 Red light therapy, you might have heard about it. Sounds like magic. Is it snake oil? No, it's actually effective at quite a few things. In fact, a study just came out showing that red light therapy used on the back of the neck reduced blood sugar levels by, get this, 28%. The practitioners did nothing else. They just used red light therapy and it literally turbocharged their mitochondria to suck blood sugar out of their blood to be used as fuel. Pretty remarkable stuff. You can just add that to the amazing list of things that red light therapy does. Do you think in the future we're gonna have like sugar vampires? Beds that are designed or like rooms that like houses are started. Like it makes sense to me with all the positive effects of red light therapy. I haven't read anything with any sort of adverse effects from it. Why would you not start to make like bathrooms or like some rooms in your, or the bed or like above the bed, like it just has- You have to wait till the cost goes substantially down. You know, like so people are like, wow, there's so much value to it that like there's more market demand or- I mean, come on. We do things in houses now that heat the tile floors that cost thousands of dollars. Like it can't be that crazy to run red light in the ceiling or something like that. It's just because you have to do it for like 10, 15 minutes. So maybe- Yeah, but that's why a bathroom makes sense. How long do you spend in the shower brushing your teeth and everything? Like, yeah. I mean, that's perfect to me. That's where I put the juve. That's where I would do it too. I would literally run it in my bathroom lights and like imagine coming in and you switch and it's all red light and you're shower and brushing it like every morning you're getting it like that. I remember when we first met with Juve, they were one of, they have- Remember how skeptical you were at the very end? Super skeptical. I mean I was too. Like regrows hair, makes your skin, you know, reduce wrinkle wizardry, speeds up recovery, helps you raise testosterone. Like, you know, it's like the list of things that's like, oh, it does everything. Yeah, no thanks, right? And then they sent me all these studies, some of them going back to the 70s. I was like, what? This is wild. And some of the studies were done by NASA, in fact. Yeah. And the studies just keep coming out. This is the latest one. Reduces blood sugar. Yeah. This is crazy. That's amazing. Yeah, for people who have like insulin resistance or issues with that. Now, exercise is the best possible thing you could do, obviously, building muscle. But how many, you know, imagine the average person, they don't want to work out and want to get up. It would be pretty easy to be like, hey, look, when you sit down in the morning for your coffee, just put this on the back of your neck. This will make a big difference. Why the back of the neck? That's just what they did in the study. It could be anywhere. I think it doesn't matter. I really don't. Oh, yeah, I thought that was weird. Because what it does, so for people who don't know, this, there's a particular wavelength of light that literally turns on the mitochondria. It literally, it's like, so your mitochondria, think of them, I know people say this, this is super general. It's obviously more complex than this. So think of the mitochondria as like energy producing engines of every cell. So it's basically like telling the mitochondria, create more energy, you know, burn more energy, uptake more glucose, utilize more energy. So it turbocharges them. So what does that mean? That means that all the cells that are powered by mitochondria now become kind of turbocharged, right? So skin cells regenerate faster. Muscle cells recover faster. Hair regrows. And because mitochondria use, you know, glucose and ATP and all this stuff, it's gonna uptake more of it by using it. In the past, you used to have to go to expensive, like you have to go to dermatologist's office or like really high-end skincare places to get it. And it just wasn't feasible because it was expensive. You have to use it on a semi-regular basis, you know, four days a week or so. And if you wanted to get an actual home unit, that was legit, like the ones that they were using. So many snake oil salesmen out there that are selling you just like painted red bolts. Yeah, well, it has to be the right wavelength. But, and Juve does this, but before you would cost you like $10,000 to get like a legit panel, like the ones they use in studies. Now, of course, Juve, much less expensive. But if you go on Amazon, you'll see all these red light devices. And I know this, because I'll tell my family members about this, cousins and stuff. And they'll be like, boy, I bought this for 80 bucks. Yeah, dude, it was like half price. And I got this hat with like red lights in it. I'm like, oh, look at the wavelength, bro. It's the wrong one. It's not doing anything for you. So, okay, does it have a systemic effect? Yep. So then, is it, why is it, well, it's not necessary then obviously. Why would I get the huge panel and stand in front of it naked versus- You're gonna affect more mitochondria. Okay. More, there's a local effect and a systemic effect that happened. So most of it would happen locally when it comes to, depending on the wavelength, some red light. So Ju has panels that'll penetrate deeper and some that are more on the surface. So the surface one's more for skin, the deeper one's more for muscle. Yeah, like alternates between the two. That's right. I know they have the little ones, they have an option, one or the other. And then the big panel has a combination of both. Yes. I know that. So if you want like muscle recovery, you get the deeper one. If you want skincare, then you get the one that's a little more surface. Nonetheless, they all stimulate the mitochondria. I still like the idea of, if we're getting rid of the need for cars in your garage and everything that we were talking about like a while back, like we turned that into like gym slash recovery space, you know, and then like have those all over the walls and over the ceilings and, you know, just be in there and turn it on. It's, it is one of those things. Like if it's that effective and valuable, like it should start like making its way into actually like in the structure of the house. Yeah, I feel like if you were, if you were building like, let's say a new home right now, the same way you have an option, a lot of times to put solar in fact, California, you have to now. But I mean, you, if you had that option, you know, oh, for 20,000 more, I can do this. Oh, for 20,000 more, I can have my garage completely outfitted in red light or my bathroom completely outfitted in red light. It's interesting that they haven't moved in that dream. Is it, you think it's just lack of awareness still? I think it's just cause it's, now you can buy the panels and hang them up yourself maybe, but I don't know. I bet you some people already have done what you're saying. I wouldn't, I wouldn't imagine like high end home. Some people are like custom. That would be cool. Yeah. Look that up, Andrew. See if you can find, see if you can find some like custom, custom red light, you know, home. Red light therapy rooms or something like that. Yeah, I would do that. This is the longest. This is the longest I've consistently used the Juve. So I've used it now, I don't know, maybe three, four days a week for months now. And my skin is, it makes a huge difference on my face. It's so weird. It's, in fact, we saw, who do we run it? We ran to Jordan and shallow yesterday, right? And he walks up to me, what the hell man, you look like you're getting younger and I'm getting older. Nobody ever tells me that. Nobody ever tells me that. So I was like, all right, you know, that's good for, that's good for, you know, one point for, for red light therapy. No, this is the most consistent I've seen you with it. I think I probably used it the most. You did. Yeah. And I've actually been inconsistent with it lately, which I need to get back into that. It's just one of those things. This is my panel. That's why this is normally at my house. I brought it into the boys when they were doing that competition and I haven't taken it back. Well, think about it like, name one non-exercise thing and non-pharmaceutical that will immediately, like in that short period of time, to use it, I don't know how long they did in the study, I think it's like 10, 15 minutes, that will lower your blood glucose by over 25%. Name something. Okay, now let's, let's, we are, there's not a supplement. There's nothing that'll do that. Let's role play a scenario though, okay. Now you're talking to your average client that we used to get, first time you're kind of meeting them or whatever it that and they're sitting in front of you and they've got chronic pain, they are 40, 50 pounds overweight, terrible diet, they don't exercise yet, and they're buying training from you. Where in that situation, and they ask you about, I know you're not recommending, I'm not, you're going like, oh, go get a red light therapy. Like, I know you would never say that. Well, let's say someone says like, hey, and I read a lot about the red light therapy and I heard a lot of benefits from it. You know, my husband and I were thinking about buying it. What do you think? And I'm buying training from you. Yeah, so what do you say to them in that situation? I'm gonna say you're gonna notice a lot of benefits on your skin and I didn't, so this study didn't exist before. So now I would say it will lower your blood sugar. It'll help with your blood sugar, help with insulin sensitivity. If you're thinking about getting it, I think it's a good idea. Three days a week. While you're doing something, right, reading, having your coffee, whatever, just shine it on yourself. And that's, like I said, it's a significant, that's crazy. You can't buy a supplement, you can't, there's nothing that'll do that besides exercise and pharmaceuticals. So I feel like I would probably say it a little different. Like I would say to my client that asks that, like, if you have the expendable income, absolutely. Because it has lots of benefits to it. Of course, yeah, of course. But if you're telling me I have, you know, a thousand something dollars to invest in myself for my health and stuff like that, and that's all you have. Spend on personal training. That's right. Training or putting together like meal prepping, good food, good health, yeah. So I'm gonna tell them if I'm gonna, but I mean, that's kind of how I feel with a lot of supplements even too. It's like, if you have the money, all those things are beneficial and only going to help the process, but you're always gonna, I'm always gonna tackle the big rocks with my people first before I'm like, hey, let's slap this on. Because if you default to that, as you think that's what's gonna get you healthy and in shape, like. So here's a study I would like to see. We've speculated on this. I would like to see, yeah, that's a, I think those are the Juve panels. They're put on the wall. Yeah, yeah, that's a big one. Here's what I would like to see. I would like to see a study where people use the red light. They take creatine and then they use the red light to see if it increases the uptake and usage in the utilization. Because creatine obviously turns the ATP. I did that. I did that for quite a while. So did I, but I mean, I don't know if I can, I wanna look at a study. I wanna see what the numbers show. I think it would be really fucking cool. You know, because it's like, first off, creatine. Just to better assimilate it or? Yeah, if it's turning on the mitochondria, they're gonna burn more ATP too. Give them that creatine, you know? Make it, I think there would be a. Supercharge it. I think there'll be a cumulative effect. I think there'll be a. That would be interesting. Yeah, kind of like a, you know, one plus one equals three type of thing where they work better together than they do synergistic, right? I'd like to see that, because creatine by itself is turning out to be probably the best longevity supplement period and a story that you take. Add something like this to it. I would speculate. We would see some pretty cool. Add a little Motsy in there. Well, the peptide, yeah. Today's program giveaway is this super bundle. That's a lot of programs and we're giving them away. Here's how you can win. Leave a comment below this video on the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to this channel and then turn on your notifications. If you win, we'll notify you in the comments section. We're also running a sale on some programs this month. Maps, Bands is half off and the Hard Gainer bundle, that's half off. You can get either one or both if you click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, back to the show. Are you guys getting excited at all about London? I mean, it's around the corner for us now. I haven't put a lot of thought into it yet, but yeah, I mean, it's gonna be cool, dude. I think, and you've never been there before, right? No, I've never been there at all. I mean, anytime an opportunity to... So we talk about it or what's going on here? Yeah, we can talk. Why can't we talk about it, right? I don't know the secret. Can we not talk about it? I have no idea. Yeah, we can talk. That means Doug doesn't want you to talk about it. No, I don't know. No, we can talk about it. Oh, we can. Well, I mean, what made me think about it is I realized that we were gonna miss out on the NCI event because the NCI event is the same time that we'll be out in London. So, which is gonna, I mean, he's got the lineup Jason has of speakers again. I feel like every time he does one of these events, he just keeps leveling up the speakers that he has on it. You know what they do really well? You know, I kind of, I'm always thinking of like the right words to describe things, because it's so effective, right? Just how you explain things and the words you use make such a big difference in how people understand it. What NCI does really well is they try to influence the culture around trainers and coaches, more than other certification, more than just teaching you this is good nutrition, this is whatever. They're trying to develop a culture to where the trainers and coaches that come out of their certifications approach things with a mindset. They approach things with a particular philosophy and one that we align very strongly with. That's what they do really well, better than anybody else. Well, no, I think that's realistic like information, relatable things like how to communicate applicable. Yes, like how do I apply this right away and how do I get my clients to, you know, buy into these ideas? That's what really matters anyway. Well, I mean, I think that's what originally connected us so much to Jason was that that was one of the things that we wanted to do with creating this business was we wanted to take all this high level information, all the science, all the studies, all the certifications and degrees and experience that we have accumulated over all these years and how do you take all that and distill that down to the average person or trainer so that they actually makes impact in their life and they