 session. So before we start I just want to give you all a heads up. We are going to be streaming, maybe are streaming now on HowlRoundTV. So thank you for everybody who hopefully is joining us from the... So the League of Resonators, which is the collective bargaining unit of professional theaters all across the U.S. And Lort has a diversity task force working to diversify our theaters. And so twice a year when Lort has their meetings in different cities across the U.S., we started doing these ambassador panels to engage with local students in those different cities. And partly to... for the theater leaders to get to know young people who are looking to pursue careers in the arts. And also for those young folks to know more about what opportunities there are for them, for smart, young, ambitious, engaged people to bring into our fold. So I would like to start by just getting a sense of who is in the room here. So this panel is open up also to non-conference attendees and local students. So do we have any high school students who are here locally? Any college students? Great, awesome. And any grad students? Fantastic, yes. From attendees. Awesome, wonderful. Okay, so that helps us to knowing who we're talking to. That's great. So introducing our panel. So I'm just gonna let you all say a little bit something about yourselves. And if you can give us the sort of one or two minute version of, if that's possible, of your career path to how you got to where you are right now. And I notice that everyone left this chair empty so that you all would have to go for it. I sort of have to sort of have to be there. So good morning everyone. My name is Leslie Johnson and I'm the Director of Social Strategy, Innovation and Impact at Center Theater Group in Los Angeles. I've been in that job for a year. It's a new fancy title which I can tell you about as we talk. But for the past nine years I've been Director of Education and Community Partnerships at Center Theater Group. I like to claim I was walking over with one of my colleagues this morning and I was telling her that I'm not a theater person. I'm always doing this motion. I'm not a theater person although I've worked the theater for nine years. So maybe I should play more. My path to this moment in my career, like I think a lot of us was winding when I was growing up. There were not MFA programs, there weren't arts education master's degrees, arts administration master's degrees. So and I don't think a lot of people knew that there were, that you could have a career. I know I didn't know that you could have a career in arts administration. I was passionate about art and culture and learning. I came from a family of educators and I just thought I wanted to be a teacher. So I got my teaching credential and spent some time as an educator but kept being drawn back to culture and cultural institutions as a different mechanism for learning and I think maybe a more democratic and accessible mechanism for anyone being able to learn and express themselves. So I sought a job in the arts and I'll tell you in all honesty this was before the internet. So there was an organization in Los Angeles called the Los Angeles Arts and Business Council that produced a yellow pages type book that listed all the arts organizations in LA County and after I had a Getty internship for multicultural, to increase multicultural constituents in arts administration, the last thing they gave us was that book and I went home and on my typewriter I opened up starting with A and I went through with every organization that had an arts education icon. I sent a paper resume to and that's how I got my first job in arts education working for a very small nonprofit that sent artists from the community into schools and this was really part of the decimation of arts education in local schools so we went sort of a gap organization that helped the schools have music, theater, dance and visual arts. And then you wind your way through and a lot of that was through people I met along the way. Good morning my name is Kelvin Dinkins Jr. I'm the general manager at Two River Theater in Red Bank, New Jersey. I've been in my post for about three and a half years now. I left undergrad sort of not knowing what I wanted to do. I was a performer, a writer and a director but I said I didn't think you could make a career out of endless auditions and I knew that just wasn't me. But I loved producing. I took a couple of courses in producing and thought that it might be interesting but I always thought that producing was Broadway and that was sort of the only mechanism to get to that line of work and I didn't know anyone who was doing that much less anyone who looked like me who was doing that. So it was one of those things where I was sort of floundering after college. I interned and you know I was there and I was kind of trying to figure out where I'm supposed to be and I got a call from someone who was working out at Intermont Theater who said listen do you want a job and I said absolutely. What you know is working in regional theater would mean for me and so she mentioned associate general manager and I said well that sounds good enough. I've learned a lot it's general. So it was one of those things where I just I up and you know came from the east coast to the west coast I worked at Intermont in Seattle for about ten months. It was an exciting time there for that organization and from there I went to grad school because I just figured that there was so much I didn't know and there were so many people I didn't know that I thought getting a master's education would be my best benefit and turns out that was right which has been great. Really after I finished at Columbia I found to River or to River found me a fellow former co-worker was working there and she said Kelvin we have a general manager post open. Well that kind of sounds like a big job. It sounds like a lot of responsibility I don't know if I'm there yet and she said to me I'll never forget it she's like how long you take the interview. You always take the interview so I said fine and you know here I am three years three and a half years later and I've won so much through TCG being one of their inaugural spark fellows which is for the leadership development of leaders of color and so I'm really a part of this family now and a part of this network of producers and artists and creators and technicians that has really built up and supported me throughout the movement so that's why I'm here I'm part of Lawrence executive board of directors now and the chair of their board equity diversity inclusion initiative. My name is David Stewart known as D stew in the industry and and I am the director of production for the Guthrie Theater in Minneapolis Minnesota. I've been there for a year and a half and I got my BFA in stage management at Western University a long time ago and was a professional stage manager for 10 years across the country and eventually ended up at the University of Wisconsin Madison as a production manager and soon after that I got involved with US ITT United States Institute for Theater Technology and I started getting involved and started getting involved in this equity diversity inclusion work which I'll talk about a little bit later but eventually I became part of the board for US ITT which I'm currently serving but when I started doing this work in particular around equity diversity inclusion I started focusing on production a lot of people were focused on actors the canon audience development or development but no one was looking at production so I started poking production managers across the United States going we have to do better we have to do better we have to do better which eventually end up in Sharifa Joka saying you will go to TCG and you will start speaking to this to TCG so that other folks can hear what you're talking about and say that you never know who's looking at you in the room two years ago I was at this conference speaking about this issue in Cleveland and soon after I got any time I speak about this nationally usually I get theaters going hey we saw you speak we need a technical director I'm like I had a headhunter you all need to do this work also in an email soon after the TCG conference in Cleveland I got an email from the Guthrie I'm like well here's the Guthrie looking for yet another another handout and I eventually open it up it's like hey you would like you to apply for the director of production I'm like you sure you have the right day in the story because I'm an academic not a board production manager and they're like yeah we have the right person and it's like how did you hear about this like well the executive assistant to Joe Hodge which was the new artistic director at the time saw you speaking on a panel I thought you would be a good candidate so I ended up putting my name into the till and now I'm at the Guthrie and still