 Please come to order please come in and sit down Please take your seats. Town meeting members only within the enclosure. All guests and other folks upstairs Everybody ready? You guys in the halls in the aisles please sit down. Welcome to the 2011 town meeting, Arlington annual town meeting. I'd like to have us all welcome the monotomy Minutemen who are going to serenade us with the Sar Spangled Banner and a couple songs. Please join us at the National Anthem. Okay, so Steve we're going to have Major Steve and Carol. I'd like to have Mr. John Marr former town council come forward for introductions. This moderator, thank you, John Marr of our precinct 14. It's my distinct pleasure tonight as a member of town meeting and also as a member of the Arlington Somerville Cambridge Salvation Army Advisory Board to introduce to you tonight for the last time. Major Steve Carroll. Steve has been the commanding officer of the Arlington Somerville Cambridge Post for 19 years and he has been he's now in his 40th year with the Salvation Army. People when they think of the Salvation Army they don't often think of the town of Arlington but in point of fact hundreds of people of the town of Arlington in fact thousands over the years during Major Carroll's tenure has received services from the Salvation Army on Mass Ave in Cambridge. Steve was instrumental in establishing the first licensed daycare center that exists in the Commonwealth and is called for homeless children. It is called Our Place. Steve is overseeing in his final days the groundbreaking last week of a complete renovation in addition to the Cambridge center. When you think of as I say when you think about Arlington you don't necessarily think of the Salvation Army but just a short distance away on Wellington Street there is a place a kind of a halfway house for men who have had substance abuse problems. 119 men have graduated from that program and now currently there are 92 of those 119 have established a permanent housing which they pay for themselves. In addition there is a at the Cambridge Center a program called Bridging the Gap which is for troubled use. I would also point out that the Cambridge Center in the last just last year has served over 123,000 meals to homeless individuals. Ladies and gentlemen I would just my distinct pleasure. By the way I just want to say one more thing I serve on the board there's many of you have served or currently serve here including Ed Choi from the redevelopment board Joe Tullamary former redevelopment board current chair of the zoning board of appeals Bill Shea of the permanent town building committee. It is my distinct pleasure to introduce to you for the last time before Tom being Major Steve Cowell. Shall we pray? I heavenly father what a privilege it is mine to represent this wonderful group of men and women before your throne. We know heavenly father that decisions don't come easy. We will wrestle discuss argue reason and come to some conclusions. We pray heavenly father that everything that happens this evening and throughout town meeting will be a such that it benefits all the people of Arlington that you were glorified that Arlington becomes and continues to be a place where business thrives men and women children live. We all call Arlington home. Thank you for this group and thank you for all they accomplish on behalf of those who live and do business here in your name we pray amen. Thank you Major Cowell for your years and your years of service. Thank you for inviting me men and welcome you all to the 204th annual Arlington town meeting. Pleasure to have you all back if you'll notice we have some new toys this year. We've gone from the Joshua Bell's efforts last year to a rear projection screen with a projector in behind being run by Dave Good. That you'll notice in my letter I said if you want to have anything projected on the screen this is what I was talking about and he's the guy you got to see. You've got to give it to him somehow either on those little memory stick things or email it get it to him as soon as you can so that he can make sure it'll show up nicely on our new screens. You'll also notice new timing devices. I'm keeping you guys on as we're moving into the current age these things are going to flash screen when you start talking yellow when you have three minutes left and a real annoying red light and beep when you're done hopefully no one's going to get past the green light excuse me the yellow light the um oh the adage I've said before three minutes is good five you're going to start losing us seven minutes we're going to vote against you holds true even though we have these so let's keep our remarks concise and to the point if someone else has said it once just get up and say I agree with him or her we don't have to have the same argument several times I've provided in the back of the assistant clerks table little cards with my names phone numbers and emails if you have any questions please call me home at work during the day or email me I'd rather deal with it before we get to the meeting than have some question or procedure or question of scope or something like that come up during the meeting so I can have some advanced notice as to what you want and I can give you a good answer that's also true if you have any questions of any of the department heads boards chairs committees or anything else get in touch with them first so they can have our answers for us more than once on the years past people have asked questions they weren't prepared for because we're kind of blind siding them um this isn't got your politics this is town meeting we're trying to run a good efficient town here let's let them know so they can give us some good answers right up on the first time around having said all that I am going to swear in any new town meeting members people who are first elected this year please rise so you're going to repeat after me sticking the your name in we're appropriate raise your right hand I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully and impartially perform the duties incumbent upon me as a town meeting member of the town of Arlington in accordance with the bylaws town manager act and the general laws of the commonwealth massachusetts so help me god congratulations now any town meeting members who are reelected please stand that's you now mr. pasta I was reelected so I have to say it too please raise your right hand repeat after me I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully and impartially perform the duties incumbent upon me as a town meeting member of the town of Arlington in accordance with the bylaws town manager act and the general laws of the commonwealth mass so help me god congratulations run last remark either turn them off or put them on vibrate and please don't be texting during the meeting if you got a text welcome to the hall a couple years ago someone asked that they could twitter during the meeting he has dispensation to do that because he asked me beforehand otherwise don't be texting your kids or your girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever and saying I'm almost done john's boring or something like this just just kind of really please don't do it I recognize the board of select chairman of board of selected is Clarissa role thank you mr. moderator and I believe there's some wonderful children who would like to come up to the front of the auditorium these wonderful children and their pto's are here tonight from the dallas school the hearty school you can move all the way over to that one and be in front of me so people can see you the oddison and the bishop school they've collected over sixteen thousand dollars to give to our sister city so I would like you all to please give them a hand thank you very much and now I'd like to recognize the vice chair of the board of selectmen Kevin Greeley you all can see right here thank you mr. moderator thank you madam chairman just one point of clarification uh Clarissa we're using my notes so it's it's uh my inaccuracy they collected money uh monies on behalf of our sister city but it's for the japanese relief fund for uh the devastation that occurred there luckily Nagoka keo is in the southeast corner of japan and was not adversely affected other than of course their fellow country people and you know it's wonderful tonight as we had the minute man here it's a wonderful tradition so is our sister city a wonderful tradition we're in our 28th year of that particular tradition and we've also for the last few years had a student exchanges so tonight we have some very special guests with us who are here on a student exchange program they will of course go to the red socks they will of course do a whale watch they are staying with allington families and they'll do a lot of things at schools during this week on thursday you're all invited to a cherry blossom festival at the oddison middle school starting at 6 30 to 8 where many of these students will perform some traditional dances for us so let me first ask them to stand if you would nice allington welcome for our 20 students visiting from if you would please a nice warm welcome just a couple of words of welcome from the head of the delegation my honor to present mr. koji hariyama thank you i stand here today to talk about the state of the town before i do that i would welcome i'd like to welcome my colleagues from the school committee who are here jeff cindy leba um cursey and bill's hiding back in the um back there somewhere there he is joe and judson may be home for a reason may they might be enjoying themselves a little bit more than we are tonight but anyway i really appreciate them being here it's wonderful that we have two of you being town meeting members really makes a difference and i'd also like to welcome senator ken donnelly if you would stand up ken really appreciate his his being here there may be parts of this speech that he doesn't particularly like but we um are great friends and we may differ in our ideas of how we approach things but he will always listen and i'm very grateful for that i stand here tonight with a very different speech from the one i gave in 2008 then we were in the fourth year of our of the old five-year plan and things were running very smoothly i want to thank the people who developed the plan for their forethought and care and for the stability that we've had for the last six years now is a different time the recession has left us wary and frightened and mostly concerned about the future and our pocketbooks the state of our town is still strong but the state of local finances here and everywhere is very troubled we can't look to the federal government to help us congress has cut the community development block grants block grant funding by 33 percent this year that funding has been our safety net for arlington for decades funding services for the elderly for troubled youth and for many programs and scholarships that have made a difference in the lives of the young the old and people with meager means and state government can't help us either because it has its own looming deficits actually there is one thing that the state can do and i add i personally urge the good senator and our three representatives to do it and that's to give the town the ability to put our town employees into the gic or a health plan that brings comparable savings to the town while maintaining high quality benefits for our employees i want to emphasize i want to emphasize this is not about asking our employees to accept inferior health insurance it's about providing good health coverage without overpaying for it which is what we're doing under the present system this move seems drastic to many town employees who have benefited from generous benefits for years now that being said i must say that our our employees are underpaid compared to surrounding communities and they do an outstanding job for us with that little pay i understand the fear of change i understand the concern over loss of bargaining rights on this issue but we really have no choice we can't keep doing business the old way if the cost of providing health insurance goes unchecked we will lay off even more teachers or fire firefighters more police and more dpw workers and more teachers of course we will lose the sense of arlington that we that we enjoy today in my opinion we've already cut too much we need to think and spend in new ways we want both sides to compromise as is happening behind the scenes right now on a health package for the coming year we need a partnership with our employees we need to help them by paying them fair wages and we need to ensure that the hra warrant article number 32 is passed this town meeting and we must lobby our state legislature to allow us to provide our valued employees the good health coverage that they deserve and that we and they can afford as as you know there will be an override vote on tuesday june 7th like many town leaders i urge town meeting and citizens to get involved in the discussion about the future of our town we have really benefited from the stability of the last multi-year plan which allowed us to keep the promises made to the voters in the last override and i believe again there there will be great benefit from this new plan there's a shorter time period of three years in a time of great uncertainty there is a