 Wel gan y Toffy TV, joined by Ted, obviously, obviously, and Andy, the piv, is here. We're going to have a chat about Michael Keyne, who is in excellent form again. The question to you gentlemen, really, is this Michael Keyne's best run of form since joining from Burnley? Ted, let's start with you, because he hasn't always been your… Up a tea. Up a tea, as he nearly had time. But where do you stand on him now? Cos I know in the past you felt as though if he did kick on he could be like a Dave Watson type player. No, not exactly. But you know what I mean, that type of English strong centre back who played for us for a number of years. So where are you with him at the moment? I actually think he's probably more like Franz Beckham Bar now as a player. No, I think this season. I think he said to himself after the Walls game he said watch change and then the away wins and he said mentality. And I thought that was actually a really good way to use for him. I've always thought that one of his big problems was that he looked at times terrified, absolutely terrified. And for a while I think just the fact that he was an Everton player terrified him. And I mean that in the sense of he was just like I'm not good enough for this club, I'm not big enough for this club, no matter what anyone else feels about Everton. You know, he's come from Bailey being a man United, but I always feel like he's, you know, last season he started well and then he had that England game where he got done in the England game and you'd just seen the confidence drain out of him then. And it was almost, it was that idea of, it was just, you know, it was always about the confidence and he was, you know, he likes being that quiet person in the background and someone else may be leading the defence. And then what's happened since Carlo coming in, is Carlo's probably just gone to him. I've worked with some of the best defenders ever and you're not out of place in my thoughts of being a good defender. Okay, we own that list and he's not, he's not, he's not, he's clearly not Jesus, is he? He's not any, you know, he's not any of those plays he had at Milan, but he obviously recognises that there's a good defender in there and I think he's just told them, he's just said to them, you're really important, you're mind, I think he's made them, he's said to them, you're my number one centre back. And he's riding that now and hopefully, you know, that now signing a new contract, I'm hoping that that, that it's not just a confidence thing anymore, because this was always my big thing with them and that we discussed this loads of times. A player cannot get by on confidence. You cannot go from being brilliant to terrible just on what, how you're, what's in between your ears. You know, you can't, you just can't, you can't have a good career doing that and I think maybe in the last six months we've seen now him step up and whatever the problem was in the past, hopefully that's behind him, because now what we're seeing is a very good centre back who can play the ball out from the back and has got good strong leadership qualities as well. I mean, really by now Michael Keane should be our captain, he should be our absolute standout captain, there shouldn't be any question about it, but he's not and we have seen him take the armband so that's good as well, it means he's clearly developing, he looks more comfortable, even doing like things like interviews in front of the TV live, things like that, he looks a lot more comfortable, he looks happy in himself, so I'm delighted that he's, he's now, you know, proven to be a really top class centre back. Yeah, I mean Andy, it's been important to ask him, he bought him from, he was obviously good at Bayerly and, you know, we've discussed many a time, low block defender and, you know, dominates that and he likes it when he knows what he's doing, what his job is and I think Sean Dice was very, was very simple in what he wanted them to do. And then he came to Everton, got a big move to Everton, turned down a couple of clubs we know that at the time Liverpool wanted them, where we're interested in them and show them on United and I think maybe he thought he'd play more of Everton and he came to Everton and Ronald Coomber brought him in and obviously Ronald Coomber, he didn't really go the way Coomber wanted and he was out the door and then Keane got an injury and played injured and his career was a bit like that, but he did seem to get back on track with Keatruma and he had a good end to the season and like Peds had started the next season but then had that England game where he made a mistake and things like that and then his confidence at the beginning of last season his confidence just fell away and he played himself out the Everton side totally and then, and I remember Carlo did kind of bring him back in and put him in but then during lockdown, I brought this up a few times he said he had a conversation with his old man United, coach and his man United, new coach, told him to sort his feet out he said he'd just give me something dead simple when I'm defending and when I'm turning about the way I was moving with my feet and he really worked on that and since lockdown in general, I think he had a little dip for about three or four games round the United game I think he had a shot fall for a couple of goals in the court but other than that, since lockdown he's been in excellent form for Everton, hasn't he? That's a kind of mental being because in the past I've not been as big as I've been I'm quite critical with him in fact because of his shortcomings and I think the adaptation he's made from someone whose flaws were hid by John Deitch's system to someone now who's comfortable with the board as he's playing out from the back to be wrong, in a higher line I've