 panel discussion DEI for business growth challenges and opportunities I would like to invite on stage on that and I'll request you all to kindly welcome them with a proper round of applause for this one I love that OCD is coming into play even before the conversation starts fantastic. All right So Thank you. Thank you E4M team for having us here This is a topic very close to my heart for multiple reasons the first of course I think as a woman it is something that has been in lot of discussion recently like we discussed as a group as well and Also, because I think more and more as we see the world around us We are finding people who are diverse We are finding lives which are very diverse from the way we have lived in the past and perhaps as we go ahead It will become only more and more different, you know, so we thought it's an interesting topic for us to Sort of wrap our minds around and I think the first question that I would like to ask our panelists is You know, what does DEI really mean because there is a very In a way narrow definition where most of the people think that it's it's just about men versus women And if you've solved that issue we've solved for DEI Does that really mean that and let me start with you Narayan, you know as the chief strategy officer Maybe what's what's your view on what does DEI really mean? Thank you. I think I'm actually going to take off my dentsu hat for a minute There is another hat that I've been wearing for the last one year I've been in the social sector I Function as the chief strategy officer for the National Foundation of India and I've immersed myself very deeply into the social impact sector and I'm almost militant now about this topic right and I'm going to say some uncomfortable things It almost feels like we are so so shallow in our industry over here with how we Approach this perspective this topic Exactly like you said, I mean we look at the surface level and we go on and we believe It's enough to frame the policy and put out some you know one day for change kind of initiatives and be done with it even just within The country that we live in right now and we ape so much of what the West puts down as DEI initiatives and policies and frameworks and perspectives Geographic diversity neurolinguistic diversity socio-economic diversity community caste I mean I would have loved for something like the the Dallat Chamber of Commerce to have a voice here right now today, right? But we're all probably of the same Color orientation perspective framework over here And sometimes I wonder if we spend enough time even Looking at whether we have enough self-awareness about how we are approaching this And then get to the question of how do we actually frame the question of what do we mean by diversity? What do we mean by equity which is about principles of fairness? regardless of what you're where you are on the diversity spectrum and about inclusiveness which actually Probably the one letter that we pay the least attention to So maybe we just need to take a really hard look at ourselves in the first place to see if we even are aware of the spectrum That diversity is about the true meaning of what equity can bring to the table And what do we actually do about being inclusive, right? Sorry, I didn't mean to to be Make people uncomfortable right off the bat, but I actually no actually I didn't intend to do that No, no, that's that's perfect now and because I do strongly feel in another area I think as a mother that I want to talk about is also You know the diversity in learning, you know our educational system is designed in a way which sort of rewards Only one kind of learning and that's possibly not going to hold us well in the future So when we start looking at diversity and therefore, how do we build solutions? Which bring in equity which allow us to include people in in growth for everyone It is going to be very important for us to be able to identify and and sort of address these things Follow me. Let me let me go to you and ask this question because you know as a brand custodian in a way You have been looking at different aspects of diversity trying to identify groups or cohorts who are different Who have needs which are different and and then try to create solutions with them? How has that worked out for you? So I just I'm so glad that you started off with this question and about diversity and Since 2015 onwards, we have been working In our communication and internally keeping diversity at the core, but like Narayan said I think we all have a very myopic view about diversity and from a brand perspective, especially from a skincare brand perspective Men women we are the largest subset. It's a huge large number to be addressed While in the course of journey from 2015 onwards, I think I happened to work on a campaign with asset attack survivors Why I wouldn't get much into the details because we have time constraint because we were a skincare brand and we wanted to address One extra layer of skincare other than oily Sensitive and dry skin and that's when we figured out the asset attack and the burn victim when I work there I realized I was working with a lot of NGOs and I realized that every year around 500 to 700 cases are registered and Around 200 to 50 are the ones who survive No, that is a very small number for representation as such but the question is do we need to represent it? Is it important? Until unless the number of such diversity group is big It does not get the focus of often media also And at the same time is it enough to talk or is it enough to do something for them in terms of your product or service? offerings as well That was a big question. And how do you take that forward? So? that made us think that Diversity just not this we can't only focus a diversity when the group is huge and They need a representative even smaller groups at various size combination need representation Second point what he touched upon is when you look at equity and inclusiveness. I think the biggest problem is we While addressing that we often work from a space