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In fact, in today's episode, I talk about cordyceps, among other things. I love this stuff. I actually take it all the time. Those of you who've been listening to Mind Pump for a while know I rave about this. So if your comment is the one that's picked, you'll get a box of it sent to your house for absolutely free. Also, one more thing. The phase two bundle promotion is still going on. So what we did is we took Maps Performance. This is an athletic workout program about three months long and combined it with Maps Aesthetic, which is a three-month bodybuilder program. You combine the two, you get the best of both worlds. Normally, they both retail together for close to $300, but right now, the phase two bundle includes them both for $79.99. Have we lost our minds? Yes, we did, but that's okay. Take advantage. Go to mapsfebruary.com, sign up. It's a one-time payment. Plus, you get a 30-day money back guarantee. Enjoy the show. Guys, I am very excited and happy that you guys finally agreed to do an episode on the weird supplements that are out there. Sal's weird supplements. Actually work, you know, because there are some weird things out there, some compounds that actually do work in our back by scientific study. But before we get into them, I want to talk a little bit about our history with supplements. Because I know especially you, Adam, you and I are probably more similar. You know, I started younger than you. I'm pretty sure you've tried everything under the sun as a kid too, right? Yeah. No, I tried a lot of supplements for sure. Yeah. So what was that like? If someone said it worked, you just bought it? Yeah, no. Okay. So I remember being like my teenage years going down to the, you know, back then it was Max Muscle, I think was the store that we go down there. And there was always some jacked dude behind the counter, right? And as a 17-year-old. This is what I take. Yeah, right? The 17-year-old skinny boy. And I think that's what the managers teach those guys to say. It's like, when the dumb kid comes in and asks you questions, just tell him that you take all this shit right here, right? So I was definitely that kid that was a sucker for that walk-in, dude's jacked. And he's telling me, you got to take this, you got to take this, you got to take that. And I was like, all right, all of it. So, and I remember back then, I was probably, I'd say spending anywhere between, you know, three to $500 a month. Yeah. Which was a lot of money for a kid. A lot of money. You know, I was making $5 an hour. I wasted money. Yeah. You know, and, you know, when you're that young too, and you're experimenting with things like that, and you're experimenting with so many different ones, it's actually really hard to tell what is working and what is not working. Yeah. Because I was trying everything under the sun. Yeah, same here. And I think the big problem for me, looking back, obviously, because I did the same thing. I took everything. If I would, I read, I had Flex Magazine, Muscle and Fitness, Iron Man, Muscle Media 2000, Muscle Mag. I mean, I literally had all the magazines. And I didn't know this back then as a kid. I know this now. But these magazines were literally created and designed to be marketing, very fancy marketing pamphlets. So when they put these magazines together, it was very smart marketing, you know, if you think about it. But what they did is we're going to put articles together and we're going to use these magazines to sell products. And they were very effective at doing it. So if I read something in the magazine, then I would buy it and I'd try it out. So I tried all the weight gainers. I tried all the energy boosters, testosterone boosters, even though I was a 17-year-old kid. It couldn't boost my testosterone anymore than it was. Yeah, but you know what? You know why that sold you? I'm sure it's the same reason I sold me. When you're 17, okay, you're aware of what steroids are. You know that steroids exist. And there's a part of you, or there's a part of me, I should say, that wanted to try them, but it was too scared to do steroids because that's, you know... You don't want to go full illegal. Right, I don't want to do something illegal, but I want the closest thing to that. And supplement companies knew this. And so they would mark it in some of the names of the supplements I bought. Matter of fact, the ones I spent the most money were the ones that sounded just like a real steroid. Some of the ads would have pictures of like... A needle. Like beakers. Yes. Like chemistry. And then they would take like an herb, right? They would take an herb. And every herb, you can give it the chemical name, right? So rather than saying Sol Palmetto, it would be like this long chemical name. And instead of saying Sol Palmetto, they'd be like this. They'd be like, whoa. Yeah. What is this new chemical? Trimbalonase. Yeah. And it would always have a picture of like a syringe or whatever. But you're 100% right. They were trying to push that. So I started with all the popular stuff. And then eventually I moved to the back of the magazine. And the back of the bodybuilding magazines were these ads. This is back in the 90s now. There were ads that looked shady. And I thought that's where the real stuff is. It's not just like mainstream stuff. I bet you it's this weird stuff. I remember in particular, there's this one supplement. It was called... I think it was called Muscle Mix. And the picture, it was a small ad in the back. And it was a vial. It looked like a glass ampoule almost, like a vial. And the before and after pictures always sold me. I was like, this is gonna totally work. And of course it never did. Yeah. I remember too. I mean, I wasn't like as drawn into trying to get like some kind of like phony testosterone boosting, you know, like supplements. But I remember like one season when I was playing football and I had a few of my friends that were just like, dude, we got to do something else. But we don't want it. It was the whole thing. We don't want to go illegal with it. We want to see what we can actually buy in person. And they would always have it like on the very