 Good evening and welcome to episode 397 of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host It's the Thursday edition of the Private Property Podcast. For the first time, welcome to the family. You're tuned into the only daily property show in South Africa catering to your property needs. Doesn't matter where you are in your property journey, whether you're looking to buy, to sell, to build, you're attending to your landlord, we're certainly here to make sure that you have the right resources, right tools to help you navigate your journey. And to all our regular viewers on Facebook, on Instagram, on YouTube, welcome to it. You know how we do. Every single weekday you and I have an appointment at 7 p.m. Then always in conversation with a property expert who helps us make better property decisions. And of course, some of the other great shows that you can look forward to on Private Property's social media pages every single weekday at 8 p.m. Includes the farming podcast that you can catch later on this evening at 8 p.m. with Umbali Nua Gong and she's also on your screens on Tuesdays at the same time. And every Mondays and Fridays, the child brings to the home shopper's show where he's always taking us through incredible properties that you can find on www.privateproperty.co.za. And on Wednesdays, it's the class that takes you through the first time home buyer's show. She's always in conversation with people who've not only walked that first time home buying journey, but going to grow their property portfolios from strength to strength. Then of course, there's also the great competition that you can look forward to on our Facebook page. And all you have to do to enter that great competition is to tell us and show that some of the great property and funds in such tools that you have learned while watching the show or even some of the other shows and we enter your name into a lucky draw where you stand a chance of walking away with 500 grand in cash every single weekday. And what you have to do in order to win that prize is if we call you name, you have to be watching the show live and claim the money while we are still on air. And in an event where the person doesn't do so, then the money rolls over into the money bag. Well, that's some of the great ways that you can stand a chance of walking away with that cash prize. Yesterday's winner unfortunately did not claim the money. So we have a roll over this evening. And so I do look forward to seeing who the lucky winner is going to be this evening. But you can look forward to that later on on the show. This evening, we're looking at whether the rental market, you know, can recover after 2021. So can the rental market recover after this year? Also, what do we mean by it, right? What do we mean by rental market recovery? I know that tenants have probably enjoyed the state of the rental market, certainly more than, you know, landlords, many landlords complaining about the inability to raise rentals and sometimes having to even decrease, you know, what they were previously charging. And we're also going to look at some of the ways that you can potentially spot a rental scam. We've seen quite a lot of that. It is the festive season. I know that many people who want to move in, you know, their properties in the new year are going to want to get the finances right this side of the year sort of in the new year. So you want to watch out for that as much as possible. And of course, some of the different trends that we've already spotted in the rental market this year. And to help us get a good sense of, you know, navigating the rental market in the year that was and certainly the year that we're preparing for and joined this evening by Cherie van Vidden, who is the head of residential rentals at Rencrop. Cherie, thank you so much for joining us this evening. Thank you, Zana. You know, Cherie, I think when we look at, you know, the rental market, we're talking about it recovering, you know, whether or not it's going to recover in 2021. Before we even look at whether or not it can, what do we mean when we talk about, you know, rental market recovery? Because I'm sure there's certainly some people who are thinking was there something wrong with it? What does it need to recover from? Perhaps they're slightly out of the loop. We can't take these things for granted. I think sometimes people like using jargon and we're not all quite in the loop about, you know, what the market behavior actually means. And so before we even look at whether or not recovery is possible and what would need to happen for that to be realized. Let's first unpack what we mean by, you know, the market needing to recover. What does it need to recover from exactly? So COVID obviously has hit all of us really, really hard. It's been a market that has taken a lot of learning, a lot of adjusting. Unfortunately, what we've seen is we have seen an increase in fortunate applications. We've seen an increase in scams with people losing their jobs, with the economic factor, you know, factoring into what we have to look at. It's hit people where it counts and that's unfortunately being in the pocket. So that's where the recovery needs to come in. We need to once again start adjusting rentals so that we can start pushing rentals up again for our landlords because that pocket has hit landlords as much as it has with the tenants as well. And I think, you know, you've already touched on something that I wanted us to explore earlier, but I think let's get it out of the way. That is, of course, the scams that we also seen. I think let's probably just give the top tips for what people should be looking up for in terms of scams or the different ways also that some of these rental scams, you know, sometimes end up looking because I think you may see a post on privateproperty.co.ca and we know that scammers also use the very credible platforms in order for them to scam. So it's not that you're seeing a random tweet from, let's say, a new account. They use credible platforms to advertise and ultimately and more often than not, sometimes they can even use an agency. Sometimes they, the owner, are going to be the ones who say, no, I'm putting my own property up and there's nothing that's a red flag from an owner posting an ad on any platform because some owners, of course, you know, DIY their property portfolio. So what are some of those telltale signs of a