 All right, thanks for staying with us. Now, stories preserve culture and pass on culture knowledge from one generation to another. In essence, stories keep cultures alive. Stories provide a timeless link to ancient traditions, legends, myth, and archetypes now. But they also connect us to the universal truth about ourselves and our world. Now, referencing an article by Daniel Igbini, nation building can be seen as a process of constructing or structuring a national identity using the state power, which aim at the unification of the people within the state so that it remains politically stable and viable in the long run. And Nigeria continues to grow around the orbit of nation building without a genuine attempt to rotate it. What impact do you think storytelling can have on nation building and how can we begin to use that to transform our nation? That's the conversation tonight now. Let's hear what you have to say. Remember, you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to do it one, 803-846-63. You can also tweet at us at Weshaw, Africa with the hashtag Weshaw. So I wanted to hear your thoughts quickly. Then I'll bring in Victor Okai. What do you think? Do you think, because you see, I was just having a conversation with him at the lounge when he came in. I said, currently, Nigeria, I mean, we're in a political season and the same rhetorics. It's like definition of insanity. It's saying the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. The story I hear around, right? The kinds of conversations that I hear people drive around nation transformation and everything around Nigeria. It's still the same old story. We're not telling it differently. We're not changing the thought process. We're not changing the conversation. The issues are the same. No, the direction even of the conversation is still the same. So how do you then expect that anything is going to change or anything is going to transform in the nation? So for me, that was what informed the conversation for today. But let me hear your thoughts. Do you think, you know, how do you think we can transform Nigeria through like the right stories? I mean, this British monarchy that just, I mean, the passing of the queen has really sparked up a lot of conversation. But you can tell the British guys, they are very deliberate about the narrative that they want you to stick to. But let me hear your thoughts quickly. Like I, oh, sorry, let me just. Yeah, notes. I don't have an intelligent response like yours. So let me just watch this. I had said last week that we need radicals that are truth talkers because a lot of people don't have the integrity to stand up and speak the truth. They're too afraid. Like the something I said, my mother just born house. I just married wife, if you're afraid, how would you ever get truth to set us free? Be radical, speak the truth, start from yourself. Someone like me, I'm so bold, sir. They call me small, but mighty. As tiny as I am, I can face anybody and tell them what they need to hear. Truth, first of all needs to be told, not the embellished versions of what suits us. Okay, how are you, ma'am? Okay, so history was removed from secondary school, school in 2009, supposedly because the students were avoiding the topic, the graduates were not getting any job and the teachers were scarce. But this was a big mistake and they found out later because history storytelling helps us to preserve national identity, cultural identity. That's number one. A few weeks ago, I read a book titled Mark Suleyant's book, I Think Soldier's Opportunity and then I watched the phenomenal Baba Angira's autobiography, Bad Amosim. That's just a bad movie, you know? So I tell you the truth, you know I like this too because the book... Sorry, bad as in bad or bad. Millenials, the way they say call you bad, right? No, no, just so we're clear about, yeah. That's a good movie, yeah. That's a good movie, that's what I'm trying to say. It's so bad, exactly. So the book, The Soldier's Opportunity, reflects sweet, mesmerizing characters. We have Abacha, we have Abiola, we have Obasanjo. And then the movie, Bad Amosim, now talks about the whole thing that happened, but now it's coming from Baba Angira's... Perspective, his words. And I think every Nigerian should watch this movie and read this book because so many things are already lost in history. The reason you say that things are repeating itself is because you know there's so many people that this is the first time they're watching this movie that is going on in Nigeria right now. And then the book depicts the several near-death experiences that Nigerian encountered. And I think that we should go back to that time because that is exactly what's going on right now. Can I quickly add something before we move on? It's easy for them to tell the story. Like you said, like IBB telling us from his perspective. Yeah. Probably in a subjective manner. Of course. I've watched an interview where Formakov Noyos spoke with Uncle Denebomodou for five hours and 27 minutes telling the history of what he had seen in politics and business and everything. But at the end of the day, he also said, I can tell the truth now because there's nothing anybody wants to do to an old man. Do you understand? But when they were still benefiting from the things that they were being told, we never heard the truth. On that note, let me bring in our guest. Victor