make behavioral changes. Not let's put a show together and like teach everybody how smart we all are and let them know that like, oh, we're an authority in this space because we know this much and we've been doing this much. No, it's like, okay, let's take everything. Well, it actually works in application with communication. And in its simplest form too. I mean, and I think that's really, it's interesting how challenging that is for really smart coaches and trainers. Like it's like the smarter they get sometimes the more difficult it is for them to do that. I mean, example, that's our good buddy, shallow. Like that guy is like a walking encyclopedia. One of the most like- I learned something new from every time I hang out. He's one of the few people and we have doctors on here all the time and very brilliant people. Jordan, when Jordan talks, I find myself like hanging on every word because I'm like trying to- Like processing it. Yeah, I'm trying to process it and then like, and then also break it down like, oh, okay, okay, I get what he does. He also has a, and he just has a profound- Vocabulary. Well, no, besides that, a profound understanding of how the human body works. Yes, like- On the deepest level. And then he has a crazy vocabulary and you combine all that and it's like, it is- I think he's, the thing about Jordan is he's really good at teaching coaches and trainers, how to understand these concepts, program design, I think that he's phenomenal at that. I mean, I learned, like you said, when I talked to him for 15 minutes, I never don't learn something. I've always learned something. But I also think, and then so at the same time, I know Doug had him do like an elevator pitch for his certification for us. So we had video of that. And Doug was just like, talk to me like I'm a four-year-old. And he's like, you could just see how hard that is for him to do that. And I do, I think you get that high of a level of education. A lot of people, once they get there, have a really hard time coming back the other direction. This is something that I think Jason and NCI have done really well. I mean, Jason's brilliant in his own right. That's right. He's very, especially when it comes to- He's a great communicator. Yeah, nutrition and helping athletes and the average person, like he's got a very, very high-level understanding of that. But then when you talk to him, I mean, he drops F-bombs, he's like relatable, like he does a really good job of simplifying it. Look, people historically, Carl Sagan. Carl Sagan, I think astrophysicist, right? He turned an entire generation of kids into wanting to learn about space. The cosmos. Into wanting to learn about the cosmos. Carl Sagan, there was lots of astrophysicists, all brilliant. But what he did very well was he communicated in a way that resonated with the average person. Milton Friedman, economist, Nobel Prize-winning. Now, when's the last time an economist was interesting? Never. They're the most boring people in the world. Milton Friedman, he really impacted the world and the average person. I mean, he was on talk shows. This was back in the 70s and 80s. He would speak at colleges because he understood how to communicate so effectively that the average person became interested in economics. That's what got me interested was listening to Milton Friedman. So this is like how you make real impact as a coach or trainer. The knowledge has to be there. You got to know your stuff. But can you convey it? And does it really resonate? Do you think both are necessary for the world or do you think one could do without the other? Or do you think that you don't understand? I think you need the brilliant people. I think both. And then you need, of course, you'd need average people, but you need the brilliant people to come up with the ideas and concepts. Hit the fringe stuff. And then you need the person to take that and go, okay, here's what you can use. I don't want somebody to always be on the cutting edge. Totally. Somebody out there that's always just buried in the research and really high level. And then people in between to distill it now for the rest of us and communicate it. I like to think we're the people in between. That's what I think. I hope so. I really like when Jordan Sallow explained how chiropractic adjustments, why they feel good. And he explained, nobody ever explained it to me well. Nobody ever explained it. They're like, oh, it's aligning this, aligning that. It's not really, that's not really what's happening or I don't know. And he said there are certain like joints and small tight muscles that are holding things together. And now he said it in his words so I'm kind of taking it down, right? That like when a muscle's tight, it's tight because the CNS tells it to be tight. One of the ways you can get a muscle to loosen up is to stretch it, okay? There are gonna be parts in your body, the spine or small joints where you're not gonna be able to do that. It's just tight, it's not happening, it's not moving. And when a good chiropractor knows how to pop the joint, really the pop is not the important part. The part that's important is that they're articulating the joint and causing a small stretch in that muscle and that muscle then finally relaxes. And that's why after you get into chiropractic adjustment you're like, oh, that feels so much better. So they explore sense from a muscular perspective. Totally. So you would categorize even the popping of a carpenter as a stretch. That's what's happening. The pop is just gas being released between the suction of the two joints. That doesn't mean anything, I could pop my knuckles. But what they can do is they can go in and they can get a rib to move just slightly or a vertebrae to move just slightly so the tight muscles around it get that just like if you stretch your bicep out because it's too tight, now it releases. What's funny is the person will associate that, right? Of course. Because they hear the noise and then it sort of triggers that response. It's more like proof that you were able to get the joint to move, but it's not necessary. Good car practice tell you that. The pop doesn't mean. He had other stuff in that conversation yesterday too that I was blowing my mind. I wanna go back and listen to it again because I was like, oh, I need to go back and listen to that again on how he explained the communication from the receiving in versus just communicating from one direction and then doing things differently how that changes the communication process. And I was like, I'm always blown away. There's always something that he drops that I'm like. I know. I've never thought of it that way. And I know that like that's actually the true way. We've all heard it in different ways communicated and I always appreciate listening to him. Dude, I gotta tell you something embarrassing happened this morning at the gym. It's kind of more I felt bad than anything. So I'm training and I have my headphones on in my own world, right? And I'm doing my thing and I'm resting between sets and about, I don't know, three or four benches over this woman is working out doing her thing. And I noticed her or whatever because there's people around me. Anyway, she, I finished my set, put my weights down. I sit kind of facing forward just kind of resting and she racks her dumbbells. I'm catching her through the corner of my eye. She turns to walk back and trips over one of the feet of the bench and kind of stumbles, catches us off, but she's okay. Now I saw that she's too far from me to help. I saw she was okay, but I kind of giggled because the way she did it, right? Bro, she made eye contact with me right when I giggled. Oh God. And then she looked at me. I'm like, oh, I'm so sorry. What an asshole. What an asshole, bro. Oh my God. She almost fell and I laughed. Oh. You know what I mean? I'm like, hey, I'm so sorry. She's like, oh, she like walked away. Oh, you apologized? I did. Oh yeah, of course I apologized. I just laughed at you falling. I know. Well, at least you did that. Well, some people would do that and not do anything. You know what I'm saying? So at least you did that. I mean, shit. That's rough because that's my first response if I even hurt myself to try and laugh it off, but then like, you know, well in the pain. Yeah, but she immediately looked up. She immediately looked like, oh, she should look. That's like when someone tells you like a crazy story, like if something like really bad happened to him and it's kind of funny, but then you think about, then after you laugh, you go like, God, if I was in that situation, that would be terrifying or that would, you know, it's like a natural reaction, right? Someone tells you something like that that's so crazy or so ironic. And then you laugh, but then you have this moment after the fact where you go like, oh, shit. That would be devastating, right? Like if that happened to me, right? So. I hate those moments. And they live with you forever, you know what I mean? Like for the, I know for a long time I only think about that poor lady. Oh yeah, but I feel like you solved it by saying something because trust me, I have embarrassing moments that I just can't. That would torture me if I did that and then I didn't say anything and I just left alone because then I'm like, oh, that lady just thinks I'm an asshole. She took off. Yeah, dude. Yeah. Oh, sorry. How old was she approximately? Probably in her fifties. Okay. So, you know, older than me. It doesn't matter though. It's just poor lady. You know, she almost fell. She looks over the guy. You didn't even help her. I laughed. Like an asshole, you know. I mean, if it was a jacked young dude and he fell, I mean, would you say anything? I'd still feel bad, you know. But you would say sorry. He wouldn't say anything. I still wouldn't say sorry. I don't know. I gave him a round of applause, dude. I feel like for sure, Justin would. No, Justin would. It was like a bodybuilder guy who was just done looking at himself in the mirror and then he turned around and he tripped over the thing. Justin would be like. Yeah. And like intensely make eye contact. Oh, it looks like you need functional fitness. I'm not that much of a digger. Maybe do some stability work, buddy. Yeah. Those muscles don't help. Way to go, balloon animal. I would say something out loud. I would not. I would not. I'm an asshole, but I keep it to myself. I can only imagine because you've worked out with Justin and bodybuilder gyms, right? Yeah. Is he just the whole time like, oh, he's fine. He's just like. It depends the level of it, right? Because actually, I don't mind it. I like the bro vibes, you know. I feel like if he's with me, I feel like I think I'm like the buffer. Then he's okay. Yeah, yeah. Which is probably how I feel like when we're doing all this weird functional shit in a gym. Yeah, but you don't go to sled and shit. Yeah, but you don't go to a functional gym. I don't know, I wouldn't and look around and be like, what a bunch of idiot. I don't think that, right? But bodybuilder gyms invite that, don't they? When you get the dudes doing that sideways chest press and the weird. I don't mind it if they're serious, you know. Like if it's like a goals gym, everybody's like really like, I'm like, oh, this guy goes on stage. It's the half-assed kids that are just like in front of the mirror and they're doing it all for the gram and they're like, you know, into themselves. Okay, so that's how I feel. I feel that too. So it's, to me, and that's kind of like the, you know, we talked to the day about the affliction and the tap out shirts when you're like, you just start. Yeah. But if, hey, if you're a fucking black belt or you're like an MMA champion and you rock, they're like, cool, you know what I'm saying? Like I feel like that's the same thing in bodybuilding. Like if you are at that level, like if I'm looking at your physique and I'm admiring it because it's like on that level, like fucking use the mirror, bro. I'm gonna watch you for a while too. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm impressed. Like, you know, if you take yourself that serious, but if it's like, you know, if you're just that guy that's like, I know exactly what you're doing. And it makes sense, by the way, because one of the most awkward or most difficult things for me was the, you know, presenting my physique on stage. Like I didn't, I did not like that. I was not that guy who stood from the mirror. But I was supposed to practice that, you know? And I just didn't like doing that at all. And so, you know, you get used to that. Okay, I needed to learn how to do this. Like how do I present my shoulders from this angle? And so you're, now I also wanna become this guy who's obsessed staring myself in the mirror. And I know that I feel like, oh my God, who's, but the only thing that I feel that saves me is like, okay, I'm put together right now. You know what I'm saying? Like if I wasn't like that would be, I would feel really weird. Which there's those guys all the time. There's a guy who's like, you know what I'm saying? You know, the most annoying person to me, the only person type of person I've ever really said, because they don't ever say anything, fine, do your thing, whatever, is the dude that sits on the machine or the bench and texts forever. It's not even working out. I've actually gone up to someone and said, hey, would you mind resting over there? Or can you text over there so I can use this? So there's three for me. Oh, what is that one? The other one is the guy that has all of the stuff, like for a circuit. The cross for that. Oh yeah, that's the point. Yeah, that's the most annoying. Do you ever go grab one of the machine? Like what? Oh yeah, I use it. And then especially I go right to the one that's gonna go next. And I'm not even like supposed to. And I'm like, oh, just a minute, bro. You know, if I take like an hour. But yeah, or it's the guy that's got the leg machine that takes all of the weights. It's all walked by and be like, oh, you need some more weights? Yeah. What about the shadow boxer? That's fine. I mean, if you're a real boxer, they're never a real boxer. I mean, Josh does that, right? So he's in here. I know. And you can tell he knows how. I'm talking about the regular dude, like in between sets of curls. He wouldn't do that in front of like the dumbbells or something. I don't know, I ought to ask Josh if he would do that. What do you think, Andrew? You think Josh would do that in front of the dumbbells? A big gym? Oh yeah, it's a yes, bro. He's trying to be nice right now. I was in point. He's like, yeah. But he's a young kid. But Jen, Josh's actually. I know, you guys didn't listen to what I, so one of my thing. And like, you know, my bodybuilder friends are the ones that are guilty of this is the, the leaning over the dumbbell rack to do rows. I fucking hate that. Oh, that's so stupid. Well, you know why? Because they saw some pro bodybuilder do it. Do you know what else you could do? You could put your hand on a bench. That's like. That's what I mean, you could carry it out of the way so you're not taking up all that space. Yeah. It's very good for you to learn how to carry that heavy dumbbell over there and do that. And you can create that same