potential rental scam that viewers at home need to be aware of for the future and particularly during this festive season? So Zama, in any time of crisis and of any time we're finding into our crunch, obviously, I'm talking specifically now about festive season, you're going to have the ones who need a couple of extra bucks in the pocket. So we've got the tenants who are actually posing as landlords and we have vice versa. So when you've got the tenants who inquire with a legitimate agency, they set up the viewing, they then arrange a viewing with an outsider who's wanting to view the property, they then make contact with that perspective tenant and tell them that if you want to to bad the property, best you pay your deposit ASAP. We all know paying your deposit ASAP is not what any legitimate agency does. We do have a process to follow. You don't pay deposits before you qualify. If you are dealing with a reputable company, you are going to be dealing with a process that's going to take you a while. And by a while, I mean, you're looking at a 20, 40, 48 hour turnaround, you're not going to be asked in half an hour of viewing to put down a deposit. It's not going to happen. So that to me is one of the first most when it comes to the tenants out there that will be part of the money. And then one of the topics that we are going to be looking at this evening is the fortunate applications that come in. And you know, those unfortunately go to the landlords who don't have the know-how and they then get roped into dealing with an unsavory character. And as we all know, once somebody's in the unit, it's not that easy to get them out. So you want to make sure you're putting your hands into the right, you know, your property into the right hands so that you've been looked after for the long term. And we're certainly going to be exploring that, you know, shortly, something that I know that the landlords also want to put inside on what are some of the things that they need to be watching out for. If you're going to DIY it certainly needs to look out for certain things. And sometimes perhaps use good service providers that help you in that stage because, you know, doing the due diligence is actually very difficult when you don't even know what some of the things you need to be looking out for. And so I think as a landlord, it does pay certainly in the early stages of your portfolio, of your property journey, when you still haven't figured out how to do certain things to work with professionals who know how to sift through a lot of the noise. I see some of the love that you're getting on our Facebook page and all the effort and glad to render happiness. Manulika watching, Farana Siddiqui saying, evening fam, things are looking fabulous as always. Your smile, hey, admin with green hearts. Thank you very much there, Farana. We've also got PtyLimitedSpanya. I love it when people are watching and engaging us also with the company profile pages that they have. Because we also know that this family is a family where, you know, we are watching in our individual accounts, but also watching with our property or either with our business accounts. And so really engaging with those as much as possible. And some of them are, of course, probably in the property space or a service provider in something that is relating to property. So that's absolutely incredible. Now, Shuri, I want us to then look at the, you know, the service that Rinpoche provides that helps with, you know, identify or certainly helps with mitigating the risks associated with scamming. You know, when people think of it, whether you're a tenant side or sort of a landlord side, how does Rinpoche come into the picture and assist with that particular risk? So the first steps to take are your application process. And that we found with the book that we manage as well as the book that is a placement only, because those are the two different options that you can look at. Those are your ground rules are always where anything in life starts. So if they're not done properly from scratch, you are going to land up with the repercussions later. So your application process, the process that you follow with your supporting documentation, your due diligence and IP that you have to actually, as a company, formulate for the specific product that you're dealing with, is something that is, it's a product that we've worked on as a whole, as a company, because it's a great, you know, there's been a very big hole in the industry. You know, we've always been known as, you know, estate agents, that what we could do, you know, for the quick buck, and we can't look at that as the money making racket that people pretend that, you know, perpetrated to be. It's a very strong business deal that you have to look at in its entirety as a full qualification for credit when you're doing a rental. It's not, you know, just a quick deal to put together. I want us to go for a quick break and find out who the lucky winner of the 1000 Rounds that is in the money bag is. And when we come back, we're going to look at, you know, what are some of the things that landlords need to look out for in terms of applicants, sort of being, when you do your due diligence and trying to establish whether or not an applicant is a fraud or somebody who actually can't afford the, you know, the apartment or the property rather that you are renting out, because we see a lot of that. There are also chances they know the system, and if anything, they're professional rental scammers, right? They know how the system works. They know how difficult it is to legally get somebody out of your property, and they're probably counting on you being a newbie landlord and, you know, going to feel stuck and also not having the financial and legal muscle to adequately get them out. Because the thing that we do not do, we do not resort to illegal action when we deal with, you know, delinquent tenants. We absolutely do not do that at all. So you want to make sure that you get your due diligence right from the get go. And I think when you're new as a landlord, you also want to make sure that you don't make certain mistakes that are ultimately going to cost you quite a significant amount of money. But in the meantime, let's have a look at who the lucky winner of that 1000 Rounds in the money bag. And when we come back, I also want to hear actually from, you know, landlords, if you have any horror stories of tenants who have somehow scammed you or, you know, managed to go around not paying rental or perhaps damage, damage rather your property, what are some of those stories and how did you resolve it? Please, whatever you do, don't tell us anything illegal that you did. We do not endorse that kind of action. I don't want to hear anything about locking people out at all. And you should not be doing that. But how did you go about legally resolving that particular issue? Let's have a quick look at the lucky winner and we'll be back in just a moment. And that lucky winner this evening goes to Oroz and Zwanin. 