Okai is the former presidential candidate and the president of Directors Guild of Nigeria, the seasoned producer, scriptwriter, cinematographer, director and a film consultant. He's the founder and the director of In Short Film Festival, the biggest short film festival in sub-Saharan Africa and a member of the Nigerian Oscar selection committee. He's joined us live in studio and we're super honored to be having him have this conversation tonight with us. Thank you so much for joining us, Victor Okai. Thank you for having me. Now it's such an interesting conversation because I heard you like trying to interject money. But I'm sorry, I haven't noticed for so long. Go ahead, please. Apart from the fact that I'm outnumbered here. There's no cup in front of you. Exactly. I'm so sorry. No. So you can see. You shall bring it. No, it's fine. It's okay. Okay. We'll bring it. We'll bring it. Okay. We were used to it. We were so sorry. You went after him around. It was like... Sorry, we're going to talk about it. I wanted to say we're men here. It's an oversight. I know we men, you know, we are... A wonderful character. We men. We men, eh? I mean, Victor, thank you so much again for joining us this evening because this conversation is quite an interesting one. I was having a banter with you earlier. I said you have been in both worlds. You are in the storytelling world and you're also in the political world. Given that you run, you know, for the office of the presidency in Nigeria here. So tell us, right, because now I'm looking at the political scene, 2023 is around the corner. We here, we are always trying to focus on things that would provoke certain kinds of thoughts. And when I try to listen in on conversations, right, we're still telling the same story. I'll give you an example. The Messiah kind of story that we think it is a Messiah that would change Nigeria is the same story we're telling, regardless of, you know, what it is, the situation that's happening, regardless of what we have experienced with a Messiah that we had picked before, you know. And if we expect that Nigeria is going to change or transform, why are we still telling those stories? Why are we not changing the narrative? Why are we not driving the right, you know, message so that we can actually really, really see an effective transformation in the country? It's not so difficult. The politicians are clever and adept at what they're doing. I'll give you an example. You know what they say? It's bad manners to talk with your mouth full. I don't know if you heard me. It's bad manners to talk while you're eating. That's what she said. Let me put it better. Yes, so it's bad manners to talk when you're eating. But how come those same people who, when they're eating, we don't hear anything, when something suddenly goes awry, then they're all over the place, oh my people, my people, my people, I expect you to come and live your lives for them. That has been repeated over and over and over again. And what makes us most vulnerable is not about money, religion. That's a card to play. Ethnicity is another. I don't like talking about this, but let me just say this here. 2015, some of us were old enough, we knew who Buhari was. He had not changed, and he's never going to change. But those who packaged him were very clever. If you've seen a masquerade, the real person is behind the masquerade, the mask is in front. The Southwest, the mask, and the Southwest, and for many Christians in this part, the mask was Washi Bajo. So what you saw was a mask, which is not the real person. And then that's what you were going for. So a lot of people know, he's from our place. You understand? He's a pastor. Yes, he's a pastor. What have you benefited from this, from the mask you have put in government right now? And I say this, I'm going to be as dispassionate as possible. This is not about, because there's nothing I'm saying that we don't know about. And so you find that the same thing is repeated. When they go, you see whether it's Hausa, Yoruba, Igbo, Edo, whatever, when they're in the National Assembly, everything is just perfect. When the children are getting married, you should see them partying. It's one big party. They're all one. And then when somebody begins to lose out, then he remembers his constituency, and he invites them and says, they're trying to cheat me because I'm a Christian and they want to marginalize me. Oh, it's because I'm not from their part of the country and all of that. And the fools, I'm sorry to say, will fall for it as I've always done, again and again and again. Now, there's got to be a tipping point, and we're getting to that point. You think so? Yes, I know so. And the reason is that, much as I'd like to say education liberates the people, but I've seen very educated idiots in this country. Please excuse my use of strong language. You know, people who would willingly suspend common sense and call my little brother because they want to eat beef. We have so many of them. For them, I would say enlightened selfish, not yourself, selfish interest. What is the tipping point? What is happening right now? I want to say that there's nothing that, for instance, Peter Obey is doing. He's not even doing anything to help what is going on. Yes, he had the opportunity of speaking and people heard him, and he told some stories that resonated well within a certain group of people and all