bottom shelf that locked up, you know, at one of those max muscle or GNCs. And you know, and then the guy behind there was like, okay, you'd like look around like, you know, is anybody looking? Yeah, I got this. And it was like some kind of like panther supplement, you know, like my friend bought it. And then I'm like, and see, I was so dumb. I didn't even like want to continually use it. I thought that just after a few, like I might be able to feel something from it or whatever. And so, you know, I try, I'm like, ah, this doesn't even work. And then my friend was just like religious about it. And, you know, kept buying these things that were like, at least like 200 bucks a bottle. Yeah, there was a period of time. So in the 90s and the late 90s, pro hormones became a thing. So these were hormones that your body uses to convert into other hormones. And of course the idea is take this and you'll have more testosterone. The first one was DHEA, which you can still buy over the counter. So DHEA is a parent hormone and say, oh, if you take this, then, you know, there's only two or three steps and it becomes testosterone. It's not, it doesn't, it's not how it works. If a guy takes DHEA, he's not going to get higher testosterone. I actually get higher estrogen, but it was the first time you could buy a hormone over the counter. Then the next one was angestinidone. Do you guys remember that? I do remember that. Remember when Mark McGuire? That's, so I was just going to tell that story. I spent, that was, I spent the most money during that time because I remember Mark McGuire coming back for the A's and he looked like he put on 30 pounds and he said it was angestinidone. He was sponsored by a company called, I want to say it was called Pinnacle and they, and it was angestinidone that they, that they were selling or how, I don't know how you pronounce it, but it was, that's exactly what it was. And I bought a ton of those bottles, man. I actually thought it really, I felt it though. I thought I felt it. I thought that was one of those ones that, man, this, this is absolutely working. I feel like I'm stronger. I don't know how much of it was placebo effect. Yeah, it really doesn't. It was all the creams. I got them that huge. Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't do much, but that was, there was that, that happened in the late nineties. And then in the early 2000s, they actually figured out a way to sell designer steroids over the counter. And that's because the, the laws at the time were very specific, you know, testosterone, injectable testosterone, illegal or controlled, I should say, you know, Stenolazolol or whatever, Winstraw, you know, you know, DECA, whatever. But if it wasn't specifically illegal, then you can alter the molecule. Right, by like one molecule, right? Yes. It's all, it had to be off and then now it's no longer illegal. It's gray market. It would be called gray market, right? Not explicitly illegal. And so what, what supplement manufacturers did in the early 2000s is they actually very smart. They went through all of the discarded, tested hormones that pharmaceutical companies had created. So pharma companies would test a new steroid or a new hormone. You always derived off testosterone but changed to, you know, increase its anabolic properties or its androgenic properties, whatever. And oftentimes they would discard them because of side effects or wasn't good for the liver or they had a better option somewhere else. And you could get access to what these chemicals were. And so what people did as supplement companies is they'd get access to these chemicals and then they just produced them and sell them. And they would sell them as pro hormones, but they weren't. They were actual steroids. And I remember in the early 2000s, the first one that I took was called SuperDraw. And SuperDraw was very liver toxic but it was a steroid. And that really, you felt or whatever. And I did a whole stint of that kind of stuff, not really realizing what the deal was. So that's kind of my history, you know, with those kinds of stuff. I would say that the biggest problem with doing all of that, besides the who knows potential damage I did to my body or my hormone system, really the biggest problem was it prevented me, looking back, it prevented me from really mastering exercise programming and diet is what it did. Because I relied so much on supplements thinking that's what was gonna do it, that I just didn't pay a good enough attention to my programming and diet. And had I done that, I would have got way better games. Well, I think that's the problem even still today, right? I think that even the generation coming up right now that's getting marketed to with supplements, there's just this impression that supplements make such a big difference. You know, because you see the Mark McGuire stories or you have these massive body builders that are pros, that are on magazines, that are saying that they're taking all these stacks and whether they are or not, it doesn't matter because what made that body look like that had very, very, very little to do with anything that they were taking supplement wise and mostly with their diet and their programming and their consistency in that. And I didn't get that either. I didn't get that until my late 20s that that really come full circle for me. In my early 20s and teens, it was, it was all about trying the latest supplement and trying the latest diet gimmick that was out there. And really, I had never strung like real consistency in my training and diet for a long enough period of time to watch my body change later on. And this is what happened to me even with steroids. So I started experimenting with steroids in my early 20s thinking that was the answer. Okay, I've tried all the over the counter stuff and none of that's got me to it. So maybe the only difference between me and those guys on the cover of the magazine because I'm smart, I'm a trainer. I'm a trainer. I know that I thought I knew everything. It must be the only difference between me and them is they have the real stuff. And that's when I began starting to experiment with steroids. And I had the similar, similar