 Good morning. Welcome to the telecom exchange CEO roundtables Both for our guests here at telecom exchange New York City and for our viewers joining us on demand on RCR TV and JSA TV Our first panel is on a great timely topic IOT myths and realities the future is now Panelists include Jonathan Martone the director of co-location and engineering at six terror technologies James Nesfield the CTO of chirp to Mara Budeck vice president of services of digital realty David Erickson founder and CEO of free conference call comm and carrier X and Nancy Green right in the middle there global healthcare business development and strategy executive leader of Verizon This all-star panel is moderated by a dear friend of mine. Mr. Rob Powell He's the editor and creator of one of our finest industries blogs telecom ramblings personally Hand to God I read his blog every morning with a big cup of coffee addicted to telecom ramblings and if you haven't checked it out yet I I definitely recommend it It's telecom ramblings.com his analysis his maps his Q&A's with top-sea levels and more is truly a great resource for our industry and Rob's telecom love and expertise is evident throughout Little-known details about Rob time to make you blush Prior to blogging he spent 10 years as a software engineer at Bentley systems He has a masters in chemical engineering from Princeton All the way from across the river, New Jersey my friend, please welcome mr. Rob Powell. Thank you, Jamie Telecom ramblings have been around for nine years now, and I've known Jamie since the first one so it's been a long been a long trip So the internet of things It's it's mentioned in every PR about every product today to justify just about everything And so what I was hoping we were gonna be able to do today is to talk about what it really is to us in the industry What types of products and things are out there and what types of things? People are really doing Okay What can we really expect and when can we expect it to really actually see this kind of stuff? And I don't think I've had five people on a panel So this is gonna be interesting. This is the the most well populated one. I've tried to to moderate But I'd like to go through each each of you and get an idea of what where you're coming from an internet of things and what your perspective is and We'll go from there Jonathan first you sure So from my perspective the internet of things is here now right everybody's using some sort of wireless device Utilities are using smart meters. So all these all these devices are here now, and it's only growing. I think by 2020 will be 8.4 billion or something like that. So from from a IOT standpoint, it's here And it's important that the IOT providers Put their gear their infrastructure in a hardened data facility that has Multiple carriers to mitigate single points of failure and also security features I think we're going to talk about security later, but security Interconnectivity are the two most important elements for IOT Sustainability today from my perspective Great James, where are you coming from? Sure. So We produce technology that's about device to send data using just sound and within that space we think when we approach IOT that Lot of focus needs to be put on the kind of last three feet the edge the bits where the IOT actually the things live because the rest is basically just the internet, right? and And also, I think simplicity is going to be be becoming increasingly important as these as these network systems become Hyper exponentially more more complex Hey, Nancy Sure, I come from a different lens So I lead the healthcare vertical practice at Verizon, but I have a background in the space across all the verticals So I look at it from a use case piece not a true technology space So I'm going to share a lot about what Verizon does and how we do it across the industries So what we look at is I think I agree to agree the simplicity as we look towards Our enterprise clients are most the clients that we work with are looking for custom every time But they want it easy, which is always kind of a hard balance to do and That whole internet thing plus the edge they focus a lot on the edge not really the the whole process So that's where we come from is to help them through that process. Hi tomorrow. Sure With digital reality and from you know my view I could just say that the the internet of things with its context sensitive things at the edge of Networks in my view is an abler of transformation of our everyday environment into a digital society And when the device can discern itself digitally, it's more than just a device so I see that the The robust in interconnected network that is being built to the vast number of devices is just an enable of transformation I think also There is another transformation that is taking place as well where Internet of Things has a key play its transformation of the IT from being a cost center to Becoming a revenue generator by the data that is getting developed and collected from the devices and analyzed and pushed out The data itself becomes a strategic asset And value of IT It's that much better. So it's just you know combination of the transformation of the society On the social side as well as on the technology side And David I'm Dave Erickson with with carrier X for Application provider one of our most popular applications of free conference call comm In developing that we've developed global infrastructure And we're currently starting native wireless which where we have Towers on native American Indian reservations and rural areas We're looking to in the medium-range wireless machine to machine serve the niche areas Thanks I'd like to start off with what what what types of technologies and applications are you