 Live from Mountain View, California, it's The Cube at OpenStack Silicon Valley, brought to you by headline sponsor, Mirantis. Here are your hosts, John Furrier and Jeff Frick. Okay, welcome back everyone. We are live in Silicon Valley, the hotbed of innovation where OpenStack is having OpenStack SV. This is The Cube, our flagship program. We go out to the events, extract the scenes from the noise. And our next two guests are HP's Mark Interante, Senior Vice President of Engineering for HP Cloud and Monty Taylor, Distinguished Technologist on the board of OpenStack. Guys, welcome, Monty, welcome back, Mark. Welcome to The Cube. It's good to be here. Love HP's Mojo, I've been watching the cloud evolve ever since Viri Singh had this little skunkworks back in the day when OpenStack was in the infancy stage and then SAR came in. And then just the staffing, the overall build out has been pretty impressive. You guys are definitely all in, I can say, independently been watching you guys. And then today with Martin here as the CEO of Eucalyptus officially, he hasn't really kind of gotten there yet with the closing. It's all corporate kind of disclosure, but he's there. Martin Fink kicked it off, CTO. The chops are pretty heavy, Monty. We were on earlier last in Atlanta. HP's got some serious chops in open source. Mark, talk about that. I mean, is that just like by design, by accident? Are you adding more people? Give us the inside scoop. I'll go back for two seconds. I mean, go back to UNIX, go back to Linux. This is a continuation of the journey. And I think HP is completely all in open source and open stack. When I looked at where HP's gone just in the last couple of years by the number of developers, the number of PTLs, the impressive team that we built out, it was a reason I joined just a couple of months ago. And I'm excited about all the work we're doing and focusing on open source and not a closed source model for contribution. So Monty, we had some tweets earlier on the crowd, Chef Evo saying, big company, full service, small company, do it yourself. Is that how you see, I see? I'm sure you're going to say no, but I mean, there are guys out there who are looking at us saying, oh my God, I'm not going to be playing in the stack. How do I dance around the stack? So the ecosystem's certainly changing and it's not shrinking, that's for sure. Oh, it's certainly not shrinking. No, I mean, we're getting more and more players. I forget, I'm always finding out about a new company that's involved or a new product or service. So on the one hand, we've got HP. We can sell you pretty much everything you want, the entire stack. If you need that kind of valet service, if you need us to take care of you all the way across the board, we can do that. But that doesn't mean that we're closing out the ecosystem or the opportunities for folks. I mean, this is Silicon Valley. People spend up small companies to compete with the big giants all the time. And that's how Cloud enables that. Exactly, Cloud enables that. And you see that in the OpenStack ecosystem, people building things to run in OpenStack, adjacent OpenStack, on OpenStack. And that means that those people can be partners for HP. They don't have to just be competitors. Mark, talk about the engineering ethos at HP Cloud. I'll see, it's not a new engineering company. I've worked at HP for nine years. People who watch regularly know I kind of always pimp that around back in the 80s, 90s, when, you know, in my youth, it's an engineering culture. And is it still an engineering culture? People say, oh, HP, you know, this sideways. I mean, that's kind of the buzz, unfortunately, with the turnaround plan. But share some insight into the engineering vision and capabilities there. So actually, I was at HP in the 90s also. I spent four years at HP and was actually working in both laser prep, laser jet products and inkjet products. In Boise? I was actually in Palo Alto, I was in corporate. But I was out there in Boise myself. So one of the reasons I wanted to come back to HP beyond the OpenStack is I believe in engineering companies and in engineering ethos. Look, I'm an engineer from high school. I've been doing this all my life. And working for an organization which values engineers engineering, values that technological contributions and invention is really something that HP is getting more and more back into. There's a period where it wasn't as strong. But it is huge reinvestment in that area right now, bringing in people like Monty Dozen's of other technologists at OpenStack. And R&D too is always a big R&D. Talk about the R&D. What's going on on the R&D side around the cloud? I mean, I was going to say on the last point, you look at things like the machine that's come out of labs, right? These aren't things that are, a product manager said, hey, go build me for next quarter the machine. Of course not. This is a long-term, long-range project that has the potential to fundamentally change everything we're doing. This stuff doesn't happen overnight. Like you've got to have a commitment and you've got to invest in the engineering resources to actually do like pure R&D like that. And so few companies anymore have those sorts of projects going on. So I think it's super exciting. It goes from pure R&D at the chip level to fiber, to systems integration and systems engineering. And that's an area where I think HP is very uniquely set to be able to have that full-scale, large systems engineering front. You know, it's always, I said in the queue, I think a couple of HP discovers ago, you know, when Meg was talking about a turnaround plan, I said, hey, you know, Dave Vellante, my co-host is actually in New Orleans for another event here, but you can, I'm obviously my co-host right now. The turnarounds, what better time to do a turnaround when you have one of the most amazing inflection points of all theaters of innovation exploding with opportunity. You know, cloud mobile, social, conversion infrastructure, big data, internet of things, the data center. I mean, it really is kind of an amazing time. So, I mean, you better be in the right position when the wind shifts, right? So I got to ask you, so, you know, HP has all