response with steroids as I did with these over the counter supplements. Maybe I felt a little stronger. Like definitely the first time I took steroids, there was a huge strength increase. I noticed I got stronger every time I went into the workout but my body wasn't changing. That was the main reason why I was taking it. I was insecure about how skinny I was. I wasn't getting any bigger though from it. I was getting stronger but I wasn't getting bigger because my diet and my programming wasn't in line. You weren't feeding it. You know what I find interesting about your story, Adam, is that you're very open about your anabolic steroids in the past. You took, from the last time we talked, you took higher doses when you experimented in your 20s than you did when you were a professional, when you actually won your pro card as a physique competitor and looked, I mean, you looked phenomenal and your doses of steroids were lower. The difference was, it was significantly lower. I did way more steroids in my early 20s trying to figure it out, which ended up, by the way, screwing up my hormone profile completely. I mean, by my late 20s, I then had to take a therapeutic dose just to be normal. So even, and I have these pictures that are out on YouTube and I've posted a long time ago of when I was 30 years old and I fell out of shape, I was taking testosterone during that time. A lot of people don't know that. A lot of people think I just wasn't working out. I wasn't eating. I wasn't taking anything. And then all of a sudden I hopped on some gear and I got shredded or whatever. It's like, no, I was taking testosterone back then just to be normal, even though I was out of shape and not training. You just weren't working out. I just wasn't working out and eating correctly. Then I started dieting, getting myself in shape. And then I got all the way down to 7% body fat, not messing with any more testosterone, keeping the exact same level as I was when I was fat. The only difference was I dialed in the diet and the consistency with training and that got me to that 7%. Then from there, I was like, oh, wow, there's all this attention from social media, from transforming my body. Let's take it to the next level and compete. That was when I decided, okay, if I'm going to get on stage and I'm going to compete with these competitors who are all taking antibiotics, I'm going to take my dose up to a higher dose than a therapeutic dose. And that's when I began taking like 250 milligrams of tests. Before that, I was taking 125. Yeah. And that is- In your 20s, you were taking way more than that. But not good diet. Yeah, and not seeing the results at all. I would see. I would see it a little bit. Of course, when you take testosterone, you put on some water weight. You definitely gain some strength. But what was happening is I'd feel strong. I'd put a few pounds on and then I'd come off the cycle and then I would look exactly the same. And what I did, I fell in the trap of, oh, it must be because I took tests. Let me try D-ball now. Oh, let me try Antivar now. Oh, let me add ecopoys in there. Oh, and I just started going through the whole cycle of let me just like I did with supplements. Oh, it must not be that supplement. Let me try this one. Yeah. Let me try getting the physique that I was always desiring. Yeah, yeah. I would say, and this is not one of the supplements that made this list because we're going to, you know, we're talking about weird supplements that actually have studies that show that they work and they do have an effect on the body. Of course, they're not going to come anywhere close to what you're going to get with, you know, exercise, nutrition, and good sleep. Not even going to come close, but they will have an effect. Now this supplement I'm going to mention right now is not a weird supplement. It's super well known. It's creatine. Creatine is one of those that is just very effective across the board. It's also good for overall wellness and health. That's always the number one supplement I would say for ergenic effects, for muscle, for recovery, for strength, and across the board. But the next ones that we're going to talk about are the weird ones. These are the ones that they're, you know, either they're herbs or they're insect hormones or things that, you know, you might not have heard of. Maybe you have heard of, but they have been shown in studies that have pretty interesting effects. Also, the only supplements that we're going to talk about right now, here's the criteria. They have to have studies that support them and they have to be ones that at least one of us has tried repeatedly and can say that they feel also. Because there are some supplements that didn't make this list. That some studies show that they work. I've tried them. You guys have tried them and like HMB is one of them. Lots of studies says it works. I never felt anything off of HMB. It's, you know, it's based off of amino acid. Didn't do anything for me. Didn't make the list. So the ones on here that made the list, they're proven to have some effect and we've noticed the effect when we've tried them ourselves. All right. So the first one is an interesting one. I found out about this particular supplement called ectosterone, which is a little bit more well-known nowadays. But I found out about it years ago because I was scouring the library, believe it or not. And I found a book that quoted some Soviet era studies on compounds that improve strength and muscle. Now, here's what's interesting about this, right? The Soviets, you know, remember this is a very, very communist country. They, it was in their best interest to produce athletes that would win. This is the way they showcase the superiority, right, of their country. And they spent a lot of money and time on researching all kinds of different things on their athletes' training methodologies, hormones. There's lots of, you know, hormone studies and then weird, you know, compounds. Every possible way that they could increase just a sliver of performance like they experimented with. Yeah, we got some great studies from them. Oh yeah, for training in particular. For training, yes. Yes. So I found this old