 Actually, before the meeting started, it was good to know that Cable and others were there, you know, our friends from the open education movement. So thank you for inviting me to this conversation on how to reimagine open education. Today, I'm going to reflect on open education for sustainable development. And of course, I'll drop on the work of the Commonwealth of Learning. Over the years, but also particularly during the pandemic because that's when we learned, you know, what countries really wanted and what we could do to support them. But first, you know, just for those who don't know about the Commonwealth of Learning, we are an intergovernmental organization with headquarters in Canada and a regional office, the Commonwealth Educational Media Centre in Asia in New Delhi. We work of course in all these 54, these dark blue countries, including Canada, which span all regions of the globe right from here to the Pacific. And our mission is to help Commonwealth member states and institutions to use distance learning and technologies for expanding access to education and training. And, you know, the founding fathers could never have imagined that, you know, 32 years later, the whole world would suddenly pivot to distance education and call would be more important than before. So in this presentation, I will begin by outlining the context today and share our understanding of what we mean by open education at call. And I'll then give you some highlights of how we've opened up education, especially during the pandemic, and then conclude with how we can harness open education for sustainable development. So let's look at the context first. Sustainable development goal four, which aspires to ensure equitable access to quality education and lifelong learning for all by 2030 is more important than ever before because of the huge disruptions and setbacks that education has experienced this year. So we know that 90% of the students were impacted. And even before the pandemic, we knew that most of the targets of this goal were going to be slipping to the 2040s, 2050s, and so on. And now it will probably be even worse. Universal secondary education is part of the SDG-4 is far from being achieved and the global average today is 76%. And of course, if anything, it's going to get worse, especially for girls and persons with disabilities because earlier when pandemics happened, when this Ebola crisis happened in Sierra Leone, many of the girls dropped out and they never actually went back to school. So this is a problem which is waiting to happen and what can we do about it and create it? Again, if you look at access to tertiary education, it's below 40% globally. But in some developing countries, it's even yet to reach 10% and in some countries it's even 2%. So how are we ever going to reach that goal? Youth unemployment was already high before the pandemic and we've seen it become much worse in a post-pandemic world. Of course, we are still in a pandemic world. And this has implications for education because any increase in unemployment results in increased demands for higher education. For example, in the US, a 1% point increase in the unemployment rate is associated with a 1.6% point increase in university improvements. So in the last decade, we've already seen a phenomenal growth and is it going to continue to grow or is it going to stagnate? That's the question. But cost is a very major factor and a major barrier really. In a recent study which we did in, you know, call, we found that learners are finding it hard to afford textbooks. For example, in St. Lucia, where Paul was earlier this year. In fact, that was my last travel to Paul. Learn, you know, the average spending on textbooks is $338, which is way above, you know, what an average person can afford. And similarly, we did a call survey in Malaysia which found that 76% of students did not buy textbooks because of the high costs. And in Bangladesh, they just managed by photocopying content. And in many developing countries, even at the school level, for example, in Togo, several students are sharing one textbook for reading and of course, even more students are sharing one textbook for math. So does it matter or can we somehow manage? There was a study of 22 countries in Sub-Saharan Africa which showed that providing one textbook to each child can improve learning outcomes by anything between five to 20%. So I think it is important that you put a textbook in the hand of every child. And the existing learning crisis is already showing signs of further deterioration. A recent study in the Netherlands records a learning loss of about three percentile points with higher losses among students from less educated homes during the pandemic. In another survey conducted by Tony Bates, even in a resource-rich institution like Stanford, 16% of the undergraduate students did not have access to the internet for half the time. And 60% of students from low-income homes did not have a private space for study. So what was the situation in the Commonwealth? During the pandemic, we found that the greatest need was for quality content, especially at the school level, which has the greatest number of displaced learners. Second, there was an urgent need for teacher training in distance and online education to ensure a smooth transition. Teachers did actually make a transition. And in India, some of the teachers were using their mobile phones to reach students. And they were using it for hours and the teachers were complaining that the phones became so hot that they couldn't hold them in their hands anymore. So they had to put them down. I mean, that's a different dimension of the problem that we've not even thought about. And then third, countries require enhancements in their digital infrastructure to provide an enabling ecosystem that leaves no one behind. And in India, you could see in huge parking lots, children sitting on mats and teachers teaching using loudspeakers. Now, how effective could that have been? But that was the only way. And this was a kind of creative solution that they found. So how has called responded? We've used a multi-pronged approach providing guidelines