 Good afternoon and welcome to the Global Report. I'm your host, Lily Ong. We have thus this morning the Minister of Defense for the largest military in Southeast Asia as well as one of the most powerful military in the world. Welcome to the show, Mr. Ria Miza Ria Kudu. Yeah. Yes. Thank you. It is very nice to see you and I'm very delighted today that I can meet my colleagues and especially the press from the United States of America. Thank you, Minister. Thank you for meeting time. Now before we start today, Minister, I would like to express my heartfelt condolence to the tragedy of Lion Air Flight 610. We would like to express our condolence to the incident of Lion Air about the JT-610 explosion. Thank you for the announcement of the incident. I would like to express my condolence to the victims of the explosion. We would like to pray that the victims of the explosion are safe and sound. Thank you so very much for kindly showing your empathy and sympathy, especially for the current incident of Lion Air JT-610. And we really wish all your support and your prayers, especially for the casualties and the victims of these aircraft incidents. Thank you, Minister. Now, Minister, I would like to talk about some of the counter-terrorism efforts that's been going on. I know that in 2002 with the Bali bombing, terrorism has catapulted to the top of the priority list for nations of the maritime nations in Southeast Asia, and it has remained there since. Yes. So we would like to talk about the counter-terrorism efforts for Indonesia and the region, as Mr. Ketohi said, since 2002, the Al-Qaeda attack in Bali has become the main priority in the development of terrorism in the region. However, we know that even before 2002, the countries have seen a need for closer collaboration when it comes to security matters. So we have the 1997 ASEAN Declaration on Transnational Crime. We had the 2001 ASEAN Declaration on Joint Action to Counterterrorism, and in 2007 we had the ASEAN Convention on Countering Terrorism. Now, looking back at all the counter-terrorism measures and instruments, would you share some of their features and their extent of success, please? We always invite friends, because the principle of our basic law is to ensure the world is safe. We have to be friends with all the enemies, or the enemies that I have told you about, the terrorists, and other enemies, the natural enemies, which are the real enemies. And this intervention requires a strong cooperation. It's good in the country, not only the poor and the poor, but the whole people have to follow and fight for this terrorism. Then, the country, because the terrorism is all over the country, we are also at the same level with all the countries. Indeed, it is very important to note that Indonesia will never consider any nation, especially in the region, as a threat. We never consider any threat coming from other countries. But the way we design our defense strategy is really based on the non-traditional threat, which is very factual and realistic, ranging from terrorism and natural disasters. Based on this factual and non-traditional threat, then it is like a foundation for us to cooperate among nations in this world. So it is imperative that among nations in the region, we have to stand together to fight this common enemy. And the common enemy, as the foundation of our cooperation, one of among others is the threat of terrorism. So it is very important that we have to have strong action and strong standpoint against this threat for humanity. Thank you, Minister. In fact, when the ASEAN Convention on Conjuring Terrorism came about, one of the biggest resistance obstacles were getting the member nations to see that terrorism is not just a local phenomenon, but a regional, a global phenomenon. Is that correct? Was that one of the challenges? So at the time of the ASEAN Convention on Conjuring Terrorism in 2004 and 2002, we still see how many ASEAN countries that are still resistant to the concept of terrorism are still the same. Can you really see that from the beginning? Yes, I hear that, but at that time, my position was not there yet. I was the head of the government, but what I know now is that this is all the same, there is no difference, one voice, one action, this is what it is now. Because we know, back then we were against the first generation of terrorism, the second was ISIS, that was the second generation, then after it was destroyed in the middle of the war, it returned to the country, we were against the third generation, which was the second generation of the war. This is the return, we must be more careful because they are already in the war and have been aware of the tactics and strategies to attack, to do terrorism. For that, we are all the same to face that, all the same. And all are equal. And indeed, when this ASEAN Convention on Content Terrorism was endorsed by nations in the region, unfortunately during that time, my capacity was still at the commander-in-chief of the Indonesian Army. But I heard about the situation, there is a kind of resistance among nations about how we define the threat of terrorism. In this regard, as maybe you may aware, there is like a kind of evolution of the threat. As maybe you may aware also that back to 2001, it is a threat of al-Qaeda at that time. And it is like the, I consider that the first generation of terrorism. And there is an evolution and evolving of threat, terrorist threat in this region. And the second generation turned up to be the threat of the announcement of ISIS in Syria and Iraq back 2014. And now, at this moment, we have the same common understanding about the threat of terrorism, which is the third generation of terrorism, the returning foreign fighter or the foreign