1000 Rounds that is in the money bag. I hope that you are indeed watching Oroz drop us a message to claim the 1000 Rounds that is in the money bag. Oroz and Zwanin the potential lucky winner. And I hope that she's watching can claim that money. Otherwise, we're going to have a roll over, but she's still got some time to claim the money. We'll see if later on in the show she has indeed claim that cash prize. But continuing our conversation with Cherie Van Binnen, who is the head of residential rentals at RIN Prop, looking at can the rental market recover after 2021? You know, before the break, Cherie, we looked at ways that, you know, tenants or potential tenants can spot any scams that they see. We also, of course, explored what we mean by your rental market recovering, what we're recovering from. I want us to then look at the ways that landlords can spot a scammer, you know, a tenant who we know is a habitual scammer. We know of these. I mean, I mean, I mean, quite a few landlord groups and some of them have said, look, once they actually started tracing where this person has lived, they saw that this is their pattern. They kind of go around different places, stay a few months, sometimes we'll pay rent for those first two, three months. And after that, stories sort of start coming up. So what should a landlord be doing? Well, when they're doing their due diligence, when it comes to, of course, checking whether a tenant is credible or not? Well, first and foremost, Zama is, when something looks too good to be true, it generally is. So when you've got someone wanting to pay six months, 12 months rent upfront, you know that they are generally trying to cover something somewhere. Nobody really wants to part with money that they don't have sitting lying around, unless they've got a good reason behind it. And once they're in the property, what generally happens after the six months or the three months upfront is the landlords don't get any further payment. And as you rightly said, to get a tenant out, you have to make sure you follow the letter of the law. And you have to then make sure you do it, you know, the right way from beginning to end. And that just starts costing a lot of money. So do the groundwork the right way and and wait and get the right tenant. And then you don't have to sit losing money that isn't necessarily there to to be lost at that moment. The application process we find is, is something that a lot of people do see as tedious, whether it's applying for a cell phone or an account or a home, it's having to get all your supporting documentation. And unfortunately, it is something that you you do need to insist on. And you need to be able to verify that what you're getting is legitimate documentation. It's it's something that we have seen a prolific increase in with more and more applications being processed online. People very seldom come in hand in a original bank statement or pay slips or ID for that matter. So being able to do, you know, a scan or a lovely quick put together computer pay slip is something that they think that they can pull your eyes, you know, pull the ball over your eyes pretty quickly on. So it is something that you do need to have the experience to to be able to pick up what you're looking at and where to look for for the telltale science. And in addition to that is to obviously make sure that you are doing the the relevant reference checks and and credit checks and being able to take note of what what all of that is saying to you in which direction you're pointing you in. And I think, you know, when we also look then at especially the new landlords, because they wouldn't know how certain things look or certain documents that have been you know, done at at least races. And that's why more often than not, we recommend that you work with a professional because you don't quite have an eye to spot, you know, some of these things. I think what would be besides working with, you know, a professional but what advice would you give to those landlords who for some or other reasons still insist on managing their own, you know, tenants from from procurement stage right through to actually the day to day management. Because of course, there are different ways that you can manage your portfolio. Sometimes the procurement, you can outsource that part. And then we left with a tenant and sometimes you also outsource that aspect as well. So any advice for those tenants, for those landlords rather, who want to do it from, you know, from the beginning to the end when it comes to really sharpening their eye and being able to identify whether they're dealing with the credible individual or not. Without giving away all the secrets of the trade, 20 years of business experience in rentals is, is why RenProp has actually got that IP in place and we're able to pick it up. So it is very difficult to give, you know, a pinpoint because it's a wide variety of different aspects. So the one thing I would say to any perspective landlord right now is, is don't just look at a credit report because a credit report on its own isn't going to give you enough history. Looking at a simple pay slip on its own is not going to give you enough credibility. So you have to look at things very holistically. And unfortunately, the, the, the telltale signs are things that you only pick up with time and experience. It's not, it's not a done science. It's something that, that you learn over the years. And my agents are trained in, in a way that they have to be able to pick up everything and anything and be kept up to date because, you know, unfortunate like everything in life, every aspect of, of a fraudulent application is updated quite regularly. So, you know, where we would see one pattern over a couple of months, we'll see that, you