angle, same everything. And you just look silly because it's like you're being lazy because you don't want to take it five feet over to your, your bench and do that. And now you're not in the way of everybody walking. That, that bothers me. My favorite. I'll tell you what my favorite people are, but 100% favorite, favorite people in the gym are the consistent elderly people that, because I go early in the morning and there's like the same 10 people who are probably, I would say late 60s, early 70s. There's a woman that looks like she's in her 80s and they always go in there. They always work out. They always smile. They always do the thing. And I'm always like, oh man, you know, I love that. Absolutely love that. Like I'll get out of the way for you. I'll do whatever you need, do your thing. Like it's so. I would say that's actually the most, the most inspiring thing for me is actually not a jacked bodybuilder guy, you know, with the most amazing physique. It's the 60 year old that looks super healthy and fit still like that. I see that in my dude. That's what I want to be at that age. Still looking put together, still looking healthy, still strong. I will tell you guys, I have a nemesis though at this gym. Did I tell you guys? Another one? It's not the, the son, no, not the old son. I got he won my ass. So I gave up on that. Yeah. No, no, no, I'm talking, there's a dude in there. That's kind of, so it's a, it's a, it's like a, up, it's like a nice country club-ish type gym. Yeah, you're over at the country club, right? Yeah. So it's not like there's no bodybuilders really working out in there. I'm like the most jacked guy and they're by far, right? But now there's another guy, bro. That's the move, I guess. And he looks like, you know, he lifts and stuff. Yeah. You know, we work out around the same time and I could feel the vibe. I wonder if I know, is he like, is he around 50? Uh, he looks like he might, he wears a tank top. He looks like he's my age. Kinda. Yeah, yeah. I don't think he trains his legs. That's what I'm telling myself. Oh, maybe it's not. You know what I mean? This guy was actually, this guy. No, he's not, he's trying to say it's me. It's the mirror. So it's, do you go squat every day that he's there? No, I never lift heavy there. I never lift heavy there. I go here, I come here when I lift heavy, but we just, I could tell we walk by each other. It's almost like, there's not a knot. We never knotted each other. Like, hey, what's up, bro? It's more like a squint. Yeah, it's more like a, I'm the guy. Yeah, I'm the guy. I'm the guy. This is my, this is my friend. On the, what time of year you got to come an hour later. Yeah. That I never, I never felt comfortable lifting heavy at that gym. Yeah, really? Yeah, because it is so kind. It just doesn't feel right, especially upstairs where you're on the upstairs. Yeah, I don't lift heavy there because, uh, You can hear the floor. Well, just heavy lifting for me. Uh, I like to be alone. I like to do my thing. I don't want my ego getting out of control. I don't want it, whatever. There, I train like a bodybuilder there. I agree. I get a pump. You know, it's funny. I used to train in this place called like total fitness and, um, there was a couple total. Yeah. Real, real clever. Um, and, uh, there was this couple there that literally looked just like me and Courtney and we would go in. And this is when I used to train a lot because they had a kids club. And so like, you know, the kids were, were younger. And so we'd put them in there and then we could do our thing. And every time they'd come in, we'd be like, and they were like, we would just, we would face off with them all the time. It was so weird. Bro, that is so, I don't think I've ever met so a couple who I think Katrina and I look like. That's kind of, that's really rare. They looked like exactly like us too. And it was like, we never really like said high or anything. Were they a bizarro version? In other words, you're the more, you're the better looking version. Or were they pretty good? I think they were a little better looking. Oh, you were the bizarro. No! I think that's why I'm so angry. You're just not connected for them. Oh my God, I was, I was the bizarro guy the whole time. But I was stronger than that pussy. Yeah. Anyways, I, when that couple comes in, there's the ugly version of the bizarro. Yeah, yeah. We're talking about you guys at dinner, bro. Like, I never slam weights or nothing. But I just, I caught myself, dude. I just be like, you know, that was done. Every time they were there, I'd be like, that's the best, dude. That's the best. No, that's brutal. No, where I go, it's, it's perfect. Because my ego's not, except for the freaking my nemesis. But other than that, nobody cares. I do my thing. Except if I leave a little past, sometimes I got to get out of there real quick and I don't have time to do the steam room. And it's right around eight, like 10, eight, 10, like 15, these, these, these like, 50 year old, this is the average age of these women, line up for this. I don't know what class it's about to happen, but they all line up outside the class. They all get ready to go to the gym. This is that kind of 50 year old woman. You ever been, you know, in the gym, there's a 50 year old woman that comes to work out. She don't give a fuck. There's a one that shows up and they're like, I'm going to dress nice. I'm going to put on some makeup. So it's literally. There's a lot of them, right? And I have to walk by them at the end of my workout, which typically I'm, you know, you know, you're the talk of the steam room. And then here comes Gladys. Slow mo. There's actually a couple of women in there. I swear to God, they wear like fitness heels. They look like almost sneakers for heels, bro. What are you wearing? That's actually a great business opportunity. The fitness, the fitness heels. Yeah. Dude, you're talking about. Funny. So, okay. I'm going to go to the gym. I'm going to go to the gym. I'm going to go to the gym. I've talked about this before. You guys know this, right? I'm paying for, I don't know how many gym memberships right now. I think I have like four or five. And so this has been years. You just like to donate to gym. By the way, I tell you I justify. Seriously. I literally go like. You're like my part to support fitness. It is, right? That's how I totally justify it in my head. Really, it's not being lazy because I don't want to go in and have to cancel because cancelling gyms sometimes is a headache, dude. I have to go to my parents. Bro, you have to go to facts. A lot of times you go in person. They want to know why. Because I want to cancel. But gyms are funny like that, right? And I remember that, right? I remember when we used to do it. We'd be like, oh, you got to talk to the GM and then GM. Oh, you guys did that shit. You make it difficult for everybody. So, so bad. So I am part of this karma, right? I think I've talked about this too. Every, I don't know, six months or a year I try and recalibrate my expenses and where am I blowing money and should I be more fiscally responsible? And of course the gym thing always comes up like I really should go over there and cancel that. A couple hundred bucks a month and I'm just literally lighting on fire. You know what I'm saying? So literally I go, I'm going to do this one day. I'm on my way back from here. I'm heading home. I had some time and I went to all the gyms, right? And canceled these memberships. Now here's the fucking ironic part about this. Literally two days later I'm trying to get on my Netflix and my Spotify and my ATM card that's attached to all of my accounts just expired. So you didn't have to. You did it for no reason. I would have been here like four years or whatever it is to actually go and finally cancel these things. Two days later now I'm back trying to set up my Netflix, my Spotify and I'm like, oh my God, I could have just not showed up to there and the gym would have just automatically rolled off. You just brought something up interesting. Do you know that the gym industry do you know how it was a three-day cancel policy? Remember we used to sell membership it was always three-day cancellation. Do you guys realize why? There was a lawsuit over that. California law. The gym industry when it first became a business was so shady. It would sell people memberships knowing they're going to go out of business in like a month or two. People paying monthly they would offer them like this was a classic thing that they do. I know you're paying 30 bucks a month this is in the 1980s to say it's a hey for 200 bucks you'll have a lifetime membership never have to pay again and they would get all kinds of people giving 200 bucks then they'd show up next month chains on the door. This is why you can't sell lifetime memberships anymore there has to be a renewal fee. There also was this other lawsuit that happened so I don't want to like shame a gym that's not true. I think it was in shape city in the valley I think it was that. They had a great reputation. What they were doing was they had like in your contract if you cancel there was like massive fees and so you would go to cancel like say after six months it was literally more than what the gym membership would cost you for like the year so then people would be like what so they were doing that to so many people and the way they get away with it and then X amount of time you have all these crazy fees and so they hustled so many people to just keep the contract keep it going because the cancellation would cost more than paying the year. One of the largest gym this is actually brilliant but also slamming one of the largest gym chains from the east coast back used to compete with 24 back in the day I don't know if I should say their name you guys know I'm talking about they used to sell they used to sell gym memberships and they were all every membership was a three year membership okay now here's how you paid monthly you ready for this? let's say it cost you 900 bucks for three years then you say what I want to pay monthly they had a separate company that would finance your membership it's no different than financing a car there would be an interest rate attached to your monthly payment and if you missed gym memberships it would fuck with your credit all kinds of crazy shit they actually did that so everything was prepaid smart and horrible financing so not only did you buy the membership but you made money on the financing what are those companies called we could do that technically if we had you could hire a company let's say we don't have a product that's like a thousand or two thousand dollars we could hire a company that somebody can make payments on it but we get the money up front and we pay a little bit of interest so they carry it I'm trying to find it finance company I remember people coming in so this is how so 24 Fitness back then was Nautilus it was I don't know if it was the first but it was definitely one of the first that did a month to month cancel whenever you want membership and it was because of this because people were like it messed up my credit it screwed up my whatever I couldn't get a home loan because of this so master off like month to month and you cancel whatever which was brilliant back in the day it was definitely and getting it down to a price where people would be like people have no idea though back in those days when the gym industry was taken off it was so crazy there were general managers this is for other companies I think it was Ray Wilson's family fitness the way they got paid was they would get a budget something like this they would get a budget for the gym and they made whatever they saved I love that teaching you had to be a true operator general managers would have like they would work the front desk they would train people you're talking about in the 90s we're making quarter million dollars a year because of it and that's why so many quit when the merger happened so crazy to not do that I mean that would incentivize me to do all that stuff I'm that guy for sure though I'll do that you had a budget so I could spend money on advertising I could make money here I think the reason why they stopped doing that is because they were attached to the gym that they were making money off of and they would run it to a point where they were making quarter million dollars and then to get them to move to another club or whatever nobody else would be able to do it which you want that mobility and I bet there was a lot of shady stuff happening too where you're just like I'll just not pay for that there's probably things they want you to spend money on because that would be a way I mean I would love to do that that's like the closest thing to it being your gym you know what I'm saying but you have the backing of this big company first off if all of us bought a gym today none of us would want to run it it's too much work but we would want it right if we put someone in charge that we trust it we know lots of people that's probably what we would do we would probably tie them to the budget 100% we will eventually do a maps gym model out there and what will happen though is when we're done and I feel like building everything with this I think that that would be a fun project maybe then you'll let me start a supplement company I will you know I give all my ideas to everyone else I give my ideas all of our partners they get all my brain I want you to know that Dr. Gabriel Lyon called me after that thanked me for that conversation she's like I want to know I had no idea about supplements when Sal said that and you made that comment and I appreciate it I 100% would have went that direction oh to start a company I thought your time about the brilliant idea I gave her remember I told you can you sell a supplement I'm not going to say it well that's what it was I said don't you dare do that and then she was like what I'm doing forever and I'm like no way it's so funny too because in the space I don't know there's something about when people hear gross I got a 20 million dollar company that's all they talk about though but you're in the red would you rather have a 20 million gross company that profits 10-15% margin or a 2 million dollar company that gets 80% margin think about the headaches and then you add in the fact too something that's grossing that much there's so many different moving parts there's probably a lot more employees by the way you just threw out a number 10-15% margin that's a supplement company that's run very well run very well I think it's also important to note that those are companies that have good products because you have huge margins if you have garden well that's what I mean it's run very well so a 20 million dollar company will profit you or 2.5 million dollars that's a lot of staff, warehouse purchasing, suppliers the more people the more moving parts the more headaches just period I would take significantly less money I'd take quite a bit less money with 90% less of the moving parts you have to factor that in a certain point of making millions of dollars the difference between you making 2 million dollars or 4 million dollars it's double you but it's really your lifestyle isn't changing that much plus you guys know I