 Perfect. Are we live? Will you give me the link, Julian, please, here in the chat? And I'll make you back coast. I'll give it to you. No problem. So cool. Got it? I'll start reading the policy first, Julian. Okay. We don't sound like meetings involve participation by industry competitors, and it is the intention of the leaders foundation to conduct all of these activities in accordance with applicable antitrust and competition laws. It is therefore extremely important that attendees did submitting genders and be aware of and not participate in any activities that are prohibited under applicable U.S. state federal or foreign antitrust and competition laws. Examples of types of actions that are prohibited at leaders foundation meetings and in connection with leaders foundation activities are described in the leaders foundation and trust policy. If you have questions about this message, please contact your company council or if you're a member of the leaders foundation, if you've reached contact, and read up the group, participate in any activities that are prohibited under applicable U.S. state federal or foreign antitrust and competition laws. Sorry. What's going on here? This is an echo, Julian. I was playing it, so I stopped for now. Yeah. Hyperlegical community creates a safe and welcoming community for more information. Please visit our hyperlegical code of conduct. It's a perfect welcome, everybody, to this meeting and it's last of 2021. And it's a pleasure to introduce my friend, Surya Shankar, to have this speech, to close in style this very rewarding year for ourselves. So, my friend, Sage is yours, starts your speech. Thank you, Andrea. Okay, can you hear me? Thank you, Andrea. Thank you, Julian, for the opportunity for Tota to share our thoughts with this Opelsus community. I've been looking at the hyperlegia trade fair and specialist group, followed it for the last couple of years. I'm impressed with the continued involvement and active participation and active contribution back to the community. So, I'm really pleased that we are given a chance to visit. So, with that, let me just start the slide. But I want to acknowledge a couple of my colleagues who are on this meeting today. Chris Sanaman. Chris Sanaman is one of the board of advisors to Tota. He has been very much involved for the day of conception. And Kelly Chua, who is kind of for marketing and communication within our operational team based off Singapore. So, Chris is based off Netherlands, Kelly is based off Singapore and I myself is based off Singapore. Let me just put the slides up. I have about probably say about 20 to 30 minutes worth of monologue to give. I'll try to keep it a minimal. But I'm hoping to have a more interactive conversation given the nature of what Tota is all about. So, having said that as a expectation, what is the topic today? It's about an inclusive journey towards a shared disk. And this is all about digitizing the trade for everyone. I will explain this inclusive journey and the shared destiny as we go forward. The background to it of this whole existence of Tota comes from realization that why digitalization has been important since especially in the days of yesterday's blockchain. Many of the projects that we started in the last five, six years have been focused on single-step product solving. They're basically using technology to solve one part of the problem. They haven't really solved the whole problem. Or even when they have solved the whole problem, the adoption and embracing of the technology and network has been not optimal. It's suboptimal. And most of the development happens in isolation. And it's an insight in process for large MNCs. And many of the great work done by the startups are focused on developing hype. And I'm not blaming them because that's how the economy works nowadays. We're all looking at what is the valuation of a startup then about the value addition of a startup. That's a challenge. So on one hand, the great startups are focused on valuation. The big MNCs and large banks are focused on insight in progress, process where they actually are solving creations. And we have a lot of noise. We have a lot of press releases, announcements, projects. I've been involved in many of them for many years. But none of them have gone to a real production level use of digitizing trade end to end. And that needs to be fixed for us to get to the digital Nirvana. When COVID hit, we all thought that we are going to get to the Nirvana faster. We thought digitization is going to be necessary for people to do business. But even then, the world and the digitalization people will be a full shot of achieving that. And then we looked at it, the people behind Toyota, the problem of why is it not happening? We said, okay, the commercial entities are focused on valuation. The banks are focused on their own little competition. The multinationals are focused on their own priorities. Nobody has really looked down to the common man or the SMEs, MSMEs who are moving the trade engine and who need most help. We have seen time and again data that shows that there was a trade finance gap of $1.6 trillion in 2018. Now it's probably about at least 10% to 15% more. And we are expecting it to