 Welcome back to the Breakfast on the Plus TV Africa. Our next conversation is going to the NNPC and it's a declaration of profit. The President yesterday, of course, through his spokesperson for me, you know, declared that the NNPC has, of course, recorded a 287 billion Naira profit declaration after 44 years. We are looking at this with Mr. Alex Nenghi, who is an oil and gas consultant. Good morning. Thanks for joining us, sir. Good morning. Thank you. Thanks. All right. So first question would be, is this something to be celebrated, you know, should we look at this story and, you know, celebrate this as a victory, you know, or a win for the NNPC and for the Nigerian oil and gas industry? We have always maintained that the way the company NNPC as an organization is going around, we've always maintained that it is wrong because it's not organized as a profit-oriented organization. So there's a lot of factors. You have patronized petrobras, which are by 2007, when they were going to meet me group MBE. Those were some of the things we were looking at. The NNPC as an organization is supposed to be a national petroleum company like any other company, like Shell, Chevron, that is profit-oriented, but it was just like a clearinghouse. So where this profit is coming from now has to be well-defined for people to really know, but this is the right direction to go. It's an organization, it's like Shell or Chevron or whatever, and they are supposed to have directors and run it like a business. Running like a ministry whereby it's like a clearinghouse. Act is doing job. This is doing job. The payoffs, that's not what NNPC should be. So the BIB, for example, we had to straighten that out, at least some of those areas would be clear. But right now with the clearing profits, it is the right direction to go. So how this came about is here to be explained to the public. What would you expect? If things were properly or were wrong the right way, what would you expect would be the ways that NNPC should be able to make profit every year? Like Chevron or Shell, it is a business outfit. So all this government intervention, bring this here, stand this banner here and all these things will not happen. You have the directors, you have the clear, defined votes, and assignments will be given to people. If you are the MD, you are the MD. There are authority, there are ways you have to do this business, and if you are not performing, you get fired. But this one is anything goes. Man, no man, you bring anybody there. Whether he has knowledge or not, because it's a clearing house. So if they start doing things properly like a business, then they cannot give full account. It's like I'm receiving X amount, I'm investing this amount. These are the things I'm doing. These are the profit, that's why it goes. Because right now you have all these leases taken. You give it to another company to run. When they run whatever profit they make, whatever they make, they declare, you put that as your profit and all that. So they still need to go the extra mile to start doing the company of set up the NNPC properly whereby people can really see the transparency in the organization to justify profit being declared. And you have to go through experiences. Right now you have already refinery. It has not worked for years. So do you declare dividends there? Definitely no. But if you look the overhead, it's still there. And there are several like that. So that's why I said this dividend being declared or profit being declared. We have to know where it is coming from because there are so many outfits there within the NNPC that it's not producing a dime. And it's just like a permanent pool where money just get dumped into. Like the refinery, for example, it's not running. So who is making profit there? Where is money coming from there? Zero. You just have a bunch of staff stuck in there. And you put in millions. We're on top of that. There are still training people on training. So I can't figure it out. So they have to come out to the public and tell us what part of the opposition that is bringing this profit. Yes, Mr. Nayee. They have to find a cover. Indeed. The president didn't say anything as to how the NNPC was able to bounce back even in a pandemic year. But what NNPC's GMD has said, Mila Khairi, he attributed the profit to lower borrowing rates. He said they were also able to cost and improve efficiency. So if he mentioned these three things as what they did to make them generate such amount of profit after 44 years, do you think the NNPC should be investigated for the past 44 years as to why they didn't do these things to generate profit? Investigating NNPC, that had been in the works for years. I was the African Regional Director of the Society of Petroleum Engineers, also the share man of SP in Nigeria for several years. All these things have been in the works. There is no organization that runs like that. So for 44 years, this time we are declaring profit. So what happened? They have a responsibility to explain to Nigerians what has happened over the years. Now you say after 44 years we have profit. Where is the profit coming from? Those of us in the industry know that that is an organization that is mottable. It's an organization that is set up to produce profit. When you have people like Aretha Dems and a lot of them there, they were gearing towards that type of petrobras, petronas, type of activity where it's like share run or share or a multinational way by you give account to the public. So for 44 years they've not done that. If they are doing that now, it's good. But they need to really sit down and function what that organization should be. It's supposed to be an organization like any other organization regulated by DPR or like any other company. Then they give their books and people will see what they have in their books. But so far this is a good start. But I still have my doubts how these come about because there are still several areas within the organization that cannot yield a dime and it just tack up human beings. There's no position that work like that. Now let's also look at possibilities of discontinuing and even getting better. There is more crude oil derivatives that Nigeria doesn't seem to