 Good morning everybody. Hello, good morning. What a lovely day it is. Oh it's a lovely day. It's been a while since we joined you. I'm Chris Morrison. I'm Jane Secker. And we're the... What are we? Who's going to do this bit? We haven't practiced this bit. We haven't practiced being remote from each other for a while. We haven't been remote for some time so there we go. Well we are the co-chairs of the Copyright Online Learning Special Interest Group which is part of the Association for Learning Technology as well as being other things in wearing many different hats. I also work at Bodby and Libraries, Copyright Licensing Specialists and you are... We also wear many different t-shirts. We do indeed, yeah. Yes so I was in university and yeah well let's get cracking because this we've got a really good session lined up haven't we today. This is our first session since we saw many of you in person and Chris take us through the schedule. So we've got some copyright news for you coming up. Exciting events and exciting publication but the main event is our review of Icepops the International Copyright Literacy Event with playful opportunities for practitioners and scholars and we have three people presented at our World Cafe. We're going to give you a bit of a review some photos of what happened, a bit of a flavour of all the fun and intellectual challenges and excitement that took place at the Bodleian Libraries and at the University of Oxford just a couple of weeks ago. So shall we... We know some of you were there and some of you weren't there as well so hopefully this should be equally entertaining and interesting for people who were there and for people who weren't able to join us as well yeah. So let's get started. Since the last minute. Yes so we actually haven't had a webinar since July have we Chris? No it's been a while. So we we both had some time off in August and actually I had some time off last week so this is a picture of me on the left tiny little dot you can see there on the screen I'm doing yoga in in Greece so I'm feeling very very zen and chilled out and I was actually back teaching in front of a class yesterday so stress levels have gone up quite a bit since then but yeah it's it's been a great summer really nice to have time off in August unfortunately I spent half of my leave catching the dreaded virus so in August so that was less good but you had a good time didn't you Chris? Yes I did I was in Spain at the beginning of August he's been doing some stand-up paddle boarding he was very hot and it was very lovely but yes that was the nice rest and then it's all been go since we got back really hasn't it so just as a reminder we have our archive of webinars on the blog this is all the previous copyright and online learning group webinars we've done over the last couple of years now and you can catch up with things there so moving on to the next feature which is copyright news so number one copyright news yes so some of you may well have seen the flyers that we were handing out if you were at ice pops on the 8th of September but Eiffler have actually published a new book that's called Navigating Copyright for Libraries the very exciting thing about this book is that it is available to purchase as a print book by the Greuter but the whole thing is also available open access so we've popped the link in there to the DOI it's got a whole range of chapters from people around the world not singling out any chapter in particular here but chapter 13 lucky for some was written by Chris and I and it's about copyright education and it's links with information literacy and we're quite we're reasonably happy with this chapter aren't we it's certainly a topic people will have heard us speak about before but we did spend quite a lot of time trying to lay out all the things that we thought were relevant and putting it in the context of a wider book where many different aspects of copyright and libraries are explored which was a really great honour to be asked to do it and a really good opportunity to kind of set stuff out so reading back after all the pain of writing it rewriting it reviewer's comments and rewriting it again I think it's all right so more on that yeah and the book is the book has got some really really useful chapters and very international in its scope as well but some really useful stuff about copyright exceptions for libraries etc etc so definitely check that out um yeah and and yeah download you can download it for free so there we go good old ifla well done so the next thing we wanted to mention is this dag event on audiovisual resources I think people many people will have seen us because we shared it on the listen obviously main in it so it is for national acquisitions group members but in fact I think that they're interested in anyone who is part of an institution that's looking at this question of how to get access to audiovisual material for teaching so you can contact Jenny at NAGT if you're interested in attending this next Wednesday at 2 p.m so if you don't have the details of that then just drop us a line and we can we can actually could we just put Jenny's email in the chat yep I can do that if you want me to yeah hold on for a while if you want yep I'm just doing that now so excellent so that it was and this this is very interesting to us because as many of you know we've been looking at this area of what is fair access to audiovisual content under copyright exceptions and the project that we've been doing with Bart Milletti from learning on screen we presented um or bar presented initial findings of that at ice pops conference so all all things that are happening and and good to to stay up with the latest thinking on that yeah so the final piece copyright news yeah so the site winter forum again many of you may well have seen the dates been advertised for this it's an online event hosted by the cla and it'll be on the 3rd of november and they've got morning and afternoon sessions so 10 till 12 and 2 till 4 and i'm sure that more details will be put on the site over the next coming few weeks but they've got some confirmed topics already listed there um on the booking details so you can see they're going to be talking about um things to do with communicating effectively with colleagues about copyright a bit about um ocr and accessibility some dcs updates and a bit about interlibrary loans and things so that sounds like that should be a great event indeed absolutely so I think that concludes the copyright news for the day shall we talk about the main event the main event let's do that yes so ice pops 2022 um whether you were there or whether you were not there um then hopefully