 You to Sarah get it. No, I don't know. She's having some technical issues We may have to start without her Thankfully we have a full round table full Hopefully she's okay. You know, I don't have her number. Yeah, I just texted her Yep Really quiet real fast So just so you know, we're the the live stream or the YouTube live stream is up right now It's gonna be exciting. It's gonna be awesome space Totally boring most boring subject ever If only we lived in space We live in space already When you think about it That is exactly correct So Tom's gone we poor Tom I think what did it call Sarah No, yeah, sorry. I was this is making a call. I think we all brought our space game with our backgrounds today So it was the least spacey here you've got a space shuttle behind the shuttle Two One behind rock That's a lot of comic books that the enterprise or that the Franklin that is the x-o one I think yeah Any enterprises left think when I left tech TV, I left them at work Oh, yeah, that's our show is way cooler than my backdrop and I wish we had to store it at all That's fun and a bunch of polar lights always tonight, Bob Yeah, well, I Think we actually auctioned it all off now because we killed the show and they were just like we'll watch them That's neat But Bobic area you guys are Bobic you're down in San Diego. Is that right? No pass it either Okay, not an aerial you're passing in a food San Francisco San Francisco All right, Sarah had a little technical difficulty, but she says she's joining now so Sorry for the slight delay Um, yeah, so we're all west coast, california win state Can we play like the jefferson starship sarah something for her when she comes on Right Yeah Why did your bra Banco? Exactly You know the only sarah music I have is teagan and sarah They don't sing about themselves. I guess I mean maybe they do but not by name Do I have jefferson anything? I really really hope so for your I guess it's starship at that point. It is. Yeah, wait There it is Yeah, I better stop before youtube No, they don't they they flag all that stuff That's a pretty cool algorithm that they're doing all this They even occasionally flag us for mature content when we haven't even started the show Which is weird, but whatever It's aerials background The shuttle was a little big phallic guys. I'm not gonna lie. I mean, oh my god. Yeah, let's not get into rockets and shape today The the position of the ears on your nebaz tag is just very Suggestive. I remember those I can you know Pull them off Can I have a one ear now this tag another piece of technological history? Do you guys like standing up for these things it feels like a lot of time to time I just I am been standing up for a while. I used to sit and it was way less comfortable Okay, so I I stand now and and by the end I might I might sit in the post show after we're done, but But it it definitely helps me Stay a little looser. It helps me sailor So I've got standing desks all over the place. I can I can put this down Bob. I apologize. Oh, no No, I just was wondering I was I was just curious about the personal choice I wasn't I wasn't like a criticism. Yeah. Yeah, you're just you're just collecting data. That's all. Yeah. Yeah It's constantly I like to see what other people's experiences are One of my big regrets in life is that I can't have more Careers like I love my job, but I also wish I could have other people's jobs We should just go independent and you know, then you get to pick Is like I'm Terrifying me. I can't imagine not having a steady It can be terrifying. It's true. Yeah, but but I don't have to stick to any one place. Which is awesome. That's true I jump from what you guys are doing to to computer graphics. So yeah And you obviously seem happy Well, no, I'm cheery Okay Does that go overboard? Yeah I'm thinking my second act is going to be state department if there's still one There'll be one still be something called the state department Learn languages travel abroad. I didn't apply to a state department like fellow thing. What is it called the I forgot what they're called. They have like a fellowship program, but of course I Applied like within the last like year or something. So I was like, yeah, I'm pretty sure every application It's just going to get rejected from this prior to this I was just on a call with a woman that was she was on the national science foundations Board which is an interesting way to do it too. Is that some good stuff there? I'm so sorry a little sad. No problem. I'm glad that you were able to get it worked out Do we have your video? Um, let me check Let me move these times just a little smidgen. Oh, yeah, just nudge them. There we go. All right Everyone Sarah Sarah. Do you know everyone? I know some of you No, I think I know everybody. Hi everyone. Hey, Ariel. It's been so long. How are you doing? Good. How are you? Oh, really good? Really good? Hi, Bob back. Hello Hi. Hi. Hi Um, we should probably get rolling. Yeah. Yeah. I'm ready to go Here we The daily tech news show is powered by its listeners not outside organizations If you get value from the show consider giving a little back as little as a dollar a month keeps great tech news and analysis Coming your way commercial free find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash support This is the daily tech news show for friday march 30th 2018 from dgns headquarters in los angeles. I'm tom merit And from studio feelin. I'm sarah lane joining us today Are a very special panel for our space round table Starting with bob back for dosy spacecraft systems engineer. Thanks for joining us Thanks for having me ariel waldman advisor to nasa innovative advanced concepts is here as well. Thank you ariel Yeah, thanks And rob de millo cto of nimble collective and a former jpl research project lead on things like gala leo imaging marz observer Part of the us team that worked on the soviet union's venera spacecraft not to date you No, no, you just did But welcome rob good to have you along as well. Nice to have nice to be here. Thank you And big thanks to our producer roger chang for putting all this all together. Good work, roger Hey, yes I'm hoping it's well. It's gonna work. It's gonna work Uh, if you're unfamiliar, this is our monthly round table show focused this month on space It's the show we do once a month where we expand the regular show Into this discussion. We do a full hour With sarah myself and our guests and while all our topics are within the realm of tech news We still want to start with a few tech things you should know Buzzfeed posted an internal memo from facebook of vice president andrew bosworth from june 18 2016 the memo argued that connecting people with Was facebook's job? No matter what bosworth wrote quote Maybe it cost something alive by exposing someone to bullies. Maybe someone dies in a terrorist attack I'm sorry. It's it's just a very strange quote Coordinated on our tools adding later that anything that allows us to connect more more often De facto is good bosworth said he made the pose to surface issues And uh and have a debate uh mark sakura told buzzfeed that most people At facebook disagreed strongly with the ideas expressed in the memo. Yeah, it's uh, the the whole facebook situation is so ridiculous It's it's it's starting to get funny Now in a not funny sort of way Sometimes sunday morning china's abandoned changong one space station will return to earth the station weighs about 18 000 pounds Now most of that will break up and burn up on reentry The station is not under control hasn't been since 2016 and it's moving fast So it's difficult to predict where it will land though statistically It will be somewhere between latitudes 43 degrees north and 43 degrees south It is unlikely to be on solid ground much less populated area But you're interested to find out where it ends up Under armor announced thursday that 150 million accounts for its my fitness palette app had been accessed by attackers in february Username's email addresses and passwords hash with b-crypt were exposed Under armor is requiring all apps to change their user passwords SpaceX launched a group of 10 next satellites for iridium friday with a partially reused falcon nine SpaceX has launched 50 satellites for iridium's next project so far They're going to launch a total of 75 for them. And I think there's 81 that will make up the network It's replacing the world's largest commercial satellite network of low earth orbitals. SpaceX attempted to recover the faring But ceo elan must tweeted that the faring impacted water at high speed Which probably means they're not going to recover The the usfcc has approved space x's plan to launch 4,412 five Hi Satellites as part of a broadband network half of the satellites will need to be launched within six years The service will be called starlink and will need to have debris mitigation plan finished before launch SpaceX will need further approval for lower attitude altitude rather satellites that would bring its Number to 12,000 and that is a look at the stories of the day Let's kick off the first of our discussions bob back Given some of the space x news that we have here today What's your perspective on how