 Good evening, private property family, happy elections day. I hope you have all made your mark today. And if you didn't get a chance to do so, we have until 9 p.m. to do that, it is really the right thing to do. Welcome to the public, to the holiday edition of the public of the private property podcast. For those who are new to their family, my name is Martha Shingange and I get to guest host the show when Zamanit break or has other commitments. And of course, I'm a proud top fan gang member of the private property. Of course, it's a joy to be behind the camera and not only on the comments section, which is always lit. And I look forward to reading some of your comments as we get on with the show. And as you know, private property brings you a range of shows to cater for all your different property investment needs. So whether you are starting out, you are growing your property portfolio or looking to diversify it, you will find something that appeals to you. And if you are like me, you are tuned in every weekday at 8 p.m. after this podcast for the other great shows. And that starts with the Home Shoppers show, which is of course on Mondays and Fridays with Chad, aka Mr. Crème de la Crème. On this show, you get to be wowed with some of the most gorgeous properties around South Africa. Bali is on Tuesdays and Thursdays with a farming podcast with all agriculture and farming related topics. By the way, I'm currently enjoying the gardening series and I'm getting ready for my roll up film that we learned about last week, I think. So if you really want to know why this is all about Bali, she's not just a farmer, she is an award winning farmer and she's on Tuesdays as well as Thursdays. And if you want to know how other people got into property investment and how they are growing, don't miss the first time home buyer's show on Wednesdays with ST. And we still have our exciting competition going on. All you need to do is check the pinned post on our Facebook page and share your biggest property advice that you've learned from the private property podcast since we started last year. You, of course, stand a chance of winning 500 rounds for your common and the amount could be more as the prize rolls over when our winner unfortunately doesn't claim it during the show like it happened on Friday, which has now taken our prize money to a thousand brands that is up for grab this evening. It really is that easy. And of course, remember you have to be watching the show live to claim your prize. We will reveal tonight's winner later on in the show. Do let us know what you have been up to this long weekend as it has been a long weekend today being a public holiday for voting for the elections of the local government. And for me, it was a super extended weekend after I took off, I took a day off on Friday for the real estate industry summit. Oh, man, what an incredible event that was. Remember that you can watch it over and over again if you happen to miss it or the other segments that you really enjoyed. You can always go back and watch them again. And the rest of my weekend has been rather quiet. I spent it doing absolutely nothing. No, but let's get tonight's show started. We are starting off the week this evening. We are in conversation with John Graham. John is a property inspector and is also a manager. And we are talking to him about key considerations for a home inspection. Welcome to the show. Welcome to the show at John. Good evening. Good evening, Martha, and thank you very much. I also had a great weekend. I spent today with my 10 grandchildren and three daughters and my wife and a couple of boyfriends. So it was a lovely family day after I voted because I got out early in the morning before the Cape Rain debate. So thank you for having me on your show. That is absolutely beautiful. Family is everything important. Lovely having you all the way from the Cape, a raining Cape. I must tell you that Carlton, it's rather very, very warm. We've, you know, we are really frying for the past few days. It was raining on Friday, but it's been since very, very hot over the weekend. So I'm glad that you are enjoying some rain in the Cape, hoping that we'll also have some rain over this site. Thank you. Crystal, now John, getting into our discussion for the evening, buying a home is really one of the biggest achievements for many of us. The euphoria that all excitement from a transaction such as this can soon turn into a nightmare when the owner then realizes that there are some defects and problems with their new investment. So how important is it is to have home inspection before falling in love with that property? Martha, I think it's incredibly important. But sadly, in South Africa at the moment, probably less than 1% of the properties that are sold are inspected by a professional inspector before. And that's very, very low by worldwide standards. For instance, in North America, 8 out of 10 properties are inspected independently before the buyer finally commits themselves to the purchase. And that makes sense. We don't buy a secondhand car without getting it checked. And it's against the law to