vote about whether we continue to be great to be a great welcome in community or one that continues to lay off teachers reduce minimum manning of firefighters and police and dissipate decimate the dpw even further please come to the override cook kick off next sunday afternoon from three from one to three at the masonic temple on academy street we would love to have you there we started organizing about three weeks ago and i was really pleased to see so many young families and an equal number of white-haired veterans become involved in this effort the first organizational meeting drew 52 people and the override hadn't even been voted on yet um we meet every saturday at eight o'clock in the morning and that's really early for the white-haired veterans i'll tell you um the um i want to first of all i would like to get all the officials and town meeting members who are all already working on the override to please stand up please ask them questions and talk to them about why it's so important you vote and work with us on this override there are some really important warrant articles between before town meeting this year and we need your thoughtful consideration of possible changes about how we do business the management of our town does a darn good job and i am really proud of the people who sit behind me and to my to the side to my right side over there they are an energetic engaged group of managers who enjoy each other and take great pride in their work i give a lot of credit to our town manager brian sulloan for his finding these stellar employees and i want to thank it they and all the town workers in the town they and all the workers in the town deserve our respect and appreciation as an example how in the world did jimmy dodges crew of 19 people yes 19 managed to plow five square miles of roadway so efficiently all went along it was a miracle do you think the snow started on the 26th of june i mean of december and i'm not surprised if it wouldn't snow again tomorrow anyway they were they did a wonderful job and we're really proud of the work that they did we're going to be making a lot of big decisions this spring should we sell or lease the town assets of the cross be in parameter schools in order to help rebuild the tomson school we will be thinking about continuing our trends toward consolidating functions by voting on the combined town school human resources department and under article 51 we will be discussing whether to rework the way that our town and schools handle their financial affairs we will be discussing whether it is time for arlington to take a big step forward by adopting pay as you throw all these decisions have the potential to change the way we do business in closing i would like to urge you to think of the words of my former neighbor the why very wise charlie foskett when a recent memo talked about what he believes is arlington's core mission he and i don't agree much but we do on this and i want to read what he said number one in our core mission ensure public safety public health and public order this includes police fire health department building codes zoning traffic rules without these our citizens could not go about their daily activities number two maintaining public works and infrastructure the highways the byways the buildings and the equipment necessary to assure the first mission if fire trucks can't get to a residence or a commercial building there is no if there is no center for administration none of the core objectives can be achieved thirdly and very importantly the education of our children since the earliest days of our colonies our commonwealth our nation and our town this has been the primary obligation of our common society and lastly other common and societal objectives these include social backup nets for senior citizens and the less fortunate parks and recreation arts and culture unification programs and many other things that we'll hear about when we have reports um to this town meeting tonight i've always had great confidence in this town meeting you balance out the political agendas with your thoughtfulness and diligence we need your thoughtfulness this spring and i look forward to lively debates thank you for your time your involvement and your commitment to our community thank you very much thank you it is requested that the members of the board of select men and elected officials of the town town manager department heads of the of the town and staff superintendent of schools and staff committees commissions and boards of the town minute man regional vocational technical school district committee and superintendent members of the general court representing arlington also any consultants who have been retained to work for the town relative to articles to be acted upon by this meeting and representatives of the news media be permitted to sit within the town meeting enclosure all in favor say yes opposed unanimous vote i'd like to introduce for this first time my new town clerk is lucarelli who now has a job it has moved that if all the business of the meeting is set forth in the work for the annual town meeting is not disposed of at the session when the meeting adjourns it adjourns to wednesday april 27 2011 at eight o'clock okay so we don't finish tonight we're going to come back next wednesday yes sir not yet okay no i was wondering why you're raising him i haven't called for any announcements or resolutions no no i have to wait i'll call i'll give you a chance when it comes thank you now are there any announcements and resolutions now you can you got to do it in order you have an announcement or a resolution come to the microphone please you have to wait till things happen when you do when you're presenting articles i think you should count who is voting yes and count who is voting yes and never say that anything is a unanimous excuse me i sometimes have trouble with my tongue you should never say that anything is a unanimous vote because there are so many people who do not believe in a yes vote when you're essentially saying that everybody believes in a yes vote with a unanimous vote and i i think that's an immoral way to continue this process you should count who exactly believes in a yes vote and who exactly believes in a no vote i had noticed in the past that some a few people sometimes were against certain certain articles and it was they had to take marquis they needed a lot of guts to say to stand up in a situation like this mr marquis i'll take that under advisement and i'll follow the rules to set out in the bylaws thank you okay thank you any other announcements or resolutions sir thank you mr moderator eric helm with precinct 12 the yes for arlington campaign which supports the proposition two and a half override vote on june 7th invites all town residents to the campaign kickoff this sunday may 1st from one to three at the masonic temple on academy street child care and light snacks will be provided learn more about why we need an override find out what services will be affected and volunteer to help on the campaign you can learn more at the campaign's website which is www.yesforarlington.org or on facebook at facebook.com slash yes for arlington thank you any other announcements or resolutions oh mr sullivan brian sullivan the town manager you do have a resolution under article 31 that's at your places it deals with healthcare legislation as everyone is aware this is an issue that the town has been dealing with for the last couple of years with some with its employees unions just recently the house came out with proposed legislation that will finally give season town some relief in this area and provide us with some authority to take control over our health care costs this legislation will be debated sometime this week hopefully later in the week we're proposing that this resolution be adopted by town meeting under article 31 and we'll be bringing this up Wednesday night and asking that article 31 be taken out of order that we may present this to you to explain it and hopefully have the town meeting vote to support this thank you all right any other just to follow up on that the board of select when voted four to one in favor of the resolution with mrs. mohan voting in the negative thank you any other announcements or resolutions sir either come forward or get the microphone for miss wever john marshall precinct four i have an allington resident who would like to address the body regarding the override on her announcement unless he's announcing a meeting or something he is all right it's we don't want to have an override debate here though it's not a debate just a simple announcement of committees okay after this one though i don't want to have any more about the override my name is sean herrington i'm the secretary to the arlington coalition for responsible spending and i'm here to inform you that next thursday at the jefferson cutter house we will be having our first meeting to an anti override campaign for anyone that is interested all are welcome to attend if you wish to contact me i'll be here at the meeting for the rest of the meeting or you can contact me through joe marshall or some of the other town meeting members again the allington coalition for responsible spending will be starting its anti override campaign next thursday at the jefferson cutter house thank you thank you any other announcements resolutions hearing none seeing on hearing not okay article three is not before us any reports of committees miss miss roe mr moderator i move that the board of selectments report be received and the supplement also received thank you yes thank you for what a selectman reports is so received mr toasty i move that the reports of the finance committee be received the reports is so received mr foskett mr moderator i move that the report of the capital planning committee be received and i'd like to make a brief announcement sure i am going to be absent from the meeting on the monday may ninth and wednesday may 11 so at the opening of the special town meeting mr toasty is going to move that articles four and five of the special town meeting and that the capital budget article 57 be taken up on on may 16th and i just wanted to make that announcement in advance so the members would have some notice thank you thank you reports so received thank you mr moderator on behalf of the erlington redevelopment board i would ask that the annual report and the recommended votes of the erlington redevelopment board be received reports are so received i'm just going to remind everybody when you come to the microphone every single time name and precinct for the record even though gape knows us all we still have to get it for the for the tape thank you any other reports no other reports at this time miss roe yes mr moderator it's clewis a row precinct six i would like to introduce my colleagues on the board of selectmen on the far right kevin greeley to his left diane mohan to her left annie lecourt and her her left our newest member dandone um now it's usually a tradition of the uh chair of the board of selectmen to introduce the department heads i think that they can introduce themselves starting with mr marlinga over there would you just get up and and give your name and and for the new 10 meeting members what you do for the town please why don't we get the traveling microphone so they can pass it around great idea instead of everyone running back and forth thank you miss weaver weaver ed marlinga leal department workers compensation agent and benefits attorney christine connelly director of health and human services mary ellen loud library director i'm david good and i'm the chief technology officer michael burn director of inspection services for the client chief of police carol maloy personnel director bob jeffson phy chief mike rautemark a director of public works adam chaplain deputy town manager brian sullivan town manager mary kripalka board administrator to the buddha selectmen juliana rise town council altosti chair of the fincon the craning vice chair fincon trolley foske vice chair fincon ellen jones vice chair fincon gloria charcoal executive secretary finance committee carol kowalski director of planning and community development chris sepensky redevelopment authority andy west arlington redevelopment board mike care arlington redevelopment board bruce fitzman vice chair of the arby okay can we have a hand for all these wonderful people uh the finance committee reports are in the back hopefully everybody has one uh i just like to when we get closer into the uh excuse me financial articles i'll give the report of the uh finance committee and introduce my members of the committee i'd like to point out a couple of things that might be important for the discussion on wednesday on the uh resolution that the select committee put before you the finance committee uh tonight voted unanimously to support that resolution uh it means a great deal for the town on the last page of the finance committee report are all the at least on the town side all of the losses that you'll see in services and employment uh that we're going to be dealing with today and how important uh the speaker and the house ways and means committee uh proposed reforms are uh to this town uh let that i move that the recommended votes contained in the respective reports of the finance