 All right we'll call the meeting to order before we get started just if anybody hasn't signed in for the meeting feel free to do so over there either now or on the way out just so that we make sure that everybody was recorded in there for this evening and then once we get going because I'm sure a lot of you here for one or two topics this evening just make sure that when it's your opportunity to speak that you make sure that you say your name so that we have it for the record so first on the agenda is to approve the agenda is any additions or are we good to approve as we need to add the bar had sent in a second request to cater so I was thinking we could just add it when you do their other one okay so we'll add a second catering license to under the babes bar request I can't see but is there any place to just bring up other topics yeah okay so other than the babes addition anything else I just need a motion to approve as amended so move second okay all in favor all right on there okay so so this evening we've done the public comment first we don't have any appointments this evening other than the rest of everything that we're going to do is going to be agenda items so the public comment period is an opportunity to speak about a topic that's not on the agenda for this evening so now would be your chance if you have anything just raise your hand I'll I'll select you and then just make sure that you just state your name for the record and we are coming to you as concerned citizens of fire lane number one and what was your name I prefer to remain anonymous because the individual who is causing the issues on our road seeks retaliation in the form of physical violence as Sean can attest I don't know if you're aware of the multiple zoning violations the Bethel Town bylaws owning violations that are happening on fire lane I submitted a letter in November that listed them it is four pages long for this individual Joel Gowan and things have escalated since then and the town has done nothing and we were advised by the police this week to come speak at this like board meeting to raise the issue and make something happen because nothing is happening and now he has been resorting to violence and verbal assaults physical threats and the police can't do anything for Sean tried to defend himself and now it's also facing charges because they are both considered at fault we can see defend it himself and it is really we don't feel safe on our road we can't let our son out he can't ride his bike he can't you know we have to change his school bus stop so that he wouldn't even be seen by this individual because it was scary and now we're I mean we had police this past week police have to keep coming up I just wanted to add that one of the major issues that we face on fire lane has been an issue for a long time and it's one that we all kind of went into knowing full well that we live on a private road that is not maintained by the town and we all understand the consequences I guess that that carries however that's also become this legal gray area for us to endure where he literally acts with impunity on this road and does whatever he wants whenever he wants Oscar cannot and will not touch him he rides dirt bikes four-wheelers he was doing doughnuts in front of Sean's open garage and throwing rocks and dirt in I mean it's really a problem and what can the town do about it he has put a septic in down there sometimes since April 3rd they moved it in and they've been living their full time in it with no power no septic no running water it's all violations so we we did contact the state enforcement officer who does septic because the town of Bethel doesn't have septic regulations you have to adhere to the state so Dan Mason is his name so Kelly told me about I think you some someone called and I want to say it was it was sometime last week anyways and first of all I just want to say I'm so sorry to hear about what's going on and so we did call Dan and he is very good he lives in you know this area so he will definitely go up and pay a visit and figure out the septic issue we are happy to pursue zoning violations I had talked to Oscar about something and a while ago about what was going on up there and unfortunately you're right because it's become the sleep it is a legal gray area usually when people share property like that a lot of times they enter into a road maintenance agreement so everybody who lives there so unfortunately obviously it's a legal situation so you guys are doing totally the right thing by calling the police as often as you need to but as far as the right of way and that that's nothing the town can touch because it's a civil matter because it's a dispute between property owners unfortunately but I am certainly I don't remember seeing the four page letter about zoning that I would love it thank you and I will definitely see what was happening in November okay and I know there's more because I have spoken myself with Oscar we talked about a couple things so I will definitely we can do is we find that there's owning in port in fractions and we send a letter and they but I will tell you here's what happens it becomes a notice of alleged violation which goes in the land records it's not a big weighty thing it can eventually go to a fine but you know what happens people don't pay it it becomes this whole situation but it doesn't mean we don't take it seriously and that we can't do it but it's not going to shut down anything you know what I mean that's possibly happening there in a quick hurry with a violation they can't be like forced off the land because they live I think that if I don't remember that section zoning off top of my head but I feel like if the owner of the land which is them has permission then I think their camper can stay there for a specific period of time but like so many days there's already a house there can be a camper in the yard okay I have to reread but if it's just raw land with no facilities you cannot live in a camp okay then but then it's like I said I'll go through it because I am quite sure there's more than one violation so we certainly will send the certified letter and go through the steps but it's not like I said an overnight thing because what we have to do is we have to go to court so then it becomes an enforcement issue for us so we're in the same boat you are it's legal there's no no one has an authority to go up and like throw anyone off their property of course we need to tell rooms absolutely and we're happy to do that but as far as the the road that's you know a legal situation and and I know that Oscar had been up there and I'm sure he's probably given you his number to hold up and he doesn't answer and he's in bad reception and it takes him three days to get back to us and it's just not you know and calling the police it takes them an hour like Shawna was bloody last Wednesday night has a broken eye socket and the police still took an hour to get there state police yes yeah that's what are we supposed to do that's part of the word prisoners in our own homes up there and that's part of the problem about having such a part-time constable is we don't have you know we have two constables and they both are full time with their own agencies and some of them at least last I knew one of them was on mandatory OT on his job so I know so then it becomes the state police and however they have a duty is how long they get there and it's not a perfect system we have talked about the select board or the select board has talked about you know increasing policing increasing that budget and trying to figure out you know how to do it and whether you contract with somebody so many hours a week or you hire a full-time officer they're what but still they're not going to cover 24-7 but I mean we definitely like like Teresa was saying we do have some discussions coming up in regards to what are we going to do in our town when it comes to our policing because you know we were so fortunate for such a long period of time that we're able to share resources with neighboring towns you know we would have a constable that would be part-time in like two or three different towns but now we don't have that and it's it's very hard to find anybody do anything part-time right because they could go do something full-time because there's so many full-time positions available so it's definitely one thing that we do have we had sent out a questionnaire I don't know did you guys end up getting a questionnaire in regards to they got mailed out with well they got mailed out with the town reports I'm sorry it was in there where you could know we had like six or seven topics on there yeah but just trying to get feedback on what people would like to see and so we will be exploring that prior to budget time because you know we got to figure out one way or another you know are we gonna budget in a full-time person are we gonna keep doing what we're doing or do something different so so we will do that and you know I'm sorry about the unfortunate situation that you're in one thing I'd like to do or hear back from you is you know let's give Teresa the opportunity to look into whatever violations that may be there and then you know if we don't meet again for two weeks so I guess in fairness if you give us two weeks to kind of look through this and see what we can do and you know I I know from you know doing things with like the the Board of Health and things like that is sometimes things that you and I would perceive as like really easy fixes have like a lot of red tape with it and take a lot of time. If you want to write your e-mail up. We'll try. If you want to write your e-mail up just so you're happy with it. Yeah okay. And the good thing I will say about Dan is Dan is an enforcement officer I mean he comes as law enforcement agency agent carrying the gun I mean this is a he is an officer and he will he's been excellent about looking at any about anything we've sent him so far I'm not necessarily regarding your private anything you know we've sent other way advocate that he bring other law enforcement at least Oscar with him because it is a dangerous situation up there. Okay well definitely when did you get a hold of Dan. I didn't get a hold of Dan but the health town health officer did. Okay I'll make a note to him. He copied me in the deputy. He copied me on the e-mail. Also regards to the property lines down there does the town have any mechanism for checking to be sure that he's remaining within his property lines. He's approaching on he's approaching like three different properties. One neighbor reached out to Kelly and she did give them some information like property tax maps and stuff. If your property or the adjoining properties are not surveyed then it's you know there could be a little bit of margin for error just because once someone has an actual survey when they're doing the tax maps they put it on there but a neighbor did ask and also the gentleman the gentleman a question also contacted Kelly and she explained that to him that he was encroaching on other people's property. As a side note the other piece of property that is between his property and the complainant that you're referencing currently is one of the ones that was just sold at tax sale Bob he's fully on that piece of property like it's his right now. And currently it's actually won't be Bob's for a full year. I will ask the town attorney what we do about that. It's really it's unfortunately it's a really tough situation because it just you would think that it'd be an easy solution. We don't have the enforcement to walk on someone's land even if they're building illegal they say they're putting up a huge building. I mean we can't go in and you know there's nothing to say like you had to stop right now you know or we're setting the gospel or something that doesn't work that way other than we we can penalize them for building without a permit you know I mean but it's their property go out for tax sale. No no go to environmental court. Yeah zoning is a whole different wall wax. Yes unfortunately the you know it sounds awful but my my biggest recommendation would be to every time something happens dial 911 do not call Oscar do not wait for the constable dial 911 because they also told us they don't want to be up there every day too so yeah but you know what you call they'll go and it's it's yeah so I will talk to the town attorney about that tax sale property my guess is he's going to tell me that because it's private property and we may not have any reach but another property that was almost for tax sale that is now you know going to be developed on our road but there's a between joles and that other almost tax sale property there is a piece that that's where Joel's building his septic and he's been cutting trees so it's a really and that'll be Dan so I'll make sure I call him tomorrow morning the the other thing too is that I'm sure the state police probably told you that about putting no trespassing signs or orders of no trespass or any of your legal opportunities available to you. One issue that we've been enduring is that they this the dirt bike four-wheeler trespassing spills over on to another piece of property and again because they're not present to post their land we're all left to just deal with it. We're trying to get permission to post that land but even after it's posted you know you call in to say oh there's dirt bikes and four-wheelers driving aggressively and trespassing on this land how long does it take the cops to show up and then they can't prove it and we don't want to go onto the land and get caught videoing him right he's gonna come feed us up. Right you have to ask yeah permission from the current land owner about posting or maybe if they know what's going on they would come up and post it themselves. Yeah you could get a hold of Kelly she might have some contact information for them. We don't know. Oh alright. This started this started last September he closed on the property on August 25th and there started to be problems within a week of him buying this piece of land and you know I called police for the first time on September 29th last year because he was screaming at me in the woods. I mean it's just horrible. I'm so sorry you're going through that. We will I will look through this I'll send you an email I'll get a hold of Dan and tell him your suggestions that he doesn't come alone and that and I'll talk to the town attorney about encroaching on the other land and and maybe they have some idea of something else that we can do that I'm not legally aware of if so I'll certainly let you know or if they have any suggestions for you all we'll certainly pass them along okay I was just this morning contact okay and he's usually pretty quick turn around so we'll then Dan will you know if there's septic violations he'll the state will take it seriously and we'll come in and deal with it so but I will definitely call him and I appreciate you thinking of his safety and I'll let him know you said that. Is it rude if we leave now that he's still in our case? No, it's not at all. It's not. It's all a tour. Sean I hope that you feel better. Thank you. Good luck. So Lindley is on I just made sure she's waving I just made sure that she could hear us okay. Got ya. Alright. I took a meeting tomorrow at 9 a.m. with he asked about the right road ditching project we got a grant for that and which I have a meeting tomorrow morning with Morgan and Rita and Alan May the better roads guy and so we haven't written the RFP yet and Morgan's you know Reed and I had scoped it so we need to get him up there and get at stake and I can't remember the date of when the work has to be