take ownership of a secondhand car without making sure it's roadworthy. That's a legal requirement. But a house is a much bigger investment. It's an emotional investment. And yet sadly, up to now, most people in South Africa simply buy with their heart and knock their head because home inspection is not well known. In many cases, state agents haven't supported home inspection as they have elsewhere in the world. But all that's changing because the government has passed a law, the Property Practitioners Act of 2019. And that's been signed into law by the state president. But unfortunately, because of the COVID pandemic, the regulations haven't been finalized, so it's not law. But that's going to have a huge impact in terms of protecting consumers, property buying consumers, from making a mistake and paying too much or not understanding the condition of the roof for the stormwater drainage or whatever it might be. And Martha, if I might just by way of context also a lot of very interesting statistics has come out regarding the South African home market recently. Companies like Betterbond, which are the bond originators and Lightstone, who are the property statistics people, among others have pointed out that first-time buyers are now dominating the market. 70% of house sales in South Africa this year are people who are buying a house for the first time. And the amazing thing is that two-thirds of those first-time buyers are women. Now, this is a complete game-changer in South Africa that women in all areas of the country, but especially in Kharteng and KwaZun and Tal, are dominating the market. And I think women are cautious people. They're sensible people. They're often of formal prudent in terms of making sure they don't waste their money. And I think it's very, very important that the government pushes ahead and gets the property practitioners act into operation so that buyers can be protected and that sellers and estate agents are forced to disclose the precondition of the property. And of course, the only accurate way of disclosing the proper condition of the property is to get someone independent and professional to climb onto the roof and into the roof and to understand if the Giza installation is OK or the electrical installation or whatever. So that's a context for property inspection. It should be a growth industry in South Africa. It should be a giant in the real estate industry. But up to now, it's not. But hopefully, that's changing. Wow. You've really shared some very settling statistics, but also quite exciting. I mean, I'm not shocked. John, I must tell you that you only have only 1% of properties that are professionally inspected. I mean, I was sharing with you just before we went live that when I bought my first property in 2008, and that was quite a big investment that I made. But believe it or not, I went in and I was just so excited. The house looks so nice. The furniture, everything just looks so perfect. I didn't even open the carpets. It's only things that I'm learning now through the private property podcast of the fact that you really, really need to be involved. You must look. You must flash things. Check is everything going. But I really am not surprised because I made that very same mistake. And I almost paid a quite handsome amount when I realized that there was just one or two things that were not right. But unfortunately, we're all signed at the bank and already paid. So it really was a bit of a costly mistake. But I'm quite excited about the increase in the number of buyers, particularly first time home buyers. And of course, I'm biased to women. So that is something that I find quite exciting. So yeah, but I'm also quite encouraged to know that government is really doing something because we really need that kind of protection. I just want to acknowledge, John, some of our viewers. I can see the love that they are sharing on our Facebook page. We've got Bongani Queen Bee, Mabunda saying, hello, Fem. Hello, Manata. Manata, it's like my sister. So she's saying hello, sister. So hello, everybody. It really is so nice to see everybody on the show. Quite, quite exciting. Yeah, to Mayaki. So hello there, Mantua and Victoria. We see you. Hello there, Menzi Butelezi. I see he's on this evening. Hello. Quite exciting to see you guys. As we continue, and you really have already touched on a few things, you know, about a home inspection. So maybe let's drill on to it a little bit more. What should we be looking out for when we're inspecting that home that you want to buy? From a layman's point of view, Martha, obviously you can see a lot. You know, if you walk through, you say you didn't open the cupboards. Now, one of the important things to do is not only to open the cupboards to see that the cupboard hinges are in place, but very often in a bedroom, you will get a bedroom backing onto a bathroom. And quite often, if you open a cupboard where on the opposite side of the wall there's a bathroom, you might find that this black mold is damp. There's a wiffy smell in the cupboard, simply because the wall between the bathroom and the bedroom is damp. And that's