doing a lot of work with the USI team. Hi everybody. I am Jamika Holloway-Barrell and I am the current fair assistant director at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival for the Mary Wiles of Windsor. My trajectory has been a bit more idiosyncratic than you know what I am hearing here I am a HBC a proud HBC grad and Durham North Carolina and I started out as a theater major I was a theater major for two years before my family found out. And so I went into theater when she finally came around so she said if you're going to be in theater you have to find something that's something that's going to be lucrative so I went into stage management and I stage managed for a while I also worked in New York City at the Lockplay Development Center as an artistic, artistic intern and dove into a little bit of new play development and then I was down at Cape May Stage for a little bit as a company management intern, resident for a little while and then I came back to North Carolina and and with no plans to stay at all and I started to go see more theater there my hometown and surrounding areas and just realized there was a severe lack of representation on the stages and I was like okay so I just got to change this and I was a stage manager with I'd say some theory promising prospects in front of me but I decided to stay and start a black theater company in my town so we are known as Black Ops which is short for black opportunities but yeah and so that has been my career in my life and so I run Black Ops and I direct because with a new theater company you can't like afford the line director then so that's where I am and in order to enhance what I'm able to offer my community I started to apply for for different opportunities and I came across OSF's professional development program and just really I love the work that they've been doing and really approaching things from a very equity lens so I have made OSF my home for the last few months and I'm so excited to be here amongst all of you kind people smart people thank you. Hi everybody I'm Jennifer DeBella I'm the director of education at Roundabout Theater Company I've been at Roundabout since 2005 so a while now and prior to Roundabout I was a trained as a director originally so director teaching artists working within the New York City Public Schools in Philadelphia for a bit before heading over to Roundabout and I've been there and since I've been at Roundabout I have done more and multiple hats and started some after-school programs and enhanced the work we've been doing in the public schools and and then I also created a workforce program in technical theater which I'll talk about later today so let's David let's play a video give you guys a little little idea of sort of why we're coming to this work. The arts. The arts. The arts are vital. The arts are exciting. I chose to work in the arts because it's a need inside of me to be creative. Because I think it's important to tell people stories. Because I love to be surrounded by artists. I have four years in college thinking I'd love to make a career as an artist but not really knowing where to begin. How do I get started? How do I get in? Is the field growing? There are more options. For a career path in the arts than most young people probably realize. I paint scenery from the theater. And green technology for the arts. The Bureau of Labor suggests employment opportunities in the arts can be judged to be grown by 11% by 2018. We don't want young people to abandon their passions because they're unaware of the career options that exist. I am a flagraiser of the arts. I'm a graphic designer. I work with teaching artists to provide arts education where funding has been cut. I'm a guy who builds scenery. The arts is a field that thrives on talent. I choose to work in the arts because I want to do something I'm passionate about because it feeds my soul. It took patience. It took endurance. It took talking to people that are doing things that I want to do but it's happened. And it's happening. I now have a career in the arts. I didn't want to be part of a big corporation. I didn't want a job that I was excited to leave every day. I wanted a job that I would be excited to get out for every morning. I get to work every day with the community at least. I have to be creative every day. Budgeting is hard. Cultivating relationships. Writing press releases. How to make our social media more meaningful than just liking a photo. There's public relations. HR. I don't want to be limitless. The arts. The arts. The arts where you feel connected. The arts are independent. The arts are everywhere. Innovative. Imagined. The arts. About five years ago decided to start a diversity initiative to begin the conversation around what Lord's responsibility is in training professionals and diversifying our pool of leadership across the country. We represent about 72 theaters that are spread out all over the country and when you look at the demographics of the people who are leading these organizations, they are predominantly white, predominantly male. It's one of the things that started this whole initiative. Over the years we've built different programs to address equity, diversity and inclusion. Right now we're focusing on race as one of those important factors to figure in. Because race and gender to help people of color and women apply for more executive level positions. So out of that initiative has come panels like these. The Lord Ambassador panel which we do in conjunction with every board meeting we do now in different cities across the country. We have panels in which are targeted at students as well as young and early career professionals to inform them about the career options in Lord theaters. As well as talk about our lack of diversity and why we need to challenge that, why we need to fix that and why we need more advocates to help supply the pool of candidates that are coming and working in our theaters. We also have a mentorship program that we're about to start and launch as well as a focus on recruitment which is where I work prior to taking over as chair this year. Which is really targeted at really starting that first step in the development pipeline for professionals. And that includes the Kennedy Center American College Theater Festival. We now do a training program with them once a year in which we take students from around the country and actually put them through a training process in Washington DC. They're exposed to different career professionals. They learn about resume writing, cover letter writing. They learn about fundraising at the Kennedy Center. Big operation. So we're trying to build opportunities that actually show people more than just continue the conversation. We're trying to be more active and proactive in providing resources. And, you know, this isn't funded. We're all volunteers. We're managers who are working around the country and focused on this work. And we're trying to build the network and grow the network so that we're pooling resources so that we really can attract the best and brightest candidates in the most diverse group. Because the theater should look like the world. It should be as representative as it is. And just because you don't see yourself in the work or these institutions doesn't mean you shouldn't be there. And that doesn't mean you don't have a right to be there. So that's been predominantly our aim right now. And, you know, we're starting conversations. We're having conversations, but we are very interested in finding the talented young people who want to do these jobs in the future. So thinking about the, obviously we've heard that everybody has different paths and there isn't necessarily one cohesive career path that any of us have taken, let alone that all of us have taken. But sort of putting a pin in that, thinking about career trajectories. I want, we've got some folks here that have done some real initiatives about sort of starting with early career professionals. So, Jen, do you want to start us off in talking a little bit about what you're doing around about to support that? Sure. So for folks who don't know, Roundabout is an organization that's been around for 50 years, one of the largest nonprofit theaters in the U.S. We produce on and off Broadway in five venues throughout Midtown. And the Education Department, as it stands, was developed 20 years ago and we serve 35,000 people annually, primarily working in New York City public schools for students and teachers, both using theater to teach other subject areas, but also helping students and teachers produce theater in their communities. So working a lot on technical theater education over the past 20 years. And then also we've created some onsite after school programs where students actually create theater in our professional spaces. They have access to all of the equipment and the resources that our professionals