this will give you a bit of a flavour um of of the day so it was held on uh the 8th of september 2022 um at the university of oxford um this was the middle picture is actually that wasn't the venue of ice pops that was uh kibble college which where where some of us um stayed um and that was first thing in the morning actually um so before we heard the very sad news about the um the the the queen's passing um i saw that little rainbow above kibble college which i managed to grab a photo of so it was actually um it was it was you know a very memorable day for a whole range of reasons and i'm sure many people will who were there will always remember where they were um but there's chris and i on the left um that was in the room so we were at the catholic chaplaincy um which is part of the university of oxford and we had a very nice large space um and we had um 70 delegates join us and we also had some new friends join us didn't we um i think that people can't see me at the moment um but you never know eddie and uh lucy may well join us again a webinar a future webinar what do you think chris uh well we will have to see i know they're very keen to join us again uh and obviously they kick things off very nicely we certainly need to make sure that it actually fits with the topic of what we're talking about right yeah okay um shall we do a quick rundown of the things the highlights of what we had uh go for it yeah yeah so we had uh two keynotes one from uh professor emily hudson king's college london the other from douglas buccathie european foundation and dr andria wallace from the university of exeter so emily was as you can see from the slide here we have a case the shazam versus only falls um and horses it was around the parody exception so emily spoke to us was one of her um most enduring areas of interest is around the parody exception but she also talked about how she teaches law students and used that as an example and looking at fair use cases and appropriation art so it was really interactive i think people found it really um uh interesting to see her insights as a law lecturer uh how she she works with her students but she described as anxious inefficient utility maximizers um so talking about the some of the the challenges around their approach to understanding these these things around intellectual property law when they're just trying to get the right answers and get through in order to work out how do they then get themselves into a law firm and all these get through their law degree so it was really interesting uh to see that insight um uh and yeah as i said lots of really great interaction with the audience and then the other uh key note was uh uh andrea and dug talking about um it was hawking hogarth so they used um hogarth's rakes progress as an example of what's happened over the years with those images hogarth was instrumental in expanding copyright protection to artistic works but then now what's happened with the way his works are made available through cultural institutions what kind of licensing uh terms do they put around it so a brilliant creative way of exploring some of those issues with lots of use of those images absolutely yeah and i think one of the things that really struck me from their talk was also how um many of our our cultural institutions are still um either claiming copyright or you know putting sort of slightly more restrictive licenses on some of these images which in many other countries around the world quite a lot of the the galleries and libraries and museums have made them available haven't they um as as public domain works so it's very very interesting i think about the terms and conditions around those and one of the you know one example was the pictora and albert four thousand words um for the vna's terms of use for their digital images and how easy is it for anyone to actually look through that so they they were they were fantastic um we also had lightning talks session we did yes so our our lightning talks um were given i think eight minutes very strictly by chris when they were cut off so you can see um julie murray from the cla who was first up talking about the copyright literacy initiatives um from um the cla and um she was followed by bart milletti who was talking about copyright unfair practice in film education and talking about the the code that we've been developing for the use of audio visual works we also had um pre an event from the open university they talked about research support and intellectual property and how they've worked um in partnership um over developing some copyright training at the at the o u um matt lambert from the british library joined us um about some of the work that the bl have been doing to provide more um simple kind of nicely um aesthetically pleasing copyright information for readers at the bl um and then we had um remona and april from um lund university in sweden joining us to talk about um the use of cc by licenses at their institution and how they convey the complexity of creative commons to to uh members of staff there great to have debora um from strathclyde joining us to talk a bit about um engaging students with copyright and the work she's been doing at strathclyde and then also uh kate um was talking to us um about some of the things that happened during the pandemic and i'm being told by christ to speed up so let's go on to the next session so we have uh the world cafe section so we're bringing you some of the highlights this is just to give you a flavor of what this is about people on tables then then the delegates move around to hear the presenters and again they had eight minutes each and it was quite an endurance feat for our presenters to get through all that stuff so uh you know they're listed on the uh on the program those who've got uh materials that they've been able to share have sent those through to us but we'll let's wait because we have our three presenters talking to us and we'll get more of a flavor of that in a moment and so also to say we finished off the event with the copyright jedi council talking about the future of copyright education um gave us a chance to dress up again which was good fun um and uh yeah that was a good discussion um so i think we need to move on i think so i think so yes um the the day after the conference quite a few of you stayed on to join us um you're not allowed to take photos in anywhere in the Bodleian so the photos are all outside um but this was a a lovely picture of the group that went on one of the um tours of the Bodleian library i have to say i did rather fall in love with Duke Comfort's library um which is absolutely beautiful if you haven't ever been to