become $2.6 trillion in 2025. And that is affecting mostly the SMEs and MSMEs. And they are lagging behind because there is lack of digitization, which could in turn have fixed the perceived risk of financing and trade. So that's sort of the background to where Toyota got involved. Since we find that there are challenges in approaching the problem from a technological startup or a big MNC, big bank, or even the multilateral organizations who have their own challenges or their own obligations to take care of that stakeholders, the politicians, the governments that run. And that's not easy to be running United Nations. You're always trying to make peace. So we say, okay, let's take a think-tank approach to having the world digitize and visualize. So let's create a think-tank of innovation needs and take the best of the people from across the various segments of global trade, be it a banker, be it a large ABCD trainer, or be it a producer at the end of the food chain, part of the food chain. And everybody in between, the shippers, the customs officers, everybody, let's pick the thought leaders in each of the community and bring them without the bias of their corporate responsibilities and goals. And let's make an intellectual conversation and how do we move this needle towards the right direction in a positive and effective way. The result is sort of a think-tank that is focused on advancing and accelerating the digitization, both trade and in particular trade finance. And net result, we should not forget, it is not about make money for the sake of make money, but it is about having global growth, having inclusive, sustainable development of the world. It's important that we all do not forget that larger goal of life. And the vision for Toyota is to be a driver force. We create a movement. We do not want this to be a think-tank. Think-tank is for intellectuals to come up with their own ideas. But we want to create a global movement of community bigger than everything open source has achieved or to wither with the open source movement to realize the last-minute adoption. I mean, I'm using the last-minute adoption, which people of my age will remember each with telco terminology. The challenge of getting the copper to the house has been the problem, had been the problem. Connecting inter-city is international. That's not a big issue. But connecting to the last minute because of the solutions, because of maintenance, because of challenges. And the same thing is true for trade digitization. How do we help an individual trader with five people or six people in his office to embrace digital technology without having to worry about this bank wants you to connect to this blockchain network. That bank wants you to connect to the other blockchain network. And your buyer is on completely different blocks. That's a challenge. They just need to press a button like the way they pick up the phone and make a deal. In developing a larger and altruistic goal, we need to define the guiding principles. And these are the four sets of principles that we develop or foundation, we build, told up. We want to be any kind of people with integrity as a number one in what we communicate. We want to be completely open to ideas, open to technologies, open to competition, open to various commercial entities. But we objective, we remain objective in what we want to deliver, what we want to advise to everybody. We want to collaborate with everybody and focusing on complementarity as supposed to be recreating or reinventing the wheels. We want to be inclusive while we continue to innovate. These are the guiding principles that actually drive through that today. Now, how do we approach this is a very busy slide, but fundamentally, we want to work with on the left of the screen are the commercial entities on the right on the multilateral organizations, be it a developmental financial institution like a World Bank, Asia Development Bank, or Trade Development Bank of Eastern Southern Africa, or industry association like Baft, or a multilateral body like a WTO, or an entity like ICC. We want to work with them because they're all doing great work trying to get commonality in the legal member jambos as well as the legal implementation of contracts that is really critical of global trade. But we also want to work with the commercial people, the big banks, the big ABCDs, as well as that produces lead in Australia or Angola or Zimbabwe. We want to cover working with the government. Why? We need to support the acceleration. The acceleration has not happened. The commercial approaches or efforts to accelerate digitization has not delivered the results in the last 18, 19 months when we expected. So, we need to have a look at the problem slightly differently. How do we do that? More consultative and in terms of without having a bias. How do we stimulate the trade? How do we explain what is present, what is not present? How do we persuade people by giving out a hand? How do we help the people who help the hand? If there is a SME in Angola doing trade, he is serviced by a single nephew of his or somebody, a small service provider who fixes the computer, connects the network and basic takes. How can that person help the trade or the