committee the board of select and the redevelopment board and other committees be before the uh meeting without further motion all in favor all in favor opposed so moved move that article three to be laid upon the table all in favor opposed article three is upon the table that brings us to article four appointment of the measure of wooden bark this is our last colonial lever appointment that the town meeting gets to make this is the person who goes out and measures your court of wood you know your court of bark if you think you're being shorted this row yes thank you thank you mr moderator um we would like to have a vote that the measure of wooden bark and um other usual town officers be appointed by the town meeting uh mr fits morris a long term um town meeting member is our commissioner of wooden bark measure of wooden bark do i have a second on that motion do i have any other appointments hearing all the appointments all in favor of appointing john fits morris measure of wooden bark please say yes opposed mr fits morris you're so appointed that brings us to article five the election of the assistant town moderator this is where we get to make a recommendation as who we would like to take my place if i'm not able to do it do i have any recommendations for appointments christine dashler precinct 19 i nominate jim connor any other nominations hearing all the nominations all in favor of jim o'connor being appointed assistant town moderator please say yes yes all opposed say no mr o'connor you are now the assistant town mod assistant town moderator congratulations article six we have the force to recommend a vote of the a rb for no action on the zoning map amendment i get that right yep so all in favor of no action please say yes yes all opposed so no action on number six that brings us to number seven zoning bylaw amendment allow cemetery use in open space districts mr west i'm andy west with the arlington redevelopment board introducing article seven to see if the town will vote to amend the zoning bylaw to allow cemetery use solely for cremated remains on land under the jurisdiction of the conservation commission the town cemeteries we understand are reaching their capacity this is an ongoing issue it's getting more critical our cemeteries are already providing what's called cremains cremated remains and that demand is expanding this zoning change would lead to some limited but much needed expansion for cremated remains only the arb was concerned in crafting this that the installations never became cemetery like never like a real some a regular cemetery no gravestones burial plots mausoleums no building structures crematory markers might be built into low walls or flat stone paving that would blend into the landscape you can see this in the article the verbiage in the article so these markers would be integrated into the landscape design a proposal would first have to be approved by the conservation commission and then by the arb so this goes to special permit permit process and we would make sure that in that process the special permit would make sure that it is appropriate and does not detract from the primary purpose which is the open space this zoning change addresses the shortage of burial space without detracting in any way to the quality of the town's open space it's a good idea the arb has voted unanimously for article seven mr schlickman paul schlickman precinct nine i rise in opposition to this article cemeteries my friends are forever if we make a mistake on any other zoning bylaw maybe in 50 years our mistake will be undone if we zone land for say a gas station where a gas station really doesn't belong and it's built and we rezone it it becomes a non-conforming use and eventually market forces will change that gas station into something else cemeteries are forever this is not a zoning change to be taken lightly you are in essence giving up in perpetuity your rights and responsibilities as a town meeting to decide where the town cemetery is because under this bylaw you are going to take appointed boards appointed by an appointed town manager with no accountability and with the potential of making substantive changes to arlington open space decisions that should be made by this meeting and not unelected boards under the terms of this bylaw it only affects land under the jurisdiction of the conservation commission well we could come back here next year and find 10.2 acres of mount gilboa cemetery we could find 12 acres of turkey hill cemetery we could find three acres of the cemetery at window on the mystic lakes we could find a one acre cemetery at the end of forestry down the winchester line and we could find a cemetery in the neighborhood park in my neighborhood in my precinct on my block which is now known as cook's hollow park i do not want to give up our right as a town meeting and our responsibility to our neighbors to make these decisions in this venue please vote down this article which takes away your ability to make a very vital decision about what's done because once there's a cemetery and what was once open space what was once conservation land ladies and gentlemen that's forever and there's no going back please vote this down thank you miss row you're next thank you Clarissa royal precincts six this is this warrant article is the result of many years of work it started as the conclusion of a two-year study on cemetery expansion needs in arlington we have less than six years of cemetery space left what we did for two years was look at the existing open spaces and decided that the one place that we could combine the uses was in cooks hollow the next couple of years that we worked on this was it was a joint effort of the board of selectmen the historic commission because it's adjacent to an historic neighborhood the conservation commission and the cemetery commission all of whom came together to present a design to the neighborhood we had two public meetings there was some opposition but overall the positive there were positive comments this is one step it's a technical step i don't really think that mr schlickman is informed about the process ac should be this was a joint effort of the historic commission the conservation commission and the cemetery commission so i urge you to vote in favor of this article thank you thank you this fiori elsey fiori precinct two and thank you mr schlickman you know exactly what you were talking about i rise particularly because cooks hollow is being targeted i'm reading from a book since i have every paper from day one when i started here it's the 1974 town report the conservation commission had a year of varied activities emphasizing concern for preservation of allenkins limited natural resources the millbrook hydrological and flood plain study jointly sponsored by the redevelopment board and the conservation commission and prepared prepared by the firm of c maguire was completed in 1974 during the year a great deal of time and effort was spent this is 1974 on the cooks hollow project phase two landscaping was completed in the spring of 1974 cooks hollow was dedicated at a public ceremony held on october 19th 1974 and a plaque was installed commemorating the dedication of cooks hollow pack there's more but the thing is the garden club was extremely active in getting this cooks hollow pack in place i found a list the other day but unfortunately it disappeared before my eyes listing all of the people who gave money to buy trees and plants and all different kinds of things to make cooks hollow a place where residents if they were walking down mystic street could sit down and rest they could enjoy the fuel wifes that might be going through and it was really a very nice place over the years unfortunately it hasn't been kept as well as it should have the preparation for it was enormous the the town wanted to put a community safety public building and housing and we had to shift some conservation land that we had we owned two little pieces we shifted them with other businesses so that our land got closer i informed cal kowalski the chairman of the well the redevelop the plan or i'm sorry that even in the today in the community safety building parking area there were really five spaces where the land belongs to the conservation commission and it's supposed to be for people who want to pack and come and visit the pack but it's taken up with fire trucks and other cars that pack in there because somebody put a wall across so nobody knows that it's connected to us there's a lot of work that needs to be done and and certainly blankly stating that we should be able to put cemetery uses in anything that belongs to conservation commission that's considered open space i will say as my peter brawn who was on the conservation commission as i was when cook's hall was put in place and uh door ryan gold who's deceased eric verrill and one other person uh he thinks it's a gross i spoke to peter brawn just before i came and he considers a gross misuse of conservation land to use it for these uh crema cremated remains and who's going to go and sit down and say isn't this a wonderful view let's keep it a very nice pack let's restore and keep the book the way it is and have it what it was intended to be in 1974 thank you very much thank you miss fiori mr laretti thank you mr marty chris laretti precinct seven um i appreciate mr schlickman's and miss fiori's comments but i think they're really overstating the case and i think it's important to keep in perspective where cemeteries all types of cemeteries can be put right now in fact cemeteries are allowed in the r zero in r one district that those these are zoning districts for single-family homes and they're also the districts the r ones district is commonly used for town-owned property mr schlickman seems afraid that uh appointed boards may allow cemeteries for cremated remains in the open space district um i'd like to inform him that under the existing bylaw these same boards could allow a cemetery in this town garden right next door here because that's in the r one zoning district so the controls that are in place here are really no different i'm sorry the controls that are being proposed under this bylaw change are no different than the controls that are currently in place for putting cemeteries in town-owned property uh as as it currently exists and in fact they're stricter because it's only land under the jurisdiction of the conservation commission in the open space district so there's that control it's not any land in the open space district even though most of that is most of it is under the jurisdiction of the conservation commission and it's only on town-owned land currently you could have cemeteries going into privately owned land with a special permit and so the purpose behind this um articles as was explained was to simply broaden the areas where these types of cemetery use and again again it's only for cremated remains might take place i would also remind town meeting members that about a dozen years ago there was no open space district most of those open space parcels were in the r one zoning district you could have put these types of crematoriums in there by special permit 12 years ago you could have put a regular cemetery in there with mausoleums 12 years ago this is actually a much stricter a much more carefully crafted um bylaw than what is currently in place for cemeteries thank you thank you mr. Laredi mr. maa uh john maa or uh precinct 14 i rise in strong support of the recommended vote of the redevelopment board this process has been indicated has been in the process for a long time the major boards have been involved conservation commission uh open i believe park commission and cemetery commission and they've all come to a conclusion that this is an appropriate way uh to make a small uh area available for cremains this is a restful area uh this is we're we're dealing with a real crisis with regard to our cemetery open space it has been indicated by mrs. Ralph that this uh our cemeteries are going to run out of space in six to seven years i just don't see what the big deal is it seems to me is a perfectly appropriate place to have cremains remember and a previous speaker spoke about well we're giving up authority to appoint officials i mean that's who runs the town i mean he was the these are the people who we trust to make informed decisions uh subject to some control by town meeting it's been indicated by time that previous speaker the town meeting is giving up this authority in fact that the authority is before you now to permit this use so i believe that in my view this is an appropriate way uh to begin to address in a tasteful manner uh our cemetery a lack of cemetery space and it's not as if it's going to be a helter skelter grouping of uh and taking over of that area it is subject to a special permit uh and the appropriate permit authority having been informed by the other boards about what their desires are i'm sure are going to do this in a tasteful manner again i heard strong support of the recommended vote of the redevelopment board thank you mr mr weddle thank you mr moderator uh bruce welltool precinct 12 i need to reintroduce myself to some of you i was a town meeting member here for many years i was a member of and chairman of the conservation commission uh at the time the top portion of mount gilboa