 Hi guys, welcome back to my YouTube channel. This is Daniel Rosel here. I'm here tonight outside a bar called Hashchina, just outside of Mahinei Huda Market in Jerusalem. And I'm here tonight to check out a book event, an interesting guy called Ghol Kalev has written a new book. It's called Judaism 3.0. Its controversial treatise is that Zionism or support for the Jewish state has become the fulcrum of modern Jewish identity. Is that a good thing? How long is that being the case? I caught up with Ghol just before the event to ask him a few questions. Hello everybody. Judaism 3.0 is a book that is about the current state of Judaism. Judaism is going through a historic transformation and Zionism is becoming the anchor of Judaism. I'm showing how both people in Israel, Jews, non-Jews, people in America, people that are for and against all relate to Judaism through the prism of Zionism, including in the negative. The book is really a survey of Jewish communities, of non-Jewish communities of the world, touch points with the Jews to show that Judaism is transforming just like it had 2000 years ago, that Zionism is becoming its anchor. And then I spent time in the end of the book discussing what it means, what it means both in terms of the opportunities that it unleashes, but also in how it can address the threats to Judaism. First and foremost, the existential threat of Israel bashing anti-Zionism, if you will, that have replaced traditional anti-Semitism as the currency of opposition to Judaism. Do you think that Zionism is being more of a unifying force or divisive for Jews in Israel and the diaspora? I think Zionism has become the meeting point of the Jew with his Judaism, whether it's in the positive or the negative. Whether we like it or not, American Jewry, which is about 80% of the diaspora Jewry, is in a trajectory towards evaporation. There is very low things that, you know, most of them are not religious, most of them are denationalized. Survey says that the most common connector is Jewish food. 75% of American Jews are connected to Judaism because they eat Jewish food, but they also eat Chinese food and Italian food. It's not enough of a sustainable connection. But Israel and the national aspect of Judaism, Zionism is. So for example, a lot of my American friends connect to their Judaism when they see an article in New York Times about the settlement, they get upset, and they write a Facebook post as a Jew. I'm embarrassed about Israel or something along those lines. Zionism puts them back into their Judaism and it's true in all of the gamut of positions, through support and everything that's in between. And also, let's face it, you know, people look at you as an American Jew through the prism of Israel. Whether you like it or not, if your name is, if you have a last, if your last name is Jewish, you walk into a college campus and somebody says, your people are murdering the Palestinians, you have to react. You can say, I agree, I disagree. You know, let me think, it forces you. Nobody is asking you about Jewish food when you come into college campus or about the Holocaust anymore or about religiosity. Israel is where the Jew misses Judaism and where the outside world meets the Jews. And that's what this book is about. I'm showing, you know, how that is becoming a reality today in the 2020s. And what does it mean? That's your question. So sometimes Israel speaks in the name of world jury as, you know, we see our job as being defending Jews worldwide. A lot of people like me would say, that's not Israel's job. And also it's not fair for Israel to kind of force itself upon people who don't want to be associated with it. So how do you feel about that aspect? Sure. I mean, like, nobody represents you anymore. I mean, this is, we live in a, in a world that there's choice, you know, in some part of the postmodern world. It's a, it's a world where you have a lot of identities. So of course, Israel doesn't represent you. I mean, Israel in our core, we feel responsible if you're ever in trouble as a Jewish person will come and save you. This is a core tenement of what, you know, the Jewish state is. We don't represent you just like, you know, you, we're not represented by, you know, any other one of your affiliation, you know, you might have gone to Harvard. Does the Harvard Alumni Association represent you? You have your own identity in relationship with Harvard. You might have a particular gender or sexual, you know, whatever it is that identity you are part of the, you are who you are. And other people might claim to represent, but you are who you are. What Israel does, I think, is whether you like it or not, you are defined as a Jew through Israel, whether it's in the positive or in the negative. So it's not by design and it doesn't really matter. Let's go back to Herzl. He understood that Jews cannot escape