 Good morning everybody. We really have a terrific program today. I'm Bonnie Glazer. I'm a senior advisor for Asia at CSIS. And of course I do a great deal of work on Asian security writ large, but one of the things that I really enjoy focusing on is Taiwan. And so I'm very pleased that you're all here today to hear the remarks of both of congressman Matt Salmon and tech representative and ambassador Shen Lushun. And I will also summarize the report which we are rolling out today on Taiwan's participation in the international community and you should all have a copy of that. So we will have time for a Q&A both with congressman Salmon and with ambassador Shen. We will start with the congressman because he has a hard end time. He has to get back to the Hill. So let me start by introducing briefly congressman Matt Salmon who all of you know represents the people of Arizona's fifth congressional district and has recently become the chairman of the subcommittee on the Asia-Pacific. Also serves in the House Committee on Foreign Affairs and the House Committee on Education and the Workforce. In terms of his own personal background, many of you may know that congressman Salmon in his youth served a mission for his church in southern Taiwan from 1977 to 1979 and we were just chatting about how the congressman left Taiwan in January 1979 and I arrived as a student there in February 1979. So unfortunately we didn't overlap. He traveled extensively around the island during his stay and I think undoubtedly has a very keen appreciation for Taiwan including the accomplishments of its people and their longing to be a more active participant in the international community. Congressman Salmon was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 1994. He served three terms and then after a hiatus of 12 years constituents re-elected him to serve again in the House. Congressman Salmon has led multiple U.S. delegations to China and Taiwan and he is the only member of Congress who is fluent in Mandarin. Yesterday Congressman Salmon chaired a subcommittee hearing on opportunities and challenges facing the U.S. in the Asia-Pacific and his remarks at the hearing clearly demonstrate his commitment to promoting American interests in the Asia-Pacific and I think we can all agree that under Congressman Salmon's leadership the subcommittee on Asia is going to make very important contributions to U.S. policy and interests going forward. So with that please join me in welcoming Congressman Salmon. Thank you very much. It's really an honor to be here today and Ambassador, it's great to see you again. Welcome back to Washington DC. I know it's been about a year now since you came back but to me it's like Groundhog Day because when I first came he was here and then he went to Geneva and he's been in several different places but it's wonderful. It's actually a really good thing because I think you represent Taiwan extremely well and I want you to know that my support for Taiwan is undying and I think that we'll be able to do some good things in the next couple of years. I fully expect that I'll be in this job for quite some time probably until I get it right and we'll have lots of opportunities to do great things and Bonnie Glaser thank you so much for this opportunity. It's a real honor. I'm sure you and I looked a lot different in 1979. Absolutely. In fact my deputy chief of staff just said when you were mentioning that I was there from 1977 to 1979 that I'm really old and so thank you for that. Actually in China the older you are the wiser you are at least that's the so hopefully I'm wiser I don't know that my wife would agree with that she says I'm a pretty wise guy but I'm really excited to be the chairman of the Asia and Pacific subcommittee. It's been something that I've been interested in ever since I lived in Taiwan and I think that given the fact that I actually have been to the region numerous times I lived in Taiwan for two years and I've been to China over 40 times and spent a lot of time working there been to India five or six times and spent a lot of time working there South Korea Japan and I think it's probably the first time in American history that we've had a chairman of that subcommittee that actually speaks Mandarin so I think maybe that's a good thing too Huxiang Liaojie Mutual understanding to me is a very important thing and so I think that it will be a very positive thing you know when I first was called by my church to go to Taiwan I was 19 years old and not real world wise I didn't even know where Taiwan was to be honest with you I knew that they spoke a different language but I hadn't taken any foreign language in high school and so when I first was sent to the language training mission in Provo, Utah to learn Chinese we got there on a Wednesday and then by Sunday we were forbidden to speak in English anymore we had to speak in Chinese we called that Silent Sunday I mentioned a lot of pointy and grunting but it was a great experience for me we were studying the Chinese language 24-7 and literally I mean we were probably sleeping six hours studying every day in fact we had our kuchungs strapped to our hip and we were studying them even when we were in the lunch line and it was a great experience for me when I got to Taiwan I was so thankful to get out of that language training mission and be somewhere where we could actually interact with with the people of Taiwan and they were so wonderful to me in fact it was like having a home away from home a family in another place in fact I remember getting kind of sick when I was there and the people of Taiwan just adopted me like one of their own sons and I'll never forget that I was there during the time that Jimmy Carter normalized relations with China and sever diplomatic ties with Taiwan and it was a really sad day for me it was very hard to take and since that time the United States has adopted a one China policy but you know I said in the hearing yesterday and I'll say it again and I hope some of the people from Beijing are listening if you really want a peaceful reunification with Taiwan someday then you have to mean what you say about one China, two systems with Hong Kong so far it hasn't really materialized and that's why these protests have occurred in Hong Kong because of Beijing's meddling in the whole democratic process in Hong Kong especially in the selection of a CEO and if they really want to show the world that they mean what they say about one China, two systems then they'll actually practice what they preach and they'll really have one China, two systems I'm really pleased with the things that President Ma has done to try to build a unity between China and Taiwan and de-escalate some of the tensions that have occurred in the Taiwan Strait I had opportunity in my past experience in Congress to meet with then President Jiang Zemin and every time we talked about the cross-strait relations it was kind of like a dentist drilling on somebody's teeth without novocaine he'd get real exercised about it and, you know, assert how it was part of China and to me, I think the United States can still operate under a one China policy but yet pursue it in a smart way it doesn't make any sense right now the ambiguous sovereignty status which is leading to its exclusion from the vast majority of international organizations Taiwan is an extremely important partner of the United States and I believe that we need to reiterate time and time again the Taiwan Relations Act and our support for that as a people, as a Congress as a government and I also believe that the support for Taiwan in the international community as well as the supply of defensive military supplies needs to be a continued priority for the United States Taiwan's marginalization in international organizations leaves a significant hole in the security of the Asia Pacific region I think we all understand that it also leaves Taiwan's 23 million people vulnerable Taiwan has the means and the desire and the capacity to serve as a responsible global stakeholder and President Ma, he's facing I know some important political struggles at home but he should be commended for his efforts to help bring security to the region specifically his efforts to peacefully resolve regional