dangerous, but it also indicates either that the bath or the shower was properly sealed. It might be that there's a plumbing pipe in the wall that's leaking. The water might be coming in from the roof and then entering into the masonry at the top of the wall. You often find that in the kitchen too, if you open the cupboard under the sink and you smell and it doesn't smell very nice because the waste trap underneath the sink is leaking and at its damp. And you might see evidence of damp in the walls. You might not see it. Maybe the house has been newly repainted. So there are a lot of things that you can't see. Wall cracks are easy to fill, but they might reopen again if the ground is moving. It's not very commonly known, but most of South Africa's big cities are built on what's called problem soils. And a problem soil is a soil that keeps on shifting. You've got the house that's built on top of the ground. And if the ground is not stable and if the foundations are not properly designed, the ground will move and the house will crack. And so, for instance, in large parts of the country, parts of the Cape and large parts of Houteng and the Free State, in some of KZN, there's a lot of clay. And clay has a characteristic that when it gets wet, it expands. And in the dry season, it shrinks. And so the ground is moving. And if the foundations have not been properly designed by an engineer, the house will crack. And then in some of the coastal areas, you get what's called collapsible soils, which are sandy soils. And again, so most parts of South Africa need proper foundation design. And the municipal regulations call for what they call a competent person to do the design, which is basically a structural engineer. But in many cases, that doesn't happen. And the concrete is too weak or there's not enough steel in it. Now, if you walk into a house to buy it and it's looking fine and you can smell a new paint, it might very well be that the owners simply covered that up. If you don't physically get on a ladder and climb up and have a look on the roof and look on the top of the chimney and behind the chimney, you don't really know are there leaks, are there potential leaks? How strong are the roof timbers? How safe is the geese installation? Is the ground properly sloped away from the structure? So in a heavy rainstorm, there was a huge rainstorm in Cape Town today. And I said, I went over to see all my grandkids. And we were at my daughter's house in Pinelands, and she's just recently renovated. It spent quite a lot of money. And her scullery and garage flooded simply because the builder didn't do proper drainage outside her scullery door. Fortunately, it's cement floors at the stage, so damage is not too much. But those are the sort of things that a professional who has been trained in South African building regulations and who's inspected hundreds of houses, he or she mostly he's because ladies don't often like to climb into dirty roof spaces and on top of roofs. But a professional will see things that the layman simply won't see. And so I think there's a great need to train up a class of home inspectors who are trained to inspect existing buildings built according to South African standards. No, absolutely. I mean, it almost sounds like buying a house is quite risky, especially if you don't do the proper checks. But from what you're also explaining, this is quite involved. And there's probably quite a lot of paperwork that one will need to get from, whether the municipality, to make sure what are the plans. And these are things that the layman's eye would not see. So but then I've got a question, John. Sometimes you are interested in this property, right? And you're so excited. And now there's a bit of pressure from the seller or the agent to say, now you really need to sign off this OTP, you really need to. Otherwise, we've got other buyers that are interested in the property. And you just feel so much under pressure. So at what point should one have the property properly inspected before signing off? With our company house check, we always advise when we issue a quotation, we say, make your OTP. That's your offer to purchase, subject to a satisfactory home inspection. And obviously, the seller can refuse to accept that condition. But if the seller refuses to accept the condition of a satisfactory home inspection, then I think the alarm bell should ring for the prospective buyer. And he should say, well, what is the seller perhaps hiding? And so our suggestion is give yourself four or five days after the OTP has been accepted by the seller to commission an independent inspector, send the inspector around to the home. You need to make sure that the inspector has been properly trained in South African building law and building regulations and understands buildings. There's a lot of inspectors in South Africa who operate in terms of American training, which doesn't really help very much in South Africa. So you need an experienced trained inspector. And you need an inspector who's able to deliver a report quite quickly, because you quite rightly say that the real estate transaction is