their Judaism. Whatever is the most relevant aspect of Judaism, there will be the aspect of Jews, you know, that people will relate to you. Not the most relevant aspect of Judaism is Israel and Zionism. And you can bash Israel, it's not going to help. You're still going to be affiliated with Israel. And that's, so that's what I'm showing in the book. We are in a different phase of Judaism. And that's by the way why the anti-Semitic, traditional anti-Semitic attacks against Jews are, you know, sad and damaging. But the attacks signed by Jews against Israel are the ones that have an impact and can cause long-term damage to the sustainability of Judaism. Do you see any future for diaspora Judaism in general? I hope so. But, you know, I think the future goes through the vector of Israel. I think as it is, the diaspora Judaism, and which 80% of it is American Jewry, is not sustainable. You know, Jews always be a nation religion. When the religious aspect, you know, was strong, then the religion was sustainable. That's no longer the case. And they did nationalize, they became, you know, they sort of reduced American Jewry to the Jewish church, but then became secular. So what it creates is that, you know, there's very little to hold on to that. I'm not saying it's not sustainable. Israel comes in and sort of, like, provides that blue to Judaism that other aspects of Judaism did not have before. Whether it's in the positive or to negative, again, this is what, whether you like it or not, that is the most relevant aspect of Judaism. Simple question. Zionism being the folk from a modern Jewish identity. Is that a good thing or bad thing? In my view, that is a great thing. That is the essence. In my personal view, this is, you know, it's a Herschel design. It is a Jewish concept. And, you know, there's somebody in the event here that, you know, so there's a religious aspect of it. There is, everybody can approach it. My book, you know, has people that are religious and secular and atheist and people from the left and from the right. Progressive, strong supporters, everybody. Zionism is designed by, he said, we have, we got Judaism in our hand. It is designed to serve as the focal point of Judaism as a mechanism for the Jews to return to their Judaism. And once they return, they can consume other aspects of Judaism, including the religious aspect. So, Zionism, in a sense, has saved Judaism, including American Jews that are critical of Israel, including those who claim they're anti-Zionism. Zionism is sort of a lifeline for them as well, back into the Judaism, assuming they want to stay Jewish. It's also, they're perfectly, you know, free if they choose to try to evaporate. But what I'm saying and showing in the book is that, even if they say we're evaporating, it doesn't work this way. You know, you're still affiliated with your Judaism and you're affiliated through Israel. And that's why Zionism is the construct that allows you to... What's your book called, American People's Lives? The book is called Judaism 3.0, Judaism's Transformation to Zionism. It's available on Amazon and Book Depository and Barnes & Noble and all the online sites. And in stores, in Israel, it's available in pomerans, in various other bookstores. My pleasure. The basic premise is that Judaism is going through historic transformation. Today's Judaism is very different than the Judaism that we had about a hundred years ago. A hundred years ago and really for 19 centuries, since the Jews were exiled from this place, Jews lived in the Aspera, in the Aspera, and what I call Judaism 2.0, 1.0 being when they were here. And they had an internal glue of religiosity, repeating Judaism, meaning the synagogue and the halacha and the canonization of their altura. And then external glue of complete insularity. Jews simply cannot get out of Judaism. But both of those have eroded as Jews became secular today. 80, 90 percent of the Jews are not sufficiently religiously observant to make that an anchor of their identity. And the Jews are no longer insular. They're free to leave. They're free to assimilate out of existence if they want. But at the same time, the religious anchor of the Jewish nation religion was eroded. The national aspect has been dramatically augmented when the State of Israel was founded. So as I show in the book, the first 75 years of Israel's existence didn't lead to a transformation of Judaism. And that is because there were a lot of hurdles. For example, Zionism was associated with secularism and even rejection of religion that wasn't by design. It wasn't in Herzo's plan, but that's how it evolved. And other aspects, including the Haredis that we like to speak about. And the ultra-Azulaks used to be anti-Zionists. They're no longer anti-Zionists. I agree in my book that they're a poster child of Zionism, whether they like to admit it or not, but