have access to. And what we sort of found from doing all this work is that we were turning on these young people to these, to theater and to careers, but that we didn't see a direct pathway for some of our students to enter the field. And so we started thinking about, well, how can we keep in support for these young people? We wanted to first get them to graduate high school. So 100% of our kids that have worked in our school programs for the past 10 years have graduated high school. Really excited about that. But what happens after that? So how do we keep supporting that? And so about six years ago, we turned to our partners at IOTC, the International Alliance at the IOTC employees, and said, would you be willing to help us create an exposure program? Just get the word out about all these different career pathways. Because if you're a high school student and you're working in costumes, right, you design the costume, you might build or buy the costume, and then you also, you're the dresser and you maintain where you do everything, right? And so in high school, you think that that's all one job. But in reality, it's all these different pathways, right? So the very beginning just exposed students to all these different positions and pathways so they can kind of find where they would fit. So we created something called Hidden Career Path Days, which has been really successful where students from all of our partner schools around the city come in, they meet IOTC professionals, and they get a chance to really just learn about these pathways. So again, really getting them excited about it, but no direct pathway. And what we were finding is a lot of our young people weren't necessarily doing well in college. Like for instance, Bronx Community College, which is where a lot of our students go to, the graduation rate is 10%. So it's really low. So talking to our colleagues in the IA and saying, do you need a college degree? Can you learn on the job? Can you learn in sort of an apprenticeship model? And they said, no, I think we can train young people to enter this field in an alternative pathway type of way. So we created our theatrical workforce development program, and it's really geared towards 18 to 24 year olds who are looking for an alternative pathway into technical theater. It's a three year intensive year of training at Roundabout technicians and teaching artists, an internship and then a job placement. So in the second year of the program, actually your place can full time positions at partner theaters and organizations around the city. The whole training year, they're paid too. So we're trying to remove any barriers from entry. So folks that need to be paid, that can often also can learn while they're being paid. And they're also paired with a one to one mentor from IOTC so they can start building their professional network outside of the IATX they're meeting at Roundabout. We also have been really incredible opportunities for our fellows. They are able to observe backstage on Broadway and off Broadway and go on incredible all access tours. They all went to the US ITT conference, which was amazing for them. So they got a chance to start building a national network and be part of the larger national conversation. Really trying to give them as many opportunities as possible to build their network. We also have a partnership with an organization and nonprofit called The Door, which is a drop-in center that really has everything they could possibly need, a health center if you need. If you can become food unstable, you can get a meal there. There's housing, support, legal aid, whatever they might need. And The Door has worked really closely with us to help support the young people and also will continue to support them as they sort of go off into their own careers. One of the things that I think is really interesting and I think that people don't know is that this is in New York City. The theater community has contributed like $12 billion to the city. That's just midtown alone. That's not even all the amazing theater that's happening across the city. There are 87,000 jobs directly related to the theater industry in New York City. What we are hearing from our colleagues both in New York City and around the country is that there's a real need for enthusiastic training technicians. And in fact, the field is projected to grow up to 24% in the next few years. So we think that there's a need and we feel like there's a pipeline issue in a way a bit. So how can we sort of put those things together? And then again, typical wages for these types of positions are $22 to $55 an hour. So these are good jobs too. They're, you know, well-paying jobs and you can live a great middle-class life. And so we're hoping that this program will impact not just the young people, of course, that we're serving, but also the larger community and how they sort of shift the landscape too. And we have, do you want to share a little video or do you think it's... Yeah, I think we should. All right, so we just put that together in a little video because I can talk about what I think is impactful but I think it would be helpful or helpful to hear from the fellows themselves. So just a quick video to share and ignore the lady talking in the beginning with the sound issue because that's just me. You don't need to hear it. Let me see. Wow. You already heard me. We had some technical issues going. Oh. It'll be dramatic. It'll be dramatic. Aligns of theatrical stage employees. And that was a way to share with high school students possible career paths for them backstage. And from that grew the idea wouldn't it be wonderful to offer our students the next step. From that, the theatrical workforce development program was born. You're going to be able to find the place in the entertainment industry where your own skills and talents fit. You can work backstage in show business. Have a great career doing things that you didn't even really imagine. I was lost. I didn't know what I wanted to do. College wasn't working out after my first year. So I kind of wanted to just get through the door and being technical theater. But I didn't have the skill set at TWDP to help me advance to the next step where I wanted to. She was very passionate about theater since she was living. But she couldn't find what to do with it. When she started with the program it was amazing. It's a new life for her. She's coming home with all these tools and you get to meet the people working in the field. That let me know exactly what I want to do. That assured me that I definitely want to be a carpenter. I want to be an electric technician because I'm seeing what it is and I'm like I can do that. I am proud of her. The biggest challenge for this particular program well I would say the thing that we not we anticipated it but it was really hard. So when we started we had we weren't able to show up for the trainings we were missing a lot and we worked really hard with him to try to create a plan to keep him in the program and we spent a lot of time trying to really support him and our colleagues at the door who's our social service partner you guys are coming from a youth development model where you continue to support the young people forever. We don't sort of close the door on anybody but in a workforce program we really get them ready for what they're going to experience in the real world if you will and by continuing to give a second, third, fourth, fifth, tenth chance they're actually not preparing him to be successful in work and so we had to cut him from the program and that was a really difficult decision for us but it was important also for the rest of the fellows to see that they were serious about this in order to be successful in any career you have to show up you can't be late, you can't sleep on the job so those were some of the personal challenges of the program that we anticipated would be hard and difficult for us but were for educators and youth practitioners was really hard for us So Jamika, would you speak a little bit about fair program and give us a quick overview of what it is but also I'm curious to hear from you as a participant what that experience has been like for you Sure, sure So the fair program and fair stands for fellowships assistantships, internships and residencies and offers a wide verification of different opportunities and design, management artistic and production where we pair participants up with I'm saying we but where they pair participants up with dare I say minds and practitioners in the country Fair is also about restorative justice and although it's not exclusionary at all we do operate with an open application process we do try to prioritize getting leaders of color into the pipeline because yes, there is definitely a pipeline Let's see more about Fair, let's see Oh, also age diversity is also something that we like to talk about in Fair, it's not