 Welcome to Web Chat Wednesday. I'm Chris and I'm here with Artie. We are Studio Guides at the Billy Jean King Main Library in downtown Long Beach and today's guest is David Headen. David Headen is a designer based in Long Beach who has been involved with a variety of projects within the community including urban agriculture, aquaponics, sustainable design, art installations and maker spaces. He currently works as a lecturer at Cal State Long Beach in the design department. Thank you for joining us today David. Glad to be here. Yeah thanks for joining us David. Is there anything you'd like to add about about yourself you know for the intro? Anything we left out? Snowboard in the winter that's a good one but sustainability backpacker in the summer and yeah it's about all. We'll just jump right into it. So where are your favorite places in Long Beach? Favorite places in Long Beach? Lately the dog beach has been a highlight, taking the dogs down there and you know finding a place to you know get outdoors you know with some social distance. Let's see what else like El Dorado park you know any places to kind of get outdoors and kind of get away from the city feel kind of get away from the traffic sounds and I mean I would say all the the gardens that I visit those are all all the highlights of Long Beach. Every garden is like a little you know oasis away from the hustle and bustle. So one of the projects you worked on was Bird Up. What inspired the project and can you explain a little bit more about that project? Sure Bird Up is like an artist awareness collaboration for creating awareness about sustainability purposes and using the arts to get people excited about it. So the idea was it was really trying to cater to a specific grant proposal which was the ALOT series the arts council was putting on an event to engage the public. So that was a big criteria was how to engage with the public but I really wanted to focus on bringing sustainable awareness and from just my background in sustainability it can be kind of tiresome to be you know preached about like sustainability so I would try to find a more playful way to get people to get excited about doing things more sustainably. So that's where having done stuff with a bunch of artists and you know instead of you know just being me kind of being the show I wanted to enable more artists to get involved. So the idea is you know I built hundreds of birdhouses and then used them as blank canvases to share with the artist community and then they put their spin on it and whatever design art to you know really they can say whatever they want but just collectively it gets people to be thinking more deeply about you know what the art is on a bird house and then what does the bird house mean where does the bird house go what are things that you know help encourage a bird to want to go into bird house you know so it I feel like it's a playful way to get people to think a little bit more deeply about you know things that they might just be see as everyday objects and I guess another just parallel idea is just creating a dialogue of how nature can exist within the city so a lot of people think of you know nature as being something separate but really like we're we have micro environments and you know you know ecosystems and very small scales in the city so you know how do we you know see that perspective also. What's your favorite bird? Favorite bird huh? It's the the puffin from like Alaska and up in Arctic because it's kind of like people look at it it looks like a clown so it's got that kind of funny appearance you know and kind of makes it unique but at the same time it's like a water bird so I love the water it goes fishing it catches fish it you know it's it's kind of like on the the edge of really rough you know coastlines things like that so it's like it's kind of I've I've only seen them a couple times and it's always been like a highlight when I do see them because it just seems like anyways that that's one bird I would say I don't know I'm a big bird fanatic so I could probably list off a bunch but I'll leave it at the puffin. One of my favorite projects of yours is the box of boom can you tell us about this project and what inspired it? Yeah so there's a couple things another this is another one where it was kind of taking a bunch of ideas that have been kind of percolating in my mind or other collaborators minds and then having a grant opportunity or an event opportunity to apply to so in this case it was Music Taste Good Music Festival in Long Beach was looking for having an artist's call for their following summer festival around the same time a fellow studio guide Gabriel Guete Gabbotron he we were together we went up and visited Maker Faire in San Francisco it's kind of like the culmination of yearly maker events around the world and while we were there we were inspired by another maker group called Pony Trap who makes a robot drummer for their band so kind of percolating on that idea of how we could make our own kind of noise interactive machine and apply it to the Music Taste Good Festival and make it interactive how do people because the Pony Trap it's great for their band they have their own drummer but it's not interactive and it's not like people can just walk up and play it so anyways you know thinking of like video games and arcade games and how people can just walk up and kind of smash the buttons and then like maybe combining that with a big robotic drum machine where people could walk up and almost play the arcade or play a drum machine like an arcade game so Gabe and I were talking about that on the drive back from Maker Faire and I have I also have a background playing drums in some bands in Long Beach so I just happened to have a couple drum sets that weren't being used so the idea was let's make a larger than life boom box