 So we're here at the ID Tech X Berlin right here in 2018. And so who are you? Hi, I'm Kala Bamanuwara Sheik. I'm representing a company called MUSE Innovation. So we are a company solely looking forward at the developments in the area of smart textiles and the e-textiles domain. So this is a mass innovation. So where are you based? So we are Sri Lankan based company and our core business is circulating between the textile domain and the giant partners like Victoria Secrets, Nike, Aridas, and Ram. Are they manufacturing in Sri Lanka? Yeah, including everything. The Lululemon. And we got like 94,000, the car inside our company working throughout the world. 94,000? 94,000. Like employees? Like employees, yeah. So it's a big textile company. Yes, so we are the biggest textile manufacturer in the Asia outside the China. So and you are working towards the e-textiles, smart. So for example, your jacket, maybe, will have a brain and you can touch the, what will happen, you think? Yeah, for example, we now got a project called Touchtakes. So here we are trying to incorporate touch density into the fabrics. As you might have seen this as a project called Google Jackher. So in that case, they are having a capacity-based touch density. But here we are trying to incorporate resistive-based touch-sensing plus the force-sensing. So by this one, you can give the XY coordinates plus the force-sensing. And force with e-textiles, is it easy or is it very difficult? The e-textiles is the greatest enabler for us to enable these touch-sensory into the fabrics. Because the biggest advantage for us right now is how to get the bendability, how to get the fabric feeling into the garment while maintaining the conventional garment properties. So with all the e-textiles, it couldn't be done. So the e-textiles is the greatest enabler for us to incorporate these fabric properties into the smart garments. So without saying any secrets or anything, how long have you been focusing on this? So we have been doing this innovation business like eight years of time and we are still continuing it right now. So it's been a long process. Yes. But any products released or still in the research? Absolutely, yes. I mean, we are like a prominent partner when it comes to the e-textiles and the smart textiles and we are collaboratively working with Microsoft, Google and for like our first product that we launched called the Ethos. So it is a product that we were looking forward to track your muscle activity while you are doing your workout sessions. So for example, you are doing your workout and sometimes you are focusing on one muscle but sometimes it's not be working right now. Some other muscle might be working but with the simple mobile application you can track whatever the muscles that you are working right now is actually working or not. So we can track your, we can map your muscle activity and with that one you can clearly measure and you can clearly identify what are the muscles that are still working, what are the muscles are actively not working widely. So there is one product that we launched and we launched another product. We collaborated working, worked with the product called Lumo and it is like an activity tracker and we had to develop all the integrations, the electronics and the algorithm part was done in the Louvain and the textile domain integration and making everything into like a nice washable garment that's what was done by my entity. It's all washable. Yes, it is 25 times. 25 times. 25 times machine washable. Is that enough? That is enough. That is the specs that has been required by the manufacturer itself. But if it's the manufacturer requesting for like a 50, 70, 100 wash cycles, we go to strategy for it. You have another strategy for different wash cycles. Yes, we go to different integration strategies at different price points. So what I've seen also is a hard rate monitoring, humidity sensor, steps, other things, right? And posture. Posture, yes. Like you can have a little external material in there or something. Yeah. Gyro. For example, we already developed this, the brand not called Project HIDIS. So at that time we were looking forward for like avenues like how to miniaturize electronics and incorporate that electronics into a garment. Because currently if you see most of the variables and most of the smart garments in the market right now it's pretty heavy and the cumbersome. The sleek factor is missing right now. And our sole objective is how to make electronics into the garment. But garment cannot be distinguished between conventionally to the garment and the smart garment. You won't see a big difference between our smart garment and the conventional garment. You could be wearing it right now. Yes, could be. Potentially. Yes. And there could be some awesome technology in your tie. For example, you could like titty titty. You can answer in SMS. And maybe the jacket has some kind of... Yeah, take for example, like if you can use our TouchTex platform that is