are each of you either actually seeing implemented or used today or what Verticals or what what customers types are seeking to do things with your technology depending on where you're coming from from the data center side What are you seeing other people do in the in the space specifically and from the use use case side and the technology side? Let's you want me to start sure so For us is pretty agnostic to industry. So all the way from you know the media World tracking assets. There's a lot of supply chain that's going on and tracking assets of where they are and what they're doing The media companies are tracking high high dollar cameras Throughout their network. The food industry is tracking You know, we have an application where we're tracking oysters all the way from the weights. It's called catch-to-table And then in healthcare, there's a lot around pharma. It's a 300 billion dollar business. That's being Unfortunately being stolen or diverted And so they want to be able to track that globally plus or some laws that just came through So there's some other laws about food as well So the tracking in the supply chain being able to know what the temperature is on anything So that's cross any industry so temperature where it's going is has a cross boundaries to offenses that kind of stuff The important piece of that is not what's happening It's the information and where it's going to I think to your point that the data from it in the analytics is really the power of it The asset itself they're getting smaller and smaller and smaller and less expensive So it really starts to become agnostic and kind of permeates throughout most verticals that we have James in terms of chirp and yeah, maybe one example, which is a bit Unusual we've recently done a project with a nuclear power station in England and they were Well, they want to tell me it's heat temperature Yeah, well, we're doing a number of readings and I'm pleased to report. They're all nominal good But that was an interesting one because they they they've got pieces of equipment in there in their nuclear site Which are decades old and in fact some of them like cannot be replaced there's just The parts even if the parts existed Under regulations that they cannot replace these these parts without shutting down the site and it's heavily restricted environment And they can't use Mutual for Wi-Fi the first thing you do when you go into the site is give up your mobile phone So they were interested in using our technology Just send readings to a data logger just using sound in these RF restricted environments I think it's it's that's an interesting case where Where they've got a unique set of circumstances there kind of they've got infrastructure, which is aging There's just lots of legacy devices And and they still want to join this IOT revolution And it's good to think sometimes I think about the fact that this IOT revolution is Not necessarily needed to be driven or just for the latest devices the latest hardware There's there's a lot of legacy systems that we can help our technology amongst many others to Bring up to date. It's not just about the kind of Latest gadgets and latest infrastructure fast-moving companies Interesting I can't just add from the data center solution provider to you The verticals you ask about the verticals definitely healthcare energy comes to mind But the more important exactly a more importantly I think that the customers come to us they see data center as a data centers as a data aggregation point And we see more and more of customers having multi-site footprints With compute getting more and more pushed out to the edge You're starting to see some change although the addressable market is getting bigger You see some change in the dynamics on between the core markets tier one tier two tier three markets You know, Internet of Things is kind of low-margin A technology that is looking for cost efficiencies So it's driving a let's say shift of how these tier markets are kind of playing themselves out And the computer at the edge may be pushing a little bit of a Downside pressure on the growth of the core markets and pushing them more towards tier two tier three markets So generally speaking, I would say that the regional markets are getting more and more competitive You know single-nation markets definitely the most competitive ones Obviously when we think globally You know the global footprint is the least competitive So this is kind of see how you know a cost piece play itself out into where the technology Sees itself deployed and and and kind of see the growth Yeah, I would agree with that so from from my perspective from six tears standpoint we run global data son operations, but The the government the federal government state government Utilities are really pushing their compute into a hardened data facility at the edge to minimize latency reduce costs and then get multiple nsp's For connectivity to mitigate single points of failure. So smart meters for example Utilities are moving all smart meter compute into our facilities. So They can they can save a lot of money on power space Network services and then have direct connections to closures providers CDNs And they're all on the network. So if there's any sort of outage customers can still read their meters Seamlessly from their iPhone So that's that's kind of the trim we're seeing it's same in the federal and state governments They're moving their compute into the the data center to mitigate Their their own issues government state governments don't do a good job with Managing data centers. They're outsourcing that locally David, what are you seeing in the wild out there? So I was just in Iowa yesterday and You know, we're seeing things with cattle monitoring of cattle