Soviet era studies that talked about this compound that they, in the study, compared to low dose of diannibol. Diannibol is a very common old anabolic steroid. And strong. And it's a strong one. And so they compared ecti-sterone. And if I recall correctly in this study, they compared it to 10 milligrams a day of diannibol. Not a huge dose. Nonetheless, if you are naturally take 10 milligrams a day of diannibol, you're going to feel it. They compared the two. And ecti-sterone actually outperformed it in a short study. I think it was like a 60-day study or whatever. So that, like, blew my mind. And so I read more stuff, all these Soviet studies. And I was able to find ecti-sterone back then. It was very, very hard to find. And I tried it. And it actually worked. It actually did work. OK, so now what's the origin? Like, what does it consist of the compound? Yeah, what's it derived from? So ecti-sterone is a phytosteroid. So it's a plant hormone. It's actually found in spinach. Spinach is one place where you get it. You'd have to eat a shit ton of spinach though. Dude, so Popeye was right. Yeah, I know, right? Isn't that interesting? How funny is that? Is that weird? So you find it in plants. Spinach has it. Now, to be fair, you'd have to eat a lot of spinach in order to get the effective dose of ecti-sterone. It just wouldn't work that way. But you find it's also an insect hormone. So it's a hormone in insects that produces molting, you know, when insects molt or whatever. Oh, yeah. So this hormone causes that to happen in insects. So it is a hormone. It's just not a human hormone. When we take it, and they've tested it, lots of studies, right? They've tested it to see, does it change testosterone levels? Does it, you know, lower estrogen? Like what's happening? Because the effects... Insect-like effects. Yeah, like the fly. Yeah. If you take it, you feel it, and it feels like your testosterone is going up. It feels like your libido is going up, that kind of stuff. Doesn't affect hormones. Doesn't raise testosterone. In fact, that's how they marketed it back in the day. They marketed it as a testosterone booster. But it doesn't raise testosterone. Now, I wasn't familiar with this one. So when did it actually hit the market and become popular? It wasn't popular until recently where it's starting to get a little popular. And the reason why it's starting to get a little popular is because there was another study that was done that showed that, up until this point, there were just Soviet studies and animal studies. Animal studies consistently showed you give this to sheep, they grow more wool, and they get bigger and stronger. You give it to pigs, they get stronger. You give it to rats, mice, they get stronger. The human studies were like, not that good, except for the Soviet ones, which sometimes we don't trust, because we think maybe they were bullshitting or whatever. What else were they on? They did a study on athletes, and they found that it reliably built muscle and strength and accelerated what's called protein synthesis, where your body's taking protein and turning it into new muscle. Because of that, the organization, what's the testing organization for the Olympics? Is it not water? Something like that. Yeah. Is it a band supplement? They reviewed it, because they were potentially going to ban it. Then it got attention. Oh yeah. If the Olympics banned something, people are going to take it. People are going to go buy it. So did it? Did it get banned? Did not get banned. But that doesn't mean it won't get banned in the future. But they did review it because they said that... Is that recent that they just reviewed it? It was like a couple of years ago. And since then, and here's the deal, real ectosterone is relatively hard to find, easier to find today than it used to be, but still there's a lot of crappy stuff that's out there and you got to take the right dose and whatever. But you can find more of it now in better quality or whatever. Like I said, it's hard to find. But because they said they were going to maybe ban it and they're reviewing it, it started to get more popular. But what it does is it accelerates protein synthesis. It actually improves cholesterol profile. It speeds up the production of keratin. So you'll notice nails will grow faster. Your skin will start to, you know, feel like it's, you know, feeling better or whatever. And some people can cause gut issues. Very weird, interesting supplement. It has a little bit of growth hormone effect too. Almost, right? Almost. Now, here's the thing. This is my experience. You take it for two months and then it doesn't really do anything after that. So it's not like you just keep taking it. I feel like whatever, however it's working, your body starts to adapt and then you start to get no effects from it. When you go off, you do lose some of the gains you got. Now, do you find this, I find this common in a lot of natural supplements. I feel like if you've never taken, in fact, some of those things will go on the list and I'll share my experience with some of the other ones. I actually haven't taken this one, but I have taken some of the other ones we're going to talk about. And that is something that I find common with a lot. Yes. I'll notice like, oh, wow. I'd never noticed this. And then I'll feel it for a while and I'll start taking it consistently. And then it seems to kind of trails off. Yeah. Then it fades off. Yeah. Just like anything, I think whatever receptor it attaches, this happens with caffeine, right? So the first time you have caffeine, oh my God, I'm energized and you need more and more. Whatever receptor it attaches to, your body is always trying to be in balance and so it starts to shut down or shut off receptors or it'll stop producing the chemicals that it's making you produce more of or whatever to balance you out. So you do get a bit of withdrawal when you go off. In other words, you start to go off. Your libido is low for a week or two. You lose some of your gains and then you come back to normal. Overall though, if you cycle it, you do end up better. I would say overall. And do you recommend taking it with anything else or is it like less