pushed the limits anyway my supplement company would have would definitely but you think of supplements and Jim is like the two go-to moves and then the third one which is a terrible idea the four most popular you just made me list all the worst businesses that's crazy apparel, supplements Jim and then and then membership training the 999 a month app you don't say 999 I'm gonna get big as a trainer, I'm gonna get famous and I'm gonna charge everybody 999 a month subscription model for personal training all terrible ideas it's a brutal model and for some reason we always we glom on you know we've talked nobody out of it right now I think we just talk people into doing it well I'm different if you hear what we're saying and you still want to do it maybe it is for you I mean we compare things to like the Netflix model or the example there's a handful of companies that have proven that model to work and they did it and it's like you know it's just okay I guess if you really believe you're gonna be the one in 100,000 that's gonna make that happen but there's a lot better it reminds me of like what was that data that you showed up on a previous episode the only fans most the average actually the large huge percent I remember it was like 90 something percent of people on there make like less than 50 bucks a month you know but they hear the stories of these girls meanwhile the kids get access to those like their friends are gonna see your pictures yeah but you're posting naked weird stuff yeah what was I said I know I've heard that stat too I don't remember exactly but it was like it's a really small percentage I mean think about that when you have that many girls that are competing on there like you've got to be literally really really unique otherwise even if someone like let's say they're dudes making money I'd be curious I mean look up highest paid male only fans model by the way do you guys want to bet do you think that his number one consumer is women or men man of course no way chicks are paying only fans no way yeah you can get it anywhere dick has always been free yeah dude really dumb girl if you're paying for that just gonna put it out there by the way the highest earning male and only fans is hip hop artists and TV personality Tyga you're already famous not everybody uses only fans even though that's like 80% of the business it's not all of the business so a lot of people can use it top 20 male only fans models let's try that cause you're right cause you're famous yeah people will pay to have access to rock if he's doing things that that could just be just to see what he's up to his lifestyle not necessarily what was Tyga's pay did he say his income from it uh yeah 7.69 million a month oh my god dude what what's he doing I know that's like 7 million a month he is making off of only fans well let me double check bro when I hear stuff like this it just really highlights like this also why I don't think we're gonna see this big crash the wealth gap is getting crazy yeah 7.69 million black china has 20 million a month she's a female obviously Bella Thorne 11 million so Cardi B 9.3 million so anyway mainly women talking with the ratio Andrew you know what it is I know you're a big male only fans guy is it like 80% the creator makes is why I thought you said he's acting like he doesn't know I have no idea stop it is it on the internet you guys I thought you said only fans was editing software so we're paying every month 500 bucks a month we get everybody in trouble who's got that right there's some guy out there it's coming on the credit card bill like that and he's telling his wife it's software so the creator keeps 80% 80% that's right so 80% is 7 million dollars yeah that's crazy what if we did an only fans I think we're missing the mark here guys what would we do on an only fans nothing I can juggle maybe people would pay to see Justin play the guitar with you know with what? chaps on with chaps with assless chaps we should try that actually let's see if we can get some money on it we'll do a reverse only fans I need it in the comments pay money to make Justin stop isn't that I mean I wonder how many people maybe get to do this one how many people make seven figures or more annually and only fans I wonder what the pool of people there was really a graph that showed what percentage maybe I know you're right about that that's for sure but I mean if there's millions people on there that's still like tens of thousands remember when they floated the idea they were gonna stop like doing this public right that was why 300 plus make a million or more 15,000 plus creators earn 50,000 or more how many total yeah break that down I wanna hear those numbers again so around 300 creators make more than a million a year yeah and 16,000 make over 50,000 so somewhere around 50 or above okay that just shows you highlights your point and then how many total creators are there that's a good question let me see how many there are only 300 are in that crazy number so that number with Tyga is like he's one of the 300 most of them are famous people already yeah so okay so hardly anybody's making it yeah they have 187 million users that's users though I don't know what that means so 2.1 million were content creators so 2 million creators 16,000 of which make 50,000 a year yeah and 300 make a million so what are your odds of making nothing yeah what is 16,000 of plus it ain't random it's not like your odds are there because the numbers are there because of those three people they're all famous probably or can do something weird like what Justin said yeah yeah I bet you're right I bet the 300 are all already famous people that are just putting content on that so your chances it looks like about .00015 0015 0015 I think that works out to be .015% chance of making a million of making a million yeah so what are your odds of getting the NFL that might even be better than that yeah that's actually I don't know we have to compare it to other things so people can understand how ridiculous it is what is winning the lottery that's gotta be pretty close to winning the lottery something like that yeah probably oh yeah yeah you can get struck by lightning while you know playing chess with the shark yeah tens of millions by lottery tickets and sometimes there's not even a winner right I mean but it's in that same category I would say I mean I mean obviously lottery is way crazier but I mean it's up there in the like the ten but the difference is you buy a dollar ticket your you know your boobies aren't on the internet well that's the part I think that really sucks is how many people are trying to do that and hope so they're gonna that and then like you'd never do but yet you put all this stuff out there like I mean if I was guaranteed right that I was gonna be one of those 300 or 16,000 or whatever the big ones right the 16,000 that's $50,000 a year oh that's what yeah fuck that I wouldn't do for that for 50 grand yeah no it'd be needing the millions what if it's an AI body you know what I mean like you just construct it and you put it out there yeah but it's not even you it's the but what about your face though you well let's say somebody does that anyways like in the future yeah well AI people are gonna make only fans this is getting weird it's gonna happen you know what else is weird you know what else is weird the kid the three-year-old driving the the one that you were arguing with me about how is that real what bro I'm not gonna look at it it's not real who the hell that's a three-year-old driver around us a racetrack that fast bro he's in it that's dangerous his Instagram is really what is what does his dad do is he like his dad is a professional racecar driver yeah well that's I mean I can see what he's doing he's obviously he's a talent I know it's crazy drive fast in a car yeah what are you doing he's three years old he's three years old that's so crazy but I mean he obviously is showing he's good though he's really good I don't care he had him and his dad and they're obviously they're filthy rich you can see their house yeah he's he's dad is driving it's a private track and the whole deal right yeah yeah I read about it oh yeah so he's driving he's driving in atv his dad is on two wheels on the side like this and his son's doing it on his little 50 same thing yeah and they're just around in a circle you know I can't do that I've been riding since I was a kid that's crazy bro did you ride a bike when you're three I don't remember yeah let alone a fucking his dad has to make a custom car seat so he can reach the pedals of the Ferrari since DNA dude that's my son's age that is wild that's really crazy I don't think he's setting his kid up for failure I think he's eating his bugger I do you do yeah what if the kid never becomes like the best race car like you I don't know I just think it's so dangerous first off we're so different here I would so do that I would totally do that if my son because he crashes he's okay so I always have max around when I'm doing anything I had max at a very young age I would drive my truck and when I was parking it he would stand and grab the steering wheel and if I saw that he had this natural kind of ability to do it all on his own how do you do that though at 3 how do you know that they have now they can reach the pedals I'm sure he's got video game simulators and things like that yeah crazy yeah he's got some things so I'm sure he shows those signs and then I and then if I like my son would be terrified to get out on the like he has him on a wakeboard to teach him how to how to surf max wouldn't even get in the water and even attempt that so I would never force him to do it but if he got up there and want bro I would all about it I would so practice for hours with him if he's showing that he's in and obviously you can see the kids not tortured he's enjoying what he's doing with his dad a big smile on his face and having all kinds of fun so my son was doing that I would oh yes yes I would I would totally do it and if you pull up to the stoplight yeah I'm gonna race that car over he's got a car seat literally in a car seat I would think like this sippy cup yeah I'd be like this is an adult with a really strange condition there's a video of him there's a video of him he's in one of those TRX you know ATVs you know those little TRX ones and he's pulling a little mini size like custom-made boat and he he's trailering it and he drives it he backs it in first of all you know how hard it is to back a full to put it down into the smaller a vehicle is and the smaller a trailer is the more difficult it is to back up straight so it's driven like an ATV and like a trailer a small trailer behind you it takes a lot of skill to keep that straight because it does just a little bit of play this kid literally backs up a small trailer like that which is already hard gets the boat in climbs in his boat takes his boat off is driving the boat he's drinking the sippy cup he's driving hilarious I just read an article where these two kids they weren't nearly this young but a 10 and 11 year old got mad at their mom because they took away their devices their electronics so they were pulled over on the freeway they had already driven 200 miles they were driving to California run away from mom they were 10 and 11 year old 10 and 11 year old got pulled over they had already gone 200 miles away from mom because she took away their electronics you want to talk about first of all epic story for the rest of your life that time I ran away and I drove 200 miles but they caught pull them over like 10 year old some kids have that idea but they would never actually execute you know like that's insane should I tell you guys when I tried to run away once my parents did I ever tell you that I was a smart ass as a kid how old were you? I was probably 4 and I was like arguing with my parents and I'm like I'm gonna run away I remember I said something like that did you make one of those little hobo sacks? I'm gonna run away and so my mom's like I'm gonna call your bluff right she's like okay you know I'll help you pack so I'm like okay so now it's like who's gonna win so she gave me a little suitcase and I put toys in that shit closed it up and went to the front door and my mom opened the front my dad was there too and they're like alright see you later buddy they opened the front door and then I walked out and they closed the front door and then they looked through the people and my parents loved telling the story I stood there for like 10 minutes just staying in the front door I was probably thinking of my stuff like fuck what do I do now yeah where do I go so then I turned around rang the doorbell again my mom answered the door she's like oh what is it and I'm like I forgot my jacket I did the same thing I can't leave without my jacket I did the same thing but I was like I would say I was more like 8 8 or 9 and what I did was I said the same thing and my parents very similar I was like go ahead and we lived out in the country and we had one of these flat flat roofs was actually like a mobile home that we built that someone built custom house or attached it around it and so it was like this shitty flat roof and you could if you went around the back you could climb up on it and me running away was climbing up on the roof and I made it all the way till dinner and then I got really hungry I started thinking about how am I going to eat I got to come back to the house logistics I'm never coming back home and there's like oh my stomach I'm so hungry right now imagine you have a kid that's hard headed and it's like oh I'm actually going to leave and you're like alright we got to play scale this up and you dress up as a robber scare him ah ah someone tried to get me hey let's shut that kid out let's just handle Doug Zanesofuglu it's d-a-y-n-s-o-f-u-o-g-l-u that must be his name check this kid out this kid's amazing sleep is one of the most important factors when it comes to your health including your ability to build muscle and burn body fat well there's a company called Eatsleep that has the most advanced and impactful sleep system you'll find anywhere in the world literally it goes on your bed and it controls the temperature of your bed and it tracks your sleep to maximize your sleep literally individualizes the temperature in your bed and the conditions of your bed to help encourage better sleep there's nothing on the market like this company it is literally a game changer raise your growth hormone levels help optimize testosterone maximize recovery build more muscle more body fat have less cravings those are all the result of better sleep go check them out by the way they ship all over the world including Canada, the UK some countries in Europe and even Australia and of course all over America go check them out go to Eatsleep.com forward slash mind pump and on that link you'll save $150 off alright back to the show our first caller is Chris from Missouri Chris what's happening man how can we help you what is up guys this is wild did not expect to start my morning like this so very cool you didn't have an appointment to call it so my main question is in regards to maps anabolic Sal I've heard you say in the past that in regards to trigger sessions your