of sympathy and not empathy Yes Because the moment you work from a space of empathy it will require a lot of self-actualization It requires a lot of listening and Therefore coming up with solution it cannot operate as a society as brands as media representatives XYZ if you were talking of diversity inclusiveness Equity you can't operate from a space of sympathy. That's when it gets into a very studio space You have to be empathetic enough to understand listen address the issue if you can and As a brand I also feel not necessary that I will be representing all of it But the ones that I want to represent and talk about should be strong enough and should be inculcated at the core of business and Should be able to try and you know I should be able to manifest it through my product my services my communication and everything that I do around it Perfect. I love this sympathy versus empathy and I'm going to circle back to it But before we go there I want to ask Vishesh a question Vishesh you represent a category Which is typically in all our minds, you know very male, you know Papa Maybe the husband is taking care of finances and That sector I mean that that's one side of it, which is how the consumer thinks Today if we have a banking concave, you know any financial concave you you go there and it's all men There is very little diversity even within those men. So so tell us a bit about your sector You know, how are you looking at the is is that important is is that relevant or what should be done? So good evening to you. Aditi my co-panelist and the audience. I hope you're having an insightful evening The problem of being asked to speak in the end is that your co-panelist have already covered the ground And you're left with nothing to add to what they've already said Fortunately or functionality, that's what happens with me every panel, you know, I'm asked in the end you know, but this time I Asked chat GPT. So that is something which no one has covered so far So I was just you know, while coming I asked chat GPT that you know, what according to you is Di I what do you understand of the II so chat GPT responded Since I am an artificial intelligence. I'm supposed to have no views on di I But I can share the information which I believe is relevant and What chat GPT said that di I is not just a moral responsibility Problem being at the leadership level in our corporate sector We tend to think of it as a moral responsibility rather than just think of it as a business Ecosystem, which we need to build though things are changing. I'm not saying, you know, it's still relevant But things are changing at a very slow pace. Okay, so coming back to our industry Fortunately or unfortunately, you know That's the harsh truth that in financial world, you'll see a lot more mail the products even Being paced by mail to the mail Even all the insurance ads which you see talk about, you know, how he would have left probably a bigger insurance for kids and family and everything so See when you look at di I you Cannot just talk about Having the token representation that okay, if I'll just have couple of women in my team I'll just fulfill the responsibility di I is looking at the whole ecosystem Which also includes probably let's say people with physical disabilities, you know, nobody talks about them I mean at least I have not seen any ad any Browsher any marketing material promoting any insurance policy or any product specifically for the physically disabled We you know class similarly, you know transgenders, you know, I haven't come across anyone selling anything to them or for them so When you look at diversity when you look at Inclusivity it has to be both from within the company and to your consumer also That's when you look at the whole ecosystem and that's probably Very far-fetched thought right now, but at least let's start talking about it so that you know The sooner we reach there the better. Yeah, these are my two cents. Thank you So I like you bought up charge you pity the hot hot button for a lot of us nowadays But it's interesting that, you know, we somehow think that technology will solve all issues And while technology could be a route to help us enable people who come from, you know Divers backgrounds who come from very different kind of opportunity spaces But it will not give us a solution unless we as people I would say both in terms of business and as a society Sort of take some steps. I thought I'll share an interesting trivia with all of you Which might yet surprise you, you know, when we start talking about DEI We do a study with Gen Z and one would assume that Gen Z is very awake. They're very aware Very savvy We were doing a study with Gen Z where Gen Z women were asking their their colleagues in terms of a Question which was about how many of you would want to earn more than your partner Yeah, this is women who are doing MBA So you can you can already imagine that they are a very exclusive set and they're talking to colleagues who are also doing MBA Yeah, and almost 80% of the women in in that group Said we would not like to earn more than our partner. So this this sort of Made us step back and think about the fact that DEI is not just a point that we raise in in discussions like this It's it's a very deep-rooted societal thing Sometimes we don't understand from where are our view on certain topics is coming And that's why I want to go back to what follow me referred Sympathy versus empathy. We all make the right sounds. We all say yes, of course, we should do this But are we really moving in that direction and and how do we check whether brands are Really looking at this probably wishes it will happen when we start seeing whether brands are looking at it as a business imperative Follow me. You've done some initiatives like you were mentioning as it attack What is the impact on business that you see how do you how do you justify it or or how do you sort of align? Community of marketers to say that look this is not just a good thing moral thing But this is also a relevant thing from a business