see it um and the Radcliffe camera which is on the right there as well um and then the other tour that i was really fortunate to go on and i've kind of been um going on about pretty much ever since was at the Museum of Natural History in Oxford so this is a little group of us who were um on that tour um we saw some absolutely wonderful treasures and the book that's on the right um is it was actually printed in 17 i think it was it was done in 1705 um and it was by a woman who who went out um to South America and painted insects and plants and it was probably one of the most beautiful things i've seen um i did also used to work at the Natural History Museum in the library so i saw lots of things like that years ago um and that bird on the left is not a dodo they do have a dodo there but that is some kind of i think it's called a crane bill or a spoon bill or something like that and they are real and they're quite scary i don't know if anyone who was there can remind me of what that is but i i i was quite terrified by that thing so there we go i think that's that's highlights of the the day after it was really lovely to see everybody and thank you for everyone shoe bill that's what it's called thank you tim thank you very much yes yes it's the most scary bird ever so right excellent i'm sorry i missed it i'm sorry i couldn't be there i was otherwise engaged anyway here we go the highlights of the world cafe we have christine and nicola sorry in university of law talking about their training resource we have ollie bridal from Bodleian talking about his twine for labyrinth about guiding research through open access publishing and then we will have Rachel Scanlon also from Bodleian talking about her creative comments citation game so can i pass over now to christine and nicola would you like to take over the control are you going to share your slides and your your screen yourself or do you want me to set those up if you can share them gris i don't worry i'm just okay so we can see the main not in presentation mode at the moment all right sorry now now we're crashing in just one second christ could you share them i can indeed yes not a problem yeah contest here we go it's over to you um so um we don't have long but i wanted to um to present what happens when an e-learning designer and an open access through a copyright person come together to create something for students we were very keen a couple of years ago and then that went down during lockdown to create a resource that was very friendly for students so if you go to the um it had to be something short for um to capture the attention of undergraduate students we wanted to introduce the idea of risk and some new ones when addressing copyright issues to explore opportunities for co-creation with students which is something we did in one version of the module and eventually to develop as an open educational resource but we're not there yet and that's where i wanted to pick your brains in this time today we also wanted this to be self-paced so i think initially we had thought of a leaflet and then i don't know how we got to an online module but it is i think you came to me and just said can we can we make a creative resource but we wanted something really playful and something with potential for interaction later on through a flipped classroom approach if we had the chance um an early version of the module as i said included videos of the moment we have time to share the video if you want to i think i'll just talk about them just because there was a bit of weakness with the sharing so what we did was with the students we wrote a script and then we had four students who were already interns and they went and filmed little scenarios for using the script they filmed them themselves they did all the editing added all kinds of interesting bits in and the reason we did that was because we thought that actually students creating content is going to be hopefully more relevant and students will appreciate it we feel most they chose Starbucks as a venue for which just happened to be a cafe on on our campus that's big enough um and they filmed them all in there um so it was really nice they had four different ones um but i'm not sharing them today but we can certainly share a link to some screenshots later on if that's helpful and what came across in that very well because they they had a lot of say as we say in the creation of the script as well is the understanding that there is no definite yes or no answer that it is a matter of judgment and this is one of the big outcomes we we want it out of this so when it comes to the module itself the key topics that we wanted to address is that there is such a thing as copyright and what is covered by copyright law and the need to ask for permission by default a bit about licenses with the focus on open licenses and what possibilities open around working around copyright and also copyright exceptions and fair dealing but very light touch as i said and more um the the introduction of the concept of this now the theme was Starbucks for two reasons one personal reason i couldn't leave Starbucks out of this i'm i'm married to a very hardcore fan and i live with toys around so it was an opportunity to to do something around that but more seriously also it is memorable it is a a cultural reference that hopefully a lot of people would identify with and we also included other amusing or memorable scenarios the monkey selfie that's very well known the code case and the taste of cheese etc etc something that is very close to my heart and also um one of my roles is um open resources and the value so i it's an opportunity to introduce also open access uh open data and the value of open licenses i want so the module itself you can wait for the oer versions hopefully or i'm very very happy to send the link that at the moment sitting on the back end of articulate rights which is what we eventually used for this but i wanted to focus on certain things just to show you what i'm talking about but also what copyrights ironically what copyright issues may arise from making this particularly annoying so the module opens as the big hook with a star wars style video using three seconds of the opening of star wars music and the classic star wars crawl but instead of star wars story there we've put copyrights information from wikipedia and then we have Yoda come up and say stop the video you're infringing copyright and this is the talking point from there on we're asking um participants in the module to say why do you think we stopped that what is copyright and we take it from there there is a quiz which is not for uh knowledge shaking it is to introduce