 Welcome to this film screen, organised by the Centre of Tower Studies, together with full loads and so on. Tonight, we have a very, very special guest, the film producer, Taito'n Llywodraeth, who is from Togdon University in Jani. I wanted to invite Taito'n Llywodraeth to show us for a long time. He is an award winning documentary maker and he makes films that look at the dark side of Taiwan, about Taiwanese that have fallen through the net in Taiwan's economic miracle. I first became aware of his work when I was researching migration to and from Taiwan. He has looked at overseas bribes in Taiwan in his films. He has looked at industrial poisoning and one of the films is also going to be showing a film tomorrow at Surrey on migration to and from Taiwan. If you do enjoy this film, I also would encourage you to take the chance to watch the film in Surrey. Another thing I think is really special about tonight is this is a co-organised event. It's the first time that we've worked together with Formosa and so on. In many ways we couldn't have put this event together without this group. I first heard that Taito'n Llywodraeth was going to be in London. I didn't think we would actually be able to bring in to so on. But one of the Formosa's team met him and interviewed him in Taipei. In a matter of minutes we set up this session which really shows you how efficient this group of idealistic students are. One of the things that we've been trying to do with SOAS over the last couple of years is to look at social movements in Taiwan. In SOAS we ran a conference on Taiwanese social movements and we ran a round table I think in this room on the Sunflower movement. So I was really delighted that we could actually continue this theme by having the first European screen of this film. We put this event together in very, very short notice. I think only a few weeks. So I hope you can understand that we don't have an ideal cinema setting. But this was the best we could do in just a few weeks. But I think that the film is so special but I think it's worth it. What we're going to do next, I'm going to let the Formosa's along. I'm going to tell you a little bit about their project. And also after that director Tai will talk a little bit about the film. We'll also have a reception afterwards. So don't kind of rush off. We'll take you up to the reception at the end. And we'll also have time for a Q&A as well. So over to you, Ytria. Hi, thank you all for coming. On behalf of Formosa's along I'd like to thank especially Dr Duffy Fyo from the SOAS Chinese Study Centre. For co-hosting this event and providing this fantastic venue in just a few weeks. And the other thing I want to thank is the University of Surrey and Xiehaidang, one of our members in Taiwan who actually invited director Tai here. So I think it's a fantastic opportunity to kind of review and reflect on the sunflower movement and see where it is to. And I think that's something we can really think about. And lastly a special thanks to Oliver Tears from Formosa's along to help out to make this happen. And Formosa's along is actually a group of mostly students dedicated to engage times people in London to kind of discuss the public issues in Taiwan. We organize talks and workshops regularly to discuss the public issues in Taiwan. And the members of Formosa's along actually come from all kinds of backgrounds. So you get views from, viewpoints from diverse backgrounds. So if you're interested you're welcome to join. And we will have a workshop on regeneration issues in Taiwan this Friday on the 21st. It will be in UCL from 6.30 to 9.30. And more details will be on the flyers on the desk that some of you might have it. And if you want more information you're welcome to check us out on Facebook and there will be more information. Just enjoy the film and if you have any questions you can approach me and ask me. Thank you. OK. So he is our producer, Chan Xiong Luo. Yay! Oh well, it's great to see you guys. It's actually a great turnout and he's very pleased. And of course he felt he's more expressive and can be more articulate if he talks about the film in Chinese. So there you go. So I'm the one you have to tolerate. Oh, because I came from Taiwan to Serene's side and today I came to London. So I think I'm still in the GENDAG. So when night comes, I'll start talking like this. So if you say that some things might be more slow so after the film is over, everyone will have a question. So this will stimulate my spirit. It will be better than a better version. Thank you. I have just landed here. I arrived two days ago. So I'm still suffering from jet lag. You can imagine that I'm a little bit not with it. However, he hopes that whatever question you raise can stimulate his brain and later he will try to answer your questions. We have two hours left. So I'll just end at two o'clock and then we'll look at the film. The first point is first of all, I want to tell my friends that when he's done this film don't expect that this is a very complete, a historical work, a film. It's basically the sunflowers' movement in the process of making the decision and then we started to make a record. So if he's making a film, although he's done it for two hours, he has nine elements. Nine short films and then he has short films. The short films are the same. There are some short films or there are some scenes that everyone will be a little disappointed because we have nine directors who are doing different themes at the same time and then combining them. So the first thing I want to emphasize is that when everyone is watching there is a preparation that this is not a historical work of the sunflowers' movement. It may be if you are looking for a very complete and then his film understands the sunflowers' movement then maybe don't expect that. Before we see the film I would like to draw your attention that please do not expect to see a complete picture of this particular movement. It is not their intention because originally the decision to make a film was in the process of the movement so it's not something that they have a long-term planning and also there are nine different themes which difference in length so it's in total that it's about almost 120 minutes it's 119 and a bit minutes so it's two hours of film and please bear with them because sometimes nine different people working together they are actually filming the same movement so sometimes you might see something overlap or repeating themselves or in some way but actually they have different themes and if there's any ruptures or some repetitiveness or you need to bear that in mind it's nine different people's