that. But what really made it work was what happened at the Leci Togate. That was like, you know, before now, young people or younger people were, you know, indifferent about politics. When it's time for election, I mean, they couldn't be bothered. Yes, they couldn't be bothered. For old people, they wouldn't go vote, you know, concern or all that. But when a finger was poked in the eyes of the young people, finally it was like, oh, and let me tell you what made it even more serious. You know, what started it all? What is end starts after all? End starts is war against yahu. War against yahu, yahu boys, isn't it? And so, and don't forget, these guys are also very, they are techies as well, you know? So, and so, any now threatening your gari will make you... Come out and fight. You will fight with everything that you have. Your liver will boil, even in cold water. You know, so that was really like, it was too close to home. And so, it was a personal battle. Apart from the fact that, yes, as they say, mechanic no let us know mad people again. So, you can't tell who is genuine from who is not. End starts, I mean, actually end starts, excuse me. So, if I say so on the sour everybody but stars, will now pick up both the innocent and you know, the not so innocent, you know, exactly. So, they will pick up everybody and so, and that part, they got drunk with it and so it's like, so that kind of filled their cup. And so, it got to a tipping point where they now revolted and then these people were able to, the real guilty ones, were able to, you know, fan it very well because it was in their interest as well. But it was also good that it happened because it has created an awareness. A generation has been ruling this country since 1966. That generation has remained a part both in, under the military, civilian, military back to civilian again. They remain a part and what's happening is even when they open up a little and bring in some people, it's not just when they begin to train their own children and their own students to take over from them. Now, yes, exactly. So, now this cannot go on for much longer. You saw what happened in Sri Lanka recently. So, what happened at that gate was like, I mean, they had had it to here and they now realize, look, we have, we're supposed to be the leaders of tomorrow but even our fathers never had a chance. So, are you trying to say to me that because of the incident at the Leci Toget, the Ansar's incident, it means that this story will change in 2023. Are you trying to say? No, 2020. What? The story has changed already. Okay. How? I'm sure you're, I don't know, but do you have your voter's card? Let me know because I'm sure. I don't. Do you? You don't. No, I have to ask citizenship. Anything, how comes I japa? Okay. Let's take a break. We need to take, like, the offer of steps. Step in us, we'll be right back and answer the question. All right. Thanks for staying with us. Now, if you're just tuning in, we're discussing the impact of storytelling on nation building and we have with us Victor Okai. Now, remember, you can join the conversation. Send us an SMS or WhatsApp to 081-803-4663. You can also tweet others at WeishuAfrica with the hashtag Weishu. All right. So, you were trying to explain the narrative that the story has changed because of the incident of the Ansar's protests. That's what you see. I beg to differ because we still have that Messiah syndrome with this new story that they're telling. Right? So, Nigeria has a problem. We have a huge problem on our hands and Nigerians always believe that, okay, once we put the right person there, Peter will be in all his accolades, right? If we reel out his whatever, he seems to be a good candidate, you know, to be able to run a good system in Nigeria. But it's just being good enough because we had this Messiah. That's not what I'm talking about. Okay, so let's go ahead. So, how did the story change? Yes. The story that has changed is simply this, that it's no longer what you call it, as usual. How do you say? Business as usual. It's no longer, it's not business as usual. If you like, it's no longer business as usual. In the past, you could take it for granted that, okay, this state is taken. Oh, the presidency is taken. You might say power of incumbency. You would have it and all of that. I don't think there's any candidate right now out there that is absolutely sure for the very first time. None, okay? And the dynamics have changed. If you look at it, if you see what's happening, let me get where the power shift, the dynamics have altered seriously. I look at a lot of you. Before now, the people who go to vote are mainly party members so that they can retain the status quo and then a few others. But what has happened, and you know, majority of the people who are registered to vote usually are not party members. And a lot of them don't come out to vote. So you'll see one million people registered, only three hundred and something thousand will come out on vote. What happened to the remaining 700 that registered? This time around, what is happening is, yes, the party people will start by their candidates, but that's no longer going to be enough. The people out there, so-called undecided, not because they're undecided, now they're decided, okay? But these people that were, you know, indifferent in the past have now decided that they will have a say in what happens in this