done by but anyways but we have a meeting at 9 a.m. tomorrow to talk about it so. At the office and just to go over the layout of the project. I just wanted you to come and do the big ditches from the bridge of all of my house about through to where my uncle lives. Have you got to put the big ditches in there? I have to honestly it's been a while since I looked at the scope once I get it are once I see the scope again I'll make a note to email it to you because I honestly I'd hate to say something to you not be right so let me make a note to email you the scope. No it's true yeah I'm because we were really it was this side of Therans your side of Therans and kind of just the hill and you know where it's currently just going down into the river and I feel like there was a culvert in there but like I said it's been a while but I'll email you the scope. I'm requested that we didn't do by him this year one of them up near the top I forget her name right the second and we have tried to do some roads and not others because we didn't have the full budget to do all the roads we've increased it a little bit from prior year to this year and but I remember that right was excluded huh I'd have to look there's a spreadsheet and so I will make sure that you guys are on the for next year but the league lives on by him and I Earl Earl Marcellair. That sounds right and plus two honestly we were trying to find some places not to do so we could add places we hadn't done in years so we didn't have the budget to do all mileage of roads so no he was up there he did be did by him because she called upset about something last year yeah but I'll I'll make a note for Morgan about next year's yeah yeah she we okay I'll make sure so so we have the anyways I'll make a note add right road next year road side mowing I'm going to make a request that you speak clearly loudly because the person taking the minutes is on Zoom and so she needs to you need to be picked up by the microphone and you need to be to identify yourself please okay any any other public comment other than what's on the agenda this evening anybody else I assume I'm on the agenda yes you're next all right so hearing none we will move on to our first agenda item so we'll just kind of back up and give a little overview to anybody that wasn't here last time so so we had started to talk about at the last meeting in regards to artificial flowers at the cemeteries and it there was a decision that was made around Memorial Day to to put some signage up requesting that artificial flowers not be brought to the cemeteries anymore as what what's been happening is you know we have we have one cemetery commissioner that oversees all the cemeteries so and that and the commissioner does way more than than his job and you know he oversees several cemeteries a year so this isn't like a day-to-day opportunity you know he's not on the ground boots on the ground even though he is often so so he had requested that that artificial flowers not be brought up to the cemeteries anymore as often they become very difficult to deal with and the maintenance and the things either routine maintenance throughout throughout the year or at the end of the year or you know if there's a you know a bad storm or something and the flowers get displaced so so he requested that in in the meantime we've also had looked and there is a far majority of cemeteries all across our area that don't allow artificial flowers at cemeteries anymore so so one thing that we had thought was when we put the signage up was that we weren't reinventing the wheel this was something that a lot of cemeteries have gone to over the past X amount of years and we're trying to you know obviously it's a volunteer basically position so so that was the decision that was made and and obviously yeah we'll get time for everything so just for anybody that wasn't here that was kind of our thing was to go from right now our policy our policy states you know that basically everything's allowed unless it's unsightly now unsightly to Aaron is different than unsightly to me or or Jean or anybody else right we all have a different definition on it so right now it's kind of a very loose definition of what that means so I guess what we were going towards was not allowing obviously artificial flowers still allowing to you know to bring in real flowers plant real flowers in some cases different shrubs or other things that there can be exceptions made as well so one thing I just want to make sure tonight because we talked about this two weeks ago is you know it's obviously it's an emotional topic to talk about you know we want to celebrate the lives of loved ones that are no longer with us and but we also have to make sure that we're respectful so the only way we're going to get through this is to have a constructive conversation so constructive means we're all done with the finger pointing and the yelling and screaming now we have to come up if we do want artificial flowers and here's the opportunity to say you know we would really like to have the artificial flowers and this is how we can help or this is how we can make this work because if we just go back and forth and point fingers tonight we're not gonna get anywhere or it's going to become a board's decision that maybe nobody likes so I want to open it up to everybody okay but when we're speaking tonight I want everybody to make sure that we're being super respectful to everybody and make sure that we're having a constructive conversation and then what just like anything when you when you do speak just make sure we know your name say it a little loudly or at least say it so I can hear it and I can repeat it and then before anybody speaks a second time if needed now I just want to make sure that everybody has an opportunity to speak one time so that sound fair to everybody okay so I'm trying to respond to Lindley but it's giving me hard time so we had we had moved it from an appointment last last meeting to this time to an agenda item because agenda item then we often can make decisions on do we want to change the the policy from right now it just reads on slightly to do we want to you know include things like our artificial flowers or do we want to rule that out completely so I guess that's kind of where we'd like to go so I will start with the hand in the back make sure Mr. Oh Mr. Isham I'll get you Mr. Isham number two my name is Elizabeth Bridge I was at the last meeting and you stated that you had done your homework and that several places in the area did not allow artificial flowers is that correct yes okay I have something I would like to present to the select board if you do not mind you can you can see bring up Sharon Rochester Sharon Stockbridge Southbrook and September no signs they all accept artificial flowers okay so I'm not sure where so is this constructive that's I guess is where I'm getting at because this sounds pretty argumentative to me now this is constructive what I'm saying is because you didn't give me the opportunity to bring all my my things that I know I'm giving you the opportunity to bring your stuff I'm just presenting that we did go around we did check theories and that there are no signs that say no artificial flowers and they all have artificial flowers on them thank you those the only town did you get the veteran cemetery while you around the veteran cemetery allows them but they do remove it within a week Sharon okay so what is your proposal on so being that this is a constructive meeting tonight so your proposal is obviously that you would like to see artificial flowers in the cemetery so in lieu so in lieu of adding the artificial flowers what are you or others willing to do to compensate for helping with the maintenance and the upkeep and keeping this stated at the last meeting I would be more than willing to drive around to the Bethel cemeteries my mom and I ride around all the time I would be willing to go I would be willing to check if any of them are tipped over if there's anything that is scattered anywhere I can pick up we do it at my dad's hearing the cemetery in Bethel we take our own garbage bag we put our own flowers in and we take them home and dispose of them thank you Bucky okay first of all I just want to comment that many years ago there was a basketball backboard on that wall and one on this wall and I was coaching the victim boys and girls basketball and this is where we played the game and I just impressed I may have been in here once but I don't remember I'll try to keep this brief and I've got notes so I can stay on topic thank you for giving me the time and I thank my grandson for bringing me because I don't drive anymore we purchased our cemetery locked in late 1970s at that time I was presented with rules and regulations of the cemetery dated Bethel 1975 and it says again put on the glasses excuse me the following rules and regulations for town cemeteries are based on authority granted the select men acting as commissioners of said cemeteries under section 4044 of the revised laws of Vermont 1947 edition and then it goes on there's a lot of stuff in here I won't into that commissioners the duly elected select men of the town of Bethel sex the appointed representative of the commissioners commonly known as the cemetery form and then it tells about the lots and the prices and everything and then item 2 in section 3 it says all artificial flowers placed on lots in any town cemetery shall be removed by July 10th annually I don't know why it was July 10th but it is so anyway that's from the this 50 years ago almost 50 years ago that I was given that I would expect there have been a lot of revisions to this as the years have gone on I assume that the select board has still acting as the commissioners and I am assuming that you were the ones who made the decision of no artificial flowers and the phone carried those out or the sex anyway our daughter died in 1981 a granddaughter a few years later since then we've always put on real flowers in front of our stone except this year this year things are different because of health conditions and I've already mentioned I do not drive anymore we had to change our plans so we decided to place some artificial two artificial sprays on the cemetery law my daughter law took me down we placed this phrase there was another person in the cemetery at that time and said did you realize that you can't use those artificial flowers and no I guess I didn't see the sign so we picked up the artificial flowers I said a short silent prayer thanking God for the merit for the lives of our granddaughter and daughter and I we left the cemetery when I got home I called Teresa after I'd had a chance to get my thoughts in mind and Teresa's very polite and she listened to my frustration and she also indicated that there'd been some other I don't know how many people that had expressed their frustration every year since we were married we travel up north to the Northeast Kingdom my wife's parents and relatives are buried in the Peacham and Danville Cemetery then we go over to Concord where my parents and relatives are buried and also London so there's four cemeteries none of them have any law that I know many artificial flowers so I call the town managers I said the cemetery which really looks pretty nice after Memorial Day with the flowers artificial and real the veterans flags the flaments flags this year except for those flags and the monuments that cemetery looked like a desert you could look around and see an occasional geranium or some baton yes but they were few and far between and it was just it was sickening to me that's why I guess I got upset I tried not to be when I took call to raise so here is the end of my dissertation if the artificial flowers are such a big problem perhaps the fellow who knows that you pay to mow the cemetery or even a student could be paid at the end of the summer to clean up the cemetery the money that was spent on those signs could have been used to pay for that this year I don't know maybe we need to have a go from me account but I am asking the select board to please reconsider this decision thank you yes yes thank you for years I have put flowers on my mom and dad's and now my husband is there I put them on his and my relatives are there this year put them on my mom and they were taken off I can't say it any better than that gentleman right there the cemetery really looked bad Memorial Day there was no colorful to it and other people noticed it too and I think the artificial flowers at least until September are not faded they stay pretty well until September and you can always just post it that anyone that puts them on there has to have them off by September and I'm sure that if you post it year round people would see it I think hit it on the head there you know from was it 1974 your card five so and not with this board had formally made any changes to the policy but they're the last one was when was that one that you showed us it was 2000 there was a there was a we'll call it a most recent policy adjustment but it wasn't like recent within the year it was like 2004 or something in May or March 8 2010 2010 so 2010 and so the most recent one reads is there a time frame on the no so so the most recent one bucky did and and Barbara just says the most recent one just says that that everything will be removed from cemetery property whenever it becomes unsightly so we've gone from 1975 of saying that you had a period of time right I think you said July 10th or something like that to you know I'm sure there was ten other revisions over the years that either stuck or didn't stick but to now and I think where we're at is so Cecil is our I mean even though we're kind of the board of everything right Cecil is the one that has been appointed to do the oversight of the cemeteries that that we have in Bethel excuse me carry out your I mean he's just a sextant yeah he goes by whatever the policy is and and I will say that he he goes above and beyond what his duties are you know it's it's very it's it's almost a volunteer position right he gets a small stipend a year but you know he does everything from digging plots to do in a lot of upkeep that really has nothing to do with what his job title is so I think what we're trying to do is get a healthy balance between the way the policy reads right now is from whenever you want to put them out until whenever anybody wants to collect them so and I think what happens to to Cecil and feel free to say anything Cecil is it it becomes overwhelming when things are not maybe maintained in the proper time frame so it you know it I'm sure you're very responsible if you go up and I don't know make it up maybe at the end of September you come and and look at the grave site and make sure that you know the upkeep and stuff has been done but there are plenty of people that don't do anything and then it just becomes and it seems like that's all I can do or don't put flowers on and I'll see on the towns and the things is we didn't feel like we were we're overstepping in a manner of that we've done some homework and that there are a lot of places that don't accept either other official flowers or have a very strict time and when you can have them or not have them so I guess when we decided to put the signs that we didn't we weren't prepared you know enough done done enough homework to see what how that was going to affect everybody but it sounds like you know right now that the overwhelming unless there's anybody in support of not going with the artificial flowers it seems like like there is an overwhelming support for some artificial flowers for a period of time like Bucky was saying you know or like Barbara