beneficial if you're not hitting protein and takes? High protein. Okay. Yes, because it increases protein and your appetite goes up. That's right. You take ectosterone, you get hungry. So you do want to increase. So great for the hard gain. Yeah. Now they think that it's mediated by the estrogen receptor, which is kind of interesting. So I don't know if this is a good one to take and I don't know if there's any studies that were done on one man. It's all men. You know who I've had to try ectosterone several times? I heard you talk to Doug with it. Doug. Doug's actually had. Doug, what was your... Yeah, the Scriber experience. Yeah. I definitely felt like my appetite went up. Vivid dreams. Yeah, that's another one. That's another one. And yeah, I felt like I got some benefits in the gym as well. Like sexual vivid dreams? No, just vivid in general. Could be sexual, maybe not, okay? Did you notice a boost in libido? Because that's what I would always notice from it. Well, yes. Okay. I became ravenous. Wow. Wow. Wow. A ravenous Doug is pretty scary. So that's the first one. The next one is one of my favorite supplements of all time because I get health benefits from it as well. And this is one that I'll throw in relatively consistently, meaning that I'll take it, you know, for a few months and I'll maybe stop for a month or two and then take it again. And this is cordyceps. And I've had you guys all try cordyceps in the past. So what's your guys' experience with cordyceps? I feel like I have more energy in my workout. And it's very subtle. It's not like caffeine. It's not like, you know, the sodium boost that we're doing recently. I've noticed, I literally just feel like I have a little bit extra gas in the tank. That's about it. Yeah, I tended to, you know, supplement with that when I was doing more long bouts of, you know, cardiovascular type training and workouts. And it definitely helped give me that stamina, you know, in my workouts and stuff. So it actually, you know, had a massive benefit to it. Yeah. Cordyceps is a weird one too, by the way. It's a fungus that grows in, I think caterpillars. It like takes over the caterpillar. It's a mushroom. Yeah. It's the same one that turns it in almost into a zombie. Yeah. It kills them. It like comes out of them. And then that's where you get. How weird that we benefit from that. And then this became a thing in the U.S. When was the Olympics where China hosted the Olympics, the Summer Olympics? Was that 2000? Okay. So was, now refresh my memory. So was this the women's team? Yes. Okay. And this is where it almost, or it did get banned because it was so effective with their, it was either their track and field team, or I forget which ones were caught using it. It was the female swim team. Swim team. And they were crushing. Yeah. And they came out and said, here's why they're crushing. It's because they're taking Cordyceps. And then it started to gain some popularity. My first experience with Cordyceps was when I was doing Jiu-Jitsu. That's where I noticed the biggest difference. Cordyceps in studies has been shown to improve VO2 max over placebo. So your VO2 max gets better, reduces inflammation. And in men with low testosterone, it can reliably raise testosterone. So if you have low testosterone as a guy, or you struggle with that. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Cordyceps will raise testosterone levels. Only if you're low though. So that's like a lot of these herbs, right? Yeah. It's hard to find an herb that'll raise high testosterone. But if you have low testosterone, yeah, exactly. It has adaptogenic qualities, meaning it helps the body deal with stress. For me, I'll take Cordyceps when I want to do a long, hard work. If I'm going to do like 20 reps on the squat, I'm going to take Cordyceps. If I'm going to do a lot of volume, I'll take one. You're less sore. If you take Cordyceps, you'll notice you're just less sore, less damage, less inflammation. It's all the work capacity type of workouts and like phases I would get into. This paired beautifully with that. Yeah. Now, here's something else that's interesting about this. So I noticed this when you guys remember when I had the sauna in my house, I had to get rid of it because obviously it's in the baby's room, so we had to get rid of it. But I had bought like a sauna, and I was doing sauna regularly. I took Cordyceps and my heat resistance exploded. I remember you saying that. I could sit in the sauna way longer. It's strange. So I talked about it on the podcast a long time ago because one of our sponsors, FourSigmatic, has Cordyceps. Actually, it's the best. Not just because we work with them. They have one of the best Cordyceps supplements because they have what's called a dual extraction process. And I was talking about how it improved my heat tolerance. Well, anyway, I got a bunch of DMs from construction workers, roofers, people who work outside in the sun. And they were like, dude, this is a game changer. I'm working. I'm not dying out in the sun. Dude, there's got to be something to that because that's usually when I notice the most fatigue is when I get really, really hot towards the end of the work out where I've been running hills or whatever and I'm just dogging it at that point. But when I was supplementing with that, it was definitely like, I could feel that I was still hot, but I didn't have that same, I didn't feel like I was being pressed down. My body was shutting down. That's what I noticed in jiu-jitsu. I would take it before jiu-jitsu and I would just roll and sweat and feel like I was totally fine versus when I didn't, I would get that feeling where you feel bogged down by the heat or whatever. So interesting supplement also has some anti-cancer properties in some studies. So that one, that one's one of those supplements I would say it's cool to take on and off kind of all the time. No, and that one, it doesn't matter nutritionally what I'm pairing it with or what my desired outcome is. I don't think you need to change your nutrition to take it. Whereas with ectosterone, you probably want to bump your protein. Definitely not as pronounced as ecti. Like ectosterone, you feel, but you also