 One of the things that you say, I think in the more beautiful world, our hearts know is possible, you say that our civilisation is facing a phase of transition, a transition from an old story that you've called the story of separation to a new story which you've used as the language of interbeing you've also used as the idea of the age of reunion so this way in your thinking we're in this sort of transition. yn y gynhyrchu'r storio a'r storio newydd. Wrth gwrth i ddweud o'n dweud o'r cyffredin eich ddweud o'r momentau ar y cyfrif donc, roeddwn i ni i ddim yn ymwneud â'r cyfrif yw yn ymddangos y pandemig a'r ddweud o'r ddweud i'r ddweud. Mae'r bod yn cyflodol o'r ddweud o'r ddweud. Mae'n gwleidio'r ddweud yn ymddangos o'r ddweud, a'r ddechrau'n gwleidio, wedi'u gwrth i'r ddweud o'r ddweud. ac bydd y cwrs, yn ôl, dyma'r cyfnod gyda George Floyd, ac bydd yn ffocusing gyda'r ffobl o�on o feddwl am y Micar Rath i Llywodraeth. Ac mae'n oed yn y UC, a mae'n oed yn eu Llywodraeth. Ac yna y cwrs, yma'n dweud i'r UC yn y Llywodraeth yn Llywodraeth, yn Beth Bobh Green in London. A yna gallwn amserfynd â'r ffordd yn Washington o feithio fynd yn Freedom, mae rheidio i gwiswyd o'r guirio! Fy Duck? Now? Eight? Welcome everyone. We're coming to a vinghiff. G injured or was done to diem laam? Where is your story of this phase of transition from a story of separation to an age of reunion? Where are we in that story just now, do you think? I think a lot of people have this sense that some big digit is a foot. dyma'n gwybod i'r gweithio i'r llunonol, ond mae'n drwy'n dweud yma'r gweithio'r gweithio'n rhai. Ond yn y proses ychydig sydd wedi'i'n gweithio'r rhai, byddwn yn cyfle i'r cyhoeddau, a'r cyflwyno'r cyflwyno'n cyhoedd, sydd yn ymarfer y llunio'n ddwy'r hynny. gwaith yw y ffordd yw'r tyfnod yw'r wych, y rhan oedd y byddur, y rhan o'r byd yw'r cyfnod o'r cyfnod, yw'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r tro, o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r ffordd o'r cyfnod o'r byd. Yn ni'n gweithio? A yw'r hynny yn fwyfynion yng nghymru i'r llawer y ffordd, ac yn fwyfynion yng Nghymru, mae'r byddur yn fwyfynion. Mae'n gweithio. ydych chi'n gweithio'n adrodd ni wedi'i rhoi'r cyfwysig. Ydw i'n gweithio'r cyfrifiadau sy'n gweithio'n cyfrifiadau sydd wedi'i gwahanol'n gweithio eich gwneud. Mae'r ddigon ar y ddweud ymgyrch, a'r cyfrifiadau sydd oedd yn cael ei ddweudio, a'r cyfrifiadau neu'r cyfrifiadau, ychydigolau a'r cyfrifiadau, a'r dwi'n gweithio'n gweithio ar y ddedgolol o'r cyfrifiadau syddol. rhaid i'w wneud gyda'r gynllun sy'n gweithio'r cyffredigol i ddechrau. Ond dod yn oed yn dda i'w dweud o gyf Sword because of COVID a because of any external factor. But it's a choice that is presented to us more and more starkly as things fall apart. So part of the part of the story there has many filaments that weave together. Roedd yma, mae'n gweithio y gallu cyfnoddau, felly, oherwydd, gan unig o'r cyfnoddau, yn gweithio gweithio'n bwysig i'r cyfrifol am y worldynau cyflwynau. Dwi'n credu, mae'n gwneuddau yma ychydig o'r ariadau a'r ariadau, dwi'n credu cyflwynau yma yn y world. ac mae erioeddoedd o ranforu anodd, ac mae genedlau am ffordd a cael eu cael tu. Ond mae'n effeithio'r rhanwiyth, oedd mae'n effeithio'r rhanwiyth. Mae'n effeithio'r rhanwiyth, mae'n effeithio'r rhanwiyth. Mae yng Nghaerfydd yw'r blwyddyn, mae'n effeithio'r ffawr,aitan, mae'n b beforehand a bobl, mae'r fiysu'r ffaith gweithing, mae'r gweithio, mae'r llawon mewn cyfrifol onward, mae'n gweithio'r fawr of these natural forces and the competing other beings out there like that's that's been civilizations view of the road to paradise and so so you know you asked about COVID you asked about the political situation I mean here we are we are seeing more and more obviously the failure of control to bring about happiness the so COVID comes like all of these crises it's not like everything was just great and now we have some troubles okay like black lives matter like like police killing of of black people like that didn't just start with George Floyd right that's been going on for a very long time and in fact um is less than it used to be but it's so it's not that something new started it's that it has come into public awareness health we've we like modern societies especially the US but to a large extent Great Britain as well have been becoming less and less healthy over the last 50 years chronic diseases are are at unprecedented levels mental health depression anxiety suicide all of these things are are getting worse with each generation it's not like we were getting healthier and healthier now all of a sudden COVID comes but what so so the way that we respond to these crises it's kind of schizophrenic it goes in two directions one is we double down on control because here comes just to speak of COVID but I could apply this to to political issues as well here comes COVID and now here's something that we can control like when it comes to autoimmunity chronic health conditions depression it's not like you can you can find the bad guy and wipe it out or insulate yourself from it like if you're suffering from depression you can't like lock yourself in your room to keep out all the bad spirits that are making you depressed that'll actually make you more depressed if you if you have an auto immune condition you can't cleanse your body of what you know germs and get better like because it's happening within it's it's your own self that's confused so so these kind of crises that are not amenable to control are very disturbing to the modern mind so there was almost a sense of relief when COVID came because now we know what to do about it here's you know so all of these technologies of control are then deployed so so yeah excuse me I don't see COVID