know, the fraud takes another turn for a couple of months. So there's definitely different aspects of it. And, you know, doing your own homework, unfortunately is something that, that it's not a rental is not a quick fix to, to fill your property. It's something that you've really got to take the time to, to do a lot of in-depth investigating with all honesty. I often tell my agents that they're actually little forensic scientists because they have to, to look for every small little clue. And people, you know, used to look at agents and go, oh, well, that's a nice job to do. But it's, it's a very in-depth job to do. It's, it's not a simple case of just popping somebody into a property. You need to look at that person holistically and be able to, to give your landlord the assurance that you have checked absolutely every avenue. We also see a lot of the reference checks that can be done are obviously telephonic. And that's the other way that we see a lot of HR departments that don't actually exist. That's it on the other side of the telephone confirming employment. So, you know, before you, you take the first phone number that you get and, and the first voice that picks up the phone, who confirms everything, understand that it is something that is, isn't as easily to, you know, it's not as easy to confirm as, as what people would like to think it is. And I think it's such an important one, Shari, which probably leads me to my next question. All right, some of the trends that at, at Renproc, you've, you've been seeing, and you've already started pointing to, you know, what your agents have been doing and some of the trends that you've been seeing. But from a holistic perspective, what have been some of the rental trends in particular that you've seen, whether it's from the demand side from consumers or certainly from the supply side from the landlords. At the beginning of, of this year, going into our second post COVID wave, we noticed that we had a huge supply of, of rental property because everything from a sell side obviously went very cold at the beginning of the year. And we had a lot of people who could not afford their rentals. So those all became available to, to the greater markets. But what we're seeing now is there is a change. There is definitely a shift in the last two months where we are now seeing that we can start increasing rentals again, that the demand out there is definitely a lot higher than it was at the beginning of the year. So our, our numbers have, have increased drastically. When I look at our inquiry rates, for instance, we've hit the highest inquiry rate we've ever experienced in Renproc in the last two months. And that's on its own shows that if we're getting that amount of inquiries in, we, we thankfully have the properties to cope with that at this current moment in time. But it does show that the supply is going to slowly dry up, which means there will be an upside for the landlords, which means we don't have to go backwards in rental pricing any longer. We'll be able to start, you know, having a little bit of a return on the rentals instead of it being, you know, liability, which a lot of landlords found to be the case with COVID last year, and definitely at the beginning of this year. And, you know, before I let you go, Shuri, when we look at 2022, you know, any predictions about whether Intel market is going to be going firstly for the, you know, tenant side, and then of course, for the landlord side. I know many of us this time of year, and we did it last year, we reflect a lot on the year that was, but also, of course, try to have any kinds of predictions what we can potentially anticipate into the new year. We found and what we're seeing is there is definitely an upturn in everything property. It's definitely looking up from every aspect, not only the rental markets, which is a good thing because property is very indicative of where you are as a country. And I think for us, we were in a very uncertain time with COVID and where the economy was going. But it's definitely shown us that there is a turn and it's a positive turn. And rentals are increasing. That means that our landlord base is increasing, our tenant base is increasing, which means ultimately your property is going to increase in value and you're going to be getting a greater return. So I do see that as a company, we're seeing a lot of positivity. And I think that's, you know, a great note to leave it on, that in as much as there's been certainly a lot of lows this year, whether for landlords in particular, I think tenants for the most part have enjoyed a really great market and they very likely will continue to enjoy that great market. The upturn is coming. And I think landlords need to know to weather those storms. And that's why, you know, property is a long-term investment and there are instances where we go through periods like this. And if anything, if you bought well, if you ran your numbers adequately from the get go, then you also adequately plan for, you know, this particular period where you may have to keep your rental at the same price, four points for perhaps, you know, a few years. And we're not quite there. I mean, this is what the second year of experiencing this, but you certainly do need to be aware of that. Cherie, it has been such a pleasure to have you with us on the show. Thank you so much for doing this. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Take care. And that is Cherie von Bidden, who is the head of residential rentals at Ringprop. Wrapping up the Thursday edition of the private property podcast with myself, Usamandouma Kumaalo. And I see that Uruz and Tuane has indeed raised her hand. She's been watching us live and has claimed up 1000 rand that is in the money bag. So we're back at 500 tomorrow. I love it when people are watching and it can claim their prize money, especially because it's December. We could all use that little bit of cash, you know, petrol prices going up. Everything is absolutely growing up. So I think every little bit of rands, you know, every few rands that you can get to top up your money certainly goes a long way. Well, that's it for myself, Usamandouma Kumaalo. This Thursday evening, I will be handing over to Umbali Nwakwa at 8 p.m., who's going to be bringing you the farming podcast. I'll be back on the streets tomorrow at 7 p.m. Until then, hope you're staying home and staying safe.