disputes and they should serve as an example to the entire Asia region and I've mentioned that several times in past hearings and I will continue to advocate listening to President Ma and his desire for a peace initiative and some talks among some of the parties that are concerned about China's aggression in the east and south China sea and I think that he has done a marvelous job continuing to advocate for the following of international law continued dialogue and the sharing of natural resources to work toward these peaceful relations and Taiwan should also be afforded the benefit though from international security bodies and share its reservoir of knowledge and expertise for common good that's just common sense we live in such a dangerous world we limit our abilities to be able to cooperate with one government to another to eventually stomp out and eradicate the threat of terrorism and just like when we talk about solving problems that two heads are better than one we need everybody at the table we need everybody at the table and there is no good reason that Taiwan should be excluded from many of these international bodies and I think that the United States while we say we support that I think we need to belly up to the bar I think we need to do more than just say that and we need to lobby some of these other governments to adopt our position and use the political capital that we have with those nations to vote with us to make sure that these things ultimately happen it's just common sense and I know that China is incredibly concerned about what's happening with North Korea I know that they're incredibly concerned about the extremist radical growth of these terrorist groups and these radical Muslim groups and so I think that it's just we're at the point right now where we need to stop walking on eggshells and we need to stop trying to I don't know, placate or appease China's desire to try to keep its thumb on Taiwan it just isn't good sense and it's not good policy not for Taiwan, not for China, not for the world and I'm going to be a staunch advocate of doing the right thing the smart thing and the best thing and I really appreciate the opportunity to be here today thank you very much thank you congressman and thank you for your support your service to our nation of course and your support for Taiwan so I don't want to dominate the conversation because I know there are many questions that are from the audience but I do want to at least start out asking you one question and the focus of our report really is on Taiwan's security and the need to integrate Taiwan into security mechanisms but of course economics and security are just inextricably linked very much so and one of the issues that I know is on the minds of president Ma and interestingly really is an area of consensus between the opposition the DPP and the Guomindang is the desire to become more integrated economically into the region and globally and particularly to join if possible if the TPP becomes a reality which I think we would share the view that we hope that it will be so what do you think are the prospects assuming that we have a TPP agreement later this year for Taiwan to join well I think it's just common sense you know China might want to pretend otherwise but Taiwan is the biggest investor in China's economy and I think that it just makes sense to have all hands on deck Taiwan is a big importer of US products and services and it's a big exporter to the United States and it just makes sense and so while I'm a big advocate of TPP I think that ultimately whether it's TPP or other economic opportunities to leave Taiwan out is just flat out dumb I would agree if you look out maybe 10 years where do you expect to see Taiwan in relationship to the mainland and the United States do you think that we will still see the status quo or do you think we will see radical change I would have really hoped that with China's entry into the WTO and the passage of PNTR in fact I said this back then I hoped I was a prophet I really guess I wasn't but I had said at the time that I believed that since China had kind of opened the genies bottle by letting out the economy and economic freedom of sorts that political reform wasn't far behind it's just a natural segue and the political reform in China has been slowed and non-existent and I'm really disappointed I think it will ultimately be to their detriment as long as they continue to try to play a heavy hand with Hong Kong which I had hoped would be different I was there for the Hong Kong handover ceremony met with some of the dissidents like Martin Lee and really hoped that China would practice a more hands-off approach to Hong Kong than they have hoped and prayed that some of the human rights issues in China would have been better than they would now I place right now there is a detente of sorts between Taiwan and China but I give almost all the credit to President Ma I don't think China has really done much of anything to improve those relations it's Taiwan that's made almost all the efforts at improving that relationship and I think that China has been pushing the envelope time and time again with its aggression with the Spratlys and other issues in the South China Sea and the East China Sea and I truly do believe that if they don't listen to some of these calls for reasonable dialogue like President Ma has issued the world is going to start turning against them and they need to realize that that their economy I know they don't care as much about political reform as they do about their economic prospects but if they continue to put the lid on any kind of political reform and working with Taiwan I think the world of public opinion is going to move against them and I think it's in their best economic interest to sit down at the table and try to iron out some of these issues and be reasonable about allowing Taiwan to participate in the world process it's actually kind of childish I think well of course we have seen some progress in terms of Taiwan expanding its participation in the international community not enough not even close to enough and the risks are growing and we will talk about that more a little bit later so let me open up the floor now to questions from the audience please identify yourself your affiliation question relatively short because we only have about 20 minutes over here wait for the microphone please thank you very much congressman I'm Roy McCall an independent analyst question what sort of support and resistance are you finding in congress for your position congressman and do you sense any change in receptivity based on your more recent trips to China thank you no I think it's like the elephant in the room when you go to China they don't really even want to talk about it because it's kind of right now on ice the relationship with them and I just don't even think they want to acknowledge it or address it so I don't think I don't think that it's necessarily any better and as far as the congress is concerned I think that it's like so many things it just needs a little push I think the support is there and we've reiterated from time to time our commitment to the Taiwan Relations Act as a congress I think that the support for Taiwan both among republicans and democrats is pretty solid and the wariness of China is even with a free trader like me I'm very much a free trader but I'm still very wary about China's lack of improvement in so many areas that we care about so I think that all it takes is a catalyst and I intend to be that catalyst I think the support is there just need a strong voice to start talking about it and one of the issues is that we're going to invest a no brainer and something we're going to probably be taking some movement on is Taiwan's access and entry with Interpol that's just a no brainer and I think if we move with some of the easy ones the other ones will start falling in line and I think China's going to have to realize that this obstinance about Taiwan is going to have to see some movement where it's going to hurt them and it's going to hurt them economically and as you said the first time a major terrorist activity happens in China let's say and they realize because they didn't have it all hands on deck approach including