kind of inspiration behind that was noticing people that worked like physical labor jobs such as mailman having developed cabs or mechanics with the forearms inspiration for incorporating trigger sessions so my question was if you already work a job that's hyper physical like that are trigger sessions necessary or is the day to day activity of the job actually kind of taking the place of those that's a good question so here's the other thing that I noticed what's your job that real quick I am a truck driver delivery driver specifically so we'll do like food delivery to restaurants so on a given day I'll have between 500 to 700 boxes on my truck in various ways from like 10 pounds to up to 70 80 pounds all every box on the truck is unloaded by hand throw it on a dolly up and down a ramp into the store back to the trailer until it's empty so yeah okay so how long have you been doing that two years of this specific job but I've been in this industry for probably like six years between doing this I worked for a beverage before that FedEx so a lot of physical stuff Chris do you remember how you felt the day of after work and the day after work when you first started I would say maybe the first six months to a year do you remember how your body felt the main thing I remember specifically is like sore joints like elbows knee pain stuff like that acclimating to it but now on a day to day basis I don't really notice it that's the point so you're still sending somewhat of a low level signal I notice that for someone your size your biceps seem to be pretty well developed that's probably from loading and carrying boxes okay trigger sessions provide a low level muscle building signal but they don't compare to traditional strength training really what they do is they kind of turbo charge or add a little extra now for someone like yourself here's what ends up happening use the right word acclimate I noticed with blue collar workers that they after doing it for years and years and years it becomes just their day to day they're no longer sore they don't hurt whereas if I go and try and help somebody if I go with some movers for example and help them move a house people have been doing this for 10 years I'm going to be really sore after helping them work and they feel like nothing because their bodies are totally acclimated so adding additional trigger sessions to your maps anabolic routine probably is going to still have some benefit because your body is so acclimated and adapted to what you do that being said there's some other things that we want to consider that I think are more important because you have a physical job even though your body does acclimate you're still under a little more stress than the average person in terms of your physical stress yeah how's your rest now there's there's a I mean of course stress encompasses a lot of different things so you know somebody could be very stressed out because of life circumstance that can weigh their body down more than let's say moving boxes for example but all things considered always consider the amount of activity you do recovery how you feel if adding trigger sessions or doing too many days of strength training starts to make you feel like too sore tired you start to notice your strength gains aren't coming or maybe even going backwards you're just doing too much that would be the main thing to consider but someone like you who's been doing it for so long I mean you can your body's used to it it's not really I mean it's definitely work still but it's not stressing your body at all nowhere near like it was when you first started I think the way I would make this decision on what I do trigger sessions or not would actually be more on the aesthetic side right I think that you have enough stress you have enough activity you're moving the body around so you're going to facilitate and speed up recovery so that's all good blood flow, oxygen, getting the muscles nutrients it's just going to help that because you're moving around so much so you're getting the benefits from that than the average person wouldn't get because they're sitting maybe at a desk job so the only other thing that would make me go hey should I add in trigger sessions is if I had specific areas that I'd want to target so let's say you're you're carrying boxes so you are probably getting a lot of like bicep and forearm and maybe even a little bit of shoulder stuff but you know maybe my back is a little underdeveloped or you know maybe my chest you know so I might do trigger sessions that are just focused on chest flies and and back rows you know you got a lot of leg you're moving up and down with legs so maybe your legs aren't really underdeveloped but if they are then maybe that's so I would look at specific body parts that you care about that you would and then that would be the only thing I'm probably triggering throughout the day because you are getting enough activity that you're you don't necessarily have to do it but you still to Sal's point you would still see benefit from incorporating them especially in areas that you want to develop those yeah that was exactly the direction I was thinking but mainly from a corrective perspective of you continuously kind of reaching in front and having a lot of positional postural kind of positions where you know to counter that with with rows and with you know pull downs and get like more posterior chain kind of focused exercise to kind of help complement what you're doing every day just on a low level intensity so you get that kind of volume to sort of balance and equate but yeah you do you definitely have to because you're already so physically active I would definitely monitor that in terms of how it's it's overstressing you or you're finding that kind of sweet spot how to complement the point that Justin's making reminds me of like all the hairdressers or engineers you know computer tech people that I would I would train they're so rounded forward all day long like so I wouldn't do any trigger stuff on their delts or their pecs or anything like that because they're already I would have them do like yeah band pull apart and rows to complement all this activity so there is some definitely value to address that so those are kind of that I guess that would be the two things I would look at if I'm used I'm going okay is there things I can do to address you know postural imbalances because what I do all day that I could do is my trigger sessions or are there muscles that I want to bring up and develop more I'm going to focus on those two main areas that's how I'm going to develop my trigger sessions Chris just for fun if you wouldn't mind if you could just stand up and go sideways so I can look at the side profile your arm because I want to point something out can out now yeah so yeah okay good now stand facing forward and flex your bicep for a second I want to look at something here this is getting weird no it's not up here like this out here like this take your shirt off so what you're going to notice going to put your arm down what you'll notice is so for the average yeah no so for the for the average guy so typically the tricep is about two-thirds of the size of the upper arm now notice in your arm it's a good bicep it's about one to one or maybe even bicep overpowers a little bit also when you're standing and moving around you can for the average person I don't think this is disproportionate I think this is the way an arm is supposed to look but compared to the average person your forearms are really large compared to your upper arms so biceps forearms that's a direct result of you moving boxes 100% you'll almost you'll almost never see a bicep overpower a tricep on an individual except for maybe a gymnast or people who carry a lot of things like boxes and stuff like that so that's a direct result of of the work that you're doing now you know to back to what they were saying and you could if you want from an aesthetic standpoint you could do more tricep work more maybe mid-back work you know areas that maybe not working so much and then to what Justin was saying if you do notice certain nagging injuries from the work you do correctional type exercises would be a great trigger session I did want to point out just the development you've already got from the work that you do and in fact if I didn't know you and I were to look at you and kind of guess what kind of work you did or if you did physical work I would guess you did something where you were carrying things do you have maps prime pro? I do not I got the summer bundle with like aesthetic hit symmetry and then anabolic so you're set there I think those are all great programs to have I think prime pro for some of the points that Justin was making so if you start to notice shoulder nagging or elbow stuff that you mentioned before anything like that using the movements that are in there like trigger sessions is very valuable to you we're going to send that over to you so you have that I think you've got the right programs for lifting and stuff but you can use that as a great reference tool if you have any of those issues but really what we talked about the two main things is what I would focus on if I'm you with my trigger sessions so a quick question in regards like so I have aesthetic would your recommendation be to kind of treat my trigger sessions similar to those off days on aesthetic term for them but target those weekend body parts yeah you can or you could do them trigger session style so lower intensity three times a day right exactly yeah no I love the idea of your focus sessions like I would if I'm knowing you already from what we've talked like it I wouldn't be doing biceps and probably like my front of my delts is like focus I might do like rear delts and triceps as my main foot upper mid-backs yeah yeah I would pick like stuff like that probably core just to help you stabilize with your work those are all good suggestions awesome I appreciate it guys you got it man thanks for calling in thank you you got it isn't that funny though you could see like oh yeah rarely do you see a tricep and bicep one to one or even you know larger bicep but you'll see that with people like that and then even blue collar pay attention if you have a family member who swings a hammer all the time look at the size of their hands and forearms to their upper arms I've seen so many carpenters with like almost skinny looking upper arms why are we right and then this like massive form yeah oh yeah that's super crying construction I mean that was like my stepdad my stepdad four arms were the size of his upper arm yeah that's from swinging a hammock you know it's funny though someone like that I bet he doesn't feel that way he sees himself every day it's like low level he's seen over over you so you don't look at yourself go like oh I got great biceps he probably thinks that it's not that way it's obvious he takes another person from the outside looking in to go like I can tell by your structure the development in your biceps is is more than just working on his triceps his arms are going to look huge yes be in comparison to that yeah when I first started dating Jessica years ago she was at that time very into claiming the silks and so I mean she was really I mean she could pull herself up with just her hands and she had a bicep that overpowered her tricep her arm you know had that look to it and now obviously it's more balanced out because she's she's trained on balancing it but you rarely see that right triceps typically overpower the rest of the arms like two-thirds the size of the arm and that's kind of a tell-tale like oh you carry things for a living yeah if that's where it comes from if it was me in seeing his physique already and if he's running oh I go chest triceps I would do literally triceps rear delts that's it yeah that would be like triceps and rear delts is going to address a little bit of the posture stuff it's going to build his shoulders yes his his it'll bring his physique really really together if he cares about that that's something he cares about those of the two like muscle groups I would pretty much focus on on focus days and or trigger our next caller is Justin from Texas hey what's up man how can we help you hey guys how's it going thank you for taking the call really appreciate it before I get into my question Adam I just wanted to point out hey don't let these guys clown you're right there's nothing wrong with getting up three or four times in the middle of the night down on the toilet my guy you know what your wife probably loves you too bro she does that's the difference between guys like you and I their wives don't even like they're only with them for the money I can see how it's convenient because Adam sleeps in a night it's really easy to pull up the night throwing that out there guys you got it how can we help you let's take your man card yeah so my question so a little backstory real quick before I really get into the question so grown up in high school and whatnot I was kind of a heavy set kid wasn't into fitness or anything like that it wasn't until I was around 20 years old I never saw myself doing anything physical the job I wanted to do physical activity I had to lose a lot of weight I was 230 pounds 5 foot 8 back then 20 years old sub 35% BMI or whatever so I ran lost a lot of weight in about a 4 month period got down to like 165 started doing this job got into weightlifting bolted up to about 185 wasn't really paying attention to diet or anything so fitness has been a part of my life now since I was 20 now I've been lifting I kind of considered myself kind of I guess bodybuilder style like I didn't care about strength as far as like I didn't want to be able to bench 300 pounds I just wanted to look like I could you know so I never really cared about that I didn't really pay attention to diet or anything flash forward Covid like many of us happened things changed a little bit I was still working out pretty consistently during that time but I wasn't paying as much attention to diet and as you get older I'm 35 now right so it kind of gets up on you social drinking turned into more well I'm not socially going out anymore so it turned into more less social drinking by myself yeah I might and yeah so after a couple years of that I kind of snuck up on me it wasn't until probably six months ago or so where I was like alright I need to kind of get the center control discovered you guys I thought I had a pretty good understanding of working out changed my outlook on that as far as pursuing strength goals and progressive overload so since then so I had a metabob testing done a few months back they had me at around 2700 calories for maintenance I was found myself eating around 2300 calories so I solely worked my way up going through anabolic I got up to I think by the time I ended anabolic I was at around 2600 calories went into performance got up to 3000 calories but notice my waistline was starting to grow during that time also I had we do the bod pod so I had my body fat percentage check so just to update I'm five foot eight I'm about 230 pounds or those 220 pounds when I did the spot pad and they had me at 33% body fat so I guess my main question is so taking diet and stuff into control so I