was acquired uh i greatly respect mr schlickman and and this is fury but with that respect i think they are wrong we have trusted a great deal as mr marr points out uh to unelected appointed boards this town wouldn't run without them i can think of some other examples of uh non-elected boards making decisions with which i strongly disagree but i don't think this is one of them i i think the the redevelopment board has considered the matter carefully as mrs roe has pointed out and i have had occasion as a non no longer member of the conservation commission to attend their meetings over a prolonged period of time on another matter within the past year and in my opinion this town is exceptionally fortunate to have a conservation commission of the professionalism and caliber of that group so i i hope you will support the recommendation thank you mr well mr judd lineman judd precinct nine welcome back bruce long time no see uh i disagree with uh the last two speakers i agree with mr schlickman and mrs fury for a simple reason i don't have have no idea whether the cemetery commission has explored the possibility of expanding across into a garden place or garden street whatever it is called now going across the brook behind the uh very large brick building this would bring it into the area behind armstrong ambulance but further over there are businesses there but uh i would have to say what i've seen of them uh they're not brand new shiny bright buildings and i have no idea what they don't do or don't pay for any kind of taxes but i would look at it at least explore that first and see if that can be done secondly as far as cremated remains the military cemetery that is the national cemetery at cape cod has covered that long ago they build what they call a columbarium which is a wall with a series of compartments on it something like mailboxes but much larger and the uh cremated remains go in there the door is engraved with the person's name and whatever and apparently it seems to be quite satisfactory for burying any of our veterans so if it's good enough for the veterans i think it's good enough for me i think as i say we should see if we can expand anywhere around the present cemetery how much would it cost in fact as i can remember there was a property on uh mystic street right next to the brick building i referred to and uh for a while it was lying fallow and it was in bad condition that's when the town should have gone after it but some people don't think ahead that would have given us that much more space however as i say i do think because of the importance of this this is an open-ended zoning bylaw that means any open space i would rather have the town meeting our approval or disapproval of any specific space so that we'll know what is being planned where it's going to go and what the neighbors would think so i think we should put this to rest for the time being and hope that the cemetery commission and the other boards can at least follow some of my suggestions and maybe make it a little more clear that the town meeting which is the legislative body of this town should have at least a little more input i think than just saying okay do whatever that means we'll have to chase the politicians around or the appointed people to try to find out why they did this or that so i say a no vote on this is probably appropriate thank you very much mr roe i think mr roe had any answer to one of your questions about i did a point something else point of information um mr john um one of the things that the cemetery expansion commission looked at every piece of real estate in arlington including obviously the parcels of land that were immediately adjacent to the cemetery in fact um there were some overtures made to the different property owners before some of the improvements in that area were made like where our armstorm ambulances and the cost was prohibitive we couldn't come to any kind of agreement on a cost that they would be willing to pay for those spaces another point of information is that remains is the technical term for what we're talking about but it is it does include columbarium spaces it's but it's the technical term so that that's for your information thank you mr toasty now toasty precinct three by the way the finance committee has nothing to do with this if i'm speaking for the finance committee i'm at the central if i'm speaking for me i'm here i just have two questions uh and reading through all the materials uh whoever could answer this move from the development board are we talking about something where the ashes are directly interred into the soil and there might be a plaque at the beginning or the entrance that would say you know who is buried there and dates or are we talking about uh vessels being put into the ground with plaques on the ground so it really is the extension of a cemetery into conservation so i'm just trying to get a sense of what this is going to be thank you i'm carol kowalski and the director of planning and community development thank you time meeting members thank you mr moderator we have some slides if you'd bear with us while mr good if i could ask mr good to bring up the um there's a power point presentation with just four slides that i'd like to show you let me know if you need help finding that set of slides okay if you could please go to slide 24 this is a conceptual plan while the slides are coming up i think it's important to uh review that the genesis of this was a joint plan between the conservation commission and the cemetery commission it's mutually beneficial because we've heard that there is a crisis with trying to find cemetery space there's also quite a problem in trying to restore conservation land and to maintain the conservation land this would this plan that you're seeing here is a design that was created as a product of this joint effort which would include restoring the conservation values at cooks hollow in the course of implementing the cremains locations in low stone walls this is a site plan the next slide is slide 26 which shows the mystic street entryway and i'm showing you these to give you an idea of the flavor of what it would look like afterwards slide just two more slides slide 34 is a photo of how the proposed walls would appear with the cremains inside this very naturalistic stone walls these would be proposed throughout the site plan and this next slide 35 helps to answer that question too it's a drawing of some of the proposed a conceptual drawing of the low stone walls where the cremains would be so i think it helps to see this this is um this plan was produced and approved by both commissions but it couldn't possibly be implemented without adopting this amendment to the zoning bylaw thank you thank you just another point of information this was a joint effort of three commissions the conservation commission the cemetery commission and the historic commission the next person on this is rolling chapter thank you mr. moderator rolling chapter precinct 12 x ar beer and also x conservation commission member i was there back in 74 when we did all that work in fact the advocate took a picture of me in the middle of the stream with a clam digger cleaning it out my wife thinks i'm crazy one of the reasons i think this is a great idea and therefore i stand to support the recommendation of the arb's article is i want to be buried here now i can go to the cape if you're a veteran you can go to the cape you can fit our little box down there if you'd like i'd rather fit it in here i think would be great to be there listen to the water rushing by it's not that big a deal here we're not talking about huge walls and so you want to have a look at a nice column here and go to mount up and cemetery they're very nice i urge you to support this thank you mr. mccabe thank you mr. moderator harry mccabe preaching 21 unfortunately i have to disagree with my uh long-term uh fellow town meeting member elsie fury um elsie and i came into the meeting together 15 years ago and we've been here ever since but we're not going to be here forever i believe that tonight we're celebrating our 50th anniversary in the town meeting the problem before us really uh is not whether this particular location or that particular location should be a cemetery the problem is we need cemetery space we're desperate that is as a town we're desperate for cemetery space i would ask the opponents of this proposal where would they bury our dead and i believe that we do have an obligation to provide cemetery space i'm a member of the council in aging and have been for many years and have some knowledge of the senior citizen population in the town currently there's approximately 10 000 senior citizens in the town of allington and we haven't seen the new census yet but uh the the estimates that we're hearing is that there may be as many as 12 000 senior citizens in the town and we've been told that by 2015 25 percent of the residents of the town of allington will be senior citizens and like it or not uh death and taxes are always going to be with us and fortunately we have this good body here to deal with both of those questions so i i recommend strongly uh as a person who's been involved for many years to support this article i think the fear mongers uh wrong uh my experiences that if the town wishes to provide cemetery space somewhere else that they would have to come back here uh because there's always money involved and we not only uh control where the cemeteries will be we control uh the money and it's called the golden wall and that is he who got the gold rules that's us thank you mr mckay the gentleman in the center back behind mr judd yes sir okay i'll keep um mr smith dexman pleasing 17 i've got a very emotional feeling about cemeteries in general for a period of almost three years i worked in bosnia mostly in sarajevo shortly after the Balkan wars in which many hundreds of thousands of people were killed in many cities in bosnia and especially in sarajevo cemeteries were just built all over the place in town parks and everything mainly because there was a strong emotional feeling when a certain group of people were killed but it it made it sort of a blight on the whole town and really the whole country to see these all these scattered cemeteries you go up in the hillside and every way i looked is a cemetery in arlington i don't see that happening we don't have this much space available but here we've got three bodies that have looked into this and they seem to have done all that can be done i i doubt of town meeting would be in a position to do anything better as paul schlickman says they would have to approve it but i i think before they approve it they would again would be relying on these same bodies so i think we better do something now before we run out of space and because of this i think the present plan is what we need thank you thank you mr hannah bill hannah precinct two i have a couple of questions through the chair please number one how many uh places are there planned for in this particular place is kawalski do you have an answer even if it's a good estimate i don't and i i i have to say i'm carol koalski director of planning community development i don't have that number at my fingertips it is available on the design on the website and i think it may even be in the slide presentation however it i need to be clear to make a distinction between the bylaw amendment that's before town meeting is separate from the plan that's been put forth by the three commissions it is true that you can't implement that plan without the zoning bylaw change but the zoning bylaw change would not have the effect of making this automatic the plan whose slides you've seen would still require an application for a hearing for a special permit from the redevelopment board if this bylaw is approved okay my follow-up question with this even without this information is assuming that this is similar to a cemetery and i'm 65 and not making any direct plans right now but future plans of possibly purchasing something like this is it quite possible that this could be sold out before it's even produced thus bringing us back to the exact same problem we have at the beginning needing more space uh i am at the age where you do future planning no i can relate to you have to be deceased before you can apply for a plant plot if the cemetery commissions are miss rocots okay then i won't be planning on allington in the future then since i'm a veteran i'll i'll look forward to the cape then the short answer is yes of course it will absolutely uh any any any additional cemetery land or cemetery uh area would run out of space thank you mr berkowitz thanks mr moderator bill berkowitz precinct eight uh question just to clarify what we're voting on the slides that we saw and some of the discussion revolved around the cooks hollow plan but am i correct that what we're voting on is is to allow cremains and all open spaces not just cooks hollow we are voting in the recommended vote as in the a of d report on the article seven which is to amend the zoning by law article five section five point oh four table use et cetera et cetera et cetera not the plan the plan of pretty pictures they show us if we vote on this they may come back and ask for special permission sure thank you i am curious as to why we uh given this presentation