feel when it drops off. Cordyceps just kind of feels good all the time when you take it. The next one, I've actually given this one to you guys with, so for the audience doesn't know, this is one of my favorite things to do, right? Well, before we do a podcast. A lot of trust in this relationship. Yeah, it's great. Or before we create a new program or we're going to go do something that requires some creativity, I'll do like a supplement stack or mix for Adam and Justin. And they just take whatever I give them, right? So literally, I'll hand them some pills, some powder. It's like Russian roulette. Yeah, and I'll be like, here, try this, let me know what you think. Well, Lion's Mane is one of the things that I'll give you guys sometimes with caffeine. And you guys know now, we'll talk about it. Yeah. Lion's Mane is a, is a neutropic study show when people take it over a few weeks or six to eight weeks, I think some of the study show. It improves cognition. It's got some inzeolytic properties. So it's good with anxiety, helps with depression. I love Lion's Mane just for, again, for the mind. Yeah, this is one of those like I've been taking before our podcast and noticing that the longer a span I've been taking it, the more effective and the more I've actually noticed its benefits of, you know, the sharpness and me being able to recall information and things like that. Now, this is a supplement space as it exploded in the last, I'd say, five years or so. Is this one of the most common ingredients that are found in all these neuro supplements out there? Yes, because it's got some of the best studies. So there's a lot of stuff out there that promises to boost cognition. Right. But there's not a lot of science behind them. Like for example, I pull up a study here. This was, this was a study published in phyto therapy research in 2009. They took 30 older adults with mild cognitive impairment to take either Lyon's main extract or a placebo every day for 16 weeks. In the cognitive tests given at weeks 8, 12 and 16 of the study, members of the Lyon's main group showed significantly greater improvements compared to people with the placebo. So they see that it also, there's another study, check this one out. This was in biomedical research in 2011. They did a study and they found that Lyon's main protected against memory problems caused by the buildup of amyloid beta, which is what causes Alzheimer's. Alzheimer's. Yes. There's also a neuroprotective effect against ischemic stroke in the brain. There was another study with menopausal women that showed that they helped with depression. And then cancer, here's another thing about it. It helps reduce the size of cancerous colon tumors in mice and in Chinese medicine, Lyon's main is a, it's one of those anti-cancer plants or whatever, it's a mushroom. Now back to my point about all these neuro supplements out there. Now what makes the difference between like this Lyon's main and some of the synthetic stuff out there that claims to do the same thing? You know, people confuse stimulant with something that improves cognitive function. So a stimulant can improve cognitive function if the reason why your cognitive function is down is due to being tired, right? So if I'm like dragon ass and I drink coffee, I will have improved cognitive performance. But a real, like if we're going to be more specific for a supplement to improve cognitive function, it has to do it all the time. Not just because you're tired and you're waking up, like there's that famous study that was done on, I think it was Adderall or ADHD medication. People who take ADHD medication think that it makes them sharper or smarter, right? I remember seeing this. And they did a study and they found that it didn't do that at all. What it did is it made people think they were smarter. You perceive that you're smarter. Yeah, because they're more focused and enjoy what they're learning, you know, versus not taking it. But it really didn't improve any cognitive function. Lion's Mane has been shown to have a positive, actual real deal positive effect on cognitive function. So how would you describe these as like more of like a vitamin or a nutrient, you know, that made, the brain may benefit from in a different way that it's not getting. Yeah. So I wouldn't say it's something you take and feel right away. Although I do enjoy it with caffeine. It's what you said, Justin. You take it kind of on a regular basis. Yeah. And after about six weeks, eight weeks or so, you're just, you just remember things a little easier. You're a little bit sharper. I noticed a better verbal fluency. I can grab words easier, right? Whereas, you know, otherwise I would have to think a little harder. So it's one of those things. One of those things. But again, it's backed by studies and our experience. The next one, this one's really interesting. The name that you'll find it sold under is horny goat weed. You guys know why they call it... Kind of gets right to the point. It combines my three favorite things. Do you know why they call it horny goat weed? Well, let me guess, right? Like a goat was just roaming around the pasture and just started to eat one of those and was just randy on everybody. Yeah. So there were goat herders. Actually, this is a... I believe it's an Ayurvedic supplement, but there were goat herders noticed that the goats would eat this particular plant and then they'd go just have sex all the time and they're like, what's going on here? So they named it. So that's what they call horny goat weed. It consistently and predictably will raise libido in people, both men and women. I have the most experience with this one and the last one. And this one I used before I had my big coming off testosterone crash and then I used more recently when I was coming off testosterone. So I never know... We had teas that were horny goat weed. I never really noticed anything seven, eight years and beyond when I tried this. When I really noticed the effect on this was when I came off a testosterone and back in what was just now been three and a half, four years, maybe a little bit longer now, right around four years on the podcast when I shared all that. I mean, I