the fact of... So I talk about all those hurdles. And I talk about trends around the world and global trends, such as the trend to have multiple identities that you're no longer just boxed in a particular part of your identity. So if you're an American Jew, even 20 years ago, 30 years ago, it would be weird if you would say that I am an American Jew. I'm holding an American passport, but I'm also having an affiliation with another nation, the Jewish nation. That would be strange because in America of the early days, certainly, you had a homogeneous narrative, the Mayflower narrative. If you wanted to be like your neighbors, the Joneses and the Smiths, then you basically had to reduce Judaism to the Jewish church. So just like the Smiths go to their church, you go to your church, but that's it. Now your neighbors are no longer the Joneses and the Smiths. They're the Rubios and the Rizzas and the Haredas. People who are from various parts of the world who celebrate their national heritage and identification while maintaining the strong American identity. So Americanism is built on sort of multiple branches centered and anchored in a strong trunk of Americanism. So you see today, you know, Vice President Harris is proud of our affiliation, Jamaican affiliation, and our Indian affiliation, Makarubio and Ted Cruz, the Republican senators are proud of their Cuban national affiliation, not their Christian affiliation, but their national affiliation. So, and that's no longer in conflict with being, with being, you know, there's no issues of dual loyalty or anything like that. So I'm showing out trends like this in the book have affected the state of Judaism and the transformation of Judaism that could not have occurred 70 years ago because of all those hurdles is occurring now in the 2020s. A lot of people thought that they can escape Judaism. All we got to do is convert and become, you know, baptized. And Herzl showed that the only difference is that they'll stop calling you a Jewish peak and they'll call you a baptized peak. So the same today, you know, you had something quite remarkable happen in the United States earlier this year, right around the time that my book came out, which is a synagogue in Chicago have got together to declare they are anti-Zionism, Zionism more so anti-Zionism is a core value of who we are and who we lead. And that's quite astonishing because it's exactly where so particular Zionism brings you back to your Judaism because American Jews, especially, look, you know, the ones who are not Orthodox, 90% of American Jews, Judaism is low in their hierarchy of identity. They don't go to sleep. They don't, you know, they don't think about the Holocaust. They don't do anything that is that serves as a very strong and sustainable anchor. But here comes Israel and Zionism brings you to your Judaism. Love or hate, I show that this is where the Jew meets his Judaism and where Judaism, that's how the arts and world perceive the Jews. So what does it mean? So on the one level, you know, I'm calling it the state of Judaism. So this is the state of Judaism, Judaism is transformed. Now we're in the Judaism 3.0 in Zionism, that's the argument. But I also spent time at the end of the book and also in many of my follow-up articles to ask what does it mean? And the way I see things right now is that the Judaism is under an attack, an assault. As it always been, there is always been illusions that the opposition to Jews is temporary. And her so identified something very, very strong. The European opposition, because at this time the Jews were mostly in Europe and the opposition to Judaism was European. Opposition to Judaism is chronic. It's permanent. It's not going away. It just evolves as European circumstances change and as Jewish circumstances change. So at this time, this is before the term antisemitism came, at this time people thought that Jewish entry is over. There's no more opposition to Judaism because that opposition used to be religious. You know, the Jews use the blood of Christian children and all those rituals and all those religious currencies. Once Europe became secular, a lot of people said this is it. End of history, no more opposition to Jews. So a few things that there's still Jewish to it. Here comes a new form of opposition to Judaism, which is a byproduct of the emancipation of Jews. Opposition to the Jewish is a nation because they're successful because they're this and that. This is what was dubbed later antisemitism. So antisemitism became the new form of opposition to Judaism. Today, traditional antisemitism, calling the Jews Rachel, control Hollywood, is damaging and it could hurt individual Jews, but it's not an existential threat to the continuity of Judaism. But Israel bashing is an existential threat to the continuity of Judaism. Israel bashing is also the primary reason the primary