just for young professionals and we don't put an age limit on what an emerging artist should look like career path should be so it's definitely also for seasoned professionals who need to be kind of reinvigorated or want to be reminded of how robust and rigorous sometimes working in rep can be so the other like very unique thing about Fair that you'll find we're not just looking for people who want to just go into the field and work, we're looking for leaders influencers, people who are going to go into the field and transform it so that's one of the things that makes Fair really unique Right now I am an assistant director on the Mary Wilds of Windsor and they really give you access to the room in a way that I haven't seen before every Wednesday we're in people in artistic, we're in a meeting with Bill Roush, we sit with the artistic director and there's room for us to share ideas and opinions which is always very helpful in professional development programs like strengthening that skill of knowing how to take up space in a room so that's something that's also very distinguishable about OSF's program what else can I say? Just in terms of your experience how has it been beneficial what's been surprising about it what is different because founding your own company is a whole another thing and so it may be comparing those two experiences I'll also say that for me I'm trying to find these loopholes around grad school I'm just a very creative, I don't claim to be a big academic or anything like I create where my people have always created from which is a very personal and visceral place so just a grad school alternative just at the rigor the schedules and just the positions that you'll be put in to meet different people and actually be a collaborator in the room it's actually something that has been very beneficial to me my company kind of operates a lot like a troop so knowing and understanding the dynamics of collaboration is something that I think I've really honed in on at OSF and also again knowing how to step into the room as someone whose voice deserves to be heard it's a skill that I feel like I've been cultivating a lot at OSF learning how things that sometimes we take for granted just knowing how to communicate with other creative minds something that has been enhanced I feel like from me at OSF as a part of the fair program just learning more better communication practices and then also being able to apply actively on a daily basis equity diversity and inclusion and you know and all my processes and I was also I want to apologize Jamaica Holloway Burrell she her hers she her hers I don't want to forget my pronouns it's definitely something that we want to create a safe space for everybody at OSF and it costs us nothing to create a safe space and just say who we are for those people who may not subscribe to the non binary so so that also at OSF just kind of like being able to approach diversity not just from a very culturally specific lens but very intersection intersectional yeah that has been my experience so thank you and so thinking about so programs that are the workforce development fair program really working like separate I don't want to say separate because they're integrated too but deliberate programs is one strategy and David I was wondering if you could speak a bit to the recruitment and hiring practices that you've implemented the Guthrie that are infused with sorry that are less separate programs and more about who the institution is at all sure so Joe Hodge came on board as artistic director at the Guthrie two years ago and one of the first things he did was go out into the community and find out what the community expected and wanted from the Guthrie and from that he developed a set of four core values for the institution those being artistic excellence forest walls and outreach into the community a plurality of voices and equity diversity and inclusion and a fiduciary responsibility to the organization so that we are on sound physical footing in order to execute the other values and through that it's great to put those things out there but without substantial policies put into place they mean nothing and one of the things is that we talk about these amazing programs and they are truly amazing programs is that you also have to have an organizational cultural shift in these predominantly white institutions before you start talking about diversity you have to talk about inclusion because if you come in and you are the only who I so often am and have been oftentimes we last maybe and Leslie and I were talking about this yesterday in an affinity space called people of color and predominantly white institutions where we our life span in these institutions for three years it's not because we can't do the job it's because we don't feel welcome in these spaces so there needs to be an organizational cultural shift in order for these programs to work you can't simply go I have ten things to do and diversity is number ten diversity, equity and inclusion is how you do the other nine things so every decision that I make at the Guthrie is through the lens of those four core values I don't separate them out everything I do in production is around those values so with that being said one of the things that we did was no homogenous creative teams so creative teams being directors and designers for the longest time we had predominantly male white male creative teams that is no longer acceptable at the Guthrie we now have to have racially and gender diverse creative teams because it is important to have a plurality of perspectives on the work that we do so it's not only about what's on stage but who gets to tell the stories that occur on those stages the other things that we do is that we remain open until we see a qualified and diverse pool of candidates now this one sounds easy but not so easy and the reason that it becomes important is that you sit there and go okay that's great so we're looking for a graphics artist in marketing and 300 people apply to get their grade we have the LGBTQ we have disabled we have people of color and our final four are four white guys that is not okay the final four has to be a diverse and qualified pool of candidates because so often what I hear is why aren't you just looking for the best person like they are mutually exclusive notions like we people of color or other underrepresented communities are not the best in the field and I want to dispel that notion right here and right now so some of the things that we need to do in that is actually attacking how we put out our materials in terms of looking for posting for positions and one of the first things our HR director said when I first arrived is what do you now you get a chance to make these job descriptions into your own image what do you want to do that's like the first thing I want to do is talk about why I didn't apply for this job in the first place because when I looked at the job description for director production says you have to have a master's degree or preferred which we all know what preferred means alright you need to have five to ten years of working in a multi-million dollar organization a multi-venue organization I'm like that's not me I'm an academic state production manager I don't have those skill sets but nowhere in it did say that you need to have cultural capacity nowhere in it did say that you had to have leadership skills nowhere in it did say that you had to be able to lead people and inspire people things that may actually draw me to this so we started going in changing and the first thing I did was take out all the educational requirements so no longer did say you have to have a BFA or MFA or any of that stuff it says I need you to have X amount of years of this kind of experience because when I'm looking for a welder I don't need my welder to be able to do a dissertation I need them to be able to weld on King Lear so we need to make that differential there so those are the things that we've been doing at the Guthrie it is not easy work because what it does is it involves when you have your hiring managers is that they have to go out and do active proactive recruitment so often what we do is we're like we did it at TCG and Art Search and we put up our website and they're just not out there they're not going to make which is bullshit alright we are out there but you actually have to kind of do some digging you have to kind of do some looking for where we are and one of the things that going back into that proactive recruitment is that there was a Washington post study that said that for the average white person in 100 of their friends only 3 of them are people of color so that's 97% of their network is white and so we production managers that are in charge of hiring and looking long term for possibilities hit this knee jerk reaction like I need this person so I need him now so I will go to my Rolodex