militant to our region. So that's why it is becoming the foundation for every nation in this region to work together. And there is no more resistance related to this issue. Thank you, Minister. Now, you mentioned al-Qaeda, even at the height of al-Qaeda's interest in this region. Their main purpose was looking upon here as the base for operational planning, for funding. That seems to have changed today. They are looking at this more as an operational theater. Is that correct? So, Mr. President, you have said that the potential of the previous era is al-Qaeda. The previous generation wanted to develop a power here, including the basis of the operation and the money here. But now, al-Qaeda is looking at this area as the territory of the operation area. So, it's no longer a space. Do you see this as a new phenomenon? Yes, because Indonesia is not an Islamic country. But the Islamic population is 200 million from the 260 million population. Then, they are looking into Indonesia, including the Philippines. If that's true, the Philippines has a government to control the country. From here, they have become terrorists after returning from the Middle East. So, the conclusion is that the terrorists in Asia, especially in the Asian countries, have two major countries, Indonesia and the Philippines. Yes, indeed. I would like to also highlight that the nature of the population in this region, especially Indonesia. Indonesia is the world's largest Muslim country, including in this region. There is also a Muslim population in the southern of the Philippines. So, in this regard, it is naturally, fortunately, the kind of al-Qaeda will focus on Indonesia and the Philippines as the main hub of their collaboration. Not necessarily only the operational, but also the base as well as the fund. But with the nature of evolution, we can see there must be a kind of shifting, a kind of pattern, especially how to consider this region. With the nature of the population in Indonesia and the Philippines, we have the Muslim community. So, they will focus on different areas of operation and different patterns of operation, but all centralized also with the al-Qaeda from the stronghold in the Middle East. Thank you, Minister. Now, you mentioned the Philippines. Last year, something happened in the Philippines that seized everybody by surprise. And of course, I'm referring to the seashore of Marawi. I'm going to ask a very blunt question. Please forgive me. Did nobody see it coming? Or did somebody see it coming and not say anything or not say anything fast enough? So, it is related to what you have said. And there is also a very interesting thing. Last year, the incident happened in Marawi. I'm sorry to ask you. Has there ever been anyone who has given you the information about the attack of Marawi in the past? It must have happened. I haven't heard about it. But far from Marawi, I have considered it. They will go back to the Philippines. Why? There are a lot of Islamic groups there. Islamic terrorists are gathered there. It's safe. After going back to the Philippines, there must have been some mistakes. What happened in Marawi? Despite the fact that I've not been advised related to the potential of attacks or seeds of Marawi, but I make some predictions about the situation. Noting the nature of the southern Philippine area, they have like a secessionist, military secessionist as well as military rebellions with the motive of their try to establish like the part of the Philippines, but based on the Islamic ideology. Based on my prediction that about two years before Marawi, I have predicted that there must be some kind of escalation of situation in the southern Philippine and that's actually my prediction turns to be true with the incident of Marawi. Thank you, Minister. No, Minister, shortly after the siege, the siege went from May to October 2017. Shortly afterwards, you came up with OEI, otherwise known as the OIS Initiative, which derived its names from the 5-5 initiative comprising U.S., Canada, U.K., Australia and New Zealand. But this time with OEI, it comprised the six Southeast Asian nations of Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, Brunei and Philippines. Was it the secession of Marawi that prompted you to come up with this? So, after the incident of Marawi, from May to September last year, then you came up with the concept of OEI, which derived from the six countries after the incident of Marawi. Did the concept of OEI come out after Marawi? The concept of OEI came out after Marawi and the concept of 5-5 initiative came out after Marawi or was it the same as before? Yes. So, the first thing we did before the OEI was to do the same thing as before. First of all, the Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia. That was their goal. The result was good. Because almost every month, there were a lot of thugs. Then thugs, they were not allowed to escape. So, to find money, they had to protect people. The next two years, there was no more. And since then, I thought, we need intelligence. We need eyes and ears. Without a lot of eyes and ears, it will be difficult to get information or know for sure. For that, I made an idea for the OEI. I saw in the United States that there was 5-5. Here, there must be a lot of eyes and ears with the OEI. At first, there were 6 countries. At first, there were only 3 countries. But all of them are now supported. The United States, Australia and the European countries are supported. The OEI has no political power. But it's cheap to destroy the terrorists. So, all of them are supported. This is what made me grow. I have a lot of support. And more and more support. The sooner we know where to go, the sooner we can destroy the terrorists. Well, prior to the