SME to digitize? And that is the kind of altruistic vision that we have in that. So, we need to include everybody in the ecosystem to help them to do that. And we understand that there will be commercial priorities. There will be issues. But if we keep repeating the process, we will get it fixed. And what do we do at least to begin with? To begin with is about communicating with discussion papers, white papers. How do we evaluate standards readiness if BAFTA releases some standards? If ICC comes up with their standards, how do we make sure that a particular technology or a particular environment or a particular financing is ready for those standards? And we want to be an independent body to advise the SMEs and above to do that. And to help FinTech companies to do feasibility studies on how do they transform their product word maps to integrate with the rest of the world. And at some point of time, we want to get it defined by giving certification as a nonprofit even as a decision to say, yes, these people are ready to connect with this set of rules. In terms of technology, though we talk a lot about blockchain because blockchain, we have a lot of expectation on connecting people and connecting networks. But let us not forget about the importance of robotics, automated vehicles, IOT. Fundamentally, I would be tracking and tracing things from the temperature of a refrigerator container to the details of why it is what. And then AI, the KYC process, none of the financial institutions have been able to fix it are the regulatory authorities haven't been able to accept a completely automated AI process for KYC. How do we actually get AI to become acceptable, to cover as much as possible on KYC process to be automated? Every bank time and again, we talk today, Chris and I, we had a meeting with the bank. They say they basically are replicating the paper process online and they get a copy of the paper in file just so that the regulator will never be putting a black mark on them when there comes time for audit. So we need to make smart or better use of technology including AI. Now, we talked about what we deliver, a whole set of things. Now, how do we enable digital adoption, an adoption of your business to this technology? A combination of publishing unidirectional white papers are a two-way discussion paper and publishing technical tools, use cases, how to guides. But more importantly, actually we want to start running global summits that actually bring in people who are playing the digitization efforts. We want to bring people face to face to discuss without the bureaucracy of certain other organizations. As part of it, what we have gone so far is the unidirectional ones. Matt O'Vrontiment is a former standard chartered head of trade finance, global trade finance, and I published a paper on TXF, trade finance global on more of a, how do we actually change minds in kind of an attitude? And Andrea Frazini, who is the co-host of this today's meeting, he is an advisor to me and Tora from day one. And he wrote his perspectives on how do we make the quantum leap happen with open source DLP, which he passionately believes. And Chris Ranaman, who is on the call today, who is with ING right now, and he is talking about how do we accelerate the trade innovation, both in MSCs as well as in the larger corporations. So we are already creating these papers and getting feedback and that will come into discussions as we move forward. And it is not just what I, Chris, Andrea, imagined that we publish it, but we want to curate the top-tier content that exists in the world to make it available, of course, with all the corporate laws and everything else. Get the materials, resources, all the original thinking, including the data, the data of physical and financial data and supply chain, and publish it in a way that it actually work towards global development, growth and prosperity. Again, never forget the biblical. And digitize how that trade is an example of that. This is actually going to be a Wikipedia of sorts hosted by Tora. It will have all of these elements of basically a place to go for an MSME, SME globally. And within about two or three years, we want to remake it to a Nirvana stage. It will take some time. It will take some time, but we will get there. And it will have static content, it will have dynamic content, but you also have people sitting behind to answer your calls or chats to help you. Tora is not run by commercial interest. It will be run with a board of governance, overseeing how Tora is run financially as well as initially. And they'll have a board of advices which are basically pro bono kind of efforts. And we'll talk about the sort of people that we already have as a board. And these board of advices will focus on global engagement with multilateral bodies with various other initiatives that are happening around, as well as have an oversight of community of contributors. Community of contributors just compared with the open source foundation, open source effort. Each and every one of you are valuable as a community member in achieving this digital Nirvana. To make it all happen, we need to have an operational management. It's going to be a very bad word steam that we're going to