why we were not asked to vote simply on the cooks hollow plan and that connection i think it's unfortunate that we don't have a figure uh on the number of cremains that the cooks hollow plan could hold so i do have some skepticism about approving a broad plan when uh when we might approve uh cremains at cooks hollow if we knew the details of how many cremains it would hold thank you um point of information Clarissa row precinct six unfortunately i think i'm the only one that's sat on this um project that's in town meeting i i believe and my memory is getting older as i reach um an older age i believe there's 76 units this the cooks hollow work was a feasibility study and the reason that we're here today is because we can't go into any kind of detailed design until this zoning bylaw is changed there are many many more pieces of this puzzle that need to be fixed and that's why the plan isn't being brought to you we would continue to have the involvement of the conservation commission the cemetery commission the historic commission and the redevelopment authority as the plan goes forward anything else mr berkowitz no okay um mr bear thank you mr moderator paul bear precinct 13 i have a couple of questions uh would people have to pay to have their cremains put here say that again sir would people have to pay to have their cremains put here yes sir yes and would that money be i assume that would go into the perpetual care fund of the cemetery yes and would that money be available for maintaining the whatever area might be used for this purpose yes that was the purpose that was one of the the reasons that this was thought about is that we would have perpetual care in an open space that doesn't didn't have a lot of maintenance as it was except for the good graces of roly chappan and the um garden committee garden club thank you thank you all right did you have your hand up sir yeah bill kaplan precinct six um it strikes me that our linkedin doesn't have a lot of open space uh and that people are going to continue dying and that we can cram cremains into little parks but eventually we're still going to run out of space and there is open space you know in the state of massachusetts and it it's i'm not quite clear on why everyone who dies in our linkedin has to stay in our linkedin uh and and and whether whether we might not be better served in in seeking other areas to uh to enter remains um i i mean at some point we could fill every nook and cranny with cremains but we're still going to run out of space did you want it the answer to that question you want to answer okay she'll she can give you one yeah i can give you one um we actually did live look in other communities for additional cemetery space i believe there is a cemetery that's not full in bedford that where it was right yeah and we contacted them to see if they were willing to accept um graves from marlington we also um looked very closely at buziform which as you know does not belong to us um but we we did um think about other open spaces and other surrounding communities to see if there was any way that we could buy something like buziform that could be used for cemetery use obviously that was not in the cards for us miss felps okay we have a motion to terminate debate on the question second okay all in favor of terminating debate please say yes yes all opposed say no my opinion it's a two-thirds vote debate is terminated we have done before so recommended vote of the island community development board on article seven all in favor please say yes yes all opposed say no no okay it's a uh zoning by-law so it has to be a two-third vote i couldn't tell because that wasn't unanimous so everybody in favor please rise um miss behind me you'll be our counter up front mr schlickman will you count for us yes mr mccabe we already terminated debate yeah it's terminated now we're voting on the article yes we are harry may i'm in blue in a purple shirt can you count for us you don't want to do it all right this is trembling um now i guess harry's going to count all right right miss mahan 12 up front mr schlickman 28 to the left my left mr trembling 24 24 my right center mr o'connor 32 32 mr mccabe 26 all opposed please rise miss mahan zero mr schlickman 18 mr o'connor 15 mr trembling 19 mr mccabe 15 15 it's defeated it's not a two-third vote it's 122 in the positive 67 in the negative so it doesn't make two-thirds we're not the english parliament we have now before it's article eight um it wait a second it's 9 30 what do you want mr judd mr rice that's a point of information actually thank you mr moderator juliana rice town council under state law it's two years before it can be resubmitted unless the redevelopment board is the town's planning board gives a positive report okay so it's like 9 24 so we're going to take our 10 minute break the only can high school girls softball club is out here selling goodies for us and we should all go out and help them out um they'll be there Wednesday night as well and also on Wednesday night the um they'll be selling out in the front hall veterans memorial Vietnam veterans memorial items i think to support the wall that was just here is that right yes okay okay seven please come to order let's go come on and sit down mr McKinney sit down okay we now have a force article eight of the redevelopment of the count of the warrant redevelopment board zoning bylaw amendment wireless communication facilities mr fitzins quiet mr fitzins has the floor mr gentlemen mr marky mr fitzins has the floor sir thank you mr moderator bruce fitzins member of the arlington redevelopment board um recommended vote of the arb on article eight would change the zoning bylaw by transferring jurisdiction for applications pertaining to the insert installation of wireless communication facilities from the arb to the zoning board of appeals under the current version of section 11.06 of the zoning bylaw wireless communication facilities are specifically listed as a use allowed by special permit subject to environmental design reviewed by the arb in practice the arb has found that many of the environmental design review criteria are simply not relevant to these types of applications for example there's very little if any reason to evaluate the effect of a wireless communication facility on traffic public utilities landscaping open space surface water drainage advertising micro climate or sustainability accordingly the review process is focused rather narrowly on aesthetic concerns such as matching the facility's paint color to blend in with that of the building on which the facilities are mounted are concealing the equipment in architectural elements since the arb has the ability to comment on special permit applications that are submitted to the zba the arb believes that it can still address concerns as to appearance by memorandum to the zba without requiring the applicant to go through the more demanding environmental design review process thank you thank you mr. Leonard thank you mr. moderator john lehnded precinct 17 with a question or two on this uh the redevelopment board was kind enough to send us out the literature about the standards that they were let's say holding the wireless people to i wonder if we're giving this over to the zoning board of appeals is there anybody from the zoning board that could elaborate a little bit on maybe what one or two or three of the requirements that they would ask for the wireless people to meet i'm not sure there any zoning board of appeals members here are they oh there you go can you answer this question well wait wait we need the microphone name precinct cam hi dale um precinct 18 and i'm here as a member of town meeting none as a member of the zba but we would look at um some of the same criteria in terms of protection of public health um some of the same criteria that they say are not relevant but we would look we would look at those things as well list if you want to know thank you no i was just mentioning that it was awful nice for the redevelopment board to say what standards they were talking about but i just wanted to make sure that because we were going to a different let's say committee or board we won't go away to the store here by lowering the standards that the wireless people would be meeting and as again i'd like to say something maybe later on down the line that would say the zoning board would request that the wireless people meet these particular standards before we would grant this special permit my second question is there was a lot of these wireless equipment being installed over the past couple of months in different companies is there anybody or any organization or committee that does a checks and balance after these are installed i guess my question is once these are put up on certain locations we tend to forget that they're there anymore is there anything that requires these people to come to us members of the town boards of the town and say we're making additions subtractions adding voltage making changes anything at all or until they just automatically do it because the thing has already been installed i believe if they're changing something they have to go to the building department for a permit is that true michael bern director of spectral services that that's true of any any changes to any of these facilities that reopen that special permit docket at a public hearing and discuss it with whatever but i guess if this goes through would be the zoning board how often would a wireless company after an installation actually come back to the town in regards to i mean i'm not asking for like a daily report but i'm asking in a sense that this is the notify you that we have done this we are thinking of doing that etc etc but it happens quite often that you know since obviously technology has advanced such over the last several years that they do change the amounts in the actual receptors and things um fairly often and then they would go back to the board and ask for permission for the aesthetics so i think primarily aesthetics is what it's looking for right so there is something that basically if they just took it upon themselves to do something they could for lack of a better word be sanctioned or something by saying you should have converted the town first correct yes yeah okay thank you thank you uh mr mccabe thank you mr moderator harry mccabe preaching 21 uh mr moderator i find the language under the word vote to be awkward and i'm not convinced that that would stand the test of bond council would you would you look at that real hard that the town vote should it say the town votes or should it say that the town does hereby vote or words of that effect i'm not convinced that it would stand up thank you well i don't think we have to go to bond council on the zoning bylaw amendment but miss rice is the word vote acceptable as opposed to the word votes what do we need to word hereby votes thank you mr moderator juliana rice town council um i think that uh the mr moderator can make an administrative change to add an s to votes um and that that would be sufficient to amend the bylaw okay that change is hereby made so i'll leave you right ask after the word vote thank you um woman over here in the green yep jenice broadman precinct 15 i have a question which is um there is increasing concern on the part of a lot of bodies of the health hazards of wireless uh antenna communications devices etc does the arb have the uh purview to look at health consequences potential health consequences and if so would the zoning board have the same ability to do that mr fit Simmons kind of think that question is a little outside the scope but i'll allow with most a quick answer in short the answer is no uh this is a matter of federal law and it's the FCC that would be looking at health hazards thank you um mr chappett thank you mr moderator rolling chamber precinct 12 and xrb arb member i had the good fortune to work with the above from the very beginning when uh cellular phone and antenna towers were being proposed my career was in the communications business i work at 25 years of Motorola so i had i knew enough to be dangerous let's put it that way anyway they uh quite commonly depended upon me to review proposals by various uh supplies of primarily cell phone services the towers are all over the place because they can increase the number of units they could be talking at the same time with more towers sometimes is to fill in a dead spot for example oven ellington heights if you're going through the heights you may not be able to get yourself going to work because the towers don't make it over the hill so it was beneficial that we had an opportunity to inquire from all of the potential service companies and there are half a dozen out there uh make sure that what they were doing was proper yes it was not unusual to make sure that they painted the the cell units the same colors of bricks for example so it'll be less obtrusive and whenever possible they put them up so that they didn't really show to the street as much as possible which were across on a hill from then you could see them of course there are even some communities before your information who actually insisted that cell phone antennas had to look like pine trees and unless you knew where to look you probably wouldn't see them so the situation has not changed