went through like depression over coming down. And libido was gone. Yeah, libido was gone. Energy was low. Didn't want to train. It was a really tough time for me for about three to six months there. And you were sending me all kinds of different stuff to stack. I was taking this and ashwagandha and some other tongue cat alley and some other things you had me on. And I did notice a big difference in this. I noticed it would... Now, it didn't take me from a guy who had like no libido at all to all of a sudden I was wanting to have sex twice a day or something. But I went from somebody who like felt like their sex drive had completely gone away to at least wanting to have sex multiple times a week, which was a very big deal for me and in my relationship because that was one of the things that was tough was, you know, here I am. I've been in this relationship for that time seven years with Katrina. And because I'm coming off this testosterone all of a sudden it's affecting our sex life. And I don't care who you are. That's never good for the relationship. And so I was using that supplement during time and it really helped mitigate that. I noticed it then. I didn't notice it before when I had normal testosterone or high testosterone levels. Yeah. Is there a reason for that? Yeah, so in the studies they show that it will raise testosterone in men with low testosterone. Okay. So if you have normal testosterone or especially if you're on anabolic and they're high. Yeah. Ain't doing nothing. It's not going to do anything for you. Now, the compound in... There's a compound in hoarding goatweed and I hope I'm pronouncing it right. Icaron, I believe, is what it's called is a PDE-5 inhibitor. Again, I hope I'm getting this right. Now, this is a similar action to Viagra. Now, it's nowhere near as potent as Viagra, but in a similar way, it helps reduce the enzyme that breaks down nitric oxide. So, not nearly as strong as prescription Viagra or Cialis, whatever, but it's a natural boner pill. And this is legit. They actually test it and show that men's... What they say in the studies cracks me up. Erection quality. How do they test the erection quality? This is a good one. This is a good one, Sal. I can hang three rings on this one. I can just see scientists. Your last boner can only hold one ring. Yeah, five on it. Up the dose. So, increases erection quality. It's also good for fertility in some cases. And it consistently raised libido in men and in women. And in women... So, check this out, right? So, horny goatweed like other adaptogenic type supplements tends to balance out hormones. So, in men with low testosterone, it raises testosterone. In postmenopausal women, guess what it does? Raises estrogen. So, postmenopausal women will take it and they'll notice a rise in estrogen. They'll start to feel kind of better as well. Now, again, this is one of those supplements that you'll take. You'll feel it for about 45 to 60 days. And then it feels like it's not doing anything for you anymore and you got to go off. Well, again, I actually felt it consistently when I was going through the coming off. You did? Oh, cool. I did notice that with that. It was one of those supplements that, again, in the past, I messed around with, didn't think anything. When I was a kid, I remember hearing about it and hearing that it could raise testosterone levels and thinking that at 19 years old, I could take it and I would feel a difference. And I was like, this is trash. I don't feel anything. It wasn't until later in my life, into my 30s, when you recommended it to me when I was going through that. And I noticed a big difference. I mean, it was a consistent supplement that I took in that last year that I felt like it least helped me have sex sometimes during that process. Yeah, that's cool. And, you know, because it helps with nitric oxide, theoretically, it could be a supplement that helps with the pump. And theoretically, it might even lower blood pressure in people with high blood pressure because it helps open up and relax the blood vessels. Yeah, but it's, again, it's backed by studies and it's one of the more consistent libido boosters. So if you're dealing with libido issues or whatever, I would say try this one out and it'll probably work for you. All right, the last one is, it's got a lot of studies supporting it. You actually mentioned it, which was ashwagandha. Ashwagandha is a staple compound in Ayurvedic medicine. I believe the name means horse or something like that, or it might even be worse, like horse piss or something like that. Stinks. If you've ever smelled ashwagandha, it doesn't smell. I've taken it. I've never, like, you know, just smelled it individually. Oh, it's awful in liquid form. Yes, yes, yes. If you get the powder or pill form, if you can, it tastes terrible. Now, ashwagandha is one of my favorite other supplements. Well, isn't it up there with, like, creatine, as far as one of the most researched herbs? As far as herbs are concerned, I would say, I mean, ginseng is super, super researched, you know, but ashwagandha, lately, there's a lot of studies coming out supporting it. When I take ashwagandha, here's what I noticed. I get way faster recovery. I get way faster recovery and I seem to feel better with less sleep and feel better when I'm stressed out. It does help manage cortisol in people. It's definitely one of those if I'm feeling, like, a lot of stress and I'm carrying a lot with me, like, and I'll take it, it helps to alleviate that quite a bit. Yeah, there was a study that showed that increased power output with athletes. So it's, you'll notice you'll get stronger by taking ashwagandha as well. Now, is it matter how, with the doses, on something like this, is this something that you have to take a good amount for it to work or is it... You would take the amount that's done in studies. You know, here's the thing with all these compounds that we're talking about. You're gonna, when you look them up, you'll see in the studies that they used a particular dose and that there's a recommended dose. This does not mean if you take more, it's gonna be more effective. In fact, taking more sometimes makes them less effective