the elements. The tool chest is there. Is the issue hurting the cats internally? Like let's take NFV for instance, right? I mean, you guys are doing a ton of work. I know Bethany Mayer's got this tailcode project or if she had this tailcode project going on, you have the network division over there. So like, how do you get those assets? I mean, is Meg sitting there saying, give them the assets? Mark, do you have like the carte blanche to get what you want, go into the system and get the tools you need? Well, I think one of the reasons that we report into Martin or Martine, who reports into the CEO, is that a cloud is, it's really an interesting beast. We sit at the intersection of IT, networking, and then many of the core products, like servers and storage. I have meetings and teaming meetings about every week with somebody in one of these divisions about how we're going to get, accelerate our work in neutron and networking. How we're going to get storage to work better and different for our cloud. It's important to have access at that level, and we do, we've opened our policy with all these leaders. All right, so describe what all in means, okay? Obviously I mentioned earlier the personnel and the commitment to talent, obviously it's there. You guys are a testament that we've seen evidence of that. Lines of code, contribution and overall, engineers working on Obostat is up if not pushing number one. Certainly you're depending on how you define code. You're right with Red Hat, neck and neck. You're on the board. Okay, what else? I mean, am I missing anything? It's a constant push, like because this is cloud. Things change every minute. There's always something new. So being all in isn't just about who we hired yesterday. It's about who we're going to hire tomorrow. It's not about what projects we worked on yesterday. It's about what we're going to work on tomorrow, what we're going to work on in six months. So things like NFV are actually really interesting, an interesting beast there, right? Because on the one hand NFV is the things that the telcos need to actually deliver NFV. Those are all, most of those things are actually things that you can really characterize also as just making the core OpenStack services better. Things that telcos' requirements for the capabilities of those are on one hand different and we have an entire division off running and tackling that hill. But this is also just the next step in the evolution of the work we're already doing and compute a virtualization and things like that. Okay, so I want you guys to tell me the truth on OpenStack, and I mean the thing that you weren't telling the truth, but there's been some bickering. We're trying to sort out, every OpenStack show's great, you're like, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, something's going on. This is that, I don't like this, I want to see that. I mean, there's no doubt the growing pains are clear. I mean, it's growing, right? So, you know, you have some speed bumps, nothing fatal flaws of any kind. But there's been some criticism around OpenStack, hey, I need a product direction. You're starting to see the building blocks start to get laid out almost complete where that next level of innovation could then accelerate much faster. So the question is, do they need more product leadership? Should it be more free for all? How do you put this all together in the open, given that you guys have the engineering product management background and you're on the board? What should they be doing? Are you doing the right things? You know, we just had a conversation, just in the last couple of weeks. All right, how do we have more product thinking into when we start up a project? How do we make sure we're solving the problem and talking about the solution versus the features and the internals? How do we get the voice of what are the problems that customers might be having? And how do we get that into the engineering conversation? Right, that's exactly right. And one of the other issues that comes up here is that we always have to deal with an OpenStack, whether it's engineering or this, which I think is a good new challenge for us to take on, is how do we make sure that we have an inclusive environment where all of the different companies who have different product needs and those sorts of things, which are all describing real customer interactions and real user needs, how do we allow for that conversation to happen without it becoming a complete free-for-all that you can't make any sense of? We've kind of figured this out on the engineering side. We've got 2,000 developers from 300 different companies and we're turning out software. So that's a solved that. So the next question is, how do we organize so that we can take input from many disparate sources, make sure that we're getting that to clarity and then helping that to make the engineering decisions? There's no doubt in the weeds, the features. I've been, initially, years ago, I was like, I hope that OpenStack wouldn't be like a marketing program. You guys, OpenStack clearly said, no, we're going to go do good work. They did, and we saw the deployments. You won the marketing war. OpenStack has now the leading horse in all this. We had one day, Sarah, in CrowdChat saying, I want to just get your comment to this just for discussion. I think that, on this mark, win the marketing war. I think that is a problem. Reality does not match the marketing promise and we will see a series of high-profile failures in implementation. It's going to be brutal in 2015. So, obviously his sentiment is, okay, if you over-hype, you fall short, you over-promise on to deliver, kind of a message. Do you think, I mean, I probably don't think it's going to be brutal, but implementation now is now the benchmark now. Now we're in that outcome conversation, so. I think we've been in the outcome conversation for already over a year now. I think we've got real deployments at scale, tens of thousands of cores. I think we're going to see, we may see some people over-reach. Look, I think that's why the POCs, proofs of concept that people are doing, are getting pretty substantial. People are doing multi-rack proofs of concept. I