cause of attacks against Jews. I did an event with Michael Olin and said that 70% of attacks against American Jews, antisemitism attacks against American Jews in America are driven by Israel bashing or by Israel, by somebody being upset about Israel. So Israel bashing is both a threat to individual Jews, but also the survival of Judaism because Israel bashing has a mechanism to inflict severe damage. So for example, the international criminal court under the flag of Israel bashing is investigating all of us here today. They're having a broad investigation against Israel, you know, soldiers, people living in a settlement by the way Jerusalem is also considered a settlement on most international international law. So we're all potentially, who knows, we might go to Europe next year and get arrested. That's not happening tomorrow, but there is just, I'm saying that there is a mechanism today, there is no mechanism to take Jews, control Hollywood and convert them into an existential threat to the existence of Judaism. But there are mechanisms, you know, obviously other multinational organizations, you know, we're seeing what's happening now with this modern iteration of blood libel, you know, it used to be that we murder Christian children, then in the 1840s we murder monks, now we murder journalists. So, you know, we see how all of these energies are coming at the Jews this time through Israel. Now this doesn't say, you know, I'm very clear in my book that we should encourage criticism, even ones that are misinformed or I disagree with, but you know, the bashing of Israel, the lack of acceptability that we really have the right to be here, the right to defend ourselves, that is the form of Israel bashing that is an existential threat to not just individual Jews, including those who bashed Israel themselves, but to all of Judaism. So once you recognize that Zionism is the anchor of Judaism, then you can no longer hide behind this idea that you love the Jews, but you hate the Zionists. Just like maybe 2,000 years ago, or 1,000 years ago, you couldn't hide behind the idea that you love the Jews, you know, those that used to worship in temple and do the sacrifice and live in Judea, but you hate the Jews that celibate Hanukkah and were a kippah and stayed in Vishna and were in Abdel-Lachah, because that was the current iteration of Judaism. So you can say, once there was an acceptance that we're in Judaism 2.0, meaning that the religious aspect for winning Judaism is the anchor of Judaism, then you cannot no longer hide behind saying, I love the old Jews, but I hate the current iteration of Jews. Same thing today, you can no longer say, you know, once you accept this, once you accept it, and a lot of people do that we, that Zionism has become the anchor of Judaism, that I love the Jews that, you know, used to be religious and used to, but I hate the most relevant aspect of Judaism which is Zionism. And we have an asset, and the asset is that unlike in the past, it's no longer fashionable to say that you hate Jews. And the past was very normal. Theodore Herzl had friends who said that we're among the semi, I don't like the Jews, you know, for various reasons. Now, if you say you hate the Jews, you can get fired. This is like a bad thing to say, but if you say you hate the Zionists, you know, that could get you higher. That's like the rights of passage in certain circles. So once you accept that we're in Judaism 2.0 and Zionism in Judaism, then you are, the existential threat to Judaism gets mitigated. That doesn't go away, but it's a better platform or a better framework to counter that. So that's the, you know, addressing the threat that also unleashes a tremendous amount of opportunities. I'll stop in a few minutes just so we can have an interactive conversation, or if you want to have an interactive conversation. But, you know, a lot, you know, Herzl identified something. He understood that the Jewish state will exist not because of the moral obligation of the nations and of Europe, and not because we have a right which we do. And not because of the support we have from the Arab, you know, in his time, you know, the Arabs, the Mirafisal was a Zionist. And he understood that we will only exist if we will become the necessity of the world. He said the Jewish Jewish state will exist because the world will need it. It will be a necessity of the world. And Israel today has become such a necessity, but it's being hindered, you know. So we might have a great development, you know, that might, you know, save, you know, cure cancer, but somebody might say, no, no, no, no, no, no, the development occurred, you know, behind the 67 lines and no, no, no, no, no. You know, so we cannot spread the slide to the nations or other aspects that we have. We have this sort of like continuous assault at Israel that's not coming as much from