my Rolodex is already 97% white in this industry it's like 99% white and then I'm going to find these 3 people and I'm going to bring them in at no point do we actually have some forethought in this so what we have to start doing is encouraging people to start cultivating these networks to start working with fair start working with around about start working with USAGT start working with TCG and that requires effort and intentionality great so touching on the retention challenge and this 3 year fall off the need for staff development as well in terms of retaining a really fantastic staff that we have can you talk a little bit about what you discovered at TCG and what you're trying to do to help with that yeah so I think I'll be a reinforcement of a lot of what my colleagues have shared so context so like I think many theaters like TCG has a staff led diversity task force and these are folks from across the company who have self identified as being interested in leading equity diversity and inclusion work at our company and we started convening amongst ourselves certainly sanctioned and applauded by leadership but we I think increasingly being empowered to recognize that that company actually belongs to all of us and we don't have to wait for our board or our funders or anyone who sits in a to help us help make our company better and stronger that we're empowered every day to make decisions in our sphere of influence on our desks and in our work teams so with that kind of impetus we formed this task force and met monthly and had a lot of just challenging conversations amongst ourselves and kind of tried to be as forthright as possible about how we felt working there and sort of getting to the inclusion theme that these two brought up ultimately we decided that we wanted to have equity diversity inclusion be a value for our company and so we thought a good way to go about doing that was to create a purpose statement that was staff developed and to do a survey and find out who we were, who is the integrator group the folks who work at our company and also the folks including our union team so we as a staff developed the questions we deployed the survey, we collected the information these are people who have gigantic full time jobs and it was really revealing it was one of the most revealing things I think that I've experienced in my professional life to learn who we are so to reiterate some of what's been said here on the panel 90% of people who work at center theater group are have a BFA or MFA why I do not know we have more women than men working at center theater group we had people at center theater group who weren't sure whether they ever received a promotion they may have but they actually didn't know for sure if they had we had an enormous number of young people working at our company so I believe it was 43% of the folks who worked at center theater group were under the age of 35 and this was in 2015 so a lot of young people but I want to touch on the three years so one of the most getting to retention one of the most dramatic discoveries for our task force was that a large percentage of percentage of our staff left the company after three years and this is across kind of all job types but primarily in those entry level positions and that's also where we see kind of the most diversity in all areas of diversity in our company right that one to three years so people are coming in, they're stepping in we are somehow getting diverse and again in all those different ways folks in the door we're not keeping them, they're not staying at our company which has required us in this now second year of our task force to have a really tough conversation about our company culture and to think about even beyond ED and I how are we being respectful to each other are we kind do we listen can we work out a conflict in a way that is successful where no one feels belittled who's in the room and we understand what each other do and I actually have some of my senior colleagues here in the room and I see them nodding their heads and it's not unique to our company I think this happens in a lot of places I think arts organizations are kind of a band of brothers or maybe a I don't know a band of tribes we talk about silos a lot the education department the marketing team right and then there's the other kinds of tribes there are the EDI tribes the people of color, the women and there's the other kind of tribes we call them upstairs the senior leadership it's so funny if I'm billy so janky you don't want to say that but I guess all this just to say it was you got to open your underwear drawer you got to open it and be honest and say wow so what we get to should we have more people with disabilities in our production team or how do we get more women in leadership positions or how do we have an affinity group we need to be nice to each other and I think if you're going to embark on an EDI conversation in your company these are challenging things to talk about there's hurt there's wounds that get reopened and it's personal and if the culture doesn't support that just the day to day way we do our work doesn't support that those conversations aren't going anywhere so this was our discovery I don't have a great monologue now to tell you about all the things we've done to fix it we're in that work now we're talking about having affinity groups which is a solution a lot of theaters and other kinds of organizations have come to I think that's a good idea but we're also debating we've had some questions from folks about the legality meaning if we're sitting in an affinity space like let's say we have a women's group and I reveal in fact that a man in the company has touched me inappropriately as part of that conversation well that's an HR issue so how does that bubble up into the appropriate official channels right, things like that but I think we're going to get to affinity groups and I think that'll be healthy for our organization the other thing I wanted to share was that in talking about retention so thinking about corporate culture that create healthy, safe work environments for people and not being afraid for them to find other kinds of tribes in the official channels that exist in our company breaking down some of those walls but not building new ones, I think is where we are right now trying to figure that out but the other thing I wanted to share about retention is we like Roundabout, well not like Roundabout their program's amazing but we have jealous down here hashtag jealous we have a very traditional outstanding internship program that's run by Camille Shankin who's my colleague in our education department she has over the last five years built a robust gorgeous exceptional program that expanded the work that we were doing primarily working with some of the more exclusive and elite four-year universities in Los Angeles to now having partnerships with dozens of schools including two-year colleges, community colleges career tech schools so we have a really terrific internship program that's pretty traditional interns get paid, everybody gets paid unless they want to receive school credit they get placed in departments with supervisors but I wanted to tell you about two aspects of this which are now informing our overall retention program one is that primarily our interns are supervised by mid-level managers so not department heads but people sort of working for them really we have an amazing this is one of the strongest bands of people I would say in our company this is really where the heart and soul of CTQ is where the work gets done at that mid-level and these folks may or may not have full-time staff working for them so it's wonderful for them to have an opportunity to go through a selection process of looking at resumes interviewing people choosing an intern and then supervising them so it's a professional development opportunity for them and what we have decided is that this is a chance for us to change the hiring manager's mentality because these people are going to go on to lead our theater and other theaters and if we can help them change their practice and habits about how they look at resumes who they'll take a chance on because someone took a chance on me again I'm not a theater person but Michael Richie saw something in me and hired me to lead the education program at Center Theater Group without an MFA I didn't know when any of the Yale School of Drama made 300 playwrights I didn't know what a dramaturg was but this notion that you've got to look outside what you're comfortable with and not that we've given up on our senior level managers but these mid-level managers are deciding to think about how we can help influence their leadership their sense of how to build a team so that's one thing I wanted to share sort of an outcome of our internship program another outcome of our internship program is that so we have our interns