country. And if you look at it right now, what's the youth population again, or voters now, not just the real youth population? I don't know if I understand. About 70% of the voters' population are youth. Okay. Let me use, let me use, but it's not with anybody, but I just want to do a bit of analysis if you allow me, because our job is to analyze. For those of you who look at, and will be for instance, he has no structure and all that. I say to win the election, you only need 24 states, I don't know what happens if we're going to do a 12 to a third again when the federal capital territory comes into play, but that's like 24 states, say two thirds, with one quarter and a simple majority. Is that correct? So which means you can win with one vote. As long as you have at least 25%, that's a quarter of the votes in at least 24 states. Okay. Now here's where it begins to become very interesting. In the past, an article would have assumed that... It's automatic. It's automatic in the southeast. People would just vote like Zumbi, I mean they would just vote for him there. He would assume that south-south through the same thing would happen, and then he would ask, okay, let me see how I can clean out the north, coming from the north. A tenable, for instance, would have assumed that the southwest is... Is taken. Is taken as well. I'm sure he still feels the same way. I'll tell you, I'm going to bring us some very interesting things, you know, perspectives that probably people are not looking at and they're not even discussing. Well, there are the three major ones. The other guy played himself out. Now here's where it begins to get interesting. The young people that have come out are at least 30% of the voting population. Let me now go to 70%. The ones that are now determined to take back their present, not just their future. Let their voices be heard. Who want their voices to be heard. And you find a lot of them going out there now in the so-called obedient movement, excuse my other language. And then not only that, you also find, the south is, forget what everybody is saying. They may vote whatever the state, but right now I can tell you, block vote, you will see them, they will go as one. Again, what is the second highest population of non-indigenous in any state? They are the Igbo people. In every state? Everywhere. True or false? Yes. Okay? It's getting more interesting, isn't it? Yes. So you may say there is no structure, but something is shaping out. The young people, say? I was going to interject, sorry sir. Yes. When they say about, oh there's no structure. We can hear maybe he wins the elections. An argument somebody said to me that made sense to me because I'm learning, was that okay, he wins the elections, he becomes president. What influence does he have in the National Assembly when the party members? Oh I can tell you straight away, that's not a problem at all. That's not a problem. You know how, there's a burden who are going to affect. As soon as you are, in fact, before he's even sworn in. The party will break in many of this, and they want all of them. They want to chop so they would. You see that the people inside there right now are loyal to the government. Yes. I said so. Went to a print. You understand what I'm saying. So a print had a list of people that were, I think it was article PDP, I said he's printing their names in case they are double ages. So that the other people they're working for will say that, okay, at least we know. So openly this is. You know why this is beautiful? OP is just a symbol of, if you like the frustration or the built up. I'm coming to the issue of the narrative. I'm telling you that the story has changed not that it is going to change. And it can be anybody. There may be, you may not have to be again tomorrow, but I can tell you that this new tribe will find another champion. One that sings a song that resonates or that strikes a responsive chord in them. And it's not about what you say. It's not about what you say. Because take note. During the end, some people wanted to hijack it and take ownership. We said no. Not about anybody. Okay? The same way, what has helped to be so far is that he's just going with the flow. The day he decides to take ownership and say it is about me, he might lose it. About me may mean you want to go and strike this. It's okay. You want to help yourself. You go and join. You want to probably party with another party or anything like that. You think it's about you. Believe me, they will find somebody else just like that. Okay? The story has changed. I can tell you what is happening. The drum beat that is playing right now is not music in the ears of the bigger parties. The old parties. They know. They never saw him coming. Now, whether you win or not, that's a different matter. I'm not going into all that. That's not my business. I've just tried to do a bit of analysis. But the song has changed and what they're hearing is not music in their ears. It's giving them nightmares. All of them right now, in the past, it would have been APC versus PDP. It's not the only case. It's APC versus Peter LB, not even the old party. It's Article versus Peter LB. And you see, what is happening here is Peter LB could have been Igbo, Hausa, Yoruba. It could have been anybody. Anybody. So right now, it's not about a tribal leader. Yes. Yes. So that's what this movement represents. I'm a student