You know where they're able to get More resources out of a cow, I guess you would say it over time by monitoring in it farming and Energy one of the cool things I've seen is there's a lot of things and Energy that is still You know guy goes out and checks tanks because it's so remote and because there's not the communication out there or the connectivity But a simple Sims card and a cap, you know with a reader Does amazing things it also brings a lot of safety and so the areas We're trying to look towards are the areas that the efficiency is so great or the The beneficial and safety is so great that You know the cost of my new to actually get it get it done But we're looking at those remote areas that have difficulty with connectivity Agriculture is the big one. We have a I still haven't visited it. It's a Winery That that we've outfitted their entire Great fields for water. So it's it's a combination of how much soil water Water the soil needs one front-side And then to know when to turn the water on and so it's very interesting that what technology can can do for just certain things that make it a Perfect in this case perfect grape or a perfect Agriculture field is really interesting. Does that this so need to be Is that all on the edge? Yeah. Yeah The the piece of course, it's gonna go up 4g on wireless Goes up to us and they're they're cloud. We're hosting their cloud, but they're Soon to be 5g To follow up on all these technologies is Is this delivering on the promise of Internet of Things is this what we expected is is is, you know What is the reality of the state of all this now? Is this in at a very early stage where we're gonna see a lot more or is this what we're what we should be expecting as a Lot of different little implementations like this. Oh I don't know. I can give a view on that. I think that Internet of Things is obviously evolving. It suffers presently suffers mainly from platform disintegration and a lack of technical standardization that in turns makes integration on Plot hardware or Hardware platforms and variety of software that may be running on top of them harder We obviously in a cycle of high innovation Is a disruptive environment? I think the most if innovation is happening is at the interface of the software and hardware with them, you know, the greatest Advances we are making is in software Innovation, so I think you know some of these issues such as the technical lack of technical standards and different technologies mesh together We'll solve the subs over time. It's just a matter of Going through the cycles. Yeah, I would add there is a technical brand I think everyone the there's no lack of ideas of what could be monitored and why And to me I see that as an opportunity for a lot of us to provide the Enablement of putting them all together to create the service and that's what we find we're doing a lot of they want to do this But it takes too much of that and they're they're not quite sure how to put it all together So to us that's an opportunity David well, I was you know building my first voice video in data call center in 1995 and found myself a little bit ahead of the curve and video And I think that that you know looking too far into the you know What it's going to provide rather than just looking at what's right in front of us? What can be done right now? What makes the differences right now? I mean I believe in doing things for the greater good But you know you're not much good if you can't turn a profit and Make money in it right now and so we always focus on the now But I think it's going to probably take a little longer to get the you know the ultimate of Internet of Things Then then people expect it just putting the proper infrastructure out dealing with the security issues and things Sometimes take a little longer, but I think that the momentum is is gaining and that's that's the key right? There's plenty of money to be made Jonathan yeah, I would agree with that. I think two big problems right now with iot So in NFL cities, we don't have any issues right from a from a network perspective. We have dark fiber We have lit fiber. We have 4g. We have 5g is coming The ubiquity across the country though is pretty there's a lot of rural areas that have lack of bandwidth, right? You know Verizon and AT&T and century link are trying to roll out DSL So there's a there's a kind of a network element issue in rural America So it's going to take a little bit longer you can use use net, but you have some latency issues So there's some of those concerns the other issue is security So half of every iot firm has been breached which has resulted in a 13% revenue decline So iot firms have to leverage secure services to mitigate those those issues So those are the two two big gaps I see today From my perspective James Yeah, I agree with what's what's been said. I think it's to your statements. It's important that there's there's a Viable value adds for existing Solutions that are going in just to do one thing really well with its tracking wine oysters and Providing an ROI just doing that That's how we get the infrastructure in and then and then what I'm excited about and it will take standardization which has already been mentioned, but That's that's the kind of easy on ramp to get us to a place where the infrastructure is there the hardware is They're the standards are there and then what I'm most excited about is the application of Machine learning into that space to draw out the emerging Behaviors that underlying some of this data. I think we're still a while away from that And I'm glad that it seems like a kind of logical step towards that that Space but that's what excites me longer term Hey, I would just have two additional comments at the security piece. I think