be managing the details of how do we get things published, how do we maintain a digital library that is manageable, usable, usable, you know, the corporate memory would like to call it. And delivery of specific instances of training, enabling people, getting, making sure that they're qualified, certified. And then of course, the fundamental requirement of any organization to make sure of digital and financial structure is well run and well managed. Andrea, there are some things I see some numbers on the chat. Should I stop now or should I just continue until later? Pardon me, sorry. There's a back connection. I couldn't hear what you were saying. You know, on the chat, I saw some numbers. Do you want me to pass and take a look at the questions or do you want me to continue until I finish it? No, I think we should look at the questions later on when you finish the presentation. Let's go on until the end. Maybe you can also give the words to the algorithm of tenants when you finish it. Okay, good. Okay, so I'll continue and then we will answer all the things on the chat by the time you finish the presentation. The current board of advisors, our governors, the board of governors, this is probably the more traditional responsibility besides myself. My background, by the way, I didn't introduce myself, 30-35 years in the industry. My great hat tells you my age, primarily from the night industry. We'd write a code for banks when I was young and some of it probably still running. But in the last 20-23 years, I've been more on sales and management side of business. In the last 10 years in particular, I've been focused on startups more as a mentor, invested in startups, including trade finance and blockchain-based companies. But right now I am also focused on having a more sustainable structure to achieving the digital marijuana. The members of the board right now, you know, you're not familiar with a lot of the last names. Awori Michael is the WGC of Trade and Development Bank of Houston, South Africa. Tom Collins is the Chief Risk Officer in Trade Flow Capital Management. Tom James is the CEO of Trade Flow Capital Management. Trade Flow Capital Management is a Singapore headquartered entity who is now being a cred buyer, a London-listed company. They are basically financing SME and MSME trades, high six digits and low seven-digit numbers of values. And they are very innovative. They depend on fintech a lot to make this transaction happen. So they're financed with a strong fintech background. Alexander Malaka is a Canadian based out of Toronto. He runs a consulting. He's been running this consulting for trade finance for a lot of time from years. Chris Sonderman is on the call today in the meeting with us. He is from ING. Currently he has been an innovation leader with various European banks, European headquartered banks in the last twenty-twenty-three years of his career. Far, very far, I had a thought leader and a close friend of mine. Michael Vantamadis used to be the head of trade finance. He's kind of chartered right now. He's setting up his next venture out of the UK. But people like Andrea Frazini has been a close friend and advisor to Toyota from day one. So to me, I look at the fiduciary responsibilities of the board differently than the strategic responsibilities. Andrea is very much part of the strategic team. Now, in terms of funding as a non-profit, as a source of fund, we depend on international organizations like the WTOs, World Bank and the United Nations and the multilateral banks and bodies like ADBs, TVBs. And of course, we are also not going to rule out that the large commercial entities and multinational banks have no interest in the altruistic gold. So we are in discussion on them. Every day, we expect all of these people to be on world oversight and develop this into a sustainable, independent body. And as well as we have, it's my thought leaders who come on board to support this entity until we get to a stage of solid funding. Besides the papers that we published, I showed you earlier, two of the papers that are coming out at the end of the year, one on finance and technology match made in Africa, which is part of a two-part publication on FinTech and trade finance in Africa. Africa, as many of you would know, is in the stage that they can actually leapfrog all of us, including Asia, Asia, leapfrog the previous technology cycle, Africa is going to go completely leapfrog in the next cycle. In 10 years time, they're probably going to be seen as the one square doctor technology the most. And the second paper is going to be on FinTechs. How do we enable the non-backed financial institutions to help them in doing trade finance? It's important that people like trade flow capital and others like them, there are many of them, they become successful and they will depend a lot on technology to reduce the perceived risk to the real risk, which is much more profitable. And case study on that. 2022, the plans will be launching the Digitized Hall.Trade, it will be coming live, they expect somewhere in Q1, by Q2, Q3, it should get to some critical months. And we are about to announce some specific projects, but the DFS and the other bodies that will come out post Christmas are