different cases where copyright applies so we say is a book copyrightable uh is a dance move copyrightable is the force copyrightable etc etc and we try to make this engaging and give some feedback and say to people okay that's why you would need permission in these cases but is permission always um easy it's not take the case of the monkey selfie and take out the most straightforward cases as well um you don't always have to ask for permission even though that's the default so we talk about open resources and open licenses but what again i wanted to focus on is how we introduce fair dealing and we go with what would Yoda do what would the fan minded person do an honest person um what would you do in in certain cases this is why we start talking about the different criteria the different things that someone is considered uh when applying the copyright exception and applying fair dealing um this is also where ideally the videos created by students should come in but at the moment because we didn't have permission for this version from the students we use these cheesy scenarios that are verbal and articulate rise and we focused on this scenario saying using images in a presentation using quotes in an essay using video in a student podcast what would you do the feedback there points out in every case that it is a matter of of judgment and weighing up the different um factors before making a decision linking it back to the star wars introduction would we be in trouble for that or not and we share the thinking around that because we're still quite nervous about using any any length of of star wars music for example um yeah it's actually articulate right but we're trying to really build it in something open so that we can release it and then anyone can edit it because the problem is articulate licenses whether you're using storyline or writer about a thousand pounds so it's not easy so we're we're recreating it in another format that anyone can then edit yes so it can be used as a um or we are up to a point you can have it as a scone package and people can access it openly but if others want to to build on it it's not it's not thank you for that so we've we finished with some wise words summarizing the whole uh takeaways from the module in yoga language and what that brings me now to a few questions for the group how risk um of us do we need to be for this especially if it's an oh yeah use of star wars music i would say it could be illustration for instruction but i don't know i've i've heard some things about uh lucas film being quite aggressive about these things on the other side um on the other hand it's not commercial use um i've been reading a lot around fair use guidelines and open educational resources again it's a matter of of judgment use of images is another interesting one because we used um creative commons licensed images but that got me thinking the people who have taken pictures of star wars toys or themselves dressed up as star wars characters could they license this openly again it's a bit of a gray area um it depends very much on commercial use and then finally the use of trademark characters and quotes so when i say what would you do i think that's absolutely fine it's a simple reference but when i use you know that they're delivering wisdom again it's a bit more of a gray area and i don't know if we have time to to have a discussion on that but if we don't i was really really love to hear from you so this is where we are i don't know greece and yes sorry i was just trying to unmute i was getting stuck with the unmuting i just wanted to say i i i was really pleased to see your presentation i think the questions that it raises were one of the reasons we wanted you to come on and share it with the rest of the community because i think often when we are presenting copyright information from an institutional perspective we we're so worried about um infringing ourselves that we end up sitting on the fence and creating materials that often actually aren't that helpful for people um so i think if we can have what i'd be keen to get and maybe people can put it in the chat but certainly put their hand up if they want to uh give an opinion or or question around what you've raised here in my view i think the the way you presented it um was it was about the that judgment that gray area it was presenting them some for the students with something that would make them say well on one hand this on the other hand the rights holder could potentially be um yeah it could be likely to challenge us so perhaps in the chat or raise a hand if anyone wants to come in on what their view of it is uh based on what they've seen i just popped in um because we we have um we had a webinar um last year from the the people that developed the code of fair practice for OERs which is a us obviously document but they did talk about how that might apply internationally and i wondered if christine and nicola had looked at it at all um because it does talk in there about you know putting inserts into OERs and then it kind of also says about a caution with um content that it considers high commercial value which is obviously that's that's i think what we're talking about here isn't it that that potentially the star wars content could you know lucas film could come after after you for doing it it's really it's i think it's quite difficult but have you seen the code um christine or nicola yes and uh and christine also shared the information on the webinar so that's extremely useful and this is exactly what i focused uh jane the high commercial value yeah yeah aspect which made me think do we need to rebuild this without star wars with something dense but around the same i i i think i i think it would you know it were i i think you probably need to talk to some senior managers on the kind of appetite for risk at your institutions i would be i think i would be quite tempted to to do it because my feeling would be well what what would be the worst thing that somebody at lucas film would contact you and just tell you to take it down i mean it's it also seems given how much you know if you look on sort of all sorts of sites people have used star wars content in so many different ways to make memes to to kind of make little cartoon versions they can't possibly be chasing everybody um so i i think um for me those arguments are all relevant as to whether there are lots of people using it in other contexts um and looking at risk appetite but i think what you'd be losing if you were to remove all the star wars there is just it's what would that what would you do for me is at the heart of it and yeah actually that whole thing encapsulates something