It's not just at the edge or the device. It's also You know that the platform itself and then the network all the way through to make sure so it's really the security issue is a big problem that needs to be looked at in each area and then I Completely agree with you what you want to do something that they can make money now or is right sitting right there What but we're also seeing it in the industry is the ability to say, you know, I put this tracking Device on whatever I'm doing, but I noticed that I have a whole lot of downtime on it And so this whole share platform or share opportunity has come come to fruition You can use my wood chipper or my tractor or my because I know the down times of it And I can track where you have and I can track different things So it's created another opportunity for a lot of the customer base to that now I know what my asset is or what's happening in whatever it is And be able to share that with within their industry or within people or the community Several of you have touched on on security. So let's jump quickly to that to that in more detail How advanced is security for the Internet of Things and how seriously do we need to take the the potential risks in there? I Think with the vast number of devices Interconnected the the attack surface is getting bigger Therefore the protection is getting more complex And it's ever-evolving tasks. So from from what I see, you know, there's plenty of talent out there But I still think there is a lack of True types of talent that is needed to solve some of these complex situations. So I think we are in a shortage of Professionals out there that can be plugged in into these complex scenarios On the on the other hand, I think that you know security services either as a managed service It is kind of outdated If you think of it in terms of the fixed annuals contracts with such and such a provider That usually doesn't give you the full, you know, you know stack protection that it's kind of looks good on paper But in reality it has falses and problems I think you know the whole model of you know annuals contracts with either third-party service providers who protect you needs to be visited and more moved towards like service as security as a service type of Approach just because it's so much Inplex and so much changing that it's hard to pinpoint a standard and then Address it. It's just keep on evolving Jonathan well, yeah, and security security is an investment, right? So these firms that did invest in security services actually Weren't affected right by by by these breaches. So I think it was a I have a stat here That 65% of Firms that invested in security Across their IOT didn't have an issue. So While it costs a little bit more short-term long-term it pays huge dividends, right? You don't have downtime. You don't have DDoS attacks. You're not losing your eyeballs You're not losing your business your continuity is up. So it's up to the IOT providers Hopefully they go into a hardened data facility to mitigate points of failure from a network perspective But also on the security side They need to invest in in security services And it's low margin a lot of this IOT stuff is low margin But but it's at least for the for the wireless providers. It's a it's a new net new revenue for their declining Use Wireless use revenue. So Let's I think it's also about the awareness of the risks out there. So these Devices or things they usually get installed and left alone After a very simple setup Default passwords are rarely changed From where may or may not be existing on a device and would or would not be upgraded or refreshed So you have this vast exposure that We have seen incidents. We have seen recently what was there like a DDoS attack that Took advantage of the IP cameras and kind of fell back on itself Just look at the amount of these devices that are out there just tells you that the risk We have to be very much aware of the risk and pretty much looking at these installed bays as your exposure I Think that You know the the guys that fraud networks and things and hack things Are amazing minds and they're very creative and there's no way to to You know wade into the pool of IOT and come out with the security solutions and in advance of You know the blocking and tackling of getting it moving and we're going to see more We're going to see things that we never even dreamed of before and what they do with all of this You know you start talking about you know 20 30 billion devices out there with with some form of connectivity to You know things that have Value and information Assets that's that's a treasure trove and it's going to be attacked and it's going to be continually attacked And it's going to be attacked from this point forward and and I think that it's all about diligence It's all about the information looking at the information, but it's going to be an ongoing thing but that's That's that's what this is about security They're going to create new ways to break in and we're going to find ways to shut it down and being diligent and being On top of that network is going to be the key In terms of the technology James in terms of building things that work on this. How do you approach security? so we kind of Approaching quite a holistic way because because our technology is broadcasted to the Open air we actually think that is some interesting applications of our technology where The fact that it's audible. I mean just just to say the obvious the fact that you can hear when data is being transmitted And these machines aren't talking behind your back so to speak for for certain type of Privacy or security situations, it's really useful to know if a device is talking to a network, right? and So in certain applications that our technology