and resources, building the capacity of teachers, providing tailored responses to requests from member states and trying to promote collaboration for enhanced impact. So as an organization established to promote learning through the use of technologies, particularly distance education, call has been promoting open education from the very beginning. To us, open education describes policies and practices that permit entry to learning with as few barriers as possible. And I think nobody could have summed it up better than the founding chancellor of the Open University of the UK, Lord Crowder, who defined openness in relation to people, open as to places, open as to methods and open as to ideas. So this is the kind of basic philosophy of open education that we have been following. Now put into practice, what does it mean? It means that institutions have flexible entry requirements, allow learners to choose the courses they wish to study and accumulate credits at their own pace and convenience. This is what Charles Weedemeyer, an American, and a visionary who described openness in terms of access, curriculum, participation, and accreditation way back in 1973. In Asia, when we speak of open education, we usually refer to the massification and democratization of education for those hitherto kept outside its purview. And because women have traditionally been denied the opportunities for education, opening up education also means reaching the unreached. Now globally, the concept of open education has a wider and more contemporary connotation. For example, as Tony Bates tells us, open education refers to opening access to courses and programs and includes OER, open access research, open textbooks, and open data. Now, using Christensen's disruptive innovation model in higher education, open and distance learning was the real innovation about 50 years ago at the bottom of the pyramid that challenged mainstream face-to-face higher education. And for over 50 years now, open and distance learning has integrated the social justice agenda in its policies and practices. But I think it took the pandemic to move open and distance learning from margins to mainstream. So let me now outline some of the ways in which Paul has been contributing to opening up education so that no one is left behind. So when Paul started its operations in 1987, one of the mandates was the responsibility of assisting the acquisition and delivery of teaching materials and more generally facilitating access to them. So we were sort of already seeing the kind of seeds of OER in Paul's memorandum of understanding which the heads had signed. And in 1999, Paul built the capacity of 140 teachers in eight African countries to develop 46 teacher training modules that were then available for use free. And of course, people could adapt them. And of course, Ghana, Nigeria, they use this content, not in its entirety, but bits of it. At that time, of course, there were no licenses to open up the material. And then Paul was a signatory to the Cape Town Declaration which agrees that open education is not limited to OER and includes open technologies and open sharing of teaching practices to empower educators. In fact, Paul was the first intergovernmental organization to adopt an OER policy and mobilize governmental commitment to OER. It partnered with UNESCO for the two world conferences on OER with very valuable support from the Humulet Foundation. Paul believes that if the child cannot go to school, the school must come to the child. And this was even before the pandemic. And we've been promoting open schools which provide flexible learning opportunities for secondary education. The issue of access and equity in secondary education can be addressed by establishing open schools and 27 commonwealth countries have these open schools. And I'll just give you examples from three countries. In India, the National Institute of Open Schooling has a cumulative enrollment of 2.7 million students, 31% being female. Similarly in Bangladesh, open school enrolled 165,000 students, 40% of whom are female. And in Namibia, which is a relatively smaller country, 80,000 students, 65% being female, enrolled at the Namibia College of Open Learning. And you can think of where these students would have gone if these open schools hadn't been there. So high quality education is being provided at a fraction of the cost as per call studies. I don't want to go into it now, but it's like anything between one-fifth to one-tenth of what it costs to put a child through a regular government secondary school. And it was very useful to have open schools during the pandemic. And countries with open schools, for example, Botswana, which has Boko Dhal and Namibia, had a head start during the pandemic because they were able to share the self-instruction materials. They printed them and they gave them to parents of children through the regional centers so that even schools or students of all schools in the country would continue to study at home. In addition, we have developed guidelines for building resilient schools and possible models for the future, which can withstand future disasters because this is not the first and it's not the last. And we've shared it with ministries of education and institutional partners around the Commonwealth. Kall also believes that keeping that distance education can keep the doors of tertiary education open even when campus institutions had to close. And we know that from universities around the Commonwealth. For example, in the Commonwealth, there are 33 open universities in fact, Asia probably has the largest number and just these 33 open universities, which have the term open in its title, cater to over 5 million students every year. And the next wave of growth is going to happen in Africa, where already we've seen, we can see these universities I don't know why we haven't got Mauritius on this map, but there's five of them and there's more coming up, you know, the governments are fast tracking open universities in Kenya, Ghana, and Namibia. But during the pandemic, it's not just support for open universities. What is it that countries asked help with? Nigeria, we