of movement. There's a video I usually use to illustrate, but it didn't occur to me. I probably have brought it here. It's a very short video. The nature of, let me use technology I know that we'll illustrate where I'm saying, talking about innovation and disruption. The nature of disruption, innovation and disruption is you never see it coming. You don't see it coming. Kodak, never saw digital technology coming. They looked down and they was like, who are these guys? You know, these people, those who were pure, who were, think curious. I think you would never catch on. Yes. Let's not talk about Nokia and Apple and Samsung. I know. And Apple. Blackberry. Blackberry and notaxia and bolts. Exactly. The bolt one, in taxi parks, you see them simply in their drafters. Or at the airport, they don't know what the time is saying. The same thing happened with the printing press. When typesetting started, in those days, Apple was called letter press. They would begin to do this things manually and all that. Yes. So when graphics says, forget it, can never be the same thing. So the nature of disruption and innovation, you never see it coming. And in the beginning, it would look like, they really don't see it coming. Yes. It looks like nothing. It's not attractive. It's not well formed. It's not well shaped. It's like a child learning to walk. You know, you rise, you fall, you rise, you fall, and all of that. But before you know what is happening. The child becomes a man. Exactly. So that is exactly what is happening now. And so the old parties, I said, oh, we have structures. We have people all over the place. You don't have any structures. You forget that. People make the structures. The integrity of your structure is the people. You talk about security. No matter how secure a castle is, it was said about the wall of China. It was as good as the people that were manning the gate. So let's bring it back home. Because we're running out of time, like joke, like joke. Just give me a minute. If we were to say that, what if you were saying, because I still choose to stay on the lane that the story hasn't changed. But from your analysis, I want to believe that maybe the story has changed. So what do you think? There's a disruption. You're not seeing it yet. So no, no, no. I have seen that disruption. The problem I have with the disruption that has happened is that... That is happening. Or that is happening is that the fact that we still believe that we need a Messiah. So regardless, it's not about... I don't think anybody sees that way. That's how Nigerians believe. But can I say something about the Messiah? Because you repeated this several times. I've said it several times. The thing is this, only one person is going to be there. Okay? So whether we like it or not... There's a symbol for every struggle. And that symbol must not necessarily look in any particular way. It doesn't have to be tall, short. It can be... These things, when they happen, leadership... Leadership is something that it could be circumstantial. If we're right now in a place where we're just walking in a bush path and all that and suddenly we hear a lion roar or we see a big python or something and we all panic. Or we hear something like a bomb. If a child is the only one that says, I know the way. Let's go this way. It becomes a leader at that point. True. I believe you. Do you understand what I'm saying? I want to... Okay, okay. I'm sorry. I just wanted to talk. Because I normally don't... I didn't get to talk. When you asked that as the story changed and he said yes and you said, oh, are we going to see a change in 2023? I believe that the change may not necessarily happen. But why not? I'm just saying. It could, it could not. But the conversation has started. The thing I fear is that if we get it wrong again in 2023 the momentum we gained from ENSA waiting for another four years after 2023 may take away the fire. And then some may even start thinking... Lighty, what I'm saying is that something has happened. I don't think there's any fire that is going out. I think the fire is just beginning to crack. I'm saying that something has happened. He said that we were gaining or an awakening started with ENSA. I'm saying now that, God forbid, if we get it wrong and we still get the same old same old in 2023, the fire may need to be blown for embarrassed in 2026. Let's ask about this fire because that's where I think I want to bring the other part of you outside of the politician, the storytelling part of you. How can we start to become a lot more deliberate about the stories that were put out in the mainstream media to help us continue to project what a proper nation should look like? Okay, so unfortunately the people that have been helping us to do this are even from outside. You hear political foundations like the MacArthur Foundation. You hear... What is this German foundation? Ford Foundation tells stories too. Yes. What they do is they don't tell the stories but they influence the stories. The sponsors. Yes. So it's Sahara reporter, for instance, getting grants to push their narrative. I mean, a narrative towards democracy or whatever, or good governance and all that. You find Anadeola, is it Fashio or what? Faiyu, for instance. They identify thought leaders like that and they begin to put money their way to see how they can help shape the conversations in the direction that they think