works well when you well if it's if it's talking to the network I'll be able to hear it. I can keep an eye on it and there's no There's no kind of talking behind my back It's almost like you have to start to regulate it and I think we are starting to see that I think the national Aviation organization something like that. They are regulating drones So you have to comply with the regulatory requirements if you want to fly drones The same is in in the self-driving vehicles that industry is also getting regulated. I think it's just the beginning I think it's going to be more And I think it's probably the right direction Yeah Nancy in terms of the healthcare side of things is that also security a big issue? Well, yes And again every industry has a security and regulations and Requirements that they have to go by health care has Protected health information most of the IOT Applications in health care are not around patient health information. It's around moving Assets globally and into a facility and tracking them for ROI for operational pieces. They're not they're sending like for remote patient monitoring They're sending on encrypted devices You know, excuse me the blood pressure, but it's not attached to Nancy green Until it gets into the platform and then it's then it's undone. So It's a it's an issue across the board. I don't know about regulation. That's just Because we're over-regulated in my opinion All right Shifting topics What kind of services and infrastructure are required to keep up with the ongoing rollout of it of IOT stuff? and What are the how does it how do people? Implementing IOT by technologies from infrastructure providers, etc. differently than other fire or other buyers currently Jonathan Well again sound like a broken record, but hardened data facility Interconnectivity multiple carries to mitigate single points of failure the ability to connect via dark fiber and lit fiber to Their corporates facility putting all their mission critical IOT eyeballs in that data center to mitigate Failure is really is really the is really the pitch It saves the money in the long haul On on network services aren't any local loops single mode fiber cross-connects from their their compute to the NSPs They have direct connect reduces latency and those those data centers The six data centers for example sit in NFL City, so these government entities can still have Sub one two millisecond round trip performance, so they can run active active replication As well, so that's kind of the that's kind of the That's kind of what IOT firms are doing utilities and government health care Again, it's we go back to I don't want to security again, but it's it's we have to make sure that these IOT Users are using the best new security services six stair has a new STP platform. That's completely different from kind of the Standard security services out there to 56 a its encryption has to be used a lot of these Wireless providers use 128 and that's been breached. They've had DDoS attacks. They've been they've had issues So there has to be an investment in the the network as well as a security on top of it Tomorrow. Oh, yeah, I agree. It's it's really about investing in infrastructure If you think of it just in the context of internal for things if you don't pay attention to infrastructure unless or until your services down When you're down, then you start scratching your head. You see what went wrong and today in spite of all this You know the advancements how far we got we still can have a very large You know Issues or failures in the network infrastructure So I think it's all about the uptime. It's all about the ability to resiliency One of the examples I think just it was quite a few weeks years back Where it was a business dispute between appearing Providers or clearing entities such as cogent and sprint. I think they would have this business dispute and they held up 3,500 networks Essentially partitioned the internet and you can see that these can still happen So investing in infrastructure finding those resiliency models and how you can, you know, survive attacks. I think it's the key David You know my my thought is and you know looking at medium range Our Networks the way the the networks are advertised it you know when they say they they cover 90% of the country they they cover 90% of the population And there's a huge area if you start looking at devices Devices are populated in other areas than than people like that's that's one of the reasons behind The whole idea of the devices out there So taking that network and looking at redoing the population thing and trying to get to 90% coverage of the device population is What what I think needs to happen and and in order for there to be a seamless thing happening within the country It's got to be spread just like we did across 90% of the human population I think The reason is 90% of the population is because they're the ones traditionally carrying phones as the business model starts to change To there's devices out there and there's technology and there's revenue sources. I think they start to see that change I think when what we have found when we talk to enterprise clients is that They're Initially not real worried about the security of the network. They kind of think that we have it if they're coming over us They're more worried about how do I do this and I have art I like this piece of the the value chain and I like that and I like that and how do I put it all together And that's where you get into what's the security of each piece of the chain And then how do I buy it as a service rather than invest in infrastructure as a customer? They want it as a service and so the challenges have been that they want to customize every single one of them And you know 