that explains a concept far more than all of the you know the legal wording around what fair dealing is supposed to be about i think it encapsulates something about honesty and integrity and about how you do things if from a pop culture context that any number of other words would fail to actually impart so for me that is what illustration for instruction is getting at so i would be strongly in favor of of seeing it in that light but then that's yeah that's where i'm coming from others make and there are obviously others who have different views so questions in the chat i'm gonna pop a poll as well chris i'm going to i'm i'm just going to um start a quick poll because i i want to see what people think here yes yes good call here we go let's find out let's ask the audience so rachel's made nothing at the same point i was trying to make slightly more concisely the star wars elements are tied to the message you're teaching assessing risk and balance and it would lose the impact uh oh i don't know if anybody else can see that voters they're coming in it's very exciting are they displaying on the screen for other people or is that just for us we can i think i think most people maybe 11 people haven't yet responded yes you can see them okay great great well we've got quite a lot of people that are not sure we've got quite a lot of people saying yes um we've got less people saying no though but yeah the the not sure is i i i think that's what i would expect to see i'm i'll be honest uh so i i mean i hope i hope that's helpful um but i would certainly be very keen on seeing that as an oer because it looks to me like something that would be fantastic to use um in that kind of context and others might find it very useful too yeah and we'd like to talk to you more as well because i think you know it could be something we could do some work on the code of the oer code in the uk and and yeah and having some really nice case studies that are kind of hard cases would be would be really useful wouldn't it chris yeah absolutely fantastic thank you so much and thank you for all the comments on that thank you yeah that was really great so um we will now move on because time is moving on to our next presentation so thank you again we know you've got chris and nicola so thank you so much thank you thank you so ollie are you are you there i am indeed okay so um are you you're sharing your screen aren't you um so you're going to get that set up yep let's see if this works so ollie is going to be talking to us about the twine creation he created uh to get out of the labyrinth for all these open access funder policies so um ollie over to you thank you okay i can can you see my slides there i can't get my video working but can you see the slides are there yeah okay fantastic okay i'll get started then um so yep so my name's ollie i um work for the uh rective science library part of the the Bodleian libraries at the University of Oxford and i'm the life sciences librarian and over summer i've been trying to come up with a tool that will help our researchers navigate these quite complicated uk r i um open access uh policy um so hopefully most of you are familiar with the uk r i but for anybody who isn't the uk r i are a major research funder government research funder in the uk uh a number of funders come under uk r i including people at the medical research council the arts and humanities research council and so on and they're input they're an important funder for us um for research in oxford uk r i do have quite a stringent open access policy so if you are funded as a researcher by uk r i you must make journal articles available open access and uk r i introduced a new open access policy in april of this year which actually strengthened some of these open access requirements particularly uh limiting embargo periods that were allowed and also the range of creative commons licenses that researchers can choose from so the uk r i have a policy um the problem with the policy is it can be very complex for researchers to navigate um there's lots of different things that a researcher has to understand in order to produce a publication which actually fully complies with all aspects of the uh policy um for example they need to understand the different types of journals they can publish in uh is it a gold journal is it a hybrid journal they need to understand the different ways of funding their open access publications so if they have to pay uh an article process a um an article uh publication charge then um they may be able to apply for money from the uk r i block grant which is money given to the university by the uk r i uh if their journal is part of a read and publish deal they may be able to use that to publish they may have to follow the green route for open access lots of different options they also need to understand something about licensing as well particularly rights retention which is part of the new policy so uh uk r i are keen for researchers to retain copyright over their publications um and researchers are limited in the type of creative commons licenses that they can select from and certain funders under uk r i have specific additional requirements that uh researchers have to comply with as well in order to produce a compliant publication so there's a lot a researcher needs to understand and be aware of the upshot of this is is that there is no single route through this labyrinth of regulations it'll be different for different researchers depending on who their funder is who they're publishing with what type of um funding there they have available and so on we do try to help researchers we have a really good open access oxford website that's got all the information there about um the uk r i uh policy but it is a lot of information it's quite hard for researchers to navigate that to work out what's relevant for them what information they need to take on board and to really get around all of that that regulation we do also provide briefings to researchers and training sessions in our departments but again it's a lot of information to get across and we often don't get very much time to do it and researchers always want us to tell them okay just step by step what do I need to do to make my publication compliant and because there's lots of different routes routes through these regulations we can't give them that simple one size fits all answer so sometimes researchers can get a bit end up getting a bit confused and frustrated when they're trying to do that their publication so I tried to come up with a solution um that has involved creating a tool which allows researchers to find their own way through these uk r i regulations and