Taiwan and some of these international bodies and being able to receive information from other countries they're going to regret the fact that they didn't allow all hands on deck this is not a time to be playing our parochial games right now this is a time for all hands on deck this is a serious global issue and we need to put our petty self-interest behind us for the interests of once and for all prevailing on this issue and the security risks to Taiwan are great greater than what they see as the political risks absolutely and I think that's one of those things that we just need to muscle through okay next question John Zan John Zan with CTI TV of Taiwan congressman you were talking about providing defensive weapons to Taiwan as a major US priority but there hasn't been any big ticket item for a while do you expect before President Obama leaves office there will be another big arms sales announcement how do you in congress support this push particularly Taiwan plans to do its own indigenous submarine program in what way can the United States support in what way can US congress support thank you well one thing that I'm going to answer it in a different way I don't see the big pivot to Asia that the president said was going to happen I don't see it having having happened and so I don't know that that kind of support for military sales will come from the administration I think that it's going to have to be prodded by congress like we've done before and I think that kind of support is pretty strong in congress on both sides of the aisle just like it's been for iron dome for Israel I think that kind of support is very very strong but I remember the last time I was in China with congressman Royce the chairman of the full committee and we were talking about the nuclear issue in North Korea and the comment was made if China doesn't start weighing in more heavily with its tremendous influence over North Korea on this issue then how can we continue to abate the possibility of a nuclear armed Taiwan or a nuclear arm Japan or a nuclear armed South Korea and I think that maybe that finally caught their ears I think that the but I do think that the support for military sales substantial items to Taiwan is there and I don't think that it will be driven by the administration I think that's something we're going to have to get the congress to weigh in a little bit more forcefully on Another question Mr. Slocum wait for the microphone please Congressman thank you for your presentation and your service I have a question about the politics in Taiwan what do you think the effect would be if the DPP were to win the next election relations between the United States and Taiwan were probably as rocky as they've been for a long long time during the previous DPP administration It's a very interesting question and I asked that exact same question yesterday to our panel when we had our hearing yesterday and I didn't really get a satisfactory answer to my question but you remember when the DPP was in control before and it was the relationship was on pins and needles every day when Chen Sui-bin was the president of Taiwan and I went over to Taiwan and I made a comment to him yes we do have the Taiwan Relations Act and yes we are strong allies of Taiwan and have said that if there's an unprovoked attack we'll be there to defend Taiwan but you're acting like the little boy on the playground that goes around taunting the bully because your big brother is standing behind you and that's not responsible and I'm concerned about that I really am if they get back to you know the DPP controlling the government in Taiwan and get back to inflammatory type comments on a weekly basis it will strain the relationship and it will put its back in a situation I think of great difficulty and I'm not trying to weigh in to who Taiwan should elect in the next election but I'm talking the matter of fact the last time that the DPP was in control it did cause some serious conflict in the three way relationship between the United States Taiwan and China and I think that President Ma I meant what I said I think he's to be commended I know he's taking a lot of political hits and pressure from the constituency there in Taiwan but he's in a very difficult situation and I I mean what I said I think he has handled things in a very statesman like way and I hope the people of Taiwan recognize that he my feeling about President Ma I've spoken with him on the phone his commitment to Taiwan is very strong and his commitment to protecting the people of Taiwan is very strong and he's trying to thread that needle and I hope the Taiwan people see that as not capitulation we're appeasement to China but coexisting in a very difficult time and that's my feeling Nadia Chao wait for the microphone please Hi Congressman Nadia Chao I have a question if there's a one international body that you think Taiwan can join or should which one that will be at this moment the Congress will fully support and from your recent trip to China a lot of people are talking about Xi Jinping's China Dream what's your assessment about that dream some people in this town see that a dream will be competitive to US dreams or even go to the different direction what's your take on that thanks could you repeat the last part of the question again about Xi Jinping's China Dream you know when during your recent trip President Xi Jinping's China Dream I'm just asking from your imagination of the Chinese nation yeah yeah yeah China look I'm going to ask the last question first my dream is that there is one China one day and that the government is modeled after Taiwan's government that it's a democratic process I know that you know my hope is that the people of China will ultimately rise up politically and demand the kind of things that come with economic freedom and that's personal freedoms the ability to worship according to the dictates of their own conscience the ability to criticize their government without fear of imprisonment the ability for the press to be able to report freely what's going on in the country without fear of reprisal so that's my dream I think a one China would be great as long as it's a democracy and the people have the ability to select their leaders and not the Communist Party so you know I think that the dream for one China under the current circumstances with Beijing keeping its thumb on everybody to me is a pipe dream and not something I support at all I think that Hong Kong should truly be able to select who their leaders are and not Beijing and I think that I think that that ultimately the Chinese people would love to see that includes Taiwan and Hong Kong and China they'd love to see a peaceful reunification but not under Beijing's terms and the other question what body do I think that would be the easiest I think I mentioned that I think from a security standpoint we need to look at those organizations first and foremost that allow Taiwan to do a better job protecting its its population and I think Interpol would be probably my first choice because I think that one's really a no brainer you know it's not well known that even though Taiwan lost its seat in the UN in 1971 was actually part of Interpol until 1984 I didn't know that I didn't remember that and I learned in doing the research for this report that it had had access to the so even in 79 it continued for a few years well that's just common sense and to not allow that kind of dissemination of information to all of our law enforcement people is actually just quite ridiculous Taiwan has to develop workarounds and the relationship with the United States of course is indispensable in that regard as we share information because we have of course have access to the Interpol database that we then help Taiwan vet the lists of potential suspected persons the problem with that is our agencies don't even communicate adequately among themselves much less with Taiwan very true another question Mike Fonte Mike Fonte I'm the director of the DPP's office here in Washington thanks again Mr. Salmon for your presentation I beat you to Taiwan by 10 years but I think both of us saw during those days the repression that took place under martial law and I'm sure you're like me can't believe the democracy that