was saying at the end Joanne would raised her hand in the back yeah Joanne I wasn't at the meeting two weeks ago but I did read the letter to the editor I watched the recording of the meeting last night so familiarize myself with this problem that we're facing my husband is buried up at the Fairview Cemetery so you know one of the things I think and I appreciate how Chris stated it just that we are all dealing working from a place of respect for one another's opinion about the cemeteries I my thoughts go from you know I when I visit my in-laws of the veteran cemetery where according to what I researched artificial flowers are not allowed some people might see that is very stark and bleak others find it very peaceful and calm likewise in the cemetery that's full of flowers artificial flowers real flowers some people see that as a loving joyous tribute to their loved ones and others see it as too busy and complicated so we all are respectful of how we how we want to honor our loved ones who are buried in these cemeteries so when I was thinking about this I kind of put that aside because I think the issue that really is facing the town and facing our cemetery commissioner is an overwhelming amount of work that has to be done to maintain these five cemeteries and having to you know take care of either removing flowers or mowing around them or it just does not to me seem to be sustainable for given you know a five or six hundred dollars stipend for the year and all the other duties that are required in the cemetery commissioner and it just seems to me we how are we gonna how are we gonna keep that sustainable in the future you know people people move on people change we get new select men and women get new cemetery commissioners and you know why we're fortunate right now I think to have someone who is taking very good care of our cemeteries but I think we're asking too much if it also includes kind of vanishing artificial flowers the other thing that I just want to mention because I didn't hear any of it last meeting and I think it is something that we all have to think about is artificial flower artificial plastic flowers are not good for our environment those flowers whether they're at the cemetery or in a landfill are going to be hanging around for decades to come long after all of us are gone there's still going to be a round in some form and I think that we can adopt a policy that is respectful also of the environment and the kind of world we're going to leave for our children and grandchildren and for that reason I I kind of support the change that has been proposed I was gratified to hear trees apology for how it was implemented and certainly there could have been better communication better notice better involvement and I think her her words to the meaning two weeks ago were heartfelt and sincere and I that's all I have to say thank you and I'll and Barbara I'm just going to make sure that everybody gets gets one turn before we hit to the second one so Cecil is my partner just so you everybody knows that he is called three or four times every week sometimes three or four times in a day he goes out of his way to talk to people try to help them we have people calling from out of state looking for gravestones for him to stop whatever he's doing and run to Cherry Hill and find someone's gravestone that he may be past maybe didn't it's a lot of time plus all the other things he's doing and people to expect him to go and pick up artificial flowers when they're mown all over the place and I know everybody has good intentions of going and picking them up but it doesn't happen they're left in the cemetery some people pick them up some people don't the science you know they're saying you're saying to post a sign saying by a certain date the flowers should be picked up you posted signs saying no artificial flowers how many people read those signs they don't read the signs they just do what they've always done and it's also why you know why put more artificial flowers in the landfill I remember a quarter few years ago I went and helped him pick up the cemetery in the fall and I was actually appalled people had thrown their artificial flowers by a tree in the bushes over the bank all over the place the bells were overflowing I mean why should for me why should the town be responsible for taking care of artificial flowers that's what you want to put on someone's grave and I understand wanting to put flowers on someone's grave I'm fortunate my brother in Massachusetts takes care of our family great and he puts real flowers his son helps him and we all contribute to the cost you know but we are limited so you know we have to put a cost on how much we can spend but to me Memorial Day weekend the cemetery looked very nice because there wasn't old artificial flowers all over the place new flags were put up the old ragged ones were taken down which hadn't been done in quite a few years I just thought it was nice to speak one time I have that really what she's saying I visit the cemetery often really every week I'm in September he brought on Christian Hill or one where my parents aren't given I have seen flowers up there that I swear are three years old I've seen the flowers thrown over the bank not just one bank but all along the bank I'm more concerned I mean I'm okay with something putting them plastic flowers up there that's what you want on a year loved one with I am okay with that I think they have to be really close to the stone I don't believe that our cemetery commission should have to pick them up I don't believe that our mower should have to go around and move them sometimes they're on the grid sometimes they're four feet from the stone that become the problem for the four-hour mower I thought our cemetery look good Memorial Day I will don't say that I think yearly our American flags are changed out they've always been changed out so they always look good I'm more concerned with the stones are being knocked over in our cemetery dirty stones I mean just filthy putting the flowers up there and your stones dusty dirty mold and milk do on I think that that's how I I don't put flowers on my parents I don't put them on my grandparents or my aunts and uncles but I try to make sure the stone is upright and clean I'm against the flowers I guess okay yes Jim I had called to Reese the day after the last meeting after I had spoken to Barbara and Barbara said that what we had spoken about was an agreement but the ladies would like would be able to put artificial flowers from Memorial Day or flags however they want to honor their dearly departed and then have them there until Labor Day they would like a week after Labor Day to come and pick them up I think that is more than fair and I also agree with this gentleman over here that at the end of the season if there are people that come to visit their grandparents and they leave artificial flowers somebody should be hired to help Cecil to pick up the artificial flowers but I don't think that the senior ladies of Bethel should be denied the right to leave artificial flowers as a memento to the memory of their relatives and that's what I said to Teresa and Barbara agree in the packet so they did know okay what you said Robert Geichel I have a my mom and dad a brother and a son up there and since we've been back here in Bethel in 2003 every year my wife and I more more so her go up and put real flowers we weed we put mulch we put them even not just on the headstones all the market and our relatives that are not around here they live in other states but each and every year we're getting older we're 81 years old now we just do the main headstone just ours and my wife has a serious bad back you have to go up a water room and stuff and we're pretty soon in the Bucky stage where we'll consider artificial flowers a few years ago I thought it was not 2010 even less than that we had the same discussion and they were not going to allow them and I remember Bert Dean and some others came down and I supported her and we came with a compromise instead all year long that was a certain date that you could start a certain date that you had and I kind of favor that and I went to help I think we get volunteers we get community service from people and just instead of having a commissioner do it just have a work day at the end of the year to go pick them up I went up to cemetery today it's absolutely beautiful well cared for looks nice I did notice on the way out Cecil that it's closing in on the road it's hard to get down there without the trees and brush hit but he takes care of that periodically but I really I agree with environmental things but we can't serve solve all the world's problems here you see the two plastic jugs up there I mean we all do that not intentionally but let's work together and try to compromise and keep the cemetery clean and that is another thing the lady that mentioned the stones stones look horrible and I noticed some of our family stones that we're going to have to pay to have it done my son and I when they come to visit my sons we go out and we found the solution that we could do it ourselves and brush but some of the family they're really bad but I strongly support being able to show love to our department and try to work it out and man make it work thank you so now that we've had everybody had one chance is anybody on the board have any comments at this time or Linley's remotely so if Linley has comments or anybody else I think it was it was enlightening to me to see I don't know if you folks have looked in the select board packets but we got a two page listing of all the responsibilities that Cecil takes part in up there at the same at five cemeteries and it's it's pretty impressive I was did not realize that there were so many things that he was involved in and we've been working hard to try to change the stipend policies and some of those things here in town because they'd not just not adequate to cover the amount of time that folks are putting in on some of these the responsibilities I don't think there's any denying that the Cecil's got his hands full I'm very happy to hear calm discussion and valid points and good not arguments but good you know discussion because I think you know we're seeing that there's a trend towards trying to work out some kind of compromise and that's what we're here for we're not here to yell or scream we're here to try to come up with a policy that everybody can live with so I appreciate everybody's comments very important this is the biggest crowd I think I've ever seen at a slight forward meeting this is incredible and I've only about five years six years whatever but it's the biggest crowd I've ever seen it's impressive that people really care enough whatever but it's impressive to see that people care enough to come out and comment thank you minority they take care of their lots very well but 99% of them don't and you can say you know you can have committees to go check but you almost have to do it on a place that we base this you know because the wind blows and there's people you're lucky you get somebody that can mold billy blow in the morning and they're not gonna you know they can't spend the time and Robert's comment you can't solve all the problems but we got to start somewhere that you learn with the plastic you don't need a plastic bag and a shovel anymore and you don't need a plastic straw and you got to start somewhere where they're part of it I mean I just want to make sure that I'm hearing the argument through I mean I think I think most of Cecil's argument is just like what Paul said is the amount of responsibility that he has or that he does that he should have to do is overwhelming so how do we how do we lessen the burden still get the value out of Cecil but lessen the burden on you know on a lot of the maintenance at the cemetery so and you know maybe whenever the last bylaws were changed for the cemeteries it sound like kind of just went to over the years from what Bucky was saying as there was a time and now all of a sudden there is no time and now it sounds like you know like Joanne and others have talked about is that there's been long periods of people not wanting to do maintenance in the cemetery so that then it becomes you know cumbersome to one individual to do it so I mean I guess what I would offer up if it sounds you know is and I don't know of being that we're kind of we're at July already so would this year counter should we do it through next year but you know what about picking a date that we can live with and given it a trial run of I'll make it up I'm just throwing something out there so what if we said you know between between Memorial Day and Labor Day weekend that we would allow artificial flowers and cemeteries and pick a weekend after Labor Day that maybe kind of like we do green up day like okay we're going to have cemetery green up day and it's going to be the weekend after Labor Day where hopefully we can have enough gathered at different cemeteries to to to over do the burden and go out together and pick them up and give it a trial run now let's let's I'm just going to get let's say we do it let's say we do it and nobody shows up but you know then maybe we have to go back to the board and look at things but yes these years ago it didn't work in and it won't work now what did you do eight years ago I did eight years ago it didn't work then it won't work now they were supposed to that's why we're here now what was it was about the same time frame tried eight years ago I don't remember what it was it was Memorial Day and it wouldn't be taken off September and the flowers were right there the next spring excuse me so was there a volunteer group supposed to be I don't remember any volunteers that were going to clean them all up I didn't say you didn't take care of your grave you do and Barbara Papa does I don't keep track of where the graves are but they were supposed to pick up all the flowers not just one or two graves it never worked the individuals are in the room of are the minority that do care for you know the we'll call daily maintenance of of their loved ones and you know it's others that unfortunately are the the ones that we're talking about here right and I'm sure just like Cecil said I'm sure sitting here that eight years ago we probably did come up with the same thing right and did it work for a year and then it didn't happen I don't know but I'm just trying to think what what can we do to one take the burden off Cecil to allow loved ones to especially in you know I hear the case of getting to the point of can't plant real flowers artificial flowers are our way to still remember that you know trying to meet in the middle of that so well so Elizabeth well I'll go back to you yes I had volunteered last week and I have a very large family that would be more than willing to help with the cemetery we do our own we have walked around and picked up some and placed them back on the stones I am a person as you can ask anybody that knows me if there's a flag that's been over I will purposely walk over and straighten it out I have no problem and I'm sure my family won't if I ask them to go up and help maintain this this whole situation with the artificial flowers yes Judith Perlin I have a suggestion maybe for the people that can't do get down and plant flowers maybe you could see if this is the some school program that might be willing to help plant flowers because usually you're planting them before Memorial Day or in the spring I think that might be an option and then you wouldn't have to worry about the artificial flowers blowing all over the place if we're gonna look for volunteers to do something let's look for