Marawi siege, between the 3 countries, we already came up with the trilateral cooperative arrangement. Among others is the joint maritime patrol in this area. We ended up following the air patrol in this area. And it proves to be very effective and very successful and fruitful. And we can see that the incidents of piracy for ransom were less, quite significantly after we conduct this trilateral engagement. Then the Marawi happens. Then based on this endeavor and followed with the Marawi siege, then I come up with, I make some consideration that we need a kind of ice and ear to support our operation, military operation. So it is very important that we have very reliable sources and information and intelligence. So based on this consideration and my thinking, then I come with the initiative of the our ice concept. The our ice, actually it is quite similar with the concept of the five ice conducted by the western country, led by the U.S. And I can see the importance of this concept of our ice. Then the initial announcement or obviously announcement or soft announcement of this our ice were at the time we involved like the six countries that directly involved with the security situation in this region, especially in the water. And after this concept has been submitted to the ASEAN member states and most of the ASEAN agreed with my concept that they would like to join because they understand the importance of cooperation and collaboration among nations to fight terrorism because they understand the definition of terrorism as the common enemy of the region. So after the ASEAN we conducted also the meeting of ASEAN plus nation and most ASEAN plus nation also support this idea including the American and also the European Union and also the Australia. So actually that's actually the evolution of our ice concept based on your enquiries. Thank you. Minister, so with regards to the OEI it seems that donations came together very quickly. How do we however get past beyond the superficiality that you know tends to flag softest Asia when it comes to collaboration on security matters? What are the processes that you are going through? How do you think that you are able to move forward in accordance with what you imagine? First of all, the support is the most important. Then we have formed here. Yesterday we came from ASEAN. Then we have reached what we have to do. The important thing is that all the data, all the information is here. And from here it can be spread to countries that need it. Or countries that don't need anything. What is important is to know about terrorism. Yes, it is important that the first phase that we should have is the will support. Especially the sincere intention from the nation to support this OEI. And after we get the support then there will be followed with the implementation of this concept. And the concrete step of this concept we already established like the OEI center here in the Ministry of Defence of Indonesia. And just recently we have a visit from representative of ASEAN to discuss about the way forward of this OEI concept. And we also already delivered how this mechanism of intelligence and information sharing supposed to be conducted. And maybe it is not some country doesn't require some intelligence information because they are not affected directly with the terrorism. But among nations that needs information we will prepare to share this information among nations in this region. So it will be kind of sharing like a big picture of the threat of terrorism. Now Minister, I know that Indonesia received a visit from Defence Secretary of United States General James Mattis earlier this year. How did the visit go? We know that Indonesia just received a visit from Defence Secretary Mattis earlier this year. How did the visit go, sir? I first received a visit from the United States of Indonesia. Actually it is good that there are some requirements. But the good thing is that there are many. Since I became Minister of Defence, I have been in a good relationship with the United States, especially in the matter of Defence, with the two previous Minister of Defence. Now what is being done by Mattis is increasing the number of visits. Especially between the Minister of Defence, especially between me and the Minister of Defence. Why is that? Maybe. We are the same. We are the same. We are the same. We are the same in the last year. So with the same, we work together. What is being done is very good. Until now. Allow me to reaffirm the strong bilateral relations, especially in the field of Defence between Indonesia and the U.S. This strong bilateral defence relation also happened before the visit of Secretary Mattis. We have a good communication and collaboration, despite the fact that we have an app and flow of this relation between these two nations. But after Secretary Mattis has been appointed as Secretary of Defence, our relation is getting stronger and more stronger compared to previously. Even I have also a very good engagement and collaboration with his predecessor. But now I would like to acknowledge that the relation between myself and Secretary Mattis has never been stronger. It has never been better, now the highest one. And I would like to say that we have some commonalities, especially myself with Secretary Mattis. We were born in the same year, back to the 1950s. And we are both like four star generals, and we are coming from the military background. So based on these commonalities, it is like the very strong base and underlying for establishing the more stronger defence relation. So that's why I would like to say that nowadays the defence relation between Indonesia is very strong and very close. That's really wonderful to hear. And US and Indonesia have definitely