has developed in Taiwan I couldn't believe that it happened by 1991 but I think I want to underscore that it is a democracy that the people of Taiwan have the right to keep all their options open whatever they may be and also I would add that Dr. Tsai Ing-wen who will be the DPP candidate has said very clearly I'm not Chen Sui Ben I'm not Ma Ying Yu I'm Tsai Ing-wen so I think it's important myself that the United States keep itself neutral in this next election round I didn't do so last time I wonder what your thoughts are on that I agree I think the United States has to keep neutral but I think that on principles of cooperation between Taiwan and China we can't speak about those principles we should never weigh into an election and allow the Taiwan people to select the folks that they believe is most appropriate and you're right when I lived in Taiwan there wasn't a lot of freedom of expression at that point in time that's a fact and there has been amazing progress in the whole democratic process in Taiwan at times it's been messy but that's the way it was in our country too very difficult and we had a lot of growing pains dealing with our own democracy but you're completely right and I hope nobody misconstrues my comments I wasn't trying to do a campaign commercial I just think President Ma has had a very difficult road to hoe so to speak and I think that he's done a pretty marvelous job accommodating that but it wasn't meant to be a campaign commercial for him I like him I think he's doing a good job but I'm not going to be putting myself on any bumper stickers for him I think that you're right the people of Taiwan need to make that decision and then in the United States we will work with whoever they select as their leaders and make the best out of it absolutely of course President Ma has already served his two terms so he won't be running for reelection exactly and that's my point I'm not going to advocate that the Taiwan people select one party or another but I am going to say that whoever wins needs to be responsible in their rhetoric because the Taiwan relationship is pretty fragile and we certainly don't want to provoke a conflict we don't want to allow despots unfettered you know ability to you know push people around push Taiwan around but by the same token we expect our allies to be responsible in their rhetoric and their actions yes we do very important well I think we've reached the end of our time it's been a terrific opportunity to have you here Congressman Sam and to talk with us about Taiwan we hope that we will see you again thank you very much and please join me in thanking Congressman Sam thank you we're now going to turn to the next part of our program I'm going to briefly summarize some of what I think of the highlights of our report and then we will turn to having Ambassador Shun talk with us about his own experiences so as I said 1971 Taiwan lost its seat in the UN and since then has been excluded from virtually every intergovernmental organization and many non-governmental organizations and the cost of Taiwan's exclusion is really very significant but is very rarely discussed so to highlight the implications of the marginalization of Taiwan from these international cooperation mechanisms particularly focused on security my colleague Jacqueline Vitello and I wrote this report to outline the problem and to talk about some of the potential solutions security challenges such as proliferation of nuclear weapons and cyber attacks and terrorism are inherently international they're not confined within a single country's borders strengthening security globally requires a seamless network by not including Taiwan and international regimes and organizations that seek to mitigate these global threats the world is left with a missing link in an otherwise integrated fight so the 23 million people on Taiwan are really more vulnerable than citizens elsewhere and Taiwan is constrained in its ability to contribute its experience and its knowledge to the international community so some examples from our report the congressman has just mentioned that Taiwan is excluded from interpol which of course is the international criminal police organization and this includes its system of alerts and its database of criminals so when there are mega events that are held in Taiwan for example in 2009 Gaoxiong hosted the world games there were participants from 103 countries and the list of athletes and journalists who applied to travel to Taiwan for the games really couldn't be easily and effectively vetted for possible criminals or terrorists through interpol and again as I said Taiwan had to work with its partners such as the United States so in doing research for this report CSIS took a delegation to Taiwan last summer and former Virginia Governor George Allen and his wife headed our delegation and we learned that there were several suspicious individuals who eventually were identified who had applied to participate in the games they were of course barred from entry into Taiwan through a very cumbersome process of investigation some of you may know in 2017 Taiwan is going to face a similar challenges it will be hosting the summer university games this is an international sporting event for university students and it's second only to the Olympics in terms of number of participants the expectation is there will be 9,000 athletes from over 170 countries who will attend and their safety is the top priority for all of us just this week there was a possible terrorist threat that was posted on twitter by a user that is believed to be connected to ISIS and it was apparently a photo of Taipei in ruins and the Taipei 101 tower in flames so this is a very realistic and urgent issue Taiwan security apparatus does heroic work to keep suspicious persons from entering the island but because they have to rely on bilateral cooperation arrangements with a very small number of countries obtaining information takes extra time and the information that is received is not always comprehensive Taiwan is the world's 10th largest cargo shipper but it is excluded from the international maritime organization which is a specialized organization of the UN that acts as the global authority for security safety and environmental performance in international shipping so Taiwan is unable to access first hand the latest regulatory framework and the best practices for the shipping industry in the realm of nuclear non-proliferation in the international sphere Taiwan is really essentially a black hole its government adheres to the best of its ability to the NPT the international treaty on non-proliferation of nuclear weapons but it faces really dire challenges in these efforts lack of coordination between authorities on Taiwan and international bodies have resulted in cases involving Taiwanese companies and Taiwan nationals caught smuggling WMD sensitive goods to states like Iran and North Korea in the past Taiwan has significant capabilities and the desire to participate in the proliferation security initiative which is an informal arrangement among countries that was initiated by the United States and it seeks to interdict WMD shipments and related goods to terrorists and countries of proliferation concern there was one very widely publicized incident in 2003 acting on US intelligence information Taiwan detained and confiscated 158 barrels of a chemical use to produce rocket fuel and this was from a North Korean vessel that was docked at a port in Taiwan yet Taiwan has been excluded from the nearly 50 interdiction exercises that have been held since PSI's creation and Beijing is unwilling to endorse the PSI statement of interdiction principles let me relate one final example Taiwan's military has significant capability to contribute to disaster relief and it is a provided assistance to many countries that experience natural disasters to Indonesia after the tsunami in 2004 to the Philippines after typhoons in 2009 and 2013 to Haiti after the earthquake in 2010 after the Malaysia airlines flight 370 went missing in March of 2014 Malaysian authorities requested that Taiwan join the search effort both Taiwan's Navy and Coast Guard dispatch vessels the Taiwan Air Force and two C-130 aircraft to search over the