privatization is working with organizations like Like nasa like jacksa and others? I mean, I think it's a good thing for everybody obviously Any time that we can get cheaper launches, which is ultimately what their goal of privatization is That means it's just more opportunity for for people like nasa for isa jacksa to to launch more missions I don't see them as competitive. I see them as a really collaborative nasa's commercial crew program is an example of that of course too where they're partnering with space x and bowing To deliver humans to low earth orbit To the space station, etc. But the idea is just like, you know, with an airline industry You know when I fly cross country, I don't buy my own plane. I don't buy my own, you know capsule And the idea would be that that nasa can be you know by a seat on a You know a cabin are in a capsule rather than uh, then i'm hoping each time and I think that's uh, that's a great thing for all of us Sometimes I think the analog of nasa and these other organizations is a little bit like the f a a but you bring up a good point The f a a doesn't need to put people on airplanes to go places and nasa has a whole lot more of a research purpose For it then then say the f a a does Yeah, a nice analogy. I think it's usps versus fedex and ups, right? I mean companies are are Finally tuned to optimize the bottom line and so where where the government doesn't really have that kind of a Kind of an incentive to get things going. I think that uh, yeah, it works out well for everybody Ariel, how do you how do you feel about the the sort of the the blending world that we're in? Yeah, I think you know, it's it's good. It's been ramping up for quite a while And I think people are just starting to take notice I do think that there is It's frustrating that a lot of people think that it's one or the other and not that they both need each other And without each other they both be pretty bad off if not Unbelievable almost, but um, you know, I think it's something where Uh, I I appreciate you saying, you know that NASA does a lot of research because I think that's what a lot of people forget about The privatization that they see that's going on in the headlines at least because a lot of it is, you know, engineering and rocket companies and Uh, you know people who aren't doing things like astrobiology or you know other things they're enabling You know some cheaper flights for that stuff, but they themselves aren't doing it. So um, just as as uh, everyone's been saying it's it is Blending and a collaborative thing and they really need each other What do you guys think are the things if you had to guess and this is a total guess question Uh, what do you think the things are that private? privatization of space will end up being the best at And that the the public side will continue to be needed for and be the best at if If you look looking in your crystal ball Ariel just said it, I mean it's The government and nasa in in general can focus on the science of space Right and leave the the the rocketeering and The conveyor belt of getting back and forth to the private sector this which is something really good at doing So just optimizing getting that bottom line small getting the cost per dollar per pound of payload low So that uh, you know NASA and jpl don't have to spend their money You know 70 million dollars trying to figure out how to get a rocket to Pluto They can conscious rate on the payload. That's actually going to go to Pluto Bob back. Do you think there'll be some some less I don't want to say less scientific but but more practical aspects that that these public agencies will still be needed for Yeah, I mean, I think things that are in the vein of of uh, big technical, you know pushes Developments, you know, we still see it right with the aeronautic side of nasa where they're still focused on Increasing fuel efficiency for airplanes working on possibly supersonic, you know transportation Things like that. So there's a lot of areas where Thinking big picture not just kind of local what's great for my company about what sort of technologies might enable Uh rocket companies as well as as, you know, still continued Presidency on earth with airplanes. Um, and I see that kind of being a great place for for government to still sort of Cooperate and coordinate all those efforts and to continue to obviously do The the cutting edge research there. So I like I said, I think that It allows really, I mean, I think it's allows people to sort of optimize what they're doing Another level right where my cat is sneezing adorably. I'm sorry That is nothing to sneeze at cat um, but you know, I I think You know that that you know space x's and bowies can work on what what is best for them while A larger organization can see, you know, I think oh the strategic Developments, perhaps it's, you know, solar electric propulsion or, you know, wing lick technologies for airplanes, whatever those be Um could really benefit and I think ultimately You know lead to new Economic growth in in sort of private industry and that's a great, you know, that's a great place and invest in those upfront kind of big costs, uh As a strategic, you know nation kind of a nationwide thing that benefits us all And then leads to to you know, hopefully more growth Yeah, it doesn't have to be competitive. Uh, it can be co-co-co-operate Co-operative so to speak. Uh, you know, NASA can take the advances from the private companies and build on them And and the research that NASA does and the envelope that it pushes Uh can be used by the private companies and and that I feel like is what drives progress for for farther forward faster Yeah, absolutely No, I mean Oh, I was gonna say, I mean, this is a terribly flawed analogy, but you know, there are things that governments are great at and You know where we don't necessarily know that there's an economics Um involved we think there might be but that's a great place for a government to take risk where Our companies can't and again, I you know, I look at the world today I think it's more important than ever for You know governments to think strategically about the long-term health of their country You know their country and what areas can as the united states? What can we push forward through government funding to make sure that you know Our economy is robust in the future that we continue to do cutting edge research across a wide variety of domains What will benefit our people all of those things? I mean, I think they're super synergistic I just think that you know, it's it's easy to see these as as competition But I I don't ever look over at the SpaceX and see they're gonna send You know spacecraft to to the moons of jupiter Um, it's not really in there. There's there's nothing for them to do there. It's not like, you know, Give money back to the stakeholders Although the tesla might end up there if it's orbit, you know got perturbed at some point, you know I'm I'm wondering so is there a danger You know, especially when you when you involve, you know politics To have a lot of those things that are currently done through government agencies um kind of Pushed over where it suggests. Well the the private sector can handle it, right? So there there might be kind of a Mindset where, you know, let's let's let let the government Release more and more of these responsibilities Hoping that the private sector will pick it up That they may not or may not may not be able to or be willing to and then you're kind of Left in a in a situation where you know, you know Government doesn't want to do funding and the private sector only wants to focus on narrowly on things that they think they can get a return on The long term, how do you combat that? Like is it is it more than just? Education is it more than uh, just finding where government private? Uh company uh sponsorships can can work to everyone's benefit kind of thing It's it's definitely a delicate balance. It's something that I think um, you have to be really Careful in educating Legislators about it. So an example to me is that um after the election, um, you know You know, there was talk of uh climate Climate-related satellites, uh, you know being taken down or no longer serviced or or not in operation um and governor jerry brown famously, you know went to a scientific conference and and Proclaimed, you know, if trump shoots our satellites down california will launch its own Which is incredibly like exciting and inspiring to like know that like we're not going to drop the ball That said, you know, I immediately became concerned because california one of the things that it does really great Is have a lot of startups do a lot of you know business Um, and you already have a lot of companies who are doing a lot of satellite production and launching so, um No one would be better than california to sort of pick up the slack the thing that would be scary though is if someone like governor jerry brown Would then put into legislation things that would only incentivize Companies to be doing those satellites to the point that it would almost prove You know to congress that oh the government doesn't need to do this anymore The private