 We're back with the breakfast in plus CV Africa. We'll just continue with the conversation just as with promise The issue of security in different parts of the country. I mean, it's like Just after the election they seem to have been pockets of attacks and the fact that a lot of Nigerians Have lost your lives and the cost of this now just few days after the Kaduna state government announced an immediate imposition of 24-hour coffee on Sambo Gehry area of Chinko local government area in Kaduna state Bandits also have Abducted ten secondary school students in Kaduna now the state commissioner for internal security and home affairs Samoa owner Confirmed the incident in a statement that students of government secondary school our own Day secondary school to be precise were kidnapped. That was on Monday now while in a dam or the state commissioner Please see Pia for lobby Boba tola has confirmed a reported attack on Daiban community in Hong Kong local government area Not in Terabba at least 15 civilians were killed in the latest attack by bandits in the state It is spokesperson for Terabas state police command Usman, Abdullah. He confirmed the attack now going to Kogi Suspected headsmen invaded a local community of Kogi state That's the not central part of Nigeria the attack is coming days after There was an invasion in a certain communities called Edede community where 10 people were reportedly killed and several houses burnt The incident was confirmed by the Kogi state security advisor Jerry or more Dari now modern 30 civilians Have also been Killed their reports to the fact that 30 civilians have been killed and the United Nation had also condemned this particular act by Terrorists suspected to be members of the Islamic State of West Africa in Borno. That's in March 2023 but Just to understand why this is happening, you know after a very long time when we feel like we have gotten control it felt like we were in charge and Then all of a sudden we're having these attacks We have Austin Edgar who is a security expert. He joins us this morning from Ibadan by phone Austin is good to have you join us Good morning Austin, I'd like you to share your thoughts on you know the recent one 10 students have been kidnapped It's been confirmed by the police Public relations spokesperson in Kuduna state How does this make you feel when we have been grappling with that from a very long time and the issue of You know the cheap of girls. We can't forget about that well first of all we have to look at the Foundational ideology of terrorism Which ever name we that take or whatever from the tape Bandit's head man, we still know they are all formations of terror There are fractions or branches of the big tree that we already know Which is ice swap as the name goes right now and We we see that if we can truly please the foundation of which terrorism is set up it is the society places The world encodes success and they expect every season to act in a certain manner to be successful by the laws and the norms That are laid down in the society But when some certain people Cannot obtain that success By what the government have laid down They fall out from the society and form a group or a government inside another government This is the general principle of terrorism now from the election in time There was expectation That probably they will get a candidate of their choice From all the states that you have mentioned There were interest of who they expect to be their leader or their governor within this period there were also a Hightened security a lot from all those things We saw surveillance operation of all the military and the intelligence community working to ensure the safety of Everybody in this community But now there is a lack in security as you can see All the law enforcement and the military enforcement have returned to their various units and their formation and they see this gap for them to unleash This carol attack again And now they don't want to feel defeated Following the current regime of terrorism in Nigeria from a position of six to eight They don't want to feel defeated and they still want to establish their presence by creating so much panic in the country Generally, that's what we have seen from all these things All right, so Edgar you have a school of thought and if you look at it in its real sense You probably might want to align with it. It's that With the narrow redesign policy it felt like, you know, this element the bandits the terrorists and those Boko Haram, what have you were really out of business for a time? But then there all of a sudden have been up and then it's a time where we have, you know The narrowing circulation Not entirely but they seem to be some sort of improvement from what we have experienced and some people think that There might just be a connection with You know the sponsor the sponsors of this act who resist that, you know this particular policy went to court and of course Their their intentions or their desires have been met. Do you agree with the school of thought saying that? There might just be a connection With those who protested against this policy and the fact that we have Denier in circulation now and the uprising of this attacks Well, truly you you can never Exclude the banking system from any kind of organizational oppression especially in the seamless operation Every organization be it formal or informal be it legal or illegal require funding and These some of these funding especially from the criminal underworld They depend on their black market to do their funding so for a time being before the elections we saw that The policy from the Catholic sport with me from PBM Actually cry some of the black market that we can see the black market could not function Getting of arms was not possible for them. And of course funding their operations in any way. It was not possible So it is actually my own thing. I feel that the Catholic policy in Nigeria have been delayed for too long Though it's coming a very good force for us that was not comfortable for the society But it's something that's supposed to be a part of us more than 10 years back what have been implemented Okay, but I mean just looking at it now and I'd like you to also show your thoughts on this one Security votes now we also understand that you know the financial intelligence units in the country might just be Having some sort of clash with governors, but again the issue of security votes is very important Now with all of the states that you have security incident happening. We have security votes You know running to billions that are located to this state governors or states, you know, however It is that you look at it. Why do we still have you know in security? Why do we see have these element dominating and you know Having so much power and influence Despite the security vote despite the fact that these governors are in charge of your state might not necessarily be Constitutional that they control the security architecture in terms of the police, but there's also funding to that effect