South China Sea however Taiwan was compelled to withdraw its ships and its aircraft after mainland China objected and Beijing not only insisted that Malaysia prohibit Taiwan from joining the search effort it also demanded that Taiwan's ships be denied refueling at Malaysia's ports and insisted that the sole citizen from Taiwan on the passenger list be referred to as Chinese indeed the made impediment to Taiwan becoming integrated into international security organizations and activities is mainland China and Beijing fears that absent an agreement with Taiwan forever enshrining the existence of one China the island could leverage its presence in international organizations to achieve independence this fear persists even though China's ever growing economic clout really makes it highly unlikely that nations would shift its diplomatic recognition from the PRC to Taiwan so in our report we argue that Beijing's obstruction of Taiwan's participation in international organizations is not just harmful to Taiwan and the international community ultimately as congressman salmon said it is also harmful to Chinese interest China faces growing threats to its own security such as terrorism and there's expanded interaction between the two sides of the strait which of course while beneficial to cross-strait stability has created new security risks there are now 616 flights per week between 10 airports in Taiwan and 54 airports in mainland China so the potential for criminals or terrorists to transit Taiwan en route to the mainland has grown by barring Taiwan from becoming a full member of the international community Beijing I believe won't be able to achieve its ultimate goal of winning over the hearts and minds of the people of Taiwan and achieving reunification the people of Taiwan view participation in IGOs and NGOs as essential to their security their interests and their dignity so our report lays out a series of recommendations of specific actions that should be taken to promote Taiwan's participation in international security efforts and thereby provide greater protection for the citizens of Taiwan and for the rest of the world there's a long list so I will just name a few as we have already highlighted Taiwan's access to interpol and particularly to its 24-7 database should be restored and its national police administration should be permitted to observe at annual interpol general assembly meetings second Taiwan should be permitted to contribute to global counter-terrorism efforts by joining the financial action task force and that's the primary body that sets the standards promotes effective implementation of measures for combating money laundering, terrorist financing and other threats to the integrity of the international financial system Taiwan should be granted in the International Civil Aviation Organization Council Taiwan participated in the assembly meeting in 2013 as a guest of the president of IKO but it should be permitted to participate in international and regional organizations as well as gain access to IKO's secure database and Taiwan should be permitted to participate in international and regional organizations involved in humanitarian assistance and disaster relief through the UN as well as through APEC so finally Taiwan of course must make its own full faith efforts to demonstrate that it is qualified for and deserves expanded participation in international organizations so Taiwan of course should actively publicize its advanced expertise and its willingness and desire to contribute to global security endeavors to intensify its diplomatic efforts to obtain support from other countries for an increased role in international security cooperation and finally Taiwan should work to convince the mainland that obstructing Taiwan's international goal international role excuse me is contrary to Chinese interests as well and we all need to help in that regard so I encourage you all to read the report and to think seriously about how we can promote Taiwan's participation in the international community focused on security institutions going forward so with that we are now going to turn to the final portion of our program today and it's a privilege to have with us Ambassador Shun whom as all of you know is representative of the Taipei economic and cultural representative office in the United States Ambassador Shun is both a distinguished diplomat and distinguished historian and while congressman was doing his mission in Taiwan from 1977 to 1979 Shun was studying at the University of Pennsylvania first obtaining his master's degree and then his PhD he was subsequently posted to the United States six times during his career and took up his current post in April of last year prior to that Ambassador Shun served as Taiwan's representative in the UK and before that as representative to the European Union and Belgium Ambassador Shun is presiding over as well as contributing to a golden period in US-Taiwan relations and he has earned deep respect and gratitude for his untiring service to Taiwan and to the US-Taiwan bilateral relationship and to the years that we have known each other and I won't say how many in the many conversations that I have had with Ambassador Shun I have always learned a great deal and so I very much look forward to his remarks today so please join me in welcoming Shun Lee Shun your turn I have known Barney ever since she was a little girl good morning and happy new year today is still the seventh of the year of the ship and keep in mind this is not the year 2015 according to the Chinese calendar this year is the year 4713 alright but I really don't know whether the Chinese history is that long this is according to Google of course this morning I first want to thank you Barney and Jack Crain for a very thorough professional report well done excuse me and my job this morning is to endorse to echo or to supplement your arguments with my own experience as a Taiwan diplomat for 33 years I think I can find a lot of interesting cases to support you support your arguments and let's start from this year we worry about Ebola we remember 12 years ago also the year of the ship 2003 remember there was an outbreak of a very weird epidemic disease in East Asia originated from China and Taiwan became maybe the second largest victim disease called SARS and then I remember Taiwan reported our first SARS case to WHO on March the 14th WHO did not respond until May the 5th for six weeks we stood alone without any external help we didn't know what to what happened we didn't know what to do now instead who came to us within that six weeks there was American CDC experts so very grateful to the Americans and right at this time I got an emergency transfer order to transfer me from here I was a deputy representative at that time to transfer me here to Geneva as a chief permission now in Geneva of course we tried to do something again we think Americans we think our diplomat allies we tried to get some access about you know how to deal with SARS WHO also in a way I think a lot of people are there very kind because of Taiwan they arranged not enough because we are not a member nor an observer and also the objection from Beijing so they arranged not in the formal agenda they arranged for a lunch briefing so that our health minister could speak to present Taiwan's case every victim sorry victim country could present his case but only about half an hour before the event started I got a phone call from some high level people of WHO saying that because the objection from Chinese ambassador, the PRC ambassador our health minister could not speak and then they even told me that Dr. Brunkland the DG director general of the WHO even had an argument with the PRC ambassador saying that you don't need to take Taiwanese minister as a minister you just take him as an expert but Chinese ambassador still saying no and then Dr. Brunkland said you just take him as a person without affiliation but the answer is still no so we couldn't speak for ourselves and WHO spoke for us again we think of Americans there was an assistant DG was American Dr. David Heyman presented the case for Taiwan and the but of course we my health minister and I we could sit in the audience to listen and this is very funny when