work combined together so it's not a complete work but not an epic. Let's get right to the next question. Okay. There's one more thing I'd like to mention is that our nine themes are more like nine films or the nine aspects of this movement. I would like to take this film and then let you know about the big picture of this movement. But the important thing is that there's no expectation that this film will make any conclusion to Taiwan's movement or that it will be like a judgement or that the film will have a definition of how Taiwan's movement is. We'd like to say that this film can be made to Taiwan's Taiwan's movement with more understanding and more dialogue. I hope that this film can trigger the image of rational thinking in this film. This is our biggest expectation. So I'm looking forward to the discussion in the future. I hope that everyone will try to not to be too polite. I want to think about different views on this film and different opinions. Thank you. So these three short films are actually like three pieces of jigsaws. So it is up to you to put them together. It's not something they want to draw the conclusion for you. It is actually not their intention to give a verdict of this particular movement. It is your decision. What they wanted to do is to improve the understanding or at least provide you some sort of opportunity to look at this particular movement through their visual representation and providing some sort of dialogue that you can actually have the platform to negotiate and understand. So for him, the Q&A is the most important bit of this tonight's event because he said do not hold back. Just tell me what you think and even you don't agree you're welcome to we can have a rational debate and discussion. I'm going to start. I'm sure you have a lot of questions but let me first one thing I've really been dying to ask here could you say a little bit about firstly about how the film was funded and also about how you brought all the various parts together because if there's 12 directors involved can you say a little bit about how you brought it all together? This film you should be able to see is a bit of a huge project. Then Where did the money come from? Where did the money come from? In fact, in the beginning of the film we didn't know where the money came from because we were probably in the third or fourth day of the exhibition of the film of the film of the film of the film of the film because in your event I was at home I was actually at home at home in Taiwan in the south because this is also my friend that actually left Taipei very far away because I was working there but I was always very concerned about this and then every day they watched TV then at that time I said because I used to be a reporter I have a feeling that Taiwan is a very important historical event and this is the biggest movement of the film and then I think there should be some image records especially after that event I would be more anxious if this thing did not have records no one would know I would be beaten so at that time I started with friends of the press conference I felt that I should start at least to make a list of records otherwise we would be all different so probably from the third or fourth day we started to be reporters that is to have a list of records and then started to collect some people to take some image records because you are like this don't tell him you can tell that it is a massive major construction combining so many different people and different clips he said in terms of funding to be honest they didn't know where at the beginning they didn't know where the money will come from however it is a necessity to make a record of such a major incident so it was although he was from the very beginning he was in Jani that was in south of Taiwan or south of the middle of Taiwan sorry but he kept his eye on the whole process and he felt because he was a journalist before he became an academic he felt such an important incident this is the most important student at that time the understanding of it is the most important student movement since the wildly student movement and it worked the while and he felt someone should do the visual recording about it he is anxious because especially after students attempt to take over executive Yuan and being evicted violently and he felt there is no proper record it will be a waste of their blood shed so he contacted the documentary union and they have this understanding of taking terms because not everyone has the ability to be there 24 hours so everyone is taking terms and also as much as they could to make some sort of record but at the same time collecting some sort of videos or film clips from the public基本上 and that is to say the sunflow movement has a lot of impact on our film that is to say we might be able to organize it and make a record or a creative record before that of course this is a bit of a basic if we didn't it would be difficult but luckily in 2006 we we had a group of people to make a record a public not a company so basically as long as it has to do with the record there is a group so we already have a small case of cooperation so so this time in 324 we decided to start making records to make a record and then to find everyone especially some members or the staff to start working together and then probably very soon we decided if we want to start to make a digital collection then we might have to decide on some themes because we can't always record the same thing so we have to separate some themes so actually everyone has seen 9 themes at the moment actually in the first discussion we had 12 themes at the moment we didn't record for example the investigation line we thought the investigation line was an interesting thing people hated the investigation line people thought the investigation line was wrong so they didn't do the investigation at the time wow as you know most filmmakers or documentary makers they work by themselves they are their own masters so generally speaking the working pattern is you do your own project however first of all because sunflower movement is influential and very affected quite a lot of people including filmmakers and they felt after discussion they felt they should have take the initiative and work together so that's how they did it following the example us the student inside the parliament actually they student work together and they also think it's a good idea to work together for a common cause so the good news for them was because in 2006 they already had some sort of kind I said documentary union as long as you are a union member as long as you are a documentary