supported campus institutions to offer distance education and go dual mode. In Antigua, Barbuda, Kenya and Malaysia, we received requests in how to integrate technology into teaching and learning. We've responded to requests from a university in Zambia to integrate employability in the curriculum. And the University of Rwanda is developing online security and policy, privacy policies. And once these are ready and pilot tested, then we'll be ready to share them with other universities in the Commonwealth who will also need them. So I've just given you some examples to give you an idea of what institutions are prioritizing as a result of the pandemic. And as most countries pivoted to distance learning called developed and disseminated guidelines for distance learning to Commonwealth ministers of education and these have been sort of quite widely used, I'm told. Call has also been providing access because there was lack of access to digital content, quality content, open educational resources. And during the pandemic, just one example called partners with the OER Foundation, ICTE and OEG to launch OER for COVID which attracted participants from 89 countries. A survey was conducted which indicates, we asked them whether they wanted more capacity, building more access to repositories and they said we don't have the time for any of that. You please give us curated content which is aligned to our curriculum. So now they really wanted kind of something which was tailor made for their needs. So call responded by developing a video on demand service because you know it's very low bandwidth and connectivity is a problem in the Pacific. So we had to do this video on demand service for STEM subjects aligned to the curriculum of Fiji, Nauru and Samoa. And 800 videos have been put together. This is the first phase and tomorrow with the ministers from the three countries we are going to launch this formally. So as teachers make the difficult transition from classroom to online provision, they have great need for capacity building as we know. And in partnership with the Ministry of Education in Trinidad and Tevebo, call offered a MOOC on using OER for online learning which attracted over 8,000 teachers in the country which is I think pretty much half the number of teachers in the entire country because it's again a small state. And of course the content of all call MOOCs and courses is OER. In addition, we developed a set of, we recorded a set of 12 videos with Tony Bates on teaching in a digital age which is based on his book. And this has become really a crash course for both policymakers and practitioners and is being widely used in including in some of the UNESCO institutes. Since less than half the world has access to the internet, how are we trying to convert the digital divide into a dividend? Of course, MOOCs have been very helpful for helping teachers, but what about other people who don't have access to computers and connectivity? Call has developed MOBI MOOCs to help us reach the bottom of the, the bottom billion by providing simple technology solutions because this has a basic mobile interfaces, doesn't even need a smartphone, social media integration and delivery in low bandwidth situations. And you can see from this photo that these illiterate women, farmers, continue to learn corporate finance using their basic mobile phones even during the lockdown. Another way of reaching the unreached with technology is called APTAS, a low cost offline virtual classroom that provides learners in remote locations with access to digital resources. It's a server that works with a solar charger and a wireless router costing approximately $150. We are giving 30 of these loaded with OER aligned to the content of the Bahamas. And this is going to be now handed over formally, of course, virtually, the machines have been sent already to the Bahamas, but tomorrow the minister will receive them formally through a virtual conference. So this is the second thing, during the pandemic which worked. And also people are asking, for example, Maldives is saying that we can't use the technologies which use a lot of bandwidth. So we are providing Mukit, which is again an open source platform that works in low bandwidth situations and integrates open-source video conferencing. And this is what we are going to be deploying in the Maldives. Ashha, can I just bring forward a question from chat? There's a question about how the video that you're using and in particular the video on demand that you were talking about earlier is distributed in the low bandwidth context. How are you doing that? You know, this video, we've put set up a platform and this is going to be launched, as I said, tomorrow by the three ministers from those three countries. And because we listened to what that survey told us, we have only aligned content which is valuable to their teachers according to their curriculum. So it's not something which is going to need a lot of bandwidth. It can be actually downloaded as and when required. It also has a provision that if the country wants to, you know, telecast it, they can do that. But, you know, let me call my technology expert who's led this. I'll just call Professor Naveed Malik and he'll take it up after I finish the presentation because he knows all the technical stuff. So for those who are interested, and he's just next door, so it's okay. Sure, thanks so much. So then, you know, the other thing which is that unemployment rates, you know, as we know have touched a new high and we need opportunities for skilling and reskilling. And a recent report for the World Education Forum showed that 43% of businesses surveyed indicated that they were set to reduce their workforce due to technology integration. And companies estimate that around 40% of workers will require reskilling of six months or less and 94% of business leaders report that they expect employees to pick up new skills on the job. So what we did that in collaboration with Coursera, CALL offered free training opportunities to over 115,000 persons from 49 Commonwealth countries. And, you know, we were given these free licenses. They started with 10,000. But because