the Chinese health, I think it's deputy minister of health spoke for their case and the power point statistics everything didn't refer themselves as China or PRC they only refer themselves as mainland China why? because they don't have Taiwan figures they don't have Hong Kong figures if they say this is Chinese figures if they say this is Chinese total or the PRC total cases it would not include Taiwan it didn't include Hong Kong so they could not speak for Taiwan even though they bought us from speaking but still they couldn't speak for us and this is in my 33 years of diplomatic career this is probably one of the very very rare occasions that they call themselves only mainland China as we call them rather than China or the People's Republic of China now again through American health we managed to pass a resolution to help not just Taiwan but everyone who needs help it's called SARS resolution but again the People's Republic tried to stop that because original language says that the DG the director general of WHO has to respond to the request from all countries including non-member states of course you know who is against that so later it takes very skillful diplomats to do that later we send American help we change the words into DG has to respond to all ALL all requests meaning the request from non-member states such as Taiwan because that Taiwan will be entitled to send our experts to a global SARS conference held in June 2003 if you remember and Taiwan as the second largest victim country we need to send our experts and yes we can get invitations now guess what happened so Bonnie I would supplement you with footnotes guess what happened invitation letters the People's Republic of China mission in Geneva demanded that invitation letters for the Taiwan experts be sent to them and then they would forward to Beijing and then in Beijing there's NGOs called China Chinese Medical Association Zhonghua Medical Association they put a covering letter on top of this WHO invitation saying that we are concerned about the health of our Taiwan compatriots so we secure this invitation for you my dear friends by the time we got the invitation letter it's already too late for us to go now so what we did the Taiwan diplomat didn't just sit there idly and wait I went directly to the WHO people I got electronic invitation for our experts so I was like with the email invitation we could go to Malaysia global SARS conference so it really takes a lot of efforts now after this talk let me tell you another interesting thing you know in WHO they have the website to show the world map of the communicable or epidemic diseases so usually as a country still having the disease the country will be painted red and this also caused a problem because of one China policy for example Malaria Taiwan already got rid of that as long as early 1960s we had a certificate but mainland China still had that so because mainland China sometimes with all being painted red so I went to complain saying this would be detrimental to our image or probably would hurt our tourism but the other side insisted so at one time I asked WHO people I said can you ask the other side if there is a disease only Taiwan has it and mainland China didn't have it would be painted all red because of Taiwan the answer came back saying that yes we still be willing to be painted all red because of one China policy and because our love for our Taiwan compatriots but later WHO made some adjustment because this is absurd and they also themselves said this is a little too scary if you painted all red so the map became areas map not go by countries go by areas certain areas still have big country maybe a few provinces having that but this is one map it has to go by the countries which is if you remember in 2005 the WHO passed a what they call IHR international health regulations which is something which combined altogether 11 old international health conventions into a new one so every country has to abide by that every country has to implement that and then sent to American health there was a clause about universality which means even non-member states such as Taiwan such as Holy See would have to abide by that because you know disease knows no political boundaries so and then there will be a very big electronic map in the lobby of the WHO building showing because they have one year to let you prepare yourselves if you are ready the country would have painted green if you are half ready will be yellow if you are still not ready at all will be red but Taiwan has been ready very early stage so we became green color mainland China is still not ready so they are red now this is cause of problem and later WHO didn't know what to do let me tell you what happened later later WHO shut down the whole map altogether so this shows to you you bar Taiwan from participation in international organization you heard not only yourself you heard all the countries in the world this really doesn't make sense this is a true again a true story now having said that let me also give you a few more observations Barney I think the word Taiwan being marginalized in a way is probably an understatement because there are a lot of occasions especially UN specialized agencies Taiwan has been totally excluded you know sometimes I usually say I was in Geneva because in Geneva every year there are more than 7,000 international organization meetings seminars assemblies sometimes I'm saying to my friends we don't even know what we have missed because we don't know the total picture and this is in a way dangerous even though we try very hard to get the papers to the documents to get the UN standards the UN new standards regulations and we can report it back to make Taiwan up to international standard to make Taiwan's domestic laws regulations synchronized with UN standards but sometimes we don't even know what we have missed so I will say marginal to be marginalized that's probably even an understatement in a way we've been totally excluded but we think it's two factors which makes the situation better one is the American health I would say sometimes when international organizations shut their doors to Taiwan but Americans try to open window for us this is why we very grateful you know a lot of occasions American health has shared in Geneva it's probably my best friend that time and this is why today when we are able and willing to reciprocate we also go through American channels now we worry about Ebola our channel to WHO is still not so good so instead of going to the WHO we rather donate our money last two months ago we donated one million dollars to the CDC foundation for Ebola control we donate because we know SARS we suffer from SARS a lot so we probably more experience we donated 100,000 sets of what they call PPE personal protective equipment we are in the process in cooperation with the United States in setting up a regional training center for Ebola control and prevention in Taiwan so we still have a very close cooperation with the United States in trying to get Taiwan we're not just standing here to receive the help from others from the outside world we try to reciprocate we try to donate, we try to pay back as well but we're still in America this is why I'm saying we're very grateful when the international organizations closed stores Americans try to open the window for us also we have the same I want to echo Congressman Selman we have the same President Ma's policy because under his policy the cross-strait relationship been improved to a certain extent that allows Taiwan to have more international space so finally we don't have to have a big fight in WHA now we become an observer of WHA and also a guest of Itale let me tell you in the old days we really waste everybody's time WHA only lasts for 8 days or 10 days the first day is very probably the most important but the first day is probably someone like me together with our diplomatic allies we can stage a filibuster and one time I apologized to Health Minister of the Kingdom Tonga because he said he had to fly for 25 hours to come to Geneva and Geneva's hotel is very expensive it would only stay for 2 days but his very first day with WHA the thing he heard is nothing but Taiwan, Taiwan, Taiwan so later we try to reach