point of view So I'll take this opportunity to tell you that as I said, we've been doing multiple campaigns One such is with asset attack survivors and I truly believe it's not one but many that you do so the last one for example in this In the same breath is what we did with an IPL association we associated with KKR nitriders and The campaign that I launched at that point of time was called being equal Now there was this very big question. Why are you associating with IPM? You your end consumer is female I looked at it from a business perspective I'll just give you three reasons why I was doing that and then you can circle back that, you know Why what was the manifestation of the brand so far? So a We are in the FMCG sector and it's a skincare brand. There are three different forms of sales modern trade this general trade and e-commerce and Joy personal care is a brand which is a challenger brand in this day There is yet a lot of people to know just like whether a man or a woman in India today I still believe the awareness of joy has to rise. I was at the cusp of that So while I was taking the sponsorship of KKR nitriders and Focusing on West Bengal as a market It allowed me to associate with my business partner in a very stronger way because the entire ecosystem of sales and distribution is dominated by me and That helped me get a lot of leverage into doing various activities That entail my trade partners to associate with me to support with me because they are men. They're watching cricket Now when I was taking the spots on TV They're very high GRP and high TVR It allowed me to get the awareness factor of the brand much ahead of the curve because obviously It's it's one of the highest rated property in the country that helped me to tick off the index of awareness the campaign that I had designed was called being equal wherein it's it where we you know showcase the three important cricketers and The narrative of the creative was why is it that? In the women when the women play There isn't the celebration much Okay, how are you game? It's not sure me what I did not have to get him to kill I do it in our country cricket is a religion, but when it comes to the field the kind of Celebration that you see around when men play and women play. There's a huge difference. Why is it that and a narrative was not a Man versus woman again. It was done in a manner where said it is the conditioning of the society Which is not made us appreciate sports in general for women. Why is it and we left that? last two years we have after The top of mind recall of joy has gone more than 48 percent I've been able to have a growth in each of my segment of You know e-commerce modern trade and GT the penetration level with my dealer distributors has gone up to at least 35 percent Okay, because they recognize me more and the last thing that I felt was why shouldn't we democratize sports? We are going into a zone where we have to get out of democratic targeting to Psychographic targeting when I have a property which is giving me a 40 percent Split of women viewers at the same time it is giving me an 18 percent stick 18 minutes of stickiness Which is not a bad bet so therefore when I take being a woman's brand I take up IPL and I have and you know circle it back to why did I do this? Apart from DEI this is how the DEI Decision of mine has helped me in the business decision It had three to four legs, which I could cover through one association The campaign spoke of being equal and as love would have it in the next five months We CCI announced WPN and there was a equal pay announcement I don't know whether we have been able to do this because of our campaign, but we definitely had a Role to play in the chapter at that point of time Absolutely, so I think that that's that's sort of giving us a lesson somewhere that if brands can think about DEI Not from a sympathy view, but but in terms of really what could it mean in in the world and how could it change things? I think if they pick it up as a promise that there is there is potential in terms of driving business as well Narayan circling back to you you spoke about a larger platform in terms of you know looking at Social sector and and how do you see this whole area coming alive in the social sector? Because it's again a topic everybody talks about we are all very woke about it But is it really making any changes at the grassroot level? So actually connect connect it back to business as well or unless you absolutely Later, you know, I think between polami and the wish They covered a few points on the spectrum of evolution if you will of how as Industry and not our industry alone as industry. We are evolving it so from complete ignorance whether willful or otherwise We've went to representation Hopefully beyond the token representation that wish ish was hoping for to Empathy, but we need to push a lot farther a lot harder Because ultimately without people who have the lived experiences from which the solutions will come We cannot best be superficial about it, right? Like one of the panelists in the previous session was saying as a man I never use lipstick and I don't know that I had to use lipstick. I need to store it in the fridge Right only a woman could know that right in the same way only a person who has survived an asset attack Or is a burn victim would know what skin care routines are needed for Someone like that or I don't have a disability. So I don't know if I will stumble if I cross this threshold over here But the more we bring people with the lived experiences into our teams The better equipped will be even for business growth because then it's not sympathy. It's not empathy It's from lived realities that we are then able to spot business opportunities, right? And I'll connect it back to the social sector, right? I mean one of the Big big lacunae in the social sector having worked in it for the last year is The lack of resources. I mean the passion the purpose in the will can take things that far But the resources that industry has if we were to come it Fraction