CALL had set up help desks and, you know, provided support through partners to the learners who did not necessarily have connectivity and they were using, you know, basic, you know, they were using their smartphones or they were using library facilities. So this then Coursera kept increasing it to 100,000. Now they've increased it to 125,000 and they've increased the date so we can go up to the end of March. And a lot of people have benefited, you know, people have found opportunities for promotions, opportunities for employment after doing these courses. And interestingly, the greatest uptake has been in the Caribbean. In fact, in Guyana, which is a small country, 30,000 plus people have enrolled. And because the minister herself is very sort of engaged, she has signed an MOU with the association of, you know, employers in the country. So all the certificates which are gained through this project, you know, these Coursera certificates, they are now going to be recognized by that association for employment. So of course, we don't forget women and girls. And these are students from Fatima Jina Women's University in Pakistan who have successfully completed several workforce recovery programs under this Coursera call collaboration. And we've got very good testimonials and kind of, you know, stories from them about how they've benefited. So this is people who have access to, you know, computers, they're slightly privileged. What about people who don't? Now we were working with 7,000 weavers and artisans, you know, they are small entrepreneurs in India when the pandemic struck and they were disrupted. But fortunately, most of them had access to smartphones and the training continued using WhatsApp. And this training was mostly in, you know, building capacity in e-commerce. So, you know, this was the other solution that was found for reaching people during this pandemic. And we also developed this guideline on strategies for blended technical vocational skills development during COVID-19 to ensure, you know, that people, more institutions use blended approaches for both speed and scale. So these are just some examples of how call promoted open education for sustainable development. But what did we learn? So even though countries were forced to close borders, I think the future does lie in collaboration. Call for a partnership attracted more than 60 organizations, institutions and associations, including of course, OEG, which is a member of this international partnership called Open Door. And this has become a vibrant platform where partners have shared over 200 courses already. You know, these are all OER courses which anybody can use. And now, because there is a greater acceptance of open education, we can build on these foundations to raise awareness about how inequalities can be addressed. In fact, we need to invest in more OER for persons with disabilities. You know, this is one area where there's a huge gap. Not just for OER for persons with disabilities, but also reducing the costs of assistive technology. So if our open source community can sort of focus on that, it would really help, you know, reach this constituency. Governments and institutions, of course, still need support with policy development and implementation plans to build resilience ecosystems that can face future challenges. Of course, there are more OER policies, especially at the institutional level. Governments are supportive, but this does not always translate into explicit policies. And in many countries, people are opening, governments are opening up their content, but not necessarily applying any licenses to do that. So this is still a long-term process and we'll need our continued support. And finally, of course, there are many more repositories today than there were a few years ago. But I think people are still not aware of where these repositories are, how to use them. So we still need to publicize them and make them more user-friendly because sometimes, you know, it's a real barrier when you have to fill in so much information before you can even access a repository. So I think we really need to make them fully open rather than partially. And the main constituency which is really going to help us achieve this is the teaching community. You know, building the awareness and capacity of teachers, especially at the school level. I think most of our efforts have been at the university level. If we went to the school level, I think we can accelerate the transformation of closed systems into more open ones. So as we have seen, openness is an evolving concept from the various definitions in the beginning. And it also means different things to different people. So what do we mean by open education for sustainable development? I think we mean the use of flexible learning which can be done anytime, anywhere, using any resource facilitated by a range of affordable and accessible, accessible especially for persons with disabilities technologies that empower learners to access quality educational opportunities for economic growth. Allows them to participate in the process of effective social change and to contribute to environmental conservation. That's one area we haven't really touched, but that's the other kind of growing crisis of the future that we still need to think about. And without that, we can't have open education for sustainable development. So with that, let me thank you for your kind attention and let me call Navid to answer the question about how exactly that video on demand is going to work. Sure. Just a minute. And while she's doing that, please ask some more questions in the chat so that we can engage Asha in a conversation. I think as you can hear, she's a very impassioned and knowledgeable speaker and is doing some amazing work. Thank you for you. No, no, come here. You need to unmute Asha. Can you hear me now, Paul? Yes, that's great. So colleagues, I have Professor Navid Malik with me and I don't know if you know him, but you may know him because he's been very active in OER in Asia. He was the former Vice Chancellor and Rector of the Virtual University of Pakistan. Hi, good morning folks. So this platform that we've