be tapping into or making a headway with. If the NNPC was properly run, if every single derivative of crude oil was milked, if I can use that term, where do you think the finances of the NNPC should be from your analysis? Just it is an organization. They have leases. They should have the competent hands to run these leases like any other oil company. If they do that within good shape, all the production and everything you see all over the place, they should be in the position. Like nearby me here, they have a few with the two from Shell. Somebody else is running it. So what I'm saying is let them set it up like a proper company who will produce the oil because there's still time. Although they say oil would be of no use, blah, blah, blah. That is still some distance away from us and from the rest of the world too. So we still have some opportunity to set up the organization properly and maximize whatever profit we have and diversify it to developing the country. Within the next 20, 30 years, we're still going to be able to do it. So if they start to work partner and set it up properly and start producing oil like any other oil company with profit orientation, then we'll be in shape. What I'm asking, what I'm trying to get is what are the crude oil derivatives? Do you think that we should be able to make profit off? We've spoken about gas clearing for a long time. Lately there's been more talks about how we can also develop the gas sector to make more money. Are there other crude oil derivatives that you know that Nigeria doesn't seem to be tapping into to make even more money? Well, when you talk about other crude oil derivatives, crude oil is crude oil. You have gas, you have crude oil. So the components that come out of these products, they are the things that can really generate revenue. Like you get the crude, you refine it. The byproducts, we do a lot of things. We create a lot of jobs and all that. But what I'm saying now is let us set it up properly. We have refinery. The refinery goes to buy the crude like any other refinery in the world. They refine, they sell, they declare their profit. Right. The real business, if they do it like that, who will have supposed money? And under that condition, all these employment, you know, business quarter system and all these things are because you want somebody on CET who can deliver because you are going for profit and you want to maximize your profit. So you're going to set up the company and make sure people work properly. So I think that's where we need to go. You only have gas and you have oil. In 1939, when I came back from, you have worked in Gulf before out there, I found a fly from Lagos coming to Wari to go and spend a week before I go back to work. Gas was everywhere and I took it as a challenge. So the first gas civilization in 1980, I spent the whole of 1980 with one of our experts, Giba Grant is still alive. We're all in the team to see what we can do with this gas to generate revenue and make life better for Nigerians. That took one year plus. At the end of the job, we are great. We need LNG. We need the gas to generate electricity. There's so many components that will come out of it and this country will move that way. This clearing of gas will be our way because it's a pollutant but it's revenue just flying away. That led to the government now imposing a fine on the oil company for every MCF of gas they produce. How much? Five cents per MCF. Small money. But at least by 1981, when they came up with that, I stated by now, we shouldn't have been seen in the flare anymore. But it's never too late. We're going to say, now we have a day break, so it's never too late. We have to go back to the drain boat and do it right. We say about 20, 30 years to maximize it and use it for the development of this country properly. If that happens, all these things you're hearing about being employed, you're going to go down to the grassroot and pick the guys who can deliver the job and that's it. We'll be on peace control. We need that as soon as possible. Interesting. When we take a look at the books of the NNPC, between 2015 to 2018, they lost about $1 billion, even in the statement released yesterday by the president, they detailed all the losses that the NNPC had incurred over time. And the former vice president of Nigeria, Atika Wawaka, has been suggesting ways to construct this influence certain of the NNPC. Do you see this as a way forward? Well, it is. The point is you created the PIB and with the PIB you are saying set up different outfits around the organization. So break the NNPC into units that are profit units, refinery, refinery. If they want to get the accrued, they go like any other refinery in the world by the accrued refined cell, declare profit. They have a box with competent people. The ERMP, which is a present branch in the name, that should be an organization that acquires leases, get the engineered geologies and produce oil and cell. Then you have other branches. The LNG, which is a gas people, these ones, you can see the LNG in Bonnie. They are doing well because it set up like a profit oriented organization. But look at other branches of NNPC. It's like a YouTube just load people in there, pay money and just like whatever. And the DPR should be an organization to supervise. And whether you are NNPC or not, the way they supervise, that's the way they supervise any government organization that is how to produce oil. In this city, it's sometimes so these are some of the things we need to face. Okay. NNPC is not a solution. We are organizing to form separate organizations, profit units and make them efficient. We are running them the authority to run and produce profit. We turn the place in and make sure they get money. If you can do that, you get fired. That was helpful. Mr. Alex Nain, thank you so much. Hopefully in the next couple of days we'll be able to get some clarity from the Nigerian government on how this profit was made. Thanks for your time and for sharing your thoughts with us this morning and we'll see you then. Stay with us still as a Friday modern edition of The Breakfast here on Plus TV Africa. We're talking sports next and some celebration for the Nigerian Paralympic team. We'll be back.