in the new year. And we are expanding our board of directors, there are several persons with global influence as well as global accountability and credibility, they are there to be coming on board. And most importantly, one of my key reasons to be talking to this group is growing our community of contributors. I have huge respect for the open source community and I'm looking at huge level of contribution from this community of leaders. And we will also have a full-time support staff to administer and help with this community of contributors as well as supporting the boards. The action that I'm requesting from the team is please get involved. Trade digitization is not the job of just a few feedback startups. It's everyone of us who believes in this bigger group. And make sure your voice is heard, find the communities, as open source community people, you know your voice is important. And I'm asking and requesting you to become a member of the Toyota community. Registry of interest on a website, our current website registration is minimal, but we will follow up. Come end of this year, we will have a full page for community registration as well as for the registration. Your level of interest, you can specify what you want to get involved, but you don't want to get involved all the details. But right now, any level of interest we would communicate, my team would communicate with you to make sure that Toyota develops to be an organization of value and importance and give returns back to the community as well. We want to be a moment, we will be a moment, not just a think time, without a pause. Okay, Vipin, you have a question? Yeah, Vipin, is that you? Yes, sir. Oh my friend, welcome, let's see you by the way. Oh yeah, but you know, I've been in a state of dis-taboying, as they say in French. So, you know, it's a very hotening to see Subra's vision and your vision and all the guys talking about Toyota. And in terms of the leapfrogging of business, you know, we know that Nigeria, for example, has launched its own CBDC and the reason I'm bringing this up is because trade finance does not exist in a vacuum. You have to be very careful to develop only the, you know, to look only at that particular silos. So, you have to broaden your approach a little bit, especially, I mean, I do see that you brought up the AML KYC, which is definitely, you know, one of the functional aspects of any ecosystem. But the other aspects are, for trade finance, what I see are the rails to capital markets. And actually, I'm speaking as the head of the capital markets thing in Hyperledger. There are several other bridges that you need to build before the system can take off. The other ones, which I can see are the payments side of things and ways in which contracts can be solidified on any ecosystem, right? I mean, not just in trade finance, but also in other silos. But the same technology can be applied everywhere. It's not just the technology, but, you know, it has to be part with legal and other things. So, I'm also involved in the interoperability working group in DCGI, Digital Currency Global Initiative. So, I would ask you guys to either contribute or look at some of the stuff that we are producing. So, that's great. And thank you. And that's, you know, I'm going to mute myself and listen to others. We've been thanks for that. I mean, I'll definitely make sure that I'll follow up for further conversation with you. I noted down on the DCGI part of it. I definitely want to discuss and learn as well as, you know, get the maximum value to the community back. Thank you. Yeah, very good insights. You know what actually, because you were there, when I think about silos and what we were planning, we actually planned to do, yeah. So, you see very good topics. You brought here payments. One of these ones actually, as you see when you talk about inclusion, when you talk about accessibility, you also have to think on giving this micro small and medium prices the means to access payments instrument. Payments are big pain points for micro small and medium prices to access international trade. So, that's, that's indeed one of our intentions with Delta. We'd love to hear the opinion on some of the others. Also, Julian, feel free to take the word and express your thoughts now. Julian, are you there? Yes, I'm here. That was great. No, it was good. Actually, maybe you want to take down the thing so we can talk in the presentation. No, that was that was great, great presentation. So, Julian, I definitely, I hope this is not just a tremendous presentation. The biggest nightmare of initiative like that is to make sure that it goes outside of my powerpoint deck. So, I'm looking at the people like you as, you know, for guidance as well as to say, hey, Subra, have you taken sort of this kind of question too, right? I don't want to ever assume that I know what I'm doing too. No, no, no. So, yeah. So, how do you see, you know, how do you see, are you going to have meetings or what's, how are you going to progress this? What's the, what's the, and what are the compelling events, the kind of things that you see to make your master? The compelling events right now are going to be very difficult to begin with, right? So, right now, I