always under pressure. And the estate agent and the seller are saying, I've got other buyers in the wings, et cetera, et cetera, not so much today because it's a buyer's market. But if you make your offer to purchase, subject to a satisfactory home inspection and make it clear, and Haaschek gives you the exact wording in their quotation letters, make it clear that satisfactory means satisfactory to you as a potential buyer. So that when you get the inspection report, you say, I'm happy with the condition of this Haaschek. Or no, the inspector has said it's going to cost me 100,000 to fix it. Therefore, obviously, I can't pay what I would have otherwise offered. I must reduce my offer or I must walk away. So I think it's critical to make your offer subject to a satisfactory inspection. But if I may say, once the government finally gets to act together and makes the property practitioners act effective in this country, as I said, it's already law, but it can't be implemented until the regulations have been published by the Minister of Human Settlements. But once that happens, everyone expected it to happen in April this year or we said in November and it hasn't happened yet, it's going to put a lot of subtle pressure on sellers and agents because Chapter 10 of the Property Practitioners Act it says that it will be mandatory. In other words, there will be no ifs or buts about it for a seller to provide a written declaration of the condition of the property to their best knowledge. And it will be mandatory for the estate agent to make sure that the seller makes such a written declaration, signs it, and that that declaration is given to every prospective purchaser of the property. So that's at least halfway because now the seller is putting their head on the block and saying, the roof is OK or the note cracks in the wall, et cetera, et cetera, to the best of my knowledge. So if you later find out that the seller has used a lot of poly filler and paint to cover up moving cracks or whatever, it will be easy for the seller to get legal satisfaction. But I think in practice, what's going to happen is exactly what's happened in the United States. As soon as the seller and the estate agent have to make a legal declaration which becomes part of the legal agreement of sale, they will then cover themselves by saying, well, we don't want trouble. We don't want to be sued. So Mr. Bayer, Mrs. Bayer, get an independent inspection. We are also looking from Housecheck's point of view with the aspect of saying, well, let's offer a lower cost critical point inspection to sellers so that the seller, even if they haven't got the money and they only pay on transfer, can get what we call a vital inspection. So we're not talking about dirty carpets or minor blemishes in the house or stuff like that, which the buyer can see anyway. When the buyer walks through, they can see if the walls are dirty or if the cupboard door is halfway off the hinges or whatever. But they can't see if the roof's leaking. They can't see if the house is going to flood. They can't see if the geese might be about to explode because it's been badly installed and illegally installed. So a vital inspection will enable the seller to say, yeah, Mr. or Mrs. Prospective Bayer, here is an inspection report by an independent expert declaring to the best of our ability the condition of the home. Then no one gets sued. Everyone knows what they're buying. And everyone can sleep easy at night. And I think that's going to happen. But it's been very frustrating that we've been talking about this act since, I think, 2015. And it was finally passed in Parliament in 2019, where we now nearly through 2021. And the poor consumer is still blowing in the wind, so to speak. Yeah, let's really hope that the walls are going to roll quicker. Because really, from what you're explaining, the buyer will now enjoy more protection because there is nothing as devastating as having to pay a fortune to fix up our problems with the property that you bought unknowing that it had actually all of those issues. And let me go to our Facebook community just to share some of the comments. I see there's Queen Tarko saying, we love you. Martha, I love you too, Queen. I love you guys quite a lot. We've got Rita, Sean West saying, informative session. So thanks to you, John, for all the insights that you are sharing. And I do have two. Let me just take one comment, because I do want us to go on a break so that we can announce this evening's winner. I do have a question from Pindile Miss P. Mgomezulu, who is asking, how do we get hold of private inspectors like yourself? Where do we get to, John? Pindile, you can find lots of private inspectors on the web, if you simply Google Home Inspection, you will find them. Or our company is Housecheck. I also run a company called Sahita, which trains home inspectors and building inspectors. We developed, in conjunction with various governmental bodies, a building inspection qualification a couple of years ago. And so we train inspectors for our own business, but we train inspectors for rival businesses as well. And what's quite interesting