volunteers to do something that you know it's it's gonna be real flowers that are gonna eventually die and go into the ground not artificial flowers that are gonna be there or gonna be in the landfill who's gonna water them maybe we can you can find somebody to do that Joey and Marshall I think you've got the right idea Chris I think maybe we do a trial I was gonna say that do from Memorial Day to Labor Day and then put something in the paper on your Facebook page pay this Saturday we're gonna do a cleanup yes I think we thought at least try that I'm not a fan of the plastic flowers but I think that we do have people here that say they'll be out there picking them up I know that there was a date my husband and I would be out there I think if we got Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts involved we probably could get the cemetery picked up very quickly but I think we have to follow through and make sure those things happen The next thing that we do is all these meetings with the view tape so now we know when people say that they're gonna do something and show up because we're gonna be like oh we're just gonna play this video that's you right there no so how about the day-to-day maintenance though I mean the week-to-week you know we have a storm came through on Saturday and after flowers are blown off or where they should be and stuff who's gonna go up after that storm how are we gonna deal with that type of situation the person that Moses gonna take care of those and so then our cost for that is gonna go up I don't personally see them blowing around as much somebody sticks them in the ground and I think that sounds like there's a bunch of us up there maybe we pick them up if they're blowing around but I guess we probably should do a trial period for these people that want to do it and once they put them close to their stomachs not five feet away too Camp, yeah Elizabeth and then well two three Brian and then Joanne how's that Cecil senior is not gonna work if you can try it for Memorial Day to Labor Day he's just not gonna work Cecil senior he's the guy that runs it for us how about incorporating something with arena day bow planting day because you incorporate that and you go in the cemeteries that aren't able to put plastic flowers you could you know have all the gears and plant bulbs that come up every year so my my suggestion would be that my family especially go up quite often at least every other week or once a month we go up my dad's up there my sister-in-law's up there my aunts and uncles are up there and we had thought about putting a shepherd hookup where we can actually put artificial plants over the stones they're not in the ground it would be behind the stone where no one is going to have to worry about weed whacking or anything because you should be able to weed back around if we do all the time I'm not saying I don't want to be able to put artificial flowers up there because all honestly I do it's in remembrance of my family it hurt me very badly to know that we were not allowed to do that this year I would be and as I said my family would be more than willing to do a green-up day we are up there like I said at least every other week once a month we have no problem with walking the cemeteries we have no problem with picking up flowers and stuff that are scattered and if a storm comes along as the lady in the front row said if you have put your artificial flowers in the ground correctly they are not going to blow all over the place thank you I just wanted to know are you suggesting just trying to get it for the correct for the minutes Elizabeth are you suggesting that that's what the select board tells people is that everyone has to install a shepherd's hook to put their artificial plants on I'm saying is we would be willing to yes because we do have them my son is buried in Royalton we do have a shepherd's hook there but as you know according to the pictures we are allowed to put artificial flowers up there has never been an issue about it no we have family here they're everywhere and most every place that we have them are allowed to put artificial flowers in alright I just wanted to clarify for that to make sure thank you and yes Joanne if the board adopts that I would suggest that the wording of allowing flowers from Memorial Day to Labor Day having that happen is contingent upon a successful clean up the week after Memorial Day if I'm hearing this correctly and there's a lot of people that are saying they'll volunteer they'll have family that will come and that's wonderful but I think somehow that has to be incorporated into this new policy that the reason we're allowing artificial flowers is because we've been we are hearing guarantees that they will be taking care of it will not fall onto the cemetery commissioners lab and for that reason I think you have to define what is the successful clean up of all cemeteries the five cemeteries have to be cleaned up and how is that going to be defined who is going to evaluate if it's successful so that you determine for the following year okay we could do this again it worked it's great or this didn't work we have to go back to a drawing board because it didn't even with the best of intentions so I'm just offering that as things to consider if you have that policy for Memorial Day through Labor Day so I think what I'll do now is just close comments to the public and that way the board can deliberate on what we feel at this point would be the best way to go forward with this I mean it sounds like for the most part that there's two options on the table one is no artificial flowers at any time and the second one is right now is to have artificial flowers for a period of time with a green up day at the end of that and contingent upon how well that green up day goes that being allowed for the next year or the year after that I just want to let you know we received this Kelly forwarded to me this morning a message an email from a John Ennis and he said this problem can easily be solved at my parents cemetery in Missouri all flowers plastic or real cannot be on the ground I use a Jacobs hook and a hanging basket right next to the stone it works well I just want to make sure we yeah I just want to make sure that John's message got so I guess at this point what what's the board feel when Lee's on it there you are couldn't find you when Lee's there so what what's the board's opinion at this point first of all I want to thank people for bringing up the cemetery policy because I think that it needs there are some things in it that need some attention and we can get into that I can share some other issues but and I also would ask is there a possibility of forming a quote like the historical committee but it's a cemetery beautification committee or something that would meet periodically through the summer that wouldn't depend on one individual or family but could become an organization that visited after storms etc etc that's that may be something that we want to consider after a period of trial I think the only thing I have concerns with you know when I ever hear the word committee or or focus group or whatever is who who's on that right I mean they have a lot of committees that I mean I think in a perfect world that would be great I mean I just wonder like who would be on that committee and how long would people be on that committee for like it may be traction for a year or two and then then like Cecil then says back to normal you know then then what happens at that point part of my concern with one or two families saying we'll volunteer etc that's wonderful but at some point that family is not going to be able to continue doing that and it doesn't answer the question of what happens on a week by week or every other week kind of basis when we have storms come in and and all kinds of stuff can happen as to the concern I have I'm just trying to organize the volunteer piece of it if you don't have to if you don't want to but to see there that's okay I really appreciate everybody's attendance I wish I could be there to see it in person but I could at least hear you all which was great no it's been I have not actually found myself to come to a really strong conclusion even over the last two weeks and listening to different arguments and you know reading people's sentiments and all of that it's been a really I don't think it's in a straightforward yes or no this or that type of thing and I think that I have a very similar concern that I've heard other folks vocalize and some of that is echoing Cecil saying we've tried this before and it didn't work but also the volunteer piece I all of that said I'm fully on board to try and I like Chris's compromise that he proposed I think that that's a good way to do it I think even given that it would be a trial thing and we're sort of starting mid season I would really suggest we say our trial period is at least this year and next year if not you know give it a year or two but I do think that the volunteer piece is something that we have to kind of keep tabs on and that what I don't want to see is that the responsibility after two years just keeps falling back to the commissioner you know five years from now we're back here having a very similar discussion and I think that somewhat would then land to the select board to keep tabs on this check in with the commissioner check in you know with other members of the town who we know many of you are here tonight but just to really check in and say is this working what isn't working about it and reassess at that point so I would I guess the motion that I would make and if somebody wants to second it we can if not we can go back to the table the motion I'm willing to make is to allow artificial flowers from the dates of Memorial Day to Labor Day and this would be only contingent upon that we have a mandatory cemetery cleanup or green up day that would take place the first Saturday after Labor Day and and that the success would be evaluated by the cemetery commissioner for the success would be evaluated by the cemetery commissioner first weekend after Labor Day mandatory cleanup yeah so I guess that would be my motion all right allow artificial flowers Memorial Day to Labor Day mandatory cleanup first weekend after Labor Day yeah or I just put the first Saturday but I mean if you put weekend then does you know Saturday Saturday is fine yeah Saturday's work better or Sunday's work better for people doesn't make any difference to me either or you're just gonna make Aaron go do it I'll do it I'll rally the truth so I mean the first Saturday I don't usually Saturday people are more out doing some working pieces than Sundays but I mean I but I would say that you know if it doesn't work then we're you know probably getting towards you know if we go up there and nobody shows up and you know we're burdening you know by having a lot of cleanup out there for one person then I you know I think the next solution is to go you know with no so I I guess that's the motion that I'm willing to make and then discuss that's the thing so I would second the motion but I would also say that there are several things that we have to also put in there stipulating how the flowers need to be placed where they need to be placed how they need to be attached and also we still have to deal with the you know somebody every week or every other week checking to see if they're blown over or whatever because that that still needs to happen and I don't think it's right for you know Cecil's got enough on his hands to go around the five different cemeteries check it on that my name is Vivian Caswell my husband has been in that cemetery for 32 years I have put silk flowers on his grave every year and I have gone on there several times I have not found one of the flowers blown over anywhere on that grave you keep telling us they're blown over it's on so the board is delivering right now so close it off to public comment and remember like we talked about you know that people in this room are not the issue that's putting all the burden on Cecil right I mean you guys are very responsible with your loved ones in their in their sites it's it's it's how how do we you know individuals that travel up extended family or friends that travel up from wherever to place something in Memorial Day that never come back again right so what do how do we take care of that because it's not fair to Cecil to have to do that so I think that's kind of where and then Paul was kind of looking at kind of similar to what Elizabeth had said about where they can be about an attachment that potentially that could be put on the headstone that allows for it to be more secured but also easier for maintenance so Paul just want to clarify so you said you feel like you should be more specific about where they can be placed how they're attached you know more secure what was the name of it a shepherd's hook shepherd's hook yeah and the gentleman from Missouri called it a something I think pretty readily available and easy to get and affordable and yeah you can get them at the hardware stores anywhere I think I've got two of them just a raw iron hook I had two of them and my wife used to put flowers in that we took up and they go over the stone yeah okay yeah so some of them yeah sounds like they fit on the stone and some are just a piece of raw iron with a little hook so you can hang like a hanging plant or something on it I'm sorry if they take a like a steak you can get the hooks to put on them they look just as nice they can be also be put up close to the stone so they come up behind it and then you can still attach the flowers to them they're different sizes so we're talking about getting very specific about exactly what you can do with flowers at headstones what we're going to be putting in as part of the policy that's what you're saying well I don't know I mean my proposal was to go you know secure the artificial flowers the way I guess they're done now with knowing that there was going to be responsibility up there that if Cecil comes down to us or if Cecil comes to Theresa in July and says hey I got a bunch of artificial flowers you know displaced then maybe we throw something on Facebook that we're going to go out next weekend and go clean up the cemetery you know I mean we just so what happens with that well I think what happens is the ones that were picked up and some of the ones that were returned to you know they're at the town office some of them were we're just loose we're just actually have a couple of that were bouquets that had like masking tape holding other things to them and they were left there they weren't secured properly in the ground like you know Elizabeth is saying so I actually agree with Paul that you should be more specific because some of the things that were that were there the reason they're blowing around is they're not attached so people are just laying them there so I do think that if you're going to allow this trial for just this I think you should just try it for this year I don't but um that's just my personal opinion but you should um be very specific about you know making sure that they're properly attached that they're near the stone so that people that they can be mowed around and trimmed around and and taken care of so I think that would so I think Paul's right it would help just because I've looked at all the stuff that we've had that's been left um I some of them there was only one that actually fit over the headstone that was metal the rest of them I don't know how they were hooked down okay um excuse me I think um communication is very important in this situation and then after Labor Day I think that we should communicate to the