still got a couple of questions about him but he's shown at times the season of these people on the run man and he's been really close to Sweden to be captain for Everton and I just think he lacks that personality type I don't think he's aggressive enough I don't think he's just, I think Dave Watson I think he's just a leader he's tough, you can look to him I don't think he's quite that type but I think he is a good defender I think it's a zed on everything he's good 1v1 I don't like him defending in space but I think you can limit that when you've got it to players that hold it and go free out wide covering it so I think he's been excellent he probably will be the season for free players we've gone on a lot since last season and I think we'll make and continue I don't know, I think the major thing is to maintain this level now and don't have those dips and here being the England squad for the Euros it's not that that really matters to us but it'd be good for him to get that nod because I think Harry Maguire obviously is the England's number one centre half of that type but he has his own dips in form whether you like him or not he can be quite good at times that's the main thing there's that key thing he was good under Sean Dice who basically has a defensive structure and it's quite simple where you are you mark that area do you think the fact that Carlo Antelotti is coming in you hear players say this all the time he just keeps things simple do you think that that's benefit of Michael Key and the fact that he has maybe just made it more simplistic his job in the team yeah but I don't think it is that simplistic though is it because we've seen the way the systems change when we play and we know what he requires out on Michael Key especially with the ball at his feet as well so I don't think it is that simple because we like to play out from the back we're one of these teams who likes playing these short goal kicks if I was a player like what Michael Key is supposed to be I would never want the goalkeeper to give me the ball I'd be terrified and there was a time I'd be terrified and I think that's where he's evolved and I agree absolutely with Andy Wett the system absolutely shoots him at the moment but what I would say is that if the system changes and you put pace next to him I think he's in the right headspace to adapt his own game and that might be the thing of like I'll adapt my game I don't have to worry about the guy next to me or the guy next to him or the guy in front of me they have to do they have to just take pace or responsibility for what they're doing but I'm sure there are little things that he's simplified in terms of like over-thinking things because Michael Key is actually a good footballer his passing range is really really good he comes out with the ball really confidently he holds off plays because he's big you don't see him too often he doesn't like he... Fe dweud o'n fiyctaf o uned i'nneyfydd, fe dda'n oedd eraill yn amlwg yрев. Mae dweud o'n mynd ich chi yw ymwhath yn blaen, gan ymwyaf ar gyfer mynd arno deall? Ond mae'n e'n neud yn rhai so, mae'n rhaid o'n rhaid o'n fyrus, oedd o'n rhaid i'n rhaid o'n rhaid o'n rhaid o'n rhaid o'n rhaid o'n rhaid o'n rgu. ychydig. Mae'n amgylch, mae'n yn cael ei gennych. Tog efallai wedi bod gennych hwn yn gondol a chynghwyl. Mae'r cymdeithas yma, mae fe deithio gw'n ei gŷn yn grannu. Mae'n mynd i'n gwirio'n gondol. Mae'n cenderdoedd yn newydd gan yno i chi ddaethol. Mae'n oed fel felly am fynd i chi. Mae'n bach o'r fath oahu'n gwirio. Mae'n mynd i chi'n ei ganditionu. Mae'n bach adnod fel ei fod yn 80 o'r hyn. Mae'n bach o'i wneud, yn ymweld amswnol. As well. You know, Carlisle, Carlisle. The funny thing about Carlisle is, by working with great defenders, he will have laid off them as well. It's not always a one way street. If you're watching great defenders every day and training, it sometimes goes back to the coach, the coach is laying things off them that he can pass on to somebody else. You know, we've seen this with Moise. You know, obviously Phil Jagellke taught Moise everything he knew about defending and he took that to Manchester United and reaffirmed that to Rio Ferdinand. Sometimes that happens where you can imagine if you're working with someone like Maldini o Berezio, any of the great defenders you worked with over the years. Even someone like John Terry. You will have seen things that he can pass on to him. Let's be honest, there's only so many things in football, nothing's really going to take you by surprise. You see a situation and you've seen that a thousand times before, you can go in and go right, this is what we did when we were with this player. Can you imagine talking to a defender and going, yeah, this is what we used to do with this amazing centre back. This is what we did. You could do that. You'll get the same benefits out of this. Exactly, you'll get the same benefits that this guy did. And that can only build confidence, I think as well. And every time Carlo says, yeah, Michael King is amazing, blah, blah, blah, if I was playing there, I'd be feeling ten full tall because knowing of Carlo Ancelotti's track record as well. And also, one other thing, is Carlo Ancelotti evidently going places if they keep going on this trajectory. You want to be part of it, otherwise you're going back to Burnley and nobody wants to go back to Burnley. I think that's right, isn't it? It's Carlo Ancelotti and he's had Maldini, Costa Cater, Berezzi, Sezio Ramos, Tiago. You can just keep saying centre backs that he's had because he's had some great Cullabali even recently. So he's had good centre backs he's worked with for the majority of his career, hasn't he? And so, when he is telling you things, you're going to listen and that respect is there. And I think Michael