being developed right now you can incorporate whatever touch button that you want. And if you want to just reject a call that is incoming you don't need to take your mobile phone out of your pocket. You can just tap our TouchTex, the button that is incorporated into your smart garment. And not only that, if you are wearing this one and if you are listening to your song. So if you want to skip this song, if you need to enhance or decrease the volume and stuff without taking your mobile phone out from your jacket, you can use our TouchTex platform and you can control your mobile phone without taking anything out. So it's Bluetooth, a low energy Bluetooth. Yes, it is Bluetooth 4.0. There's a PC, small PCB. Very small. With this phone battery or what kind of battery? Yeah, the battery is the three volt is more than enough for us. And it's a removable battery and everything can be sleekly incorporated into the fabric. And you won't see a big difference between that fabric and that garment and the conventional jacket. I think it would be cool if you could recharge from the, you know where you hang your clothes in the cupboard? Yeah. What's it called? The NFC, the near field charging. Yeah, some kind of charger in the cupboard. Yes. Automatically. Automatically, so that is the very same principle that we are utilizing right now. It is called the NFC charging that is pretty established principle. So nothing need to be plugged out. So we got the near field charging devices that can be purchased with the garment itself. So you can equip that into your wardrobe, your cupboard or your bedroom, something like that. So without making any changes to your lifestyle, you can easily use our garments. And the 94,000 employees in your company, they can all be switched to e-textiles easily? Definitely, yes. That is our North Star right now. But yeah. Potentially, if this becomes a huge market, you just switch to factory. Yes. Our core business is still on the conventional garments, the lingeries, the underwear for the Victoria secrets and the smart garments and the active wear for the Adidas, Andhraama, and the leisure wear for the Lululemon and stuff. The most of our revenues comprises with the cash inflows that is coming from that kind of industries. Because of that particular thing, that particular potential, we just started this entity called MMS Innovation just to look forward for the upcoming textiles. So that's how we initiated these initiatives like the electronics in the garment, the wearable electronics, the active and passive, intelligent garments and the stuff. So have you been to the Adi Tech X show before? This is my first time in the Adi Tech X, but one of few of my colleagues were visiting and the year before this one, and for the very first one. And the most of our people are pretty familiar to the industry people that is attending here. So we are... What's your experience so far with the conference? So very good experience and we got a very good ecosystem and the networking is excellent right now. And... This is the day before, right? This is master class day. Yes, even in the master classes. Tomorrow will be a big exhibition and everything. Yes, the tomorrow that we are anticipating a very good ecosystem partner that need to be connected with just to empower our innovations in a much greater potential. But even with the master classes, I can see there's so many high level of participation levels and the stuff and the people from the different industry with the different perspectives and the network level is pretty much excellent. And with that, I can see that the people can share the ideas and collaborate towards for a greater potential. Do you think I'm right when I think, when I say that e-textiles is the next iPhone? Because it's going to be so big. Everybody needs clothes, everybody. Buys clothes is very important to buy the clothes. But you will choose the one with the smart inside. So it will be a huge market. True. When it's ready, when it's really launched. Yes, I mean, this market is a technology pushed market. I mean, the customer doesn't know what they want right now. Take example of the iPhone that you already mentioned. At 2004, nobody expected the iPhone. But when the iPhone is in the market, everybody was looking forward for iPhone. But let's say in countries like Sri Lanka. Yes. Or in China and many other places, it's very easy to buy an iPhone copy. Yes. For like $50, right? Yes. So that's not about, I'm not promoting copies. But it's just saying that maybe the business is not going to be so big for smartphones anymore in the future. It is more competition. Yes. But there will be new market like e-textiles. Yes, for the e-textiles, the same situation can be happening. I mean, when you see the market is blooming and you can see so many followers are copying your inventions and your innovations, that should be anticipated. But when you come to the e-textiles, it is still emerging market. And we can see so many players are playing