90% of it's not really custom. It's just their particular application So and they want and what we found is as much automation as you can put into the process That easier the security layer is the less touches and movement of the of the data the better side of the business that that happens but Network capacity is a big one. Hey James. Yeah, I'll take a little bit of a different perspective because obviously our technology lives exclusively at the The edge enough as a as I mentioned Earlier we're we're adjusted when it comes to infrastructure in taking advantage of existing hardware that's that's that's out there and so so For example, I'm talking to you over PA system and with our technology It's well, it's it's audio. I could I could Hold up my mobile phone and send you all some data Using the existing hardware in the room. Obviously. This wasn't designed To transmit data over sound but with our technology we can take advantage of Stuff in the world that is already capable of sending and receiving audio can now send and receive data so so yeah the infrastructure plays a little bit different for us, but We think that's really exciting because there's already billions of devices out there Which are compatible with our technology and can now send and receive data Are there things that the industry Doesn't provide that you wish they did or ways that they would could package Infrastructure better to help you do what you do. Yeah, I've got a very long list. Yeah Hit the top highlighter to Yeah, I mean Audio typically hasn't hasn't been taken as seriously as as Visually know there's lots of investments in screens It is catching up now with with I don't get too off topic, but it's catching up with with audio in VR now, but Commodity hardware like like you find in our iPhone is typically good enough for us. Not too many complaints For any of the rest of you are there things that IOT providers are asking for that? You can't give them yet that you wish you could give them From my angle is total cost of ownership always looking for a bottom line. So if you can kind of You know in public cloud is still still expensive No matter how much is out there. It's still expensive. So I think it's always When you go to a provider, you're always looking in your head, you know, how can I save money? You know, he talks about a making money and whatever comes, you know, thinks about the service provider How can I get the best deal? So it's total cost of ownership very much Total cost of ownership and we get their moment of your solution. So for instance, it's not just the devices and the software It's where it goes where they get aggregators full stack You know from device to the application and the business analytics where all of that sits and and and how you get the maximum Return on your investment So when you go to when you go talking about data aggregation points data centers, you're obviously looking at You know, where is your best value? In terms of which markets you go to where is the you know, the rates and the most attractive Automation is a key to it to get to reaching lower total cost of ownership I mean from a from a data center perspective of the the network service providers have done a fantastic job building out metro fiber Dark fiber 100 giga WS terabit, etc. It's the roll areas that are that are challenged So while we can provide the IOT Power and space and cool it 35 40 kilowatts per cabinet It's those rural areas that that are still having challenges again. It goes back to investing in the rural America I know there's a calf fund out there That's a federally subsidized fund that Sentry link and AT&T in Verizon are taking advantage of to try and And provide more fiber in the rural areas, but that's that's the that's the biggest challenge if somebody can figure that out They're gonna do really well. There's no ubiquity Across and I know it's 10% of the population, but it's still still a good chunk And I think small-cell technology To some of those challenges, you know with self-organizing networks to take advantage of interferences between the small-cells I think that's where is that last stretch extension of first you have a fiber of the cable Then you have a short wireless runs and then you have these self-organizing networks around the small-cells technology I think that's definitely gonna enable reaching to remote areas fill in a few gaps. Yes, David Yeah, you know, I think the the thing we're looking for is more more apps that apply to people that are looking for savings or safety or You know some some some value to them and you know like in in the now I think there's a lot of hype around things that are really groovy Technologies And and I want to see those continue, you know for the for the good of everything, but I think that We as a group got to really, you know get concerned with What we can do right right now in applications that bring these savings things that get the consumer to buy And so I think there's a lot of excitement here But we need to build more excitement in the consumer saying you know what I need to manage my farm that way I need to do this. I need to do that and and you know, I'd a higher take rate on the internet of things We've got five or ten minutes left. I'd wonder if there's any questions from the audience It was very interesting some of the comments made on how to make for where the money is and you described the value chain that broadly speaking is The devices the network the data collection management and the analytics Where's the money to be made from an outsider looking at that value? We heard it was mention of low margins on the one side the technology side Networks are certainly challenged in terms of the economics Is is data and analytics where the money is going