the Middle East as much as it's coming from Europe and other parts of the international community. So once there's a recognition that, you know, we, Zionism is Judaism, then it opens and paves the door for much of the light that's emanating from Zion to be spread to the world and for Zionism to fulfill one of its mission, which is to be the light upon the nation of non-orthodox Jews today, Mary non-Jews. So that's the highest number. That's what defines you. Very similar to what you said. And the other one is criticism of Israel, because a lot of Jews are critical of Israel. For various reasons, like one of the Jewish leaders explained to me that, I mean, who was, you know, adamantly like at me cleansing all the kind of slogans that they throw at us. And they said, well, we have a horse in the game. We're getting attacked because of Israel. So we're trying to say, you know, yes, the Israeli Jews are the bad Jews, but we're the good Jews. You know, so yes, they do all those bad things, ethnic cleansing, you know, genocide, assault, Palestine, women on roadblocks, all that kind of stuff. All those slurs that you, and this is visual rule over again, because the same thing, you know, when the German Jews had all the Russian immigrants came in, and some of the Germans, Jews said, yeah, you're right, the Jews, the Russian Jews are a problem. You see them everywhere, the beggars, the peddlers, and some of the Jews according to some research voted for Hitler, you know, because they thought the problem, they wanted to make sure that, you know, we're German Jews. We serve in World War I. We have no problem. So, you know, nobody buys this in the American Jew that kind of bashes Israel, puts himself at risk and bashes himself. He puts himself at risk because, as we mentioned, you know, according to that statistic, 70% of attacks against Jews is because of Israel. So, in a sense, when the American Jew says, you know, Israel is doing horrible stuff in Palestinians, he triggers, you know, those attacks against him. You know, if somebody, if he says, Jews control Hollywood, that's less of a, less of a trigger. So, if you have to say something at that Jewish, you better off saying that you control Hollywood and that you're, you know, greedy and rich, then you'll be safer. But worse than that, you know, he, nobody buys it. So, I've done, as part of the preparation for the book, I've done, I've visited some sites that could be perceived as anti-Semitic and some alt-triphile right websites, and I looked at one of the slurs that I used against the New York Times and George Soros, two people that are not suspected of being Israel lovers. I don't think any of them have Israel's flags in their font screen savers or anything like that. But the slur against them is Zionist. The Zionist New York Times, the Zionist George Soros. Because people don't make the distinction anymore between Zionists and Jews. That's, you know, so, baby, a lot of the people that saw this book saying, like, I don't understand fine, you're saying something that's obvious, you know, of course Judaism and Zionism. But so, you know, so you cannot escape. So those Jews who say, you know, yes, we are the good Jews, you know, we're the good Germans, they're the bad, you know, the bad Russian Jews were coming at us in the 1920s. Oh, oh, weird today, the good Jews who are, you know, liberal and the Jews in Israel, you know, now the majority of the Jews are, you know, the one who is doing all those horrible things. You basically, the way that people hear it is that we, as Jews, are still doing horrible things. So we used to kill children. In the 1940s, we killed monks. Now we kill journalists. So you can't, it's ineffective to make that distinction. But to get to the point of the book is that you are defining yourself your Judaism through Israel, whether, you know, in this case, in the negative. So that's, that's, that's what it is. You are the one, you're the American Jews, critical or sometimes bashing, bashing Israel. You're the one who's proving that this is here because you're defining your Judaism through Israel. I'd like to say it sometime. Another way, if you're math, if you take an American Jew and look at all of his interaction with Judaism, you know, in a given week or a given month. So if you're an Orthodox Jew, then religion will be clearly number one, you know, but if you're a non-Other Orthodox Jew and unaffiliated Jew, if you're like one of the, what they call super Jews, let's say you're, you know, not, not religious Jew, you're maybe an atheist Jew, but you're involved in a Jewish organization, then that's fine. You know, you're involved in other Jewish causes. But the majority, the 80, 90% of American Jews who are under-engaged, if you had to map out all the Jewish related activities, transactions in a week, Israel will be number one in a wide margin. Maybe it's a conversation in the bar about Israel. Maybe it's a positive thing. Maybe it's like, I want to consume Israeli wine. Maybe it's like, I'm proud of, you know, going to the Dan Lachovic concert. Maybe it's watching, watching Fauda or Stissel or something like that. You know, you had, you know, or the negative as we talked about here, you know, you get upset about the New Times article. And the reason you get upset about the New Times article about Israel and some other area is because you feel Jewish. And as you're writing the Facebook post, as a Jew, I'm embarrassed. So you have, whether you're lucky or not, a connection to your Judaism through Israel and it's, and there's nothing you can do about it. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it. You can continue, you know, the trajectory of the American Jews to bash Israel and to pretend that you can draw some sort of artificial wedge that nobody buys, or you can just own it. And don't put yourself and your family at risk. Don't say that we're, you know, committing all those genocide and horrible things and assaulting Palestinian women in the world, but don't do that. Don't lie and don't invent stuff against us. Don't say we're killing Christian children or killing monks in Syria. Don't do that, because it's not helping you and it's just damaging you and putting you and your family in danger. Criticize us as much as you want. And the more you criticize us, that's fine, because that shows you care. Criticize us out of love. And that's what I think Judaism 3.0 is a platform to criticize Israel, to love Israel, to have issues with Israel, in whichever way you choose and whichever way you want. Europe's relationship with Jerusalem, with Israel, I view that as a 23-year 100, 2,300-year conflict. And I interact with it with my European diplomat friends, including very senior European diplomats and politicians who don't agree, but they interact. So I'm not saying this is like an angry kind of, you know, we have a conflict. There's an Israeli-Palestinian conflict, there's an Israeli-Arab conflict, but I think in thousand comparisons to some of the other world conflicts, the conflict in Spain, in Spain, in Catalonia, in Italy, in Tirol, Europe and Islam, we have a strong conflict, a big conflict between Israel and Europe that has lasted since the Greek invaded and tried to arrive and Judaism, tried to Hellenize us. The Romans started doing the same thing. And when we didn't work, when we refused to become Europeanized, then they destroyed our temple and kicked us out and kept us as refugees in Europe for 2,000 years, where they abused us and murdered us and deported us from one place to another. So that currency of hate always followed the relevant aspect of European society and the relevant aspect of where the Jews are. So what I'm saying is that when in 2,000 years in the diaspora, there was hate. And because Europe was religious, it had, you know, it made some clergy claim that Christianity or some, not just clergy, but the Christian researchers that Christianity was hijacked by European Jew hatred. So the hatred was expressed to Christianity, but it wasn't because that was the relevant currency of Europe. When Europe, as I said, became secular, then yes, I'm saying everything state, but it's staying in a different form. So it's no longer, you know, you guys kill Jesus and you guys are using the blood of children to make, you know, massas, but it is using the blood of, you're just killing journalists now. Maybe two points. One, they hate us. They continue to hate us, right? That's basically like a core print, a core premise that you have. I can use hate, the oppose. Okay. And two, essentially what you're saying is recognize that that's not going to change. Thus we need to find a way to accommodate ourselves. So making us ourselves essential to them is a way not for them to, they won't stop hating or opposing us, but they'll lead us to them. Therefore, they will kill us. It's a battle. In a way, it's a battle. It's a battle. It's too strict. And that is, that is, I think, what I'm drawing for my rabbi, Herzl, you know, who recognized that, who recognized that this is not going away because it is time a lot of people, one of his rabbis or one of the people that inspired him, he read his book, Moshehe. He wrote a book called From Rome to Jerusalem and Herzl took that book in his journey from Europe to Jerusalem. And Moshehe stopped. This is it, you know, once the power of the Vatican gets reduced and once, you know, the Europe becomes secular, end of history. And, you know, of course, we'll have a Jewish state because Jews will be free. And let's not forget that at that time, you know, until, you know, recently, a lot of the world wanted the Jews to come back including, you know, there was, you know, pro-Arzani, pro-Arzani stuff. So, you know, so I'm