filmmaker you can actually join the union and they had before this incident some small project sometimes they work together so they had this experience of working together and co-operate and contribute so the union became the base for this film so they become the core members but they also call for contributions among the filmmakers so they had a meeting and they decided various themes 12 themes however certain themes eventually didn't turn out to be included in this film and he will talk about it later this is a comparison between the film however the director of the film he was in Japan and he said another film so he couldn't tell for example there are some groups our film has not been out for a long time a friend of mine in the newspaper said why didn't you talk about the co-operate but actually it wasn't like that but the director of the film talked about co-operate and his original film was called cut and move and he could hear the film quite exciting so co-operate in this process was cut and moved but actually we when the film was out we had a group of people making a film they had a announcement that co-operate in this film was not bad but we had to turn it into a theme because it might be a little short that co-operate was out but in fact co-operate was not working together so it became that in the whole movement they would be out it seemed that we couldn't use co-operate to watch the film because we made a film an important point is that we hope to make a dialogue like what I just told you not to say who cut who made co-operate because it might be like that there are some misunderstandings because the process caused misunderstandings we don't need to use it like this so to co-operate to co-operate to co-operate to co-operate to co-operate to co-operate to co-operate there are many organisations and dimensions they want to cover and that however sometimes it's because of the topics a bit special sometimes because the director's schedule come really fit in very well with their production for example the contrast between two student movements between the 1980s and 2014 there's only five minutes long however he said originally it was much much longer and more important just because the director had at that time she had to be in Japan so eventually just turned out to be a much shorter film and also there was a topic I hope I translated right is a referendum a alliance a gong taw mong and that particular organisation was quite important and was included in one of the film however it's called you know Stattering and Harvesting so and however it felt like this particular important organisation was sort of marginalised and it is quite it is not intentional and also the director wanted to make that particular organisation maybe take all the material out and make it into an individual film rather than just fitting in a short film into this particular one and they said during the trial and some NGO members were invited to look at this film and they were saying although referendum alliance is an important acting agent in this movement however they didn't really work with democratic alliance people's democratic front so the reason because this is quite important to have a focus eventually they said this particular organisation's contribution either so it is only fair to make an individual film about it rather than just fit in nearly in a small section so of course they also don't want they want to avoid any side effect of misunderstanding during the negotiation between students they really don't want to simplify the topic so sometimes certain things being taken out just because not to create some kind of misunderstanding it's simple to say because time and limit of the sky so some topics didn't do it or just took it away and also at the beginning we decided at least 2 hours because we thought apart from the plot more than 2 hours it was quite hard this time we made a documentary we were more self-loving we didn't want to make it longer and better actually if we had a few topics we didn't have the ability to make it very long I was 30 minutes but now now in each topic the longest time is 5 minutes I hope to control the length there is a more realistic reason because because I want to do DVD to return to friends who are standing actually if it's more than 2 hours the cost will be much higher we want to help the standing this is another part of the economy because I will talk about the part of the standing after 2 hours we thought about the ability and also the economy so the whole system after 2 hours the whole system is better to talk about because because the consideration of time and the capacity of each director so sometimes certain things you can't you have to sort of sacrifice sometimes you have to shrink them for example like his own film that's the the operation of state apparatus apparatus the raid of state apparatus he was saying originally his own version 30 minutes but I think it has to be shrink to how long? 15 minutes 15 minutes so that's the longest one it doesn't mean that longer the better even for us normal people audience even watching a feature film for 2 hours it's quite a hard work longer than 2 hours is really hard work so the reason why it's being cut and shrink within 2 hours was because first of all it's the audience acceptability it is otherwise longer than this you have to go to toilet that's why I'm sorry and another consideration is economic reasons of course they want to save some money for the funders and any DVD because they want to sell the DVD any DVD longer than 2 hours the cost will be much higher so in order to sell it and save some cost for making the DVD and distribute it they decided to cut it within 19 minutes and a bit so it's like a kickstart on a platform on a platform at that time for example we it was called a platform but actually we the board of directors was actually a platform because it seemed that the government didn't let them do such a project so they made a DVD and the original goal was to make at least more than 200,000 DVDs but I didn't know that the DVD was basically written by me I was able to make the DVD in one or two days actually we didn't even have a few DVDs DVDs DVDs sorry it was a platform on a platform to make a platform and set a monthly budget and 200,000 DVDs to make more than 200,000 and for example because at that time we weren't able to do anything we also jumped and realized that actually we still hope that we have an impression of this movement we feel that we are looking forward to it so we didn't set how much money we just let it run for a month actually if we take that opportunity to increase the number of