sector picked it up the problem with that of course is that companies change they change their chief officers They change over time. They change their missions They cannot be depended upon as much as government can long term and so Things like that certainly scared me because I think the private sector should be involved But we have to be careful about not making it Um so that we feel like oh it's all taken care of we don't have to worry about it because I don't think companies can Be trusted in the long term for better or worse Sure and that that message gets obfuscated too. I mean there's a lot of um It happens not just in in the space sciences, but in all sciences where there is a there is this Push from the executive branch or just push from from the congressional branch to offload the cost on privatization Without a lot of information about what that actually means um to to forward to some agenda that we're not aware of right and so it's pretty easy to Make a case to the public that oh well We're going to save you a billion tax dollars if we let these companies handle these particular projects or this particular chunk of science And it's it's a it's a bad message. I agree Now turning us to a little bit more positive before we finish up this topic One of the things that our patrons wanted us to talk about were some of our favorite Advancements in the last year or two real quickly as as we wrap this this section up Do you have any off the top of your head that you're like? This is the cool thing that happened in the last 12 24 months That I think shows that this is still at a really exciting arena to be paying attention to Am I going to get am I going to get crucified by you too if I mentioned the albuquerie drive? Which I think is pretty awesome like the work the work getting done there. I mean it there's so There's a researcher named albuquerie, and I hope I'm not mangling his name, but I suspect I am that About a decade and a half ago came up with the concept of being able to Create drives which were faster than light and he was taken as a crackpot for a very long time and now he you know, he's gotten a lot of attention and I believe in Bob, you can you can tell me one way or the other but I believe that there's there's actually funding going on now from nasa to sort of Investigate that research a lot more seriously I think that's right. I remember vaguely it coming out of it I don't believe it's our center, but I do remember some some funding for it through an asset research grant That to me is yeah Testing going on, but it's turning out to be worth continuing is what it sounds like. Yeah Ariel Bobak any any of your favorites from the last couple years I mean for me, you know, so I have so many to go off of but The big thing that like is fundamentally changing everything is the direct detection of gravitational waves The fact that we don't need to or you know, we can In addition to using the electromagnetic spectrum, we can literally be feeling sort of the the waves of You know of black holes of neutron star collisions And this opens up an entirely new dimension in astronomy. So You know a lot of times they call it multi messenger astronomy So now, you know in addition to looking at things in electromagnetic waves We can be looking for tiny tiny little stretches in spacetime to tell us about big events that happened long ago in the universe and this is Such an exciting time because we're just at the beginning of an entirely new Sort of area of study to opening. So you're going to be having a lot more young people going into astronomy and Being experts in gravitational waves. Whereas the last several Years, it's really been all about can we even directly detect this thing that we know is predicted. So It's a really really exciting thing And and it a big fundamental shift in how astronomy can be done. Yeah, absolutely Bob back. Do you have one minds? I'll go with a super mundane and practical I was really excited to see blue origins be forage and get tested Um, I just think it's great to see really an industry popping up And I know that you've already seen a lot of success from SpaceX and it's super exciting I mean I watched a launch from my balcony this morning Um, which is still blows my mind that I live in a place where rockets actually Uh, I forget that living in LA. You just totally you don't remember There was a rocket out there. Yeah, that's crazy. Now, but yeah, I mean blue origin is also, you know, is is doing great things It's a super Practical and you know and built in America engine, which is also really good news for us And uh, the fact that they can do it, you know and sell it to customers like ULA is it's a great great thing Yeah, it takes multiple companies to make yeah, it's like a Honda Civic It's reliable and you just that's what we need more of in space a lot a lot more reliability Yeah, absolutely. All right that music means it's time for us to move on to our next discussion and Ariel You wanted to talk about weird and multidisciplinary future of space tech items. What do you got? Uh, there's so many so yeah, literally just a few minutes before even coming on this show NASA in advance concepts, uh, announced their latest round of Funded space tech. Yeah, you can see it up here on the the screen so I haven't even had a chance to like look at like all the awesome stuff that just got funded but um, but I'm always excited about, uh with A lot of the advancements that are coming Uh in space exploration that could be really transformative to future space missions how multidisciplinary they are You know, uh involving uh biologists or material scientists or other things so A few examples that I personally love that that nyac has funded in the past have been things like A solar white, which is a material that reflects 99.99 of the sun's energy which is Outperforming all other materials that we've used on spacecraft So stuff like that which uses a form of like titanium dioxide Allow spacecrafts to get closer to the sun But it's also incredibly enabling for things like the future of human missions to mars Because it can keep things like liquid oxygen Incredibly cool, which it needs to be on the way to mars for long duration periods so Things like that are interesting. Uh, you have biologists who are synthetically engineering microbes to eat um Old electronic parks at parts and poop out copper as a result so that you can kind of reuse electronics Um to build new circuits, um, which would be really useful again for a future human mission to mars or any long duration space mission Um, so those are only a couple examples. I've got a ton that I love, but I think This is what's really exciting about Uh space exploration and and even on the citizen science side is is really the fact that space exploration really requires people from all different Disciplines and backgrounds to be contributing to it so that we can get all of these clever solutions Yeah, I think a lot of people when they think of space and space exploration and research they think of Uh engines and rockets, right? I mean, that's just natural But you forget and and you see the headlines all the time. There's there's a lot of of non Technica and non-technical, but but but non-spacey stuff By like you say like biology Yeah, there's a lot out there. Uh, one of the ones last year was a um physical therapist who was funded because he has a novel idea for artificial gravity So, you know in the sense of you know, giving Astronauts enough of a feeling of gravity so that it doesn't take as much wear and tear on their body and so I think this is the thing That I try to remind people is that there's a lot of things that sound very science fiction and out there Um, but they're actually, you know utilizing a lot of present day ideas In tech for instance, uh, there's a project that was funded that uses computer vision to route Rovers on the moon to stay in continuous sunlight It's a really basic thing for most of us in tech to think about okay using computer vision to keep A rover and continuous sunlight not very difficult But that hasn't been done before in space and so I think it's an exciting time to contribute Whatever you're working on towards space mission ideas as the future continues to sort of unfold in in the space industry Yeah, the lag time between technology Advancements and when they can actually be implemented on a mission is is is I don't know is it getting shorter, but it's it's always been long I well, I think uh, bovak or rob would probably have a lot more experience with that I think you know, I think they have to be quite patient with uh, you know building space crafts and and then having to wait the many years that it takes to To launching them and having to sort of future proof your technology right Yeah, huge pushing technology and falling within certain guidelines Back in the day when I when I was at jpl It was right as the challenge explosion happened and the result of that Was that a direct shot for the Galileo mission to jupiter got diverted right because uh, the everyone freaked out about The fact that it had a tiny little radioactive payload so they didn't want to put enough fuel in there that