guides them step by step through the process asking them a series of questions so they only see information that's relevant to their own particular situation to do that I've built the tool using a piece of software called twine so twine is a free open source software and it's usually used to create interactive fiction if anybody's familiar with those kind of choose your own adventure books where you make different choices and then you'll get different endings in the story depending on what choices you choose this is kind of the digital version of that so I've created something called I've called the uk r.i open access navigator so to explain how this works then what twine does is it presents researchers using it with screens of information and they then get options as to what they can choose to do next so for example if we start with the one that you can see on the slide now so the first question is what kind of journal you're writing for and the researcher then can select from hybrid gold or diamond journal so when they choose one of those options they will then get taken to a different screen depending on the choice that they've made so if they go to the hybrid journal they'll then going to be asked about whether or not they've got a transformative journal there if they go for the diamond journal they're going to be asked whether or not they want to publish with a cc by or a cc by nd license and again they've then got some other choices that they can make so if it's a hybrid journal they can say yes or no and that then takes them to the next set of choices the next bits of information so the whole structure of the game branches and will ask questions based on and give the researcher information based on the choices that they've selected going through so this is a sort of a bird's eye view of what's happening but of course for the researchers that's selecting these choices they just see a single path through this information based on the choices that they have made so at the end of it they get a set of instructions that will tell them how to produce a compliant open access publication based on their particular circumstances the other thing we can do with twine is we can get it to get some extra information from the researcher so we can get it to ask them things like who their funder is and it can store that information so for example if a researcher tells us that they are funded by the medical research council or the bbsrc then twine can then be set up to show them then twine can then be set up to show them a little bit of extra information at the end which tells them that they have to also submit their paper to europe pubmed central which is an extra step for those researchers if a researcher is funded by the another research funder then they don't need to see that information so it won't be shown on twine so we can get just relevant information to the researcher so that's how it works in terms of behind the scenes what it looks like this is what twine looks like at the back end so each of the boxes here represents one of those information screens and the arrows represent the different choices going off to the different options this is what the researcher will see when they're using the software so they'll see some text and then at the bottom they've got their options that they can choose to go through and select the next step so a few reasons why we chose to use twine for this first of all it's simple you can learn the basics of twine in a couple of hours it's open source so there's no licensing issues it's reusable maintenance is quite straightforward we can add extra screens if necessary we can edit things quite easily when regulations change and it's also extendable as well so we could think about perhaps adding instructions for other funders like the welcome trust for example we hope the benefits to researchers are going to be that using this tool they will only see the information that they need to know for the particular publication that they're trying to achieve so they're not going to get overwhelmed with information in the way that they might do when they're looking at that information on the website it'll empower researchers to work through the publication process themselves without having to keep coming and asking us at the library for help and it supports all those different routes through those those ukri regulations depending on what options the researcher chooses a few problems and developments that we're thinking about just to finish off it's very much a text-based tool i'd like to do some work on making a little bit more visually appealing accessibility there are different versions of twine some of which are better with screen readers so i'd like to adapt what i've done so it works better with screen readers so it's more accessible and our next steps in this development are going to be user testing to see if it actually works in practice maybe thinking about incorporating other funders and i'd also like to think about developing a version that has an actual narrative as well so it's it perhaps can be used as a a teaching and a learning tool as well as a kind of a triage tool so hopefully that gives you some ideas of what i've been doing and i'll just finish there's a few links to twine some information about twine and other applications library applications that have been built using the twine software so thank you very much for listening thank you ollie that was brilliant i got some really great feedback from your world cafe session and the fact that you were also demonstrating with a piece of twine as well and the different cards to explain the concept behind it i think went down really well yeah thank you really excellent thanks again for joining us i think we're going to move straight on to rachel now in order to make sure we've got enough time to hear her presentation so please can anyone who has questions for ollie put them in the chat if we've got time for questions later then we'll see what's on the chat and what people have to say and we can take them all together um so thanks again ollie rachel can i uh get you up and ready and uh do you want me to share your slides yes please there we go brilliant so the creative commons card game uh rachel scanlan you're going to tell us about your playtest yes so um i had an idea to test to bring a card game a play element into a creative commons session that i already teach um so we we teach the session we teach them what creative commons licenses are and what's you know ccby is and nc ideally they've gone through all those things and at the end we talk briefly about uh attribution or and how to attribute a cc license and it tends to be a