who are placing their departments and primarily work with those teams and those supervisors but every Friday during their placement we have a professional development session for them and this is the beautiful curriculum that Camille has designed that includes things like understanding the ecosystem of theaters in Los Angeles because for some reason everyone thinks we're the only theater in Los Angeles and God knows we're not and we may not be the right place for you to work and we want young people to know that so kind of helping them understand that there's lots of things you need to know yourself and know your passion and know your kind of theatrical philosophy and then they think about a place that will be right for you we do things like resume building, we do mock interviews so just something to augment what they're getting in their placement and likely augment what they're getting in their degree program well I'll share that a lot of the young professionals that I mentioned who are CTG years those folks who are under 33 who are working for us day in and day out in their first 1, 2, 3 years have come to us and said well gosh some of the stuff you're doing with the interns on Friday I'd like to receive that thing where you're looking about leadership styles we do kind of a process with them to discover their own leadership style taking that Myers break test so they don't learn more about yourself yet they go good old Myers break test a lot of our folks are like why aren't we getting that as part of I'm still a young professional still discovering who I am still discovering my voice and what I want to do and you're pouring all this into the interns who are here for 10 weeks and I've been here 3 years so we are now in the process I'm going to be working with our HR director to find a way to create an emerging professionals program at our company that is a professional development program for our employees that will hopefully help them feel invested in seen and particularly help us in retaining folks who are a little different at center theater group so that we can kind of stop that churn at that 3 year mark we'll touch on the organizational culture aspect of this and yes we need to step out to help Pat's river have incorporated EDI into your current strategic plan to help with that organizational shift and not just have it be by thought so we had our strategic plan done by a professional management company about 4 years ago and since a lot of our priorities have changed significantly so in partnership with my managing director we took a look at our current strategic plan and we said a lot of this is outdated a lot of this isn't really saying what it means and now that we are approaching having a cultural shift in our organization diversity inclusion we have to incorporate that into every bit of our program in every department and how we face outwardly to the community so how do we do that, how do we start that conversation so every meeting so we're actually doing our own strategic plan together as a team and it's been a long time and it's been a lot of work and it's a lot of redrafting but it's actually our senior management team sitting across from each other and questioning and critiquing and challenging people on what we are saying is our core value and if we are going to talk about equity diversity and inclusion where does it go in your set of values for your organization how do you talk about it because you know I'm very much a believer that diversity is not a verb it is an aspiration and I think too many people throw that word around like they're doing the work it's not true you have to be intentional at every level when you talk about serving underrepresented communities well what does that mean to your organization you know we want to provide you know programming for Latino playwrights or Latino audiences well what do you mean by that you know why do they deserve a place here so we're going through every line by line and talking about what our goals as an organization are but especially departmentally because it's a question now when we have season planning now and we look at our design teams their hand now and say there's not enough women here being able to say that so freely and openly in a room is a dramatic step forward for some people and the fact that I'm not the one who has to voice it all the time is very good our organization has come to respect and understand that EDI is what we have to do it's not something to sit around and write about how hard it is anymore we have to take it back to the basics which is what is written on paper about two river theater company it's very important because once you see it at the staff level that also has to sort of permeate up to the board you know a lot of these managers who are right now doing this work across the country will go to other organizations they will retire they will move on but the board remains so when we talk about fostering that culture and that sense of importance within the organization we have to put those stewards to the test to see why it's essential because every manager that we hire every artistic director and managing director in the future holds EDI and I as a core value as part of their leadership style and as part of their practice because our organization needs it our community deserves it and our audiences need it more than anything especially our young staff professionals so we've taken on looking at our strategic plan in the most intentional ways and really spelling out so that diversity isn't just the buzzword we want to be able to hand it to anyone you know what I mean and actually spell out so that they know what Two River Theater is doing to further equity diversity and inclusion so that's been a process especially in job postings and ad placements you know talking about production I raised the question the other day you know we have a sort of blanket statement for you know Two River Theater is committed to the growth and fatality you know diverse working environment and it's a especially underrepresented and I said well for production is that true are we set up to accommodate someone who for instance has mobility issues to all of our entrances in our shops and back and forth across the parking lot do you mean that when you say that you're open because if someone applies and they have a disability I want to know exactly how you're going to address that with that candidate with a straight face and say that yes we are here for you we are open for you and I think that goes across the board whether you're targeting women, people of color and different genders and different socioeconomic backgrounds and you're having a real conversation about how your organization is going to open up to those people that's why I just say it doesn't stop with the word diversity there's so much more behind what you're talking about and that's creating quality for everyone who wants to work in a non-profit theater and really you know put in the sweat equity you know why not because it's going to be open so it's a part of everything we do it to River now and we're in the EDI Institute through TCG because the learning has to be across the board it can't be one person always rallying the group and saying well that's not right you need a team going in there there's nothing better than a partner in this work great so I do want to open it thank you all to all our panelists I do want to open it up for questions and conversation so just to give you what the next 27 minutes will be we'll have some time here to have some questions so if you've got something brewing think about what that might be and then we are going to save some time for some networking in the best way of that word opportunities for you to meet each other that are in this room so if you hopefully got an intake I'll give you some more instructions in a minute but in the meantime do you want to share our panels or if your organization is doing something that you really like to share I know that there's always so much wonderful expertise in the room that isn't always fully tapped to these types of panels we'd love to have you share something that you are doing or a challenge that you're grappling with too honestly so do we have any questions or share out I really appreciate that we have several kinds of communication for theater for me in a conversation with the artists that you must we have to have that archetypal theatrical childhood and there are a lot of foreign languages but until we see someone do play like Blue Door or doesn't get desired like played by people of color so is this something that you people as pioneers maybe you and I look for are sort of foreign to the trade you mean specifically seeking out people that don't have a theatrical background sure and maybe they're self-starters right I speak at a couple of high schools in Minneapolis and when I go the students are basically