King, you know, just so for scores right in forum this season, 7.13, he's won 70% of his duels, aerial duels, 16 games, three goals, 89% passing accuracy across that game. I mean, you'll have more stats there that you'll be able to tell me. So he's doing really well, isn't he? Yeah, I've got some stats here. To be honest with you, I think with them a feel being better this season and are under pressure as much in terms of facing defensive duels. In terms of defensive duels, he's won nearly 72%, which puts him in the top 25% in the league. So you've got two centre backs, so there's 40 centre backs who play in the league. Michael King is in the top 25%, which is good. That's where you want to be. You want to be one of the better defenders in the league, even some of the best defenders are not even that high. That is good. Aerial duels, like you say, 70%. I think the only mean is the only player left who's just slightly bit ahead in both, but much better on the ball and meaner this season in terms of a passing accuracy, 90%. His long ball accuracy is 56%. This is, by the way, all before the game with Mike because they don't have the up-to-date ones. His progressive passing accuracy is nearly 70%, which means where he's playing through the lines, he's doing accurately and well. And it's deep completions, so deep completions passes that goes up within 20 yards of the goal, which again, like Ped said, he's been able to switch play so well and drive us forward in some scenes where Stan that lovely ball for Dominic Calvert-Lewm when he scored. And I think that's something he's added to his game because apparently it was really just to fill out, you know what I mean, and where is it ever. And I think that's where Carlo comes in because he doesn't know it's a man-mire's place. I think Mark O'Silver tried to overcomplicate a lot of things there, which didn't help. And I think playing with the Ronald Coom and having a centre back must be hell on wheels because he's one of the best devs to play the position. I can imagine he's really quite tough. And for Mike Alkeen, I think he is a player who needs the right sort of love. I don't think he's someone who enjoys the tougher side of things. So I think Carlo's probably the perfect manager for him in that sense. It's a bit of benefit to him without being too harsh on him. The fact that his best form has come when there's been no supporters in any of the stadium. I'm a being a little bit, I like Michael Keen and people who watch this channel will know that I've championed him most of the time. He's a good defender and I think sometimes there was other factors which took away from his game. But there was also times when his own confidence, like Ped said, led him down and he looked terrified in some games. But I'm just wondering, is that playing any part in it? Or is it really what we're saying is because of Carlo Ancelotti and because of the advice and because of wanting to do well? Because he's a lad who really wants to do well for Everton, isn't he? He's a lad I think who looks at Everton and thinks, this is the best I'm going to get without being disrespectful to him or us. This is the best I'm going to get and these are going places and I want to be part of that. We've seen that by him signing the contract and some of the extensions. So am I being a little bit, you know, is that any way, the fact that you think, the fact that there isn't fans in the stadium? I think it is. Go on. I was just going to say Carlo said after the game on Wednesday night, Tuesday night sorry. He was asked about the away record and he said there's no fans, he said it changes the mentality. And I think at the beginning, I think that would have helped them. Hopefully now it's not a case but I think at the beginning it will have and the longer it's gone on. Help change is all round mental state on everything. And I think if you inserted fans back in now, hopefully it would all be fine. Well, you're one of the lucky ones who have actually been to the game. Luck played no part in it, Baz. Well, not if you believe it yet. But, you know, in the last 10 months and he was outstanding that night when we beat Chelsea. He was absolutely brilliant that night, you know, up against the likes of Timo Wain and people like that, you do. But yeah, Andy, I mean, you know, for him to do what he's doing and then to continue that and put himself in a position now where when you're talking about who should start a centre back. I think a lot, most evertonians would say Michael Keane and then it may be Ben Godfrey. It may be yet, he mean that it may be Mason Holgate. But I think Michael Keane, for a lot of blues at the moment, would be kind of the first name on the sheet if it's a centre back, wouldn't he? Yeah, I think so. You know, I think just on the new fans, I think this is a conversation I've had with work. I think I've heard other director of footballs and people in recruitment talk about this. It is a worry. The players, I think Michael Keane's got at least a previous form where you can go, he has played well, I'd say, in points where fans have been there. I think those players who haven't played as well and then suddenly have turned up in this form, I think strikers have been the main one who's starting to score goals with other people there. I think that's a worry for people. But I think as long as they can maintain or go above the levels that are at now, will be in a good position. I think yes, I think what he is, the number one centre back on the list for Carlo anyway. I think some people may be quibbled at Mary, Yeri Mina. Unfortunately for Yeri Mina, there's been one or two high profile mistakes that Evertonians seem to grip on to and can't let go off because they were wired since one of those things. But I think both of them, as we've