or can cause problems. So don't make that mistake, and I'm speaking from personal experience, taking more doesn't make it more effective. Definitely take the recommended dose. Nothing more than that. This is also something that is found in our Organified Green Juice, right? Don't they have that in this? Green Juice does have some ashwagandha. It's just, it's one of those, it's a great overall, you know, makes you feel kind of better, you know, supplement. It raises HDL, it lowers HDL. It's great for infertility. In men, it'll improve. So I have a friend of mine who's trying to conceive with his wife and his sperm count was a little low. So he asked me like what he could take and there was other things I had recommended, but I also recommended ashwagandha and it made a big difference and they got pregnant. And this falls in the category adaptogens, right? Adaptogenic. Now explain that again to the audience on exactly what that means. Adaptogenic herbs or compounds are compounds that help the body deal with stress. So think of all the negative things that, okay, think about it this way. Imagine if you have a bucket. It's like one gallon bucket and that's your stress bucket. So every stress that you have, bad sleep, argument with the wife, I'm in traffic, you know, whatever, all the stress fills up that bucket. Once it overflows, now you're gonna feel like shit, no matter what. Like now your workouts are too hard for your body because you've already got too much stress. You're not feeling good, cortisol goes up, testosterone drops and women progesterone estrogen kind of get messes up and you just kind of feel crummy. What these type of compounds do is they make the bucket bigger. So now your body can deal with more stress and you get less of the negative effects. Oh, now that makes a lot more sense why it's in the green juice, since the green juice is something that you take more, like on a regular basis for you to do that to be able to handle more stress. So how would I use Ashwagandha? I would use it like this. If you're going to go through a period where, you know, maybe it's finals week. You're just had a baby. Or just had a baby like I did, right? Or you're about to go into a phase of training where you're going to do a lot more sets, a lot more volume, maybe pre-contest. Pre-contest for competitors is very, very stressful. It's not super common for them to get sick pre-contest. They're doing so much cardio and working out and diet or whatever. So anytime you see yourself going into a period like that, Ashwagandha would be a good supplement to help your body handle those types of things. I think it's also important right now too that you address kind of our stance on something. Because we're getting a lot of new people that are following Mind Pump, especially through YouTube and stuff now, and address our overall stance on supplementation in general. I know when we first started the podcast, if you've been listening since day one, you kind of know what that is. But if you're tuning in right now, and it might sound like we're like, oh, all these supplements are- It's a big billboard for supplements. Yeah, so to give you an analogy, if diet, exercise, and sleep and lifestyle were the engine to your car, supplements would be the air filter. So that's the difference that they'll make, right? So if I have a car and it's maxed out and souped up and I'm trying to squeeze one more horsepower or whatever, it's more like a decal. My Canon air filter might make it a little bit better or like an exhaust or something like that, right? Or down pipes. But it's not a turbo. It's not a supercharger. Those you're talking about, anabolic hormones, even steroids are probably not like a turbo or a supercharger. No, when you say diet, sleep, programming, I mean, those are the bigger ones. That's the engine. That's the nitrous. That's the turbo. All these other things are like the little bolt-ons like you were just using as an analogy. Yeah, so first off, I probably have a bit of a supplement problem. So I like to mess with things just to see what they do. But here's the reality if I'm being totally objective. I'll use these supplements like a Swiss Army knife. So, oh man, next week I'm going to be doing a lot of extra work or it's going to be really stressful. So maybe I'll start taking some Ashwagandha, right? Or, hey, I'm going to go on vacation with the wife next month. I'm going to start taking some horny goatweed so we can have fun. So I'll do that kind of, that would be the way I would say to use these things. If you're really dialed in, you'll notice. If you're not that dialed in, you might have trouble noticing that they're going to do anything. But I think it's fun to talk about. I think it's fun. And I love to hear you go deep on all these things. But I think it's important. And that's why I think we shared the story at the beginning, right, of like our journey of trying all these supplements. This is no different, right? If you're some young kid that's trying to build muscle, you know, the answer is not in these five weird supplements that's going to give you, you know, pack on five or 10 pounds more muscle. Or if you're somebody who's struggling with fat loss, this is not the end. Nor is any other supplement over the counter. These are not the answer to your problem. Like you've got to take care of the big rocks. It's just fun to explore once you have all your ducks in a row. And you've done all the work and, you know, the consistency is there. And, you know, you're accounting for nutrition, sleep and exercise and all that's kind of working out. So it's a fun thing to explore. Totally. Look, Mind Pump is recorded on video as well as audio. Come find us on YouTube, Mind Pump Podcast. You can also find all of us on Instagram. You can find Justin at Mind Pump Justin, me at Mind Pump Sal and Adam at Mind Pump Adam. This is the part of happiness that people don't usually understand. True happiness requires unhappiness. Why? Because purpose requires pain. To find meaning in your life. And, you know, pain is just incredibly sacred. If we miss out on pain, we miss out on post-traumatic growth. We miss out on experiences. We miss out on...