mean, these are very substantial pre-deployments and people are bringing this into big companies, whether they're media companies or tech companies like Miyahu and eBay, are doing substantial deployments this year. Yeah, I think that's a little bit brutal. Obviously, it's an anonymous Twitter handle, but we don't know who the person is, but I think they're bringing up the whole point and this is where the reality hits the road. This is where the investment pays off. Well, there's also, there's a human aspect, too, in that anything, OpenSec sits in an interesting space in terms of software, because it's a very infrequent in our past where you've had software aimed at running 100,000 servers, like across 100,000 servers, and that that's something that you're not going to build in how special purpose for one thing, but that you're going to redistribute that to somebody else and expect to be able to install a data center worth of computers with redistributable software. That's a huge reach for the industry. It's never happened before. And so, yeah, some people are going to have problems with it, but that's because it's never going to be me with a USB stick and I get a data center out the other side. There's always going to be teams of people on the ground, right? Maybe in the future, my data center might be on a USB. Maybe my data center might be on a USB. Martin Mikos, okay, the eucalyptus. Did that come out of left field? What did you guys know about it? What was going on there? Were you surprised? Are you happy? What's the sentiment? I mean, as your new boss next day, I'm really happy. I'm excited. I've known him on and off for a period of years. We're excited to have him on board and bringing the kind of product thinking and kind of open source thinking into the organization is really... It's an instant engineering organization is what it is. You've got Santa Barbara little place to go visit now. Not a bad, my son goes to UCSB down there and it's a great place. It's a real shame. I got to take trips to Santa Barbara, visit some people, you know, have some meetings. I'm really, that's a real negative, I'm sure. I'll be there this week. I'm looking forward to seeing those folks. Guys, HP's all in. Great to have you on theCUBE. I want you to get the final word. Each of you to answer the following question to close out the segment. What is the most amazing thing that you've seen in OpenStack from your perspective that either you've done and or have been involved in is the most amazing thing? For me it's quite honestly the people in the interaction to see, you know, in Atlanta and Hong Kong before that and all of the other things. When we pull in thousands of people together into the room, they actually work together and they're working for completely different companies. But they actually come together and work on a common goal and deliver software without anybody beating them with sticks or anything like that is absolutely, it amazes me every single time I see it. You know, I remember four years ago in Austin and San Antonio in the first summits we had and how we thought, you know, oh, there's 100 people here. This is very impressive. We need a larger room now and our dreams were like, let's get up to 300 or 400 people and you know, we're almost, you know, five or seven times that size and so that's been the most impressive thing and just how much community partnership there is while, you know, we're competing in the marketplace but look, you meet these folks and you work with them and there's also alumni from all kinds of our companies here. Yeah, so I got to ask you, Mark, one more question because the engineering manager, shipping code is the benchmark, right? You mentioned shipping code. That really kind of brings people together. In an open source community like this, what's it like? I mean, certainly it's not, it's somewhat new. It's only how many generations? It's not certainly 10 years old, it's older than that but it's changing every day. There's more and more open source every month, every year the numbers are higher, more funding, companies getting funded with open source. How is shipping code in the open different and what's different in open stack if you can compare and contrast? I think shipping code in the open is, one, it's a bit more, wow, everybody's looking at my stuff. Everybody's looking at what the code I wrote, our teams wrote, we're getting instant feedback. So it's a little like working at one of the big internet companies when you push to production at Facebook or Google and they're using your stuff, millions of people using it today. In open source, people are using it within hours. They're downloading, giving you feedback. It's on IRC, it's on Twitter. So the feedback is much more immediate and I think the other thing is we get better at writing code because the best way to get good at writing code is to read somebody else's code and to listen to their feedback and criticism and advice on how to make it better. I think we're all becoming better developers and engineers through this process. It's a social dynamic, if you know everyone's watching then it's like, wow, I better be good. I better not suck. I hate to say it but that's in mindset, that's deep down going on. And your ego gets, you lower your ego, you're like, you put out an idea and people help you make the crucible of making that idea better and then it's like, collectively our idea is now implemented versus it was all my idea for the month and I wrote all that code myself. That's why I love to connect to social web right now because you have relationships now that are instant. You can touch people anywhere with code, share with them. Changing the game, HP, great to see you guys all in. Congratulations, great to see Martin on the queue earlier and all the success. We'll keep watching, of course, we'll be at HP Barcelona as well and we'll pick it up there. It's theCUBE, live in Silicon Valley for OpenStack SV, an event sandwiched in between, kind of an ad hoc flash mob and it's in between Atlanta and Paris, packed house, I mean it's jamming here to the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. We'll be right back after this short break. Thanks.