set up is the video on demand platform. It is a platform that's capable of varied bandwidth. So in a high bandwidth situation, it will give you high quality videos and in a low bandwidth situation, it will still give you a video but meter down the bandwidth. So it's quite capable and it's already set up for multiple platforms. So you can see it on a computer or on a cell phone, et cetera. And for, I think one of the countries may be interested in doing a back-to-back. So you have a middleware computer which basically receives the stream and puts it onto a broadcast television network. So it's quite capable and quite flexible. So any questions you have about that? I know it's broadcasting. There's a question from Beat about whether a local server can be set up where curated material is downloaded and accessed at any time without an internet connection. Completely doable, completely doable. Putting up a local server that's already there. You see, let's say video on demand platform is not rocket science, but the value add here is the curated content. The fact that we've been able to go and dip into the world's repositories and bring up something that's useful and specially targeted to the curriculum of the Pacific Island States, that is what makes it useful. You can always mirror it locally and that's always a good solution in terms of, especially where international bandwidth is constrained. Sure. There's a follow-up on question just asking about whether you see an application for low bandwidth in the Canadian context. Has there been any uptake here in Canada and does call work with, say, Canadian, Northern, rural remote populations? No, we haven't done that, but what works in the developing world context can work in the Canadian remote regions as well. The actors' device can be very useful in reaching the last mile in any kind of frontier communities, especially where the numbers are small. Sure. So the point is that nobody, we've tried a few times with the BC government and with other stakeholders to link us with the communities, but it hasn't happened so far because I think there's some kind of steps to be taken before you can get there and so far we haven't, but I mean, what could be better than that? We're sitting here in Canada and if you can't add value to Canada, what's the point of it? There was a lot of comments in chat, Asha, about how impressive the body of work is that the Commonwealth of Learning does. So on behalf of the global open education community, let me thank you for that work, but also people were wondering like, how is it possible for you to accomplish so much with a relatively small number of staff? I think the simple answer to that is that we are very small, we've just less than 40 people in Vancouver, seven people in Delhi, but we've got very good partners who actually add about more than, almost an equal amount of effort, but I think the main thing is that our staff are looking at it not as a job, but as a mission. They are here to make a difference in the field really, and I tell you, we've never been busier even if whether we are working at home or whether we are working in office, some of us are working in office and some of us are working from home, but it's been much busier than it would have been last year really, because now is the opportunity when people need help, now is payback time for us really. They support us, now is the time that we bring value to them, and I think people are appreciating that. And how do they make their requests? So how do you solicit the requests for help and then manage the decision-making around which ones you'll pursue and help? You know, there are two types of things that we are doing, like one is that the generic things, you know, the instruments, guidelines, et cetera, which we provide for all, for the benefit of everyone. In fact, even, you know, the Canadian Provincial Ministers received our, we did a report for Commonwealth Education Ministers, we even sent it to them, and they appreciate some of them wrote letters of appreciation and so on. But so that's one level. The other is when people request us. So how do they request us? You know, the ministries of education are the ones who pay us. And all ministers in all 54 Commonwealth countries have focal points. The ministers have nominated focal points. So they are the call person, you know, our man in Havana type of situation, our man or woman in Havana. They are the ones who tell us, okay, now the minister's asking for this. Sometimes the minister writes directly. And then we have regional focal points meetings. Like when you were in St. Lucia, we had the regional focal points meeting for the Caribbean. So all 12 member states were represented and they told us what their priorities are. So there are two or three different mechanisms. One is the regional meetings where we find out their priorities and link them, align our work to their national priorities. Two is even in the course of, you know, for example, now as the situation evolved, people asked us and we responded. So sometimes it's a minister who come on his own call. Sometimes it's a focal point. And the other way they call it, you know, really manages is that we are very responsive. We don't let the grasp go under our feet because we can't afford to. You have to work. There's a bunch of other questions that's pouring in. And I'll say to the participants that are in this session, if you'd like to ask your question in person to Asha, you're more than welcome to grab the microphone and do so. So let me just ask if anyone wants to do that. Danielle, Katsu, Sean, do you want to ask your questions or do you want me to bring them forward? I can ask, I don't mind. This is Sean speaking. So I was just wondering how you view the ability of OER content creation to support the content authors beyond their paid roles and institutions. Over the last couple of days, we've talked a lot about creating sustainability and the various roles in which people play in content authoring. And I'm wondering, is there a role for OER content to play in building recognition for content authors and building a robust and efficient industry for content