completely cut alcohol out of my diet over the last couple months which was more challenging than I care to admit and so since then I'm paying attention to my diet then my lifts have gone up exponentially I guess I'm just curious how far should I keep pushing the calories and stuff and pursuing these strength goals before I start taking body fat things into account as far as like cutting like doing mini cuts or whatever let's address that first I got to address I don't think you're 30% body fat that doesn't seem right at all doesn't sound right no you stand up for me and I'm doing this again but sounds making it our last caller I don't think you're 30% you look like you might be in the 20s but you ain't 30% that's strange anyway okay so how how long should you go on this kind of reverse typically what we say is you want to get to a point where you feel like you can cut from okay so meaning it's hard to eat more food yeah we're like okay I think I could cut 500 calories or 800 calories and I think I could sustain that that's where you typically want to get I have a couple questions before you give where do you think you're at steps wise have you tracked like I'm curious what your movement throughout the day looks like do you have a sedentary job are you active no so I'm it's a mix between sedent so I teach so I when I'm teaching I'm very engaged in moving around I purposely get at least 10,000 set today but on average especially on days when I'm teaching which is at least four to five days a week I'm averaging around 16,000 steps okay so that gives me a little bit more information so based off of that your size you're lifting I actually would want you definitely get up your calories to a higher point before we cut that's a good amount of movement you're a good size dude we should be at least getting up to like 3,500 calories before we come back the other direction so that's a good generic number but really the way to look at it is how you feel right like what Sal was kind of alluding to which is let's keep trying to build strength build your metabolism up add calories till you get to a place where you're kind of like man this is a lot of food this is I don't even like eating this much food now that's a natural time to come back the other direction or you could also interrupt these you know reverse dieting with many cuts so let's say you've been slowly creeping the calories up and you've been doing that for the last say two months and you haven't even though you're not to 3,500 calories yet you haven't interrupted it with like a week or two week cut and do that for a week or two and then go right back to trying to get back up again and just kind of playing that game is every four to six weeks interrupt with like a two week cut then go four to six weeks and then cut and just kind of keep doing that until you've reached a place where you're eating probably 3,500 calories or so or reach a place where you're like that's a lot of food now I want to go the other direction and along the way if we do this correctly you should actually be able to slowly increase calories and feel like you're leaning out a little bit because you're interrupting with this cuts that would be my prediction if we did this right that's that's exactly how I would do it I mean if you haven't done like a cut or a short cut in a little while I think that's a good idea to do something like that and so what what Adam's essentially telling you to do is a step ladder kind of approach where you bump calories maintain for a little bit drop down for a bit and then do it again bump maintain for a bit I like I like a 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 ratio of slow reverse to cut so you know you could do four weeks six weeks and then like a week or two two weeks of a mini cut and a mini cut is literally a few hundred calories below maintenance you don't need to do anything more than that and I think that would be the best strategy at this point so if I get it up to like say 3300 calories and my maintenance is like 27 so if I'm bulking and I get up to 33 when I go to do my mini cut just dropping down to like 25 your maintenance if you're at 3300 calories that would be and you're not gaining any weight that's your maintenance so let's say you're at 3300 and you're doing it for three four weeks and the weight is not changing on the scale that's your new maintenance that yeah remember that your maintenance is changes all the time yeah and you only need to go like so when you're in a quote unquote bulk and by the way I think you I don't I think you said that you got that number from like the bod pod or one of those things like I care more about you tracking consistently than I give a shit about those machines because those things are fucking never really that accurate it's real they're a good place to start and give you an idea like okay so I should be around 7200 calories that's fine the real thing I want to see is what calories can you eat and not gain or lose weight that's and it should be somewhere around that numbers between 26 and 3000 based off of where you're at so I'd want to find that first and then a bulk for you is only reversing 250 to 500 calories at most higher than that and then a cut would be 250 to 500 below that and that's kind of how you would toggle between them when you're when you're one when you're in a bulk your 250 to 500 above when you're in a cut your 250 to 500 below and you're just kind of doing that ladder approach like sowsing and I love the like like six weeks than two six weeks than two and kind of go that way but four and one is fine also okay and then as far as training so I'm like at the this is like my second time running through anabolic I'm at the end of I'm about to finish phase three right now the last week and then I was planning on jumping into power lifting after that I like and then maybe static after that or maybe symmetry to interrupt one of those I like all those choices you did say you've run performance so you've addressed some mobility stuff I would consider doing symmetry to go like I love power lift necks and then maybe symmetry after that to interrupt it then go to aesthetic I think that would be a good choice what do you think Justin yeah I think symmetry after power lift do you have symmetry I don't have symmetry that's why I was going to go into aesthetic after that because I got the maps well we'll send you symmetry so we'll send symmetry on us but I like the idea of the power lift staying focused on the building strength you just went through mobility and I'm sure you got some value out of that and you know getting back to just ramping up your your force output I think is going to do you a lot of good for building muscle yeah to me I love I love anabolic and power lift when I'm trying to like build metabolism with a client just to really those are really good strength based programs and that's a great place to be mentally when you're trying to reverse diet so I love that strategy and then after that I like the idea of running like a symmetry between aesthetic mm-hmm yeah I will say so performance it wasn't my favorite I need to do more of it right but I will say after doing performance I kind of got through that and then when I started anabolic again phase one I we talked I heard you guys talking with us before but there's some days you go to the gym and I threw the weight on to deadlifts and I was like oh more oh more and I added like almost damn near 50 pounds brief break so that's awesome performance for the listeners keep that in mind since you have the self-awareness to know that about yourself like that's unlike you I mean sounds like we have some things in common where that's not my style lifting but that I'm always like aware away from that for a while make sure you cycle back there you know at least once a year you're getting back into a program like that because it will always benefit you I appreciate that one last thing before I before I go I just I appreciate your guys's content and I know you guys are always trying to push out like ways of correlating information how fitness is a journey so something that was taught to me back when I first got into the field that I work in mentor explained to me once he's like going to school and stuff you kind of learn that there's an alphabet and then if you these alphabets make sounds and you can put these letters together to create words and you can put words together to create sentences right and as you go on through your journey and you start learning more you realize I go I can put sentences together to create thought and paragraphs and then as I learn more I can create an entire book worth of knowledge and I know that was something that always stuck to me as I've gone through my career and sounds like you guys kind of fitness I never really gave much credit to being something like that but definitely the more I've learned the more I've realized that that tends to be the case so appreciate what you guys do up there great analogy yeah yeah thanks guys take it easy all us justins with the analogies yeah this is better than mine I don't know sometimes those those body fat readings are so weird you know like 40% body in both directions to like I've never been able to wrap my brain around why Katrina always tests abnormally weirdly low like so low always again she's always tested I've told you guys this like 10 to 12% body fat and I've done like every method with her and like and controlled all these so just sometimes they're just for some well the calculations I don't know I think underwater weighing might be different but the calculations I mean I've done that too with her I know it's weird that's why it's I'm like the calculations on calipers for example are based off of cadavers so they know what what a general body fat percentage is on a human who's bicep tricep sub scapula actually scoop it out like weigh it they literally they literally remove the fat from the cadaver that's what they say the most accurate way is to do that right plus remember what Dr. Gabriel lion told us is the quality quality of muscle you know the biggest takeaway from something like that to me though is like this is why the number doesn't matter if it is 35 what matters is did he go from 35 down to 30 now a downward trend yeah it literally it does not matter people to get hung up so much on what these machines and things are telling them and everybody wants to argue with it like they're very very valuable tools so I think it's a the thing is you don't just throw them out because it's it's inaccurate to you because what they are good is measuring the difference of change based off of the variables and that's how you use our next caller is Aaron Aaron from Texas Aaron what's happening man how can we help you hello guys I appreciate it well first I've already helped me a whole bunch I mean pretty much saved my life almost so growing up I've been playing sports since I was two baseball basketball football tennis pretty much I mean just nonstop outside but since then the one thing that was kind of never I guess relayed to me was the importance of strength training and kind of just like having muscle to do stuff and so over time it's gotten me super bad imbalances between my right and left side I'm right side dominant I was a pitcher in baseball so super forward shoulders but my imbalances got so bad that my left side my jaw would lock I couldn't open my mouth for probably more than an inch at times I'd have to like like push the bottom of my jaw just to be able to open it to eat food at some points never really like used my left side for anything so I didn't have like too much mobility so I go from right side I feel like is super forward left side kind of nothing my I guess obliques right side you can kind of feel I have you know muscle definition left side is like super squishy it doesn't help that I clean pools now so I've been cleaning pools for about three years that probably doesn't help it I've also lost so I lost over 100 pounds from I got really sedimentary I worked at a Jimmy John's for about nine years and kind of slowly gained weight gained weight I was always the person who I could eat a lot but I didn't ever really feel like I would gain weight you know until I was actually like not moving and then it hit me I still play competitive softball and so I would just constantly be getting hurt be getting hurt it's my lower back mainly lower left side and until I actually listen to you guys for about a year now and I actually like it I don't know click to the like maybe I should work now like actually hitting everything I feel like my CNS is never everything I do I feel like I just couldn't get the form like you know at the beginning to go through and really connect everything so slightly work out then I'd take some time off slightly work out take some time off until actually just recently I actually started to I went through anabolic kind of ran it through almost all the way through but it was super weight because you know like I said left and right side and when I would do dead hangs I'd hang for a bit and I'd kind of get to just opening everything up I'd kind of do some twist I do some like you know flopping just kind of loosening everything up and when I'd come down my left side just it's opened up but man there would be so much like pain to just try to stand up like I'd want to like I don't know fall down so for the longest time I feel like everything was so closed in until I've really started to put an emphasis on you know getting my shoulders open opening my chest when I do everything and that's helped a whole bunch I think that's helped with a lot of my I've had constant sinus issues since I was little just feels like nothing could drain of my head has always had so much pressure so now that I've started to kind of move in this you know I kind of more so know what to do but it's kind of the where to go now I was wondering about symmetry but actually just the last day of the sale I purchased it and I did I think one day of it just to see kind of how it was but I guess the main question is I'm trying to figure out bands I guess bands suspension or symmetry I feel like for me to get started would be the way to go just to try to help get my CNS and everything kind of more together to then be able to go and you know lift be able to lift heavy weights I guess without hurting is where I'm trying to get at Aaron you're going to live in map symmetry not the last phase for like a year and skip the last phase I figure okay so literally follow map symmetry follow all the phases except for the last one and cycle through it and cycle through it and it's going to be at least a year at least of that kind of training for you to balance yourself out we're talking about years and years and years and years so yeah so I've been going before I started listening to you guys I have a really bad habit but I think for me it's a super good habit a whole bunch throughout the day I'm constantly like I would sit in my I'm in my truck working right now but sit here and push try to like you know get everything straightened push but also have my shoulders back I used to not be able to do it with my left side it would so I can feel I want to say I have a winged scapula on my left