saying this is too strict because we have no other choice. And that peace to strike is not having, you know, nuclear weapons because we cannot outdo that is through our asset, which is the Jewish brain, which is, again, what Herzl and many Christian thinkers also in the 19th century identified that once the Jews would be emancipated from this European occupation of their mindset, they'll produce innovation that will alter humanity. We are still being opposed by Europe, you know, all this stuff, you know, they're going to soda stream and trying to close it. I mean, the path to peace is from our European friends and our my friends, by the way, you know, they're having the same conversations, you know, with them, you know, go back to Europe. Go back to Europe and let us and our Palestinian friends work it out. We can advise you about your own issues and problems, which is a lot. I mean, you know, some of those things we see in Europe are horrific. I mean, the images of French police approaching a Muslim woman on the beach and ordering her to take her clothes off are horrific. You know, there's not, you know, so there's issues in Europe that needs to be addressed. But those issues should not be directed at us. Europe should go home to Europe and stop funding all those, you know, anti-Israeli, anti-Palestinian organizations because they promote perpetuate conflict and hate to be planned. And we should help you in your struggles, but that is the path to peace. And not just peace without transparency. Peace between, you know, the conflict, the 23-year-old, 2,300-year-old conflict between Israel and Europe. And once that gets resolved, so to use your kind of framework, fine, maybe you want to call it, you know, messianic times or something like that, no problems. You know, some, an atheist might want to call it like the greatest time in our human progress that's fine, too. I wasn't pointing at it. You know, anybody can put their own framing into it. But I'm saying that we have to recognize exactly, as you said, that this is, that that position to Judaism is permanent. It is strong. We're still, you know, there is no, we're not going to address it by strong military or by others. We're going to address it by making, becoming the necessity of the world. And then over time, maybe the generations will forget it. You know, part of the issue is this sort of like religious arrest development that some Europeans had. You know, you know, it's a fastest-rising religion in the world is European atheism. This zealous, you know, like the reason that those Muslim women are being, what we call in the West, sexually assaulted by the police on the beaches of France is under the banner, it's a religious war in a sense. Because if we are a secular country and we're so secular and so atheist that if you're wearing, if you're not wearing your, if you're wearing your sneeze clothes, then we're going to make you take it off. Or if you're a woman who refused to have physical contact, you know, with your immigration office, you qualify for Swiss citizenship and congratulations, I'm giving you a citizenship, I'm going to shake your hand. It says, I'm sorry, I don't do that because I'm a woman, I don't have physical contact with men, you're going to deny your citizenship. That's horrendous stuff for us. But, you know, this is done in the name of this, you know, extreme secularism. You can say it's just a, you know, coat name for, you know, we want for Islamophobia and other things, but they say, no, no, no, we are secular. Secularism is a value for us. So, you know, so we, and this gets back to what I said earlier, what Americanism versus Europeanism. Once there's acceptance that Zionism is not just about aliyah, but Zionism is broader than that paves the path towards Zionism becoming the act of Judaism. So, yes, there is a, there is a, in my view, when you're sitting in your home in New Jersey and you watch Fauda, or you drink Israeli wine, or you buy a post as a Jew and I'm embarrassed about Israel, you know, that connects you to your Judaism through Israel and you're not here. So, that's cool. And it used to be, you know, in the 1950s that we did every Jewish year, you know, when our conflict, you know, I don't view our conflict to be with the Arabs, I view our conflict to be with the Europeans and our long-term, multi-decade survival of Judaism. So, you know, it's no longer a game about how many Jewish bodies there are between the, you know, the Jordan and the sea. So, it's not only about we need every Israeli, every Jewish year and how dare you not come to Israel as a Jew. So, as I mentioned earlier, in Judaism 3.0, the connection of the Jew to his Judaism to Christianity is an organic one. The Jew initiates it, whether it's by choosing to watch Fauda or whether it's choosing to write a Facebook post as a Jew and I'm embarrassed about Israel.