could endanger people so it took the long way around and so That was in the 80s and now I it seems like The time period is shortening between the theoretical to the practical to the deployed as a product and you know That's not true for the biological sciences, but I think for the material sciences and everything else It does feel as though that time frame is shortening All back feel like that to you I think one of the big areas that's changed and it kind of harkening back to the earlier stuff with The lower costs of access to space Also the rise of small satellites cubesats things like that means that there's a huge platform now That's relatively inexpensive and relatively short timelines You know a year or two if if not even less between when you can make a change and Launch them and I you know, I know folks at planet and They're on you know block whatever 70 of their dove because you know, I'm the same with space x block You know block five or whatever of the falcon nine that just as we increase the frequency of access to space people can make changes and you know and kind of propagate them and then we can all take advantage of Of the so, you know, there was some cell phone based cubesats the last couple years Which is pretty incredible to me given that you know the the processors we have on most of our Flagship missions are significantly worse than the the cell phones that we you know We have even the cell phones of when they launched Um, right? So I mean, it's uh, they're not huge computing powers So that the fact that you can kind of play with it miniaturization of technology All that stuff, uh, it's I think it's going to be even better But I think there's always going to be an inherent, you know concern Uh, legitimate concern about when you're spending a large, you know, number, you know numbers billions of dollars on missions that you really do want some significant heritage or Provenness of the technology. So but I I think what we'll see is a is a good portfolio, right? We'll see the earth satellites and kind of prove out a bunch of Stuff quickly then they make it to the the large the geo sats and then they make it out to the You know, the you know, exoplanetary sort of stuff where We'll see a lot of cool things. So it it's definitely faster and I can only imagine that pace picks up more In the next few years It's interesting you mentioned the the kubesats. So there was a company I was looking at a few years ago And well, I won't mention the name of it It's here in san francisco and they had just successfully launched a couple of kubesats And we're working on getting a constellation in place and for people that are not aware of what they are They're tiny little 10 centimeter on a side Operate in a swarm essentially they call them constellations, but there's a swarm and the idea is you put them in orbit and You don't there's no propulsion You just toss them in orbit and they just kind of orbit and then eventually they'll decay and you just replace the ones that That have fallen out of orbit and you can replace them with components that are more modern And so for instance in an earth observation satellite You know one of the one of the long tails of Some of these earth orbiting systems or even interplanetary systems Is that you're stuck with the camera and the the the applications and the The physical mechanism that you had when you started building the thing and if you've got a seven-year launch window by the time it's launched It's obsolete and in the case of the kubesats Those things obsolete you just let them go dead and you put up two more, right? And It's it's pretty neat actually. So it's a neat thing Well, in fact, we've gotten enough capacity worldwide that I hesitate to ever call anything at first because you might just not know but we had an example of A couple of things being launched into space without proper notification that some folks got in trouble Yep, that's It's such a frustrating thing because it just ruins it for everyone else like on so many levels like you know So yeah, you're referencing, you know the startup that launched the Things that are more sandwich size than you know, they're like one fourth of the They think kubesat size and oh my god. Yeah, so the worry was that they couldn't be tracked very well And thus could pose like harm and something that small inherently can just pose more more harm and It's just frustrating because even you know, so first there's the thing of well if it Could actually pose harm you're only going to ruin it for yourself and everyone else physically in space by creating debris events Which can ruin other satellites which can cause international incidents if you ruin another country's satellite Because you know whether you like it or not as a startup if you're an American startup and you see up some other country's satellite You've caused an international incident. That's not awesome And then there's just the screwing it up for everyone else on the startup side of things because You know one one startup going rogue essentially And doing something like that means that there are inherently going to be more hurdles put in place for startups to even launch things And for some startups that can mean life or death. They already have to go through quite a lot just to even get onto the rocket and launch into space, but if For instance, the FCC knows that a startup could put something on a rocket that they don't know about and that they Thus have to check it before it that rocket goes into space That's one more hurdle that can mean that a startup gets knocked off of a rocket launch And they don't get that chance at all and they don't have enough money to do another one so Yeah, it was really upsetting to see that happen All those things are true and I don't mean to in any way condone what they did but It was Remarkable to me that we have gotten to a place where that could happen where we we are a we have enough of a wide ranging space capacity as a huge as a species That I mean the idea I mean think about it the idea of like oh, I put something into space without getting approval was just laughable For most of my life Right, uh, and and so I'm not I'm not trying to excuse it or downplay the seriousness of it But but it is kind of crazy that we it's like wow. We actually need to start checking payloads Because so many people can do this. Well, what's interesting about that comment? Is that you know when I was a kid, you know, which was back in the 70s You know Buddies of mine and I we'd sit down we do the math like what would it take Like how much propulsion do you need to put the orbit or how could you build the thing? We never actually get it but we figured out how to do it but that same drive Is this thing that that pushed uh bezos and and musk? Um and and branson, you know to as kids these these these guys were all they were they love this stuff And their answer to the problem was not to sit in the backyard with metal pipes and try and figure out how to get something in orbit It was to like let's go start these companies And make a lot of money so we can start the actual company that we really wanted to start And um, it it's fascinating. So ariel. Yeah, I agree with you And it's hard to track those things At the same point It's it's it is remarkable like it is remarkable that you can swap out The cube sats again if you if you just swap out components as you need to For almost no money. It's amazing. So I don't know. I don't know where the truth is and I don't know where That fits but Yeah, bobeck. Does this concern you? I mean, I have just in general concerns, of course I mean, I think it's a net good thing. I'm really excited. Obviously, I think in the same kind of frame of mind as you are Which is it is incredible to live in a time where this is a possibility But yeah tracking objects in space is a it's a legitimate concern Um, we already know that there's a number of issues with just the objects that we already have in space So creating more that luckily all these things I mean so far I've been to relatively low orbits that are going to decay quickly and we saw that with humanity star and a bunch of other things where they're coming back pretty fast, but You know the capability is only going to get better and people are going to find ways of, you know Of not necessarily properly maintaining or mitigating their their debris afterwards And that is a a legitimate concern. Not to miss. I put it on to the small startups Um, because I I do want to see that area grow and get fostered But we also, you know from a from a let's say from my personal work perspective Since most of the places that I send things are really busy Um, but from a just from a general perspective, I'd like to see people You know be aware of that and this is no, you know, this is no different than any other industry We should just be aware of our environmental impacts and Yeah, uh, that's that's just the you know now that the environment is expanding to include space And we should we should take the same concerns. Yeah, I mean you think about rivers in old villages People didn't worry too much about throwing stuff in it because the river just took it away