community that there will be a cleanup day make sure that everybody knows it so people who would like to participate instead of just one family doing it or just a few families give people the opportunity to do it but it has to be communicated I think you're right about that and I'm sure we can advertise it similar to like what we do for Gramp Day and having the paper, Facebook I'm sure we can work with Cecil to find a time that you know between I don't know you know between the hours of I don't know 10 and noon or something on this day where everybody's going to get together and do it alright so let's see but when we get down to securing it I mean do we get as nitty gritty as saying this or that or just something that needs to be secured within I think it has to be maybe a foot of the stone or something I mean flowers have to be contained in a container that has material in it that will support the flowers maybe a few more hours hashing over what we're going to how we're going to support them where we're going to support them I think we should whoever wants to make these decisions talk about it for a couple hours put it together and I look at it then now I don't think I can make a decision with all the different options that we're talking about I don't think we're going to do anything solid tonight I think we need to put together a couple of drafts at least one to say okay this is what we're going to allow this is what we're going to allow this is how we're going to allow I could take obviously we have all the notes we know what everybody wants we could take that I could talk to Cecil about his expertise with dealing with the stones as to where they should be placed how they should be he could give some good advice on if artificial flowers are going to be allowed how do they not affect the mowers and operators and himself right okay why couldn't we just put in a motion you know talking about the placement and attachment of the artificial flowers to be determined by the cemetery commissioners and then we could you know after the fact trees can talk to Cecil about here are the options that that are because I would rather act on it rather than wait another two weeks to do it so basically so you're still discussing your motion so you're saying Chris moved Paul second allow artificial flowers Memorial Day to Labor Day mandatory cleanup this is your trial run but you're going to say artificial flowers are allowed per the cemetery commissioners guidelines that's what you want to amend the motion to well it gives him the opportunity to say you know this is how it needs to be secured you know and then we can get check with other communities that already have these policies that already have been through this just to look at to give you guys a better idea so I'm just trying to be able to give us some wiggle room to allow the motion to move tonight with the only piece of it that we still have to research is just exactly how exactly how would it have to be attached or placed near the gravestone that sound I just think we need to say that that all of the decorations need to be securely they need to be securely attached to the site whether it's planted in the ground or weighted down or on a but it needs to be securely attached installed I mean we already in the policy we already give the cemetery commissioners the power to make the determination on if bucky wants to plant a rose bush on his site he can go to Cecil and say hey we want to plant some wild roses and you know we already have that opportunity you know that power there and I think we somehow could just defer that the attachment placement piece of it to the commissioner no I mean on my family we have a flowering perennial bush that we planted four years ago and there's flowers there every year and absolutely nobody complains about it being in the way I know the discussion is over but I think you guys have not listened to Cecil enough I mean how many years have you been on the committee and it hasn't worked he's spent the cemetery commissioner a long time if he's going to continue after tonight right that's what I'm saying you guys have to listen to him I know I understand but also you're not thinking about the environmental part of it plastic is the thing of the past for our environment you can wrap it up for everybody you know for me I'm Nicole Ciaran the chair of the energy committee and the biggest thing for me is just efficiency of the mower so if we can figure out a way to get that mower running back and forth as quickly as possible get the person who's running the mower in and out as quickly as possible that will be helping the environment and helping the town yeah and I completely we hear you know where Cecil's at with it you know and I'm sure we've been down this road a half a dozen times and made the same commitments but I guess one nice thing that we do have nowadays with modern technology is you know notes in the past maybe you can't find the notes or they're not very detailed but you can look up on orca and you can get exactly what was said at the meeting and who was there and you know who raised their hand who didn't raise their hand so you know I think that part of it's a little more exciting now because then you know the responsibility falls on others to help and it's well documented that way so just to recap the current motion still is that to allow artificial flowers in a trial trial run well I don't know you need to say trial run because technically right now the policy says they'll be removed if they're on site so I guess you'll leave that portion in there and just move to allow artificial flowers Moriel Day to Labor Day mandatory cleanup the first Saturday after Labor Day but I guess you would say allow artificial flowers per cemetery commissioner got cemetery commissioners guidelines is what you're suggesting allow artificial flowers per cemetery commissioner guidelines from a Moriel Day to Labor Day mandatory cleanup first Saturday after Labor Day and then with those guidelines we could spell out exactly what Jean and Paul are saying which is all decorations need to be securely attached to the stone or the plot and Cecil could specify how many if Cecil is still the cemetery commissioner tomorrow so at least it would give him some input since he's the one who does know the work but he did we had a motion and a second I appreciate being in consultation with Cecil but I think that according to select board guidelines it's Cecil's job to implement the policy or that's that's my opinion or both in collaboration with you because the only reason why I said with the cemetery commissioner because we do empower the cemetery commissioner currently to make some decisions that aren't necessarily our decisions within the policy well he you have the if you want to plant a bush you could say I want to plant a bush in this location and he comes out and says this bush is good and you could plant that and I think that's the same thing we're talking about with fastening the flowers is he would say here are the setups that are acceptable to be put in place to attach the artificial flowers and or other pieces right? the select board is the commissioners and then it does talk about that there's an appointed representative I just think over the years we've referred to him as the cemetery commissioner and there is a couple places in here in which unless said work is approved by the cemetery foreman so there is a couple places trees and shrubs shall not be planted in the town cemeteries without the consent and or direction of the cemetery foreman so you're right if you put up to cemetery foreman guidelines you would be consistent with the existing policy language just went and would it be one second Janice the town trees and shrubs shall not be planted in the town cemetery without the consent and direction of the cemetery foreman exactly I'm just wondering to avoid any misunderstandings if maybe there shouldn't be one of the ladies to consult with the select board and the cemetery commissioner instead of just the select board because their their wishes and they know more about it certainly than me as far as with that planter and the hook and everything maybe there should be one of them that could review the guidelines review them before you know something is done which is quite a problem I gotta think that Cece will probably be more and willing to hear hopefully options that have worked let's say or what the options are out there for attaching things and or or Therese Therese is like yes to do that and it might be a little bit of a hopefully this is a positive direction and hopefully we're not sitting here next year and Cece will say and I told you so nothing happened and I'm hoping that maybe just having a conversation that hey we need to try this different attachment or something that works better for the gravestones I think it's positive so attached is and secured kind of covers that but anyways it's still have a full agenda I would add the words secured to the grave site that doesn't say you have to have this kind of secured book you want to add secured to grave site in the cemetery in this experimental period of time into the guidelines I want to say in this yes in this experiment to go from now until Labor Day with a volunteer cleanup day that we permit artificial flowers provided they're secured to the grave site so that the wind won't blow them all over and etc and how that happens or you could say I don't have to vote no that you put that in here or you could say that they have to be secured per the cemetery foreman's guidelines or something like that I just want to I want it understood it's no longer unsightly that's the guide secured per select board for the foreman guidelines because Dave is right you can't just say anywhere on the plot that's too vague it's going to have to be very specific I'm so sorry we tried moving the tables around now you're blinded it's going to have to specifically state specifically so many inches from the stone or whatever to make it easier but I will add that to the secured per select board and cemetery foreman guidelines alright so the question has been moved seconded and discussed thoroughly so just call for all in favor aye aye so we got 3, 4, 5 so this is for the rest of this year yes this year and we'll just evaluate at the end of the year and see how things went things went well we can continue moving forward things didn't go well then we needed to relook at this that gives the opportunity for everybody here I think we appreciate everybody coming out very well be careful on the cords on your way out because they are trip hazards so do you want these bags sure okay alright yeah sure absolutely and we'll post on from porch form and facebook yeah but absolutely send no it's the town of Bethel we'll just call the office tomorrow and talk to Kelly or whoever answers the phone alright thank you is Mr. Aysham okay yeah Erin will just go and mount alright hopefully we can snap snap to the rest, Lindley said she had to step away I'm pretty sure you got to go that way yeah yep you can go oh that way but you don't want to go that way oh yeah yes I'm pretty sure I'll make sure yeah yeah what's that no no I don't Grant needs a summer job I'll see you in a second I agree with that there you go I'm so shy I think I'll never recycle no Addie loves flowers yeah alright alright Chris in this whole conversation about the cemetery guidelines some of the guidelines they're increasing numbers of people now who are seeking a green or a natural burial which is without casket anything that is not biodegradable it is about two feet deep and we don't have in our current policy any provision for that to happen in any of our cemeteries and so I'm wondering if we might not want to look into yeah I can I'll have to whether that's a possibility sure either within current cemeteries or within other public parks that we might have that people might want to if they were to choose that option that that might be a possibility yeah I'm not sure what the current state regulations are there was a book put out by the secretary of justice office a while ago and I think that they're the ones who have the rules to that I know that we recently had a select board member pass and they did a green burial yeah we just had a friend who had a green burial too so yeah I'll look into it yeah I just think it would be something that if we could provide for that there are five places in Vermont right now that do find out what our legal options are there all right so we will move to the energy committee because they have been so patiently waiting around I'm gonna move to the other um some people are actually composting themselves at this point they have facilities to compost deceased people so yes we're here to talk more policy purchasing policy um and it was really good to hear a lot of the crowd talking about the environment tonight and you know we heard one person say you can't solve the problems of the world and another person say you have to start somewhere and with the climate change mitigation and adaptation activities that's really what we're following between you know we have it's such a big problem we can't handle it and then we have this is a small town we really can start here and so we're here to kind of start with a small step this should be familiar to you because we were here last year and we went away with the promise of looking into the RFP requirements and vehicle purchasing policy examples more and over the past year we've actually hit a lot of roadblocks so we're kind of coming back to you with the same thing just with a little more information all right so I just want to let this so the select board was given our updated policy and I just highlighted the yellow changes that you and I had gone back and forth with about you know edit so my version included the edited energy committee suggestions so which I had emailed with you or maybe we did a google doc and so those are in here into the purchasing policy so they can be seen it did nice like we haven't got to see them and so I did do that and you know with the edits that I had made but I already sent you those and then I have your town of Thetford green fleet policy and the other you know certificate of compliance and all that stuff to go with it and my recommendation to the select board was that obviously had some small edits with purchasing policy but your newer updates of the town of Thetford you know your example of the green fleet policy and that information I actually think should go to the equipment committee for their review before the select board really you know for their input and take on it before the select board really discusses it because they're the committee that helps pick you know what equipment we buy and we were actually talking about how much we wanted to have them be part of the discussion so you think we would present it to them and hear their feedback in real time so I would give it to them at our next before our next meeting because we're actually supposed to meet I think a couple of weeks because we met before a couple of maybe it was a week ago I lost track but within the last two weeks I've met with the energy committee I mean the equipment committee and they're talking about a couple purchases and so they kind of had gone back and forth we needed to gather more information so what I was thinking was when we said I said their agenda I could just give them the policy and then they could discuss you know any changes or their thoughts on it and then I could just give you that from the energy from the equipment committee so to be clear we're talking about the general policy edits or the vehicle purchase