side because I can get it to I guess click back in and I'll do this like at home everything I'll you know get everything posture right shoulders back and I'll do like you know these just to open everything up and I'll go through and like get like the clipping I guess not clipping it's not the right word but it feels like it's kind of going back into place and so I'll do that and kind of do some isometric holds so I think that has already helped a whole bunch I've been doing that for probably about a year year and a half now just every time I go home and I'm kind of in the living room I'm doing like something you know to just work on getting my posture open because I think we should you helped me prime pro also absolutely so I think you should live in symmetry like Sal said and since and your idea of what you're doing you're on the right track I think we're going to give you things that are more specific though like so your your concept of like doing it and being and being aware of it and kind of and doing this all time so I want you to go through prime pro and and assess all and we're obviously mainly focusing on the upper body stuff with you I'm sure your your hips and some of that kind of you but I would with what you got going on being a baseball player tennis all those things and so dominant on the right I would focus on all the upper body type of prime pro exercises and a lot of those you can you can do those outside or when you're between jobs or stop and get against the wall and do some things like a lot of those things that you can just practice a little bit of what I do yeah bro that's good that's good that's good that you do that and so between that symmetry you're going to and you know we did say stay out of the last phase I would allow you if you were my client a workout or a week of bilateral stuff meaning like the final phase of just so you could feel how you're progressing like oh wow that like each every round that you go through symmetry is modern intensity yeah just go do a do a light round or the light week of those exercises just to see like oh wow this is feeling better or I'm getting better at this I think there's some value in just testing so you can see your progress and that way it's motivating to like keep coming back and working on it I think a good goal for you for you too like so yeah obviously going through symmetry and then prime pro really addressing like your overall functionality of your shoulder like there's a lot there that you need to teach your shoulder again to be able to function properly and reconnect to a lot of those muscles to be able to stabilize it and pack it and all that kind of stuff a good goal in terms of throwing one exercise I want you to work on exclusively is the windmill and it's going to be insanely difficult on one side oh that one yeah it's so just because of everything yeah I've started to do I've started to do that some I so I go to the gym fairly often used to be a 24 and then it turned into a Texans fit and then it eos and so I like to go three to four times a week at least I try I've been so so busy lately my clean pools and I go coach gymnastics in the evenings so when I have time I like to go but I do strictly like you know kind of this stuff more like corrective exercise instead of going in and like lifting weights but every now and then I'll go in and mainly I'll do some if I lift compound lifts it's some bench press some squats and some overhead presses but really it and it finally click honestly like two two days ago I finally got try the best I've ever had my kind of my I guess range of motion because I feel like my my ribs on my left side is a little bit flared and I'm assuming that's from my I call it a wingscap out and I've never actually gone to see if that's what it actually is but so then I'm you know and I can finally like actually feel like I'm doing like all the exercises the right way so I know I'm there's I'm in the right progression but I guess figuring out there's a few there's a few steps here so well first thing I want to say when you do symmetry let your weaker side dictate the weight in the reps okay so always always start with the weaker side if you're only doing 15 pounds for 10 reps with perfect form on your left then that's what you do on the right even though it's easy and you're going to keep training in symmetry for like I said for a year because what's going to happen the the steps are better control and connection that's you're starting to notice that now and then then the muscle development comes okay so you have to stay there for a little while even if it feels connected keep training because look we're trying to undo decades of unilateral or you know one-sided type of training or exercise or movement and then the windmills are good for the QL like you're mentioning pain and you're right under your what's called the sacroiliac joint so you can look that up SI joint that's probably where you're feeling it and I agree with Justin it probably has to do with yeah probably has to do with your QL your QL muscle is probably a weakness and instability there so map symmetry live in there that's it don't do anything else for at least a year and you should see significant progress all of this will be solved with strength and that's what we're trying to build and develop on that size we have to exclusively just surrender and be 100% in on you know working on that side and that's dictating what your other side does it's also probably a good it's also probably a good strategy to not be doing this in like a major cut or anything and to be more focused on maintenance to a slight surplus because we're trying to build muscle you don't want to you don't want to be on a massive goal that's another thing too I'm not I've after I lost so I guess I lost 100 and so pounds not so not fully healthy kind of healthy but not really healthy I would never like trying to lose it but I started working at Amazon some constantly you know delivering packages all day wasn't eating very much and then that actually clicked to then I would start eating more my main goal my my go tos were like Chipotle twice a day but now I've actually I guess kind of cut down I don't know if I'm in a cut but I've got my protein actually up I've been shedding a whole bunch recently so I'm down a whole bunch of body fat already but now I'm aiming I guess I still eat like intuitively I have the creatures I have it in the morning and then I mainly do ground beef, rice and veggies or steak, veggies and rice there's no way for us to there's no way for us to know there's no way for us to know your calories and stuff are just based off what you're saying but I think what Adam is saying Adam show what they are either try not to intentionally lose weight that's the main thing don't try to lose weight or cut just eat the way you are hit your protein targets live in symmetry the first few phases skip the last phase and by the end of the year you should see some significant improvement I mean it's going to take some time tough but it's going to work 100% will work as long as you're consistent and I'm I guess the other thing too is certain body parts I guess I'm not so sure which side is more dominant because through obviously I'd assume my right side is but then I went into quite a bit of a phase where cleaning pools carry all this equipment to the back guards so I would switch over to my using kind of my left arm to do it but maybe that is I'm assuming why my oblique on my right side is so much more dominant than my left side because I wasn't using my right hand because then I didn't want to even make sense that's kind of my assumption of why my no no start with the left my left oblique isn't start with the left that's your weaker side start with the left alright man thanks for calling in brother appreciate it you got it man have you guys ever worked with someone I've had this client a dozen times I mean he's a great person for the audience to hear us talk to live because he's an extreme version of what kind of happens to so many people you know he's a very extreme and so it's very obvious but this is going on with a lot of clients where they just have a dominant side and they have little nagging pains here and there that can never figure out but for athletes especially sports I trained a senior in high school to throw 90 miles an hour he threw heat never did any strength training or any balancing and was pitching forever and I mean you could look at him and see the structure to the point where I think even his bones on his right side were thicker and more dense and I had almost exclusively trained trained them unilaterally on the weaker side using that to dictate things because it was profound well the hard part is addressing someone like if he was 20 and he's in the middle of playing his sports well that's a different subject because you can't really impede on his actual performance because he's mastered this pattern so for him he's interested in health and not feeling pain you know without being affected too much that's a good message for parents though with kids who play sports is try to balance them out because if they do the same thing over and over again especially a sport that dominates one side it results in problems later on yeah that's why it's I mean every world class coach I've talked to is like in terms of young kids need to play multiple sports so it definitely has a way of kind of working that way out our next caller is Luke from Michigan hey guys how we doing thanks for having me on good man thanks for calling man well first off gotta say thanks for all that you guys do I've been listening for probably 5 or 6 years now so I've been listening to you guys a long time yeah it's crazy I'm like seeing you guys right here so yeah thanks but yeah just to give you guys a quick background former athlete played at a small college over here in Michigan ended 2 years because of too many concussions but ended up transferring going into pre-physical therapy decided to do some training on the side to you know paper college all that kind of stuff but I've been training ever since ended up taking that as a full-time position I've been or I guess it was a full-time trainer for about 6-7 years nutrition coach whole 9 yards so you know helped a lot of people I guess my my question is you know I've tried bulks cuts the whole 9 yards obviously I'm training I've helped a lot of people I know the whole deal with all that but I just can never seem to figure it out for myself I'm 27 now I got a 7 month old new house coming up here so I know the stress and everything can add to that but right now I'm at 207 probably around 16% body fat I probably have to say and just want to get under 200 if not you know 190 lose some body fat and just kind of get underneath those numbers a little bit so I guess that would be I guess my official question would be because again I've done the calculator I've done a couple calculators now where it says about 3,000 cows Adam I know that you touch on weighing the food and whole night and all that kind of stuff so I've weighed the food I know what I'm eating and usually I'm not about 27 28 I'm still lifting at least 3 if not 5 times a week usually full body and yeah I just can't if anything I'm gaining weight so just wanted to kind of ask you guys your opinion on that yeah so this is um when you get to a certain body fat 16%, 15% is not bad that's an athletic body fat percentage it's a healthy body fat percentage now to start to get below that genetics aside right because some people can maintain the leaner body fat than others but for most guys when they start to try to get below around 15% they overshoot or they start to undershoot ok so what you need to do is really be consistent with your tracking because you gave us an idea but you need to be really consistent for like 2 weeks to get exact numbers and then literally hit macros on a regular consistent 7 day basis and then see what ends up happening because my guess is and this happens is very common where you'll be like ok I'm gonna start eating a little bit less I'm gonna eat in this range and there might be a day or two where you're a little off and not realizing how much that makes an impact on the whole thing I mean at 15% body fat or so you know if you're off for a day or two you're just gonna maintain to get leaner at this point you gotta be very consistent with the calories so do you know that the story you're sharing it's actually almost identical like except for let's see here how much you weigh right now about 207 ok so you're a little bit thicker than I was but right around this time it was about 25 when it happened for me I had this exact issue and I've told this story on the podcast before where I could not wrap my brain around why can't I get like and I literally this is actually what drove me to using steroids because at that point in my life and career I really thought this has to be the only difference between me and those covers and magazines I got all that's crossed my mind I'm gonna go that far but I mean that's totally what I thought I really believed at that time that all these guys on covers and magazines the only difference between them and me is they've taken steroids I haven't taken steroids and so it's gotta be that what happened though was this is around the time when the body bug came out and it was a tracker so I was now getting back feedback data day to day every single day consistently and it really blew my mind the difference of my calorie expenditure and my calorie intake on my off days compared to work as a trainer you know you're pretty damn active you're lifting you know barbells dumbbells all day helping clients you're moving man my my calorie burn on work days versus my off days there was a massive discrepancy and I in my head I'm like I'm 95% it dialed on my diet and training why am I not seeing it but what I thought was like 5% was a much bigger number than I realized until I started to track that diligently and then the next thing to Sal's point then it was really about stringing consistency together of like okay now I have a better understanding of I was not burning as much and if I was falling off the diet or not being perfect on that one or two days it was like the worst day I could do it and it would make up the difference and it would it would be just enough to keep me at that 15 to 70% like I could stay again like you healthy healthy finish but I couldn't get shredded I couldn't get jacked looking and it was like driving me crazy and it was I had never figured out to that level like oh my god this is what every day looks like consistently for me and then it was literally about stringing days together I've told this story to like something that worked for me was okay I'm gonna have as many perfect days of eating in in a row and then let's say you know I strung nine of those together and then I had a little mishap where so I was off a little bit okay start over now the new goal is can I get 10 or more days and then I get to 13 fell off and then I just kept doing that until I could say hey I just strung three three months of perfection and of course that's when I started to see myself get leaner and leaner and leaner and more shredded and then I had the tools and