until we got enough people And we created industry and then polluting the rivers became a problem Right. We're we're at the of the river in the village edge With space like we've been throwing things in space because hey space, you know, it'll just Hey, you can't fill it up. Well, it turns out, you know, if we do enough space stuff we can so Yeah, yeah All right. Uh, well that music means it's time to move to the next topic. Uh, sarah You want to kick us off for the next one? I would love to so rich you had mentioned a citizen Scientist, what is that? Let's talk a little bit more about what that is and how they're using the internet. Yeah So it's interesting because uh, again, you know going back to when I was a teen geek in the 70s Uh citizen science involved you and your telescope and uh, you know a camera mounted on a on a telescope barrel and doing the clock drive thing and and You know and it was fun and you wound up connecting with people Usually over us postal mail or or international postal mail Uh, and coordinating your efforts and astronomy clubs at local high schools and things like that things have changed Right and um, you know, it's interesting that that cube sets was in the previous conversations because it fits into here too um As the price of payloads go way down the ability of a hobbyist organization or an individual Uh to put up a cube set that does something interesting for that organization or individual and and can be shared with the world This is is unique in in history of human civilization and In the case of astronomy There are a number of organizations and you I'm just going to name a few but you can google them and there's like 10 000 That you know have cameras that are running in their backyards or on tops of hills with ccd Equipment attached to the end of the barrel and it's being pumped live over the internet You can be anywhere in the world right now and watch a solar eclipse a lunar eclipse live if it's happening Uh, and people are making observations that no one else has before right and the more eyeballs that you get on Some of the stuff that is going on The more you can direct research to it. Uh, there's a lot of cases of people discovering Comets and and uh new stars and and what have you just by looking at the data without actually having any physical equipment so That particular aspect of what's going on in the world right now is is Shockingly great like it if you told 15 year old me that that was possible. I would not believe you Ariel I feel like this crosses over into a lot of the stuff that that you do too Yeah, uh, yeah, it's definitely that's well, I mean, I'm I'm living proof I I I went to art school and you know, I'm not a scientist By any means but now my my resume certainly looks more like a scientist's resume, but Um, yeah, there's there's so much to talk about here. So 10 years ago I launched space hack.org Which is a directory of ways for anyone to participate in space exploration And so it's been really interesting now to see What has changed and what hasn't in the last 10 years in terms of citizen science specifically to space and it's um, it's an interesting tension because there is Uh, a greater perception now than there was 10 years ago that space Exploration is more accessible But how much that's the truth is still You know intention. So there's cool things you can be doing But I think um, there's still a problem where a lot of the scientific institutions that could be Better enabling citizen scientists better funding citizen scientists Very much just still view them as an education and public outreach thing They don't actually incorporate them at the same way they do as other scientists. So Actually, uh, for me personally, I actually don't like the term citizen science at all because to me It's just science. It's just about opening science up so that it's not something that only a very tiny segment of the population can Do well, it's not like scientists aren't citizens either. You're right Yeah, yeah, I so I don't like the phrase like I get I get why people use the phrase and I get that like it You know, it's a good, um, sort of placeholder for for uh delineating between, you know, different Types of things that you're trying to reference but um, but for the most part I I viewed as science and so a lot of my work Over the last 10 years has been trying to Get us to a point where we just treat it as science and that uh, people who don't have Institutions backing them can get funding from the nsf Um, just as easily as people who do have institutions and right now that's not the case. So Um, so I continue the fight I About back. How do you how do you feel as someone who works inside the industry? Uh, about the idea of opening this up to I'm a huge fan of opening it up. I mean I work on a project called Panofi's as well And that is a project designed to Allow similar to um, you know, what we're talking about earlier of having cameras in your backyard Imaging in this case stars specifically looking for planetary transits and you know within enough cameras, right? Looking around the world at the star as repeatedly you can see the dips in the star brightness And look for exoplanetary transits and the idea is you know to get more people excited and involved and personally connected to The research that's going on and uh, you know, I like it as well because I think it It allows younger people to get involved. It's a high cost thing necessarily, you know High school could do it and you know, we've seen that with the robotics programs in high schools and the way that It's a great way to sort of get people connected to You know science and engineering and it's a great way for you know for them to sort of Experience at first hand rather than and you know, I'm a Fortunate that I ended up in this field but so much of what I did when I was a kid was reading about Space and books, which I always think is like reading about swimming. It's great, but you don't You know, you don't actually learn how to swim until you get in the water And so now seeing that age move younger and younger it just it makes me really excited And I think I want everybody to be a part of it. It's just the more the more hands the more science we can do I remember a book when I was a I keep going back to being a teenager. Sorry about that I like it because it leads over the internet age and go back to There was a book that I that I bought called radio astronomy parameters or something along those lines and and uh, you know my astronomy club of high school We built a radio telescope And it wasn't hard Right and and if if you people If people wanted to get involved and you know, I'm not aware that there is anything like this and there might actually be But you know to build radio telescopes at various places on the planet and link them together on the internet and you you've created Something that would have taken You know hundreds of millions of dollars of Costs otherwise to create and it's just great stuff. It's a lot of fun Oh put a short very short. I wrote a book called the long space recently by a space economist alex mcdonald And uh, what was interesting is you read about early astronomy in the united states. It was all largely kick-started. It was publicly funded Um, people would go around collecting, you know, five or ten dollars from from citizens And they would you know use that to build out telescopes Um, like, you know, Cincinnati telescope things like philadelphia's telescope schools, you know, some high schools or college kind of telescopes So people were more directly connected at one point and eventually transitioned into this largely government funded sort of Feel that we have today, but it's it's actually nice at some level to see The growth of private industry and individuals going back because you know, we have like things like tech observatories and things of them You know, wealthy people who funded them Um, but I think we're you know, we're slowly seeing a better balance of of the you know The combination of government funding for certain areas Wealthy individuals and hopefully, you know more and more this Whether it be with money or just their time and efforts Individuals kind of being they connect to it. So I think this is actually a historic thing is what I'm saying at some level Um, just that we sort of lost sight of that for a while Yeah, in fact the the recent absence of it might be more of an exception Right than the norm interesting We need more people involved in science and and starting at an early level and starting at a non Ariel I'll say non professional at a not different level Um And getting an educated crowd in science started again. I think it's important and I think recent Situations around the world have shown how important it actually is that there's not a lot of science literacy going on at the highest levels of government Well, and then there's the idea that uh, you know getting kids involved and we touched on this is important Because then they develop confidence with it and and and maybe end up going into it What about projects beyond just setting at home or something like that that that are more like what bob back was talking