in terms of whether the arb or the zoning board review board has to review those requirements i think what they're trying to tell you is there were some things in the standard procedures that just don't make a lot of sense for for them to review and it's time wasting and so the hope would be that once the social permit request is going through the zba that that will now speed it up they still would have the same requirements in terms of an expertise to provide a good answer to those whether they ask me or not is not important here but somebody has to be able to tell them with some professional expertise what is being proposed and will it work and is it not overkill the answer to question about a lot of the sites whenever we propose approved the project was not unusual for the for the service company to put up a system that might have had three times or four times as much space as was necessary the problem was once they put it up and the thing is constructed and they have to come back to the arb and get the approval to add another five stations or something that goes inside that building on a rack that powers already finished that was the reason and they're doing they did this because over the last 10 years everybody has a cell phone now but that wasn't true back in the early 70s and so they knew that there was going to be a demand for more of these wireless communications capabilities and so therefore they did build units but they were smart and so it wasn't here to be you find if you look you can find some of these station sites they're on our rooftop inside of a building that's all surrounded and it tries to match the decor of the building itself that was the reason we do it so this is a good idea I hope you support it thank you mr. chap mr. Judt I'm in Judt precinct nine permanent resident of Arlington born at sims hospital and I'm probably going to reside at Mount Pleasant eventually with maybe a one-year away at Harvard Medical School however on on this particular subject and I'm stand to be corrected it seems to me that a 10 or 15 years ago we had a problem with the zoning board of appeals because I believe some of the time they had difficulty getting a quorum in order to act and also that there seemed to be a lot of people applying for permits thought that it was taking a little too long I'm just hoping that this is not going to be overloading the zba probably not but as I say I just want to see if there's anybody remembers that same situation that I just alluded to nope okay thanks hey any any else wish to speak to the article oh peter I'm sorry mr. fury peter fury precinct two I think I remember and there are plenty of people here to correct me if I'm wrong but when we when we back in the 90s or whenever when we we passed the bylaws that addressed wireless facilities as a matter of public policy because they're a good source of revenue we were going to try to steer these sites to non-profits churches town buildings and so my question here is whether the redevelopment board isn't in a better position working with the town town planners to do that I don't I don't see that happening if all these wireless folks have to do is just go to zba for a permit and especially the time when revenue is tight I'm just I'm just wondering if that's possible as a matter of public policy to to try to steer them more towards town buildings by working with the redevelopment board so if I've made any sense can anybody answer that question Mr. Kowalski is the redevelopment board have such a policy well mr. Fitzsimmons can you answer your question I will attempt to answer your question I don't believe that the board to which one applies has any control over how the application or the applicant selects the property you're certainly right that non-profit organizations such as churches have made money leasing out bell towers and steeples to cell phone coverage providers and that the town has made money but I don't think that whether the zba is acting on the permits or the ARB would make any difference in terms of where the applicant goes and I have one more question is an applicant perhaps more likely to go to the town planner if they know they're going to have to go before the redevelopment board then then if they have to go before the zba in order to get the town planners input as to where a good location might be on special permit applications before the zba the planning department will often comment on those applications so I think in terms of the voice of the planning department again it doesn't really matter if one's applying to the zba or to the ARB you're going to get the input of the planning department thank you thank you anybody else we should address the article sir Mr. Macquarie huma quarry precinct 20 uh my understanding and what we were asked to vote here is we're dropping the bylaw uh based on uh for the permitting of these uh these communication facilities I'm not clear why can someone speak to me why we had the bylaw in the first place and why we're dropping it and I'm also not that familiar with the zba so I apologize for that my understanding is that it's a board of appeals for uh planning applications so I'm not quite following why uh so I guess it's really background why why we had the bylaw in the first place which may be a historical uh question and why we're dropping it okay so Proust why was there initially a special permit under the um ARB and now the ARB doesn't want to do this anyone wants the zba to do it thank you uh the original uh part of the bylaw that made this a special permit unto uh to the ARB uh actually predates my involvement in town government so I can't really answer that part of the question for you um but uh I would respond to the other part of your question I don't think that this is a matter where we're dropping the bylaw we're just transferring jurisdiction to the zoning board of appeals and the zoning board of appeals can currently hear special permit applications the difference between whether or not it's going to the zba or the ARB depends on whether there are a number of triggers some of them are geographic some of them are the uh the type of building the size of the building uh in general larger um property developments on Massachusetts Avenue and Broadway and Pleasant Street are going to the ARB others would go to the zoning board of appeals what's different in the two applications is the environmental design review that you'll see in section 11.06 of the bylaw it's a much more involved special permit application if you're going to the ARB for environmental design review something further Miss McCoy so uh we're not um we're not dropping the bylaw but we're amending it by dropping a subsection of the bylaw is that correct true correct yes okay thank you thank you anything else anyone else wish to speak okay we have for us to recommend vote the ARB is printed in your um recommended report all in favor please say yes yes post say no okay okay two-thirds vote all in favor please stand same tellers just behind 12 up front well mr schlickman 37 37 to my left mr connor 44 44 left center mr trembling 34 34 right center mr mckay 41 okay all in favor all opposed please rise zero zero zero four this is okay zero zero 168 in the positive four and the negative passes brings us to article nine zoning bylaw amendment minimum lock size mr vitzemens thank you mr moderator bruce vitzemens aov the recommended vote on article nine would change the zoning bylaw to make section 6.06 of the zoning bylaw pertaining to new construction on grandfathered locks more closely resemble the relevant portion of state law this is a very technical amendment i apologize to you in advance for having to read more than you might want me to just at the outset for those of you who may not take the zoning bylaw has your nighttime reading article six sets forth dimensional and density regulations where whereas article nine pertains to non-conforming uses structures and lots for the most part these are very separate matters but in some ways there is some overlap and confusion that would result from the overlap the purpose of this article is to remove one example of that confusion the proposed amendment to section 6.06 would strike the second sentence that pertains to reconstructing a house on an undersized lot and limit section 6.06 to undersized lots that have never been built upon if you're wondering what to do about reconstructing a house on an undersized lot that's where you look to article nine so what we're doing is we're restricting article six to only instances where the lot has not been built on previously has revised section 6.06 would allow a new construction of one and two family residential dwellings on lots in existence as of 1924 provided that the new dwellings meet certain requirements three of those requirements are already in section 6.06 namely that the lot must have at least 5,000 square excuse me 50,000 square feet of land must have 5,000 I was right the first side thank you let me think this is Winchester that'd be a wrap let's try that again 5,000 square feet of land it must have 50 feet of frontage and it must meet Arlington's open space requirements this article would add one new requirement and modify an existing requirement the new requirement would be that the undersized lot must not have been held in common ownership that's coming directly from chapter 40a section 6 and that it would need to meet the dimensional requirements under the 1975 zoning bylaw what we're taking out is that seven and a half foot or the greater the seven and a half foot or 15% of frontage setback requirement that's actually in the 1975 bylaw what we're doing is we're saying it's not just one dimensional requirement that would need to be met you have to meet the requirements of the 1975 bylaw all of them so in summary the point of this article is not to deprive applicants of the ability to reconstruct existing structures on undersized lots but to more clearly direct them to the provisions of article 9 and to narrow the focus of article 6 to undeveloped undersized lots in a way that more closely conforms to state zoning bylaw thank you Mr. Jamison Gordon Jamison precinct 12 I think I understand this but actually my half block provides several examples that I'd like some responses to if possible Ms. Moriterator so there's a nice elderly woman who lives across the street who is retired and I'm pretty sure that her lot is like 40 frontage at 4000 something like that and so what I heard was that if her house were to for someone I'm not wishing this on her she's an such a sweet woman if her house were need for it were need to be rebuilt or someone moved in there and wished to rebuild it that would be okay under these changes fit sentence that would be addressed pursuit to article 9 in my opinion that would be okay but that requirements under article 9 I also have several neighbors it turns out that have vacant unbuildable lots contigent contiguous to their lot upon which they have their primary abode single family home and if I understand this correctly if those those lots were large enough to meet this requirement they could now be built on or the or the contiguous space even if registered with the assessor as a separate piece of land would prevent building if it were an undersized lot if it was an undersized lot I think it probably wouldn't be able to be built but if it was contiguous to an existing home owned by the same owners and it was made this 50 and 5000 would that be buildable if I understand the question correctly if it's a if it's held in common ownership it would not be entitled to be okay so in words if same people own it then they can't do that that's correct okay and then it turns out that the house I live in was originally in the middle of three forty foot four thousand square foot parcels which were the old zoning in the heights portion that I live up near Brackett school the builder purchased my house moved it over and subdivided the land into 60 by six thousand square foot which I believe is the current requirement would that still be able to be done that would be done be able to be done because that would be has a right because they're meeting okay this has been very helpful to understand the the different things so that someone can rebuild the under the non-conforming or lots even with this size that are owned by the same owner could not be built unless they were the 60 to 6000 and then the subdivision problem that allows me to live in my house and someone to have a nicer house next door could still be done thank you thank you the climate thank you mr. Marley store climb in precent one it was just mentioned about a seven and a half foot setback my memory serves me right we as a town meeting enacted a 20 foot setback as a requirement a few years back how does this article affect that because it seems that seven and a half foot would supersede the 20 foot this article would have no effect on many 20 foot setback we were only talking about if you have you'd still have to comply with the 1975 zoning bylaw requirement that requirement has with respect to side yard setbacks the greater of seven and a half feet or 15 percent of the frontage as your side yard setback okay so the seven and a half foot is side not front is that correct on the side yes thank you okay okay pushing 21 same question in the first