hardly in the market. And we are trying to make our stance on the market to be the first mover. First mover is important, but I also think it's going to be important to have a good brand. Yes. Good quality. Yes. And people are going to choose it. Yes. It doesn't matter if it's more expensive. Because you don't want to have e-textiles that doesn't work. Yes. Right? Yes, true. And very efficient and very well functioning, right? True. 100% agree on your point. So that's why we have already started this company, comprises 120 people and majority, like 60 to 80% of the people, comprises of the engineers and the scientists, solely working forward just to realize innovation in the e-textiles arena. So those people are the top in class when you come to their competencies. That's why we are getting the attention from the profound manufacturers like Google, Amazon and Microsoft. So we are one of the ecosystem partners right now. That's amazing, but it would be great if those companies, you mentioned, because they have so much cash in the bank. Yes, true. They should, if there is an amazing new material in this show, that somebody show an amazing new, potentially e-textile material, but maybe it needs 100 million or billion dollars before it can be ready for the market, you know? They should invest. Yes, true, absolutely. That is what we are expecting from an event like this. I mean, we need to identify the blooming opportunities and we need to identify the potential startups. And we need to identify what are the disrupting texts that has been exploited here, and we need to take that risk, just to take the required things into the market just by giving the required investment that is looking forward from it. Either you take the risk or maybe a company like your partner, Google, Amazon, or Microsoft. Yes. So definitely, it should be no brainer. They should just do it. No, and I hope they don't wait for Apple to do first. Yes, true, true. Because maybe Apple is going to do e-textiles. Yeah, maybe, maybe. But when you come to this domain, the experience matters, the learning curve matters. So we have developed so many texts. When you come to the cortex, like when you come to the parable text, we got four different fundamental platforms starting from the conductive pathways, and encapsulations, interconnections, and the stuff. Even though you are very excels in the electronics, but if you don't have a proper interconnection method, even though you are very excels in the electronics, if you don't have proper encapsulation method, you can't survive in the e-textiles market. So that is the area that we are excelling right now. That is the area that we have gained so much of a knowledge and we have pooled knowledge on that area. That's why so many companies are investing on us, looking forward to work with us, and we have realized so many projects when you come to the e-textiles domain. So what you just mentioned is the connecting, like the PCB kind of thing. It could be, yes. Connecting to the sensor. Connecting to the sensor. Connecting to the battery. Connecting to the battery, or connecting battery into the conductive pathways. It has to be flexible, but very durable. It should be flexible and durable. So we got our own state of the art methods to how to make the electronics more flexible, how to make the interconnections more flexible, how to make interconnections more robust enough. Waterproof. Waterproof, because at the end of the day, our garment should withstand against like at least 25 times of mechanical washers. It is a very hard task to achieve. Not just sweat. Sweat and the other external stimuli, everything. And that our garment should withstand against almost all the stimuli and external interferences. And we have gained so many knowledge and the practices, state of the art knowledge, especially. And those are the enablers for us when it comes to this game. And what is encapsulating? Encapsulation means, for example, if you need to incorporate any kind of electronics into the garment, you need to make sure that it is properly waterproof. So encapsulation is a way that we are applying our own conformal coatings and our own thermoplastic materials to make sure the flexibility is maintained, plus the washability is maintained. And we are making sure that if your specification is like at 25 cycles, no water penetration would be there up to 25 cycles. If it is 50, the same case. So the coating is like nano-coating is... If it could be a nano-coating, it could be micro-coating. If somebody's asking for a nano-coating, we got a solution for it and we got ecosystem partners for it. If somebody's asking for a micro-confirmable coating, again we got ecosystem, again we got a proper partners for it. And do all these e-textile product, my website is called ARM Devices. Do they all have small ARM processors right now? They all have small microcontrollers, right? Yes. And so there's software developers also. Yes. You have your company? Yes, we are basically looking