about where People of any age whether, you know, you're you're in your 30s 40s 50s or older Can can participate just just for the enjoyment of it Yeah, I mean I I try and tackle that with science hack day, which is An event that gets scientists and designers and developers and all different types of people Together in the same physical space to prototype something over a weekend science hack day is now in 29 countries so it's been growing uh a bit um and it's really exciting because You know, I think what I always try and communicate is that you know, if you want to Like change your career and go into science awesome But if you love your career or if you love like what you're already doing Like you don't have to change anything. You don't need to drop everything go get a different degree You can get involved and you can play around with things and actually contribute to science Um, you know over a weekend and so with science hack day, we've had Things uh that become multi-year, you know student led research programs that came out of science hack day You know weird collaborations You know, we have equally scientists who are Contributing to fields that they otherwise have no opportunity to so, you know Getting particle physicists to collaborate with jellyfish biologists because they love, you know, the particle physicists loves jellyfish and just It was a career he never got to go into, you know, so never got stunned by what apparently yeah, right exactly But you know, so I think um, this is uh the really important thing That I think the science industry Unfortunately, I would have to like shame them a bit about doing is because they they um do inadvertently sometimes communicate that You know, oh, we lost this person to science. They didn't go into science Now, I guess we'll have to just keep focusing on all the little kids But that's not reality, you know, you have people in their 20s 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s, you know, so on Who have really interesting ways of looking at the world and really interesting skill sets that would be really beneficial to science and space and I think the science industry Is reckless by not better engaging with these people again on a Equal level not treating them as some sort of education outreach But actually treating them as people who can contribute meaningfully To things and actually develop more clever solutions that the science industry couldn't develop on its own um, I think that's really what's what's needed more and so Science hackday is is one example nyak is another um, and I my hope is that um, you know, there will be more opportunities that focus. Yeah on people of all ages Yeah, because there's lots of cool programs out there There's there's weather programs for people to just can contribute local weather information There's there's a raspberry pi program where you can actually track flights to help flight aware increase its database. So Uh, it's not just space, but there's lots of cool space stuff out there as well. All right, uh To our final topic for today's show This one was suggested by our patrons at patreon.com slash dts particularly those at the advisor level They voted that they wanted to hear us talk about how close are we to the big accomplishments? Based on the moon Mining and asteroid Living on mars. What's it going to take? For us to do all of these things that we've been reading about in science fiction and seeing on star trek and movies and tv shows Uh When's that going to happen bob act no like how close are we and what kinds of things need to happen? Um, I mean, I am eternally optimistic that we're close And obviously I wouldn't pick a profession to work in that I wasn't optimistic about Um, you know, I still think it's a ways away. I think there's a ton of technologies to be proven out Um, the good news is that we're slowly looking at that, right? We have you know data now for radiation environments from earth to mars For example, which humans should be deeply concerned about Um, you know, we should we were we're hopefully demonstrating some technologies on the mars 2020 rover That will prove um be able to be able to take oxygen from the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere That's critical for for not just for humans to live there But you know if you want to come back and you want the oxygen for your return flight Um, an important thing. Yeah, an important thing for fuel and for breathing. Um, so all of those are sort of technologies that we need to demonstrate. I think again, you know, we're we're excited again, maybe it feels like With the the developments in private industry, they feel like we're once again sort of picking up the pace of progress But I you know, I am uh, I I feel like we've also just been really fortunate in this recent kind of set of developments and Once humans are sort of on top of some of these rockets, it's going to be a very different pace again, um and and rightfully so because human lives are you know more valuable than our Our robots and our electronics and things like that. So um, you know, I still think it's 10 15 years before we get humans to mars and it'll still be a very select group of people um, I think that the the good news is everybody I've talked to in the kind of space tourism side really thinks that this is a thing that is meant to be like a a very expensive family vacation in the next 10 15 years that the the focus will be on You know, rather than buying a new car or rather than You know adding a home onto your house sort of or else or buying an extra You know a house with an extra room on it that you would save that money and put it towards like the family trip to space Um, and I think that's a that seems like a very reasonable first step Uh, asteroid mining still feels like a waste away to me. I I suspect that the first generation is kind of Uh an IP grab which is to say that um People will be looking for the asteroids that have the interesting minerals Knowing where they are in their orbits and try to use that information to hopefully Then sell to somebody who wants to actually go out there and spend the money the resources to get it because I don't necessarily know that the the mining companies themselves will Will pop up overnight, but somebody who might need that resource Maybe willing to invest in it Yeah, I think I think the the common perception is asteroid mining. Well, that's the easy one, right? You just dig up the rocks and bring it back, but it's still weight It's still, you know, and it weighs more if you're going to bring it back at a appreciable amount It weighs more than than bringing a couple of humans would would weigh Definitely does although it doesn't come with the complexity. Hopefully it's based draft Right, you don't have to you don't have to keep the minerals alive, right? Um, yeah, I what rob, what do you think? I I'm I'm trying to I'm weighing my my my my comments here because I don't want them to be taken wrong Um, I I think this is one area where commercialization will pay off. Oh if you start talking about um Mars colonies and asteroid mining and you know pulling pulling minerals out of the atmosphere of jupiter and things like that Uh There has to be The best way to do that is through commercialized incentive, right? If A company will spend 500 million dollars to go to a place to reclaim natural resources that are worth 10 billion dollars You bet your bottom dollar that is absolutely going to happen and whether it happens with Electronic gathering Robots or with people is yet to be determined But it will be the thing that pushes us forward And it's one area. I believe that the government will lag behind on. I think government agencies will lag behind on If if the intent is research And human expansion into space. That's where the government will lead Right and and so it depends on the fork in the road that you want to go into It is how close we are to getting to where we have to go to Ariel what about you? yeah, uh, so uh, I guess to qualify everything so I was on a national academy of sciences committee on the future of human spaceflight and we were uh explicitly tasked with looking into things like this about um, yeah What does the human of uh, what does the future of human spaceflight look like? um, and um when it comes to landing humans on the surface of Mars our report found that in the extremely Most optimistic of scenarios. We would be landing humans on Mars in the 2050s um, and it was something that really on a personal level profoundly changed my perspective on this because I always viewed it as We went to the moon. We can go to Mars. Mars is a bit harder, but you know, we can do it. No big no big Yeah, I don't feel that way anymore Yeah, uh everyone else is laughing because yeah, it's it's Mars is considerably hard when it comes to landing humans on the surface It's hard with robots. Yeah Yeah, so it's something where um, you know, it's also a trying time for nasa specifically because they continue to be given Flat budgets and our report found that with flat budgets, uh, nasa can't really do much more beyond Humans being in cislunar space, which means, you know, not even landing on