that looks you know like a six foot seven foot tall boom box filled with analog drum sets just you know all throughout and robotically controlled so that people can walk up and you know kind of like Street Fighter you know battle each other with the arcade buttons and so it's actually been a good hit and we've taken it a lot of different places since then and it's really big and heavy and takes lots of people to move and a U-Haul truck but we you know since then it's been evolving it has like a really complex brain system that we've been refining and gonna cut new ones and we're gonna make a small version that's like a lunchbox size or we have prototypes of a lunchbox version or like a backpack version so it's really you know people get excited by it and so for that reason it's been really fun by the engagement that people have had with it but it's also been like a combination of you know it's fully collaborative there's no way that I could have done it myself it's only because you know I got stuck somewhere and someone else came in and helped solve that problem that had been another person come in with a suggestion and so it's just evolved in complexity but also collaboration so I would say yeah Bird Up and Box of Boom are like you know kind of those hallmark projects of mine where I'm excited because of the the collaboration element that's a big aspect that I feel needs to be part of it. Were there any like massive roadblocks any like something that kind of prevented you from moving forward? You know definitely like some tight moments like where everything worked up until like midnight the night before the big festival premiere and then like a circuit burns and smoke goes out of the circuit board and then we're like you know kind of retracing everything all the way back and it's like stuff like that you just you know can't anticipate but every time we've you know you know it's all come right back together right at the perfect moment so those things have been great I mean we definitely um let's see like had some like parts where we got stuck and you know it just it really did take someone else to come in and kind of look at it from a different perspective so things like you know being a drummer there's like certain complexities you know it's like different volumes that you're trying to convey and so you know a robot can be pretty you know not not very precise and so trying to add complexity or precision you know that started getting making it more challenging and having to up our abilities in terms of programming or what the motors and electronics can do and so yeah there's been a lot of head scratching at certain times and that's kind of the fun of it too is like we're kind of doing a puzzle together that we know what it's supposed to look like but we don't know how the pieces fit together yet but you know it's all all the technology's out there it's just kind of making it work for what you want it to do awesome yeah I think it's a great project I think sometimes people are scared to pick up an instrument or you know it's just they don't think it's their thing but I think like the box of boom enables people who don't even play instruments or the drums specifically to just go up and play press the buttons like a video game and get instant like satisfaction so do you have any plans to make any more designs that incorporate music um well I don't want to I don't want to like officially announce it yet but I would guess we have in the works uh if you think yen versus yang you know like your shirt you know bright contrast what would be the contrast opposite of box of boom so that's kind of where I'm leading to is you know maybe a more meditative approach to sounds and tones that would be more contemplative kind of if box of boom is expressing outwardly where would you go to experience sound and tone to be more like maybe a mindfulness space so I'll leave it kind of like a little bit vague but we were playing with ideas like that too so anyways oh yeah I love I love that concept and I could see like the through line through like bird up and box of boom and the project you're mentioning right now where it's like you're creating these like experiences besides the design there's like experience that's attached to it and that's that's I really like that idea um since we're talking about music uh what was the last song you listen to uh let's see well um I mean I kind of listened to this one song like half a dozen times yesterday because we were doing a kind of a fun little music video at the garden it's called grow food so if you haven't heard that song it's like pretty catchy little rap rap song that these kids came out with to promote like growing food and so we we did a remix you know music video at our garden yesterday center with a bunch of local kids who who like to like you know break dance and stuff so we had like a little floor mat out and they were able to you know jump in and do a little dance movement we're gonna kind of cut that up and uh put it out there just kind you know trying to just like bird up and some of these things you know trying to make it more fun and playful to do things like sustainability or eating healthy um being active you know it's like you know we do we do music because we enjoy it but there's yeah like you were saying sometimes it's it's a little threshold to getting to the point where you're actually doing it and so you know people need to be encouraged to to keep going and kind of see it through until they actually have fun doing it so like whether it's design music art you know like yeah it's actually kind of tough up until you kind of get the flow and then it's just like yeah it's fun fun to do it so long story of my song I could probably name a few others but grow food awesome yeah we'll check it out you were also one of the main one of the one of the first