bit rushed and it tends to not stick very well and i think this is an important element of cc licenses whilst the 4.0 licenses are more forgiving the older licenses have strict terms and conditions that if you don't um attribute them exactly correctly linking to the right information and such you actually are in breach of the license and i know i've heard of stories and i think we've all heard of reports of um the rights owners pursuing users and getting funds from them so like we want to avoid that we want best practice when going forward so um i wanted to think of something that would be uh a bit fun because i like playing games and i do think games help information stick you know people using their hands physically interacting with something can be a way to really get the information to stick in their mind and it's in a different scenario than traditional learning scenarios so they can think back to it hopefully so that's some game theory so the thing is i had an idea um but i hadn't had a chance to test it and i was like haha ice pops willing volunteers so i designed some cards and i had water uh the four key elements according to creative comments dot org for a best practice attribution which are title and author and license and source so they're the four things they recommend having we know in practice you can't always have all of those but generally you will try and have them and i went on flicker and got a series of different creative commons images and gave them each a colored background so the idea is that you will make a set of the right cards so they'll all have yellow backgrounds and they'll all have the cute little doggo staring at the mixer and for one person and a different set of cards for someone else and so yes there's lots of amusing and interesting images on flicker that are creative commons and i definitely didn't spend too much work time just staring at pictures of penguins not at all and i decided you know because it's a game i wanted to include some other information and to make it a little bit more challenging and this was one of the first areas that came out in the play test that was really helpful uh people did get confused about what were the key elements of a good attribution and many people thought they should include the year or the publisher and i think this comes especially from people with an academic background so it means that now when i go to present the game i'll start by introducing the cards and asking the students uh the people attending session what which of these do you think are the four elements why do you think that and why we think that year and publisher aren't as important in an attribution for creative commons the way they are very important for traditional academic citations so it's a nice point of conversation and that came up entirely from the play testing so thank you so in the end this is kind of what i developed obviously number players can vary and varied very much in this session but groups of about i think four is a good number um and that each one each person has a hand of two cards and there is a shared play area in the center so if you've played poker and have encountered the idea of the river before this makes complete sense if you have never played or watched poker this is a really difficult concept to get across in two minutes to people so it's something that i need to work out in writing up my rules and explanations for playing but being able to play test with several people was really helpful originally this game started out as a variant of gin rummy and people drawing from a deck and that became if i learned from the play testing it was way too time consuming and didn't work so the idea was to get cards out as quickly as possible and then through play testing we worked out what would be the key actions for people to take so the idea is that people will make a set of cards you know yellow cards or purple cards or whatever based on their hand so if we look at player one here they have a red card and a purple card and there's two purple cards on the table so assuming that these you know one of them says author one of them says title one of them says license they only need one more purple card to create a set and win so that's the idea that we're trying to get the set so the actions that we worked out is um that someone could discard add to the table swap or then they could win and as were and make the attribution so to discard you know we said player player one discards they get rid of their red card they don't think the red card is useful there's a lot more purple cards they're hoping they'll get another purple card they draw one from the deck um and in this case it was yellow but that's that's how this card works draw one from the deck another action is adding to the table so you can make the shared pool of resources larger um in describing this to people it became really obvious that the shared pool of resource here is is symbolically all creative commons works in that it's resources that anyone can use anyone could share you don't take away from the center you can just use it whenever you want because that's the point of creative commons licenses you are using it doesn't stop someone else using it and it becomes a shared resource so it became this great metaphor to explain and tie in with the theme um so the idea is that yeah as an action someone can add a card to the table for game mechanics i was originally trying to limit the number of cards on the table but at the end of the day the point is to teach people about the attributions so um i scrapped that so now it's just we can just keep adding cards as long as people want until we get a full attribution the other option is for people to swap um and again this came from the various groups discussing some people were really enthusiastic about the idea of swapping and sharing the resources and such and other people were quite competitive and wanted to win and didn't want to share so we brought in the rule that someone could swap with another player if they were willing so for example our purple player one over here they don't care about this yellow card they're banking on the purples so player three might be they might be willing to swap player three and get that yellow card so those are the mechanics those are the swapping the idea is that people will keep going until there's a set of full cards um so they can use the cards in their hand the cards in the center of the table to make a full set to make a full attribution um and then the forky elements that we want them to have is a title and author a license and a source so those could be between their hand and once on the table and if you