sentence I think if we add an s to the word vote we'll we'll fix that administrative changes here by me right and I think the next article is the same article 10 the same thank you I'll make that administrative article thank you and I'll scold them next year don't do it again mr. Rodman make him snook a point that out Janice Rodman precinct precinct 15 um I also have a question so if um if I if a parcel is has been built on there's a structure there but someone wanted to let's say widen the drive way make some other change within that parcel is that is the ability to do that changed by this article in other words if you're going to make a change and it's it's outside of the structure because as I understand the article as long as you're staying within the structure is really not changed but if you wanted to change something outside let's say someone had a garden and they decided to take a foot of that garden and widen their driveway would that be created by this mr. Simmons no this article they have no effect on widening your driveway or moving taking a look from your garden thank you okay anybody else we should speak to the article mr. lineman jet lineman jet precinct nine I wonder if the redevelopment board as a ballpark figure of how many lots would be affected by this and as up to this point has it been a potential problem I know that more than a few times developers have found some new poles somewhere to get around that's why we have a couple of houses but in the middle of a what was our right of way for a street so I'm just wondering if you have an idea of how much effect this will have on the whole town or any particular neighborhood this class could you have an estimate of the number of lots this will actually affect carol kawalski director of planning community development the short answer is no we don't have the redevelopment board or the planning department has a total number of non-conforming lots unbuilt in early to develop really do you know that no one seems to know your answer okay this gentleman back here standing next to the gentleman with the mic yeah Kevin Mills precinct one I'm wondering if there'll be any grace period if this is passed I think it'll take effect upon passage her troop will hold so it'll take effect upon passage and approval by the state would there be any grace period following thank you mr. moderator juliana wristown council zoning bylaw changes take effect the date they are advertised so actually it already has taken effect although there is a five-year grace period in the state law that would apply only to lots of 7500 square feet or larger it would not apply to lots between 5000 7500 square feet thank you anyone else wish to speak to the article seeing none ready for a vote zoning bylaw you have two-thirds vote all in favor please say yes yes all opposed say no no you don't all in favor please rise sand tellers mr. Hahn 10 up front 10 mr. schlickman 33 my left 33 mr. corner 44 left center mr. trembling 37 right center mr. mccain 40 40 on the right all opposed please rise two you're up front mr. schlickman four left four mr. trembling zero mr. corner mr. trembling three mr. mccain three three 166 in the affirmative 12 and negative its passes that brings us to article 10 so any bylaw amendment flood plain district inland zoop wetland going to change the flood plains mr. Fitzsimmons thank you mr. moderator article 10 is really designed to economize the process for an applicant who would be before the ARB and a special permit with environmental design review and whose project will have an impact on flood plain districts or inland wetland districts under the current version of sections 11.04 and 11.05 the zoning board of appeals has exclusive jurisdiction for hearing applications for special permits involving flood plains and wetlands this is the case even if the applicant is before the ARB with respect to every other aspect of their proposal what we're trying to do here is to save the applicant from having to go back and forth between two boards on essentially the same project this in some ways we believe is a housekeeping type of measure designed to give the applicant the ability to focus all their arguments up to one form instead of going back and forth. Mr. mccain. Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak to this article? Ms. Fiori. Elsie Fiori, precinct 2. I'm sorry I didn't really have time to read this article but I'm confused where does the conservation commission on wetlands hearings come in on this or do they? Does this affect the conservation commissions right to hear these kind of issues? It does not so they would still need to go before the conservation commission. Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak to the article? Mr. Judd. No you have to wait. Now I'm in Judd precinct 9 to follow up on Mr. McCabe if we need to correctly phrase this right now it says to see if the town will vote to amend should the ward will be removed? No no no that's the best warrant you're looking at the recommended vote printed in the ARB report which reads that the town votes to amend. Don't look at the warrant look at the recommended vote in the report. That's what I'm looking at. That's what I'm looking at here sir. Can't be. To see if the town will vote because we added the S to amend. The town votes. Oh okay thank you. Look down further down it says vote. I think you're living with the wrong thing buddy. Anyone else wish to speak to the article? Okay. Zoning Violary amendment to third vote. All in favor please say yes. Yes. All opposed say no. Okay okay. Standing vote once again. 12 up front. Mr. Schlichman reports 12. Mr. Schlichman 35 on the left. 44 left center. 38 right center. Mr. McCabe 38. Okay all opposed please rise. Mr. Mahan 0. Mr. Schlichman 0. Mr. Connor 0. Mr. Tremblay 1. Mr. McCabe 0. Oh Mr. McCabe you're going way in the back there. I believe you. Thank you. We're going to count them. 167 to turn. It passes. That ends article 10. Now we go to article 11. Zoning Violary amendment flood planes protection. What I can tell is substituting one set of words for another. Is that about it? Ms. Kowalski. Thank you Mr. Moderator. I'm Carol Kowalski, Director of Planning and Community Development. Yes this warrant article would restore to the bylaw a very clear prohibition against construction in the flood plain that existed in our bylaw until last town meeting. Last year at town meeting town meeting was asked to adopt the new flood insurance rate maps and in the process the state provided us with a model bylaw for doing that and it wasn't considered that by adding some of their text it was creating a little bit of a gray area and an internal inconsistency that could have been interpreted as allowing construction of the floodway under certain conditions which it does not. So you'll see that we're changing this vote would change the reference to the maps used to the flood insurance rate maps and it would delete a section that created this internal inconsistency. Thank you. Anybody have any questions regarding this? Yes we're going to make that administrative that section it doesn't say the word votes on this one so we don't have to change it. Anybody wish to speak to this article? Yeah look dude if you want to talk you got to stand up and introduce yourself you can't just yell. It's not the same time. On page 10 when you go down after the initial two paragraphs the next thing says vote colon and that section that it doesn't say voted that the town is does or didn't. Doesn't need to. Mr. Rice can you elucidate further? On the correctness of the vote. Thank you Mr. moderator. Juliana Ries Town Council. I happen to have written this one so this one is perfect. Thank you. I'm hoping that that will stand up and court. Mr. Smith. Scott Smith precinct five is a quick question firms is an acronym is that an acronym or was it me? Yeah what does firms mean? Thank you Mr. moderator Juliana Ries Town Council. Firm stands for flood insurance rate map and it is defined earlier in the existing bylaw I believe. Yes. You answer your question? Okay anybody else wish to speak to the article? Seeing none we have a force recommended vote of the ARB is printed in their report all in favor please say yes. Yes. All opposed say no. All ready. Everybody stand up once the vote for it. All in favor please rise. Ms. Mahan 12 up front and favor. Mr. Schlickman 34 to the left. Mr. O'Connor 44 Mr. Trembly 40 40 to the right center Mr. McCabe 41 all opposed please rise and be one. Jill Jill Jill Mr. McCabe one passes by a whole bunch to one that's kind of it well 34 44 40 171 to one okay that brings us to article 12 Zoni bylaw wetlian and floodplain overlay map we found a new pond we did like care and hold on a second we're going to administratively add the s I would also like to say that you're quickly that is right we involved in every single one of the votes something that time meeting runs into from time to time and what it is is it's adding the purpose of the warrant article was to add two properties to the wetland flood plain overlay and the two properties were Ryderbrook behind 15 Ryder street and the wetland and screen behind 86 Coolidge Road this was submitted by the conservation committee they had designated these two parcels as known wetlands that already meet the state standards on the overlay map it had come to the inclusion of the known wetlands on the overlay serves to alert the public and the building inspector to the presence of the protective wetlands it has since come to the attention of the art since the article was put forth that Ryder street was actually included in the 2004 vote of town meeting it but was subsequently and inadvertently not added to the map so that will be done and therefore Ryder street the parcel behind 15 Ryder Street is no longer included in the arts recommended vote 86 Coolidge Road does have as you can see a stream running down to it or through it right down to that little pond right there known wetland and we would wish to put it on the map as as documented in the map that's in the uh it is in the recommended vote and that's it Mr. Schlickman Paul Schlickman precinct nine do the owners of the sake property know that we're talking about from tonight the answer is I don't know um the fact is is that this does not change any of the responsibilities that a landowner has to its property before anything else it's simply designated on the map a known level um the the price of responsibilities of the property owner is not any way to change by the fact that he's put on the map and to answer your question they have wanted to do more than $1,000 if they need it that's what we sent them to do the first person to 12 and the abutting property owner to the property in question the moderator gave the correct answer yes everyone knows about it thank you as well Mr. Jarrett well I'm going to appreciate nine it seems to me that establishing this flood area or a pond whatever it is could affect what the property owner could do with the property if I'm not mistaken because I believe say the commerce conservation commission and others could uh go to court against him and say that he is violating the flood plan I could be wrong on this but there have been many cases throughout the united states where a snail darker puts something completely out of control and stopped the federal project so some good dark and ruin his day can you answer his question I'm not sure if it's alamander known wetland on the map does not change the rights or responsibilities of that property owner at all it simply puts it on the map thank you I'm not trying to prove it Mr. moderator but experience is not a stroke but misrights please it says that the town votes to amend aren't we supposed to have consistency because all of these articles have to go before the attorney general's office for approval and I don't know if they would be upset by not having the same enabling words I think we all know what is intended by these articles but if we need to conform to a specific format to get these approved by the state I don't know if we have to do this or not we work either way misrights thank you Mr. moderator Juliana rice town council in my defense I didn't write this one but yeah it would work either way thank you um mr. Weddle second time yes bruce well till precinct 12 second time um in answer to mr. Judd's question the the property owners went before the conservation commission um a year ago and had an environmental consultant that produced a very thick and thorough study no endangered species were found or listed in the in the consultant's report they are not endangered their wallets maybe thank you mr. Smith Dick Smith precinct 17 mr. moderator you agreed to make administrative corrections to all of the articles except the perfect one was prepared by the town council could you also make an administrative change to all of the other articles to bring them into the same format as the article drafted by the town council so there was an internal there was internal consistency and there would be no change in the meaning no basically we would have to be rewritten in order to become to the same format and i'm not going to sit here and rewrite all of these articles right now on the fly this rice's opinion is that they will all pass state muster and they're good as they are as long as we have that