a compromise we try to save everybody's time when we had the debate we can maybe have a 2x2 or 3x3 to save time but another thing we could do is that we can call for a vote we know I learned from US Congress how you try to call not just a vote, not just a voice vote we call it a roll call vote now you try to imagine out of 193 member states a roll call you have to call twice how much time it would cost and then after the vote according to I think article 77 of the regulations every member is entitled to make a speech to explain his vote and then we have even though we only have some 25 diplomatic allies but you can imagine each and everyone making a long speech so it's very time consuming so we're very grateful to President Ma's policy and then today we don't have to do that we became, we already become a WHA observer and then the next point I have to say Taiwan is too big to ignore you manage your maritime I can tell you another organization for ILO International Labor Organization you know originally when I tried to approach them they were not interested in me at all they even told me that when they try to if they came to lunch with me they need first get a green light from other side's mission but later they came to me why because they said they send a delegation to southern Africa went to the kingdoms of Lesotho in Switzerland and found that the textile industry there almost dominated dominated by Taiwan investors so they saying they gave me the papers they saying we have new labor standards please apply them not just in Taiwan but also in your overseas investment countries I told them Taiwan is the 7th largest outbound investing country in the world you need to let us know about the new international labor standards so we can apply them not just in Taiwan but in our overseas investment countries this is in the good in the interest of everyone alright ok we talk about maritime as you said Taiwan is probably the 6th largest maritime country in the world evergreen is one of the largest stripping lines in the world so when the ILO adopted sea ferrars labor standard convention even though we couldn't be a signatory they gave me a copy and wanted us to apply them all our ships all our fishing boats and then last but not least let me just tell you again as I said Taiwan is too big to ignore you mentioned IKL let me tell you how big Taiwan when it comes to IKL matters the Taipei FIR flight information region FIR which is under our exclusive air traffic control it's not just as big as the size of island Taiwan you know the air space of Taiwan now all together as in the old days because a lot of the space over the public sea was assigned to us all together it's about 195,000 square kilometers including a very big piece of air space in the East China Sea so it's about six times the island the size of island of Taiwan how many international flights using Taipei FIR according to our figures every year about 1.4 million to 1.8 million control flights using Taipei FIR meaning they need our service they need our guidance among them there are 69 commercial airliners from 30 countries including united including British Airways some of them probably didn't land in Taiwan they fly over Taiwan so we hold such a big piece of international air space and that's our responsibility and then you mentioned now we have so many flights with mainland China every week we have 1,656 direct flights with mainland China we have about 400 direct flights with the United States among them 280 passenger flights 120 cargo flights so this is an international concern and this also involves PRC's own national interests so we all have to take a serious look at the problem if you cut Taiwan out of the system not only you create a problem for Taiwan you create a problem for yourself because there will be a big gap there and I dare say as a conclusion that the UN specialized agencies need Taiwan as much as we need them and only Taiwan can speak for itself on international occasions not the others but this morning I would love to have you two ladies speak for Taiwan we thank you thank you very much over here ambassador please sit down so that you can take a few questions thank you so much for your remarks it's just fascinating listening to your personal experiences in your career and I'm sure that virtually every diplomat from Taiwan regardless of where they serve would have such stories to tell because there are so many instances in which diplomats have had to work so hard in order to ensure that Taiwan citizens and security is protected and to try and make opportunities for Taiwan's enhanced participation in the international community so I would just like to ask one question before we open the floor give you an opportunity maybe to tell us what else you would like to see the United States do whether it be the executive branch or the Congress in order to promote this agenda and I believe the US is doing a great deal and I'm sure you would agree but because of the really slow even glacial progress in expanding Taiwan's international space so the question is really what more can be done I think the United States really has been doing a lot but the problems remain the United States is only one member so many international organizations need to line up if the United States could be of any further help we hope the United States can even help to line up what we call like-minded countries this of course is still very difficult but I think but basically I think it's our responsibility because basically this is our problem we should go out even more proactively to line up like-minded countries if I was in UK for example the British also very supportive of our ICAO participation and then the number one problem of course coming from Beijing so I think at this stage we hope we can let everybody know about the we can set aside a political or diplomatic disputes or whatever we concentrate on political issues for example when ICAO had an international meeting of 188 of the member states right after 9-11 Taiwan could not go there we do not even know how sick the cockpit doors should be whether the pilots should be allowed to bring carry firearms these are very technical things and then people saying that Beijing would tell you I can tell you in many cases when I was in Geneva there was a case about the poison baby corn from Thailand so the WHO informed Beijing asked Beijing to forward to us and it happened that Beijing that time enjoying their golden week Wang Jingzhou the first so they delayed it for 9 days so when we received it was too late but this is why we appreciate American health so finally also because the improvement of cross-strait relationship now we can be WHO observer also we now can have direct access communication exchange with the WHO what they call contact point in Geneva so we hope in every international organizations of this sort we could have this use a general term meaningful participation not just go there once a year sitting there listening to others but we can have day to day because it's very much needed as we always say in disease no political boundaries terrorists as you said they probably don't care just because you are not a UN member you probably make yourself an easier target so we have to keep all distancing and then given the close relationship you know people to people change between two sides Taiwan Strait the PRC interests also at say they probably would be number one country or place which would be affected if something happens Taiwan got a bit as congressman salmon said common sense common sense open the floor to questions again please identify yourself and please make sure you're asking a question thank you ambassador I'm Roy McCall independent analyst I'm just curious despite the PRC freeze on formal relations on a personal level do they ever come up to you and say you know I know I have to represent this position but on a personal level let's be friends or let's talk anything like going on in Geneva or you know I myself with them with the PRC diplomats no never no personal relationship at all they at one time I can tell you as I told you Bonnie my great-great-grandfather Viceroy was the top leader in Taiwan in 1874 1875 so in mainland China they published a pictorial about my