disengaged they're like I could give a shit but you're here because it's career day and you're here and I don't have to pay attention and so the teacher is fighting desperately to try to maintain the group and they're on their cell phones I'm like well time out don't put your cell phones away like what are you doing on your cell phone I'm doing homework show me the game you're playing and they show me the game you're playing let's talk about the game you're playing I play PlayStation 4 I'm playing Call of Duty I was like you guys ever heard of X-Men Origins I was like I was in that game I was like I did motion capture for that game and they came up through the theater I said the opportunity to be in a video game came up through the arts and I started talking about the opportunities through art that exist in doing the thing that they love most that they could do they could be a superhero and act it out they could do voice over work they could write for it they can do the design work for it they can design the environments for it they can game test it I was like so much that it's cultivated through the work that we do so yeah always looking for those non-traditional routes looking for that thing that so many young people have that artistic spark that output and we don't do enough to cultivate it and we so busy that they're going put that away and pay attention it's like no let's cultivate the thing that you're interested in and hope to draw them out into their artistic in the general sense way it goes both ways so if you are interested in theater and you don't have that background how do you frame what you've done in a way that connects and also on the high-race side how do we stay open-minded to seek those opportunities and to see that connection again talking about the job descriptions also what are the actual skills that you need in order to succeed in this position I also just wanted to add for something we haven't talked about particularly for young people middle school, high school even college the notion of the parent influence so actually you joke about your mom but I think it's a similar thing where parents don't know what jobs are available real jobs for example job job I'm going to be okay job but I'm being honest I think when people think you're the actor and they go oooh that's a tough life for my child I think to really think about the fear that parents have and want their kids to be successful and stable one of the things we do we have big college fairs and career fairs where we're trying to connect school and work and exposing young people to all the different careers which is I think often times the pathway in for people who aren't theater people we love to say so we just saw a show and how many people were in the cast so four or eight or whatever great open your program to the back and look at all the staff there's hundreds of people these people have jobs in theater too so we talked to parents about that whether we're doing our orientation for our student ambassadors where we require the parents to come or we're doing that with our interns or at our college and career fairs just reminding people that there's dozens and dozens of jobs and I think this video from Berkeley Rep was really helpful we're also trying to do more with having these short videos that teachers can show in their classrooms that highlight jobs that we don't know about jobs that aren't seen and talked about and also showing faces of people doing them who look like our students so there's just one little minute videos I think we're calling this our working in theater video series just trying to publish those for people to get more information out and say oh gosh I didn't know theaters hired graphic designers I thought you know I was the only director of actors playwrights I just wanted to raise a comment because so much of the focus is on the entry level and you're concerned about people who are being trained and lead your organization and I think that not every organization is prepared to create a career path for every employee you know I was an intern at center theater group and you know I came back and ran it and and I left because there was a certain moment where Los Angeles was no longer the place I wanted to be and even for young people there is a period of discovery that these organizations are wonderfully positioned to provide and that discovery could become I can do this somewhere else and particularly in response to the comment about not theater people ultimately unless you're getting that spark of excitement from what you see on stage and knowing that you're a part of that it's not sustainable I think that generations today are going to have three or four careers and so this is a great place it might be the place it might be a first stop that's very fair very very fair absolutely let's see here is that Diane? I just wanted to command all of you on the programming because I think the diversification of our theaters is absolutely multilayer I'm interested and I want to address this to Calvin what is Lord doing about the hiring of artistic directors which is the other end of it a very important end of it we just had two theaters that had openings Pasadena Playhouse and Arizona Theater Company I don't know what that pool was I don't know who the finalists were but certainly we did not get a woman at either theater or anyone of color so what is the training that you're doing for potential leaders to go into these fields do we have to be patient do we have to be filled with range where should we be in your opinion about what our future is that's a really great question so there are about I think five to six openings across the country right now and that became a very big part of what our initiative is doing is actually evaluating and studying those positions and how those searches are going the hiring subcommittee that we have in our initiative is to send a letter to these search firms and to the board chairs and to the remaining partner at these Lord organizations and a letter in which we'll reassert our values and goals as Lord that we're committed to diversification we are committed to seeing top-notch candidates being considered as part of these search firms or if they're board led by selection committee so we're asserting that we do hold these services and as a member of the association that we would like for you to uphold them as well now can we hold everyone's hand and can we walk them through and can we force them to consider no we can't we represent 72 different theaters this initiative again is a body of volunteers but it's something that we say that together certain people have identified as a core value in their mission and talking about where do these professionals come from are they being considered when these searches go up for artistic directors and managing directors Wellesley is represented here in the room just published a study where there's zero men of color managing directors in the Lord theaters so what do we do about that right we look and we turn to people who are at organizations in positions that are developing towards those goals and we put them forward and I know that because I'm one of them but when you look at that sheet we have managers of color who are male applying for these jobs I'm probably number two or three and I've only been in the business maybe seven years so we're talking we've talked about the pipeline and the pool and how we get there but we have to identify and uplift those individuals who are targeting those positions at the same time so right now a lot of what we've done as part of the Lord initiative is to evaluate the data because we can't speak generally about what we're putting there but we're putting forward a lot of our candidates who are people of color who have made themselves known two fellow managers but we're also asserting to our theaters time and again this work has to happen especially when the searchers come open and especially when the firms go because we're going to always be held to task but we're 72 independent different mission led organizations 72 we didn't all sign up for the same stuff we've identified this as an association this is important to us and how do we change this culture so we don't perpetuate it that's the kind of best answer I can give you right now in terms of what we're doing I want to throw some props Lord's way I work at Kennedy Center American College Theatre and they've been working directly with us for the last number of years in terms of introducing our students to leadership programs across the country so their investment it's very it's vertically integrated and I just want to make sure the Lord can have some props for that that's through Kurt Columbus at Trinity and it's one of the places where we've had to focus because when we look around the room and we talk about development of talent and identifying people who might be outside