come a long way, especially from the 90s. Back in 1991 to 2005, I think there were some sanctions that was placed on Indonesia because of human rights issues with Indonesian special forces. But fast forward to today, how many annual bilateral military-to-military engagements are we seeing? I see a lot of commonalities that are much better between Indonesia and the US. Especially now, when we look back to the past, from 1991 to 2005, there were some sanctions from the US because of the harm factor and also related to special forces. But we see a lot of commonalities that are much better now. And then in this context, how many have been involved in the defence relation between the two countries and the meeting between the defence between the two countries over the past year? I met with the US Ministry of Defence. I met with the US twice and I met with the US in Singapore. Every time we talked about the defence, until now, we are talking about the private sector. For example, my son is also involved in the defence. He is a gemitist. He thinks that my son is his own son. So he is responsible for the defence of the US. That has already reached the private sector. So I think we have an extraordinary relationship between the Ministry of Defence and the defence between the two countries. Indeed, we have quite a frequent meeting and engagement, especially myself with Skotematis. This year itself, we already made a kind of six-time meeting with Skotematis and also not to mention the meeting between the two defence ministries. In this regard, my relationship with Skotematis has evolved from only the formal relation between the two defence ministries and the two nations. It has evolved into more personal relations and we have a very strong engagement. I would like to say that the six meetings that we had, among others, my visit to the US, including our meetings in Singapore and also my visit to the US for two times, including to Hawaii, for the handover of these Pacific Commanders. And now the relation is becoming more personal with him. I would like to highlight especially his sincere support during the difficult times, especially inflicting my family. Because of one of my sons, which is in the military, he had like a skydiving injury and incident that impacted his lumbar bones and Skotematis gave his emotional support too. Often he offered to my son to be treated in the US military hospital in Washington, DC. That's something that I feel so moved and so taught with his offer. That's something like one of the examples of how strong and how close my relationship with the... not only with Skotematis, including with the US and especially... I would like to emphasize the importance of this relation between these two countries. Thank you, Minister. I'm very sorry to hear about your son. We are also very sad to see this, but we are very proud of him. But I'm proud because Skotematis, the US, also helped me in that way. The relationship between these two countries started with the personal relationship. Personal relationship is good. It will automatically become the relationship between these two countries. Despite the fact that the incident that inflicting my son, but I'm very moved and very delighted with the support and the kind attention from the US, especially from Skotematis. I would like to emphasize that the good relationship starting from the personal relationship between these two officials, then it can evolve to a more stronger that can influence the relationship between countries. So that's very important that every good relationship has to be started with the kind and sincere will and support. But there is a difference between me and General Metis. We are not politicians. We are talking about the country's politics. The American politics and the Indonesian politics. So there is no practicality. This is what I'm talking about. If we talk about the country's politics, it means the relationship between countries. Yes. What I would like to reiterate, I'm very impressed and very happy with my relationship with Skotematis, especially during this stage. We are not both coming from politicians. We are not politicians. But both of us, we speak about the nation of the state's politics. So this state's politics will denote something like the relation between two countries. So it can have the influence, the relation between two countries. So it is very important that based on the personal and sincere relation between these two officials, that can impact of the political relation among nations. So everything has to be started from the relation and sincere relations first. That's something that I would like to highlight. We are talking because we are not politicians. We are not talking about politics. But we are talking about the personal and the country's problems. So there is no point in talking about it. One more I would like to emphasize that we are not politicians but we talk sincerely and openly and both on transparency and good friendship. So this good relation can impact and influence the relation among nations. So we are not talking about politics because we are not politics. But I would like to say that with this kind of sincere relation and communication, then it can influence the good relation between the two nations. That's something that I would like to convey the message. Thank you very much, Minister. I cannot agree more on the importance of personal relations and international relations, especially defence relations where trust is very much needed. May I ask, during your meetings with General Mattis, if the lifting of sanctions on kopasas was mentioned? I agree with what you have said. The personal relations between the two nations is a good relation. And trust is a good relation