the vehicle purchase policy I just figured the ones who you know in the trenches it'd be good to get their opinion and about what they think about it what's possible I like to join the discussion and you know just hear some feedback I know a lot of times when like climate change warriors join a discussion people are hesitant they're like you're just going to shake your finger at us for using gasoline and that's not the energy that I don't bring at all that's not you I don't worry about that no I just want them to see it and you know get their feedback but I can let you know why I don't have a set meeting day but when I do I can let you know and it's not via zoom we're old school they meet in the garage looking at equipment at the town highway so this is there is no zoom option here and and I think some of the challenges that we have and I've been lucky enough to be on the board for a little bit and have been through some purchases of equipment and I think I think the thing that's challenging for our town not just our town but a lot of towns in our area is like I think we always want to you know have the opportunity to better ourselves in many different ways in this case we're talking about the environment but when we have the options and Doug's been through this we pretty much like okay we need to get a new town truck to plow snow with right and then all of a sudden it's like here's the only one available you know I mean it's like and it's like often we can't even often you know if we just take the environmental piece out of it we can have the opportunity to say okay well what would Ford say versus GMC versus freight liner you know usually it's like okay so and so has got one freight like if you want it within six months it's here like and here are the specs on it and that's actually the situation right now we're looking at a truck that was even worse right now because of just the what's going on yeah there's one Western Star that we're getting a press on from ATG and there's one these guys happen to pre-order a truck it happens to be similar to the Western Star we have but that's it and the other pieces used so it's almost yeah when it comes to purchasing and what's available in the industry balancing everything that you need to balance so some of what is in here I don't know if you saw the vehicle request form yeah that was just something like that's an original creation for me and the process I kind of have in my head is that we have some sort of way to be transparent to the town like taxpayers residents about what we bought why we bought it and how it does benefit the town so what you're talking about is why why don't we upgrade why aren't we going to fossil fuel free because we have a lack of options for now the industry is changing so quickly that a decade from now if we don't have a process in place we're going to be missing opportunities because we're so used to having them right now we are transparent about our process I mean the Equipment Committee meets they bring it to the select board the select board sees the specs unfortunately been the last couple of years that we just don't have options it's this or nothing or way and so it's it's been a difficult time but certainly you're right those things in the future will change and right now and it won't be forever could just be you know hopefully just another knock on wood a year you know or so as more equipment is is built and we have once again have options which would be a beautiful thing but things that we typically do have a little more control on is from what I've seen is anyway we're hoping to do some of this we haven't but you know when we have the opportunity to upgrade like the garage I think we have more control over saying yes hey have we thought about whatever solar or you know something like that to power the garage we have a lot more control on that because it's something we're building I have one thing on the bid criteria for bid selection I would like to add a line that said not just price we're going to consider price but I would like to add operational cost anticipated operational cost and maintenance this would be on page 2 of the actual purchasing policy or I'm sorry I just need to know where to make this bid specifications it's almost at the end just before exceptions okay let me just get there okay criteria for bid selection I would like to add operation and maintenance anticipated operation and maintenance costs over the life of the vehicle well that's going to be tough we bought trucks that are great and some that are lemons I know but here we're comparing in the automobile market we're not talking trucks but in the automobile market the maintenance is different for an electric motor than it is for a gas engine the cost of fuel is different if you are running a different kind of fuel so I think that over the lifetime of the vehicle the purchase are anticipated use whatever that we ought to consider not just the initial cost but whether any of that will be recouped anticipated operational and maintenance costs over the lifetime of the purchase right if it under any other factors that the select board determines our relevant and appropriate connection with a given project or service it would have been that's well it would fit I just I just don't want to say price and leave it at that I could put under any other factors that select board determines including anticipated operational maintenance costs or something like that included there if you'd like um does it leave a limit depending on the situation not just the cost so I mean it's hard to know this market it is what it is I mean obviously we're buying diesel trucks and that's what we're buying and like we said we have options right now what's on you know because you know luckily ATG bought a truck and because they were only allowed to purchase one and they didn't have a buyer just yet the only thing we can do is change the color and so from red to green if we go if the equipment committee makes that recommendation of the select board but I mean I think they do these guys are all equipment you know owners operators it's Ray Blakene Ryan Jeff Gilman Moe Brigham I'm missing somebody they take into consideration like trading values well yeah absolutely I mean when we build the capital plan we always take you know we always try to come up with a number for trade and then they do like a couple years ago they put they chose to put $10,000 into the greater because they said the stuff that was coming down the pike was not did not have a good reputation was breaking down a lot so they felt that the money was better spent keeping the greater that they had and and putting that money into it so yeah I mean I do think that they certainly take that into consideration and they all have experienced driving different or operating different brand name equipment and someone say oh don't get that that's junk or whatever and we've also gotten now we purchase the extended warranty because pretty soon nobody's going to be able to work on vehicles they're all going to be computerized so we do buy the extended you know so it kind of goes cradle to grave we're covered so if a computer dies you know we have some help there so and I'm not criticizing I'm simply saying that that's a criteria that I would like to see considered okay well I could put that in there and either a separate or does that fall into like I mean there's always in every selection criteria or sign there's always like that catch all phrase right and ours is number ten is you know any other factors that the select board determines are relevant and appropriate in connection with a given project or service so it's kind of like a large umbrella to say maybe we're going to go with this one because it's $5,000 more but it is you know so I think there's like a catch all in there now there is a catch all I'm just requesting that we say it that's all but I mean one would think that when we purchase anything I mean it could be a copier at the office that we would be looking to see would be looking to see those comparatives of how much we cause how much is it going to cost at that time what's the end yeah and benefit absolutely right I would just like to spell that language I think it is appropriate but it might be better in a purchasing policy that's specific for vehicles versus in the general RFP ok criteria if that's what the select board wants is are you comfortable with that Jean putting that statement more in a green fleet policy or do you want and I think the toughest thing when we're talking about like green fleet you know going that direction is I think well one the obvious piece right now is most often is those pieces aren't available to us within the amount of time that we need them but the second piece to it is the infrastructure piece of you know if it's biodiesel then how do we get biodiesel you know or if it's if it's electric how do we charge you know I mean there's we have a bunch of those pieces in it so want to make sure are considered as part of it's part of the price right do you mean pieces like pieces that you don't know until after what's can you give me an example of that like piece what was the question again it kind of said like there was parts of things that you don't know until after does that have to do with the bid selection or purchasing vehicles or I don't know what you're saying I was taking notes of it what I appreciated about the other town was the record keeping about the maintenance the miles driven the or the time put on the grade or whatever the warranty work done keeping those records so that you have some sense or the next time around when you need to have greater purchase of what's going on and Morgan does that because let's say we buy an electric snowplow and then we crunch the numbers and it turns out that it's getting sourced from you know a coal fired energy plant and we're running this electric snowplow and it's using more energy and it's dirtier energy and we're not record keeping so we don't know you know I think that having some sort of inventory of our missions and when I say increasing transparency that's what I really think about is you know my household pays taxes and the taxes pay for gas for maintenance vehicles how much gas are we all taxpayers buying how many fossil fuel emissions are we you know down the line responsible for because that's what we're here to do is to decrease the amount of gasoline that we're burning because gasoline is just fine if you don't burn it exactly yeah so we have a new road foreman and he is you know just and he did start a new record keeping system for maintenance on all the vehicles and everything so that that is happening on missions is something that I mean I don't know it's in the purchase of the vehicle it talks about it certainly it's within you know the 12 page specs of a of a new truck or whatever but it's not so do we log so they log you know maintenance and what's done and you know their time cards say what they have done for the day but are we we don't currently have a software system that logs exactly what was what I did talk to Ryan Slack about that the state he wants he inputs that data for the state and he feels that the state should share their software with us but they won't so it's baby steps but we certainly are keeping records for it not just the emissions but everything that's happening would be really beneficial yeah it would be and so that was something that actually he and I were talking about I don't know within the last month but in the meantime Morgan has you know set up a record keeping system so about the track of how many like gallons of gasoline or fuel that we used to fuel the vehicles so there's a budget that you vote on and so there's a there's a log yes there is there's a log yes there's a log yeah there's a paper log so every fire truck every police car every grade whenever it's put gas in it there's a date I think who did it and everything so yes there is a log it's paper you really use it twice a year to build other departments I build the police in the fire department for what they use out of the highways tank for gas or diesel so yeah so you know as we're kind of thinking about you know purchases I really always think about maintenance when I think about purchases because everyone likes to buy the new thing but maintaining the new thing is really where it's at and that sort of record keeping if you know what we're saying as the energy committee is that we need to bump it up so that we do know how much gasoline we're using and that we can access that as residents who know you know like we used one million gallons of gasoline last year and this is actually really relevant to this year because so we have some numbers in our appendix B of the town report and in an average year the Bethel residents I don't know if this includes municipal vehicles by about 600,000 gallons of gas so during a year where gas is $3 a gallon residents are spending $2.4 million on gasoline flowing out of the community this year if we're averaging $5 a gallon all year it's $4.1 million right out of town to the gas companies and as I've mentioned before this is for us poor people this is our time to recover from our heating bills and spiking the gas it's going to hurt people in the winter so you know energy is all what's that I'm trying not to I don't know whether to wait or do it now is the price going to go up or down yeah and that's that's real to you know like for me when I say growing up poor it's cute and funny but I wasn't like able to take as many showers as I needed to I would avoid showers because my hair was wet and my house was cold and you're talking about a 16 year old girl trying to have some self confidence you know like I'm still in Bethel it's not because my family was so great so I really do deeply care about energy use how it's used and the money not only the money on heating oil but the money taxpayers are paying Bethel the richest person in town town of Bethel we get all the money so we gotta make sure we're giving it back to the people who are working so hard to pay those taxes certainly the road crew will do you know if they're grading they'll leave the grader in one section and go back the next day to finish that section so I mean certainly it affects their budget and they're aware of that so they certainly take responsibility for their budget as does the fire department and making sure okay you know fire department's a little different not like they're out you know no one's out joyriding but trying to make good choices about leaving maybe a piece of equipment on someone's property so they can go back there tomorrow so they're not driving it all the way back to the garage to drive it back because it is it's tight and it affects us too well we've done a lot of things I mean it's not on the environmental things but up until a couple years ago the fire department they would just go fill up fill up the fire truck at the gas station so now we buy everything everything goes through highway and then they're able to it saves us money in that case because we're buying bulk but you know those are some things I mean I did anybody so in regards to the notes that trees had for the amendments the purchasing policy did anybody have any issues with any of the notes that trees had provided good to me I thought they looked good I know that was the energy committees so we did have a motion this evening to amend the purchasing policy right so if we wanted to someone wanted to make that motion we could just amend the purchasing policy with the notes that were given which seemed very reasonable did we want to check with the committee first we're not doing anything with the