s mr. schlickman you want to say something for a second time paul schlickman precinct nine motion to terminate debate on all matters under this article okay all in favor terminating debate please say yes all opposed say no nope it is terminated okay we have the force of recommended vote of the arv is printed in the report with the administrator yes all in favor please rise i'm going to have your eyes because someone's going to say no miss mahan well mr schlickman 30 30 to the left 44 left center thank you mr punn mr trembly 39 right center mr mckay 42 on the right okay all all opposed please rise no that's okay i'll look foolish all right 167 the affirmative zero negative it's unanimous vote we've got a nice counted vote on many ways all righty yep yes sir precinct two uh i'd like to i don't know the proper procedure but i'd like to take article 22 out of order and present it next please um i'm going to ask you not to do that for one reason the town meeting procedure committee is meeting thursday on this article to give you our recommended vote we have an internal debate going whether or not the wording here will pass muster with the ag and we want to finalize that before we present we're gonna go with what the board of select men wrote or a little bit different language where it has to do with how the original bylaws was passed that allowed me to declare a unanimous vote and we want to be able to make sure it works but i appreciate your i will withdraw it thank you thank you my purpose to your eyes mr mckay the microphone's right there i think we have kind of a stereotypical system here does do you know the meaning of the word stereotypical sir we're not going to debate that they did that essentially either or what is your point sir my point is it doesn't seem like we have any directions to go in there are many people who don't vote sometimes that's their own cognitive weird they they know they're very smart people who do very good research but oftentimes they don't understand things one man told me that only a small percentage of people really knew what was going on and that that's the way it always is that is the way i think it always is have a good day everyone has a right to speak i asked them to speak they don't want to speak that's their that's their prerogative if they don't ask a question we can't answer it so we're going from number one to number seventy six that's the route we're going so i'm not sure what you're talking about so we're on number 13 arb recommended vote no action all in favor no action please say yes yes no action number 14 dude it's no action article 14 zoning bylaw amendment affordable housing requirements definition of units just to fit Simmons thank you mr moderator bruce fit Simmons arb article 14 was one of a trio of articles submitted at the request of a town manager we believe that we have wrapped all three of those articles into one and that article 14 is the one what this would do essentially is to remove assisted housing living facilities from affordable housing requirements it has come to our attention that assisted living uh it typically combines the cost of housing and the cost of care in a way that is such that you can't unscramble the egg and break them apart easily so what we would be requiring the developer who is proposing assisted living to do would be to be subsidizing the care element in addition to the housing element um and under our current zoning bylaw we feel that if we did not provide relief in this area assisted living facilities simply would not be built thank you anyone wish to address the article anyone have any questions okay all in favor please say yes yes all opposed say no see unanimous vote and so declare it our brings us to article 15 recommended vote of the ARB is no action no subs any substitutes seeing none all in favor of no action please say yes all opposed say no no action article 16 recommend vote of the ARB is no action any substitutes seeing none all in favor of no action please say yes all opposed say no no action article 17 zoning bylaw amendment outdoor advertising at pierce field who's going to speak to this okay um might care our linkedin redevelopment board um article 17 uh the purpose of this warrant article is to allow temporary signs at the high school athletic fields to raise additional funds for the schools um after long after very careful consideration we have come up with a bylaw that we think addresses um what's required for the signs to be placed uh at the pierce fields area uh what you'll see is that the signs um that we are looking to um we are looking to have the the school department uh approach us for a uh signage plan uh for the area that would need a special permit um the signs would be required to have uh the graphical symbol of the high school being sponsored as well as it could have either the name or the uh trademark of the sponsor um we would uh approve the signage plan applications to ensure the overall design of the signs to be um put forth in the plan and um to make sure that it meets the standards that we've we've set for the special permit process this article was uh put forth by a 10 registered voter initiative um it has the unanimous support of the athletic advisory committee uh uh of the school athletic advisory committee and it also has the support of the school committee um the school committee will be in charge i'm sorry the school department uh either through the superintendent of the school committee will be in charge of coming up with the guidelines for the signs but we expect them to be very limited in scope with the with the graphical name of the high school as well as either the name or the trademark of the sponsor so we believe this is a good bylaw um to help in the in the current situation and i think as a board we believe that it's nothing that other areas are doing at their own fields so mr lennard thank you mr moderator john lennard precinct 17 i'm curious about these signs in regards to when and if damage was done to the sign whose responsibility would it be to repair it and second part of the question is we all know about tagging in the town what's going to be the decision made in regards to tagging does the person responsible for the sign have a certain period of time to replace that sign after it's been tagged sir so with oh sorry my care are linked to me development board um so in respect of the signs themselves i should have also mentioned that the temporary nature of the signs is around the fact that they will be more focused on the seasons where play will happen down there so they're going to have they're going to be up between march 15th and december 1st of each calendar year so from what you were talking about with respect to tagging and the like there's no difference with these signs than any other signs that are in town if something gets tagged it's going to be subject to the different requirements of removal of graffiti etc by the by the by the by the governing board which i guess would be the school department in this case what i'm getting at is that if i'm not mistaken if a place in allenton is tagged i think we passed the requirement that said they had a certain period of time in order to replace that tagging eliminated painted over or whatever or they would face some kind of a fine i'm wondering if joe's hardware puts up a sign down here in that sign gets tagged see in the middle of the night or something is joe's hardware responsible to replace that with a brand new sign or does somebody commit and say don't worry about it it's all covered under this particular article i think mr selvin wants to answer that question yes the bylaw provides that the owner of the property is responsible for removing the tagging in this case it would be the town responsible for that so whether it's a plain fence out there or happens to be advertising on the fence it would be the town's responsibility to remove that tagging so again the town would be under the requirement to fulfill the certain period of time i'm not sure what the time is but the tagging or the sign would have to be replaced correct and it would be at the sound expense yes thank you thank you mr liner mr strifell weeba hi i'm precinct 11 i rise in support of this article as both a town meeting member and a school committee member this is something a lot of other communities have invested in as a way of invigorating funding into their athletic departments in addition they would be the signage that we've been looking at would be tasteful it would emphasize the high school athletic program with the advertisers name as a secondary component and the school committee and the school department is committed to supporting this and keeping it part of the arlington beautification process so we see it as a visual asset to the field in addition to a financial asset to our sporting teams thank you thank you the woman in the back yeah that mic sounds funny this is from work oh yes now it's functioning i just wanted to note panheidele precinct 18 i just wanted to note that a proposal was before the arlington zoning board of appeals um last month and the zoning board of appeals did uh vote approval um but all that aside i just was wondering is it spot zoning to designate um just signs and i'm i'm for raising money don't don't get me wrong but is it spot zoning to designate signs in just one specific area this rice do you care to apply thank you mr moderator juliana rice town council i wasn't asked for my input on this draft bylaw and i actually see a number of potential problems with it um the i the concept of spot zoning being one of them it may be that it could be argued that it's really just an exemption of a town instrumentality from the town zoning bylaw but generally zoning bylaws are done by district sign bylaws do not have to be in the zoning bylaw but in arlington they are and generally uh zoning is done by district not by property so i would say that's a potential issue i don't know if the attorney general would reject the the zoning bylaw on that ground thank you mr good my name is david good i'm my town meeting member from precinct 13 i'm the secretary of the uh arlington athletic advisory committee so i'm not sure which podium i should speak to you at if i'm the cto i'll be over there if i'm a town meeting member i'll be here i'll go over there if i'm the secretary of the advisory committee but the three of us will stay right here for now i'd like to rise in support of this article the advisory committee is a sponsored committee of the arlington school committee and we've been working together for the past three or four months to look for solutions uh to offset athletic fees you know the athletic budget is a half a million dollars which is passed to the parents uh in the form of a fee and uh our goal uh as as as committee members and the school committee is to make sure that every uh high school student in the town uh in the arlington high school uh can participate uh in a sport uh whether it be into mural or or vassity jv and and not be burdened uh with uh the inability to raise money and and and actually uh have that be a detriment to the the individual um the the article talks about uh tasteful signs and and i think that this is the key we're not looking to make this bill board haven uh they we were in the process of interviewing vendors uh we're we're writing an rfp uh to include both language of the zoning board of appeals and the redevelopment board and uh we have uh made it a very very high priority to make sure that um this does not become uh untasteful or mismanaged uh our goal is is to have um once we choose a vendor which would be to have that vendor be responsible for maintenance upkeep actually installing the uh the banners etc so uh thanks very much for your time i just would like your support on this article thank you thank you mr good mr schlickman paul schlickman prec nine if i may ask the town council through you mr moderator if uh she had a couple of days and we voted this on wednesday would she be able to write this in a manner which would make it more survivable at the attorney general mr rice thank you mr moderator juliana rise town council i'm not sure how to answer that question because i haven't been asked to do that um what's before town town meeting is the redevelopment board's request for a particular vote i would do it differently that's an interesting answer i'm not sure if i'd move to postpone or to adjourn and let's see if something might happen that would be a little more survivable uh do you have an opinion mr moderator of which motion you'd like me to offer i have seven good minutes left i'm motion to postpone this article to time certain wednesday no because if we're coming up with a substitute okay then we have to go i'm okay then i will move to postpone this article for time certain next monday okay second second okay all in favor postponing this till next monday please say yes opposed say no okay it is postponed all right the motion to adjourn all in favor opposed no oh gee whiz all right we're gonna waste five minutes every night we'll be here forever we'll see you on wednesday and by the way we are governed by town meeting time if anyone wants a copy bring a check for $25 made out to mass moderates association next monday mass moderates association 25 bucks thank you see you on wednesday