DVDs maybe even more and then we decided that after 200,000 DVDs we will release it and then I will tell you how many DVDs you want so we bought it for about 500,000 and of course for us it's beyond our expectations I wanted to make a video because there were more so we decided to make half of the money half of the money so so until now I should say before the 14th a few days ago we almost decided to make and then until a few days ago to complete a tour of Taiwan so this time we will release it so I feel very happy right after the decision was made about which topic they are going for and they were thinking where can we get the money from so I hope I get this right they were saying they go for something called V democracy some sort of crowd source crowd funding oh crowd funding okay and it's a kind of platform for people put the proposal out then and get some sort of public funding and the target was over 2 million NT dollars, not and their target is to get 2 million dollars within a month so director Cai within only two days within a few days he wrote a proposal and put together some sort of very limited trailers at that time the movement were still ongoing so it's not like it's all drawn to a conclusion so they were saying okay let's see whether we can get to million but within two days they hit the target so that's really quite you can see how passionate people fell about this then they said okay let's open this whole funding business for a month to see how it goes and it's up to you how much you want to donate then sorry fun and within a month they actually got over 5 million that's definitely double their expectation so half was put it towards production and half actually they put into touring Taiwan so I think most of the places are in universities Xunhui is in Da Xun Xiyun sorry cinemas around the island and until four days ago four teams they just finished a whole touring schedule so this you guys so lucky this is the first oversea European I think it's world premiere we better take more questions okay yeah first the director brought part of the national economy so I want to ask the director during this process to interact with the police including the introduction and the process and then after you've done what kind of work can we take the other one the second question, there's one on the back as well yeah just before you ask the question let me just translate this for the audience this gentleman here was asking a director because he's in charge of his film is the state apparatus and he asked what's his experience of negotiating and contacting and interviewing the police and what's his thought on this particular issue okay because you just said that he's in charge of his work I know that the first time he was on the road I want to know the first time I saw the news when we were on the plane I wanted to know actually I just saw that I was very good after we were on the plane after we were on the plane the people who were on the plane were there for the future of Taiwan's society or what kind of reaction or more expectations just quick translation she was saying the first time on screening was an outdoor one outside of the parliament actually on the street of Jinan and then she said she read about the news that Ling Fei Fan, the leader or the president Ling Fei Fan cried after seeing the film and her question was what did anyone among the audience say anything a lot of movement participants or the occupiers did they say anything or how's your thought on this as well I'll answer the second question first simple second question first in the first film of Jinan Road that was we very early on in the sports field because we had a big meaning and then on that day the audience came a lot and then we checked most of the participants came back and then after the film was finished when we were running on the screen the screen was about two or three and it didn't stop I was sitting in front I was looking running to every director the director the director was there I felt that I was quite moved that is to say people at the scene would cry we were sitting on the first stage of the film I felt that I felt that I was not doing well I felt that that was the first time I made a documentary I felt that so I think making a documentary about the sports field seems to be a bit encouraging and then we made a documentary and it's a bit more flavorful and I'm going to report that I'm going to put that in the history book that is Taiwan is a very important you see the documentary the first part there are more than 200 people so I just report to people it's the same thing but the passion is much more different but this is a bit more important is it the point of view the point of view they didn't say it was the point of view but I still have so many people to see I'm going to start the Taiwan premiere outside of the parliament it was very meaningful for us we decided that location exactly because it was where it happened where this movement took place of course there are loads of audience you know but he can tell that quite a lot of people among the audience were actually who took part in the movement or either inside or outside of the parliament especially at the end of the credit scene the applause didn't stop continuously for 2-3 minutes but you guys did stop I didn't say you didn't say that you didn't say that I did but he said when he was sitting in the dark he felt very moved and of course everyone's theory and he felt really encouraging he felt encouraged and supported by the support among the audience because he said although our he's being honest he said he felt that the films were not that great not excellent however I got really high support in comparison to other social issues he noticed that sometimes not everyone's very supportive or even concerned about social issues for example the films that he showed in Surrey and it's not a popular issue sometimes we should really also take care in a concert they can always go and watch his film tomorrow night show your support and go to Surrey I know it's cool but no it's not actually not fun so what time 7.30 7.30 and check out their website and the first question about the police I haven't solved the deal I was just talking about my reaction I was talking about the reaction of the audience I think there are two interesting things the first reaction is for example in the show my theme is the police is like the vice president when he was talking and sitting on the back the audience he was just yelling three times like the police was just the same so it's not full of course the other reaction is it's not just the scene actually it's a pity