the country should be going. Now, why I do not think this fire is going to go away soon is that by May next year when you have started buying a dollar for probably about 1,500 Naira, we're not going to find it funny anymore. Let me tell you, there's a whole new tribe out there, all the people that are doing japa or whatever you call it, when they go out there, something happens. Yes, you make the money, but you know, money, if you're not married to a rich man, you assume that it's all cozy out there, I can, this one is enjoying. You don't know what the curtains are covering. You assume that it's all woozy. You don't know what they're going through. You don't know what they're enjoying. Until you get in there and then suddenly you begin to say to yourself, I mean, this is hell. Even if it's just, I don't mind the driver. Don't get me wrong. Because it probably makes you feel more fulfilled. He understands you, he listens to you. He's always there for you, for instance. Now the same thing with our citizens that are going out there. You go there, you make all that money. Suddenly the peanuts you put in your mouth begin to taste like granola, because you see, you can't get the respect with the kind of money you make there like you would get here. And you're at best second-class citizens. You have to walk ten times as hard as your colleagues to be able to get halfway where they are. Okay? And then after a while, have you not seen people in high-paying jobs and all that, and suddenly they just drop the job and they're not doing it again? It's not that they're crazy, but it's just that they're not finding fulfillment and all that. And so we have a whole new tribe out there that want to come back. Now this tribe is highly educated. Financially empowered. And they are becoming more deliberate. If you notice, many of them are coming back into politics. And I can tell you that even from there they can organize themselves to come back. So even if you think the answers, for instance, part of the funding came from out there. From people who said, I like what you guys are doing and they were pumping the money. So that same tribe, when I say tribe, you know what I mean now, that group is dissatisfied. They don't like what is going on. Many of them also want to come back. Many of them would like in Nigeria. Yes, and they can come back. Absolutely. We run out of time. Let me quickly take comments. Good evening, ladies. My dear beautiful sisters of water, you say, in the impact of storytelling on nation beauty, in a nutshell, what happened during ENSA's episode when the youth demonstrated is enough for a change because the youth are tired. To the youth, they feel that Pitahobi is the Messiah that will take our great country and nation, Nigeria forward. According to your guests, there is no guarantee that it will happen like that. According to Stelida, that fire has to be there to keep burning. My name is Daniel Illo, your Waze Regular Fan. Thank you, Daniel. I have one more that will come to you, ladies. This is from Ade. Ade is in the UK. In my opinion, the youth has less blame because eradicating history in our secondary schools has led us to this problem. I was going to even come back to that, but we ran out of time. The valley of Nigeria and her heritage needs to be thought. The leaders in governance should be visionary. Most of our leaders in government are missionaries. A mission to embezzle from public funds, remit it abroad, send their families overseas and japa after the end of their tenure in office. Before, it's time for you to take over. Enough is enough. Lidia has dual citizenship. She's ready to japa when Nigeria is boiling. Quickly, quickly, quickly. We ran out of time. Let me just read one. Someone said nothing has changed. From the elections that have taken place in the off-season elections, it's simply APC against PDP. Which is what we were saying. Absolutely, Lidia. It stays the same. This is also Delta. The truth of the matter is that many Nigerians either failed to read in between the lines as your guests stated, or they have just been mischievous. Apart from the politicians who distort facts to suit them, what's suit them, what of the quality of reportage from the media? The same twist happens except few ones that decided to break through no matter what ox is called. The question Uwa asks about answers in labels and the Messiah theory was not addressed logically. Nationhood can be achieved if we are continually fed with falsehood. I recommend the book by Chinua Che Betaitu. There was a country. Absolutely. I had another comment quickly. Great topic at Waze. I must recommend Nance today. The way they organize themselves is shutting down the Lagos International Airport. I wish all will use the resilience used by Nance today during the next elections to vote out bad leaders. The ball is in our court and we will be in a cage again. Bobby Kennedy from Jalingo. Thank you so much, Sue. Before we go, I show you follow us on Instagram everywhere at Waze Show Africa. You can interact with us further. Drop a comment and more importantly follow Ola engagement. Thank you again, Victor Kai. Thank you, ladies. If you missed today's quote, here it is again. A nation's culture resides in the heart and the souls of its people. This is from Mahatma Gandhi. We'll see you guys live at 8 p.m. tomorrow to bring another great conversation to your screen. Enjoy.