studio guides for the studio at the Long Beach Public Library you know which is a maker space in the Long Beach Public Library system what were the early days of the studio like um well what I would say is in the early days like a lot of what we were doing was just creating awareness of what making is or the idea of a maker and how it relates to people outside of art and design so trying to relate it to well just all different departments of the library trying to relate it to all different departments of the city trying to relate it to you know people just you know having something that doesn't work at home and being able to fix it or make it or maybe seeing a problem or something that could be improved if you're going to know how to make it better so it's like it's kind of like in the design department or design field the idea of design thinking it's it's kind of applying that to a space and then having a space that allows for design thinking to happen and so you don't have to be a designer to apply design thinking you just need to kind of know the approaches or it's a lot like just informal troubleshooting I would say and having good tools and resources available so in the beginning there was a lot of you know even collaborating with different departments or you know helping the departments because by working with them we were doing projects that would showcase how we could actually utilize the space so I think that helped with showing other people examples of what could be done there. Why do you think maker spaces are important? Yeah so I've been advocating for maker spaces in Long Beach for a while and the big reason is the shared resources similar to like a library we're sharing the resources of having my information and knowledge within books and other information resources but not everyone has a set of tools not everyone has the you know 3d printer not everyone has all these resources that hey maybe you only need to use it for one little thing but it costs a lot to buy something from brand new to then do that one little thing or sometimes you know even if you knew what to do you don't know how to do it and sometimes you need guidance so there's a lot of like I would say things that are left to the professionals that don't need to be so you know difficult to access and so simple things like home improvements fixing a broken whatever or you know customizing a little anyways all the things you would approach in a maker space are things that I see people needing but not having access to and so I see libraries are a source of that so it makes sense for maker spaces to be there and then just as seeing all maker spaces that are out there they do come in all shapes and sizes but I think that's kind of the bottom driving force is creating access for more people from teaching at Cal State Long Beach we had and because of you know social issues going on right now we had what was called the scholar strike earlier in the semester and a student had asked me to you know address it during the class and it's basically raising awareness of BIPOC and you know social issues and so I didn't you know have anything on hand at the moment so in in order to relate 3d printing and like my class which was 3d design 3d printing and BIPOC issues but I did a little bit of research and look also looking at BIPOC within the maker spaces it's awesome really interesting like stats in terms of you know how anyways how non-inclusive maker spaces can be and there's one demographic that really stood out to me because anyways for my background in sustainability I take a lot of insight from like the Native American population some of their practices and craft work however they have the smallest percentage of access or utilization of maker spaces so I just thought that was a really big contrast of you know this population of traditional craft making that is you know exquisite also is very conscious in terms of sustainability and what happens to this afterwards and what are resources and being used and how it's being utilized so all this thought and mindfulness that goes into crafting but the people whose you know histories and traditions bring it that pass it along they're not in the maker spaces so from my projects of being collaborative in nature I can only see benefit from having more collaboration and from a more diverse collaborative source and specifically I mean I think it'd be awesome to have more maker spaces in Native American you know communities so I don't know they don't have a driving message other than you know maker spaces are communal spaces and it should be fully inclusive and we gotta you know expand that. Where have you traveled and how has traveled inspired your design? I would say I did two study abroad uh semesters two different different years during the summer when I was studying design so I got to study design in London for about six weeks and then a couple years later I studied in Florence Italy and so I was kind of the first touch off to international travel but that really opened my eyes to you know just different cultures food experience art you know just really seeing things from a you know worldly perspective and then kind of my next big adventure was going down to Brazil because I really had like a you know drive to see the jungle like in the Amazon before it was gone and to just go I just headed straight for the jungle first thing didn't really know even where I was going just knew I was gonna get in the jungle and then found my way out and survived and then went to the city um anyway that was like a huge impression in terms of like nature and culture uh from the South South American perspective and then the the real turning point which uh in a local group Green Long Beach we would call an eco epiphany um so my my eco epiphany was when I went to China in 2008 as part of a cross cultural