forward on the open innovation. The open innovation is the sense of we are believing in the existing text because the learning curve matters at the end of the day. Because we know if company A is excel in A's technology, if the company B excels in B's technology, as a company, as MS innovations want to merge company A and B, we know that a conglomeration between A and B would realize a product C. So we are not going to start from the scratch. We are excelling in identifying the proper ecosystem partners and we are excelling in connecting the dots. At the end of the day, we are connecting the dots to get whatever the product that we want to achieve in the optimum conditions. Cool, so I'm really looking forward to the e-textile. I want this to launch in a big way and be revolutionary and hopefully consumers will understand that it's really useful to buy it. Absolutely, yes. And not only for people who do a lot of running in sports, that's cool market, but I think it should be for everybody. Yeah, definitely. The medical space is a still wide space for us. I mean, for example, the telemedicine is an emerging factor right now. Even in Sri Lanka, we've got so many startups, so all you're looking forward for are telemedicines. So currently, the biggest trends in the market right now is people who doesn't want to move here and there. They want to stay at home. They want to live in a connected world. So the leisure, the running and the activity market would be a one thing, but the telemedicines and even in the furniture. Because if you can embed the e-textile into the furniture, you can control whatever device that you want just by sitting on your sofa. You can control your TV, you can control your AC devices or anything that you want. That would be so cool. Absolutely, yes. That would be like revolutionizing IKEA. It is revolutionizing anything and it is a big enabler just to acquire the upcoming market. Even for this furniture, 2.0 would be e-textile embedded furniture. The medicine 2.0 would be the e-textile embedded smart garments. It needs to be in a pillow, maybe in the duvet, cover in the bed. It could be anything. In the mattress. It could be anything because we are trying to incorporate e-textile into the fabric itself. Fabric can be amended into whatever shape that you want. And then you could maybe get some haptics that wakes you up in the bed at the right time when you're ready to wake up. But it needs to be... Somebody needs to put it out there in the market and people are going to buy it, I think. If it works. Absolutely, yes. I strongly believe in that factor. I mean, the only thing is, the power consumption, the price factor, everything needs to be matched out. Because currently, to be honest with you, when come the smart garments, the price factor, we are not giving a right product at right price. Because still, since the market is very much niche, they're using premium pricing. That's why we are acquiring a very niche market. But we need this to be disrupted and we need to scale up the productions. Is it possible to print it like roll-to-roll and flexible electronics and lower the cost? Yes, even when you come to the biopotential sensors and the conductive pathways, we are still using that kind of a tech, I mean, printing on top of the garment. Cool, so looking forward, maybe at the next show, you will have some samples, right? Absolutely, yes. So I'm really looking forward to just to be an exhibiting partner here, just not by coming to as an attendee. Because, but we're exhibiting all samples in the consumer electronics show, CES, in 2018 in Las Vegas. And then it's for Munich. Was it popular booth? Yes, absolutely, yes. And I don't know why we haven't. Maybe, what I hope is that the next show, you have all your clothes you're wearing is all smart. Yes, I mean, because you have to use your own technology. Absolutely, yes. Not only talk about it. Yes, true, true on that. And the next thing that we are looking for right now is the active lighting tech. We got two products called Firefly and Nova. So that is for the runners. So if you are running in the dark, you will just not be confined into the like illumination tapes arena. So now you can have the active lighting. So that light can be visible, next to well washable lighting. Is it OLED? No, it is a conventional LED. Not OLED, OLED. If we use OLED, the price factor would be much higher. So now, but we have developed all the encapsulation integration technologies that conventional electronics can be incorporated into the governments. Nice, so you light up in the back. You can light up. And you can use for like four hours of period after 30 minutes of charging cycle. And that's a great for a party also. Yes. People, they want to go to the party. They want to be the attention. So it needs to be in like, not only in runner clothes, in the party clothes too. You got endless opportunities with that one. All right, so it's going to be an exciting job you have, right? Yes, absolutely yes. Cool.