discussed before, the best centre back pair and we've got in terms of the numbers, we can see the least goals with them as a pair. And I think go off free and missing all these, I've got a job to get in the team, which is good. I think there should be no, as we've talked about, you said the other day about there should never be a player who's guaranteed a starting spot in the team. I think it's good that we've got competition, we've got all the best teams, we've got four good centre backs and I think we're getting there now as long as the other two behind them develop well. The funny thing about that is it just reminds me of when Stubbs and We were in the side and Yobo was trying to break in. And it felt like you wanted Yobo in the team because he was this brilliant international player that other teams have been sniffing round. But Moise was just like, no, these are our best two centre backs, these do exactly what I want and this lad will just have to wait his turn. And that was just the way it was. And that's what it feels like at the moment. It feels like you've got Mason Hulgate and Ben Goff, who are doing brilliantly as full backs. And they're like, you know, people looking at going home. You've got to find a way to play them in the team with the managers. These are clearly the best two. This is the best partnership. And it might be that, you know, it might be that what everyone wants or what from the outside it might seem like it's like it's perfect, but it works. And while it works, you keep going with something, you just keep going. And there will be a time when you have to revolve it. And, you know, with age, you know, the factors where it has to revolve. And hopefully that's why both of them like Ben Goffy is younger than Mason Hulgate. But Mason Hulgate is still learning. And, you know, if it's not broke, don't, you know, don't have to fix it. I think that's it. It's a really important point, isn't it, that we do as fans. We all have an idea in our head. Do our best 11 is the way and what we'd like to see. And we're all going with the whole keen, you know, someone like Goffrey alongside keen with the pace and then you've got Michael Keane. The manager, they look at everything, they look at the stats, they look at what they're doing in training, they're showing up every day. And if it's meaner and keen, and they're glad to, we're getting us the results. Andy, we've said it before and I know we're going to do the numbers game for Python next week and we'll have a look at it as well, but whether people like it or not, keen and meaner are our best friends, the best partnership, aren't they, in terms of us not conceding goals? The facts don't lie, do you think? Yeah, whether people think they haven't got enough pace or there's a mistake in the pair, at the end of the day, I think Michael Keane and Keane are slightly better, but they play less games than the two now. So the two now are much further ahead than what other partnerships are. I think all these did well last season, but when he played earlier this season and he was injured, he didn't really, when he came back in, show that he was still at the same level as last season, he has to get back to that. I think, you know, I think fans often, you know, go moving. It is, I suppose it's sexy to have Ben Godfrey, this new player, who puts his swashbuck on tackles and makes these great runs in, but Ben Godfrey's got questions around him, it's sent him back, that he still needs to sort out his position. And that's, and I think playing left back, like with Julian Lescott, will only help him this year at this level. I think that does help him develop. Leighton Bain's a big example of someone who had to wait his time because he couldn't get on the side. So I think as long as you've got competition in every place, I think the manager will have options in certain games that will go far to the frontier. I'm going to dig some, I'm going to make some holidays and Ben Godfrey is the centre back then. If that may happen, you're going to see that. And I think that's what we've got to do, we've got to understand that no one's guaranteed a start on the spot, but at this moment in time, until Meenol and Keane start making mistakes, they're going to stay as a centre back partnership. Definitely, I mean, Ped, I know you're not really that bothered, but just from it, no, no, the question. In general, no, no, just from it, you know, I've seen this mentioned by other people this week. He's got a great chance of getting back in that England team, hasn't he? You know, we're not really that bothered by that, but for a personal thing, for him as a personal... Yeah, I always think... Reward, it's good for him, isn't it? Yeah, I always think it's a personal thing. It never keeps a player happy, whether we like it or not. You know, it keeps a player happy and that's what the players are striving for. I always think as well, if players are... if players can feel like opportunities are not coming their way because they're at everything, then you have to worry about that sometimes, whether that's their big thing, I don't know. But no, he does... he desires to run. When you watch people like Connor Cody, and I like... I think Connor Cody is a good player, I really do. I think he's got that little bit of intensity that I've always wanted maybe Michael Keane to have. But when I watch him and I see him starting for England, I think you're not better than Michael Keane. You know, Harry Maguire is a good defender, he's a good leader, and that's what he has over Michael Keane as well. But if you're looking at form, Michael Keane's in great form, absolutely great form. And you know, I know it depends what you play, if you play three at the back. I think if you play three at the back, Michael Keane will be great in England