because the time wasn't really QA we just ended and we had a chat and the audience was a full-time researcher I was a full-time interviewer and the audience asked some questions and the audience was sure that we did this kind of work although they knew that our music industry didn't have such a perfect movement they were all full-time and then there were some questions we didn't think about for example, they thought that the theme of the song was very good, why didn't you use it as a theme why didn't you use it as a theme why didn't you use it in the song when Peter was playing the song was very good why didn't you use it why didn't you use it it wasn't in the film it wasn't the main theme there were some thoughts about music and of course we wanted to know after this exercise what were they doing what kind of influence did they have some people would say that actually Taiwan is now planning to go home to vote some are investing in this kind of exercise I think this is very specific we always we always have a feeling that this exercise is not because we made a record there is a conclusion but we remember that our record is an opening point it's like this exercise the spirit of this exercise it's not dead yet it's still in many different areas it's smiling I have a feeling from the audience at first there are two reactions I only heard one sorry especially during the scene that the police was explaining they were really taking great care of dealing with the students and the audience behind him he said he could hear them talk back swearing as if they were talking back to the police head or achieve quite rudely and of course it's quite different from the situation format here there was no Q&A during the first premiere outside the parliament but people did stay back and chat to each other however moving taking the film around the island and he's in charge of the southern part of Taiwan's touring and he said most of the reaction was very positive everyone was very encouraging and even though the film is not giving you a complete they can't promise you a complete conclusion or a picture of that but at least they try to give you different angles and different way of looking at things and sometimes people ask questions that they never thought about for example people say why didn't you use island the light of island or something island sunrise sorry about popular culture and why didn't you use it as a scene music why didn't you because it's such a beautiful and fitting music they said oh we never thought about that or there's a particular scene that people holding up their mobile phone switch on the torch and waving to replace maybe candle light or something that scene is very quite beautiful in the dark and why didn't they take put more focus on this kind of emotional scene but they said you know sometimes you can't take everything and he said sometimes he's thinking what do these kids do now after the movement and he was saying for example recently in Taiwan there's campaigns called go home and vote is a practical and realistic way of taking part in politics and for them this film provides you an open ending so you draw your own conclusion and the most important thing is the spirit of some file movement never dies they will live with everyone who's taking part or concerned about it that's it I think we almost run out of time actually and how about the first questions then we need to take the group picture otherwise we're going to kick that and we've got a reception for upstairs okay there's another one the first question I'll speak faster that this film actually if I want to make it simple actually I'm the one who's interviewed by the police and scolding the international machine scolding the police is enough but this film is very troublesome to find the witness and the police that's because I'm used to making a documentary so if you're a judge you also have to you have to have a basis and you have to have a basis and you have to be able to have two sides and not just one side so that's why I found the general manager because he's also teaching I found him and called him Mr Huang and he became my classmate and then I told him I really hope that in the documentary of our Taihanga exercise there's also the official statement don't just scold the government because I always feel that except that we have to do something cool we watch it ourselves otherwise you'd better have a different side and let the audience judge because I'm looking forward to our film not only to the Taihanga exercise but also to the middle ground because it's important that we have this space and then Mr Huang the general manager said he was very worried that our film would turn into a film he was very easy to turn into a film and I told him that I don't need his film so you have to speak and he was a bit upset so later on he didn't say he had to be interviewed but later on he agreed so he found out all of his film and then there's the director of the film I had another contact I was on both sides so later on when I found out that they were coming they were interviewed they weren't interviewed so you can see that but then the general manager he felt like the director and the director he tried to speak he tried to speak because he felt like he didn't speak so clearly or he said he tried to speak so you will see that the general manager but some people feel that he didn't help the police but I think it's okay let the audience judge at least we have to have both sides to put things simply he could just interview all the victims who have been beaten up but for him the most important thing if you want to be critical you really should give two sides the equal chance to express themselves to be balanced like BBC and so of course sorry in the film one of the especially there is a very heavy focus on the chief captain Huang Zhongle Huang Zhongle anyway and he said to convince him he had to tell him that first of all call him teacher Huang as if they are because director Tai is also an academic so as if you are talking to your colleagues and he was saying that he want to have an official side of the story so this film will be less balanced and so he wanted to provide all the official side of the police side of the principal and the story they said okay not only I want to be interviewed I also want my staff to be interviewed and also the speaker from the executive Yuan also was interviewed however after everyone being interviewed he said to director Tai I think they are not very articulate I want you to use mostly my speech and he said alright because it didn't help that so that's it I think let's give director Tai one more