of those resources to social progress We'd be somewhere else, right and and we forever talk about innovation There's no innovation shortage in the world, but there is progress shortage And if only we could look at business through the lens of delivering progress It's something that then at then so we are now very actively saying we have to evolve from what Benjamin Franklin said in the 1800s saying you know do well by doing good To actually now you have to do well by doing right and it's far tougher to do what is right Right, but if you can commit to it then what you will actually see is Growth can happen because you will deliver social impact. It's not an addendum It's not an accessory. It's not a side effect. You deliver social impact. You will deliver growth as well That's the focus we are looking to move towards as well I want to go back to what you said in the middle that you know Do we then get people with different experiences as a part of our team and and does that? Then help us build a vision for the future, which is not based on you know, what I have heard but something which has been lived and and therefore a more real and Vishesh I want to ask your point of view on this. I think technology can actually enable a lot of this today We have become comfortable working across locations. We have become comfortable working with people from different countries Yeah, and quite often there are there are times you never meet the person in reality in physical terms But but you know the person because because you are engaging with them You are possibly seeing how they live their lives and and what is the opportunity there for us to create shared Experiences which could help us drive this agenda further so see Fundamentally my you know, I have a problem with how DII is being spoken about in general So just taking you from what follow me mentioned that, you know, BCCA said now henceforth Women will also get the same pay as men. Okay, and we were happy. We have achieved DII But was it just about why do we pitch it as man versus woman every time every time we talk about DII? We just say, you know, women are not getting this men are getting this woman should get this the moment they feel We have got this. Okay, it's done. I would have been more happy if BCCA I would have promoted, you know, some sort of tournaments for physically Disabled some sort of tournaments for you know promotion for Transcenders They should have done those sort of things also. Okay secondly, you know Come into technologies of a side of it while of course earlier. There were challenges that probably, you know You can't reach out to different places if you have to work you have to be in metro cities or public big cities and You know, not everyone could come to those sort of Places and that's why a lot of people from our socials that Could not connect with those opportunities and this I do not just mean women I also mean people from different cast and create people from different far-off areas if someone from Northeast, okay, typically they don't get that kind of acceptance You know what you usually get so in a virtual world and Probably pandemic gave that lead to us that you know, we can create those hybrid hybrid Work ecosystem where in people from different cast create probably can come and join the mainstream You know just I start secondly apart from This you know if you look at how the innovations are happening, you know How products are being proposed say for example, I'll just give you in India while you look at financial products, okay They are mostly pitched in a certain way to a certain Community or people in general, but just quoting an example in Muslims. They typically do not Invest in products which have interest income, okay Now just a very very small example to highlight a bigger picture But nobody is thinking of creating the kind of products Which will help them, you know, take care of their religious beliefs as well as you know Also make sure that they can invest, okay That's why a lot of you know, this is not just a random Theory but Because I speak to a lot of people for my consumer, you know research related stuff a lot of Muslims Do not participate in stock market because of this particular reason now Technology can help us create those kind of products Which will probably you know like how we have integrated with US stocks, you know, there are platforms I won't name them right now, but there are platforms which help us invest in stock US stocks Can we create some sort of ecosystem so that? People you know can invest in those kind of products Let's say from Middle East and those and technology can definitely make it possible. So, you know, these are different ways these are different Innovative ways we have to look at to cater to everyone's need and But before all of this, we need to have that mindset that DII is not just about man versus woman It's about taking everyone along Building for everyone providing for everyone. That's probably would be the right start. I would say. Thank you Thank you, Vishesh and now we have run out of time on this exciting topic So I hope as a panel we've managed to get you all thinking what DI really means, you know Should we widen the definition and perhaps also like Narayan said look inwards, you know What is our perspective as a human being? What are we looking at and how can we then connect it to what we do and and make business? Solutions look at business ways of working which will make it meaningful in the long term and not just a tick mark Thank you all for a great discussion. Thank you Thank you so much. I'll request you all to take a picture together And as we're doing that, I'll request Mr. Atul Gandhi senior vice president sales YCOM 18 sports to kindly help us You are gratitude to all the speakers for that fabulous session I'm sure you'll you all enjoyed that conversation as much as we did Let's have round of applause for all of them. You want to stay back on the stage for a bit All of you just one minute If you can do the honors, thank you so much Thank you