generation, both at the local, the regional, and even the state level? Thank you. You know, one of the things that we did, like I was talking about stamp 2000 plus materials in 1999, you know, we built the capacity of 140 teachers from eight countries. So that becomes, you know, the sustainability element that they learned how to develop self-instructional materials in teacher education and they contributed them as open content. So most of the time, when we are developing OER, we are trying to develop the capacity first. And the capacity, it usually starts with first awareness, then it starts with, you know, helping people develop capacity in finding OER, where to find, how to find, how to adapt, how to adopt, and then in how to develop. So I think in some institutions, we are also saying that, especially in open universities and other institutions, that if people develop OER, that should be counted as publications towards promotions. So this is how they would get the recognition and there would be some incentive for people to do that. The second way can be to put it in a job description, you know, all the new upcoming jobs which are coming up, that put it as that, you know, that one of the requirements of your job is not just developing content, but developing, you know, OER and that sort of thing, and your commitment to open education. So there are various things which are happening, but for us, developing the capacity is absolutely fundamental. So that then that becomes a sustainable model. Thank you, Asha. I'm gonna bring forward this question from Katsuke Shigata in Japan, which is around the work you did with Coursera. His question is, what kind of experts did you work with on the help desk of the Workforce Recovery Program that would listen to the demands of learners and then connect them to the appropriate course because he recognizes that that's an important function and one that could be challenging. You know, what we did is that we developed help desks in the countries and in cases, the numbers were small in the region. And the help desk was usually in collaboration with the ministry. And with partners, you know, the partners had the experts. So the role of the help desk was three-fold. One is to help, you know, hand-hold people because some of them were first-generation learners, online learners, they didn't know what to do. So, you know, which course to select. So it was that type of counseling support. It was also technical support. Okay, I'm not able to, you know, get in. I'm not able to, you know, generate my certificate. What am I supposed to do? And, you know, so basically tutorial counseling and administrative support, you know, those were the three dimensions of support which were provided, not necessarily any expertise in, you know, the domain area, but just that type of help in terms of technology, in terms of, you know, what to do. And that really helped people, that really helped people. And then, you know, we, for example, in Ghana, the library association allowed the participants to come and use their computing facilities and, you know, the internet connectivity and Wi-Fi and all. So Paul was able to catalyze those linkages and facilitate those possibilities for our learners. And that's why it became so popular. Fantastic, that's a huge uptake. There's a really great question here from Beat, which is, well, I'll ask it for you, Beat. Are there curated materials available for K to 12 education that could be downloaded on a server and would form the basis of developing an open learning system for Uganda? You know, there isn't anything which is, which we've really done so far because we haven't started curating them because first we need, you see how we work is we ask the focal point of the minister to nominate a person that we work with. They give us access to the curriculum and the discipline areas where they need the curated content. If they are able to do that, then we have the experts who will, you know, what should I say, harvest the OER from different world repositories and put it all together and give it to them. So if Uganda is interested, most certainly we'll be able to help them. We have a focal point in Uganda in the ministry or the person who's asking this question can approach us directly. We are here to thank you. Hey, go Beat. You get to have direct access to Asha. Thank you, Asha. There's one more question related to Canada which I think is an interesting question and that is, have you contacted any of the Inuit governments? We haven't, we haven't. And we tried to go through, you know, some contacts in the city provincial government and we even tried to look at some auto-working but like I said, that there were several kind of steps to be taken first before we could get to them. And we couldn't really. In fact, we were even proposing, you know, once to bring, you know, the kind of first nations here and you know, the Maori and Aboriginal communities in Australia and then New Zealand in a panel at one of our PCMs. Oh, wow. And that would have been nice because that exchange of experience and, you know, collaboration and then they would have their own bilateral linkages and collaborations going forward. And then, you know, call doesn't really have a road beyond that. Maybe we can do it Paul in PCF 10 which is happening with Athabasca in Calgary. That's a good idea. Yeah. You know, Canada and then we can involve them. Yeah, I like that a lot. I think it'd be a wonderful idea. There, let me just give a last call for questions for Asha to the participants. Anyone have final questions and if so please feel free to grab the microphone. Okay, I'm not seeing anything Asha. So let me just thank you on behalf of the whole community for the amazing work that the Commonwealth of Learning does. And Asha, I've always found you like one of the most impassioned sort of speakers on behalf of open education. And you tell such a compelling story for the whole global context of open education. So thank you so much. But thank you for inviting us, you know, and we are so proud to be part of this OEG community, the entire open community. And we are here to contribute, you know, same as you guys.