green fleet policy we're only talking about the existing purchasing policy the green fleet we were just discussing it tonight to make a decision on that another time how do I make that motion then we amend the current purchasing policy to include the edits from the energy committee and from trees thank you Lindley looks like she wants to second it yes so all in favor of that alright so I'll bring you a clean copy to sign I just realized I didn't have a second copy so as far as the green fleet one is right now you're waiting for the equipment committee to look through it and then have a discussion with the energy committee so in the mean so then they just adopted your other changes that you made then they just adopted those and improved them in here so the next thing on my mind is just pushing through these there's whole discussion about vehicle you know stuff and it's going to be a big discussion as we've already seen there's a lot of intricacies to the purchasing and external environment changes to the climate change and industry factors so just kind of thinking about how we're doing as committee if we're able to have the capacity to really take on that discussion and it's kind of like this we can try but something that's come up I know I've read in the slipboard minutes about a regional energy coordinator someone who is dedicated to helping implement the goals of the town clan that are related to energy committee like stuff as it's been kind of pushed over on us and it's something just we're going to kind of keep talking about within the committee and thinking about and gathering information on examples from other towns that's kind of what we decide we want to do at this point about it because this these sort of discussions do require like a certain skill set and you know I don't I don't want them buffalo for the rest of my life so just kind of thinking about how we can actually make sure that over the next decade when it's most important when there's droughts in Kansas killing 3,000 head of cattle when you can't grow sriracha peppers and get your sriracha sauce you know when the Hoover Dam is drying up the lake that feeds the Hoover Dam is almost below the level that can feed the dam to power electricity so over the next 10 years rely on volunteers to help the town implement these policies I personally don't think that's a good idea I think that's a plan to fail we do have voluntary capacity in town but we know it's limited so let's all stay tuned on the regional energy coordinator discussion keep thinking about it and you know we'll come back to that because capacity-wise it is going to be hard because we are volunteers and you know we got our own lives and stuff I think that Jean has brought it up multiple times I think that's something that we were going to discuss in the next budget round is to see you know what's the existing cost what are they paying if Bethel you know joined what that would that cost that would be the taxpayer so Jean has brought it up multiple times and is championing that so it's something that we'll talk about certainly in budget season is that the city is going to have to put their money into the and you're right it's volunteer capacity is limited and these are the perfect discussions to have with your local legislators right I mean because regardless of its energy or something else typically what happens in Montpelier is hey we're going to do this sends it to the town now it's yours to deal with we're not going to give you any money you're going to have to deal with this then it falls on to us right you know we are servants of the community right I mean to be on the slack board doesn't mean that you have a certain requirement to background or being on a committee right you're just there to serve you're volunteering your time and then it becomes we're not the experts right so and that's the challenge with like that's true that's very true I would love to do this for free for the rest of my life I can't sustain that so I made a note then I'm sure that Julie did too that the energy committee would like the town to participate in the regional energy coordinator and I think it's very exciting because Vermont is you would have the energy committee model for a while and I do feel like we are seeing that shift where we're recognizing we need a paid position within our towns or counties if you have multiple towns because the cost it's not going to I don't think financially it would make any sense the way it's going to make sense is that the CO2 emissions are reduced but if we're not keeping track of them in the first place how we're going to know if it works so it's kind of a ball of wax and I know we've had a long discussion tonight so I just want to keep things moving I would like to go have some dinner sure Gary Derer the chair of the Randolph energy committee is trying to get a meeting together with energy committee folk or whatever to talk about this shared thing with two rivers two rivers from Brookfield Randolph Rochester and I'm going to try to contact SORO and see if there's anybody down there that would be you know kind of a small little gathering of communities to talk about just in the process of coming together I will make sure that the energy committee that would be a great place to kind of research everything right there everyone's in the one room so they will yeah have these future discussions if any of you are familiar would be Johanna Miller she works at the Modnatural Resources Council and she heads VCAN helps direct that manage that I just talked to her recently and she was super helpful and more than willing to help in the future so look forward to the information about meeting dates and such well thank you for coming tonight and being patient alright thank you take care you should probably skip over the historical society stuff put it at the end but I did pull up some numbers just so you guys would have an idea last year after our art show the historical society had zero profits because we did it for the Ford Fest and then we gave you guys a percentage so the Ford Festival committee got $80 from us after it and the town of Bethel got $42 we're not talking about a lot of money I didn't submit this letter because probably no of me said give the town zero percent we are really trying to raise money for this war memorial and we went out and priced it before the pandemic it was going to cost us about $3500 we priced it just recently we're up to like $6400 for one war so now we're kind of looking at maybe we do one really large stone and put the plaques maybe we'll be able to save a little money but I'm thinking to do all the wars we're probably up to $45,000 if we do it so it's going to be very expensive we are looking at getting the stone donated that brings some price down but we have a very expensive project here that we are working on we wanted to have the World War II one done by now but now we're thinking maybe we're going to have to put them all in a large stone somehow with little plaques on it so but last year we gave the town of Bethel $42 after the actual the only profit from the actual for us is the money that we take in for the internet so there's not a lot of money involved so if you want to improve the 10% or the zero percent that's why we're not done by a lot of money so the history on this tree do you know much of the history of why the town gets a certain amount I just saw the letter I didn't know if maybe it was a bookkeeping thing or if it was a I have no idea the historical society you have your own account so the town doesn't have anything to do with that plan I think it's just something that years ago when we started the art show we've always had space for nothing so we gave back that 10% 15% whatever we were giving in the past I guess when I was looking at it I was thinking why are we even receiving anything that was my thing but I didn't know if there was something in some story about it or the way it came about last year and I said what $42 because it's really not I'm sure if I drafted the letter y'all had I would have said to give y'all nothing I mean we tried to put money back into the community doing something we've got a big book we're getting ready to publish this next month it's going to cost us a good penny but it's up to you guys the letter has been drafted by somebody I mean I'll just continue taking any commission from the art sale yeah any discussion from the board we're good thank you there you go zero is that what you do I'll get out of here before you thank you thank you I was just just out of the memorial that is two for all Dave jinxed us Dave's one that said he wanted to be out of here before 10 he jinxed us today to state that there's a gentleman in the back row is there something on the agenda you wanted to talk about no I just want to share with my wife two months ago I'm part of one of the meetings oh well welcome I'm here you know what we're probably being rude but I'm Teresa I'm the town manager this is Gene and Linda Lee is right there on zoom she's working out of town so welcome to Bethel so like no one sticks around this long so we are I was like I was starting to think maybe had a medical condition we had to go check on usually people so that's great and now we meet the second and fourth Monday and certainly if you have any questions about anything call the town office check our website whatever you know you can do it from from home if you didn't want to attend in person but you wanted to review it as your cooking dinner then you know you can do it through the zoom site too absolutely thank you absolutely so we had and Owen probably doesn't want to go he's waiting babes bars got a couple of requests for catering one first one is for catering event and then the second one is for an outdoor permit is that sound right Owen it's a it's still a request to cater but that's a cater too? yeah so the first one is the stained glass workshop at day breaks class 285 main street on July 28th from 6 to 10 with about 12 people expected and then his second one was for a dance party at babes parking lot dated July 9th from 8pm to 12am with the approximate number of people expected as 100 so just to be clear Owen and Jesse need a request to cater permit because they're outside their outside consumption permit area is that correct Owen is that fair to say my understanding is that fair to say it's a it's a funny form so it says here check one approved or disapproved and then the clerk but you guys are the local liquid commissioners so you approve or disapprove and then Pam puts her signature on them we don't have to sign those? no Pam does but you have to approve them or disapprove them do we need a motion for each one Owen? yeah I might have a comment Owen on the second one but the first one which is the Breaks glass studio one catering event for approximately 12 on the 28th of July I'd make a motion to approve that one all in favor? aye I think the only concern I always have Owen when we do like anything outside I know we talked about last year with the outside permit it's just kind of making sure that the area is well defined and I know as liquor board it's kind of we really don't have any power other than to approve there not to approve everything becomes state level like control at that point but I guess just the concern would be just to make sure that if there is 100 people that everybody is inside the boundaries being responsible so it does say at the bottom of the permit that obviously that Owen personally but babes has to follow all the liquor control laws must have a defined area for serving and consumption of alcohol with designated barriers must have separate toilet and lavatory facilities available for both men and women must provide sufficient number of employees for control purposes and so it does say that right on the permit too which I'm sure Owen we also need to look at how it impacts the town's property there too I think in the past we've had to isolate that property part of the property off right is that what you've done in the past Owen is just not allowed people to you've blocked off so people don't access the town's property that abuts you well when we've done the forward fast effectively yeah because the stage has been blocking that area so no one would be able to really go over there but for this party we we're planning on just blocking off the area where service would be happening and where people would be to be the same with footprint of the building which is 72 feet long so basically from the wall of the north facing side of the building to the wall of south facing we would have temporary fencing there so people would be contained in that area they wouldn't be in the whole parking lot so just the size of your existing building from the little wall to your front door correct yeah and this is just to open up some more space because it gets really really really hot in there and there have been like even this last trivia night we had on Thursday I just got a message from several people that tested COVID positive it just feels like it would be best if we could be outside but I do understand that so as far as parking would be concerned nothing about the parking lot will be different on either of those sides but people won't be able to drive through obviously and do you the DJ will be inside babes or out in the parking lot the DJ would be outside yeah and that's what you've done before and forward fast we have yeah it'll be a smaller sound system than that but yeah thank you okay any further discussion okay so I just need a motion to approve the outdoor permit second okay all in favor hi all set one thank y'all you too see you later thank you and then we had Luis the resignation for Lister which I believe we had been anticipating this for some time at some point was coming then we had made okay second so if anyone's interested and being a Lister come by and see Mo and Judy all in favor hi all right audit services so living in powers so nothing's changed it's always the same scope and I included the original I gave you one you have to sign both one stays with us and one stays with that I think this is the last year of our three year contract but I'll find out when I see him so unless you have any questions it's just a motion to accept all right okay all in favor you guys want to start on your side so you it's only three lines but you can come both copies please you can note that it's 7 27 not 7 27 don't rush it I know seems like the summer is kind of flying by already well we haven't had a summer it's been cold I know but it kind of seems like we're already like July 4th already you would not have been cold what were you doing I was cold because I was recovering from my sunburn Saturday oh because you went to Carl's my old left side of my body was sunburned my time I got out it was like you know where I was outside the tent sun this side no sun that side it was hot but what an amazing turnout there talking about the funeral for Carl Russell the select board member who had been on it a few years ago who recently passed there was a couple hundred people there we've got 200 chairs how many people were standing over there there was obviously 300 how many of these were you talking about just myself there was probably 30 people there I know yeah that's how many people were standing over there I heard it was really nice I was talking to the lady Ohio Ed King and then the last there was another one on there second to last we had the resolution for sale our stake in the Bethel Royalton transfer station this is something that we have been working on since March so pretty much came to conclusions there two months ago or three months ago and now it's