want to create, you know, compelling contents. People will spend time and respond to it, given how busy we are all on their basis. So, there are a few people about, I would request Chris to add his thoughts, he's on the line. But, you know, to bring that vision, we need to do something to show people that we are actually doing, walking the talk, right? And walking the talk is delivering on what we request others to do, contribute. So, we will do that. So, that's the first step. And then the next step is in discussion with specific multilateral bodies on specific projects. Most of them are still in this question, so I don't want to sort of steal anybody else's thunder because we just want to be the fighters organization. You could probably be able to speak about some of those things in January on delivering on some of the international plans, right, to help things happen, make things happen. And then digitize how that trade will be a very visible digital entity that people can look up to. It will be the Wikipedia and go to place for trade digitization, at least. I do not, again, the key is complementarity is important for us. We do not want to be creating competition like the way commercial startups do. We want to look at who's doing what, how do we actually work with them, we do not agree on wheels, reinvent wheels and compete for the wheel market, right? People just need to be moving. The woman needs people to move. No, no, I think you're right. So, and that's been a challenge. It's been an ongoing challenge. This is not a new challenge, right? Yeah, this is ongoing, right? So that's why it's this initiative, right? I mean, Chris, Chris, he wants to add to that because this came from years of frustration. Yeah, Chris. Yeah. Thank you very much. Now I fully agree with the words that have already been said. And what we've seen in the past, at least what I've seen in the past six years, is the start of a hype of new technology entering into an ancient old industry and not being successfully implemented just because of, say, the importance of other priorities. And maybe also the result that people have been pushing or driving innovation in the past and not being able to get support from the right persons or from the right departments in the organizations. And I think it's all lessons learned what we have shown now, at least from myself, but also for Subra, in my view, how things could be done better with the approach that I was taking at this point in time. So, well, as a member of the advisory board, I fully support this movement. And Subra has already mentioned it. We need more people in the industry with the same talents and the same vision to make it happen. So that's thanks, please. That's excellent. Kelly, do you want to add something because Kelly is part of my more operations team. She's been a passionate leader in a lot of things, as well as giving a lot of her time to contribute to make things are presentable. Yeah, Kelly. Hey, hi. Hi, everyone. Good evening. Well, I think this is a huge movement, and it's not going to happen overnight, but we really, really hope that everyone is in line, have the same frequency as us, and we will solve the problem bit by bit because this trade issue is a huge problem and has been existing for so long. But this movement is really important to get things right, especially for the SMEs. And I dealt with some of these traders. I know their pain and the kind of help that they need, and I hope Total can really fix it. Over to you, Subra. Thanks, Kelly. Excellent. I see you also had some point. Tom, do you want to, do you have any view? Yeah. Tom Patton, by the way. Tom, are you still there? No, maybe you have to leave. Yeah, I think he left. He was on the call, but he had to leave. Drop the message. No problem. This is from Elijah. How is your work grouped? Hold on, gee. Hold on. Yeah, Elijah, it's a good question. Andrew, let me look at it. So how is your work group reaching out to the unbanked, uneducated? They could become a good local pressure group to affect the needed policies. Absolutely the most critical thing if you want to achieve something big, right? That's why I look at the DFIs. For example, Michael Aurey, who's a member of the board, he and I work very closely on how do we actually take this vision to the political leaders in the countries who actually can make it happen? So we need to work with them in to look at the problems localized. At the same time, we need to look at the big picture. And it's only beginning. I don't have a specific actionable answer, but I can just assure you that we are not, we are very much, we are very much cognizant to that need. There is another question from my friend Danilo from the USA. He's playing board with Africa and Mozambique as well. He's asking, how do we want representations of a question? What is taught as a approach to markets for the stiffing regulatory frameworks such as Mozambique? Have you worked in similar contexts to facilitate necessary updates to legislation and regulation? Some sensitive points, in a way. Great question. So I will definitely want to find out about what is Mozambique specific issues, but I can imagine that some of these problems are not just specific to