three at the back because he's so comfortable on the ball. And I think he's laying from his mistakes. I think he's probably when he's played for England rather than when he's played forever to maybe do things that he shouldn't do. And if he's got them out of his system, if he's a little bit calmer, a little bit cooler, I think he'd be fine. So hopefully he is, hopefully he does go to the Euros. I think he'd easily deserve it when you see the other players out there who seem to get in ahead of them. But I think he's definitely in the managers' thinking. I think he'll go to the Euros, whether he starts, I don't know. Yeah. Just on, I think the issue for a lot of it, you know, for every player's unfortunate, playing Europe, so as a chance brighter on you because you've played at the highest level, so McGuire and others who play at Europe seems to get picked over. But let's be honest, England's centre-back options are of the highest colour. But I think Michael Keane should be up there at least for the show, but if it's based on his form, I don't think there's any well-classed centre-backs currently for England, so he has to be in the mix at the finalist. I mean, and, Pett, isn't it a good thing, any, from a personal thing for Everton? Not necessarily England now, but just from Everton's perspective. Michael Keane does really want to do well for Everton, and us, his fans have bemoaned and still bemoaned some players in our squad who we feel don't really care about us as a club. And, yeah, this is a lot of that. I think, like Jerry Maynard, I think Maynard's the same, but, you know, Michael Keane really wants to do well for Everton Football Club. He wants to give his all, and I think he loves being at Everton, doesn't he? And that's something we show back, isn't it, really? Yeah, it seems that way. He is like one of those old-fashioned players who's willing to spend, you know, same amount of time at a club. Let's be honest, he's an absolute dream of a professional footballer. You know, he's not, you know, he isn't going to rob a taxi and put it through a KSC at five in the morning, is he? Gareth Barry. Gareth Barry wasn't this kind of player in 2017. No, he's an absolute dream, isn't he, for the club and for the manager to be like that. And, yeah, he's signed a new contract. I'd expect him to hang around, probably for the better part of his career. And, yeah, he's a good ambassador. I think Everton fans will always value those kind of people as human beings. And, you know, it always helps when someone gives you a Daphnic name, as well, and the club play into that and all that kind of thing. And I think that, you know, he's got the play-up, people on social media and stuff, and the club do the play-up to this, like, think this nickname and stuff, which clearly is like, he's just like the dead quiet, he's the quietest man in the room. But if you build this persona, then sometimes that helps people, as well. So it's got that. Yeah, I've already got this persona. Fans are already playing into me. I've got this person. I've got this person. I've got this person. Fans are already playing into me. So if I just play up to that a little bit, then the job's done, where sometimes if you're trying to find a play, we want all our plays to have a little bit of personality in them. But if it's not there and someone invents it for them and everyone plays up to it, then it sort of works. I just think he just seems like a dead nice fella. We see him out in America when he went to George's out and he cuts his hair and all that. We had a game of football with his lad. Just because he's an unashuman centre. Just a nice lad. But Andy, just finally then, with that being said, is he someone that can get better at everything or at his peak, do you think? Can he get better with because of that experience or does he need for you? Does he need to develop those leadership qualities in terms of not necessarily his performances? Because I think he's doing that now. That little bit of being able, being confident enough to pull people into position and point and have a go with people. Do you think he's just better getting on with what his job is? I don't think you'll ever be that player, if I'm honest, but I think he can improve in the sense that he keeps minimising those mistakes then. You'll stay in the editing team and I think you're right with experience. I don't think he really. He had a bit of an on-off starter was great because he was in the Man United Observatory a long time, wasn't he? I think as he ages he will get better and I think the more he plays and the more confidence he gets at the best of your play. I think it's a point he can improve but I think if he can stay at this level now I think he'll be in a good position. Definitely. Definitely. Anything to add, Ped, before we finish? Someone riding a horse called Ben Godfrey he's just won a race so everyone's happy on Twitter now. Until Michael Keane can do that then I'm going to always have me reservations about the play, you know what I mean? Although Harry McGuire actually has the horse riding him so there is an advantage. There you go. Let's leave it there then. Let us know what you think in the comment section below is Michael Keane. What are your thoughts on him? Has he changed? Are you one of those people who have been like that? Andy had some reservations about Michael Keane has he changed then? Do you love Michael Keane or do you still think Everton can do better? I think he's been brilliant and if he carries on like this then why would there be any question marks over Michael Keane? Make sure you give this video a thumbs up subscribe if you haven't and if you want more videos including daily live videos get over and join us on Patreon like lots of you already have. Thanks for watching. See you later.