the day some great ideas also coming out and new businesses looking to grow so thank you for joining us mr satie today and also thank you very much for the audience who joined us here today for this talk if you have more questions for mr satie or for charade ventures please keep on posting it at the link of facebook live so that we can ask somebody at charade to answer these questions for you and hopefully next time we meet in person and not in front of the screen as we get and down to building more businesses in digital india thank you once again mr satie thank you very much all the best and thank you to everybody bye-bye