then I figured out how to do this just to give you an example Luke like let's say you're at a calorie deficit Monday through Friday of 300 calories okay you're very consistent you brought your meals to work you're eating the same thing 300 calorie deficit Monday through Friday and then Saturday and Sunday you know you're a little looser you try to pay attention to your protein but you're not really tracking anything very very easily very easily guy your size could go 700 to 800 calories above maintenance easy super easy the point where you won't even notice you're tracking well now what you're at is zero for the week you literally just made up the difference and what and what will happen is you'll maintain and for most people most guys if they're healthy and fit and they strength train and they don't eat terribly and they you know eat good protein and they generally avoid heavily processed foods they're gonna naturally which is what's happening to you sit at around 15% that's a great place to be to maintain live your life you're probably you're still consistent with your workouts you eat mostly healthy you do your job it's not a big deal but now you want to drop down another 4% or 5% you want to get a six pack get down to 10% it's a lot harder than a lot of people realize not necessarily the steps but the consistency 10% body fat which is probably what you're aiming for where you see your abs and you have a six pack or whatever 10% body fat is seven days a week consistent which is this yeah it's literally one day it's probably one day a month where you're off to be at 10% to maintain that that's this for most people so that's that's probably what's happening you also mentioned you had some gut stuff some gut issue stuff going on yeah yeah I wanted to touch on that too but before I get to that I feel like I have honestly been pretty consistent like even throughout the weekend you know I don't drink anymore you know I'm still tracking on the weekend eating clean rice quinoa sweet potatoes meat whole nine yards and now granted again probably to your guys point or to say what you just said it takes kind of that one day and obviously life hits and we all kind of have that one day so yeah I could probably clean up in that area but yeah to go back to the gut stuff I've been I found out and this is from a previous episode that you guys did um your macro I think it was actually the macro masterclass where you have to figure out kind of what works for your body and I know for me if I load up on carbs like if I'm trying to do like you know super heavy lifts or whatever and I want to man does it pay now I have done seed I've been seeding now for probably three four months and I actually just started doing AG1 that on Hubertman's podcast so I've been doing that kind of at night just to get some of those greens in as well and that's helped I just I was curious to see especially listening to Dr. Cabral's podcast as well to see if that has to do with with any sort of like body fat loss or anything like that as well if like anything is off in that regard yeah I don't make it harder for you you're not going to assimilate to say you'll be a little more inflamed think about this too okay maybe we have that one day here and there off then you're in your deficit but sometimes you're in too much of a deficit in relation to how much stress you have in your life so even when you lose 3 to 5 pounds on the scale you lose a ratio of 50-50 you lose just as much muscle as you lose fat so the body fat percentage doesn't really change for you and you add in the fact that maybe I have some underlining gut issues that are going on and so that just compounds the stress issue so then my body should be building muscle it's not it's being prioritized to trying to heal and fix what's going on in my gut so it can literally be just a handful of these little things that are compounding enough to just keep you from getting to that next level because we got to keep in mind again you're in this kind of healthy place but also know what it's like to be here but want more I want to get to the next level what is it and it could be these these little things it's like when you cut you cut too much and it's too much stress and you're losing as much muscle as that when you when you over consume you way over consume and it's enough to cancel your deficit out you have underlining little gut issues that are going on and so you add that with having a kid and building a house and work life like and so then your body is not recovering the way it should so then when you're in a surplus and trying to build muscle it's not building it like it should and so you could have a whole bunch of little things that are just keeping you from breaking through that next that next level and that's really really what is your training look like these days like what are you doing for weight training yeah so I never guys I never got into like the bro splits like chest day and back day and all that kind of stuff I I pretty much started doing full body from day one so typically how I like to split it up is you know full body push on like day one where it's maybe more of an upper body focus that's where I'm hitting you know shoulder press bench press and maybe like some lunges and then next day would be full body pull kind of more of a leg focus from hitting my dead lifts but maybe I'm doing you know some pullovers or something as an accessory and then Wednesday is more of like a mobility honestly probably skip day and let my body recover Thursday is then my full body push again but maybe a little bit more leg heavy again where it squats and you know things of that nature and then you know some dumbbell work for the upper body and then Friday would be my full body pull upper where I'm doing my pull ups you know things of that nature so I feel like I'm hitting everything throughout the week but you know that's kind of another thing I got so desperate actually so I'm not trained anymore I'm in med sales now so my steps are non-existent anymore so that's kind of where I went from like that 3,000 to like maybe like a 2700 trying to aim for that every day but I got pretty desperate well I kind of got everybody else like when I talk to my clients it's like hey you know just come train with me I'll just tell you what to do you know it's that easy use right so one of my buddies I played football with he was a coach at a crossfit gym down the road so I'm like dude you guys are shredding I'm sending it screw it I did crossfit for like nine months and I tell you what that beat me up I have never been so sore and in pain my entire life so honestly needless to say you know ever since we you know got the house we moved I got my gym in there now or getting there I'll build it here soon and yeah I'll probably start doing you know my gym workouts again and maybe go in there for like a aerobic day I got a punch card or something so we'll do that I don't think your workouts are the issue I think the workouts are probably fine one of the things you said about eating carbs and how you pay for it with your gastro issues that's a yeah that's a sign of some dysbiosis I would definitely if I were you I would work with a functional medicine practitioner and treat the underlying root issue with your gut because seed is a really good probiotic that'll only help so much AG1 will only help so much but if there's a dysbiosis going on if there's an overgrowth that's happening they'll help they'll help with the symptoms but they often don't really solve the problem you might need to go on a SIBO protocol or something like that to kind of reset and then go and rebuild and repopulate the gut and heal the gut from that standpoint but I would work with a functional medicine practitioner Luke are you still training clients are you still training clients I got two clients I train in the morning yeah I've been training them for five six years I only ask because I didn't know how much you're still pursuing training people or if you ever have a desire to build or focus on that being a full-time career because there's a lot of value in going through Dr. Cabral's certification figure out your own stuff and then at the same time that's going to give you knowledge and then this type of stuff I think of corrective exercise and knowledge around gut like what you would get with Cabral probably has to be two of the most powerful things that a coach or a trainer could have in their tool belt to help clients suffer from those two things so worthwhile investment just from that perspective yeah I will say like my mobility and my corrective exercise part of things probably ain't the greatest I mean even with like full range of motion everything but I feel like CrossFit did a number on me my shoulders dude and my knees my back I've never had back issues and then all of a sudden I walk in and it's one rep max deadlift day and I'm like they're like oh what are you going to hit and I'm like I don't know 405 who knows they're like no you're going to go more than that ended up ripping 420 for 3 and yeah I couldn't feel my back for two weeks I honestly thought I had a bulge disc I'm not even kidding perfect form by the way boys if only somebody would if only there were signs if only there were yeah some warning from some podcast we just I would focus I would focus number one on the gut that's going to be the priority and then number two be very consistent like every seven days a week with your tracking but I'll be honest with you Luke I think you got to work on your gut stuff and just be look you're at 15-16% you're good you're good and honestly trying to cut with an underlying gut it's going to be a pain in the butt no pun intended it's going to be tough I'll do the gut health testing start with that it'll make the cut or the bulk or whatever you decide to do later a lot easier it's going to unlock a whole lot for you I'm going through that right now if you're not in our holistic health forum on Facebook you need to be in there because that's where we have Dr. Cabral on his team if you're in there now that's great it's free get in there get in there for sure because then you can ask questions and if you think you have SIBO I don't recommend this I think you should always test but if you think you do there's really effective over the counter ways of treating it it used to be done with just antibiotics but they've done a lot of studies now on natural antimicrobials and there's different formulas out there that are they've been shown in studies to be as effective as antibiotics I think they're more effective though because they also work on fungal any fungal overgrowth or anything like that whereas antibiotics can actually cause that to be worse but definitely get in that forum Luke do you guys think the macros are good to about 2700 that seems like it's your maintenance if that's where you're keeping it like I said what I would do if I were you is I would look at my gut address that then when I'm done with addressing that I would do a slow reverse diet really slow which will probably get you a little leaner working out well even on its own and then once I got up to let's say 32-3300 calories that's just where I tend to stop then I would do a cut from there I like that sweet yeah sounds good boys thank you thanks for calling in brother alright thanks for having me I appreciate it yeah with the with the gut being off it does make things for me yeah and when mine was so mine would get real off so I wasn't just talking like this guy well I think it's the law it's like off yeah it makes it it's like eight pounds of lean body mass for me at least well yeah just keep factoring the things I was saying like he could have like he when he does do his deficit that he says like 1000 calorie down he could be cutting too hard with the relative to the amount of training and stress that he has in his life so his body is not responding the way it should be from it the days that he does kind of fall off the wagon he over consumes calories enough maybe even under eats protein like what happened to me all the time and so then that's enough to cancel out his deficit add in the fact that he might be also battling some gut issues so then is just adding to that stress little bodies not recovering the way it should be not building muscle the way it should be and so he could literally be perfect in all these other things and have those three things off a little bit and that's enough to it's enough to you know keep him at this body fat range which is not a bad place to be athletic range I want to be very clear if you hit your protein targets avoid heavily processed foods and lift weights or do some kind of strength training nothing crazy but something consistently you're going to naturally fall in a nice healthy body fat percentage but you probably won't get shredded you're probably not going to have a six pack that's going to take all kinds of levers being perfect that takes tracking and that takes very very good consistency most people don't walk around doing the other things I just said and then get down to temper some people do but most people stress the the consistency thing just it's a slow ass process it's a very slow process to drop body fat dropping weight this is why the whole that whole thing is such a bad representation of like how it's like the biggest loser and she like 10 pounds and these people make these radical body transformations it's like that's such a terrible representation of what it should look like it's a very slow gradual process that takes a lot of consistency to get down to the end by the way as it doesn't get easier it gets harder the leaner you get you mess up just a little bit the less room for air you have you remember being when you're in single-digit body fat you have like one meal one day could mess up my body fat percentage that's what it's like people don't understand when you're hovering around four or five percent body fat a day one day of overeating and everything else perfection could put me up now to seven percent body fat how crazy well here's what here's the here's the math if you're two hundred pounds and you're at five percent body fat that means you have what what is that ten ten pounds of of body fat on your body is that what that is ten pounds go up a pound of body fat it's going to register in body fat percentage yeah it makes a big impact that's what I mean that's why it's like so as it gets as you get lower the this the discipline and the consistency just gets greater now what gets easier over time is one if you've built a lot of muscle the body responds gets it gets it back to when you've done this enough times where you've gotten down to that like you start to figure out like oh these are the levers I pull from my body because that's where we're all so unique like he may be missing on the stressing it could be a big thing for him it's like oh fuck you know what I was training too many days I scale back to three days a week I focused on more recovery stuff didn't do such a hard cut boom his body respond like he's you have to figure that out once you figure that out what gets easier is knowing what the answer is still takes that same consistency though totally look if you 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