know those four came out in the table and someone says haha it's on the table they would win so again it's it should be relatively quick but i think it will take longer than the eight minutes that we had at ice pops but it was just such a fantastic experience to be able to test it and i was able to adapt the rules for each group that came along so thank you and if anyone has any questions let me know thank you Rachel brilliant thank you i think that that world cafe format worked for you because as you were saying you were able to tweak and change for each group and you think oh i'll try this um so i'm i'm glad that you were able to bring it to that i think for other people who were largely presenting the same thing not really changing it it was it was uh yeah um not necessarily quite as aligned with what they were doing but i i think it was a brilliant example of how to you know focus in on a particular area or something which people find difficult and have a playful way of approaching it um so we've got just a couple of minutes haven't we i think if anyone had questions for ollie or for rachel and i see there's some questions for ollie and ollie's given his email address in in the chat so people can contact him i mean i think the question i mean the question i have for rachel which is what happens next you're probably going to be saying to be well aren't we going to be running some training sessions at oxford at the botany so that that's the answer to that one isn't it we're going to be working and seeing how we incorporate this into what yeah so if it depends on when we get back if we get back to in-person sessions so the idea i'm hoping is that we demand this to our creative commons license session if we especially if we do it in person i think we could get it done in 15 minutes so it might what's currently an hour session we might bump into an hour and a half and have a little bit more time to go through the actual content and the teaching parts and maybe look for more interactive elements early on and then finish it up hopefully on a high with them feeling great of winning a game and having some participation and things like that yeah it's uh yeah i'm really looking forward to doing that and there's lots of opportunities and i think you're sharing this as an open resource and i guess what you're planning to do it would be strange if you didn't i guess yeah no i basically want to write up the rules and because i feel like the explaining that central part concept seems to be very challenging for people so i tried to i haven't had time at the moment with the ramp up to term so i will i'm working on writing up the rules and when it's ready i'm going to share the rules the cards and what i have and obviously it that it links to flicker so everyone can make their own but yeah it's definitely going to be open thanks so much for that so yeah any last questions put them in the chat and rachel can can respond there but thanks again to all of our presenters rachel to allie to christine and to nicola for uh i think people what i'm seeing in the chat really uh interesting and and uh ideas people want to follow up on so yeah thanks again yeah absolutely um i know i mean i hope i hope for those of you who weren't our icepops that's giving you a little bit of a flavor of some of the things that we talked about we are in the process of putting presentations um up on the website where we've got them from world cafe speakers we've got um uh one set of keynote slides are up from doug and andrea we're looking forward to getting emily's slides soon um and we do have all the lightning talks available now um on the website so um thank you to everybody who presented and participated in the day yeah we've just got a couple of things before we go um we've got a really exciting webinar um in two weeks time um so um that's going to be um a discussion about open textbooks we're being joined by um launa cambell from uh the university of edinburgh and from darah snoden from ucl who are going to be talking about open textbook initiatives at their institutions and i'm going to be facilitating a discussion um around that a little bit like a discussion we um we did at the open educational resources conference um we're looking to confirm some topics and speakers aren't we for november and december's regular webinars christ we're hoping we might um get some people who have written chapters in the ifla book to join us but it's a kind of watch and space moment yeah but yeah we are we are we will we will keep you updated as soon as we have those confirmed but we do have a date for your diaries for our christmas special which promises to be an exciting um quiz type um session so if you want to end the year on a high with your copyright friends put the 16th of december in your diaries so i think that just takes us to one last thing one last thing i'm gonna oh i'm gonna stop i was oh i stopped the sharing i meant to stop the recording what are you doing yeah you're gonna stop the recording don't stop the recording not for one last thing you can only can play music i was thinking what what happens when i play the music of course is that everybody leaves so i thought there we go one last thing so now one last thing is just to say this was some highlight photos from our evening social and uh the karaoke that took place um i think it's fair to say what happens at icebox stays at icebox so there may be some recordings but clearly these are things where we would we'd want to make sure we have the permission i mean there were very high quality performances in in there were there were i'd like some people um if they can remember to can people remember what our our esteemed keynotes were singing there i don't know if they they know that um emily did a fairly fantastic rendition of a abba number didn't she mm-hmm yeah um and uh yeah i think and neil and jess i think closed the evening with quite a memorable song as well yes as the staff were clearing around us and clearly wanting us to go and stop making lots of noise um it was uh yes a memorable occasion and they did just i've got one really final thing which is is anyone was at ice pops and you haven't on the evaluation form we would love you to fill it in and if you do have some videos of chris and i singing can you please send them to us because we don't have any videos or photos of that and we'd love to see them but we won't be putting them up anywhere maybe maybe we'll show a few at the christmas special but we won't be recording that so i think that just remains today great to see you all thank you and uh hopefully see you um on the 7th of october for our next webinar everyone thank you very much