Mozambique, right? Even if you look at a more modern global economy like the Emirates, there's requirements on people being, keeping the data within their own geography, physical geography, that limits a whole bunch of, take an option. So some of these things will have to be answered working through the multilateral bodies, but often also working with the central banks. One of the approaches is, at least for me and Toda, is to look at how do we engage at a local level. Coming from WTO, coming from IMF, coming from World Bank, it takes a lot of time to make the needle move. But you come from a local DFI local thing where you can actually be able to reach out to the central banker who decides the regulation. Let's say this actually makes sense to your local economy to liberalize a little bit. And what do you need to look at for you to liberalize, right? And that's where democracy is to me. I don't want to do the political discussion, but democracy is actually helped when they need to get their values or the policies approved by the public. When you need to sell something, you need to let people understand the results of it. No system is perfect, but localizing it helps in a democratic environment. With that, I will start without creating more controversy. Thank you. Chris, you spoke to Ripen. Yeah, that's good. Any other comments, questions? To me, the most important job of building an organization with Toda's vision is to be listening all the time. So I don't want to be the one talking most of the time. I want to be listening. So I think we can follow on Ripen's points, right? So for concrete results, you need adoption in larger, you need identity tokens, payment, there's a whole complex world, right? So how do we make... Yeah, so this is a challenge, Ripen. I mean, you know, I worry about boiling ocean problem, right? Yes. When you want to be everywhere, you're trying to boil the ocean, you'll never get there. So probably the biggest focus is going to be on the smaller problems on getting the finances, again, the traditional mechanism. 12 months down the line, if you ask me, you say, Subhari, you actually missed the boat on revolutionizing using the whole new payment mechanism, but the cryptocurrencies and everything else are probably accepted. But right now I'm looking at people like trade flow capital. To me, it's a real-life example. Somebody has been running a non-banking financial institution to finance high six-digit, low seven-digit trades, and they are doing it on the currently printed currencies. And if we help most of them, I'll be great, but I'm more than happy to correct myself in 12 months time saying, Subhari, Ripen, we should have moved faster than something else. Good points by Vipin here in the chat. The way to avoid the problem of boiling the ocean is to look the best practices in identity. There's also another good point here. Yeah, exactly. So totally, Ripen, totally like anything else, do not want to assume that trade is new to the world. We probably will spend as an organization to learn as well as learn very actively from people who come on the board as advisors. So people like you would always be the ones who would actually make a difference. That's a handism, Dom. Hello, thank you. Quick question from my naivety and perhaps my new coming to the blockchain world, specifically that. What's your, how do you dovetail into in that and the governance and standardization that they're setting? And there was a call last Thursday that gave the floor to many nations and their leaders around compliance and governance and regs around blockchain and bringing some sort of maybe not normality, but the ability to have that interoperability between all the different private and eventually public blockchains that will underpin hopefully society in a better way. Dom, I'll answer this at a personal level, right? Because the beautiful thing about the team that we have so far in total, we already have very healthy discussions on everything we talk about. So we don't always agree on anything. So she's really beautiful, right? That's how we evolve into active health and discussion. My view is there's going to be a mother of all networks or I would even go to the level of calling a mother of all centralized database. Everybody has to go back into. I used to argue from coming from the old school, you know, I learned programming in the 80s. So you should have know how over the commercial programming, not the Hattanese. To me, the central repository of a reliable watchdog or doorkeeper is important. If there is a network or network that has multiple networks that has to be placed where everybody can go and verify this document is true. And it cannot be sent to a million computers in the world and expect nobody to take ownership of it. Commercial world will have its own requirements on somebody signing up. Why is the International Chamber of Commerce today? Are chambers of commerce a general available? They can certify, for example, for a trader a basic document to say origin, certificate of origin. The certificate of origin is a critical document and that are issued by chambers of commerce. You can simply put it in blockchain. There has to be some authority who will say, yes, I gave that