is one of the big banks, and I think I can mention their name, Standard Bank, has launched quite aggressively a Home Inspection project. So Standard Bank is starting to say, independent home inspections are the way to go. Because first of all, they're good for the consumer. And secondly, from a homeowner's insurance point of view, if you know the condition of your roof and if we as insurer know the condition of your roof, then it's not going to be a problem if there's a hillstool. Because the claim won't be repudiated. So I think gradually the corporate world is starting to move into that space and saying, we need to protect the consumer. So the internet is a way to go to get home inspectors. Or you can go directly to my company, www.housecheck. OK, great stuff. Thank you. I probably shouldn't have said that. I'm sorry about that. Not really. Well, you're on the show. You are on the show. So there you go, Piliili. I hope that answers your question. So John, as I indicated, we now need to take a short break. At this point, it is time for us to announce who is the lucky winner of our very exciting competition. Now, this person has commented on the pin post on our Facebook page about their greatest advice or lesson that they have learned from the private property podcast. So this evening, the winner of the 1,000 cash price is likely to be. And let's see from the random Pika who our winner is. All right. I am so excited about this one because I know she's always, always watching the show. And I really am crossing my fingers that she is watching this evening. And that is Sendy Chabekia Stemmet. I hope she is there watching this evening. Sendy, please do show yourself on the comments section. Congratulations. Congratulations. And enjoy your prize. I really am crossing my fingers that you are watching once again this evening. Well done. So John, we do have a couple of minutes left to our very exciting conversation this evening that I think even our viewers, they are really just enjoying this conversation. So let me take another question. And this one is from Teppo, Moses Mouhabudi. And Teppo is asking, what happens when you realize some effects? I think you wanted to say defect, like leaking, or anything else after you've signed the OTP. And this is just what we're discussing. You just signed the OTP. And also the inspector did not notice or note that down. What happens? OK, well, I think the two questions there, one is what happens if you notice a defect after you've signed the OTP. And then the second question is what happens if the inspector also didn't notice it. Am I correct? And check it out. Correct. OK, so let's deal quickly with the first one. At the moment, our law has this principle of food stewards, which is an old Roman Dutch principle, which simply means that you buy as is. And it can also let the buyer beware that the buyer needs to look at the property and satisfy herself or himself as to the condition of the property. And they mustn't come and cry to you to the seller later that something is not right. So that's where we are until the Property Practitioners Act comes into being. When you buy a secondhand house in South Africa at the moment, you are buying it food stewards. You are buying it as is. Once the Property Practitioners Act is coming to being, or, and let me say this, if the seller has made a written declaration in the spirit of the Property Practitioners Act, and my advice is don't wait for the government to bring this act into being. Actors, if it's already in being already, insist that the seller makes that written declaration, which is what the act calls for, and insist that you want an independent inspection. So that brings me to the second question. So what happens if the inspector makes a mistake? And the inspector, you've paid him or her some money, and they've gone and done the inspection, and they say the roof is OK, but the roof's not OK. Well, most home inspectors will cover themselves. They will call themselves quite rightly generalists rather than specialists. And so they will always have their Ts and Cs in the fine print saying that it's not a warranty what they're doing. After all, they're only there for a couple of hours. They're not doing anything invasive. And so they can only report on what they see. But you should ask your inspector, have they got professional indemnity insurance cover? Because any human being can make a mistake. And if you make a mistake and it costs your client money, then you should have some sort of financial ability to pay the client for whatever that mistake is cost. And so if you are looking for an independent inspector, first of all, find out how qualified they are, what references they have, are they members of something like NBSA, the National Association of Building Inspectors of South Africa? Have they been trained by Saeeda? Do they have professional indemnity cover? And have they got a track record? Does that address the question? I don't want to run away from your question. No, no, no, you have. I think you have. And the important part that I'm picking up is the indemnity, because it's quite important, because