to be made is is this going to turn out like? OTT has where they're making the money off of the networks any perspectives I Do we want to tackle that one? Where's the money? Yeah, I think you're right the money's in the analytics right because the the the the the network it's expensive right to Invest in and to upgrade and you know cable providers are having a tough time competing with With other providers out there, so I think it's the analytics. I think it's like the like the Amazon Alexa's right that sit there in your house and they're Studying you and they're they're getting analytics and they're going to start selling to you right so those types of additional value Answer is going to be where the margins going to be made I Would take it probably a little bit more Where we've seen the struggle which is the integrators is to be able to value it all and The data from that thing that's sending information that data belongs to the customer Or the person you're putting it in you don't normally own the data as a provider So it's very hard to resell that that product for any length what you're trying to do is actually do the analytics and help them So I call it the secret sauce There's a lot of people doing a lot of different things how you analyze the data and provide that information for your customer to do What they're trying to do is really I think we're The uniqueness is in the marketplace Yeah, I agree. It's data is definitely strategic asset and Probably that's where the most of the profits can be made but There is also services. It's just simple, you know monitoring data collection Services that that's the piece that's also can be monetized leveraging the the infrastructure I Think the money's in and subscriptions to connectivity because that's what I'm in And and I think the the the more it's a niche the better. I think that Looking at the areas that it can Do incredible things but have you know really bad connectivity or no connectivity? Pine Ridge The the Agua la Sioux That reservation is like 4.2 million acres or something. That's a lot of land and there's like zero connectivity out there I'm a few towers that all changes What can be done with that? You know amazing things So I think it's in in that connectivity the subscriptions There's not a whole lot of data moved in some applications and a lot more data moved than others That's why we look at the subscriptions Is there room for the next take killer app or killer technology James that kind of thing Yeah, I think I think Everyone's right about it being about us really trying to encourage the market to Take some of this excitement that that's a we feel within the industry I think as soon as we start better demonstrating that The the money the killer app that won't be a problem. I think it's it's demonstrating the return first Any additional questions from the audience I assume the end user business case of the enterprises using it are owning it Are you seeing early adopters be ones that are experimenting and know they lose money early on or? Are you seeing it accelerate? What's the adoption rate you guys are saying? I can take it first if you want to Depends for us it depends on the vertical Smart cities smart grid that went out first and you know was was all over the place healthcare conditionally. It's very laggers but what pushed that was a regulation around the drug industry and that pushed it hard, so all the way from from a Manufacturer all the way eventually they'll get to the to you and the pill so those regulations really pushed IOT in that space other ones are They're dabbling in it to see what the ROI is for us It's really an ROI or what we see is the customers are wanting an ROI before they roll it out everywhere So they'll pick niche use cases You had any other changes We've always had a multi prong attack and and you know going into the medium-range connectivity with with you know the machine-to-machine type stuff We've done it by going with networks that we already have kind of a foothold in areas and Expanding that and so that that cuts the cost quite a bit and and hopefully gets us to Nice profits quickly but we have other things in those same areas where we're delivering applications in those same same rural communities that are kind of the The catalyst or sort of launching pad for our new endeavors into It's proof points I guess I would add it's proof points and we had one pharma that did a pilot a pilot of just one pallet that went from that their manufacturing site across and was diverted As it got to the US and we found it because we tracked it and that was the savings of like 300 million dollars So they rolled it out immediately, right? But if we had tracked it then we may have had a couple more pallets before something happened So sometimes it's just that proof point that they know that they're losing it They know what's happening or they know that they have to share the state or get access to it And then it's worth the cost for them the nuclear project that I mentioned earlier They were interested in us to connecting devices which weren't otherwise connected to mitigate the risk of unplanned downtime and If they have an unplanned outage they've got a figure Which I know but can't say of which which is against how much it cost if the station has to go down for a day right and if they can if they can connect devices to the cloud and monitor them to prevent this unplanned downtime and then they know that they know what it's going to fail They can watch the operation and they can they can take action before that part fails Do that in one one nuclear site and then roll the tout across their nuclear sites all around you So sometimes it doesn't the kind of doesn't need to be that that complicates sometimes it is