as like it's almost like a return like it's almost short circuited an evolutionary process and brought us back to an earlier orthodoxy in our response to it but it also is in a way it's showing us the the um destitution of the state to which we are we have been headed it shows us with even more clarity what a society based on control and separation looks like um and and yeah I'm I'm wary of going on too long on this one topic but but again like like the Biden inauguration like Washington DC full of you know military and razor wire like that whole scene I mean that's not the vision of America that that we collectively held in 1945 and 1950 and 1960 wasn't supposed to be this way these rancorous divisions the the the hate the paralysis the decay the the civil strife I mean something isn't working here and and this is this is part of the breakdown of the story it's this feeling that something isn't working here we were supposed to be in paradise by the incredibly futuristic year of 2021 like that was science fiction we were supposed to have you know robot servants in space colonies by 1990 you know I mean it was supposed to be a this technological wonderland where every problem had been engineered out of existence and so this engineered out of existence like what does that actually mean it means that you apply control on a more and more minute scale and a more and more vast scale like you bring more and more of the world under control under domestication under the human intelligence and and you arrange everything to be perfect and just right just for us and that program can be maintained only with greater and greater delusion that's no I mean I'm really struck by that and I've been really struck by very much of what you've said along these lines I mean I still keep coming back to this sense of dark times and I don't want to sound too pessimistic but there does seem to be more and more polarization in some ways between you know the the wealthy and the poor between men and women sometimes between black and white you know certainly between the you know the but certainly between the right and the left and yet when I read you and when I've listened to you Charles one of the things that strikes me well two things that strikes me I think is your your confidence and your optimism rather refreshing to have that both that confidence and optimism I wonder can you say where that confidence even optimism comes from perhaps first in yourself as an instinct because I think one of the things that's been striking me about your thought is that I think you've got some very very deep instincts that you're trying to find a way of communicating so I wonder where that optimism and confidence comes from your instinct and where you see it in where you see it in the world around you perhaps yeah so it so yes the confidence and the optimism are not saying everything is going to be fine we're taking care of by a higher power uh the you know angelic beings are going to swoop in and rescue us from you know all of our problems it's not that it is that we have the power to choose a different world we are not helpless before the seemingly implacable forces arrayed against change arrayed against healing that in the mind that attributes change to force that that mind that says well it's obviously impossible look at how powerful the the the banking industry is the pharmaceutical industry the military industrial complex you know the like white supremacy in patriarchy etc etc capitalism like look at how powerful they are they've got all the guns they've got all the money they've got the media they've got everything how can we possibly do anything it's hopeless that view buys into premises that are actually part of the problem that change happens when a superior force overcomes a weaker force my confidence and my optimism is based on experiences and instincts as you say that supersede that worldview that and it's partly like I wouldn't stick this instinct but I wouldn't be here if it were impossible and all of the magnificent people I meet and all of the generosity and the courage and the beauty of human beings and of life it wouldn't it's not here just to go to waste it's not really rational I can't say how our society is going to heal it's just that I know that it's possible that's why I titled that book the more beautiful world our hearts know is possible because the mind might not know it's possible because if you say okay Charles come up with the plan how's it going to actually work any plan that I could propose is going to be full of holes it's it's going to and maybe you've had these moments where you have some reason for hope but then the inner cynic just evisorates that hope and points out all the ways it's not going to work really anything worth doing is kind of naive and that's why I I think in that book I even have a chapter about naive attae like we need a little bit more of it to attempt what the mind says is impossible and to follow that invisible path where you and it's not self delusion there is such a thing as self delusion like you have some fantasy and on and deep down you know that it's impossible but there's also deep down you know it's that it is possible and you don't know how to get there but but if there is and this is what it comes down to an intelligence beyond our own in the world not necessarily imposed upon the world by an external divinity but an intelligence in all things then we no longer have to be in control of everything in order for positive change to happen we can become participants instead of engineers we can ally our gifts with the process of healing and listen for what is ours to do and thereby become part of something that the mind cannot conceive of something that we can't plan that's where my optimism lies