So how then do we still have in security taking the the front seat? It's all about governance You see some of these governors They are still very far. They are taking security for granted Their primary duty of every leader or every governor is to provide security for the people Because without security, there is no how they'll be prosperity in that states Take a look from Lego states They have issues in the earlier time until they decided To formulate a police trust fund or security trust fund that we have in Lagos and from that time That's trust fund I've been able to fund many operations Security operations in Lagos Providing vehicles and so many other things that Lego state have been able to achieve We have the highest population unless we still have Criminality but not like what we see in some states in Nigeria So actually most of these states They have not even considered like some state government have not been considered this that they need to have a trust fund And entrusted into qualified hands that will have them handle the business of security in their states I think they should be held accountable The citizens should be held accountable whichever way it is The citizens should hold their leaders accountable because they are not doing enough Check from all the states that you can hear all this happening I want to believe that they are not doing enough. They are only depending on the government's security They are depending on security from the police Then police have their own duties, but they can increase the security from this day by also doing their own efforts Secretly is everyone's business. And so they have to Fund the business of security in addition to the government secretary provided for them So, so I mean usually that does this statement that says that even Insurgency last more than 24 hours the government has and they need All this going on. Do you think that you know the government of different state has a hand in the insecurity that The various states are faced with Well, I'm excited to my own opinion and I will not accept that Okay, because we see that Police terrorism terrorism or any sort of government especially what is happening this time It has it moves from the political system Now political system is not about the governor or the ruling governor already is for everyone that has interest on who emerges as its leader so there are people who Did not succeed in the election of course they are agreed and some in their mindset. They believe we should make this state ungovernable Meaning that if Everything goes wrong The blame will fall on the ruling government or the ruling the ruling state governor So that is why I will not truly accept a hundred percent It is very very acceptable also from a standard. They will have a hand but I do not believe investment in So you don't believe that they've in insurgency last more than 24 hours that the government hasn't had in it Well, I I still believe that I do not believe that So how then do you also explain the fact that Shortly after the elections, I mean you look at the policy of the redesign there and out the scarcity of the narrative And all of a sudden the narrow is in circulation. Then you have this a tax, you know head on How do you then explain your security expert? I mean, I'm not saying that you're responsible It's a tax. I'm only saying that if you look at all of these conjunctions that have been put out Over time including a former military president or head of state That Eve in insurgency continues 24 hours after the government of the day is responsible for it And then I'm asking that over before the elections when you had this policy We seem to have experienced some level of calm peace Tranquility whatever objective you want to use to describe it But then shortly after we have the narrow in circulation then again. We have an insurgency This is after you also have a group of governors who have also working up You know to protest and to say oh, we actually went to cuts before this became, you know a yes So again, I ask you What could be the reason behind that and then you don't think that the government of the day has a hand in all of this Well, I cannot I cannot pinpoint to the government of the day like a like a straight earlier Terrorism terrorism the foundation of terrorism is based on political motives That means you cannot truly rule it out from the government of the day And at the same time I cannot say that the government of the day that is really influencing the terrorism because take for instance the elections that happened various Candidates from different political parties contested and some did not get what they wanted And you don't know how they feel about it and they have a way of expressing it So it could be that is from other factions that are not happy with the results of the election after making this trouble by any means To to critic their own displeasure about the election in the state That is one of it now on the cash crunch. It is true that we had a very peaceful Environment during that period, but after the elections everything escalated violence escalated Like I say just like every other business. We all need it as even as individual. We needed money to fund our daily life These people from the terror on the wall They also need money to fund their businesses to fund their operations. So now they see some little hope That there have been some luck in the government by releasing some cash Of course, they will have this cash to continue in there. They are terror attacks. That is what we are having But um So so so quickly now. Let's also also look at, you know, all the parts of this There's also a statement from There's a statement that's been put out This it talks about the fact that we need to be electronically ready so electronic Combat readiness is up to fight against It's up to it's very important to win the fight against Insecurity external aggression and other threats to national peace This is according to Dambata. Umar. So I like to share your thoughts down Do you think that why we are not winning while we don't seem to have a control? Entirely I wouldn't say, you know 100 why we seem not to be in charge of the situation is because we're not electronically ready in terms of combat that we haven't been able to apply technology to combat insecurity in the nation Yes, I 100% agree that we are very very far from the tech world Because we all believe in this traditional means of security and that is why we are getting it wrong all this year You cannot win the current war on terror by depending on the traditional means The technology part plays a strong and a key role in trying to To destroy the capability of terrorism terrorism in all of these nations that are advanced They also have this threat. In fact, Israel and US have the highest attack on terror against their nation But how are they surviving till now? Because they have enhanced every capability of technology and human manpower to ensure that they project their state Now taking from the state the situation we just