quite black and white And you can say what if we do this Here's the numbers it's pretty clear and on the question on the adoption I don't know I will be curious to see what people think in this room whether the cloud is considered at emerging technology or mature technology I see Internet of Things as still emerging technology So it's just that where I think it's in its in its evolution path And it's actually says he's challenging it has the startups It has all this you know full stack to the enterprise level solutions as well as the small startups Last question from over here How much It's a great question anybody want to try it so so you know Our goal is is is to float the boat with what we can do today, which is you know kind of Some of the stuff networks we build have been very accustomed to like a regional area We talked a little bit. I didn't didn't weigh in about you know the future of like the killer app I wholeheartedly a hundred and ten percent believe that that app is coming and that we don't even know what it is yet I think that there's going to be lots lots of apps I think you've you know if you're really interested in this if you're like carrier X we're a self-funding organization So we've never taken any institutional money or debt and and we look to like Get into this in a way that we can go and do something that's very valuable today But that opens us to a wide range of opportunities in the future that you know some of we haven't put our finger on yet And some of it will look to press in on and you know may have to have to back out That's just kind of the nature of this. I think there's you know very intelligent people that can paint us a beautiful vision of What's going to happen here? I don't buy into all of it. I mean I like it. I want to read it I want to understand their their their smart thinking But I think that if you press in and you do things that you can make money with today You will you will find an opportunity in this this marketplace So I think virtualization or a soft to define networks. I think that's probably an answer to what is you know kind of Asking killer app. It's it's definitely a you know an area that that's driving the The over subscription rates possible to be resolved like at that level when you've been a selling capacity and you know It's dynamic and it's it's managed by you know softer if you would I think it's definitely a Help in trying to get a handle on the track So so the good news is that bandwidth is is pretty much infinite, right? So it's fiber and then it's electronics on top of it. So NSP is like level three and Verizon and Zeo and Century linker are Upgrading their backbone right used to be 10 gigs and now it's a hundred gigs and it's gonna be 400 gigs And then it's a terabit so the bandwidth is gonna be there. So that's the good news. It's it's the it's the it's the actual Power in space of the data right the human genome the AI the driverless cars this stuff is gonna This stuff is gonna take up a lot of power in space. So it's it's The bandwidth is not the problem at least at least in the metro areas right in the NFL cities you're gonna be in good shape Anybody else I'm gonna disagree that bandwidth is the problem It is an issue and I think and I talk about this a lot when you innovate at the core Which is network how you're doing things how you're moving data how you're storing it You can innovate at the edge easier, right? So the edge seems to drive all the apps and all the fun stuff But if your core technologies as a carrier as an enterprise Those technologies haven't been innovated around SDN or whatever to be able to really be agile in that world You're gonna have Some more problems as you expand out into into the business To answer your question. I know that there's people in Verizon that do that I have no idea how they do it But that's why we keep continuing to innovate at that network core Around how to move the data if whether it's on our wireless networks or whether it's on our wire line networks Whatever network you're on and those even in the file's business. They they have to look at what's the movement Of data and where we're going with that. Yeah, that's that that's the the electronics we were talking about That's what Verizon is doing. So it's the core It's usually an infinite error or could be a sienna box But they're they're constantly upgrading the core all the NSPs are right for the for for wireless For Metro and then also dark fiber provides you infinite amounts of bandwidth in the Metro. I Was driving through rural America and I Have an AT&T phone That's why and it went That is right in Iowa that that is right And I lost everything right. I didn't have voice. I didn't have internet. I was using a map I was you know, we me and my partner kind of laughed about it. I'm like we're lost, you know, but That's interesting to me, right? That was a real eye-opener to me that all of the things that I depend upon in this city on that phone Just went out the window for a minute there and it was like home So I wonder how driverless cars work through their driverless trucks all these things in those kind of areas and that's why you know, I've kind of been banging the gong of Medium-range connectivity, but I think you know, there's a big gap there. Yeah We send and not and I get peripheral I get to talk to Engineers within our company about that how they're trying to partner with the trains to put cells on trains as they go through or in drones on on blue weather balloons to get to the areas where And they're really looking at lots of different ways to get into the rural communities that are really fascinating So we're piloting them ourselves to get that type of connectivity out there Well, thank you very much to all our panelists