certificate. I, Julian Gardner and I, Subhashankar did that based on this. So the network or networks will depend on one centralized reliable watchdog. And people don't like watchdog in today's world because they think that watchdog's role is bad. Regulation is bad. So that's my personal opinion, but total will not be just bound to my personal opinion. Total will be doing what is right for the community with everybody's involvement in the community. Sure. And total's involvement or partnership with INATPA, is that something that's active or being thought about or... Yeah, please comment. It's not active. We are definitely open to it. I'm happy to connect. Just remember, total is about two and a half months old. We are two and a half months with about seven people, probably about two of us trying to work full time, the rest of the five or part time, right? Excellent. Onwards and upwards and to a beautiful horizon. Yeah, I'm sending my email address here. So shoot out, even if you don't bother to register on the website, just send an email to a total of state. So I'll make sure that we communicate. Yeah. So, look, I'm not directly involved with INATPA. We are members of INATPA, but from the ability to bring everything together and it all being underpinned by X, a technology, whether it be blockchain, something else, something more forward, specifically blockchain is that's what I'm of interest to me. But INATPA is definitely a great forum and a great platform and springboard for you guys, I believe, to really accelerate that message and that vision to as you described it, the utopian position. The utopian is always seen as unrealistic, but I hope we'll be realistic. Bye bye, Dom. I hear you. I want to connect with you. If you can drop me a line of notes, I will want to make sure I'll follow the video. Great to have you with us. Maybe, Dom, I love your family name. Sounds very familiar to me. Too bad if you cannot speak my native language, Dom. But we can also speak in Italian, quietly. There are no problems. You see, it's something I'm going to come to the world again. Anyway, it's a nice one here. Nirvana utopia is always just over the horizon. Don't know much about Nirvana, actually. To me, Nirvana sounds like a rock, man. Okay. Let's talk philosophy another time. We have a three-minute time. Julian, you want to say anything to the controller? I think that was great. Thank you. I think, yeah, Dom and everyone's saying upwards and onwards. Onwards and upwards, right? Onwards and upwards, yeah. You are still a relatively new organization, right, which is great. Lots of energy, lots of excitement, and obviously collaboration is key. And it's great to have you in the community, right? And I think we, as Hyperledger, we're looking at the tech, right? And obviously, the blockchain, which I think is really just a component of what you're looking at, right? Yep. I'm going to be very critical about it. Don't take me wrong when I talk about technology. I don't want people to think that blockchain is the beginning and end of it, but blockchain will always be the cornerstone of it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, technology has no purposes. It has some kind of societal business outcome, right? And it's an extra multiple technologies as well, right? AI and many other technologies. And I think that's been covered a lot of things that I think are key, identity, and obviously interoperability, some of the things that we're working on. But I think it's a moving challenge and opportunity, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's so many topics. Okay, you've never just added, right? It's not only a moving challenge and opportunity, it is also a duty. This is part of my gray hair. I mean, we are not doing far, but exactly. It's just leaving something behind. It would be good to sort these things out, exactly. And at the same time, maybe. I'll just bear the past and I'll burn some of the new bushes before we let other people bear the past. Sorry, Jules-Brahe, I don't have people I have to leave for another meeting. Thank you very much for participating and the feedback we obtained. So I look forward to the near future. Chris, thank you everybody. Thanks for being with us. By the way, Chris, it was nice to see you. Thank you, Chris. So guys, Julien. Hi, Julien and Subrahe. It was a great meeting. I firmly wanted this one to happen today. First, because I'm involved, we told us in the very start, Subrahe and I, we talked on a constant basis. We became acquainted a long time ago. So it was like my intention to close 2021 for this introduction of TOTA, what we have been doing recently, what we are going to do next year. So it was good to have you all here to close the year. It was a really great meeting today. I hope to see you again in 2022. We look forward to that. Yeah. I wish you all a very Merry Christmas. Enjoy the Christmas time and see you next year. Thank you. Happy New Year, everybody. Happy New Year, everybody. Happy New Year. Bye, Christmas. See you. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Best wishes from Istanbul. Bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Thank you. Bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Oh, ciao. Bye.