just really been diving into the nitty gritty numbers so we and getting legal advice on language and so in your packet is the so I had sent you the email the draft of the asset purchase agreement between Bethel and Royalton we were kind of going back and forth but a quick reminder is Chris and I had negotiated with Victoria and David Barker of the transportation and basically it's just not a lot we came up with the numbers which were easy because it's the value of what's there so currently the value of built land, buildings equipment values other assets which was a lease minus some liabilities was 545,595 and the deal is that the purchase price is listed as a split of that that they would pay us a fifth of it excuse me at closing and then one payment per year after about four years the one thing they had taken our employee you know the employees will be transferred to Royalton effect on July 1st they had agreed to have since their benefits are a little bit different than ours they had agreed to basically keep them whole when they slid them over into theirs they have different retirement different insurance benefits and we had hashed that all out with them the other thing that Victoria and I had talked about was this kind of quote unquote true up because the town of Bethel currently has a book so we're paying the bills and we're doing payroll and we want to split July 1 so Victoria said look you pay them for the June days we'll pay them for the two days in July and then we'll do a true up which is you know once we have received unpaid all of the July bills we'll basically split the cash we'll take the cash and any receivables minus the payables and we'll split whatever's there if they owe us we write them a check you know we owe them we write them a check so current as of the other day there was 121,000 cash I say all 20,000 of it we can't touch because we have to keep it in a savings account to make sure that our obligation of the state for the transfer station is covered so we will collect their deposits until June 30 and then they will so you know we all know that a castle bill is one of the castle bills 40,000 so I don't really see you know a big exchange here our attorney asked us if we were going to give money up front to Royalton we said no they said no they have a line of credit if they need it because we figure we'll need what's left in the coffers to kind of pay this off and John has agreed to do his billing in the afternoon June 30 as soon as they close so we'll have an accurate receivable list so that was you know the crux of it I will say that the attorneys were having trouble adjusting the table of content so the table of contents is not correct but they it's because Royalton's lawyer drafted it and then our lawyer made some changes and our lawyer was trying to fix it but anyways those are the only changes and you were emailed that so it does state in here explains the true up set and also gives you the new monetary you know number and those numbers haven't really changed because Chris and I had come up with this preliminary numbers which you've been aware of for since the get go the only thing that we adjusted was the regular tipping floor cost came in at 121,100 so we had that liability in and we did add that to the value of the tipping station building so and they agreed to those changes so other than that it's really what we've discussed so as a side note the yearly payment that they'll be making to the town does that money have to go into a certain fund or is that going to general fund or does it put it to a capital fund unless it's designated by the select board unless it's it'll go right into the sorry if for some reason can you just repeat Chris your response to that question I lost I tripped over the mic and it's been a long night so yeah so where what was the question so the money goes back to the general fund so right now unless the select board decides to repurpose that money into if you want to establish a capital fund to put that money in you have to go to the voters the voters would decide they have to approve the capital fund and what's going to go into it so in the meantime the first payment and you'll be able to deal with that but for now it's all going to go into the general fund just that one installment which would be them paying us and then if we owe them money it's going to go into the general fund and it's going to go into the general fund and it has the true up I guess you could go to the voters and establish a fund and over the next four years after that all the money could go in the fund and you could decide to do something with that money or you could repurpose it into one of the existing funds type deal but it's going to dump into the general fund right now Linnley Paul we will never walk away from that liability we still have to pay something towards that on a yearly basis or maintain a fund of something the agreement was that as long as the landfill or the transportation is an operation that whoever is running it will pay the closure costs for as long as necessary via the state permit but both Bethel and Royalton have an environmental exclusion on their insurance policy which states basically if a well was contaminated and obviously we test for that every year and there's things protocols we do we would both be on the hook for that and nobody is insured for that it's one of the things we bring out in our audit too but anyways so that's the existing agreement the other thing that's here is legal there's all sorts of stuff there's a resolution which is outlines the sale and disposition of the Bethel Royalton transfer station and it resolves that Chris as the chair of the select board is authorized to execute and deliver the sales agreement and it talks about that he's also authorized to execute the note of sale of municipal real estate which is also in here to be clear this select board has the right to sell the property but the voters of the town of Bethel have the legal right to they'd have to bring in a petition objecting to the conveyance signed by at least 5% of the legal voters of the town it has to be presented to the town clerk within 30 days of the date of the publication and posting of the notice and if the petition is presented the town has to have the legal right to accept the resolution because the question whether the town should convey the property to Royalton on the terms either at a special meeting or at the next annual town meeting so as always the voters have input and have final say so we need a motion to accept the resolution a motion to adopt the resolution yep can they poll all in favor so this notice about the taxpayers being able to come in with a petition it will be posted I think it has to go in 5 places I think it's been a little while since we've done one so the resolution you can sign first if you want to sign the second page and just for anybody that's at home again like we talked about before us selling our stake in the transfer station doesn't change any day to day operations when it comes to our citizens on being able to dispose of their waste so we have told them that we plan to stay on as a member town and anybody that goes there now will be able to continue to go there we agreed to stay on that's 5 years right that's what we agreed to and then I don't think I don't know according to them I don't think they're going to hold on to it very long I don't know what they're going to do so I just wanted to say that Bob said it was fine to have the select board consider approving the documents tonight and advise them that there may be semantic changes but substantively no changes without their express consent so we were waiting for approval from Royalton and their attorney Eli which we did end up getting after they did their one at the last tomorrow night so the agreement sorry just all this legal ease so I will be the witness but you have to sign right let's see so you are right here you're going to sign as the duly authorized representative you sign here and then I'll ask Bob about the date I think the date on this may be June 30 but I'm not sure I have to ask him about that date while you're assigning really we had a presentation by I can't remember the name it's got a different credit card processing system that we don't accept credit card to tell an office that right no we used to but because people were charged a 3% fee there wasn't really a lot of buy in because people didn't want to pay that obviously on top of their taxes what does he have this is all incorporated in the nobody it's just slick nice I mean no cost to the vendor the business it's all right in the bill the person who uses the card pays for the 3% right and that's what we used to do but there wasn't a lot of buy in because people didn't want to up their taxes by 3% but you put that in there as an option it's really weird where did I see it central market is working into the clover system Greek House I think it has the same kind of Greek House so if you swipe down in South Royalton so if you swipe your debit or credit card they automatically charge you 3% it's kind of like have you ever tried to pay like your power bill online if you do it through your bank account it's no extra but if you do it through your credit card or bank card then they automatically tack on a fee probably just like that if you use the machine they tack it right on right up front it's probably not a bad thing to have the option especially if it's no cost to us I guess but the old days it was a cost up front oh got ya but that's what they're not going to do with the transportation the crossroads have got the little hand held unit so if you do it through your credit card it does all the amount most of them you can do right from now there's a little plug in right from your phone you can swipe it and be done did we have any updates to the American Rescue Plan or we just had that on there as a placeholder no I just had two quick things one is when I met with the equipment committee we have been talking about putting money into the roads taking American Rescue Plan money putting some money into the roads putting the equipment as far as the difficulty of securing purchasing equipment they're looking for another maybe to give them like 20 grand to put into the purchase of the next piece of equipment or truck that they buy and I think that you'll be hearing from them shortly in the upcoming meeting so that was a request the other one was from Robert Geico that continued with a question I would like to see us put in a flashing light I think he's looking for a light maybe at this entrance and not entrance of town he just really thinks that a flashing light somehow would really bring into the downtown and get people to slow down but certainly we will have information from the Better Connections grant about safety opportunities yeah lately the individuals that travel through town up Church Street and down Pleasant Street that are moving right along usually it's like we pick on the out-of-staters but these are all the local kids in there beefed up trucks I hear them blow by the house at 65 we'd probably hear them go by all the time so when the new budget starts in July we did budget money for a portable you know sign because we've got a lot of complaints from Church Street people watch it in the morning and they're like there you go need a budget sheriff's department sit out there and just get everybody one day write them all tickets because it's they're flying through there especially with all those one came through town you know I don't know had been doing I look just to see the other day how fast I normally travel through the downtown and it's anywhere between like 20 and not even quite 25 it's like 20 23 24 miles per hour you know to navigate through the downtown and this person had to been doing like 35 30 35 easy in a you know truck big tires you know not easy to navigate through and I was like huh she's you know so we are good with that town manager's report anything left okay you all set just in here is that so Morgan I meet tomorrow with Rita Cito and Alan May for a better roads grant program that you've heard Brian Brian and I talking about earlier Jeff Gillman is going to start on Gilead after the fourth of July to finish up the work that we'd started last year continue meeting with planning commission working with the state emergency management to try to get a FEMA to approve a phased grant for two large culverts one campground road one on sugar hill road so that's over a million dollar project but currently FEMA's picking up 90 percent in the town would be on 10 percent culverts of these these are one is on sugar hill and one's up I think near Ford's that really big culvert I mean we've got three massive culverts I think on our six miles of camp brook but currently so we're in the early stages of the application but if the feds are willing to give us 90 percent you know we that's phenomenal so obviously we're hoping that we get that so this is culvert replacement yeah I mean they're massive the road would be closed is huge yeah I think that's the one because then because he about sugar hill right pretty close yeah because and what they want to do is upsize sugar hill so they're talking to the state right now about any hydraulic study that had been done and but like I said we're talking about you know this is definitely over a million dollar project across the road right above sugar hill is that one big enough already they're saying in there that no so but like I said three of them all within 400 yards could be I mean we're just looking at two specifically but like I said it's very early in the application process and you know we really what we need is a phased water it's a culvert it's a 72 inch kind of squash pipe yeah yeah so um so just so you know but hey can't beat a 90 10 split that one isn't just a culvert but the the inlet yeah needs some work the water is not appropriately get um so we did receive our signed $200,000 paving grant award for the $400,000 Christian Hill project my structures grant application was recommended for approval I haven't seen the grant award yes I'm not sure which one was that for that's for the p vine that little bridge where you come down sand hill oh yeah that one that constantly floods so taking out that bridge and putting in a box culvert so um they were adding some money actually for engineering so I don't know how much he did but uh Cecil and I well we were working on a $750 grant to repair some headstones but um see about that tomorrow that would be nice to get yeah well we'll see tomorrow and um then I just updated you on the equipment committee meeting and and uh that's it how was it I can tell you what the decision would have been tonight I'm just thinking it'll still be the same tomorrow but uh anyways so that's it that's the report perfect meeting minutes from 13th June amendment um in the visitors Sarah is Sarah Danley with an end okay thank you I'll fix it right now hang on I gotta find the minutes first I like to write it on the actual minutes last page last paragraph oh here we go alright Danley wait let me fix that first oh dally Danley yep okay thank you and last page last page last paragraph Dave moved to enter into executor the executive Dave is the executive he's the executive the executive see ya thanks Brian that's funny alright perfect thank you both okay so just need a motion to approve as amended so moved okay all in favor alright there's some brief minutes update on the list and um volunteer spotlights for Neil Fox and Dave Aldrigate alright anything else to come before the board alright here none just need a motion to adjourn sorry okay good night see ya Linley