of theater or outside of these Lord theaters doing the work that we also have to develop that talent pool at an early age too so we've been more successful in really attracting people of color and women at the early stages of the college level right now in training them but then we also want to talk about how do we support those candidates going forward in their career so that they land at one of our theaters so that would cultivate those relationships so it's all been a process and something that we're trying to build towards I also think something interesting is like how do we vet for practice and not just people who are come into these institutions learning the vocabulary and then learning the vocabulary of Edie and I and then going out like how do we vet for actual practice absolutely I don't know how Lord does that or goes about that but we get people in these positions because of what they say they do and then yeah so how what ways are they still trying to combat that just a question and I'm also struck by who makes that decision right so I mean you gotta talk about board diversity because they make that decision and you gotta talk about the consulting firms because they're the ones who are hiring and they're the ones bringing us the candidates and if your leadership doesn't turn back and say that pool's not good enough consultants keep working right so I mean it's really that where's the lever is are the decision makers and I hear you I mean I don't have a solution I'm just saying I hear you saying how do we how do we influence that how do our boards change I think it's a related question that they and what you're asking you know because they're the one making that hire and I think actually going back to what you were saying in terms of the intern program influencing how you think about professionals at your company there is again this is not the fix but something to be said that if you have a organizational commitment like David was describing at the Guthrie we will wait until we have a diverse and qualified pool if you have that as your standard at your how could I mean I know this happens but how could the board or the consultants not adhere to that right so you've stated and demonstrated and this is your commitment and then you have something to refer to if you're not getting that at the executive level as well alright great so we're going to do maybe two more questions there is something yes so Kate she heard hers I am a designer and I was primarily in Lord theaters and then also in New York I'm super lucky that a lot of the regionals that I work at you know they'll bring me back for like one or two shows a season so I end up seeing a lot of the same faces and a lot of the same teams and I think that's actually a problem and so David my question for you because I think that your initiative is amazing what do you have many examples of conflict and conflict revolution when it comes to directors who want to work with their core teams yes absolutely it's part of the conversation that Joe Hodge has with the director before we say yes you're going to direct the show we lay down our values to them and say just so you know you have to have a diverse you cannot have a homogenous design team and then there are times like we also don't want that those foursome because we've heard about that team and they can be problematic or whatever we don't want we want to disrupt that team so we've told that to directors before that foursome cannot be together you're going to have to check it out and give us another listing of that so the directors are told to give us a listing of possible designers they give that list to me I send it back so that my staff has input into it as well so we don't sit there and go now you have this designer and they're like that designer was a hot mess for us so I don't want to put that stress on my teams so they get input as well and I send that back up to Joe Hodge and then we try to hopefully we mitigate that we've been pretty fortunate so far in that regard what if they say no the director then they don't get hired then they are not that's very very specific and that's something that we don't do and we should be doing at our theaters that is very good if they are not on board with it and just to highlight the importance of that coming from the artistic director the director will do that they will say artistic license they will say artistic freedom and how do you that's a big argument then they could go work somewhere else but not if they're the artistic director exactly right but you know Joe Hodge there's rooms in these conversations and it's easy to like to do he's like I'm the first one to pull the pin and throw it down the hallway in these meetings talking about stuff and board first put together their diversity community he's like you all have no people of color out there what are you doing what are you doing and he's actually the one that wants Lord to have more teeth in it but it's hard to make a volunteer collective do anything yes right here I have another question for David actually I was really encouraged to hear from Jen that Roundabout's program not only has such great support from IOTC but IOTC is in fact a really willing department at our theater we're hiring for a head electrician right now and currently all of our department heads are white men I was really excited this opportunity and I was excited to be asked to sit on the interview panels and I was really disappointed to find that all four of our final candidates are male and in fact throughout the interview process with three of them they actually specifically referred multiple times to working with their male crews there was never any discussion of women and there is only one candidate of color in this school so when you're hiring a department head position obviously there are a lot of voices giving their input as to what the priorities for that candidate ultimately are but how do you address those conversations with your union partners to ensure that they are prioritizing the same values that you are right it is in our union agreement that that mantra that maintains the right to hire who we determine is qualified for our positions so the union really has no jurisdiction within the walls of the Guthrie when it comes to who we determine are qualified so in our hiring order it's when we go through that it's very specific it says hiring the Guthrie retains the right to hire the most qualified candidate as determined by management I hate this phrase affirmative action goals as well as emerging young talent and then it comes to those in previous employment followed by senior already followed by those who work in a twin city so there's this litany in there it all resides with us when we do it so it's up to me to cultivate the hiring directors hiring managers to actually start embodying that one of the things I put forward is that they have to ask the same set of questions because I think one of the end around that people can do on that is they go great we brought these candidates in the guy that I really want the softball questions and I'm going to ask the woman candidate the hardest questions that are impossible for them to answer so they have to answer the same questions so that there is no work around in that and I need to be part of that process as well great so I know I see you and I see you I'm sorry you've got six minutes it's not a lot of time but I do want to have an opportunity for everybody to meet someone and so for you all if you have further questions for individual panelists I encourage you to please them and ask so just to put a pin in this conversation obviously there's a lot of work that's being done which I think is really tangible and useful and is furthering these goals and there's a lot work to still be done and just to call out TCG for being a real partner in all this work and actually really leading a lot of these conversations and if you all are interested particularly in TCG's EDI Institute and their other professional development opportunities just check out TCG.org for all of what they offer there so this is going to be a little experiment we'll see how it'll go hopefully you all grabbed a name tag with some color on it when you walk in so the idea here is that you'll meet a person of every name tag color and if you didn't grab one that's fine just join in and so part of the idea is for young early career folks and students to have an opportunity to meet with those that are perhaps further along in their career trajectories and so what we'd like to do is again we don't have a lot of time so it's going to be a sort of but an opportunity to actually meet somebody also I would like to encourage you if you are a student and are not registered for the conference to make sure you sign in if you are so able would like to gather in this again to meet someone of every color so we've got a Fred is a client