great-great-grandfather and one time I seen the PRC diplomats through a reporter you know and one sent me the copy so I think that first they're very polite you know they said whether I would I could have received I said of course I'd be interested but they sent it to me on our national day so I sent a message back I said thank you for the national day thank you I also thank for the kindness but no personal contact you know we probably sometimes cross over we know off each other but I never said hello we never had any personal relationship hopefully that will change in the future other questions Miss Locke this may be an awkward first of all thank you ambassador this may be an awkward question but there is another international there's another entity whose access to international organizations is often a matter of controversy and that's the PLO is there any in some sense Taiwan's case is we should be able to participate as an observer sometimes the PLO makes the same argument are there other cases of entities that have de facto control Taiwan has much more control than the PLO does that seek international access to these international organizations and do you in any way communicate with them about trying to get a common position of access to these organizations I say if we compare our case to PLO it would only complicate the question to a very very large extent it probably does not serve anybody's interest and the yes we sometimes look at what the PLO been doing actually in WHO at WHOA every year there are only two political resolutions or issues one is Taiwan another is what they call the health rights of Palestinian people but those two cases are very different so we probably could not compare in a way they have they probably have a better position than Taiwan but we probably for us for our immediate interest our access to specialized agencies probably more important so I don't think these two cases are comparable thank you the question thank you so much Mr. Ambassador quick question for you ASEAN integration did you say three questions quick question I can ask three if you would like ASEAN integration is increasing this year a lot of people have noted that ASEAN may be a quasi-EU in Asia I'm wondering if the EU itself has access to a lot of these specialized organizations if Taiwan joins ASEAN wouldn't this be a middle ground for Taiwan to get access to these organizations if Taiwan was an ASEAN member and ASEAN is represented if integration continues as well I know there's a lot of ifs question but wouldn't this be a middle ground for Taiwan so its interests are also represented in Geneva in the Hague in Vienna etc thank you thank you I would say again that would only complicate the problems we would rather just because knocking at the UN's door is very difficult but I think we already managed to open some if not the doors but windows but if you go through another one they're probably even complicated situation I would rather just go directly to UN and UN specialized agencies after all as I said some organizations they couldn't ignore us IAEA for example they have to because they also come to Taiwan for the nuclear the inspection of our nuclear power plans things like that we already have a certain kind of de facto relationship so I don't think goes through another international organization would be a good idea other question yes over here hi my name is Alex Wang Wangyuan Rui I'm a Taiwanese junior studying international relations at GW here in Washington and I really love my country Taiwan and I actually just took a year off and I finished my military service in Taiwan and I have a question for you what would you urge Taiwanese young new generation to do to help preserve the Taiwanese identity this rich culture and traditional Chinese society what would you urge me to do in the future what a great question I think you should ask yourself the older generation are mentors please be seated and the maybe the most practical thing you can do is that after you got your degree go back to Taiwan join Taiwan's foreign service okay and then I would say I do believe that we have to continue this President Ma's policy even though I know he suffered from a lot of domestic criticism but no matter what happens no matter who wins the next election I think President Ma is very right in saying that mainland China is still our largest source of potential threat but on the other hand is also our biggest land of opportunities so what we doing now is we have to be very skillful try to manage this relationship try to minimize the threat but maximize opportunities not just to shut us out from saying that you are hostile you are not friendly we don't want to deal with you no so we have to try to minimize the threat and maximize opportunities and that takes a lot of it it takes courage it takes very skillful management so I would say as a Taiwanese young man my father's generation they fought a civil war between Mao Zedong and Chiang Kai-shek for almost 60 years and for our generation we thank President Ma and our other leaders that we managed to turn things around now I have at least a peaceful framework or prospect we turned the civil war into today's situation but still there are thousands there are so many problems but at least we hope we can pave for your generation to really settle the problems so it's really up to you what we can do is probably make sure for any resolution is a peaceful resolution but it's up to you to manage this relationship it's not easy but I think this is a question you have to ask yourself but you will ask me probably the most practical thing for you to do is you get your degree go back to Taiwan join foreign service and to exchange those problems yourself you are about the same age as my son and my advice to you would be the same as it is to him to find something you are passionate about there are thousands of ways to make a contribution to really make a difference and so you find something you're passionate about and work hard for your nation and for the rest of the world so I think we'll take one last question okay over here in front my name is Annie Chen I'm a senior at Georgetown University my question for Ambassador Shen is in order for the US to facilitate Taiwan's participation in NGOs and NGOs and in order for the PRC to agree and even participate in this facilitation process what are the areas in terms of sovereignty claims ideology values et cetera that the US PRC and Taiwan what are the areas that these three parts can come to agreements on and what are the differences that you think are for sure to remain and what are the differences that cannot be compromised and reconciled thank you wow that's a difficult question that's a very very difficult question it is I would have to say maybe we better start from functional areas it's probably easier than political questions this is why when we about 15-20 years ago when we tried to knock at the door of the UN we started with organizations such as WHO IKO UNFCCC rather than going directly to UNGA General Assembly but it really takes a lot of efforts as we have discussed but hopefully someday maybe your generation someday you would have once for all a across the board solution but I don't see that possible at this moment so what we can say we use this word for participation just because we know for Taiwan to become a member of the UN it's very difficult but first we need to have a de facto participation de facto access so that at least to make this world to make a UN system the UN regulations UN resolutions global without as Bonnie said missing link Taiwan is too big to ignore as I told you how big is our airspace our FIR I can give you a long list of how big we are and this is something that in the interest of not just Taiwan but the rest of the world also in the interest of PRC you cut Taiwan out it will be a loose, loose, loose situation but if you include Taiwan and set aside the political problem for the time being hopefully it will be a win-win situation that's what we are working for well that's a terrific note to end on and I'm very optimistic we will keep working together and with the rest of the international community please thank you all for coming and please join me in thanking Ambassador Suno