as an inspector, obviously there could be things that you are going to miss. So that is quite important. So there you go, Tepo. I hope you've also been answered, because I think for me it was quite clear. It seems we are not finding our winner as yet. It's quite a pity, because I did see a comment from Sandy earlier. So wow, Sandy, if you are there, please show yourself in the comments. Let the team know that you're watching so that we can get that 1,000 rents over to you. I mean, that would be a great way to start the week with 1,000 rents for free. So now I've got another question, John. And this question now is from, just excuse me for a moment. I like to this question. It is coming from Arabele Liroge. And that is the one question that I wanted to ask as we are ripping up. And it speaks to the opportunities in the industry, in home inspection. And Arabele is asking, where can we apply to be a home inspector? And she is asking about the salary as well. Does it pay, John? What are the opportunities? OK. I think the opportunities are going to be very enormous, but they're not big at the moment. As I said, only less than 1% in our estimation of properties are being inspected, and very few of the lower price properties saved from between 500,000 to 2 million are inspected. It's mostly the wealthy people's houses that are being inspected, and they are paying the fees. So for instance, house check, as I said, is developing a vital inspection product to make inspection more accessible for people no matter what the value of the houses that they're buying. But as the industry grows, our estimation is that there are going to be about 10,000 jobs that can be created to inspect virtually every house at point of sale. And the training that needs to be done must be South African training. South Africa has excellent building regulations, and there's absolutely no point in being trained in American building regulations or British or Australian. We live in South Africa. We need to know what the law in South Africa says. And so the South African Home Inspectors Training Academy, that's the full word, Sahita, S-A-H-I-T-A, is an excellent and full disclosure. I was the founder of Sahita, but it provides thorough training in the Quality Council for Trades and Occupations Approved Curriculum for Building Inspectors. So in my view, that's the first step. And the second step is to pressure for the Property Practitioners Act to come into being, because it by itself will unleash many opportunities for trainee inspectors. It's interesting, Marthe, if I've got a minute. One of the other big impacts of the Property Practitioners Act, apart from consumer protection, is transformation. There's, I think, two chapters in the act, which simply points to the fact that the real estate industry in South Africa is still heavily dominated by white people. And people of color have had difficulty penetrating that industry, both from an agent point of view and also an agency ownership point of view, because it's commission driven, which means that it's different to a salary. And my thinking is that one of the points of entry, which would be easier for many people, would be as a property inspector, rather than seeking to own Pam Golding or CIFS, so one of those people, because not many of us have 50 million or 100 million to get involved at that level. But the industry is going to change, because the government has made its inputs. And perhaps after this election, things will get going. But the property inspection industry is a positive industry, because you're seeking to do good. You're seeking to throw a flashlight of transparency on the most important transaction in anyone's life to buy a home and to make sure that everyone is happy and that it's a fair deal. And that's a wonderful industry to be in. No, it is. Now, I'm quite excited as well about these opportunities that seems to be in the pipeline. And we are going to be watching those developments to see how it's going. John, it really has been so great having you on the show. I see we still have quite a lot of comments. But unfortunately, we'll run out of time, because we have another show coming up shortly. Thank you so very much for spending your holiday evening with us. We really, really appreciate it. And hopefully, we'll be in conversation soon. Thank you so very much. And good night. Thank you, John. Thank you, Martha. And good night to you and to your viewers. Good night. Thank you. Great stuff. And that was John Graham, who is a property inspector and a manager, chatting to us about the key things to consider in home inspections. I'm also very excited that you are ending this show on a very high note, because I believe that Stendi has claimed her prize. So once again, congratulations, Stendi. Do enjoy it. Guys, summer is back tomorrow evening. So please remember your date with her at 7 PM. Let's head over to the home show pasture with Chad at 8 PM to see which multi-million rent you mentioned we are going to dream about buying this evening. So until next time, it's goodbye for me and everyone at Private Property. I say, guys, stay safe and good night.