to increase the connection between the two nations. Yes, we also have a question. Is there a good connection with your father? Is there an American plan to lift the sanctions against kopasas? Yes, I have already said that we will lift the sanctions against kopasas and later we will discuss them together again. Yes, Sir Mattis also hints at this point about lifting the sanctions of kopasas special forces. Then we plan to conduct a military exercise between the special forces of Indonesia and the special forces of the US. That's one of the points that we discussed also. That's wonderful. Congratulations. Now, General, what is the international view or your views on America's posturing in this region? I see that they are framing great powers with China. Does the international sometimes feel that you are placed in a hotspot between a hotspot and a rock, having to choose and pick sites? Thank you, General. We are very proud to see the good relations between Indonesia and America. Regarding the concept of America in building the postures in this region, we see that America is building a strong defense posture in this region in dealing with the definition of the US plan. Is this also affecting the view of the father towards the cooperation between the US and the postures in the region where the US also sees the region as a region where the US has a lot of potential, including the situation in the Middle East. How do you see it? I think it's good that the Indo-Pacific is wider than the US, so that everyone, because they can navigate with the good in the sea or in the air, I support it, of course, in accordance with the international law. I think it's good. Now, with the idea that the more we go there, the more friends we have. That's what we support. I would like to say that Indonesia would like to welcome any strategy or the presence of the US, especially in this region, especially with the good will to support the stability and peace in this region. Yes, we understand the concept of the US that would like to broaden the concept of Pacific cooperation to Indo-Pacific, which is more inclusive to more nations in this region. Yes, we understand the concept of the US, then we would like to say that it is very important that we have to also respect the freedom of navigation as well as the overflight. So it is also very important. And the more we feel secure in this region, especially to pass the lucrative and very important sea lane, it is one of the basis of my acknowledgement and my position for our relation with the US. Thank you, Minister. And I think those of us watching could attest to United States courting Indonesia because they were embraced. General Mattis was embracing the name change of part of the South China Sea to North Natuna Seas, as well as referring to Indonesia several times as the global maritime fulcrum or the regional. Sir, I also see some of Mattis' views that support Indonesia as long as the concept of NATO is supported. And then Indonesia as a world maritime port. So we see the concept of the US in the relationship with Indonesia. They are very supportive of the concept of Indonesia. I think it is the same. President Jokowi, Indonesia is the port of the world maritime team. Then he went out into the sea, he made a call-out, so he raised the maritime team. With the Indo-Pacific, with the port of the world maritime team, it has already combined. The concept of the US, it is in line with the concept of our administration at the moment, especially under the President Jokowi, that we are focusing on establishing our maritime fulcrum or the so-called the maritime axis, especially Indonesia. And it is in line with the concept of Indo-Pacific. It is also in adherence with our concept of maritime fulcrum where our President Jokowi also established our more engagement in the maritime area, including to develop the sea toll. And also we would like to expand our role in this maritime area. So that's why there is no some differences between the concept of the US and the concept of Indonesia. So I add that the Indo-Pacific must be taken care of because every year there are 5 to 8 trillion US dollars in the amount of money that goes through here, not yet like the world goes through here. If it goes through, then the economy will also go through. I would like to add one more thing. It is important that we have to maintain and foster security and safety and peace in this area because this area is very lucrative and very important sea lane. There are only 5 to 8 trillion US dollars will pass through the sea lane. Not to mention that it is also the one-third of all transport will pass through the sea lane. So it is very important that we have to collaborate to ensure the security and the safety of our common maritime sea lane. Thank you so much Minister. I wish we have more time. I know you have a very tight schedule and you have to go. I just want to express my gratitude for you taking time out of your busy schedule to share your input with us today. Thank you so much Minister. We would like to ask you a lot of questions, but we know that you are very busy. Thank you very much. I would also like to thank you for coming so far. The opportunity that we have to discuss is useful for humans, especially our crew. So allow me to extend my gratitude for kindly coming to visit me and to have the interview today. I am very happy to have this. And I really hope that these two productive relations between the United States can be fruitful and productive not only for Indonesia and the region, but also for all humanity. Thank you. Thank you so much Minister. I wish you continued success in your relationship with the United States as well. Thank you sir. Thank you very much. You are welcome. Thank you.