design exchange um I was working at a design consultancy at the time and you know prior to that I had always advocated for sustainable uh methods in our products that we're designing but you know there'd always be you know um cost benefit analysis and hey you know the sustainable option is just gonna cost too much we can't do it so it kind of gets frustrated after a while to advocate for sustainability and not you know succeed and then the the turning point was going to China and just seeing factories and coal and smoke and pollution seeing it firsthand and seeing you know the planned obsolescence where does this waste actually go and you're seeing piles of wires getting melted down to get to the copper inside you know it's like if it's out of sight out of mind we don't really think about where our electronics or our products are going um but once you see it in front of you and you think oh could I be contributing to this or or could I help improve this so I basically stopped going to work at the at the consultancy upon returning from uh China and just started really focusing on we know what is a sustainable product you know if I'm a product designer how do I design the most sustainable product and what I came to the conclusion was the most sustainable product is no product like without product so or at least something that is like fully integrated in terms of a lifecycle analysis but when I started thinking about it further the least sustainable or one of the least sustainable industries was the food industry and food is kind of like a product where you develop a food you grow it and it's now a tangible item that can be bought and sold and shared so I kind of changed my direction and tried to repivot you know using design thinking uh processes and principles and applying it to food systems and so reducing food waste or increasing efficiency in production and uh so I was just kind of making like a sharp turn in my focus but at the same time um you know I didn't want to just like throw out theories so I had to practice it so I had to start like you know I had a small balcony start growing in containers and see what technology can assist in that and you know other industries started evolving with you know sophisticated plant technology so start studying those methods hydroponics aquaponics and just you know rooftop farming has always been always advances and methodologies that have helped agriculture progress but how do we do it sustainably so I had to get my hands dirty and really like just take it on to show that like I had firsthand knowledge in growing things before I could actually say you know an idea and feel confident that it was not just some greenwashing or some you know kind of pie in the sky idea when I first started doing aquaponics it was trying to teach people um that you know it's a soilless growing system that uses fish waste to feed plants the big thing that people had reservations was they said oh we're eating plants that you know are growing on fish poop and so it's like they're you know offhand that might sound a little weird or gross to some people but then if you think of any other plant that's growing usually has cow manure, chicken manure, horse manure, some sort of fertilizer in there it's just all of a sudden when you say fish fertilizer it sounds a little bit different or at the time you know before aquaponics became a little bit more more knowing so it's kind of just like bringing people along and making sure that they're uh knowledgeable about what's in front of them first of all and not just making kind of initial reactions definitely what sparked your initial interest in gardening and aquaponics um I would say I've always enjoyed the garden and just gardening and kind of being around plants in nature um kind of growing up in the bay area northern california you know having a lot of like outdoor time and then coming down southern california and you know having to find my own space sometimes and kind of provide my own plants and stuff so that and also just um um I think that the big one was just you know trying to grow my own food was really the the turning point um trying to figure out you know is it really feasible to sustain yourself in the city with what you grow is that even possible um so definitely found that you can do a lot growing your own but you know in the city is you know it's not it's not being on the farm it's a whole different environment so definitely takes collaboration once again what was the last thing that you grew yourself into eight um well we're wrapping up tomato season so we've been doing like loads of tomatoes the last thing grew in eight um probably a cucumber I mean it's the end of summer so we got cucumbers coming in uh tomatoes peppers so probably one of those awesome can you tell us some of the work tell us about some of the work you've done with community gardens here in long beach yeah so I would say the first kind of getting involved was the growing experience in north long beach it's a urban farm about seven and a half acres on low-income housing um county of LA property and so I I got brought in with them on like a it was like an internship or as a incubator program so we got some basic training from some of the staff and some volunteer or some um you know other people coming in and we were to propose a project uh I think at the end of the incubator training and so we pitched to do an aquaponics system for the farm and so that's really where my aquaponics uh kind of trajectory took off and uh we started with a just a small it's an IBC so it's a IBC tote is a just an international container and often used in aquaponics so we did that we did got that running for one year it was really successful and we were able to apply it to a $50,000 grant to then retrofit entire thousands square square foot greenhouse and turn it into a