the moon just hanging out around the moon um, so it's it's a difficult time right now, um, and it's something where I It's made me personally wish that sort of my generation of millennials and everything um Has more of an attitude of being thankful if we do get a human to land on the surface of Mars in our lifetime Because it's possible, but it's not guaranteed and I I feel sad when I hear a lot of baby boomers and people in older generations Saying that oh, we were supposed to have, you know moon cities by now um, and they seem very bitter about that and I Don't want millennials getting old and saying the same stuff I want them to be thankful if it happens but not bitter because I think there are a lot of people That both on the government side and on the commercial side who are being very vague about these timelines Um, but that said there's a lot of really exciting stuff that can happen in the interim sending a human to orbit mars totally possible on a much shorter time frame Getting humans to be on the surface of the moon again. I think you're seeing a ton of international involvement in that and international Partners leading the way in that and I think that will definitely be you know delivered upon so There will be exciting things that happen in our lifetime, but I want to kind of Get everyone used to the idea that landing humans on the surface of Mars and having Mars cities and anything like that like if it happens while you're alive just like kiss the ground because it's That will be an amazing time to be alive and it's not guaranteed to happen in your lifetime. So Um, you know, it's it I think the thing that's really exciting about it Is that it's going to require a lot of international collaboration? No matter what so whether it's you know a company who's really heavily involved in it or a government agency It's so expensive and so difficult that no one entity can do it alone And so this is where it's going to be really exciting because it's really going to require So much more collaboration than the moon landings ever did Yeah, I I think about the moon landing and I I I don't think it is a simple motivation But there was a unique cross-section of things happening. It wasn't just the cold war But there was you know, like a post war relief a post war boom A space race there was competition There are all these things that that combined to really motivate people to do that And and it's hard to make that happen Nobody made that happen. It just sort of there was a confluence of events. So I wonder sometimes like what confluence of events Could we make happen? I look at some of the things that that Elon Musk does with SpaceX And I'm like, well, maybe that kind of showmanship is one example of that Where you are you play some David Bowie and put a mannequin on a car and suddenly people pay attention That's not the important part of the launch, but it gets people's imagination fired up again You know, it was interesting like I I'm I'm I'm going to admit this and I'm sorry I have to I think I'm probably the only person on the panel here And so I lived through that period and I and I distinctly remember my very first I have two very first early memories one is Bobby Kennedy getting shot and the other is John Glenn and So I watched that whole thing And as a kid it it was the thing that made me get science degrees. There was a thing that pushed me Into school to get a degree in astronomy and degree in mathematics and degree in computer science, which is what I have And I I think if I did not have that In my background I wouldn't have gone into the fields that I did and And I think it's true now and and so Ariel it's it's As as you're as you're feeling sad about hearing people from my generation talk with certain bitterness about we should be living under the ocean and the moon right now I still think that the rate, you know, we talked about this earlier the rate of progression of technology And and advancement it's it is You know, it is exponential and I Don't think it's unreasonable to expect that in your generation you'll be on the surface of Mars It's not it's not unreasonable. It's just it's it's the cautionary thing of it's not guaranteed. It is so Different I I know that we will get there someday. I will say that sort of optimism, but um, I just try and be cautionary about you know I don't want people to see what doesn't happen and not get excited about all the awesome stuff that we are doing I guess it's sort of my message. Yeah Of course, you also don't want to have him hit the brakes either. I mean it the the amount that we know now Is so much more than the amount that we knew when I was in my 20s It's it's you couldn't fill a room of books with it, right and That will only advance and and so we we know about we know more about mars We know what's composed of we know how to get there We know how to like there's a lot of things that we now know And I think with the proper motivation what tom was referring to earlier with with that confidence of events Absolutely, we can do it Yeah, your dog agrees I'm with you Uh, I know you you're talking about memories. One of my earliest memories, uh, was the soya's link up Uh getting pop tarts and getting up early and and watching, you know, cosmonauts and astronauts shake hands in space I didn't get that feeling about space stuff. I was a huge space shuttle fan I remember watching the enterprise take a piggyback ride You know on a on a on an airplane I didn't really get that feeling until The that crazy space crane Uh was confirmed to have have landed It's it's payload successfully on mars like those are the kinds of things that really fire us up and I don't think they're stopping Uh, I I think it's just a matter of pace. Uh, and maybe we don't need to go faster I'm just greedy because you know, I'm getting older too and I I want to see this stuff. I I want to go on those those space tourism packages Hopefully I'll have enough money when in my old age to do it Well, I guess that means we we are finished this up. Uh, thank you guys. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I have This has been really fun Chatting about this stuff. Uh, before we go, let's uh, thank all of our panelists Bob back, uh, if people want to find out more about you follow what you're doing. Where should they go? Uh, I am tweets out loud on twitter and instagram and Monday right ariel. We have an episode Oh, yes. Yeah, monday we have an episode going on tested about your ropa report For a new sci-fi thing that i'm doing with the the tested youtube channel Excellent. Well, go check that out. I love the tested folks that that's fantastic Uh an ariel any anything else you've got to tell people about? Uh, yeah I mean you can find links to all of my many projects on arielwaldman.com That's always a good place to go. Yeah, you can find my book my youtube channel twitter All that stuff that i've referenced today. I think is on there. So That's a great place Rob D'Amillo, thank you again as well. Where can people find you? If you go to about me slash Rob D'Amillo, you'll find links to all my stuff on there And the cto page at the nimblecollective.com, of course, but Excellent, go check that out as well. Thanks to our patrons at patreon.com slash dts that make this possible If you'd like more of these kinds of shows We're only a couple thousand dollars away from our next level that would allow us to do more roundtable Episodes a month join on on the fun or up your pledge and get some of our cool perks like extended shows exclusive columns and more at patreon.com slash dts Our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. We're live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m Eastern 23rd 21 30 now again utc at alpha geek radio and i'm in club.tv and our website is dailytechnewshow.com Back on monday talk of robots with rob reid. We'll see you then This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frogpants.com Time and club hopes you have enjoyed this program Oh, that was so much fun you guys It was great It's not 21 30. It's no the template didn't get changed. Sorry. No, I'm sorry. I should have known that As I was saying it. I was like, that's not right UTC is 2030 I keep UTC in my head That was amazing. Thank you guys so much Ariel Bobak good to meet you guys. Nice to meet you Yeah, uh, thank you guys for doing this and great to meet you. Bobak is No, it was awesome. Hey guys use cameras on my bookshelf for next time. I see everybody's on cameras on their bookshelves You have to hang the enterprise key I do it's yeah, it's a little sad the stand didn't didn't make it so Just hanging out Well, we're just going to hang out on our stream for a little bit uh at the end But if you guys need to take off take off, uh, you've you've given you've been very generous with your time That's always fun. But feel free to stick around when we come up with an amazing title Oh That's yay space It's uh showbot.chatroom.net Um, we're people in our chat room will submit titles while we're while we're going um Regained from space We need science Where's len by the way? I thought len was gonna. Oh, yeah len couldn't make it. He usually illustrates on fridays