observed from some state governors They don't even see a need for them to even provide the traditional physical security for their people not to talk of investing in technology So it is actually from every angle. We are not we are not ready because these organizations They get the best hands. They get the best brains. They get the big the best funding They are very calculating and they are very Decisive with our decisions if they want to attack they will attack if they want to fulfill their mission They will fulfill it But how could the nation or a state government withstand this attack? They have to be very decisive They must have a mission at heart to ensure that from every angle Converges in security is taken as a priority Security Converges is that aspect that enable the techie and the traditional way of handling security To the highest level of success, but from now we are very far. A standard aggression I just cannot access and just make my own opinion But if we cannot handle this internal ones, and I wonder if it's coming from outside No, so but I mean I'd like to also ask you if you agree that you know the challenges We're faced with is the fact that we haven't been technologically driven in terms of combat against insurgency or Insecurity or we're also looking at the issue of the fact that Some persons in the security force have been compromised There's a lot of compromise that has gone on lack of professionalism has also contributed, you know to the fact that we have failed in Winning this war against insurgency Well, that cannot be that cannot be ruled out in every Profession that cannot be ruled out or that is actually the case So I mean I want to understand if we have all of the technology in the world And then you have a lot of people who are compromising the entire process How then do you even win this war where you have molds in the system? Now when you have a lot of people who are not motivated people who are not paid the allowances people who are not properly paid and Then you are expected to give their 100 not an excuse for bad behavior But I'm saying that do we blame it on the fact that we're not technologically driven That's what we have not won the war or we also have you know in the system people who are sabotaging the entire process Over time there's been several reports from outside of the country where Sponsors of terror have been mentioned from outside for instance, you know you have Dubai, I mean you have countries of the world who'd have mentioned pink point and say you have Certain persons who are responsible for sponsoring terror and then again we we seem to say it's because we're not Technologically fit. We don't have all that it takes so I'm saying that it's that really what we're dealing with Or a fact that we're dealing with internal issues that people are corrupt that the system has been compromised that you have a lot Of people who are representing a certain interest and the fact that we haven't been able to prosecute and follow them to the latter Yes Just I'm like what what we are like Edgar can you hear me? We probably might just have a disconnect with Austin Edgar But we're pretty concerned and we have been talking about the issue of insecurity in Nigeria Not that this is the first time we're looking at the issues where students have been kidnapped We're talking about several killings and attacks and we have the Lord that's very explicit on the issue of mother It is you know mother is mother you don't even need a different explanation to all of this But is it that we're overwhelmed? We have the security architecture in the different parts of you know the country We also have the fact that you know governance of the state achieve security officers of the estate There will also be argument that oh, hey, and that's just a nomenclature But how also do you explain the fact that security votes are located to them? We should be a security concern, but over time The problem I just to be a lot of excuse us to oh, we don't control the police We don't control a lot of that, but then you receive a location every other time How come this is happening? How come we're also having this attack shortly after the election before the election with the policy of of the CBN Redesigned narrow notes and what have you cashless policy? We seem to probably have expised some sort of peace So what exactly would have gone wrong that? We're experiencing what we're experiencing and then some quarters are saying that all technology is 100 and then we if we have it in terms of technology then again We will probably have control over the entire security architecture. So I ask you Austin God, thank you so much once again for joining us Do you think that our challenge the in terms of fighting insurgency and insecurity in Nigeria? Is that we are not 100 with technology? Thank you for that question Integrated security approach will give us the solution. We are looking for for instance We have people Technology and processes. These are the three things you can use to handle technology Now from the point that you came from Yes from the people aspect They could be compromised because they are the one handling the system itself and then technology places on rule trying to increase in terms of intelligence gathering and also leveraging another aspect that the physical aspect cannot achieve and then we also have prophecies Involved processes that should never be flouted So it is these three things that must be considered all the time in order we can get In order for us to get a good Security architecture. So from the human aspect Some have been compromised. They are not doing it. Well, because like you said from countries like Dubai They are pinpointing. We want to know the result from that aspect. We are not getting results So we are only looking from the technology aspect that this area of technology. Are we also prepared? Because there are a lot of transactions for instance. There are some Issues growing after election This phone conversation with this conversation. I guess that's the only technology we can afford for Nigeria But for the ones that really affect terrorism, they are not looking at it. They are looking at the one between politics But we should deal with those ones that have to do with terror that is causing insecurity in Nigeria If they can monitor calls as what they are doing in going to politicians I'm sure that is fine for us. That is applying tech to dealing with this security Well, we have to you know, let it go at this point in time Thank you so much Austin Edgar for being part of the show. We appreciate your thoughts and time My pleasure We take a quick break when we return would look at the issue of cashless policy And the fact that the central bank of Nigeria the apex bank is asking the traders and those who are on the other side of the divide should embrace, you know different Payment channel just embrace the policies the apps or the apps and what have you To ensure that we're part of the economy. We'll talk about that when we return. Please stay with us