vertical aquaponics system that they're still using so that was the kind of the that was like one of my first involvements with urban farming here in long beach there's also like one of the bigger projects I would say in terms of um just uh you know the there's no other farm at that scale here in long beach so to have you know a full greenhouse and full land and you know all those things available that was pretty pretty awesome but since then um kind of trying to tie it into aquaponics but having to go a little more um less less sophisticated just doing raised beds we did the garden at the the learning garden at the michelle obama library and so that those are the two highlight projects I would mention um that were kind of like start to finish um but there's been a lot of like yearly projects every year we do a collaboration with leadership long beach on MLK day and so that's like a day of service um and we'll do some sort of community garden project where we get like 30 plus people and really do something of uh you know a good collaborative effort there so um yeah and then just kind of working with uh well like even the the time exchange I would help out people that just needed like random assistance and various things that just need some knowledgeable you know plant plant nerd to help out with yeah awesome uh do you have like a main goal behind your work with urban agriculture yeah the main goal is um sustainability is like kind of the the big overlining goal but it's such a abstract goal probably it so the more tangible goal is just making your own food growing your own food and being more connected to plants um would be the kind of the personal or the individual level goal awesome we're at the tail end of the interview just got a couple more questions for you thank you though so how do you think we can inspire the next generation of designers and people in general to embrace sustainability um I would I would say making it a challenge you know uh putting all the the cards on a table so that you know we're not trying to you know hide anything you know full transparency like here's what we're up against here's your challenge you know you have all the tools and the skills we believe in you to do it but we don't have the answers so it's up to you like everyone it's not like one person has the answer so it's really you know kind of creating these collective spaces where ideas can be shared and not just shot down and so it takes you know a challenge sometime or a challenging idea to present itself so just for the young designers and creative people to kind of you know ask those hard questions and try to at least present solutions as opposed to just you know um you know uh criticisms definitely thank you yeah yeah Dave you touch you touch upon a lot of topics and a lot of projects that you've been involved with um thanks for sharing really appreciate it um but we'll just keep it simple with one of the last you know one of the last questions is uh can you tell us a memorable library experience uh let's see memorable library experience um well so many what would be the best one most uh camera friendly no um okay i'm sorry i can't help but laugh uh yeah let's see good experience most memorable um okay how about how about we how about we do something a little different we just go um so is there is there a place uh this this so this is a moment for you to shout out yourself is there a place where people can find out what projects you've worked on you know who you are you know and if they want to reach out after seeing this and you know they have a project they want to you know collaborate on is there a place that you know people can find you online so uh yeah i mean i have you know your your usual social media and stuff uh personal website you could probably look me up and and find some not necessarily the most active in self promotion but i would say uh my latest collaborative space is called spacetime collaborative so spacetime collaborative dot com um that's also just getting kind of started but it's more uh kind of personal passion projects um within the collaborative context and exploring just you know any and all ideas and bird up uh box of boom aquaponics drones virtual reality it's all it's all contained within spacetime collaborative so that's where you know i'm directing people at this point so how about that uh memorable library experience i mean talking about the garden so much i'm just thinking about um the grand opening of the michelle obama library was also the grand opening of the learning garden at the michelle obama library and we had you know five thousand people you know all over that entire garden just like in the beds on the beds everywhere and you know from from day one the community was like already like hey don't step there there's plants and then like that's our food you know don't step there in there so the community from day one was already uh you know taking ownership and protecting it and you know since then it's been every day i go out there there's always someone doing something some sort of interaction with a someone's harvesting at any time of the day um and just like all of the there's been so many good uh experience of interactions at that space um and it's it's it's it's really you know a great opportunity that it happens to be right next to a library and all the crossover benefit so it just you know seeing how inundated with people it was on day one that was like a memory but it kind of lasts because i see throughout all the years since that it's still had you know that lingering uh residual effect so it's that it's kind of like a highlight for me awesome thank you so much that concludes our interview with david headen thank you for being a wonderful guest and having these really insightful responses to all of our questions thanks for having me good to be here