We have a little live art Mars is hard bitter about moon cities I'm not bitter about moon cities. Wow I yeah, I don't I don't I don't think I was ever really See my my whole space thing revolves around the first columbia launch because we watched that in class I remember the watching the class era I was in my first grade catholic school at st. Cecilia's with mrs. LaHaine And we had to draw pictures of the space shuttle and you know, you do that stupid thing that all kids do You got to post that stupid thing. It's a cute thing because my kid will be doing that I'm sure in a couple of years you you post it on the on the thing But you would have to write we wrote letters to nasa and you know because you're a kid at that age. I guess that was what seven six It's all printed and it's on that piece of paper that has like The line dotted lines in the middle so the kid knows where to aim where the middle of the j starts and you know And all that stuff Ah Space for our title Yeah, I would I would capitalize space though. Yeah, I would like it to be roger two mics Uh Okay, there's one mic on his head and one on his mouth What's happening one? Is it a redundancy? I misunderstood the concept of stereo Actually, I see really running in and out Um I duck out with a little whiteboard and I take out I thought I heard of you say double double a couple of times during the show. No double double is tim hortons It's a two by two Right, isn't that what it is I don't know Four by four animal style What's the protein style where they don't give you the four by it's definitely four by four. You're right four You get in the poll it's a neapolitan, which is where they do the strawberry vanilla chocolate milkshake together Sounds good. Yeah And makes me want to drive over there fortunately, I'm in between I guess four miles of two in and outs one over at the americana And I went over and burbank by the um by the freeway by uh 134 So five I'm still trying to get down the freeways. Yeah, what is it? I've always lived between in and outs now that I think about it not always but uh, we didn't even have him in illinois But we live there's there's one in marina del re and there's one over in culver city Oh, they're not neither ones near they're about the equidistant and when we lived in san rafael It was the same thing there was like one down In marine farther marine city, I think and then there was in and out edge network. Yeah You have to be close to an in and out center Yeah, they only have one in california one in texas wherever the two Facilities are for me processing. You have to be within a day's drive of them. Oh really? Is that the deal? Yeah, they don't freeze the patties. So you have to be Within some short distance of their Okay, they're like factory It's probably one of those places where you drive past on the five and you smell it and you're like there That's probably in and out cow plant I wonder what they do with all the left over parts. I mean, I'm sure they just turn into dog food Like those So by the way, I tell them sarah, you need to get together and you need to buy roger a backdrop like that. Yeah, I get it Good dean My backdrop is a grounded reality Way too grounded I have a three-year-old daughter. I believe me. It's it doesn't it's going to get a lot more Rob, we spent so much money on roger's backdrop. You don't like it We could have done like a green screen like we like went like That's prime idea duvet on that bed. No expense It also doubles as my kid's trampoline apparently Now that would be cool. Just have your kid balsa knowing Oh, yeah, that'd be fun So you keep bouncing A viral sensation. Oh, yeah, just like the the bbc correspondent Actually what made it funny was the wife coming in Oh My wife would just look at her and me and then shrug Well for for a long time When when before ellie was walking she would just sit on roger's lap during the show Yeah, I would she would either be on my shoulder or on my lap. Yeah, she was sleeping would be great. She was quite Then she learned to talk and walk Yeah, well, she hasn't learned the full talking yet. It's still still half gibberish Um That's that's what she got for listening to us I don't know. Maybe that's all she remembers is like in her dreams Did you have you uh, I'll say in the um, like I've seen tweets go by of like Oh, my you know son or daughter like when I talk them in now says like remember to subscribe on youtube because Like what you say like when you're like Huh, you're done. Yeah, so so one of the things I don't know if any of you like and subscribe small kids One of the big trends is of course is the youtube kids kids channel from station or platform and One of the things that a lot of these youtubers that aim at kids Start off with is hey guys. It's for the longest time anytime. She would meet people. She would say hey guys I'm yeah, it's just like ah Or the other one she does is isn't this cute? Isn't this cute because that's what they like because that's like You think like they show things. Yeah, you know, like they they do surprise eggs, which is like a variation on the kindering Yeah, the opening you get a surprise. It's like, oh, is it this cute? And so that's she just points at things Is it this cute? Yeah I'm just going to start doing that when I say when I leave like and subscribe 2030 utc so cute Remember sport of some patreon Oh, we chuckle about it now, but I guarantee you in the least in least a half a dozen years A lot of that stuff is going to creep into Commonplace they just dig to see it half a dozen years. It's happening now. Yeah Hashtag. Oh, yeah, people say hashtag a lot. Oh god I actually don't like that at all Hashtag don't like Your hashtag would break because it's got an apostrophe in it Well, my my fear is the the the twitter league spellings of things like people just forgetting how to spell Oh people Yeah, that was that's a mess there uh, that was uh, I remember there was a there was a student in england Uh, she went to court because her teacher failed her because she wrote a report and it was all like Yeah, and so she's like, no, you can't write it's like no, this is perfectly legitimate way to communicate This is how we communicate. There's an argument that goes that that is true We are what are we french? We don't have an academy That language progresses, you know, and if you go back, you know far enough, you'll see like words Popping into play and and you know, there's an argument I've heard that I want to argue against but I can't really that it's just part of the language evolution. Mm-hmm There's all kinds of examples that I probably can't think of right now if I try but Of words that we say that are perfectly legitimate now that used to be Thought to be ridiculous that you know, they were um You know a lot of americanisms that creep into business are Are uh, okay, okay is a worldwide word now and it was made up It was just made up in the late 1800s. It doesn't even have a real meaning Okay Moving forward that was the one everyone hated moving forward Moving forward the company is going to Yeah, well, we have to we have to adjust our paradigms to the realities of the market Yeah Out of pocket was the one that used to bug me because it's it started meaning I will pay instead of the company paying and then people started to take it to mean I'll be gone Yeah Oh, see when I hear that I I think oh, they won't have their phone with them. I'm out of pocket Oh, that's funny. Yeah That's actually a logical way Thanks much more sense than I'm not available. Yeah All right, uh, well, I I'm publishing the show now. So I guess we can wrap this up. Thanks everybody for hanging out Yeah, thanks. Thanks. You guys are awesome. And uh, if you guys are totally down for it I would love to do it again sometime in the future. Yeah, sir I'm gonna come over to your place that roger and we're always sitting on this bed Please that would be amazing. Yeah, I'll bring it out over for sure Okay SF cohort so that we Oh, we should all meet somewhere in between or down here out there. We can meet in and in and out on the fire Or give me the Harris ranch they have chairs and that tables on the five. Oh, it smells terrible though Oh, because it smells like meat and No, I think you get used to it pretty fast You sit there for like 30 minutes. It'll be fine All right, Harris ranch it is done We could have chosen somewhere nice like, you know morrow bay or anything along because Why really why? Second that emotion there Fine. Well, well, well, I don't know. It's what's nice. Well, what's the San Francisco Yes That's far You come here often enough. Don't you work in the rocket factory? Come on. I was there There's no wednesday. Was there wednesday in oakland? Yeah, exactly. Yeah Oh, you could totally uh kick it kick it up with rob Yeah, you're already I now I'm in oakland. All right. Well, just I'll meet over to your place rob You're welcome to it My dog can like bark at you Yeah I'll do the playing of the dog the whole time is a problem. I just don't be paying attention to you guys. I just play Oh, there's a dog Cool, um, awesome. So let me stop the live feed. Thank you everyone for watching. Remember monday rob read